00:00we're all living I know in challenging
00:01times but you're actually living in the
00:03best time to be alive the opportunities
00:05that are going to happen in the next 12
00:07to 13 years for people who take care of
00:09themselves are beyond their wildest
00:11imagination because we're at the base of
00:13that explosive geometric curve right now
00:16and it's pretty darn
00:22exciting welcome to the uh Mark and Ben
00:25podcast and today we have a super
00:27special guest um the world famous Tony
00:30Robbins who is um in in my view having
00:34uh read a lot of his stuff and taken his
00:37seminar probably you know one of the
00:39great psychologists of the last 50 years
00:42um and uh he's done just incredible work
00:44and helped so many people and he is kind
00:48of the person the number one person that
00:51you call if you need to you know kind of
00:54improve your performance or or get your
00:56head together whether you're a president
00:57or a great athlete or anything so it's a
01:00tremendous privilege to have him here
01:02and with us also is the head of our bof
01:06fund Dr VJ pondi who um will be very
01:10helpful as Tony's last book is a book
01:13called life force which is h a book all
01:15about regenerative medicine and um how
01:18to basically live your best healthiest
01:22life with the uh best health span
01:24possible so with that welcome Tony well
01:28thank you thank you for a ni's
01:30introduction as I said before we get on
01:32you guys are the legends here I'm so
01:34grateful to have an opportunity to visit
01:35with you what you've created around the
01:37world the kinds of companies you guys
01:39have helped make happen and support uh
01:41is super inspiring so thanks for having
01:43me on yeah no absolutely um so want to
01:47start just a little with um you know you
01:49have this great story that kind of led
01:51to your book or and led to your kind of
01:54work in the field of Health um where you
01:57had a snowboarding accident um which is
02:00a lot you know kind of following you
02:02over the years a lot of where you know
02:05kind of some of your best work comes
02:07from is your worst moment so maybe you
02:10you could talk a little bit about that
02:11and how that how that happened here well
02:13sure I've always been involved in health
02:15uh you know I'm kind of a biohacker
02:17myself I have to be I was followed for
02:19three and a half years by a group that
02:20worked with Tom Brady and a lot of the
02:22greater sports teams and they were
02:23tracking my body and you know I do these
02:25events that are four to seven days and
02:27I've got 15,000 people in a stadium and
02:30I got to hold the person at the top for
02:3212 hours not a 2hour movie uh that
02:35somebody spent $300 million to make so
02:36it's just me so the amount of energy
02:39running around the building going up
02:41engaging people uh is amazing I've
02:43burned 11,300 calories on average
02:45believe it or not every single time on a
02:47single day I jump a thousand times I
02:49weigh 290 Pounds so every time you come
02:52down your body hits four times the body
02:54weight so imagine a million jumps you
02:56know a million pounds of pressure I
02:58should say a thousand times a thousand
03:00happens in a day so as a result of all
03:01that I'm always looking for
03:02breakthroughs but I'm also a little
03:04crazy and I was following one day a
03:0520-year-old snowboarder down the hill
03:08and I did not have their moves and I
03:10discovered that the hard way and I woke
03:12up having taken a jump and I thought I
03:14broke my neck I tore my rotator cuff
03:16severely and the nerve pain from that if
03:18you've ever experienced it's pretty
03:19brutal so you know I own pieces of
03:21several sports teams fortunately and we
03:23have some of the best doctors in the
03:24world both the Dodgers and the Warriors
03:27and so it's like okay um what should I
03:29do Doc and every single one of them
03:30surgery surgery and they're like okay
03:32what's the prognosis well between three
03:35and six months of rehab and it can
03:36happen again and I said what about stem
03:39cells because you know I've been reading
03:40about stem cells and hearing about them
03:41like everyone else and they said oh no
03:44no it's worthless you know it's not
03:45going to do anything for you uh but for
03:47me it was like you know just like
03:49investing you know I I want to see where
03:51the least amount of risk or the greatest
03:53possible reward where the asymmetrical
03:54risk reward here and I started asking
03:56around I asked a dear friend of mine
03:57Peter dandz who I think you guys may
03:59know know yeah Peter's dear friend and
04:01partner and I said who's the best in the
04:03world in this area you you've got to
04:04know him and he said I do his name is
04:06Bob Harari he'll introduce you and it's
04:07was kind of like saying I want to learn
04:08about basketball so I'll introduce you
04:10my friend LeBron James you know Bob's
04:13like you know one of the founders of
04:14what stem cells have done for people
04:16long story short he said they're right
04:18if you use your own stem cells you're
04:19over the age of 40 I'm not going to see
04:22much but if you go down to Panama or
04:24various other places he told me I could
04:26go and you get four day old stem cells
04:28that come from the core that's normally
04:30thrown away he said I think you'll see a
04:32transformation and he said look you look
04:34a risk reward if it doesn't work and you
04:36always go to the surgery so long story
04:38shortened I went down four days several
04:41injections first day was just really
04:43tired second day I woke up and I had
04:46spinal stenosis as well for example for
04:4814 years no pain in my spine for the
04:51first time in 14 years shoulder feeling
04:54perfect you know three months later the
04:56MRI there's absolutely nothing wrong
04:57I've never done anything since so I got
04:59invited by the pope believe it or not
05:01the pope does the biggest you know uh
05:03conference every two years on
05:05understanding these new cellular
05:07medicines because it's no longer fetal
05:09tissue obviously no one's doing that and
05:11so I was invited to be a cleanup speaker
05:14for four days the best experts in the
05:16world and I said I'm coming I'm coming
05:18for all four days and I met people that
05:20were sent home to die and who are
05:22totally healthy today and got to hear
05:24all of these breakthroughs and I said
05:26how come the world doesn't know about it
05:27and then I been out the studies of show
05:29the amount of time it takes for a
05:31breakthrough to happen to get your a
05:32clinician on average is 27 years it's
05:36just crazy and I said Dr VJ nodding his
05:38head he knows obviously works with you
05:41instead of the traditional approach so I
05:43said I want to get that out but I want
05:44it not to be my opinions like my
05:46financial books I interview the best in
05:48the world and find out what they're
05:50saying not the average person because
05:52the average doctor even great ones were
05:53saying this is a waste of my time and
05:55they were dead wrong so this book is
05:57filled it's 700 pages es of the very
06:00best to increase your energy your
06:02strength and your longevity from the
06:04best experts in the world wow and kind
06:06of you you kind of slept in you went to
06:09Panama um to get that treatment and so
06:13kind of what what what are the factors
06:15in our uh system that kind of make that
06:18only available in Panama and you have to
06:20do this medical tourism in order to get
06:23I mean it's kind of weird well I have to
06:25leave America and go to Panama to get
06:27healthy that seems um maybe you should
06:29ask Dr VJ more about that he and I would
06:32probably agree the FDA you know they
06:34have a tough job right really tough job
06:35and these are you know new breakthroughs
06:38for them and it takes a long time for
06:39them to approve something but you know
06:41there are several idn I have a company
06:43here in the US that people go to called
06:45Fountain life where they do all their
06:46Diagnostics and you know saves a lot of
06:49lives because you discover within a few
06:51minutes you know something someone
06:52didn't know was going on in their body
06:53they had no sense of um and but while
06:56they're there we also gotten some idn to
06:58do some of those studies with stem cells
07:00here in the country so you can get those
07:02exceptions but you got to know where
07:04they are and you got to be part of a
07:05study to do it yeah and and VJ like what
07:09kind of what led to that you know
07:10particularly with stem cell research
07:12yeah I mean stem cell research is a part
07:14of the larger regenerative medicine
07:16where people are first just try to
07:18understand biology because it's kind of
07:20amazing to think about even like how a
07:21human being gets created it sums from
07:24these original cells that become all
07:26different types of cells and you combine
07:28that with the fact that you know when we
07:30think about disease we think of disease
07:32as something bad happening to us but a
07:34lot of that stuff is exacerbated with
07:35age and that age itself is like so much
07:39of the challenge that we get cancer and
07:41Alzheimer's and type two diabetes with
07:43such greater uh incidents as you get
07:45older so aging itself is so much of the
07:49problem and I think you combine these
07:50two things together you get cells that
07:51are young that don't have these sort of
07:54the garbage that sort of adds up as time
07:56goes on uh really amazing things are
07:58possible things that sound like
08:00miraculous or like science fiction but
08:02just even going from like sperm and egg
08:04to a baby is kind of miraculous if you
08:06think about it miracles happen all the
08:09time and now the question is how can we
08:11harness the miraculous biology that's
08:13already happening and you know athletes
08:15are usually the first people to do this
08:17because they're like biohackers right so
08:19my clients like Christiano Ronaldo he
08:21turned things around in six weeks that
08:22would have taken six months and he did
08:24it with stem cells or you know Jack
08:26Nicholas I don't know a few years ago
08:27Jack was telling me he could literally I
08:29was four or five years ago couldn't play
08:31golf couldn't play tennis told us the
08:33rest you know there's just that's how he
08:34has to adjust his life and he you know
08:37he did stem cells and he's perfect molon
08:39plays tennis plays golf has a great time
08:41so people just need to know that this is
08:43really possible and and you know the FDA
08:45to their credit they're working hard in
08:47evaluating things and moving I mean stem
08:49cells have been involved in so many
08:50studies now as Dr VJ knows there's zero
08:52question in terms of their value but
08:54it's been the Wild West in the US people
08:56get out and promote things and say
08:58things that are totally insane uh and
09:00there were like one or two cases and
09:01that's all it takes and the media goes
09:03crazy as they probably should to try to
09:06warn people but then it all gets thrown
09:07out with the baby with the bath water I
09:08mean there was somebody who was doing
09:10injections of stem cells and other
09:12things in people's eyes and somebody
09:13went blind I mean it's insane that's not
09:15something you do in a trillion years um
09:18so you have to find the right sources
09:20and that's one of the reasons that we
09:21co-founded you know Fountain life with
09:23Dr Bob perer because one of the greatest
09:25experts in the field who really found
09:27some of the initial breakthroughs that
09:28really under made us understand what
09:29stem cells are and how they work but
09:32it's still really unique and I still uh
09:35you know some of the best places to go
09:36if someone's listening really is like a
09:37group like RMI it's called down in Costa
09:40Rica some of the most sophisticated and
09:42the best but I went to Panama originally
09:43and that's literally all it took I mean
09:46it's it's I I have a dear dear friend we
09:48own a piece of sports team together I
09:50won't mention his name because I want to
09:51tease him about it too much but he'll
09:53probably hear this and uh I was thinking
09:56you got to go do stem cells and he's
09:57like same doctors going to him rotator
09:59cuff issue he's a little bit older than
10:01I am and they said no no no it's not
10:03going to work I said they told me the
10:04same thing look what's happened to me
10:06and then you know but he's surrounded by
10:08them right you know so he went into the
10:09surgery and he's had two surgeries since
10:11then he's started over again did another
10:13rehab that lasted four and a half months
10:15four days from me I mean it's like
10:17that's what I saying Dr VJ it sounds
10:19absurd doesn't it sounds impossible but
10:21but it happens all the time I mean Dr
10:23David Sinclair as you're familiar with
10:25probably Dr VJ he's probably one of the
10:27greatest experts in this area and as he
10:28said aging is the real disease as you
10:31age everything else accelerates
10:32everything starts to break down and part
10:34of that is stem cell exhaustion and the
10:36communication that those stem cells
10:38provide that's why exosomes are now a
10:40really valuable tool as well when used
10:42properly well and you actually point to
10:44like one of the key things that we think
10:45about Innovation being innovation in
10:47science or maybe the drug but Innovation
10:49the regulatory side could be perhaps the
10:52most impactful way that we could help
10:54patients yes and what do you think the
10:55Innovations on the regulatory side are
11:00you know in terms of uh you know the
11:02current process and where it could go
11:04yeah I think the the challenge is like
11:05to put your feet and and their shoes
11:08it's actually a really hard thing to do
11:10because you're you're you're the last
11:11line of things but Parvin might be sort
11:13of reframing how you think about things
11:15and we saw this sort of in the Arc of
11:17how regulation came to be that we had
11:19this lamide crisis which was this
11:21horrific thing that you know kids were
11:23being born malformed and so the FDA gets
11:26created um ironically nothing that the
11:29FDA doesn't would have helped the fimi
11:31crisis because you don't test on
11:33pregnant women and so on but you know
11:34there's a lot of other things that
11:35perhaps did really help patients but
11:38then perhaps the pendulum swung too far
11:40and then you get to the HIV crisis where
11:43people are dying of AIDS and they're
11:44just trying to get drugs and their
11:46options are die now or die later or try
11:49the drug and maybe survive and actually
11:51the pendulum went the other way to
11:53realize that there was an opportunity
11:55for really um helping patients by
11:58getting them the drug
11:59and I think that's part of is the
12:01realization that some of these are
12:02questions of science but some of these
12:04are questions of policy like what how do
12:06we want to think about things and that's
12:08that's a different type of problem
12:09that's a policy problem not a science
12:11problem yeah and actually one of the
12:13things Tony talks about in the book is
12:15the process is uh safety first and then
12:21efficacy and then efficacy at scale and
12:25how do you think about that VJ like is
12:27that necessary for the FDA to show
12:31efficacy or is there a more efficient
12:33way yeah so you bring up a great Point
12:35here because yeah so testing for
12:37toxicity that's clearly important and
12:40and that's established but actually the
12:42thing that a lot of people forget is
12:43that after the FDA insurance companies
12:46will also determine whether the drug is
12:48really worth it that's their business
12:50and there's a real Marketplace for that
12:52and if it's if it's improved uh then
12:55they they'll pay for it and so since
12:56that's happening anyways it's
12:57interesting to think about really
12:59harnessing that especially since there's
13:01things that some people might think are
13:03crazy like if you had a drug that was as
13:05good as the best drug but cheaper that
13:08still can't get um that won't go by the
13:11FDA because they actually has to be
13:13better than the last drug even if it's
13:15not better scientifically but it's
13:16better in other ways and so you know if
13:19you leave that to the payers the payers
13:20are like hell yeah I would love to have
13:22a drug that's 10 times cheaper that
13:23would be something where we could get it
13:24to more patients we could do so much
13:26more with it um those are things that
13:29really you only think about when you're
13:30think about from a market perspective
13:32not and and from the fact that they're
13:34really the customers using this and I
13:36think that change of framing could
13:38actually have a huge impact on on how
13:39patients get drugs there's also
13:42companies like in silico that you know
13:43are using Ai and trying to reinvent
13:46basically how drugs come to the market
13:48in the tempo where what took 5,000
13:50people they can do with 50 and you know
13:52kind of like uh invido what it's done in
13:54its ability to forecast you know how
13:56they build a chip doing that and
13:58actually being able to predict what
13:59would happen in a study and so forth and
14:01they're very excited about what they
14:03think they can do in this area and
14:04they're not the only one they're just
14:06one of the one of the leaders in the
14:07field right now so the ability to get
14:09the right drugs to the right people
14:11Precision medicine also right
14:13Rejuvenation yes but it's Precision what
14:15does your body need what's the right
14:17amounts and you know with some of the
14:19information that we have from the human
14:20genome now some of that is actually
14:22starting to become usable for us it's
14:24been such a mass amount of information
14:25now the specificity is starting to come
14:27about and then you things like crisper
14:29that can enter in to actually start
14:31editing it all so we're we're you you're
14:33living we're all living I know in
14:35challenging times but you're actually
14:36living in the best time to be alive we
14:38actually have the least amount of
14:39violence in the world if you measure it
14:41that's ever been no one would know that
14:43if you watch your television because you
14:44know listen the media is good people
14:46their job though is to make money for
14:48their shareholders and we all are wired
14:51with a negative bias so they know if it
14:53bleeds it leads and so now anything in
14:55the world looks horrible we get to hear
14:56about it and we're also just also in a
14:59season that happens of every 20 years so
15:00the season changes and people are much
15:02more fearful but in spite of all that
15:05the opportunities that are going to
15:06happen in the next 12 to 13 years for
15:09people who take care of themselves are
15:11beyond the their wildest imagination
15:13because we're at the base of that
15:14explosive geometric curve right now and
15:18exciting yeah Mark actually uh you know
15:21you just wrote the Techno Optimus
15:24Manifesto where you talk about the
15:27possibility for a brighter future
15:29and you know kind of against the like
15:31super pessimistic attitude how how do
15:34you think about the future and what the
15:36next 10 15 years will be like well look
15:39I I mean look I agree with Tony I mean
15:41like if you look at the substance of
15:42what's Happening there's a lot to be
15:44optimistic about I mean look I will say
15:45though there are a lot of forces at play
15:46in the world that want to keep these
15:48things from happening and there's a lot
15:49of a lot of repression that's taking
15:50place there's a lot of um you know
15:52people trying to prevent change um and
15:54so you know there is a pretty active
15:55campaign in the other direction um and
15:57you know that that campaign has taken
15:58hold of a lot of universities a lot of
16:00government agencies um you know a lot of
16:01the a lot of the power structure the
16:03people who get to decide whether things
16:04are legal um the Press you know Tony
16:06Tony mentioned and so um yeah I mean
16:09like you know the future is what we make
16:10it right it's it's it's not inevitable
16:12like it has to be it has to be will into
16:14being and people have to decide what
16:15they want actually that gets to um an
16:19interesting kind of change that's
16:21happened in science over the last you
16:24know kind of the way science works over
16:25the last 50 years has really changed in
16:28universities and we have the replication
16:30crisis and in various things and one of
16:32the things you know kind of as a student
16:34of Tony that I've noticed is you know
16:36he's sort of a scientist from the
16:40previous era from the kind of Einstein
16:42Heisenberg you know that era where it's
16:45a lot of I'm gonna do this experiment on
16:48myself and then I'm gonna try it in
16:51reality and you know kind of a very
16:54pragmatic way of going about things as
16:57opposed to the goal being published ing
16:58a paper or you know winning a prize or
17:01getting tenure and so forth so Mark
17:03maybe you could talk about like how
17:05science has changed in the current
17:07crisis we have in science yeah look I
17:09mean there's you know this is a very
17:10very deep topic we could spend a lot a
17:12lot of time on I mean look you know like
17:14science emerged you know 500 years ago
17:16out of out of uh out of actually
17:17originally out of religion studying the
17:19universe you know to glory god and then
17:21over time it you know became sort of
17:22intertwined with the Enlightenment and
17:24and rationalism and the scientific
17:25methods started to uh to get developed
17:27but you know really if if you trace
17:29scientific innovation discoveries you
17:31know from you know around 500 years ago
17:33to basically around World War II um you
17:35know it was a it was a very elite um you
17:39know activity it was it was you know it
17:41was a lot of people experimenting on
17:42themselves um you know you know it's
17:45like the archetypal you know scientist
17:46in the 1700s was Ben Franklin you know
17:49where it was like Ben Franklin himself
17:50out in the rainstorm with a kite right
17:52trying to trying to figure out lightning
17:54um and you know Thomas Jefferson
17:56considered himself a scientist you know
17:57kind of in a spare time and so forth and
17:59and you know Einstein was famously a
18:00patent patent clerk right you know he
18:02wasn't a professor anywhere at the time
18:05relativity um and then basically after
18:07World War II science became
18:09institutionalized and you know good news
18:11bad news we built up these massive you
18:13know research universities this Federal
18:15funding uh for Science and you know
18:17certainly we got some you know big waves
18:19of of science technology out of that we
18:21got you know we got nuclear power we got
18:23you know the computer chip um you know
18:25we got the internet and so forth so you
18:27know we we got certain expect of Biotech
18:29out of that uh but you know over the
18:31last 30 years I mean I I think you just
18:32kind of see in plain sight with the
18:33replication crisis that institutional
18:35science you know seems broken at some
18:37fundamental level like a very large
18:38percentage of the studies in the last 50
18:40years don't replicate they're they're
18:41basically fake results um and so now we
18:44have we have this sort of institutional
18:45process you know we saw it play out
18:47during covid in in a not very successful
18:49way you know we're we're seeing you know
18:52kind of universities you know kind of
18:53torturing themselves in plain sight you
18:55know kind of these days um and so you
18:57know there there there is this sense of
18:58like in a lot of fields uh you know a
19:01much higher level of stagnation a much
19:03lower level of breakthrough uh than I
19:05think that we would expect given all the
19:06money that's being poured into the
19:07system and I think you know more people
19:09are are starting to ask the question you
19:10know is this actually the system that's
19:12going to generate uh scientific results
19:13in the future I can tell you in my own
19:16world it is true I start with me and
19:18then a small number of people around me
19:19and then I start to scale it once I see
19:21it works you're absolutely right about
19:23that I recently about three years ago in
19:25the middle of covid uh some doctors some
19:27stand approach me because uh they had
19:30two of their doctors go to one of my six
19:32day programs I do called Date With
19:33Destiny and they were both clinically
19:35depressed and came back with no
19:37depression symptoms and friends and
19:39doctors around them like this is
19:40impossible this couldn't possibly be and
19:43and they got off all their drugs so
19:44anyway they called me and said you know
19:46what data do you have you know typical
19:47situation and I said well I said I've
19:50got millions of testimonials like
19:52hundred thousands of people have been
19:54through these various forms of programs
19:56I can give you no no no like like the
19:57data I said well I'm not a scientist and
19:59most people I'm interested in working
20:01with they're interested in results if
20:03they see results they're happy they I
20:04have money back guaranteed for what I do
20:06right it's pretty simple and they said
20:08well would you be willing to do a study
20:09on depression because during covid as
20:11you know depression went through the
20:12roof it still is um suicides went
20:15through the roof overdoses went through
20:16the roof and I said I I love that that's
20:18an area that we're extremely effective
20:20in and they said well uh I asked him
20:23what will you measure against you know
20:24because I had no idea what are the
20:25metast studies show around depression
20:27and I couldn't believe it 60% of the
20:29people that go in according to meta
20:30studies for treatment of depression with
20:33drugs Andor therapy or both 60% makes
20:35zero Improvement 40% improve and The
20:38Meta study show on average they improve
20:4050% which means they're half as
20:42depressed as they were now some people
20:43do get well but it's a very small
20:45percentage of the people and I'm sure
20:47you saw the ssris in the cover of
20:49Newsweek last year they don't work and
20:51yet we still sell them for some reason
20:53um and so the bottom line is I said well
20:55you can almost get that result with a
20:56placebo they said yeah I said I I think
20:59we all Crush that but you do the study I
21:01said but what's the best study well you
21:03know that's your meta study what's the
21:04most effective thing you've ever seen
21:06and they said it was a study done at
21:07John's Hopkins about four and a half
21:09years ago where they take people for a
21:11month who were clinically depressed and
21:14they for a month gave them psilocybin
21:16right so magic mushrooms and cognitive
21:18therapy for a month I said well out of
21:20that you should have got some kind of
21:21change in their you know they said it
21:23was amazing it was the greatest result
21:25they've ever measured in the history of
21:26Psychiatry 50 4% of the people 6 weeks
21:29after the treatment had no symptoms of
21:31depression whatsoever I said okay well
21:33our Target is to do better than that but
21:35you're in charge why don't you model
21:37that same study use the same contrasting
21:39group is what they did the results were
21:41so amazing that they sent out blind the
21:44the stats to do different organizations
21:46because they're afraid they're going to
21:47get canceled 100% of the people that
21:50they put through this program after six
21:52weeks had zero expressions of depression
21:55better than that 177% of them had suici
21:58suicidal ideation not a single one had
21:59suicidal ideation afterwards they
22:01followed up 11 months later they're
22:03going to do 12 but they did 11 months
22:04because people were getting back from
22:06covid and they had all the stats on you
22:08know how people loneliness and all the
22:10things that are happening at home anyway
22:1271% decrease in negative emotions 11
22:15months later 52% increase in positive
22:18emotions loneliness through the floor
22:20the transformation is amazing it was
22:21written up in scientific journals just
22:23as you described right in the Journal of
22:25Psychiatry I thought boy people really
22:27be for us now not a single phone call no
22:31one's interested and they're still
22:32selling the drugs that don't work so
22:34part of it is institutionalization of
22:36the system we're actually doing a study
22:38right now Stanford want to do another
22:39one they're doing the largest behavioral
22:40study they've ever done 750 people not
22:43one month three months full year it's
22:45just finishing this month as last
22:47December it began and it's on quiet
22:49quitting and Loud quitting and
22:50engagement as you guys know when it
22:52comes to business engagement equals iida
22:55you the highest levels of Engagement
22:56highest levels iida and for your
22:58audience you know we look at they
22:59measure things as engaged disengaged and
23:02actively disengaged active disengage of
23:04the people that still work for you but
23:06are trying to harm your company and hate
23:07you and uh what's crazy is that's the
23:10sing in those four years of covid the
23:13largest droping engagement in the
23:14history of of their records the largest
23:17increase in actively disengaged the loud
23:20quitting people and uh the study they
23:22did with us I can only tell you what it
23:24was at six months they're going to
23:25announce it and publish it shortly at
23:26the 12- month mark but we quadrupled the
23:29engagement took what four years got rid
23:32of in six days did they sustain it I
23:35never saw them again and at the
23:36six-month Mark which is the last
23:38measurement I got to see had it
23:39increased another 50% beyond what it had
23:42because they had a shift in their
23:43psychology and their mindset you know I
23:46know you uh I think it I think it's you
23:48Ben maybe it was you Mark I can't
23:49remember but I get you guys mixed up in
23:51your quotes sometimes because I've read
23:52so many but I think one time I read you
23:53said the hardest part of being a CEO is
23:56really my own mindset you know your
23:58ability to get yourself to go through
24:00that's what I found I got 111 companies
24:02to push through the difficult times
24:04anybody can do Well when things are
24:05going your way or finding the right
24:06players that's not hard um I think you
24:09also talked about then dealing with
24:10those players and they feel entitled as
24:12well but the psychology change is
24:14everything and it's true for everyone so
24:16that's my obsession and we really want
24:18to make a difference because we're
24:19living in a world where most CEOs don't
24:20know what the hell to do I was at a
24:23fortune 400 conference and with Mark Ben
24:25a good friend of mine and they invited
24:26me in and um they were doing these
24:28interviews and they were asking people
24:30there how many of you have people
24:32working you know 5 days a
24:34week and uh and at the time less than
24:37this is six months ago less than 20% of
24:40the people raised their hand and these
24:42are Fortune you know 400 companies and
24:44it's say 500 companies I just I can't
24:45even believe it how many wish everybody
24:47was here five days a week 95% of them
24:49raised their hand right so I know there
24:51are jobs where you can be hybrid you
24:53know or be gone all the time certainly
24:55software things of that nature but we're
24:57dealing with issues that we've never
24:59dealt before in the history of business
25:00and obviously it's affecting Office
25:02Buildings and and local restaurants and
25:04everything else but helping people
25:06become more engaged to me is the only
25:08way they're going to be fulfilled
25:09because I'm sure you've read people are
25:10the most unhappy in their work that
25:12they've measured in 20 years even pre
25:14you know covid and they thought well
25:17they don't want to go back to work
25:18because you know I shouldn't have to do
25:20that I'm like being home now and now
25:21when they're home they feel isolated you
25:23know right right think is if I have it
25:25easier I'm going to be happier and you
25:27both know all three of you know you
25:28wouldn't be who you are you know that
25:30the effort is the reward that being able
25:32to push those things is what shapes you
25:34it's what makes you proud of who you are
25:35as a human this idea of self-esteem
25:38that's so overused with children it
25:39makes me crazy you don't get self-esteem
25:42because someone tells you you're good
25:44and you don't lose it because people
25:45tell you you're worthless someone tell
25:48you you're worthless your whole life and
25:49you go read between the lines I'm going
25:50to show you who I am or someone tell you
25:52you're beautiful your whole life and you
25:53don't believe it right what makes you
25:55have esteem for yourself is doing
25:57difficult things and our society
25:59unfortunately is not reminding people
26:01that we're here to give something we're
26:02not just here to get and most of our
26:04society is measuring what to get and
26:06that's making people so unhappy they
26:07don't understand that there's you'll
26:09never be happy when you don't have a
26:10meaning in your life more than yourself
26:12and when a focus is just on your own
26:14sense of comfort yeah I me anybody can
26:16meet Comfort needs pretty easily yeah
26:19well and that gets into well I have a
26:21couple so many questions one the first
26:23is you know it's funny you said you're
26:25not a scientist but I think by Mark's
26:28definition of of original scientists
26:30you're absolutely a scientist and it
26:33seems like really unfortunate in the
26:35current system that here you are with
26:39these amazing results which should be
26:42what we're teaching uh undergraduate
26:45psychology students and so forth it
26:47should be what the you know average
26:50person when they go to see a
26:52psychiatrist gets and instead we're
26:54getting sris that don't work and you
26:57ever think about um and and you have
27:00your own lane and you get it to the
27:02people through your seminars and so
27:03forth but you know do you ever think
27:07about like is there a way to to merge
27:10those channels or or to kind of
27:13um you know overcome this just like
27:16weirdness where we have one method that
27:19you've invented that gets amazing
27:20results we have this whole other school
27:23of thought um based on psychologists
27:26that were wrong about a lot you know
27:28like the in the history of psychology
27:30you know some of the heroes were just
27:32wrong like Freud was wrong about a
27:34tremendous amount of things
27:36uh I guess how do how do you think about
27:40that because you know you have such a
27:41big mission to kind of improve people's
27:43lives I want to reach as many people as
27:46I can so truthfully these journals and
27:48people of that nature don't reach a lot
27:50of people I mean yeah my seminars thanks
27:52to covid you know when everything got
27:53shut down I was used to doing stadiums
27:55so if you can imagine I get a call from
27:57the governor of California who I don't
27:59share necessarily values with 100% but
28:01I'm friendly with and he says um sorry
28:03to let you know uh the stadium that you
28:06had there for 15,000 people you can only
28:08put 100 people in there and I like what
28:10so I was like screw this we're we'll go
28:12to Vegas they'll never shut down Vegas
28:14we moved all the people to Vegas yeah
28:16five days before they shut down Vegas I
28:19we're going to Texas I know the governor
28:21there he's never going to bend same
28:23thing about a week out he bends I'll do
28:25movie theaters we'll do a movie theaters
28:27only 10 people each that's what they'll
28:29allow you to do they'll L be you know
28:301,200 movie theaters they'll go locally
28:33they'll have a big screen great so I
28:34finally just they cut that out so I
28:36finally built a studio and now we do our
28:39Live Events with 15,000 people but we do
28:41hybrid events also and I started doing
28:43events then where all of a sudden my
28:4415,000 person event was done in people's
28:46homes I built 20 foot high LED screens
28:49about a 25,000 foot Place built it all
28:52around me brought in made some new
28:54software technology so people could
28:56shake their phone instead of Cl in you
28:58know it's got electric signal if one
28:59claps you don't hear it when 20,000
29:01people clap it's like thunder you know I
29:04I went to you know to our friends over
29:06there at zoom and got them to expand the
29:09volume from a thousand people to 25,000
29:11and all of a sudden we started growing
29:13so now I've the large last large seminar
29:15I did last year was 1.8 million people
29:18for six days so it's like just go around
29:21it the other way is I think by hitting
29:24businesses and I've always said I want
29:26to talk to whoever general public I'll
29:28build it they'll come but I'm going to
29:29start directing businesses now because
29:31now that I have this way to to do things
29:33asynchron and synchronal but anywhere in
29:35the world uh I think it's a new way to
29:38do this and that's why I supported this
29:39study because I think we can start to
29:41affect people's psychology emotion and
29:43health by hitting the bottom line and
29:46that'll bring those resources to people
29:47and companies so I think that's another
29:49Avenue that we're g to we're not think
29:51we're now we're going for to have an
29:54impact we think about what Tony does
29:56actually maybe you're not a scientist
29:58you might be way more impactful than
30:00that maybe you're like a psychological
30:02engineer you know because you're you're
30:04like you're you're really wanting to
30:05solve a problem not just like study
30:07something write it up and then move on
30:10you know and like an engineer will
30:12iterate will study will be empirical we
30:15learn from Theory and learn from all the
30:17other stuff but we really actually care
30:19about working and whether it works or
30:22not is I think the only thing you really
30:23care about right you don't care about
30:24Awards or and and what I care about is
30:27people I'm not the only one I mean
30:29that's like there I'm not saying I got
30:30all the answers the way I wrote my
30:32financial books the R I wrote this book
30:34this book you know 150 of the best
30:36regenerative scientists in the world
30:37Nobel laurates the best doctors in the
30:40world that's who I go to to get the
30:41answers and then now I know them oh
30:43you're so smart I'm not smart they're
30:44smart I'm just smart enough to go to
30:46them same thing in the financial area
30:48you know Ray do Carl icon you know Paul
30:50tutor Jones these all guys that became
30:52my friends over the years because I went
30:54and took what they did and made it
30:55simple enough that the general popul
30:57ation can use it my billionaire clients
30:59found it valuable but so did you know
31:01the average person getting started so to
31:03me it's a modeling process and an
31:05iteration process modeling what already
31:07works and then figureing out how to go
31:08to a different level but I don't have to
31:10reinvent the wheel but I have been doing
31:12what I've been doing now this will be my
31:1447th year coming up you can clearly see
31:16I started at three of course
31:19and but uh you know if at this point I
31:21could be an idiot I'd have to see there
31:23are patterns right that's what makes all
31:24of us good at what we do it's pattern
31:26recognition pattern utilization and then
31:28if you're good enough pattern creation
31:30maybe you play someone else's music
31:32initially you learn the patterns you
31:34learn how to use them but eventually you
31:36can build on top of the shoulders of the
31:37people that you've learned from and I
31:39think that's what we all want to be but
31:41also that's what we want our children to
31:42be from us right to have a choice to
31:44have choices we never had before and I
31:47think that's threatened a little bit by
31:48some of the psychology that's currently
31:50in the culture but I'm not worried
31:52because history is you know I always
31:54think of history in Cycles right it's
31:55like Good Times creates weak people you
31:57always see it you see it Roman history
31:59Greek history Good Times weak people
32:01weak people bad times bad times create
32:04strong people strong people create great
32:05times think of a great generation born
32:07in 1910 and they come of age you know at
32:111929 and it's like they thought they're
32:14going to party like everybody else they
32:16were generation was looked down on like
32:17Millennials were by older Generations or
32:19Z generation is now they were looked
32:21down on they didn't they got everything
32:23so easily they didn't go through World
32:24War I they didn't have to fight they had
32:26radio on television and all of a sudden
32:28boom depression it toughened them up
32:31they had to change to survive and then
32:33oh by the way by the time they heard 29
32:361939 it's World War II and they go to
32:39war that looks like look like we're
32:41going to lose the Hitler was going to
32:42win those people came back strong and
32:46every every every single you know
32:49generation is tested the question are
32:50you tested in the early years the middle
32:52years the later years or The Late Late
32:54years of your life because if you study
32:56history you patterns are consistent so I
32:58I study history I study patterns and
33:01humans have so many patterns you're not
33:02angry all the time you don't know very
33:03good all the time you don't do anything
33:05all the time there's certain patterns
33:07that make you that way and you are not
33:09your pattern and that's why I'm able to
33:10help people to change they don't have to
33:12change themselves this change the Habit
33:14they've been calling themselves that's
33:16really getting in the way definitely you
33:18you know you hit on um a thing uh that I
33:21want to ask Mark about so you know Tony
33:25mentioned uh you know things in the
33:27culture that are degenerative in
33:30particular you know we've got this big
33:32wave of everything from uh the what's
33:36good for the people is for them to not
33:38work so many hours or you know it's
33:42better to be uh you know a victim than
33:47you know an aggressor and this and that
33:48and the other and they're all kind of
33:52extremely destructive things for
33:54personal psychology and like how do you
33:58you know how do you look at kind of the
34:00waves of these political movements um
34:03and you know what's what's happening now
34:05you know when has it happened
34:06historically how do we get out of
34:08it yeah it's actually something it's
34:11actually something that you you go back
34:12to n talked about this like 140 years
34:15ago now basically it's it's it's claims
34:18to speak on behalf of the oppressed um
34:20are how a um sort of the the our sort of
34:22modern ruling class like stays in power
34:25um and so you know if if you want to run
34:27for office right like you know what's
34:29the message that you tell people do you
34:30you you know do you tell people you know
34:32you can take responsibility for your own
34:33lives and you can achieve great things
34:34or do you tell people you're a victim um
34:37and you know anything bad that's
34:38happening to you is not your fault and
34:39it doesn't matter what you do you'll
34:41never be able to succeed and the system
34:42is rigged against you and the system is
34:44oppressive and you know people of other
34:46you know colors and ethnicities hate you
34:48right and are trying to keep you down um
34:51and I often use the term demoralization
34:52campaign right like you you you
34:54basically to like you know basically win
34:56office you basically sell a
34:57demoralization story and then of course
34:59you you promis that of course as the
35:00leader you're going to help these poor
35:01oppressed people kind of overcome that
35:03and then that you know that's that's the
35:04part that never quite happens because a
35:06magic trick yeah well because if that
35:07happens then you you can't then you
35:09can't run for re-election on on the same
35:10story right uh you can't you know this
35:13is the problem and this is also the
35:14problem with like every nonprofit right
35:16that this is like the problem you know
35:17homeless you know we spend like what is
35:19it we spend you know like a billion plus
35:21dollars to these uh you know quote
35:22unquote homelessness nonprofits in San
35:24Francisco every year and it homelessness
35:25keeps getting worse right and it's like
35:27well of course it does it's because like
35:28how if you're homelessness nonprofit do
35:30you make money by actually solving
35:31homelessness or having be there be more
35:33of it right you make money by having
35:34there there be more of it you you you
35:35feed the problem um and so that that you
35:38know we're we're just we're in this cult
35:40it's really intensified in the last
35:41decade like we're in this culture in
35:43which you know the the sort of
35:44prevailing message from the from the
35:46sort of most most important Elites is
35:48you know you're a victim um and and
35:49they're going to keep selling that story
35:51for as long as people keep buying it and
35:53then I think you know over time I think
35:54more and more people are going to figure
35:55out that that that they're being sold to
35:56bad story and that that that that leads
35:58nowhere good and that that's there
35:59there's no way to live life you know is
36:01by thinking that you're oppressed the
36:02whole time um and you know the right
36:04thing to do is to say oh actually I you
36:05know I live in a like free and
36:07prosperous society and I can I can
36:08improve myself and I can take control of
36:10my destiny and I can do great things
36:12until then you're until then you're
36:13trapped when people come to my seminars
36:15because of what you described I say I
36:16just want to warn you in advance this is
36:18not a safe space and there'll be no
36:20warnings like if you if you're looking
36:22for a safe space and your definition is
36:24everyone's going to tell you what you
36:25already believe then you wasted your
36:27time to come here because this is all
36:29about questioning all of our beliefs and
36:31and testing it and seeing how does it
36:32really work in the real world and in
36:34that way it's really the safest space of
36:36all because the truth will set you free
36:38but most people don't care about the
36:39truth anymore they just care about
36:41reinforcing what they already believe
36:42and as you said whatever is reinforced
36:44continues but the pattern is so extreme
36:47now it's like you know silence is
36:49violence uh you know words are violence
36:52you know I think I heard Chris Rock say
36:54If you think words are violence no one
36:56SLA the out of you on National
36:59Television violence is violence right
37:01you know and those same people now are
37:03chanting death to very to people in
37:06Israel I mean it's just that's just
37:07crazy I'm like I I hate what's happening
37:10both sides of the Middle East when
37:11innocent people are injured I don't care
37:13what their background is it's horrific
37:15but to say you know words of violence
37:18and you're going to eliminate somebody
37:19from the staff for doing it but you're
37:21not going to stand up and say no
37:23beheading of children and raping of
37:25women is totally okay it's not okay on
37:28any side of of any whether it be in Gaza
37:31or be Israel or anywhere else and none
37:33of it is okay but it's crazy where our
37:35world has entered but again the pendulum
37:37I I agree with you Mark I think the
37:38pendulum is thrown so far and there's a
37:41point now where the PE the quiet middle
37:43start finally starting to speak up
37:44because it's affecting the quality of
37:45their life on a massive scale but when
37:48you vote people in office and they know
37:50they can give you whatever you want and
37:51they're willing to do it to and just
37:53print money that's why we end up in the
37:54position we are right now with inflation
37:57yeah you know Tony on the uh on the uh
38:01kind of Israel Palestine issue you had a
38:04crazy story in the book about a seminar
38:06you were doing on uh right when 911
38:10happened um where you had a uh one of
38:13the members of the audience was from
38:15Pakistan and then the other was a Jewish
38:17member and it sounded like they were
38:19ready to kill each other right there
38:22like at the seminar and then uh you know
38:25you work through it maybe I would love
38:27to kind of hear that story and how you
38:30think about it in today's
38:32context it was it was 911 I was in
38:34Hawaii we had we doing at the time a
38:3610day seminar where I basically kill
38:38people you take them 12 14 hours a day
38:40for 12 straight days and nights and and
38:43you know I bring in some really
38:44brilliant brilliant teachers I had
38:46storman Norman General Norman uh come in
38:49and teach leadership a variety of people
38:51but what happened during 911 was you
38:53know I just finished in evening at
38:55midnight 1 in the morning morning and we
38:57were in Hawaii so around 3:00 in the
38:58morning banging on my door letting me
39:00know hey turn on the television and so I
39:04did and saw what everybody saw on CNN
39:06and first first building hit and I
39:08thought this is horrible and everybody
39:09didn't know it was terrorism when the
39:11second one happened all hell was
39:12breaking loose in the building because
39:14the entire Hotel was made up of
39:15thousands of people from all over the
39:17world we were translating I think eight
39:18languages simultaneously we had every
39:21religion there so there were people that
39:23were fighting in the halls there were
39:24people crying uncontrollably knew this
39:26was was the end times everybody
39:28responded to it based on what I call
39:30their emotional home we have an
39:32emotional home a place we go back to
39:33whether it's good or bad if you're used
39:35to negative feelings sadness and feeling
39:37sorry for yourself you'll go there if
39:38you're an angry person you'll go there
39:41if you're a person that looks out to
39:42support others you're going to be in a
39:43supportive role and that's all that
39:45happened everybody played the roles they
39:47play they went to their emotional homes
39:49but was brutal no one's wanted to come
39:50to classes and get everybody in class we
39:53brought them all together and I said
39:54listen by now I'm sure most of you know
39:57you know this has occurred we can't get
39:59off the island here you know the all the
40:01flights were canceled so we got to do
40:03what we can do so let's do a blood drive
40:04and then let's process this together and
40:07I ask people three questions because
40:08these are the three decisions people
40:09make every moment their life first you
40:11decide what to focus on we don't
40:13experience life we experience a life we
40:15focus on and what's wrong is always
40:17available so is what's right so 3,000
40:20people died it was horrific I wouldn't
40:22play that any smaller than what it was
40:24but 4,000 people die every day of hard
40:26disease and cancer and no one says a
40:27word their mothers fathers Brothers if
40:29there were in airplanes falling out of
40:31the sky everybody right Dr VJ would be
40:33going crazy but we're just immune to it
40:35so whatever we focus on we feel and so
40:38the decision is what to focus on whether
40:40you can control it or not whether it's
40:42the past present or the future whether
40:44it's what's missing from your life or
40:45what you have controls the quality of
40:47your life so I I said I put you in
40:49groups I want you to tell me what did
40:50you focus on when you heard it what did
40:52it mean to you is at the end the
40:54beginning what and what are you going to
40:55do and then I walked around the room and
40:57got the education of a lifetime because
40:59you know I watched this woman got this
41:01really thick accent and she was talking
41:03so angrily spit was coming out of her
41:05mouth to the people in her group and I
41:07made sure the groups had men and women
41:09and they were from different countries
41:10and so I I peered in I said ma'am can I
41:13ask you a question I said are you from
41:14uh United States she said no said do you
41:17have you visited New York ever she said
41:19no I said do you have family here she
41:20said no I said well why are you so angry
41:25and she goes cuz I just do just get so
41:26angry about these things I said well I'm
41:29just curious how often do you get angry
41:32she goes what do you mean how often do I
41:33get angry I get real lot why I said well
41:36once a week once a month daily and a
41:38long story short it came down to she
41:40sees anger as fuel she does it all the
41:42time I went to another group just to
41:44give you a quick example and a woman's
41:46crying uncontrollably and she's talking
41:48about how guilty she feels because she's
41:49a nurse she's from New Jersey and she
41:52should be there and she can't get off
41:53the island and people are dying and
41:54she's not able to help and I felt her
41:57emotion and then same thing I I stopped
41:59her and I said you know can I ask you a
42:00question how often do you feel
42:03guilty so what do you mean I said once a
42:05month feels guilty all the time so
42:08people went to their place but when I
42:09went to do the shares one woman got up
42:11and shared the fact that after we
42:13finished at midnight she went back to
42:15her room and she was planning on
42:18separating from her boyfriend and left
42:20in bad bad situation but what I said
42:22that night she decided to call him say I
42:24love him and that she was wanted me
42:26marry him and turns out he was at the
42:27top of the World Trade Center and sure
42:30enough he got she got left a message
42:32from him she was asleep and she played
42:34it for us talking about how much he
42:36loves her and how much it means such a
42:38world to him that what she said and he
42:40doesn't how to tell her this but he's
42:42not going to get out of the building
42:43it's on fire and she's wondering
42:44probably why this happened because her
42:46previous boyfriend was murdered and he
42:48said all I can tell you is God should
42:50maybe this is the lesson to tell you
42:51don't ever wait to to love again and so
42:54everybody's crying next guy stands up
42:56the end of the story he says my name is
42:58so and so I'm from Pakistan I'm a Muslim
43:02I'd love to say I could hold your hand
43:03and feel sorry for you but this is
43:06retribution it was like the entire
43:09building turned into a war zone because
43:11you know another man stood up who was
43:13you know had lost I guess 12 of his
43:15friends that day at the top of the
43:17center there and one of the financial
43:19institutions and his family lived in the
43:21occupied territories Jewish man and they
43:23started going at it and I brought him on
43:25stage and we did this integration
43:27process that it's all on film anybody
43:29can see it we've posted it um because
43:31you took these two guys that wanted to
43:33kill each other and at the end they
43:34formed a group that actually went around
43:36with Jews and Gentiles Christians and
43:39Muslims all together and started
43:42preaching in different churches and
43:43mosque and so forth peace and the young
43:45man wrote a book called my Jihad where
43:48he talked about he was trained in a camp
43:50his dad sent him to Berkeley so he
43:51wouldn't do it he told people that
43:53morning his only wish was he wish he was
43:55on one of those planes and then he
43:57realized the Jihad was with himself and
43:59now he's transformed himself so there's
44:01ways to shift people no matter what how
44:03does that relate to today I mean there's
44:05so much pain that you you have to do it
44:08families at a time organizations at a
44:10time first got to feed people provide
44:12electricity and save some lives and then
44:14we're going to have to deal with a
44:15psychology what's happening there on
44:16both sides this there are no simple
44:18answers in this case but people can
44:21completely change their beliefs no
44:22matter how embedded they are if you find
44:25the right Leverage and if you can get
44:26them to see that it's really everything
44:28I blame you for even if you've done
44:31something to me my experience is mine
44:34alone everybody has their own 100%
44:36responsibility for what they feel now
44:38somebody tries to kill you obviously
44:39you're going to feel a certain way but
44:41being able to shift your psychology so
44:43you can have a healthy life everyone's
44:45capable of doing it's not easy but it's
44:48doable and it's certainly hard with a
44:49group of people but I mean I've been
44:51doing that with tens of thousands of
44:52people millions of people for decades
44:54and I'm not the only one um one of the
44:57you know kind of things that you get
44:59into in the book which kind of merges uh
45:04your work and kind of the work of uh of
45:08kind of all the scientists that you've
45:10you've assembled and and so forth is
45:12this kind of idea of uh you know the the
45:17mind's connection to your health and
45:20things like psychon neuroimmunology and
45:22and like how that works um and I'd love
45:26uh kind of for you you to talk about
45:29that a little and VJ for you to kind of
45:31chime in on you know like what you know
45:33how powerful is this uh you know if I
45:36get sick can I just fix myself and how
45:39does that work uh would be I think
45:42really interesting for everyone well I
45:44look at it you got to do both I look you
45:46got to do the physical side and the mind
45:48side the mind has much more power than
45:49we give it credit for and I know Dr VJ
45:51I'm sure have done homework on it but
45:53you can take any result you get with
45:55virtually any drug and at least 25% of
45:57the time the placebo will do the same
45:59result in almost every study I've read
46:01um in some cases as much of 40 or 50% uh
46:04but there's no money made in placebos
46:07you know and placebos can even work when
46:08you know it's a placebo that's what's
46:10crazy about it the interesting about
46:12placebos is people think well it's just
46:14a sugar pill and then you convince the
46:16mind and then somehow the body takes
46:18over but you know harv in studies where
46:20they actually give people uh you know uh
46:23barbituate which slowing the body down
46:25and Els and amphetamine give them a big
46:27red pill the size of the pill makes a
46:29difference by the way the bigger the
46:30pill the more profound the impact if you
46:32give an injection even more so if you do
46:34fake surgery even more so more
46:36convincing to the brain and produces a
46:38result but imagine we G A barbituate
46:40your whole body has to slow down your
46:42brain believes it's an amphetamine and
46:43their biochemistry speeds up and they do
46:45vice versa I mean uh the most invasive
46:49would be there was a study done by the
46:50VA and it was on arthoscopic surgeries
46:53and what they did was they took a group
46:55this and then as a result is they
46:56changed all the policies the VA around
46:58this and they gave them fake surgeries
47:01what they did is put them under just
47:02like the other group nobody who they
47:03were put a cut open the knee just to cut
47:07the flap sewed it back did nothing to
47:10the knee the other group they did
47:11arthoscopic surgery and what they found
47:13is after six months the group that had
47:16no nothing done to them improved more
47:18than the group with the surgery and
47:21after doing the several follow-ups that
47:23that they no longer fund it so it's
47:25literally that powerful and it was not
47:27just self-reporting was also The Mending
47:29of it as well so what our brains can do
47:31is amazing you know Ellen Langer from
47:33Harvard is a friend of mine she's the
47:35one who did those uh reverse studies
47:37where she took people in their late 70s
47:40to this place in the Ander Onex for
47:42three weeks and they put nothing but
47:44newspapers pictures everything from 35
47:47years earlier and they literally lived
47:50it they were all talking in the first
47:52person they had a television set that
47:53had things from that time in black and
47:55white and in two weeks the
47:57transformation of these people the
47:59pictures alone would blow your mind but
48:01their blood pressure went down their
48:03immune systems became stronger I mean
48:05the the changes their resting heart rate
48:07changed I mean these are changes that
48:10just physically shouldn't be any way but
48:12the mind has that kind of power it also
48:14has the opposite power I remember Norman
48:15Cousins when he was alive I had a
48:17privilege of spending time with him he
48:18came to one of my firewalks because he
48:20was so fascinated by what the mind could
48:21do in that area and um and he was
48:24telling me the study about said he was
48:26at this game that was in LA and was
48:28written up about he wrote up about it
48:29later and there was this person who
48:31started projectile vomiting and it was
48:33right there in the midst of a large
48:35number of people and they ran off and
48:38when they came back they were trying to
48:40figure out what it was what caused this
48:42and so sure enough they thought maybe he
48:45it was the soda pop he drank so the
48:47announcer said if you drank any of that
48:49Sodapop please stop you know I'm talking
48:51about Coca-Cola whatever it was out of
48:52that machine and people started
48:55projectile vomiting all over the stadium
48:58literally they had 12 ambulances come
49:00there and take people away and then
49:03about an hour later they figured out it
49:04wasn't the soda pop and everything
49:06cleaned up and resided so we not only
49:09can heal ourselves we can make ourselves
49:10sick and you know our our concept of
49:13aging and what age means is so rooted I
49:16I used to have this gentleman who's now
49:18passed away when I was in my late early
49:2030s I'd bring them to my events and I
49:23would have people close their eyes
49:24during one of these health events and
49:26before I began just to talk about the
49:27power of the mind I said I want you to
49:29close your eyes and imagine a 75y old
49:31man okay what you think of 75y old man
49:34would look like get a good picture good
49:35sense and I have my friend walk out on
49:37stage and when they open their eyes I
49:39said is this the man you pictured and
49:41he's you know he was bench pressing 450
49:44pounds and he was just chiseled and
49:46incredible at 75 years old right and one
49:49of my dear friends this is years ago one
49:51of my dear friends I've known for almost
49:5235 40 years the other day just turned 70
49:55and he said he was walking by the mirror
49:57and he goes he looked in the mirror and
49:58he's fit is fiddle is unbelievable right
50:01and he goes you know I owe that to you
50:03he goes that stuck in my head because
50:04the image I had was a broken down old
50:06person but from that day on I had an
50:09image of what I'm actually like right
50:10now today so yes I would never just say
50:14only the mind I go for the biochemistry
50:17I go for the shift that you're going to
50:18make in the body but if you leave out
50:20the mind you're an idiot they're so
50:23combined you can do all the right things
50:24biochemically in your mind can overcome
50:26them yeah this is one of the areas I
50:28think is super fascinating I think a lot
50:30of times people reframe things the wrong
50:33way that we think of the null hypothesis
50:35as the placebo instead of no drug and
50:38like I think finally we're starting to
50:40understand actually how it works because
50:41if the placebo effect is so strong be
50:44great to understand it be great to
50:45harness it and it be great to take
50:47advantage of it um because of hopefully
50:50a lack of negative side effects and I
50:52think that's what we're starting to see
50:53in that that field of uh uh Psych neur
50:56um immunology and it is just fascinating
50:58even from the molecular point of view
51:00like the same proteins gpcrs that are in
51:02our brains are in our gut and the mind
51:05gut interface is is is very complicated
51:08and very interesting and we're just
51:10starting to sort of poke away at it um
51:13and you know I think part of what the
51:15problem here that for everything we've
51:17been talking about for trying to improve
51:18healthc care is that we've got the
51:20Innovations on the science side we've
51:22got to deliver it to people and I think
51:24what we're starting to see is more
51:26value-based care more ways that people
51:28care about the outcome rather than just
51:30providing a service and if you care
51:32about the outcome you'll incorporate
51:34whatever works and we're just at the
51:35beginning of that but I think people
51:37will really start looking to these areas
51:39when they're really incented for
51:41Solutions yeah and VJ maybe you could
51:44expand on that from like a Health Care
51:45System what does that mean like how does
51:47a Health Care system work today and
51:50drive the incentives and then then where
51:52do we want to get to in order to be
51:55come yeah yeah the healthc care system
51:58right now is a fee for service kind of
52:00like a plumber so a plumber will come
52:01over your house and they'll fix
52:02something do they care about your house
52:05do they you know will they be thinking
52:06ahead for what your house needs that's
52:08not their job like that's your job right
52:10and so right now we have to be sort of
52:12the general contractor of our body and
52:14we have to bring in the plumber and the
52:15electrician or whatever to take care of
52:17that what would be better is somebody
52:19who is financially incented for our
52:21outcome for incented to keep us healthy
52:24and we're starting to see that right now
52:26where one of the Innovative areas are
52:28companies that are both payers and
52:30providers so right now an insurance
52:32company can largely just say know uh or
52:34or pay but if the insurance company is
52:36also the one providing they want to keep
52:38you healthy because healthier people
52:39cost less and of course now we finally
52:42have the incentives aligned and I think
52:44that was what was mistaken like our
52:46incentives are misaligned will have all
52:48this crazy stuff but when we all want
52:50the same thing which is for us to be
52:52healthy uh then actually people will do
52:54creative things to be able to align that
52:57and I I think what Tony was talking
52:58about um just recently but also earlier
53:01for like different ways of thinking
53:03about mental health and all these things
53:04if you know you're just providing
53:06Services you may even want to be a
53:08therapist as an annuity you know the
53:11therapist is there for a long time
53:12curing someone quickly may not be what
53:15you're financially incentive for and so
53:17we we need to really flip all of that
53:19and I know Tony you spoken to that uh so
53:21we we need if we can flip the incentives
53:24I think then we can finally get the out
53:25we want and then um you know Tony
53:29mentioned something earlier that I
53:30wanted to come back to which is kind of
53:32drug development is very different now
53:35um with AI and uh kind of and then our
53:39understanding of the human body through
53:41kind of a different data set than we've
53:44historically um how do VJ maybe you
53:47could talk about that and how does it uh
53:51kind of change the way that we want to
53:55from you know development to regulation
53:58to like when things are safe and so
54:00forth you know this is something that I
54:02think many of us have been waiting for
54:03for for a decade or two because we see
54:06that biology is really complicated I
54:08mean of that there's no doubt we don't
54:10even know all the actors we don't know
54:12all that's going on and so a very top-
54:14down approach is probably going to fail
54:16but what um AI I think has in common
54:19with what we're talking about with
54:20Tony's approach is that AI is very
54:22empirical it's like give me the data let
54:24me come up with the best thing I can
54:26come up with let's try it and then we'll
54:28re we'll iterate that and do better and
54:30better and in a sense it's basically
54:32just the best way to mathematical way to
54:35handle the data and iterate and improve
54:37and that's what Active Learning is and
54:39so on so that's actually perfectly
54:42coinciding with this revolution in
54:44biology and Medicine where we can now
54:45measure things we can do tons of
54:47biological experiments we have tons of
54:49wearables uh tons of measurements and so
54:52data plus AI means plus iterations means
54:54we can can finally make advances and I
54:57think that has to then be coupled with a
55:00sort of u a regulatory system that would
55:03understand that there are these advances
55:05and try to help accelerate them because
55:07if we don't get those iterations we
55:08won't we'll be stuck and sometimes it
55:11may take like five 10 tries or something
55:13and but we want to do it safely but we
55:15want to encourage Innovation and that
55:16tension is is I think still being worked
55:18out right now I think the good news is
55:20when you talk to people in the
55:22Regulatory Agencies I think they they
55:24want to help people they want Innovation
55:26they don't want to stifle Innovation so
55:28now the question is how can we work
55:30together to really promote that well on
55:32the incentive thing there though if you
55:35work at the FDA for example it would
55:38seem that if you let a drug through
55:41that's dangerous that's very bad that is
55:45very bad but if you approve a drug
55:47that's good that's like maybe nobody
55:50cares yeah that's the problem the as
55:52that asymmetry there is for sure there
55:55and like I think we have to reframe it
55:57almost like the classic TR trolley
55:59problem where if you don't let the drug
56:00through we're actually killing people
56:02right now by not getting these advances
56:04through and and how I think human beings
56:07aren't very good at sort of holding that
56:10head very bad at it yeah it's why we uh
56:15yeah it's it's why we take off our shoes
56:20911 or or like the self-driving cars
56:22right like self-driving cars now in many
56:24cases could be safer than human drivers
56:27but you make uh if but they won't be
56:29perfect but people I think can't ra
56:31reason that actually you're killing
56:33people by having humans Drive once self
56:36once cars or self-driving cars are more
56:38uh safe and uh I guess Tony in the that
56:43you're doing on health how how do you
56:45think about um kind of how to move these
56:50incentives uh so that you know all this
56:54great work can actually take effect
56:56because it it does feel like um the
57:00amount of innovation that's about to
57:02happen is going to completely overwhelm
57:05the current way of doing things you know
57:07particularly with incentives to to kind
57:10of stop progress I think AI is providing
57:14the ability to do things faster quicker
57:16and more accurately so take two of the
57:18biggest diseases that you know kill
57:20people heart disease and cancer uh AI
57:23has made a giant change in that just in
57:25the last year year and a half I was one
57:26of the first people to get one of the
57:28coolly CCTA scans uh my partners at
57:31Fountain life called me up and said Tony
57:32this is the greatest breakthrough in
57:33cardiology we've seen in 20 years and
57:36what it does is you know you try to read
57:37one of these scans of what's happening
57:39in your body it's it's pretty hard to be
57:41able to read even if you're a great
57:43doctor and these scans literally go in
57:45and create a three-dimensional
57:47description of what's going on in your
57:49body and can track okay these are
57:52calcified versus soft I mean the soft
57:54ones can break off right and literally
57:56they'll give you the the Widow effect
57:58they're going to give you a heart attack
57:59or a stroke housei your body has
58:01actually healed itself and there's been
58:04no real way to clearly um you know see
58:06that before these AIS and the level of
58:08detail is mind-boggling with precision
58:11and I I remember I went and I had my
58:1280-year-old father father-in-law come
58:15with me and man I really love dearly I
58:17mean he's a self-made guy he was in the
58:19lumber business he strong as an ox still
58:22yeah you started turning 80 and
58:23everybody starts saying well you should
58:24you know start prepare for the
58:26inevitable end and so forth and I could
58:28see the psychology dropping him so I
58:31said hey Pops I said I'm going to go do
58:32this test you know we're just you know
58:34going to the center here it's it's a
58:35little 30 minutes away I said why don't
58:37you come with me and we'll do it
58:38together I said I'm sure we both have
58:40some plaques but it'll show us what it
58:42is and then it'll show us what to do and
58:43it's exactly precise to our bodies like
58:45nothing you've ever seen and he said
58:47okay we'll go so we go we we do the test
58:50and you know to give you a contrast of
58:53one of our friends had a calcium test of
58:58thousand he couldn't get life insurance
59:00it was over I've never seen an insurance
59:02company to do this before but with our
59:04work we went to them and they reversed
59:06themselves because when we showed his
59:08thousand was all calcified his his body
59:10was completely healthy there was no risk
59:12whatsoever and they actually gave him
59:13the life insurance which blew me away I
59:15never think insurance company would do
59:16that but that's how accurate it is now
59:18it's it's indisputable anyway the Lend
59:22father-in-law he's clean as a whis
59:25right I got a few things but he's clean
59:27as a whistle he walks out that place and
59:29then you know we had this we have this
59:31Hydro dissection which is you know if
59:33you have certain problems in your body
59:35when your tissue or nerves are trapped
59:37you know they put this fluid in and it
59:39helps to open it up and heal it in
59:40seconds literally I had a problem in my
59:42ankle for 14 years you know 15 minutes
59:45it's never been a problem again it's
59:46mindboggling and so you know you had a
59:48hip problems so they went and did Hydro
59:50dissection he did his test I'll never
59:52forget we get on the plane and Mark and
59:55Benny sits down from me Dr VJ and he's
59:57got this big smile on his face he goes
59:59you know Tony people talk about living
01:00:00to be you know over aund and stuff I
01:00:02don't know about that but you know I'm
01:00:04only 80 you know my heart is solid like
01:00:06a 20year old he goes you know my hips
01:00:09I'm walking perfect he goes I could live
01:00:11another 20 years and as long as you've
01:00:13known my daughter you know he said I
01:00:14think I could do that so the
01:00:16psychological shift's amazing but then
01:00:18then there's cancer right so the AI was
01:00:21part of how Grail came up with their
01:00:23blood test which are probably familiar
01:00:24with not all your audience may be but
01:00:27you know the biggest problem with cancer
01:00:28is we catch it too late we have a
01:00:30variety of tests a mamogram let's say
01:00:33you know you know colonoscopy and so
01:00:35forth but the ones that get us are the
01:00:36ones we don't measure and the problem is
01:00:39when you know be the Cancer Society
01:00:41studies you say Well if you get stage
01:00:43three or stage four You' got about a 80
01:00:46to 90% chance of dying I prefer a you
01:00:48know 20 to 10% chance of living that's
01:00:51how they frame it to be fair on the
01:00:53other side if you catch it at stage one
01:00:55or two it's about a 998 to 100% chance
01:00:57that you're going to be healthy so I had
01:00:59a friend that went in and you know went
01:01:00did our forecast and or did all the
01:01:02scans I should say and did the Grail and
01:01:05did the MRI for his body and his wife
01:01:08was getting him to do it he didn't want
01:01:09to do it sure enough he had you know
01:01:11stage one bladder cancer but guess what
01:01:13caught it immediately yeah 40 minute
01:01:15procedure outpatient he's totally fine
01:01:17and healthy I have another partner only
01:01:19two weeks ago um who is really he's he's
01:01:23looking to help create this solution in
01:01:25the highest end locations a person who
01:01:28built a multi-billion Dollar Hotel set
01:01:30of hotel chains sold them December of
01:01:332019 right before covid brilliantly uh
01:01:37and but now he's a different stage of
01:01:38life and he wants to build these centers
01:01:39where they're not like these little Spas
01:01:41but a place you can have a home or go
01:01:43visit and live but where it's truly The
01:01:46Cutting Edge in medical care and medical
01:01:48screening and Rejuvenation and so I put
01:01:50him through our Center and he was blown
01:01:52away and guess what two anisms one about
01:01:55to hit him he went and just you know had
01:01:57the surgery the other day and saved his
01:01:58life so AI is already entering the world
01:02:03because it's so much more effective and
01:02:05it's so much cheaper and it's going to
01:02:07only get faster and cheaper and to me
01:02:10that's the solution besides just Ed
01:02:11educating the general public general
01:02:13public no longer just accepts a medical
01:02:15diagnosis Unfortunately they go on the
01:02:17web and read 8 million horrible things
01:02:20but a lot of people today are saying no
01:02:22I'm going to educate myself I need to be
01:02:23the CEO of my own health today I need to
01:02:26take these doctors in who are the best
01:02:29and get them to coach me but in the end
01:02:31I've got to make the decision what's
01:02:32right for my own health I have a tumor I
01:02:35was 5-1 in high school I'm now 67 I tell
01:02:38people the difference is personal
01:02:41growth that's a lot of personal growth
01:02:43the truth is I had a tumor uh and in my
01:02:46pituitary gland and it made me grow 10
01:02:48inches in a year which is when people
01:02:50talk about growing pains it's physically
01:02:52stretching your muscles cramping it's
01:02:54incredibly painful but I went through
01:02:56that and then didn't know what it was
01:02:59and then around 30 years old I was I'm a
01:03:01helicopter pilot as well so I'd go in
01:03:02and get my renew my license and this
01:03:05doctor had a suspicion he did a blood
01:03:07test and called me in and told me I
01:03:08needed immediately have surgery you know
01:03:10brain surgery I said what do you mean
01:03:11brain well you've got a tumor in your
01:03:13pituitary gland how do you know this
01:03:15blood test I said well you know I didn't
01:03:18come to you with any side effects and
01:03:20long story short I went through he would
01:03:23did not have a good bed side man or he
01:03:25wanted to do surgery no matter what I
01:03:26wanted a second opinion he was irritated
01:03:28so I did several second opinions because
01:03:30the male clinic has found that 74% of
01:03:33the time the second opinion is not the
01:03:35same as the first it's insane they
01:03:37recommend a second opinion right so I
01:03:40went and got five opinions and one
01:03:43wanted to drug me one wanted to do
01:03:44surgery one wanted me to go overseas to
01:03:47do these shots in Switzerland only twice
01:03:49a year to be safe and I said but doc I
01:03:51don't have my arteries aren't enlarged
01:03:53all the things I don't have any symptoms
01:03:54he goes well just to be certain turned
01:03:57out that drug and man was a good man by
01:03:58the way um six months later the FDA did
01:04:01not allow it in the US because they
01:04:03found out had caused cancer so I still
01:04:05have the tumor it infared which means
01:04:07swallowed a good portion of itself up
01:04:09it's still in my brain it gave me a huge
01:04:11amount of growth hormone which I don't I
01:04:13get you know what basically bodybuilders
01:04:15pay $1,200 a month for I guess and it's
01:04:18naturally flowing through my veins and
01:04:20you know I look at it as a little gift
01:04:21from God gift from the universe type of
01:04:22thing but I I've still measured I
01:04:24haven't had any changes but if I done
01:04:27what anybody else told me and not
01:04:29educated myself to all my options I
01:04:31delen in the P piece in my brain and by
01:04:33the way number one side effect is loss
01:04:35of energy which to me would be like
01:04:37cutting Samson's hair you know it's like
01:04:39I get up and do 12 hours at a shot you
01:04:41know with the level of intensity most
01:04:43people can't even imagine and you know
01:04:45I'm 64 years old that doing what I'm
01:04:47more than I did when I was 24 so that
01:04:49was not something I was willing to
01:04:51settle for so I think that's why I wrote
01:04:53the book life force I wanted to give
01:04:54them the best experts on the face of the
01:04:56earth in every area that matters and
01:04:59then they can dive in as much or as
01:05:01little as they want do the natural
01:05:03things they can naturally do or take on
01:05:04some of the newest breakthroughs in
01:05:05medicine as well yeah one of the things
01:05:08um that you hit on is you know kind of
01:05:11people are nervous to get these new
01:05:13Diagnostics and you know one of the
01:05:15things that we have so we we have a
01:05:18company in uh in vj's portfolio called
01:05:20cubio which um has built an MRI scanner
01:05:24that can kind of uh basically scan you
01:05:27in 10 minutes instead of an hour and
01:05:28it's much cheaper and so forth um and
01:05:31then they do a kind of a digital twin
01:05:33type service where uh you know they do
01:05:35comprehensive blood tests and all these
01:05:37kinds of things and you know I was so
01:05:39excited about it you know Mark and I
01:05:41were just like we're gonna buy this for
01:05:43every employee so that they you know can
01:05:45just do it the hard part is getting them
01:05:48all to go so the ones who have gone you
01:05:50know we've had amazing results you know
01:05:52a couple of people caught things
01:05:54very early and you know life-saving uh
01:05:58diagnostic um but people are
01:06:01nervous uh you know they don't want to
01:06:04know how did you you know how do you
01:06:06overcome that I I kind of help people in
01:06:08the book with that because I was the
01:06:09same thing like I don't want to do that
01:06:11it's GNA find something doesn't matter
01:06:12we're gonna over respond to it overreact
01:06:15but the technology is so solid today
01:06:17that to not know is is you're an idiot
01:06:20because if you get to the stage three
01:06:21four it's too late so why not catch it
01:06:24when it's small and if you got nothing
01:06:25going on it's just like a cool update
01:06:27like it was from my father-in-law where
01:06:29it actually will bring optimism if
01:06:31there's a challenge I want to know it
01:06:32now but you know same thing business
01:06:34when I was a young man in business I was
01:06:35overwhelmed with two companies you know
01:06:37I got 111 companies now it was like oh
01:06:40don't tell me the you know if someone
01:06:42said there's good news and bad news just
01:06:43tell me the good news right now I always
01:06:45say tell me the bad news the good news
01:06:46will take care of itself tell me the bad
01:06:47news let's solve it let's move I think
01:06:50you have the same mindset with your own
01:06:51health but what you're doing we we I'd
01:06:54like to talk to you offline about the
01:06:55company because we have a whole series
01:06:56of centers we find 14% of the people
01:06:59have a life-threatening disease they
01:07:00don't know that they have and we are
01:07:02able to intervene immediately in ways
01:07:04that make a difference but we also find
01:07:06about 68% of the people have something
01:07:08that could massively improve their
01:07:10energy level in their body which is the
01:07:11basis of health of everything in your
01:07:13body so whether that be hormone support
01:07:16you know I'm not talking about
01:07:17replacement you know I'm talking about
01:07:18optimization you go to your doctor today
01:07:20and if you're a male and your
01:07:21testosterone's 150 they'll say you're
01:07:24but most men don't feel like a human if
01:07:26they don't have somewhere between 600
01:07:28and you know 800 or more depends on the
01:07:30person so you don't have to replace
01:07:32anything but there are certain things
01:07:33that can give you Vitality we got to
01:07:35remember in you know couple centuries
01:07:37ago 1800s people lived on average of 30
01:07:40you know now the worldwide average is
01:07:41you know 72 and you know so it's like
01:07:44the world has changed and you deserve to
01:07:47know the breakthroughs you don't have to
01:07:48use them all if you don't want to but
01:07:49you should know what your options are
01:07:51well and you know we have mental models
01:07:53for this too like you could imagine this
01:07:55could get as standard and unexciting
01:07:58like going to the dentist you they go to
01:08:00a dentist you get your scan like oh man
01:08:02I have a cavity okay I'm gonna have some
01:08:04procedure you take it out it's not a big
01:08:06deal you know no it's not fun maybe but
01:08:09it's like not life-threatening and you
01:08:10can imagine that might be the future of
01:08:12something like cancer where you get your
01:08:13skin like oh man it's like stage one I
01:08:16have to do some surgery or maybe take
01:08:17this drug by a cop super early it's
01:08:20going to be very straightforward it's
01:08:21not going to kill me it might not be but
01:08:24actually kind of like not going to the
01:08:26dentist for like a lifetime could be
01:08:27very unpleasant like not going to this
01:08:29could be more yeah yeah interesting and
01:08:32I and I guess you know the we used to
01:08:35die of all kinds of things that we don't
01:08:37die from now yeah we have we actually
01:08:40have an insurance company now we're
01:08:41doing for businesses that self-insure
01:08:43where our insurance costs the same
01:08:45amount but we do all these tests in
01:08:47advance and the reason we can do it and
01:08:48it's profitable is because we catch it
01:08:50when it's small all the money goes for
01:08:52those later stages is when people are
01:08:54breaking down when it's too late and so
01:08:57you you change their life you save their
01:08:59life and you save economics as well and
01:09:01I think that'll be I think that's the
01:09:02entry point I think businesses are
01:09:04probably the entry point uh as well as
01:09:06individuals who are going to seek out
01:09:08you know a better quality of care for
01:09:10employees like one of the things that I
01:09:12find you know which is why it's so
01:09:14compelling for businesses is you know as
01:09:16a business you've got
01:09:18a kind of business incentive to not like
01:09:21have your employees get sick but know it
01:09:24also is kind of a great you know to your
01:09:27earlier Point Tony about okay are you
01:09:30actively engaged are you actively
01:09:32disengaged are you kind of semi- engaged
01:09:35and nothing kind of engages people more
01:09:39than wow like you're going to live a
01:09:42long time we're going to take care of
01:09:43you this is the thing life is great you
01:09:46you know that's the thing that uh kind
01:09:48of gives people kind gets them fired up
01:09:51about work and we kind of have this old
01:09:54system where businesses have to provide
01:09:57health insurance but it's done in like
01:10:00the dumbest way imaginable like
01:10:02massively expensive you know we'll only
01:10:05we don't want to pay for Diagnostics we
01:10:07only want to pay when you get sick and
01:10:09all these kinds of you know bananas
01:10:11things so so maybe that is uh you know
01:10:14that we got a we have a disease care
01:10:16system not a Health Care System right
01:10:17now yeah that's going to change is
01:10:19because also so much is being
01:10:20miniaturized that's why I want to find
01:10:22about what you guys are doing I know
01:10:23open water is working on one nmri you
01:10:25could do in your home for like $1,500 I
01:10:28know they're not there yet but that's
01:10:29their vision and Direction so much is
01:10:31going to be things that are tied to your
01:10:33wrist or you know we're going to have
01:10:35that data live we all have it right now
01:10:36but at a whole different level in the
01:10:38next six to 10 years and I think um it's
01:10:41going to make a giant difference and and
01:10:42you look around with AI and you look
01:10:44around all the jobs that'll be disrupted
01:10:46new jobs will be created but my bigger
01:10:48concern is that people you know people
01:10:50say well no one has to work well that's
01:10:52part of the challenge we have right now
01:10:54people need need meaning and without
01:10:56without some form of work and you know
01:10:58some people's work is play I don't know
01:11:00I assume for you guys it's more play
01:11:01than work it certainly is for me yeah it
01:11:03doesn't mean it's not hard at times but
01:11:05the bottom line is you enjoy it or you
01:11:07wouldn't be doing it at this stage of
01:11:09your life you don't have to nor nor do I
01:11:11but if you can get people to experience
01:11:13that meaning and whatever they do but
01:11:15it's got to be I think the thing thing
01:11:17that we're somehow missing that's part
01:11:19of the mental health side is
01:11:21understanding that I'm here for
01:11:23something more than myself you know
01:11:25until you find something you value more
01:11:27than yourself that you want to serve
01:11:29you're going to have limited energy
01:11:30limited Focus limited everything because
01:11:32the more you focus on yourself the more
01:11:33you're miserable it's just the way the
01:11:34mind works your mind is a great tool
01:11:37should be used don't let it use you it's
01:11:38like Tech you know Tech sometimes starts
01:11:41to use us if we're not smart right you
01:11:42know social media is a perfect example
01:11:44of that but if you're smart you use your
01:11:46mind but your mind's never going to
01:11:47allow you to enjoy an apple it's going
01:11:48to go is it organic you know it's juu
01:11:52and question everything but you know
01:11:54your heart and your spirit are part of
01:11:55that health and getting people to
01:11:57experience more of that aspect of their
01:11:59life changes everything it changes the
01:12:01meaning of their life it change it makes
01:12:03them more fulfilled and I'm really
01:12:05interested not in just solving a problem
01:12:07I'm interested in extraordinary quality
01:12:09of life most people don't have it most
01:12:11people are overweight most people don't
01:12:12have great relationships most people are
01:12:14not financially sound I mean I'm not
01:12:16dumb but there are few that are and I
01:12:19prefer to study the few who do and
01:12:20expand the few who they do to the
01:12:22largest number I possibly can and then
01:12:24the rest I try to take care of by you
01:12:26know providing food for a billion you
01:12:28know meals as I've done or you know I'm
01:12:30now working on 100 billion meal
01:12:32challenge to give you an idea because we
01:12:33did our I got fed when I was a little
01:12:35kid 11 years old with no food changed my
01:12:38entire life but the biggest change was
01:12:40not the food it was like strangers care
01:12:43that belief came out of that meal yeah
01:12:46and because of that belief I promised
01:12:47myself I'd do it for somebody else
01:12:49someday so when I was 17 I fed two
01:12:51families and then four then eight then
01:12:5212 and then just kept multiplying till I
01:12:55got to 4 million a year 2 million From
01:12:56Me 2 million from my Foundation then I
01:12:58was writing money Master the game you
01:13:00know interviewing 50 of the smartest
01:13:02Financial people in the world Ray doio
01:13:04Carl icon you know Paul tutor Jones
01:13:06Warren Buffett and while I'm doing it I
01:13:08saw they cut the food stamp program it's
01:13:10now called Snap and they cut it by6
01:13:13billion dollars which means every family
01:13:15on Earth or not on Earth in the United
01:13:17States that need support would have to
01:13:19go without one week's worth of food
01:13:21unless People Like Us jumped in so I was
01:13:23like how many people I fed in my
01:13:25lifetime from the bridal I started and I
01:13:26found out it was 42 million I was really
01:13:28excited about that and I thought what if
01:13:30I did that in a year what I've done my
01:13:32whole life in a year did 50 million I
01:13:33was like what if I did a 100 million a
01:13:34year what 100 million meals for a decade
01:13:37did a billion meals and I'm proud to
01:13:39tell you I did it in eight years not 10
01:13:41years we finished it this last year but
01:13:43now the issue is bigger around the world
01:13:46you know Governor Beasley who with just
01:13:48retired from the world food program at
01:13:50the UN is now a partner of mine in this
01:13:52area and he called me up one day Dan he
01:13:53goes it's unbelievable what you've done
01:13:55here but because the 80 million people
01:13:57normally looking for a meal that are
01:13:59have food insecurity is 350 million this
01:14:01year no one's talking about it the ukine
01:14:04war has basically shut down the Bread
01:14:06Basket you know the WF doesn't want
01:14:09people to use you know you know the
01:14:12pieces for fertilization that we
01:14:14normally use right they don't want us to
01:14:15use that and most of it comes out of
01:14:17Russia so what are we going to do well
01:14:19people are dying all over the place so
01:14:21we got together and I opened up the
01:14:23Forbes philanthropy event and I brought
01:14:25him in and myself and we both spoke and
01:14:28I said look and we're looking for 99
01:14:29more people like me I'm I'm not a
01:14:31multibillionaire and I did this I did
01:14:34100 million meals a year for 10 years
01:14:36like there's got to be 99 more people
01:14:38that can do that we need about 70
01:14:39billion meals while they get the
01:14:41infrastructure in to deal with things
01:14:43over the next 10 years I'm proud to tell
01:14:44you we're up to 60 billion meals in a
01:14:46year so it's like what's possible can
01:14:49change when you educate people what's
01:14:51possible can change when you do
01:14:52something people don't think is possible
01:14:55and that's what I'm trying to do I'm not
01:14:56um pretending to have all the answers
01:14:58but there are people that have the
01:14:59answers whether it's Health whether it's
01:15:01Finance I want to go to them and I want
01:15:03to take what they have and bring it to
01:15:04people now not 20 years from now when
01:15:06their clinician finally gets up to
01:15:09speed that's amazing by the way and uh
01:15:12thank you and and and congratulations
01:15:14and thank you I don't even have to thank
01:15:16you because I can see it's done more for
01:15:18you probably than anybody who's gotten a
01:15:20meal it's amazing I I love it are you
01:15:22kidding me I've never I get to meet some
01:15:24of these people but very few of them out
01:15:25of billion meals but feeding America has
01:15:27been my partner by the way and they're
01:15:29the best organization I've ever worked
01:15:30with and I I've worked with tons they're
01:15:32really efficient here in the US but now
01:15:34it's a bigger issue overseas as you know
01:15:36that's what we're working on now but so
01:15:38so you've hit on something that you know
01:15:39has been driving both Mark and I crazy
01:15:43and maybe you can help us with it in
01:15:44Silicon Valley so in Silicon Valley you
01:15:47know with the advance of AI there's all
01:15:49these kind of people who I don't want
01:15:54who are worried about uh you know what
01:15:57AI might automate and then their answer
01:16:00um is this idea of universal basic
01:16:02income where it's like oh like we all
01:16:04make it so only us Smarties have to work
01:16:08and then you regular people will just
01:16:10make it so you don't have to work and
01:16:12you both he and I are like wow that's a
01:16:15bad idea um you're going to take away
01:16:17everybody's purpose and and by the way
01:16:20you know AI hasn't so far taken away any
01:16:22jobs it doesn't look like so we we'll
01:16:23see how that goes or or the net on a net
01:16:26basis um but you know kind of countering
01:16:30that argument is is is tricky in the
01:16:34sense that uh you point out things I'm
01:16:38like you know we have Ubi for Native
01:16:40Americans it's called the reservation
01:16:42system and it's horrible and you know
01:16:44it's $65,000 a year a piece and it does
01:16:46not do anything you know it's the worst
01:16:49thing we probably ever did uh and so but
01:16:53you know people go well like what are
01:16:55you going to do and how do you think
01:16:57about like like what are we going to do
01:16:59in these job transitions as they happen
01:17:02because you know even if we're net plus
01:17:05jobs we'll probably you know transition
01:17:07out of some old jobs as we always have
01:17:09with Automation and get to the new ones
01:17:12and how do you think about that and
01:17:14making sure people have purpose you know
01:17:16when they lose their job and have to get
01:17:19retrained I think it's one of the
01:17:20biggest issues that no one's paying
01:17:21attention to I asked President Obama
01:17:24about this years ago and he's like oh
01:17:25it's not going to change that fast and I
01:17:27said hey look at what just happened you
01:17:30know in the you know the world financial
01:17:32crisis the number of jobs of people just
01:17:35driving Ubers taxis and trucks let's
01:17:37just assume at some point in the near
01:17:39future you're going to have the
01:17:41opportunity to not have a truck driver
01:17:43who needs health care and who will
01:17:45complain and can only drive eight hours
01:17:47a day Max and takes lots of insurance
01:17:49and now you got a truck that you can
01:17:50depreciate and can drive 24 hours a day
01:17:53without having an accident the insurance
01:17:55is lower I said that's 8 million jobs
01:17:58that's the entire number of jobs that
01:17:59were just lost during that time that
01:18:01make the economy look like it's going
01:18:02through the floor that's one category
01:18:04and I and I said you're telling me
01:18:06there's no he goes well we've all
01:18:08discussed it with a bunch of experts and
01:18:10no one thinks the change going to happen
01:18:11that fast maybe he's right maybe maybe
01:18:13there won't be but there's going to be
01:18:14disruption there's no question for
01:18:16certain jobs and we're not preparing
01:18:17these people at all and what happens is
01:18:20just giving somebody money is never
01:18:22enough because they need that meaning
01:18:24and once they get the money they'll want
01:18:25more of that money I'm not suggesting
01:18:27yeah you know taxing let's say some of
01:18:29these Technologies separately and
01:18:31providing some core resources for those
01:18:32in need Mak sense or somebody's
01:18:34displaced that money goes for education
01:18:37for something new I think that's
01:18:39interesting but paying people to do
01:18:41nothing um I know there's some studies
01:18:43where they'll say look how well this
01:18:44worked but they're pretty rare and
01:18:46they're not long-term and so I'm I'm per
01:18:48very skeptical personally I think we all
01:18:51well there's six needs all human beings
01:18:53have in my experience and that's how I
01:18:54manage and work with people it's like I
01:18:56see which of those needs are kind of
01:18:58their top two driving force so we all
01:19:00need certainty Comfort we can avoid pain
01:19:02have pleasure but if you're totally
01:19:04certain every moment you'd be bored out
01:19:05of your mind so we need uncertainty we
01:19:07need variety to feel alive too much
01:19:09variety people freak out too much
01:19:11certainty they're bored out of their
01:19:12mind and there isn't like a lukewarm
01:19:14middle it's more your ability to meet
01:19:15both needs simultaneously there's the
01:19:18need for significance to feel unique to
01:19:20feel special to feel important you can
01:19:22do that by taking
01:19:23risks and trying to build something but
01:19:25then if you fail you look like you're
01:19:27worthless and unloved and so most people
01:19:29found tearing somebody else down is a
01:19:31much faster way to feel like I'm moving
01:19:33up it's an illusion it doesn't last but
01:19:35it's become a driving force in social
01:19:37media for example you can have
01:19:39significance by how you dress you can
01:19:40have significance by having certain
01:19:42pronouns you can have significance by
01:19:44knowing sports scores many you have
01:19:45significance by making more money
01:19:47there's so many ways to get significance
01:19:49the only question is do the ways you do
01:19:50it Empower you or disempower you and the
01:19:52people people around you fourth we need
01:19:54connection and love everyone needs it
01:19:57some people settle for connection
01:19:58because Love's too scary and then the
01:20:00spiritual needs are number four five we
01:20:01got to grow we grow or we die and number
01:20:03six we got to contribute so if I don't
01:20:06work I need something else that's going
01:20:08to call me past my certainty get me to
01:20:11step into the world of uncertainty which
01:20:13is where all aliveness comes from
01:20:16aliveness comes from uncertainty not
01:20:19knowing that's where growth gets
01:20:21stimulated by trying something you
01:20:22haven't before we need to find better
01:20:24ways to feel significant by doing
01:20:26something useful for others as opposed
01:20:28to demanding significance by you calling
01:20:30me King Tony because that's my new
01:20:32pronoun or whatever it is that you for
01:20:35right you know sire call meire my
01:20:39pronoun proun right you know so it's
01:20:41like lots of ways the question you got
01:20:42to ask yourself is do they serve or not
01:20:44and I think our society has become very
01:20:46driven by certainty and by significance
01:20:49but it's significance at any cost and so
01:20:52I can change the colors the pictures and
01:20:54the way I look I can tear somebody else
01:20:57down look good I can put up a flag of
01:20:58another country and I don't know
01:20:59anything about it but suddenly I can
01:21:01virtue signal and I'm a good person and
01:21:04so all that I think is starting to wear
01:21:06out I hope because we're all you know
01:21:08we're all dying for something deeper
01:21:10where you know reality TV is is
01:21:13so it's like is there anything real left
01:21:16in our society and I think when there's
01:21:18something real people tend to move
01:21:19towards it that's been one of the one of
01:21:22the great things help me in terms of
01:21:23reaching mass number of people because
01:21:25you can't fake it when you're doing
01:21:27something 12 hours a day four straight
01:21:29days and nights giving you every ounce
01:21:31of your soul people start to go hey this
01:21:33is the real thing and then they step up
01:21:35because you go first and maybe Mark like
01:21:37how do you think about um this
01:21:40whole oh people don't need to work you
01:21:43know perhaps we should hand them money
01:21:46um or you know this purpose in life and
01:21:51you know if not work then what yeah so
01:21:53the the Romans had a fundamental
01:21:55conception of politics and it had to do
01:21:57with a relationship between Patron and
01:21:58client um and so the definition of
01:22:01success in Roman politics was as a
01:22:02politician you wanted to be a patron to
01:22:04as many clients as possible um and of
01:22:06course it's a dependency relationship
01:22:08right the clients are dependent on the
01:22:09patron um and so there basically that I
01:22:12think that's the pattern that keeps for
01:22:13keeps keeps keeps uh keeps reestablish
01:22:16reestablishing itself which is again if
01:22:18you're a politician you know what do you
01:22:19really want you want you want a
01:22:20dependent voter base um and you want to
01:22:22basis dependent on on on on laress and
01:22:25things that you can do for them and then
01:22:26you know ultimately that resolves to uh
01:22:28you know to handouts um and so there
01:22:30there's a very natural inclination in
01:22:31the political system to you know
01:22:33basically let's say Farm the the
01:22:35citizenry um and I mean Farm in the
01:22:36sense of farm animals yeah um like it's
01:22:39just it's a very natural motivation on
01:22:40the part of politicians and so it's a
01:22:42it's a um you know and look it's one of
01:22:44these things where you know if if people
01:22:45have the negative psychology we've been
01:22:47talking about you know the idea of
01:22:48basically getting free handout sounds
01:22:50pretty good um you know when people have
01:22:52you know real self-respect and real
01:22:53Pride um you know they they they find
01:22:55that to be very offensive um which which
01:22:57is very dangerous uh from a political
01:22:58standpoint because then they you know
01:23:00they're not going to just always vote
01:23:01for the person who's given them the
01:23:02handout um and so as as with all these
01:23:05things it it comes back to one's own
01:23:07view of oneself um and you know whether
01:23:09whether whether one is is proud of of
01:23:11what of what you of what one is doing
01:23:13with with with your life Tony what do
01:23:15you have coming up next I got a lot of
01:23:18things but one thing I've done since the
01:23:21very beginning of covid is uh when
01:23:23people are stuck at home I was like you
01:23:25know how do I reach people and have an
01:23:26impact and so I decided I don't want
01:23:28money or time or travel to get in the
01:23:30way so I built the studio and we started
01:23:32doing these events for three days uh and
01:23:36we called a summit and it's called time
01:23:37to rise basically rise above all the BS
01:23:40to own yourself again regardless of
01:23:42what's happening with the economy or the
01:23:43environment what do you do with your
01:23:44body your mind your emotions your
01:23:45relationships and it's just three hours
01:23:47a day for three days there's zero charge
01:23:50and uh and we really have a blast last
01:23:52year we had 1.8 million people join us
01:23:55to give you an idea for those three days
01:23:57so it's coming up on January 25th
01:23:59through the 27th J 25th to the 27th and
01:24:02then if they go to time toise summit.com
01:24:05time toise summit.com and then I have a
01:24:07new book coming out it's my third in the
01:24:09financial area one that I think you guys
01:24:11would appreciate this one is called the
01:24:13Holy Grail of investing and it's really
01:24:15based on the fact that for you know the
01:24:18last 35 years as I'm sure you know the
01:24:20S&P has been up what 9 .2 and the
01:24:23average private Equity has been up
01:24:2614.2 so literally 50% better compounded
01:24:29per year for all those years so I
01:24:31interviewed 13 uh of the best in the
01:24:33world people you know uh like you know
01:24:36Robert Smith from Vista Partners who
01:24:38managers hundred billion dollar venod
01:24:40Koso who's in your category obviously uh
01:24:43Ramsey from Veritas uh Michael Kim you
01:24:46know is considered uh the the the king
01:24:49basically of Korea of you know he got
01:24:51the largest fund over there in Korea
01:24:53doing Chinese and Asia and I brought
01:24:55their principles toly but I also wanted
01:24:57people to see not only these people
01:24:59producing 20% plus compounded returns
01:25:02some of them more than that for decades
01:25:04but I want them to see that they could
01:25:06get in the game I I only got into this
01:25:08little bit ago but I own a piece of 65
01:25:11not funds but the actual firms
01:25:13themselves you know you can be a general
01:25:15partner or a limited partner limited
01:25:17partner investors a lot of times it's
01:25:18like you guys pretty hard to get in
01:25:20there and I was frustrated by that
01:25:22initially and then I found out there
01:25:23were ways to actually own a piece of the
01:25:25businesses so we own 65 of some of the
01:25:28biggest silver lak starwoods this uh
01:25:32you it's pretty exciting because you get
01:25:34the 2 and2 as a partner in this right
01:25:37alongside it so I explain that explain
01:25:40how you can now own a part small portion
01:25:41of a sports team where you know they've
01:25:43averaged 18% versus the 9.2 over the
01:25:46last 10 years and they're not just
01:25:48putting butts in seats now now it's a
01:25:49different game or private credit where
01:25:52you know in as a compliment to bonds
01:25:55where people can see two to three times
01:25:57returns so the book is all about those
01:25:59principles and tools and it comes out on
01:26:01I believe February 13th actually so
01:26:04hopefully people will join us they can
01:26:05go to time to rise.com and there's no
01:26:07charge for it I'd love to serve them all
01:26:09right and that that sounds exciting I
01:26:11think I'll be joining that so thank you
01:26:14again with that since we've taken so
01:26:17much of Tony's time um and by the way I
01:26:20I I've enjoyed it tremendously thank you
01:26:21so much for coming on thank you guys I
01:26:23really appreciate your time and your
01:26:24energy and more importantly I appreciate
01:26:26what you're do in the world blessings to
01:26:27you all all right thank you so much and
01:26:29right back at you thank you thank you
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