00:00it is on us in the space industry to
00:03solve this problem getting people
00:04connected is just of such enormous value
00:07why is inflate Wi-Fi so bad today it's a
00:09very good question the problem actually
00:11got worse how is that possible when you
00:13get access to the internet you are
00:15getting access to the sum total of the
00:17world's knowledge yes a lot of problems
00:19to solve it's like adding an extra Lane
00:21on the highway right oh yes that's there
00:24a great analogy yes I think we're going
00:25to steal that the biggest thing to be
00:27concerned about is orbital debris
00:28building in space is just inherently
00:30hard it is a a new golden age of space
00:33for sure 2022 was a record year for the
00:39186 successful rocket launches that is
00:4341 more than in 2021 so what are all
00:46these Rockets bringing to orbit and who
00:49whether public or private is on the
00:51other side of that market listen in as
00:53we talk to John gmar today co-founder of
00:56astonis as we discuss this new golden
00:59era of space John himself has been in
01:01the industry for decades co-founding the
01:04commercial space flight Federation in
01:062006 and as of May eston sent its first
01:10commercial satellite into orbit and as
01:13John now builds his own satellites he
01:16reflects on the transition from the
01:17government shuttle era where satellites
01:19were literally the size of school buses
01:21and lasted for decades to something much
01:24different plus astris has a full Falcon
01:279 booked for later this year as they
01:30hope to bring more connectivity to the
01:32mindboggling 4 billion people that still
01:35do not have internet access that is 4
01:38billion people who cannot watch this
01:39video all right prepare for
01:43liftoff as a reminder the content here
01:46is for informational purposes only
01:48should not be taken as legal business
01:49tax or investment advice or be used to
01:52evaluate any investment or security and
01:54is not directed at any investors or
01:55potential investors in any a6z fund for
02:11disclosures John welcome to the show ah
02:15thank you for having me so you've been
02:16in space for a while uh I think what was
02:18in 2006 you helped found the commercial
02:21space flight Federation why do we start
02:24there what caused you to want to be a
02:25part of that way back then like what did
02:27you see at the time oh sure uh I mean
02:30that was back when the this new industry
02:33was just getting off the ground right
02:35people were figuring out that they could
02:36with private dollars go and start a new
02:40space company and actually do something
02:41useful it's sort of a you know a non
02:44giant government blank check you know
02:47amount of money so I I wanted to find
02:50you know basically the place where the
02:52action was happening and I was very
02:55lucky I I I actually found it you know I
02:57I went and looked around and and I
03:00started as an intern at the exerprise
03:02foundation you know X prise at the time
03:05uh it's this nonprofit organization that
03:08develops these prizes for technological
03:10breakthroughs yeah and uh at the time
03:13that you know the the big prize was this
03:1510 million do prize for a private
03:18company to launch people into space yeah
03:20and uh the company ended up winning that
03:23that that group uh and that technology
03:25ended up becoming uh what is now vir
03:27Galactic still today right so like that
03:29really kicked off this you know this new
03:31wave of of activity in the in the space
03:33industry but uh you know one of the
03:36projects that I worked on was this new
03:38Industry Group uh the commercial space
03:41light Federation and that try to decide
03:43as an industry what are the important
03:45policies what are things we we want you
03:48know whether it's industry standards
03:50that cut across you know all these
03:51companies yeah or it's public policy
03:54okay and all the organizations at the
03:55time were basically run by the major
04:01companies so it was really really the
04:05basic idea was just like let's have our
04:07organization uh you know no big defense
04:10contractors allowed and figure out what
04:13policies make the most sense for this
04:15new you know really emerging set of
04:18companies world right I mean maybe you
04:19can speak to that transition because
04:22really for for a few decades it really
04:24was the government that was the primary
04:27home and you also mentioned this in
04:28these large contra factors but those
04:31were the entities driving space forward
04:34right and now in 2023 things look pretty
04:37different we've gone from the shuttle
04:38model to something with a lot more
04:41startups a lot more grittiness
04:43Innovation probably more failures along
04:45the way but also it's just a totally
04:47different environment that went from the
04:49government now also to something you
04:51know these private companies yeah oh it
04:55it it really is I mean I I like to think
04:57of it as the basically three eras of uh
05:02of space flight right there was the
05:04initial Apollo era where we were in it
05:08was this massive almost monolithic
05:11government program and everything was
05:14huge and epic in scale by Design because
05:17we were trying to compete against the
05:19Soviet Union then we entered into this
05:22era in the in the 80s basically with the
05:25space shuttle things got very entrenched
05:26with these Cost Plus contracts yes and
05:29and the the major Aerospace defense
05:32contractors were basically able to lock
05:34in you know these these programs at a
05:37cost of billions of dollars and they
05:39were just not going anywhere it was like
05:42you know the space shuttle flew for you
05:45know almost three decades and the crazy
05:48thing about the space shuttle is that it
05:49was basically a government ride to
05:53space that was totally you know was
05:55owned and operated by the government but
05:57private companies sometimes had no
06:00their satellites up on a on a space
06:02shuttle to get into space and so it'd be
06:05like if we had if there were some you
06:07know government owned and operated Fleet
06:10of cargo container ships that would take
06:12your cargo you know that you
06:15wanted that you you could take yes there
06:18I mean so there there were certainly
06:19companies that tried over the over the
06:21course of those decades uh to to come up
06:23with new uh private Vehicles including
06:27in you know in the 90s there was there
06:28was actually a huge number of of
06:30startups that Tred to do new um you know
06:33new rockets basically but they were in
06:35effect competing with this Government
06:37monopoly it's just like a weird you know
06:40that's just a very weird place to be so
06:42um I'm not sure that the the conditions
06:44were really right until we got uh the
06:48end of that era which I would I would
06:50demarcate as like the retirement of the
06:52space sh and that retirement it took
06:56took many years for the retirement to
06:57actually happen it started with the
07:00disaster and that was finally when
07:02people said okay you know we've been
07:04flying this thing for almost 25 years
07:07it's time to retire it and then it took
07:08several more years after that so you
07:10really had all these ingredients of
07:13individuals who had made enough money in
07:16the.com boom and had this passion for
07:18space to go and take a run at it on the
07:20government side you had the retirement
07:22of the special coming up on the horizon
07:24as this basically this huge opportunity
07:27that those companies could then step
07:28into yeah yeah so you're kind of calling
07:30out a few things it sounds like the
07:31retirement of the the government
07:33programs but also a wave of dollars
07:36coming in from another industry were
07:38there any other changes that have really
07:40brought us to like this what feels like
07:42a golden age of space Innovation is it
07:45like regulatory changes is it uh
07:48technological innovation that's unlocked
07:51anything else like anything you call out
07:52there is like wow maybe people don't
07:54realize that all of these kind of
07:56different inflection points different
07:58waves coming together have resulted in
08:00what was it last year the most the most
08:02satellites being launched you know on
08:04record and just a lot of things
08:07happening yes so there were the other
08:09one was just the technologies that were
08:11available that were starting to become
08:13available right so for small Sal to be
08:15possible you really needed this
08:17combination of Technologies to all come
08:20together right one of them was actually
08:22just lithium ion batteries yeah like so
08:26the old satellites used to have lead
08:28acid batteries there were absolutely
08:30these massive massive heavy things right
08:33you know we we all know about the
08:35benefits of that here on Earth because
08:37we have one of those in every you know
08:39every now every device that we carry but
08:42uh but actually also made a huge deal in
08:44being us being able to shrink the size
08:46of satellites um and then there's also
08:48you know new uh chips that became
08:50available at a lower cost you know it
08:53just Mor's law in action there were some
08:55things that just got to the point where
08:56there was enough compute for a loow
08:57enough price that it made sense and then
08:59also some advances on the propulsion
09:01side so there's really like a whole
09:03basket of technologies that started to
09:05come together and let uh companies like
09:08one of the first ones was
09:10Skybox uh go and say hey we can at at
09:13actually surprisingly low cost build a
09:16small satellite that will do this very
09:19useful thing have a lot of capability in
09:21a small package in a way that just you
09:23know would have never been capable
09:26before before you know would have taken
09:27a huge satellite you know uh the size of
09:29a school bus and uh and be able to raise
09:33Venture Capital dollars on that right
09:36and so that was a that was a pretty you
09:39know that was a pretty big change can
09:41you just kind of help us get a sense of
09:43size here so you said like the old
09:45satellites were maybe as big as a school
09:47bus yes when we're talking about these
09:49smaller satellites like how how big of a
09:51difference are we talking about yeah so
09:52when we talk about small salades you
09:54know it could be anything from a a cube
09:57s which is like a bread box up to you
10:00know something the size of a of a a
10:02large home appliance right so like a
10:04kitchen range um you know or a mini
10:07fridge right SC satellites are about the
10:09size of a mini mini fridge our
10:11satellites at astrus are a little bit
10:12larger than that similar class uh you
10:15know what we call Micro satellites the
10:18big satellites that historically cost
10:22several hundred million dollar each um
10:25you know they are the size of a of a
10:27school bus if not like a double decker
10:29you know oh my gosh big big red London
10:31double decker bus yeah so it's a huge
10:34difference you decided in 2015 to found
10:38Asis and so you'd by that point been in
10:40this industry for at least a decade and
10:43gotten to see how this is evolving all
10:45of the exciting opportunities and so
10:47tell us a little bit about why
10:49specifically you've chosen to tackle the
10:52the unique domain and Lane that you have
10:54on these like smaller uh geost
10:57stationary orbit satellites like why
10:59that of all of the different things you
11:01could have chosen to do totally yeah I
11:03mean I I I knew that I I I wanted to go
11:06and you know do something really
11:09disruptive in space I mean I I knew that
11:11there was and and there still is just
11:13massive amounts of value to be had in
11:16doing things with these new approaches
11:17small satellites um and doing them at a
11:21much much lower cost than these you know
11:24historic big satellites which were
11:26mostly done these government you know
11:27big Cost Plus contract billion dollar
11:29contracts the thing about uh Gio and
11:33some of these other higher orbits is
11:36they they are hard you know they they're
11:38hard to operate in and they're harder to
11:40get to so it makes sense that when all
11:44those those basket you know all those
11:46different Technologies came together
11:48that allowed people to build small
11:50satellites really for the first time
11:52that they would start in in lower torbit
11:54in Leo right that that perfectly makes
11:57sense but uh historically Gio is
12:01actually the most valuable orbit okay
12:03that is where the bulk of money has been
12:06spent to put satellites into orbit uh I
12:09mean it's hard to know the exact numbers
12:11because a lot of is classified so these
12:13are like multi-billion dollar classified
12:15programs I mean multiple billions of
12:17dollars per satellite for some of these
12:20classified satellites right so uh you
12:23know it could be in the hundreds of
12:24billions of dollars we no one knows the
12:26exact number but it is a big number that
12:29has been spent putting satellites up
12:31into goo and it's been to enormous
12:35economic benefit uh one of the biggest
12:37money makers in uh in in the history of
12:40all of space was broadcast satellite TV
12:44and that is that was all done with these
12:46large very expensive Geo satellites
12:49right so you know there's enormous
12:51amount of value up there and in this in
12:53this real estate which is this belt that
12:56uh surrounds the Earth that at uh at go
13:00and you know we just figured okay
13:01there's got to be a way to do this
13:03better um and nobody else was doing it
13:05you know that it's also sort of uh an
13:08important thing right it's like when you
13:09see that magnitude of opportunity and no
13:11one is doing it figure out figure out
13:14why figure out why no one else is doing
13:15it and and take a stab at it but I mean
13:17to that point I guess kind of two
13:19questions there one why was no one doing
13:21this and probably related to this like
13:23tell us a little bit more about the
13:25difference between lower orbit which is
13:27where a lot of different companies are
13:29now launching satellites into and Gio
13:33which is where you've chosen to go like
13:35what is the difference there and again
13:37like why was no one else doing this yeah
13:39totally I so um the reason no one else
13:42was was doing it is that it was hard
13:44right it it it is um uh up at this High
13:48orbit where you're actually right in the
13:51thick of what we call the vanel
13:53radiation belts so the satellites are
13:56just in swimming in this sea of of uh of
14:00radiation all the time uh these these
14:03belts have basically trapped all of this
14:05radiation that's come in from space this
14:07actually why Earth is such a pleasant
14:09place to live because we have this
14:11magnetic field that then uh ends up uh
14:15basically being Earth's deflector
14:16Shields so that's very beneficial for
14:18all of us on Earth very
14:21convenient uh thankfully but it traps a
14:25lot of these particles you know any of
14:27these particles that are ionized they
14:30get trapped there like a magnetic bottle
14:33right and so there's just this soup of
14:36uh radiation and and these I particles
14:39that satelles up in these high orbits
14:41are are swimming in so it is hard I mean
14:44it is the radiation effects that we have
14:47to design to uh and then we have to
14:49design all our Electronics to qualify
14:51them you know really make sure that they
14:54were going to work in this radiation
14:56environment is just a massive addition
14:59Challenge on top of building you know
15:01all the normal challenges of building
15:03small satellites and building something
15:04that can that will work in space which
15:06is already you know that that's already
15:08hard like that you know anything in
15:09Space is really not for the faint of
15:11heart but uh you know clearly it just is
15:15worth it when once you're up any asset
15:17you can get up in that high orbit is
15:20just becomes this incredibly valuable
15:21thing because you can park it over a
15:23country or part of the world and provide
15:26you know a service with just that on
15:29so it ends up being this like
15:31structurally uh very low cost approach
15:34uh covering an area like a like a like
15:36an entire country with broadband
15:38internet yeah but there is just clearly
15:41this massive value to be had up in these
15:44higher orbits and GE Station orbit uh
15:48and so you know somebody should should
15:50someone do somebody should go after it
15:52yeah what gave you the confidence that
15:54the technology was there because you
15:56said space was hard already and that and
15:58you know now you're taking it to this
16:00you know n squar let's say and so was
16:03there any evidence per se that you were
16:05like oh I I do see how certain
16:07Technologies are advancing even further
16:09or what give you the confidence to say
16:11we can actually make this smaller
16:14iterative oh for sure um well I would
16:18say there was a little bit maybe of of
16:21Hub there um I would this is sort of a
16:25classic case we we you know we didn't
16:27know what we did didn't didn't know when
16:29we started the company back in 2015 and
16:32and yeah in uh in in my apartment uh
16:35myself and my and my co-founder Ryan um
16:39we basically looked at how quickly and
16:43uh you know sort of Simply could we pull
16:45together all the right pieces for um you
16:48know one of these satellites and
16:49certainly at first plush it you know you
16:52could go and go out to this this great
16:55space economy that we have now we've got
16:58three different vendors we could buy
16:59this component from we've got this you
17:01know we could go get this I think that
17:04you know what we didn't realize was
17:07really the magnitude of that gap between
17:11Leo and Geo especially on the radiation
17:13environment a lot of the components that
17:16you could buy were really designed for
17:17Leo satellites and once we dug into it
17:22would just not work for us in Gio you
17:24know and and that's you know that's not
17:26through any fault of the uh of the
17:29vendors is just designed for a different
17:30thing so we ended up it it ended up
17:33being a lot more work to find you know
17:36really like and sometimes it was like a
17:37needle and a Haack to find either the
17:40right component that that we could use
17:43or uh we ended up having to design our
17:46own you know and and run with run with
17:49that because we just there was there's
17:51nothing out there that would work okay
17:52so let's talk about some of those
17:53satellites uh including the one that's
17:55already up there you've chosen
17:58specifically again to be in goo and to
18:00have these smaller satellites that
18:03Target um internet yes uh or provide
18:06internet to folks in specific regions
18:09yes why why that of all the different
18:11functionalities that satellites can
18:13offer and then also just like tell me a
18:15little bit more about this question of
18:17just how many people on earth actually
18:19don't have access to Internet to be
18:21clear I I think this is the most
18:24valuable thing that we can do in space
18:27right there are a lot of things you can
18:28only do in space just from having this
18:30vanish point being that high and looking
18:33down and seeing you know a good chunk of
18:34the Earth or you know basically this
18:37this whole Earth view but getting people
18:39connected is just of such enormous value
18:43right it's like really changes people's
18:45lives yeah uh being able to have access
18:47to healthcare information being able to
18:49get education educate themselves when
18:52you get access to the internet you are
18:53getting access to the sum total of the
18:56world's knowledge yeah in one
18:59we we do forget that yes yes we did you
19:02know it doesn't get lost now in the you
19:04know the Instagram era but if you had
19:08nothing and no access to the internet
19:11having then that door opened you know to
19:15the entire you know suddenly having
19:17access to the entire world's knowledge
19:19on any topic you could imagine right I
19:21mean talk about a massive enabler for
19:25yeah people to improve their lives you
19:27know economic growth all the rest it's
19:29it's a huge deal so you know that
19:32combines with I think the place where
19:35we're at with connectivity today around
19:37the world I think we have essentially
19:40reached the people we're going to reach
19:42with fiber fiber laying fiber is
19:45enormously expensive and difficult right
19:49in in a lot of countries it's it's done
19:51uh by trenching and then there's all
19:54these other you know complicating
19:55factors rights of way like someone's
19:57you're going through someone's land and
19:59especially in a world where people are
20:00mobile first it's even more challenging
20:03because what you really want is you want
20:05cell towers just everywhere building the
20:07cell tower is relatively cheap compared
20:09to the value it's going to create of
20:10getting those people in that area
20:12connected right very cheap uh really all
20:15of the the problem to be solved is in
20:19this connecting that cell tower to the
20:21internet that's what we call the the
20:22backfall problem um and so that is that
20:27is what we really iiz was this key
20:29problem to go and solve and uh so we
20:33have found a set of customers in
20:35countries around the world that uh are
20:39either Telos or service providers for
20:42those Telos who uh you know help them
20:45manage their cell towers that basically
20:47are buying this capacity in large
20:49quantities um and once we've got a
20:51satellite up there's a number of other
20:53customers that all you know spring up
20:55and one L on the highway right and up
20:58the the demand for it ends up filling
21:00out oh yes that's that's a great analogy
21:03yes I think I've got to steal that uh
21:09I as soon as you as soon as you add that
21:12extra land yes people just immediately
21:14fill it up so you know what we've seen
21:16is uh so it's not just the cell towers
21:18right it's also Enterprise customers who
21:21need connectivity for uh you know again
21:24large pipes for anything from that could
21:26be like hospitals and school tools to
21:29mining installations or you know things
21:32like oil and gas or uh you know there's
21:34sort of a whole gamut there the the key
21:39getting getting that extra Lane on the
21:41highway opened at the r price yes it has
21:45to obviously if you could you know you
21:47put up a bunch of capacity but it uh
21:49you're charging these very high prices
21:51where it just doesn't make any sense
21:53then no one's going to buy it on the
21:56other end of the spectrum if you put it
21:58up at a low enough price then the demand
22:01becomes almost effectively unlimited I
22:04mean people will at a loan of price
22:07point people will consume all the
22:10internet bandwidth that is available and
22:12then you know come back asking for more
22:14yeah and I think we are there I think
22:17you think the economics are there
22:19correct yes with the satellites that we
22:21have uh designed and begun
22:25building uh I think we are add that
22:28inflection point right um and you know I
22:31think we'll continue to get the price
22:33down and even get you know that that
22:35will get some number percentage of the
22:38unconnected uh population of the world
22:41online um and we'll you know as we get
22:43up to scale because we're going to
22:45massively scale what we're doing and
22:47build you know many of these satellites
22:49hundreds of these satellites then then
22:52we'll see you know we'll be able to get
22:53that economy a scale and get those
22:54prices down even lower and get even more
22:56people and you're not necessarily in
22:59some of these cases competing directly
23:01with oh there's all these other
23:02satellites or there's this fiber that's
23:04already been laid that we now trying to
23:07you know be more cost efficient then in
23:09many of these cases these people just
23:11don't have any internet right you're
23:13there's no competition at least you know
23:15I I watched your video about the
23:16Philippines I felt like that one in
23:18particular really drilled that notion
23:21where um I think it was like you know
23:23the Philippines has 7,000 islands like
23:26imagine laying fiber to all of those
23:28different remote locations maybe you can
23:30just speak to that and I think you said
23:32I I think one time in in an interview
23:34you said just like how is it that four
23:36billion people still don't have access
23:38to Internet and that also is like a true
23:41you know how how does that many how do
23:43that many humans not have that access so
23:46people used to talk about the other
23:48three billion that don't have access to
23:50the internet yeah when you know the
23:52internet was first really taking off now
23:54is the other four billion the problem
23:58how is that possible I know it yes how
24:01is that possible it doesn't seem right
24:03it seems actually quite uh it's quite
24:06astounding that it that somehow we not
24:08only failed to solve the problem the
24:09problem actually got worse over time not
24:12better it it just there's a limit to
24:14where it makes sense to run fiber or
24:16it's even physically possible to run
24:17fiber you know talk about people out on
24:19very remote places or out on
24:21Islands uh places that have very rough
24:24terrain around you know whether it's
24:26mountains or jungle or deserts those
24:30populations have been growing over time
24:33but we have failed to you know expand
24:35the reach of our fiber networks to to
24:38meet that so it is on us in the space
24:42industry to solve this problem I do not
24:44see any other means solving it I mean
24:47you know people have looked at like
24:48balloons and you know drones that are
24:51stay up for days at a time and are
24:53trying to beam down the internet those
24:56things are that's pretty tough to
24:57there's High operations costs of you
24:59know these things that you know you have
25:01to like deal with the weather and they
25:03have to be refueled and you bring them
25:04down and and that is a you know there's
25:07a there's possibly some solution there
25:09that could work I would love to see it
25:12but I really do think it's on us in the
25:14space business to solve this problem and
25:16and we have to you know we have to
25:17figure out how to do that you know we're
25:19talking about one of the world's most
25:20epic problems here so it's on the order
25:23of scale of solving the world's energy
25:26problems solving the world food problems
25:29you know it's just going to take a a
25:31basket of solutions to be able to solve
25:34solve this you know connectivity problem
25:36everywhere that people want so you kind
25:38of talked about the internet
25:39connectivity side of things but there's
25:41also some government buyers right of of
25:44these satellites and and their
25:45functionality so what is the government
25:47looking for in in those cases where they
25:50are the person you for or the entity
25:52buying the solution you know anyone in
25:56our position uh a company doing new
25:59technology for space uh for Aerospace
26:03you know there's a by almost by
26:06definition there are National Security
26:08implications of what we do so there is
26:12almost always uh you know I think if
26:14you're if you're doing things right
26:16there's almost always going to be this
26:17point where the US government comes in
26:19you know sort of knocks on your door and
26:20like hey what what what are you doing
26:22over there uh is this like a
26:24hypothetical KN on door show up to your
26:28yeah no we haven't no no they they use
26:32they they um you know they don't
26:35literally just show up at your show up
26:37at your office but uh for us in space
26:41force right so this in the US military
26:43saying hey there's real uh you know
26:46applications here for US National
26:48Security um what they're looking for is
26:50the same as I think anybody else they
26:52need uh reliable Communications there's
26:56many different flavors of that
26:58uh and and so if they're out operating
27:00in remote places and that you know that
27:03includes in the case of a conflict
27:05that's also just the Navy when they're
27:06out at Sea that's you know it's really
27:08across the board they need uh they need
27:12Broadband comps right and they need they
27:14need as much of it as they can get it's
27:17like it's never enough uh and to make
27:19sure they have that reliably they want
27:22that through multiple you know multiple
27:24channels multiple paths and ideally you
27:28get everything set up so that they could
27:30just seamlessly switch between different
27:32things you know no different than your
27:33cell phone right switching between your
27:36your home Wi-Fi and then switch to the
27:38cell tower when you leave your house
27:39right I mean they just want many many
27:41different options you know we are more
27:43than happy to to do our part and get
27:45some extra capability extra bandwidth up
27:48in Geo and I think what's different in
27:51our cases we can you know we can we can
27:54do this with small satellites that are
27:56that are um you know it's more of this
27:58swarm approach so with the traditional
28:01big Geo satellites cost a billion
28:04dollars each is only you know for each
28:07and geostationary you know you can
28:08divide up the World by region and over
28:12you know a given region that we might
28:13care about uh Asia for example there
28:17might only be a handful of these
28:18satellites that were totally dependent
28:20on yeah where it would be devastating if
28:23those satellites were were all taken out
28:26at the start of a conflict
28:28the you know the military communication
28:29satellites I think there's roughly a
28:31dozen that cover the whole world so
28:33they're spread around the whole world so
28:35you know over over Asia there's there's
28:37just a couple um so where space force
28:41got excited about I think our you know
28:44ability to to add value here is in
28:46taking this swarm approach up into that
28:50uh higher orbit you know deploying a
28:52large number of small satellites that
28:54can provide all kinds of uh communic A's
28:57capability and be you know more
29:00scattered around be more maneuverable
29:03yeah uh and you know it's just a much
29:05harder you know it's just more it would
29:07be a much harder thing to take out each
29:09one the invasion of Ukraine by Russia
29:13moment uh for I think all of us National
29:17Security but it was a huge deal for on
29:20the on the space uh side of things
29:24because Ukraine was using a large
29:27satellite for a lot of its
29:30Communications uh it's a satellite
29:33Kat over Europe uh it's commercial satl
29:36this is a it's being managed by a us uh
29:41us-based you know commercial
29:43company and the Russians took out that
29:46satellite on day one of the invasion
29:47with a massive uh Cyber attack and just
29:51in one Fell Swoop cut off coms across
29:55you know almost all of Ukraine M uh
29:58because they've been very heavily riing
30:00on just this one satellite and so the
30:02Russians I mean they really had this
30:05planned out you know to a te I mean they
30:07had it they had everything was ready to
30:10go uh very clearly they just you know
30:13it's like they just press one button and
30:15unleash these you know viruses and they
30:18uh and they basically they crippled the
30:20satellite so this is you know it's no
30:22longer this theoretical thing of like
30:24yeah will you know are these satellites
30:26important will our adversaries see them
30:29as targets or or take action against
30:31them it's like no we just had a uh we
30:34just had a you know we just saw a
30:35conflict and that's exactly what they
30:37did on on day one was take out one of
30:39these satellites you know when you think
30:41about a lot of what matters in a
30:43conflict of that type it's like just
30:46it's it's about speed and what happens
30:47in just the first you know few days
30:49first few hours the thing to remember
30:51about a lot of these large go assets is
30:55they're built to last for decad decades
30:58yes and so some of them have been up
30:59there that we're still you know we're
31:02still using them that were built with
31:0520-year-old technology and so they may
31:07have all kinds of uh vulnerabilities
31:10right that have since we've since
31:12figured out fixes on new satellites but
31:15you know it's just this this old model
31:17of putting up a satellite that's going
31:18to last for 20 years yeah you know it it
31:20just it's it's very concerning yeah it's
31:23almost like you're saying the lack of
31:27ation is a national security threat like
31:30oh yes 100% yes the the this this lack
31:34of refresh yes of new technology and
31:37taking into account all the advances uh
31:40you know is a real issue yeah you know
31:44satellite technology is just one of
31:47these last especially in especially in
31:50goo it's just one of these last places
31:53where we did not move to smaller
31:56Hardware that you could build build
31:57faster and iterate on more quickly and
31:59do a faster refresh of Technology right
32:01every every everything else that we use
32:04today across you know our lives you know
32:07in business and and at home has gotten
32:11smaller and smaller and you know faster
32:13and faster refresh the technology right
32:15it's kind of a great point because you
32:16imagine around the same time as some of
32:18these satellites went out that's when
32:19you had computers the size of a room and
32:22now we have computers the size of our
32:24phones that fit in our pocket but you're
32:25saying basically the satellite
32:27going up are still the size oh yes I
32:30mean if anything it's it's actually even
32:33crazier than that if anything they've
32:34gotten bigger and bigger over time
32:37instead of smaller and smaller they
32:38somehow you know got found themselves in
32:42this you know part of part of the design
32:45space where they got they fell into this
32:48you know local Optima descending down
32:51this uh down this plane and that's
32:54driving them to go bigger and bigger and
32:55bigger as time goes which and then yeah
32:59then we find out actually that has all
33:00kinds of problems satellites are getting
33:03bigger we're actually having more people
33:06with no internet um an interesting
33:09phenomena happening over this period yes
33:12it's a lot of problems to solve yes um
33:14on that note maybe we can talk just zoom
33:16out a little bit in terms of the
33:18satellite economy but really just all of
33:20the infastructure being built for space
33:23and maybe you could just share a little
33:25bit more about what you're excited about
33:27when it comes to like let's say the next
33:295 10 20 years what gets you excited and
33:32and what do you think maybe people are
33:33overlooking as potential in this
33:36industry I would say that you know we we
33:40don't know yet where these other sources
33:43of value are going to are going to be um
33:46you know it is asteroid mining going to
33:48be a a a massive business opportunity I
33:51think we're we're still figuring that
33:52out there's definitely enough things
33:55there that I think clearly we it's just
33:58gonna it is going to drive us further
34:00and further out into space and uh what I
34:04think it's really exciting is you know
34:06it you just continue to see the space
34:10economy just absolutely blossoming with
34:13larger you know larger and larger
34:15numbers of companies trying to you know
34:18fill in all of the fill in these
34:20different pieces MH uh there's talk of
34:23both government programs and private
34:25programs to put people back on the moon
34:28well all if if we're going to do that
34:30and whether it's government or private
34:33any kind of expedition of that type or
34:35setting up a lunar base is just going to
34:37need all kinds of other you know pieces
34:41of uh of of of this sort of overall
34:43economy and infrastructure right uh
34:45people are going to be operating on the
34:46lunar surface you're going to need uh
34:49Communications infrastructure that's
34:51something we've thought about and and
34:52looked at a little bit um the moon will
34:55need its own GPS system you're own the L
34:57surface you want to know where you are
34:58same thing as uh on the earth you want
35:00to be able to just pull up you know uh
35:03Google Maps navigate back to your litter
35:06base right and and have that uh have
35:08that uh position be uh um you know very
35:12precise thanks to a lunar GPS we're
35:14going to need all kinds of transport of
35:16of cargo uh you know fuel food water all
35:21of these things we're going to need uh
35:24cargo ships probably a variety of sizes
35:27that can take things either you know to
35:29lunar orbits or up and down from the
35:31lunar surface yeah there's a huge amount
35:34there there's just you know to me
35:35there's no question there's a ton of uh
35:38of opportunity for companies to go and
35:40and sort of you know car out a specific
35:43part of that ecosystem and be really
35:46really good at you know doing that
35:48specific thing as a service or building
35:50that yeah building that um that
35:53component yeah well it sounds like
35:54there's a lot of opportunity and maybe
35:56to close things off off because we do
35:58have a lot of people who are current
35:59Founders or maybe some of these future
36:01Founders carving out some slice of that
36:03market like you have to some extent made
36:06it to the other side you had your first
36:08launch earlier this year and you have
36:10another one coming later this year um I
36:13just want to ask you four satellites on
36:14it exactly so even bigger you have your
36:16dedicated Falcon 9 launch like that's
36:19that's pretty awesome like does it feel
36:20that way I just want you know as a
36:22person who spent the last eight years on
36:26this with maybe not full certainty that
36:30it would work out how did it feel like I
36:32watched that YouTube video that will
36:33link you know in the show notes of of
36:35that first launch in your team uh
36:37watching this go up and I was like
36:39getting emotional during it because I
36:41was like am I and I read the comments
36:42and other people are like why am I
36:43tearing up and it's like I guess it's
36:45because it is like quite the feet does
36:48it feel that way on your end as well
36:52yes yeah no there's a there's no
36:55question you know had sing a rocket go
36:56up that has uh you know a satellite on
36:59it especially you know you spent spent
37:01years getting to that point that is that
37:03is something special um the next one
37:06will be uh and then take it to the next
37:08level because you know with the
37:10dedicated launch it'll be our you know
37:13it' be the Astron logo on that rocket
37:17right yes uh and just knowing that that
37:19that rocket is going rocket is going up
37:21just just for us so that's a pretty big
37:25yeah that's going to be a pretty big
37:26bonus moment we should be celebrating
37:28this stuff like these are like
37:30monumentous moments not just astronomist
37:32but just sending this stuff up to to
37:34orbit so far away and doing it regularly
37:37now and doing it in a way where we're
37:39we're getting new functionality it's
37:40it's exciting it does feel like this new
37:42golden era maybe 50 years after the
37:44first it really is yeah it is a a new
37:47golden age of space for sure amazing
37:49well thank you John yeah thanks for
37:51having me appreciate it all right that
37:53is all for today's video however if you
37:56enjoyed it we have a lot more where that
37:58came from in fact we just released a f
38:01length episode with this guest on the
38:03a16z podcast so if you'd like to listen
38:07go check it out on your favorite podcast
38:08app of choice or we'll link it in the
38:11description below thank you so much for
38:13listening and we'll see you next
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