00:00they're like I want to be Rogan or I
00:01want to be Lex or I want to be Alex
00:03Cooper I want to do the next video but
00:05you can't do that Mr Beast talks about
00:06this all the time like you can't be a
00:08better Mr Beast and Mysteries if you
00:10listen to this podcast you're probably
00:11an avid podcast listener perhaps you've
00:14even dappled with the medium yourself
00:15and in a way it does feel like we're at
00:17this interesting inflection point where
00:19it's both easier and harder than ever to
00:21podcast it's easier than ever to create
00:23but it's harder than ever to stand out
00:25and I feel like this recent tweet from
00:26Tim Ferriss really encapsulates things
00:28he says I'm super grateful I started
00:31podcasting before you needed to produce
00:32a TV show to cut through all the noise
00:34and the algorithms April of next year
00:36will mark an average of 1.4 plus
00:38episodes per week for 10 years so look
00:41there are endless creators that we can
00:43and probably will bring in to talk about
00:45this subject but today we're talking to
00:47two creators that decided to go full
00:48force into the world of audio Peak
00:51pandemic you might know them at Syria
00:53monarthy from the good time show
00:55starting as a hobby the good time show
00:56has grown and since had many guests that
00:58you're probably familiar with people
01:00like Elon Musk Mark Zuckerberg Calvin
01:02Harris and Naomi Osaka so in this
01:04episode we get to hear from Cyril
01:05minarthy about their perspective on the
01:07world of audio and video we cover things
01:09like the sliding scale of entertainment
01:11information the difference between an
01:13audience and a community podcast
01:15analytics and how those are changing and
01:17even what Surya has learned from his
01:19front row experience at Twitter recently
01:20but first they say that choosing a
01:23co-founder is like choosing a spouse but
01:25in this case srio and arthi are already
01:27married so I decided to kick things off
01:29with a game to see who is pulling their
01:31weight in this podcast partnership place
01:33your bets as a reminder the content here
01:36is for informational purposes only
01:38should not be taken as legal business
01:39tax or investment advice or be used to
01:42evaluate any investment or security and
01:44is not directed at any investors or
01:46potential investors in any accz fund for
01:49more details please see a16z.com
02:04are husband and wife so I want to see a
02:06little bit of competition between the
02:08two of you see who's pulling the weight
02:10on on this podcast but um what we're
02:12going to do is I sent you both these
02:14buttons you guys have them in front of
02:19individually press the record button and
02:30all right we got it working okay what
02:32we're gonna do is a fun little trivia
02:34game about podcasting and creators and I
02:37want to see which one of you knows more
02:39about this universe you should have told
02:41me this right at the beginning he knows
02:43way more about this world than I do
02:47all right so I'm gonna read the question
02:50and then whoever hits their button first
02:52gets to answer if you get it wrong the
02:54other person can answer all right
02:57ready yeah all right okay so the first
03:00question the term podcast is a port
03:03Monto which means it's a combination of
03:04two different words what are those two
03:13the first one is iPod I okay
03:21uh broadcast yes yes arthy got it second
03:25question what year was this term coined
03:34uh well it says iPods it must be post
03:37iPod so I'm probably gonna say
03:402004. that's right everyone gets a point
03:43where one one okay genius okay all right
03:46question three we're gonna do these
03:48rapid fire according to an Edison report
03:50what is the most popular podcast genre
03:53comedy yes that's right oh
03:57all right two one okay so of the people
04:00who listen to podcasts according to
04:02infinite dial how many do they listen to
04:04per week how many shows three nope let's
04:09uh well I'm gonna say if somebody if
04:11somebody is Oh no just say it number
04:19okay you guys this is not cool so it's
04:24two two we've got three more all right
04:25how many downloads do you need per
04:28episode according to buzz Sprout to be
04:31in the top one percent of podcasts and
04:32just round that up to the thousand
04:384500 that's right yeah so that's exactly
04:42right it's 4 500. it was in the prep doc
04:44I know so I was testing who prepped oh
04:47that's unfair I I bring in spontaneity I
04:49I don't wanna spontaneous enough
04:51pressing the button fine let's get on
04:53with it all right two more who is the
04:55highest paid Creator in 2022
04:59say it Mr Beast that's right okay so we
05:04have one more question it's Ty
05:07at what age did Jimmy Donaldson aka Mr
05:11Beast start youtubing
05:14okay you did it first I'm gonna say 16.
05:19let's see who gets it closer arthy
05:21what's your guess how old is he now he's
05:2524 25 something like that
05:2814. that's closer he started at 13. okay
05:34all right arthy wins it was fun this
05:39segment needs some work I didn't talk
05:41about it afterwards if I'd wanted have
05:44been better but anyway all right who's
05:45with dignity yeah well no such thing so
05:48as I mentioned before we are going to be
05:49talking about all things audio creators
05:52communities social so why don't we just
05:56start out because both of you have been
05:57podcasting for the last couple years on
06:00your good time show which started in
06:012020 what made you start that show was
06:05it the fact that you wanted to build a
06:06network was it just for fun what was
06:08going through your mind at the time kind
06:10of a happy accident so this 2020
06:12December kind of the thick of the
06:14pandemic and we're all working from home
06:16we miss seeing our friends we used to go
06:18home to India once a year and we didn't
06:20do that that year and you know we
06:23basically thought wouldn't it be nice to
06:25kind of host like a virtual dinner party
06:28kind of thing because we used to host
06:30all like these Founders at home uh once
06:33a month or so and just have
06:34conversations about building companies
06:36and startups and stuff and we just
06:38didn't do that in person anymore so we
06:40thought you know we we could maybe Host
06:43this as a live audio session we started
06:45this on clubhouse and that's kind of how
06:48the whole show started we can't tell you
06:49how much it was purely accidental and
06:51serendipitous and in some ways I think
06:54maybe these things have to be I don't
06:55think you can set out in something like
06:57this because there's so much art and uh
06:59you know intuition involved it kind of
07:01came from this very human core of we're
07:06bored we like talking to people uh you
07:09know it's really hard to talk to people
07:10during covid and we said let's have a
07:13place where we can have a friendly
07:14conversation like the first few episodes
07:16were not not like these not shows they
07:19were really like you know how to go
07:21fundraise how do you do performance
07:22reviews if you're a new manager like
07:24very like advice sessions and we would
07:27bring in experts we knew our other
07:29Founders we knew and we just it was more
07:32about giving back to that founder
07:34community and we did a lot a lot of
07:36those sessions and it was fairly boring
07:38it was just very like we thought they
07:40were really cool and fun but like you
07:42know our parents or whoever would listen
07:43in and be like what was that like why
07:46are you guys talking on this thing yeah
07:47so it is really hard when you do one of
07:50these to know what is happening on the
07:52other side you can't really picture the
07:54human being who's listening to it or
07:56watching it uh and what are they going
07:58through but I would say that was
07:59definitely inflection point where Arty I
08:00remember the first few weeks issued at
08:02all these DMS from India from here a lot
08:04of women they would reach out be like Oh
08:06I'm I can't believe you you're there and
08:08you you have Marc Anthony and Elon Musk
08:10and you know because your background is
08:12my background and I'm here well I think
08:13one thing that's interesting about
08:14podcasting it really does feel sometimes
08:17like you're searching for a needle in a
08:18haystack in terms of what's working you
08:20get all types of feedback sometimes it's
08:22conflicting podcasting is also kind of
08:24notorious for really bad analytics or
08:26distribution oh yeah it really is this
08:28maze where you're like I I think
08:30something's working because people are
08:31listening but it's really hard to tease
08:33out what is working so where would you
08:35say the show is now like what what kind
08:37of show are you trying to create we
08:39didn't start out with we want to be
08:40creators I see a lot of people who are
08:43like starting podcasts now where they're
08:44like this is a theme and this is a show
08:46and I keep trying to tell them that's
08:48fine but there's a very good chance that
08:50it's all going to change over time and
08:52you might not like see success right
08:54away with with this exact Vision that
08:56you have in mind you know if you told us
08:58two years ago oh you have to have this
09:00like whole setup with lights and
09:02everything and this backdrop and video
09:04and all of that we would have been like
09:06yeah I don't think so like I just don't
09:08think we are that but now you know it's
09:10given us the time and buffer to just
09:12like learn and grow through this and
09:14feel comfortable doing what we do and so
09:16now I think the show uh how would you
09:18describe where we are now I think many
09:20ways to measure it you know we can kind
09:21of look at the numbers you know we often
09:23get uh episodes now which get millions
09:25of views and that's really amazing uh
09:27we're really invested into video so you
09:29really want to experiment with all
09:30different formats which is a whole
09:31interesting other conversation also the
09:33one thing about the interesting I think
09:34podcast or anything here is you have to
09:37hold two things constant at the same
09:39time one is I think it needs to have
09:41some kernel of Truth and authenticity to
09:43it I've seen so many podcasts well and
09:46they often fail because somebody wants
09:48to get out there and be like I'm going
09:49to make a successful podcast and I don't
09:51think that is a motivation that sustains
09:54you or the audience well it's also too
09:57broad right it's kind of like someone
09:58saying I want to create a startup it's
10:00like okay well what do you want to build
10:01what problem are you trying to solve
10:02what are you excited about absolutely
10:04right and it doesn't go anywhere so I
10:06think you need some point of Truth which
10:07is you have to really care about the
10:09topic you have to care about the topic
10:10and talk about it even if nobody's
10:12listening to it and I think the audience
10:14can sense uh you know the level of
10:16authenticity and they in some ways they
10:17have to really start connecting with you
10:20as the narrator the guide the sherpa
10:22who's going to take them through this
10:23and that sort of exists in this fuzzy
10:25sphere of human connection and intimacy
10:28and relationships then there is this
10:29other word which is Partnerships metrics
10:32views retention top of funnel uh
10:35download right and it's incredibly
10:36quantifiable and there is a game there's
10:38an algorithm that you all need to play
10:40to and I think you know what we're
10:42trying to do is kind of balance both
10:43because the end of the day you know we
10:45don't do this for a living we kind of do
10:47this for fun and unless we enjoy it just
10:49to stop the thing that hasn't really
10:51changed is we just we're kind of curious
10:54people even the show when we started I
10:56think we were just sitting around late
10:57night and being like
10:59they're really nice to like have these
11:01fake folks to just talk to them like you
11:02know we should just like ask them what
11:04they do how they do what they do kind of
11:06thing and uh that hasn't changed in two
11:10years in and that's the part that I'm
11:11really excited about where every guest
11:14like you know yesterday we did an
11:15episode and the prep leading to the
11:18episode that's the part we love and
11:20enjoy the most because we are like it's
11:22like this discovering this like this
11:24person like you know you've obviously
11:26read about them heard about them read
11:28their books or whatever they've done but
11:30then you when you have to prep you
11:32really have to like know the individual
11:34and put some time and effort into it and
11:36I think that we still enjoy that and
11:38we're still very curious about who the
11:40person is and kind of showing our
11:43audience you know that side of them
11:45whether they're like Builders thinkers
11:46creators whoever they are that is the
11:49most fun for us well you know what um
11:51I'm taking away which is something that
11:52I've noticed with content for quite some
11:54time now is a lot of people to your
11:56point earlier they're like I want to
11:57create a blog I want to create a podcast
11:59and then once they decide to do that
12:00they think about it too much in terms of
12:02what they're creating so as an example
12:04they might say I want to create an
12:06interview style podcast about technology
12:08and that's okay but I mean how many
12:10podcasts are there with that exact same
12:13what and I think when you really
12:15consider why you listen to a specific
12:17podcast or read a specific newsletter
12:18it's how they do it and if I were to
12:20articulate what both of you do really
12:22really well is you make it approachable
12:25the podcast feels warm right and even
12:27when you think about the way people
12:29articulate why they like a podcast or a
12:32newsletter Etc it's it's that how part
12:34you never go to someone and say hey I've
12:36got this great podcast and they ask why
12:37and you say well they talk about
12:39technology no because there's so many
12:40podcasts about technology you say oh man
12:43these hosts they just make it feel so
12:44approachable they're from my hometown or
12:46a town similar to mine they they have no
12:47ego they're not afraid to ask you know
12:50simple questions and so I think that's
12:52really important as people consider
12:54whether they should pursue a podcast
12:56because technically it's easier than
12:59ever but that doesn't mean that you know
13:01it's easy to start a podcast and I mean
13:04from that frame I've been trying to
13:05figure this out myself is the sliding
13:08scale between what I would call
13:09entertainment and information huberman
13:12lab I think hit number one yesterday I
13:14surround you shared that in a chat we're
13:15in and I feel like that's very
13:17information dense I go into the human
13:19Lab podcast and I come out and I'm like
13:21oh my God I need to reshape my life I'm
13:23doing everything wrong and then there's
13:25other podcasts that quite frankly at the
13:27end of that podcast episode I've taken
13:30nothing away but I loved it right I
13:33truly enjoyed being there how do you
13:35think about that sliding scale with your
13:37podcast you can't separated it from your
13:40own personality right even my lab you
13:42know Andrew is amazing at it because he
13:45brings to the table one this amazing
13:47life experience right you should listen
13:48to him and he talks about his
13:49skateboarding life and he's been in some
13:51dark times and overcoming that that part
13:52of it infused with the fact that he has
13:55this huge academic background is
13:56genuinely curious right so one is you're
13:59putting yourself into it and you can't
14:02really Divorce Yourself when this shows
14:04are taking off I kind of went into this
14:05uh in a sort of analysis of all the
14:08great interviewers the last 20 30 years
14:10and I try to kind of map out kind of
14:12honestly steal from them on like what
14:14they were doing well and you know um and
14:16owners can try to find some answers for
14:17us and what we were trying to do
14:19um because you're trying to square a
14:20circle right you're trying to describe a
14:22circle of something which is authentic
14:24to you something which is fun for you
14:26something which is in some value to the
14:29audience it can be information it can be
14:30entertainment something which is great
14:32for a guest if you have an interview
14:33kind of content which is like they
14:35probably have positive experience about
14:36it um and something kind of works in
14:39terms of the algorithms and numbers and
14:40you're trying to square this circle and
14:41it seems as an impossible uh equation
14:43and I was trying to go through history
14:45who's gonna figure it out and you
14:47realize first of all that everyone has
14:49their own stuff and give you a few
14:50examples of styles right uh Larry King
14:52right uh maybe one of the greatest
14:54broadcasters interviewers of all time if
14:56you read this biography if you read a
14:57style he is all about I'm going to go in
15:00assuming my audience knows nothing about
15:03this person and I actually he's famous
15:05for doing no prep right but it brought
15:07into this amazing purity she was like
15:09whatever are you working on tell me what
15:11you wrote right and and because his
15:13audience doesn't know either right and
15:15he could sort of communicate the uh sort
15:18of this honest version of like some New
15:19Yorker on the street be like I don't
15:20know who this person is Tell Me What You
15:22Got What are you about right and there's
15:23an honesty to the conversation obviously
15:25Larry King was one of the Legends that's
15:27on one end of the spectrum on the other
15:28end of the spectrum you have somebody
15:30like Howard Stern right Howard Stern you
15:32know he's maybe polarizing character but
15:33one of the things he likes to do is put
15:35in amazing research Howard Stern with
15:37Jon Stewart one of his first questions
15:38is he pulls out the very first joke Jon
15:41Stewart ever said in a public setting
15:43and Stuart is bowled over right he's
15:46like how do you ever find that the other
15:47spectrum is sort of the wipe or the CH
15:50you know the format of the shirt so for
15:51example if you're doing a hard
15:52journalism show right you're doing 60
15:54minutes right you want to hold your feet
15:55to the fire I'm gonna hold you
15:57accountable right that's one version of
15:59things there's another version of things
16:01I think is closer to where we are which
16:03um you are doing something interesting
16:05and I want to understand and the
16:09audience hope you understand through me
16:10how it is it you do what you do I'm a
16:13huge fan of John lacare right the famous
16:15Espionage writer who tragically recently
16:17passed away he hated doing press he
16:19hated talking to journalists he was in
16:21France and he met his host for what he
16:23thought or some random friendship and he
16:25was like God I hate it I don't even
16:26speak French and this horse his name is
16:28uh Bernard pivot he hosted basically
16:30let's call The Equinox Tonight Show uh
16:32uh in France right I think he still does
16:34and lookary was nervous he was like I
16:36hate this I don't even speak French like
16:39I'm gonna make a fool of myself I hate
16:40the whole end of it right in the first
16:4250 seconds right he's like like this is
16:44the most amazing Carnation ever had
16:45right and look at it describes it so
16:47well he says it is not because people
16:49was good looking Charming funny smart
16:52even I mean he probably was some version
16:54of all these things but the thing was
16:55within instantly he could communicate to
16:57the guest was you are going to be okay
17:00here with me when I saw that right and
17:03I'm not going to claim we even get close
17:05to any of that but I was like this is
17:07what our goal is like every show right I
17:10want to have the guests be like I'm
17:11gonna be okay here and I think if you
17:13get that everything else really falls
17:15into place you know what that reminds me
17:17of this analogy that I like to use for
17:19podcasts specifically which is it's kind
17:21of crazy when you think about it let's
17:23say our podcasts are typically maybe an
17:25hour long The Listener is with you for
17:27an hour every week maybe more than that
17:29and so it's very different than reading
17:31a newsletter for five minutes or
17:33stumbling upon a blog post randomly
17:35online and spending a couple minutes
17:37um where you don't even know who wrote
17:38it and so it's a very intimate form of
17:40content and so I like to frame it as
17:42like podcasts are your best friends and
17:44so I think you're right that there's
17:46more of a friendship that needs to be
17:49created not just with the person you're
17:51interviewing but that parasocial
17:52relationship with the listener and so
17:55that's where I think you know I framed
17:56it as entertainment but it's this warmth
17:58it's this connection that you need to
18:01create and I like the framing that you
18:02you describe there it's like you're
18:03making someone feel comfortable like
18:06they want to be there and you can't fake
18:08it um and sometimes it takes a lot of
18:10work and it's not the same for every
18:11person and a lot of the people have it
18:12out at the very top of their field uh
18:14how kind of figure out a system of how
18:16to make things work and I'm always
18:17trying to get that system out of them I
18:20think about it as getting them off their
18:21talk track are they how do you think
18:23about that how have you effectively as
18:25you're going into these interviews with
18:26people who are so media trained and have
18:29done so many interviews likely a lot of
18:31those interviews have the same questions
18:33being asked and I've found at least
18:35listening to both of your shows like you
18:38do somehow find a way to get them off
18:39their talk track do you have any
18:41thoughts on how you've managed to do
18:42that our job here is to one make sure
18:46that the guest feels like this is a good
18:48use of their time they're here for an
18:50hour they're usually really busy people
18:52our other job is to you know we have all
18:55these people and we know our cohorts of
18:57audience who are like listening watching
18:59you know the show they often tend to be
19:02you know not from the same world that we
19:04are but aspirationally they want to be
19:06here they're typically Founders are
19:09aspiring Founders they're young a lot of
19:12them are very geographically distributed
19:15and so for a lot of them like I think of
19:17our job as to be in service of them and
19:20to make sure that we are able to bridge
19:22the gap between what would they want and
19:25what what is interesting to them and
19:27getting the guests to feel like they can
19:29convey that in that time frame that they
19:32have it sounds really clinical when I
19:34put it that way but really like an hour
19:37every week of somebody spending the time
19:39to listen is a huge investment on their
19:42part and we want to make sure that it is
19:45actually valuable to them I know what
19:48this person is working on or what
19:50they're doing or what their day-to-day
19:52looks like or the book that they wrote
19:54or anything of that sort but I think it
19:57is still worth it to ask the question so
19:59that the person who's listening on the
20:01other end gets the value out of it
20:03because I can't assume that they know
20:05and so some of the questions might just
20:09what advice do you have for Founders
20:11kind of thing and uh it sounds so basic
20:14but sometimes that's kind of where
20:17you know you get interesting answers and
20:20that kind of breaks them out of that
20:21mold of the pr schpl which is they're
20:24here to go launch their book and they
20:26can talk about the book but then I'm
20:28like no wait but you did that why did
20:30you start that company why did you do
20:31this thing and they're like oh wait
20:33you're actually interested in me as a
20:34person who did that okay let me like
20:36talk to you about that I also think
20:37about the curse of knowledge right you
20:39mentioned that sometimes it's the
20:40simplest questions that people get
20:42really excited about and I'm sure all of
20:44us and people listening have put out
20:46content before trying to sound really
20:48smart or say you know this is like so
20:51thoughtful I spent you know two months
20:53on this and then it flops and sometimes
20:55it's the simplest things that people
20:57just really latch onto they're really
21:00um but ultimately I think what's also
21:02important to consider is that a podcast
21:03is effectively a product right and so
21:06you are getting even though it is
21:08limited with podcasting some signal back
21:10so I want to hear from both of you
21:12because it does sound like you are quite
21:14glued into the metrics what are you
21:16learning what are you paying attention
21:17to and what has worked in terms of
21:19actually growing your show you actually
21:21think of it as a product who's your
21:23Market who are your customers what are
21:24you building for them how are you
21:26finding them how are they finding you
21:27how are you getting them in the door are
21:29they staying there's some just the basic
21:30questions of any product you know
21:32especially in the consumer world really
21:34go for podcasts also and often a famous
21:36name can help with that which is you get
21:38an Elon Musk you know AR Rahman who's
21:40huge in India a lot of people who have
21:42told you who you are will find you right
21:44uh but that is a one-time value
21:47um but how do you retain them and what
21:49we have found is retaining them is
21:51because they start to hopefully trust us
21:54and they listen to more of our
21:55conversations and you know then they go
21:57from just top of funnel person to a Dau
21:59or a WEAU in consumer software terms the
22:02other thing I think from the product
22:02world we realize is fast iteration like
22:05we've changed multiple things we try out
22:07things all the time about everything
22:09from thumbnails to how we handle social
22:12uh you know hobby trailer the first few
22:15seconds of like a retention hook oh yeah
22:17because if you don't try you don't know
22:19what's working or not I think what SRI
22:20Ram said which is you get these
22:21acquisitive episodes which are like big
22:23guests like I think AR Rahman for us
22:25last year was a really big get is a you
22:28know one of one of the most famous
22:29people in India and world over now but I
22:33really look for attention which is like
22:34you know and this is the the cliche we
22:37came for this guest but I staying for
22:40you both kind of thing and we get
22:41comments like this all the time that's
22:43kind of when we know we're doing our
22:44jobs because uh people are watching a
22:47lot of the episode content oftentimes we
22:49see the average number of minutes a user
22:52watches like anywhere between 12 to 15
22:54minutes of our episode which is like 25
22:56of the episode we also look for like
22:58retention overall like if you're a user
23:01new user who subscribed are you coming
23:03back and listening to new shows that
23:05we're putting together every week kind
23:06of thing so I look for that and you
23:08probably know this because you're doing
23:09this too you have a very strong
23:10intuitive feel for when something is
23:12working because it's you know your email
23:14matches fire yeah your email lights up
23:16people let you know yeah yeah people let
23:19you know right and uh you also know the
23:21opposite when something totally didn't
23:22work and uh and you know it just takes
23:24silence and and the hard part sometimes
23:26is when the dispatch your expectation or
23:29your calibration when you think
23:31something's gonna work and totally bombs
23:32and I was gonna say the other
23:34Direction's brutal but yeah
23:37and uh oftentimes it's because we didn't
23:41quite understand how to get the best out
23:43of this guest something about the way we
23:47had like tried to make
23:49um this conversation and these points
23:51and the the communication style work
23:53didn't resonate with the the listeners
23:55sometimes and I'm more guilty of the
23:57synartheism we go into an episode
24:00already wanting a certain kind of
24:02episode okay and uh and uh and you have
24:06this guess you're like and some and
24:07sometimes it's from a very good place
24:09you are a fan you know that work you
24:11want to sort of Fanboy out over the
24:12thing or you're thinking this person
24:14expert in X Y and Z that's awesome X Y
24:16and Z because you're very good at it and
24:18it's going to work with your audience in
24:19particular way it's going to work with
24:20your team yeah and when you do that some
24:22sometimes it works but sometimes it
24:25has a certain level of artifice and
24:28constrained to what is really a a
24:31free-flowing human conversation yeah
24:33yeah I think the audience can feel it
24:35the guests can feel it and then
24:38but there is something about that and to
24:41be honest I don't have an answer to that
24:42like sometimes you have to because
24:43somebody's launching a new book or a new
24:44movie you have to ask about it that's
24:45great right it's kind of part of the
24:46deal because they want to promote it
24:48it's amazing sometimes if you're a fan
24:50you want to ask them about like that
24:51particular thing and I try to get better
24:53at it I try to give more space and just
24:54follow the conversation but it's a
24:57tricky and to your point The Listener
24:58can tell I mean Jerome and I were
25:00talking about this before we started
25:01recording and I had the same thing I'm
25:03new to this role and the first couple
25:05podcasts I did I way over prepared and I
25:09did exactly what you're saying where I
25:10was like there's an arc people want to
25:12hear about X from this person I'm gonna
25:14make sure I get it out of them I'm gonna
25:15make sure I ask this really amazing
25:17well-crafted question and then to your
25:20point sometimes that works and sometimes
25:21it just feels really fabricated and
25:23going back to the analogy of podcast has
25:25kind of being like people's best friends
25:27imagine showing up to you know a
25:29friend's house and there's some other
25:31friends there and someone is like we
25:33have to talk about this today we have to
25:35you know we have to follow this
25:37conversation Arc and I think you know
25:39sometimes if people want to talk about
25:40that it's in the news and everyone's
25:42excited about it great but when it
25:44doesn't feel organic oh yeah like think
25:47about how strange that is in real life
25:48it feels the same on podcasts and I'll
25:51you know I'll say it right sometimes you
25:53know I'm guilty of this sometimes I'll
25:55do something where I think the
25:56underlying psychology is like I'm going
25:57to show you how smart I am about this oh
26:02he loves to do that he'd be like so when
26:05you did this and then you followed up
26:07with this in your mind was this what you
26:15sometimes when you when you're a fan you
26:17meet somebody and you want to show them
26:18that you've done the work I do like a
26:20one minute thing of like well you
26:21obviously did this this and this and you
26:23know I'm gonna and then this year you
26:24did that and you wrote this and and
26:26they'd be like uh-huh uh-huh they'd be
26:28like where does he go yeah
26:32I'm laughing because I do the same yeah
26:35okay I'll do a very surprising thing
26:37which I didn't realize right it
26:38surprised me for sure right I was
26:40talking to a really famous person about
26:41interviews one of the most famous people
26:43in the world and uh I was asking them
26:46and they said you know what when a fan
26:48interviews me right one it's amazing
26:50because this person's a fan of your work
26:52your craft movie book whatever it's
26:54great you feel good about it but you
26:55also feel real pressure right because if
26:57that person asks you right like let's
26:59say you're interviewing Michael Jordan
27:00you're like tell me about you know you
27:02know crossing over Byron Russell and
27:03winning the game yeah and you're like
27:04God I've told the story like 100 times
27:06before this person heard that story I am
27:08now on this part to deliver something
27:10because this was such a fact I'd perform
27:12for you but also they have to perform
27:14for you but they want to because they're
27:17like this person says I mean so much to
27:19them I I need to give them something
27:21right pressure too and pressure is never
27:24a good spot for a conversation comes
27:26from this place of like the dinner the
27:29generosity of spirit where he just he
27:31wants to make this work and you can see
27:33the yearning all right let me give you
27:35the real Secret Sauce of podcasting or
27:40Arty kicks me under the table here I'm
27:44going to walk for a story right she's
27:46like that's just me you know I I live as
27:48an exercise a listener to be if you can
27:50spot the moments in every episode now I
27:52have to know how many kicks there have
27:54been in this podcast so far
28:00I was gonna say I think my secret weapon
28:04uh which is many podcast hosts secret
28:06weapon is your editor I think a lot of
28:08people who are listeners forget that
28:09they're like oh my gosh you were so
28:11concise you had such great questions I'm
28:12like you didn't hear the ones I cut out
28:14but I wanna at least kind of end this
28:17segment about podcasting with a question
28:19which I think you know to the point of
28:21delivering value to listeners even
28:23though it is very much an art are there
28:27any tricks any growth hacks anything
28:30that was like an 80 20 whether it was
28:32something as simple as like choosing the
28:34right thumbnails whether it was choosing
28:35to do video instead of just audio are
28:38there any things that maybe a new
28:39podcaster should really keep in mind as
28:41like okay just make sure you check these
28:43boxes so that is the expression which
28:45sounds very mean which is use all parts
28:47of the Buffalo uh and so basically what
28:50it sounds really mean about us I'm sorry
28:52uh but that is the expression but we do
28:55this we have to say an hour and a half
28:56of a video file and a bunch of audio
28:58files right like that thing we have now
29:01what I think you need to do is to take
29:03that and then repurpose that in every
29:06single way for every single platform and
29:08uh and and somebody like Gary vaynerchuk
29:11does this really well where he puts a
29:13lot of effort to take every bit of
29:14content and make it the most innative
29:16version possible for each platform so
29:18for example right that means on YouTube
29:21you have to really into video on audio
29:23you want to have amazing Sound
29:24Engineering you want to make it sound
29:26good you want to have lead and intros
29:28you want to cut it up into short
29:29versions for a reels or a tick tock and
29:31then you want to extract the text out of
29:33it and the learnings and put it on
29:35Twitter or on sub stack one of the ways
29:37to think about it is your podcast is
29:40actually really hard because if you look
29:41at the native podcast platform say just
29:43Apple there is no Discovery mechanism
29:44there is no algorithm right so it's
29:46really word of mouth and but a lot of
29:48other platforms have Discovery
29:49mechanisms like you know Twitter
29:51Instagram YouTube obviously and um the
29:54more you are native to what that
29:56platform wants the easier I think what's
29:58important there is we talked about a
30:00podcast being kind of like a product if
30:01you're founding a company you're not
30:02just like Hey we're going to create this
30:04product we're going to put it on one
30:05distribution Channel and we're just
30:06going to keep it the same forever you
30:08test a bunch of different things out you
30:10test marketing channels you test copy
30:11you iterate the product another thing I
30:13want to hear from you about is this
30:15difference between what you might call
30:17an audience and a community something
30:18that I think is interesting that you've
30:21ventured into recently is these
30:23in-person events and really translating
30:25what you're doing digitally into
30:27something physically audience is kind of
30:29unidirectional a bunch of people
30:32listening to your podcast but a
30:33community there's connections within the
30:35communities of listeners to other
30:36listeners and then also in Reverse from
30:39you as hosts back to the community as
30:41well and so how are you thinking about
30:44that's the goal that's the long-term
30:46goal we want to have these cohorts of
30:48people when they engage with us it's not
30:51just value from our show and our content
30:53but from each other being in that same
30:55cohort right like that's I think the
30:57ideal in state for us that day that
30:58evening when we had people coming in
31:00that's I think kind of when it hit both
31:02of us where we were like this is really
31:04cool we have a couple hundred people
31:06here who showed up for no reason other
31:08than to just come see us in person and
31:11hang out with us and to us we were like
31:13wait a second we've kind of gone from
31:15just being these podcast hosts or like
31:17goofy getting guests to like show up to
31:19being like we can now have these people
31:22and a lot of them there I think like 70
31:23of them are like Founders and uh it was
31:27great because they all got value from
31:28just talking to each other one of the
31:30most interesting pieces I ever read on
31:32this topic is Kevin Kelly's legendary
31:331000 true fans basically the idea is
31:36that uh if you're creating anything of
31:38any product you want to find your first
31:40thousand really true fans right who will
31:42consume anything that you do and they
31:43trust you if you do that you're really
31:45after the races and um I think the
31:47community really comes from that which
31:49is are these people connected to each
31:51other are they finding value outside of
31:53just what we do and look we are not
31:55doing this as a job we only really want
31:57to do this if people are going to be
31:59like oh I this helped me build a company
32:01or this helped me get ahead of my career
32:03when we do this event a lot of people
32:05met each other there are now folks who
32:07are thinking of doing a meet up even
32:08without us will this grow I don't know
32:10but I think you do need some sort of
32:12that kind of goal or mission to fuel you
32:16well what's your mission in that case
32:18because you both said you just kind of
32:20stumbled into this for fun it's been
32:21going well you like it uh but to my
32:24knowledge you're not running ads on it I
32:26don't think you're gonna sell to
32:28something like Spotify and so what is
32:30the end state of this like what are you
32:32looking towards building this we really
32:35believe that technology entrepreneurship
32:38is one of the biggest forces for good in
32:42the world in all the ways that you mean
32:45the word good and we want to literally
32:47benefited us oh yeah it's really benefit
32:49us like we would not have met without
32:51technology we met online you know uh 20
32:53years ago our jobs you know everything
32:55that we have it's this is our way of
32:56maybe giving back it's not as catchy as
32:59other companies mission statements and
33:01stuff but uh it works for us you know I
33:03have to ask you guys you seem very
33:06aligned on a lot of your answers like
33:09what do you guys disagree on you guys
33:11are a married couple I actually I don't
33:13know if you guys know this I have a
33:15separate podcast from the a16z podcast
33:16that I do with my husband and let me
33:19just say we don't agree on everything oh
33:21no all the time all the time we do
33:23disagree quite a bit I get kicked under
33:26I mean I think also I think part of it
33:29um we've known each other for half our
33:31lives now I think last year was the year
33:33where we we've known each other for more
33:35time than not knowing each other so I
33:37think it's taken us a while to get to
33:41um we agree on a lot of things on like
33:44at least like on an abstract sense of it
33:45but the details of it we still differ
33:48and disagree with yeah like uh that's
33:50where like a lot of the magic is because
33:51we bring such different lenses and this
33:53is everything like a choice of guests
33:55you know how the thumbnail look kinds of
33:57questions are we spending too much time
33:58on something not to plan something or
34:00something even broader like you know
34:01what's the what should we call the show
34:02you know and it's kind of constant
34:04discussion and back and forth and uh you
34:06know and artists are often mostly right
34:08our lenses are different
34:10um I'm very left-brained as a person I'm
34:12also much more introverted and I look at
34:15it as a very what what are they here for
34:18what do we have to convey kind of thing
34:21I look at it in like it it has to be
34:23really clean like the narrative in the
34:25story I think sure is more of like a
34:28artist he's a showman he brings high
34:32energy he's very extroverted people love
34:35like you know you can see them even
34:37before we hit the record button they're
34:39already yapping away they've spent 20
34:41minutes just chatting and I'm like stop
34:43stop stop save this like material for
34:45the show and they just love being in the
34:48room with him and just chatting with him
34:50I think also like once in holding the
34:53show honest right like she'll be the one
34:55which is like hey we need to do this for
34:57this person right like this question
34:59yeah um she's the one often holding me
35:01honest and sometimes I often a creative
35:02a weird tangent and I think we balance
35:05it out but yeah we do disagree a lot it
35:09um I want to ask you about Community as
35:12well you've been creating these WhatsApp
35:14chats with a bunch of creators and uh
35:17they're great and I can't believe I mean
35:20Arthur you mentioned this like energy
35:22that sriram has like I don't know how
35:24you're always posting in there finding
35:26all these things from Twitter or
35:27elsewhere like how are you thinking
35:29about building those communities I think
35:31that it's kind of been a shift in the
35:32way we think about social media and
35:34online conversation so for example like
35:3715 years ago uh when Twitter first
35:39started uh around 2008 2007 you just
35:42come in there and you would post what
35:43you had for lunch and it was perfectly
35:46um and everyone was just kind of a small
35:47set of friends nobody's going to dunk
35:49you and then it shows up in the National
35:50you know yeah you know what is social
35:52media what is online community as change
35:55in many many exciting ways that we've
35:57seen the rise of YouTube and then
35:59Instagram and then Snapchat and then
36:01Tick Tock and then video and uh you know
36:04discard and you know I can keep going on
36:06and on the types of posts we would do on
36:08Facebook is so funny right we'd just be
36:10like you know going to the store like
36:12meeting a friend and people liked that
36:16um now it's very different the bar is
36:18much higher but it's also bifurcated in
36:19a way where you have something like Tick
36:21Tock which is more topical I'd be remiss
36:23not to ask you about your experience at
36:25Twitter and where you see that evolving
36:27or how you see the kind of whole Matrix
36:29of social because if people aren't aware
36:31you you obviously have had some pretty
36:34intimate involvement in
36:37um the recent acquisition by Elon at
36:39least you got to see kind of you got a
36:42front row seat Well I think what's
36:43happened is you know if you go back five
36:44six years ago uh it felt like social
36:47media was in bit of a stasis right you
36:48had two three companies which really
36:50dominated I worked for you know some of
36:52them and you kind of posted in ways
36:56where you expected everything was going
36:57to be public and the last piece I think
36:59you've seen an explosion of innovation
37:01um and things have shifted in a few
37:02Dimensions we've moved from a follower
37:04graph to now having Ai and
37:07recommendations derive so much of what
37:08we do YouTube If you know
37:10recommendations drive a lot of it tick
37:11tock the photograph almost really
37:13doesn't matter it's really the for you
37:14page that really matters Twitter is
37:16obviously spending with it so that's one
37:17dimension the other dimension I would
37:19say is in kind of the you know the size
37:22of the spaces Mark Zuckerberg was saying
37:24and I think some time recently that so
37:26much of the conversation now Instagram
37:27if somebody takes an Instagram post and
37:28then sends it to a group chat and it
37:30Sparks off a conversation so you're kind
37:31of this public to private space uh
37:34transition happening in ways that just
37:35wasn't happening before third I spent
37:38all my daily job uh uh when artists are
37:40kicking me into the uh the table working
37:42on crypto and but one of the core ideas
37:45behind it is that uh you know power to
37:48the people and decentralization the idea
37:50that hey uh in each of one Central set
37:52of people running everything and calling
37:54the shots and having all the economics
37:56how do we do it in a way where these
37:58things are no protocols and evidence
37:59Collective ownership so there are a
38:01bunch of these sort of zeitgeist ships
38:03happening and as you said you know I I
38:06was briefly uh helping Elon at Twitter I
38:09was there on the let it sink in day and
38:12it now feels like social is active and
38:15alive again there was a time when you're
38:17like well I have Facebook I have
38:19Instagram I have Twitter or maybe
38:21Snapchat them that is it right that's
38:22gonna be all the social media anybody
38:24ever needs and that is not true anymore
38:26yeah I think I want to hear your
38:28perspective on this idea of the Creator
38:30economy and specifically the Creator
38:32middle class so we've seen the rise of
38:36the independent crater over the last few
38:38years and I think in some spaces you
38:40could say text especially we've seen
38:42independent creators be able to kind of
38:45monetize their followings through that
38:48audio is interesting because if you
38:49actually look at the top podcasts the
38:53um they're all people who had large
38:55distribution who were already successful
38:57who already had reach who are really
39:00dominating there and you could say
39:01that's partially because of the
39:02discoverability or monetization that
39:04exists within audio did you have any
39:05thoughts there on whether we're really
39:07going to be able to build this quote
39:08unquote Creator middle class within
39:10audio specifically you are kind of what
39:13you measure right and with audio there's
39:15just not a whole lot that's uh
39:17measurable right now a lot of it is just
39:20like hidden behind these big black boxes
39:22right at the beginning we played this
39:23game you're looking at like 4500
39:25downloads an episode to make it to one
39:27percent so where does the chart fall off
39:30like what is distribution like who's
39:31getting that there's no transparency of
39:33metrics I think if you have better
39:35metrics and better discoverability just
39:37helping creators be successful with more
39:39tools I think you're going to get there
39:40but I think the other part of it is
39:43at the end of the day if you're making
39:46money through brands or sponsorships or
39:48any of these Brands need to start seeing
39:50value right and I think that feedback
39:53loop is not quite there yet where it's
39:55like well okay this person talked about
39:57this product they gave a coupon code the
40:00attribution system behind it like a lot
40:02of it is still super early days we
40:04haven't kind of cracked that feedback
40:06loop so it's going to happen but I think
40:08it's just going to be a while and just
40:11like any other like you know social
40:13networks a lot of the you know the the
40:16top percentile or couple percentile
40:19creators are going to have like an
40:21outsized kind of return and impact and
40:24then there's this big long tail of folks
40:26that you're going to see I can't sort of
40:28disagree with you that or these people
40:29lived audiences because these are the
40:31top charts right yeah we'll get huberman
40:33did not have a larger Instagram came out
40:34of nowhere that's true yeah
40:36Lex Friedman came out of nowhere clearly
40:39to uh build one of the most popular
40:41podcasts around they're definitely
40:43obviously Liberties for example Emma
40:44Chamberlain has one of the popular
40:45podcasts around I think you're right
40:47that these people didn't have followings
40:49but I think they they didn't burst into
40:51the scene I think the thing that we're
40:53missing is it took a really long time
40:55for a lot of these folks to like keep
40:57chipping away at it it just looks to us
40:59like overnight successes because it
41:01suddenly got into the Zeitgeist and
41:02everybody's like hoberman Lex and you
41:05just hear that when like your Eco
41:06chamber that you are in but they've been
41:08doing this for years now I think that's
41:11kind of going back to the point of it
41:13just takes a while like all of these
41:15like the breakout Stars don't break out
41:16overnight it just takes five six seven
41:18years to get there yeah which maybe
41:20somebody listened to us and they want to
41:21start their own podcast I will say you
41:23know this is amazing stuff it's like 90
41:24of podcasts don't last episode 20 and
41:26the remaining 90 don't last episode 40.
41:29um that is so true so if you're doing a
41:31podcast uh a couple of things number one
41:33do you have to really enjoy doing it
41:35every single week because if you don't
41:37enjoy it you will not make it episode 20
41:38let me not make it episode 40. um so you
41:40kind of have to look into yourself right
41:42I don't look to the numbers because
41:43numbers zero for quite a bit of quite a
41:45bit of time um and that's really hard
41:47for people make it to 40 and then you
41:49can talk about whether you want to quit
41:50or not well that is true
41:53you would have learned uh you know so
41:55much about the art of podcasting what is
41:57working what is not uh the other thing
41:59artists couldn't tell people and this
42:00was earlier about the product Market fit
42:02and how we think about a startup is I
42:04sometimes see podcasts and they do their
42:05very first podcast they record an entire
42:07season before launching and that is bad
42:10because I think what happens is you're
42:11getting no feedback right I started this
42:13person and they had recorded I think
42:15like 15 episodes you know been back to
42:17back and they're putting it out they're
42:18gonna put off like three four months and
42:19this person maybe this really work but
42:21this problem is like when something
42:22isn't working they're not getting the
42:23feedback they only react on it like next
42:26year and that's really hard because you
42:28need to react on it week to week your
42:30UDA Loop you know your observe Orient
42:31decide act that Loop needs to be super
42:33sharp put an episode look at what's
42:35happening change it up the next week
42:37change it up the week after and that
42:39iteration cycle by episode 40 you'll be
42:42so dramatically better than you are in
42:44episode one yeah definitely I mean both
42:48or have grown companies to significant
42:51size what would be interesting is just
42:52to hear from you as people who have
42:54created podcasts and as we've talked
42:56about a couple times here the
42:58infrastructure is not great we don't
43:00really get as much signal as we'd like
43:02the tooling is pretty nascent at least
43:05as we compare it to something like text
43:07if you put your Founder Hat on are there
43:10certain companies or gaps that you think
43:12really need to be addressed that could
43:13help podcasters like you and I there are
43:16a few parts to look at this right one is
43:18the content the guest booking like we
43:21look at the whole funnel of the podcast
43:23right and if you look at it there's an
43:26initial part which is like the prep
43:27getting the guest booked on our show you
43:30know actually hosting the conversation
43:31recording it the tools for recording it
43:33all of that there if you look at it
43:35initially it used to be super manual you
43:37know the tools were not that great uh
43:39guest booking was like calendly chaos of
43:42like going back and forth between the
43:43three of us and so like a lot of that is
43:45like gotten a bit more streamlined then
43:47uh post recording we used to struggle
43:50with like okay transcripts what do we do
43:52now break this into Clips so that it's
43:55bite-sized and consumable we want uh
43:58insta reels what do we do there Tick
44:00Tock has to look different feel
44:01different shorts is a little bit
44:03different like you can it has to be
44:04under a minute now reels are like can be
44:07a little bit longer so you kind of sort
44:08of have to figure this out and now I
44:10think things tools like descript has
44:11been helpful there are lots of other
44:12tools that are like now coming in
44:14playing a really good role there and
44:16then post right like looking at metrics
44:19um they use anchor we use Simple cast we
44:21look at like podcast download numbers
44:22YouTube has been really good like I
44:25really like the studio metrics page
44:27there are a lot of these like tools that
44:29are now coming in and just getting
44:31really good and practically like month
44:33to month you're seeing like step
44:35function changes in what value they're
44:37offering so I do think we're in like a
44:39really interesting time now yeah we
44:41tried to prep for a couple of episodes
44:42by pulley pushing it to chat GPT oh yeah
44:44and uh that was kind of fun because we
44:46FedEd like a bunch of like this is an
44:48author these are the books
44:50here's what happened okay we forgot to
44:54the truth comes out all right and then
44:57arthy at the last minute was like I
44:58don't know what to ask and then so she
45:00fitted into chat GPT and we got a bunch
45:02of stuff we're like okay pretty good I
45:05actually sent the questions to sure um
45:07Insurance like yeah these are pretty
45:08good and I was like I did not come up
45:10with them you know it's so funny I have
45:12to confess so for the trivia at the very
45:14beginning around half of those questions
45:16I just asked chat GPT what are some
45:18interesting fun facts about podcasting I
45:21came up with a few on my own but yeah
45:22Chad vpt was my little assistant as well
45:25I think sometimes in the future it's
45:26going to be like that it's going to be
45:27just like you know when you buy a
45:29product from the supermarket you have
45:30like you know that what content it's
45:32gonna be like this is purely human
45:33generated there's only 10 percent of AI
45:35participation in this part yeah you know
45:37I heard Mark actually talk about this on
45:39a recent interview with Vijay and he
45:41talked about Mad Men which is one of the
45:43most popular TV shows of I think all
45:46um and the writers of the show talked
45:49about how they would sit in a room and
45:51they would come up with a bunch of
45:52different plot lines and they would come
45:55up with them partially because they were
45:56like let's get all the obvious stuff out
45:58of the way let's just like write what
46:00everyone expects and madman has now
46:02become known for the fact that they
46:04actually like you don't know what's
46:05gonna happen you think you do and then
46:06it goes you know it takes a left turn
46:08and so I think that's another way where
46:11even as I Was preparing for this
46:13interview I was like yeah let's use chat
46:15gbt some of it's okay some of it's good
46:17but even the good stuff like let me come
46:19up with better questions than what it's
46:21outputting here like these are the
46:22obvious things that everyone expects to
46:24ask that I can almost guarantee that a
46:26previous interview has asked
46:28and so yeah I also think it's a tool to
46:30like push a good generic Baseline I
46:32think and I think it's it's important to
46:34see what that Baseline looks like so
46:36that you can actually like do the work
46:38it's like a median version of humanity
46:42and you Google and you had to write up
46:45something about this person you know
46:46what would you get and it kind of gives
46:48you some worship yeah well the truth has
46:50come out for both of us we're already
46:51using the AI to help with our interviews
46:54all right I want to close things out
46:56with a question because both of you have
46:58had the very cool opportunity to talk to
47:01some of the most impressive people in
47:03the world I mean Elon Musk Mark
47:05Zuckerberg Calvin Harris so we're
47:06talking like across Industries or skill
47:09sets as well and something that um came
47:11to mind as I was thinking about what
47:14question to ask you about all these
47:15wonderful folks that you've spoken to is
47:18something that I've heard Naval talk
47:19about which is being jealous of someone
47:22a celebrity for example isn't very
47:24productive because if you really think
47:26about it if you really think about every
47:27aspect of their lives like who their
47:29loved ones are like how they spend their
47:31day how wealthy they are or not
47:33ultimately it's very rare if true at all
47:36that you would want to trade every
47:37aspect of your life for that person's
47:39life instead of just comparing you know
47:41one sliver of it but I thought that
47:44frame might be interesting to ask you of
47:46all the people you've talked to
47:48who would you actually want to trade
47:50lives with who who were you most like
47:51wow on in every aspect of talking to
47:54this person like their their stature
47:56their um their warmth their uh
47:58personality that the happiness they
48:00bring to life like was there someone
48:01that you were like wow this person you
48:03know maybe unexpectedly has really
48:05captured me and I I really like respect
48:07the way that they've LED their lives
48:09well it's a very good question by the
48:11way if I remember the original nabal
48:13Court was somebody asked me to party uh
48:15about Steve Jobs and how would they
48:16allowed receive jobs and nawal would
48:18tell them like Siri was dead right like
48:19seizures would do anything to be you and
48:26in some ways there's no real one person
48:28you want to be because uh in crypto
48:31there's a sense of you know we talk
48:33about proof of work and proof of stake
48:34and when you talk to somebody you know
48:37like they have done the work right for
48:39example let's say somebody is interested
48:41they'd be like well why can't I be I've
48:43been transplanted into Elon Musk and you
48:45know I have billions of dollars and I
48:47have all these companies and it'd be fun
48:48but Elon Musk is now the Elon set up a
48:50sum of his experiences and all the
48:52journey and that what makes him uniquely
48:54him so I don't I don't mean sort of very
48:57you know very philosophical about this
48:58but I don't think there's one person I
49:00would really want to transplant into
49:01because I would never be that person you
49:03know I would be me in living that person
49:05it'd be might be fun for a day or two
49:06but ultimately I would probably get
49:07bored because I haven't seen the journey
49:09what I've tried to do it's like maybe
49:10steal things or been really impressed by
49:13things from certain people
49:15um they come in different dimensions for
49:17example Mark he's just an encyclopedia
49:18of everything right you know it is out
49:21of the cuff you'll quote some like 50
49:23year old book you know at which page
49:24number and you're like how do you have
49:26this in your head like you know this is
49:27crazy we had like Anders helsberg who is
49:30a legendary programming language
49:31designer and I think he's worked in one
49:35problem for 40 years and just hone that
49:39craft where he's the best in that in the
49:41world and there's something so romantic
49:42and we are about that notion of like you
49:45work on one thing and you're going to be
49:46undisputably the very best in the world
49:50at it and every one of these Empire I'm
49:52like huh like could I steal some version
49:54of what that person has and apply to my
49:56own life and my own job based on your
49:58question I'm like would I be here or
50:00would I be there I would rather be here
50:01you know you're having the time of our
50:04lives just bantering across me kicking
50:07usually we record these a lot of these
50:10are like late at night our kids are
50:11asleep so we like have like an iPad here
50:14these folks are all really great they're
50:16very impressive uh but they don't have
50:19the life that we do I would rather do
50:21this than anything else which I think
50:22it's also a great advice piece of advice
50:24I think everyone trying to be creative
50:25right they're like I want to be Rogan or
50:26I want to be relaxed or I want to be
50:28Alex Cooper I want to be I want to do
50:30the next cereal but you can't do that
50:31and not because you're a talented or
50:33capable but you're not them right they
50:36are doing the thing which works for them
50:37and Mr Beast talks about this all the
50:39time like you can't be a better Mr Beast
50:41than Mr Beast right because it is so
50:43native to him right you need to find the
50:46thing which works for you and then be
50:48the very best at it you can't remember
50:49Alex Cooper and call her daddy then what
50:51she does you can't be a better Rogan so
50:53you kind of have to learn from them but
50:55you have to do it your way so you know
50:57steal from them learn from them and see
50:58what's working but you have to infuse
51:00yourself into it yeah you know if you
51:03listen to his Joe Rogan episode there's
51:04a part uh where Joe is talking to him
51:07about him dreaming up thumbnails and
51:09this idea where Mr Beast has worked on
51:11coming up with uh YouTube video titles
51:14for years and he prompts him he's like
51:17he gives him a word I think he says like
51:18dog or something and the the title that
51:20Mr Beast comes up with in that moment I
51:22was like shocked it was so good given
51:25that his brain had processed it for like
51:27a millisecond and so to your point where
51:29all these AIS have been trained on a
51:32data site which is our lives and you
51:34can't really just copy and paste that to
51:37someone else's life like Mr Beast uh
51:40he's a savant about online video I'll
51:42give you an example you watch is into it
51:43like treatment right in the middle he's
51:45like Lex while we're talking all I'm
51:46seeing is your metrics in video right he
51:49really had him on a clubhouse show right
51:50he would you could see me like this part
51:52is boring to the audience and there's a
51:53part of his Brave it's always like it's
51:55interesting is it boring right and it's
51:56been trained like a neural net over
51:58millions of videos that he's watched and
52:00he and he's saying it all the time you
52:02cannot compete with him on that but
52:04you'll be the best at something else
52:05right like he can't you know Mr Beast is
52:07not an Indian couple you know 20 years
52:10and you know about your jobs and uh so
52:12on so you have to be the best this is
52:14going to sound like I know some
52:15self-help book but like you have to be
52:17the best you possible someone's gonna
52:19clip that but no I couldn't agree more
52:21and just for listeners one tip to maybe
52:25if you've ever been in a situation where
52:27someone has asked you how did you notice
52:29that that is something that your brain
52:31is more trained around than other people
52:34so for me I've been a marketer for a
52:35while and I'll just be like driving down
52:37the street and I'll be like do you see
52:38that sign on the back of that truck like
52:39that's genius marketing or like I'll be
52:41at the movie and I'll see some copy and
52:42I'm always pointing this out kind of
52:44subconsciously and then people will be
52:46like how did you notice that tiny little
52:48thing somewhere and I guarantee everyone
52:50listening has aspects of that in their
52:52own life whether people are just like
52:54dude like where'd that come from like
52:56why are you paying attention to that
52:57because everyone else they've you know
52:59they've drowned it out but maybe if
53:00you're a designer you notice like the
53:01aesthetic within a restaurant
53:02differently than someone else and so I
53:04think that's that's a wonderful place to
53:06end off thank you so much both of you
53:08serum and arthi this is so fun and um
53:10you know we'll have to do this again
53:12sometime there's no almost no kicking so
53:15what's our kick count at the very end
53:17this one yeah the audience can email us
53:21or tweeted us at where that was and we
53:22leave it as an exercise yeah that's
53:25awesome all right thank you so much
53:29thanks for listening to the a16z podcast
53:31if you like this episode don't forget to
53:33subscribe here on YouTube to get our
53:34exclusive video content we'll see you
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