Privateer’s Steve Wozniak, Alex Fielding, and Dr. Moriba Jah on the Data Highway Above

a16z2022-11-09

6K views|1 years ago

💫 Short Summary

Privateer co-founder Steve Wozniak discusses the importance of cleaning up space debris in low Earth orbit and the impact of space infrastructure on agriculture, climate, and defense. The episode highlights the challenges of space debris pollution and the need for improved tracking and global treaties. Privateer focuses on space sustainability in 2022, driven by personal motivations and aims to disrupt the space industry model. They emphasize inclusivity, empathy, and cooperation in space exploration to ensure a sustainable and accessible space environment. The video concludes with a message thanking viewers and encouraging subscriptions for future content.

✨ Highlights

📊 Transcript

✦

Importance of cleaning up space debris in low Earth orbit discussed by Privateer co-founder Steve Wozniak.

00:39

Impact of space infrastructure on agriculture, climate, and defense highlighted.

Growing issue of space debris pollution and challenges as launch costs decrease discussed.

Need for improved tracking and global treaties to address space debris issue emphasized.

Critical role of space infrastructure in everyday life on Earth emphasized.

✦

Focus on space sustainability in 2022 by Privateer, driven by personal motivations and desire to do good for the world.

04:21

Emphasis on creating products that improve people's lives while balancing financial considerations.

Highlight of Alex Fielding's role in bringing the speaker to Privateer, showcasing their longstanding friendship and involvement in the space industry.

✦

The speaker discusses his close relationship with Alex and their collaboration on business ventures.

07:26

Alex is described as a visionary and a skilled judge of people and business opportunities.

The speaker praises Alex's ability to see the long-term picture and his effectiveness in business development.

They have worked together on startups and maintain a close relationship.

The speaker values Alex's input and recommendations, highlighting the importance of personal connections in business decisions.

✦

Importance of Investing in Space and the Space Industry.

09:39

The first Space Race had a significant impact on modern technology, including computing, Lasik eye surgery, and water filtration.

Personal experiences growing up in Silicon Valley and the role of companies like Lockheed Martin in the space race are discussed.

High cost of rocket launches and the development of accurate missiles are highlighted as key factors in the historical context of space exploration.

✦

Advancement in chip technology has reduced the cost and weight of electronic components, enhancing digital and computer technology.

11:51

The narrator reflects on the high costs of chip making in the past.

The importance of space exploration and stewardship is emphasized, showcasing the interconnectedness between space and life on Earth.

Responsible behavior in space activities, involvement of private entities in communication and agreements, and the impact of space technologies on daily life are discussed.

✦

Importance of organization and transparency in sharing information in the evolving landscape of technology.

13:54

Emphasis on the exponential growth of technologies and the need for understanding personal needs and motivations in achieving goals.

Personal anecdotes about early desires for a computer and the journey from personal desires to professional aspirations.

Reflection on the significance of passion and determination in achieving goals.

✦

Contrasting government and private industry in innovation and creativity.

17:00

Private industry enables more freedom for exploring new ideas and technologies.

The significance of inventors driven by curiosity and a desire to make an impact is emphasized.

Personality plays a crucial role in distinguishing between inventors and engineers, with traits being inherent and difficult to alter.

✦

Importance of practical innovation and delivery in technology.

18:32

Evolution of computer technology from early days to present emphasized.

Steve Jobs' influence in pushing boundaries and striving for continual improvement highlighted.

Development of groundbreaking products like the iPod discussed.

Significance of taking incremental steps towards the future and being adaptable to change in tech industry emphasized.

✦

Success after global expansion: Company saw sales and profits double after reaching global market.

20:16

Rewards of success: Received stock options and jet airplanes, leading to creation of iPhone.

Emphasis on taking risks: Speaker highlights importance of taking risks and making gambles to drive change in future or society.

Skepticism towards crypto: Despite making money from Bitcoin, speaker expresses skepticism towards crypto and its future.

Preference for practical solutions: Speaker prefers focusing on practical solutions to solve general problems rather than speculative technologies like Quantum Computing.

✦

Discussion on time, leap years, and the Gregorian calendar.

22:49

Emphasis on the precision and complexities of measuring time accurately.

Historical origins of the calendar and its adaptations over time.

Importance of understanding leap years and their correction in the calendar system.

Gratitude for space exploration efforts and the need to care for lower Earth orbit as a finite resource.

✦

Sustainability and public perception of environmental issues.

25:10

Emphasis on the finite nature of satellite placement in orbital highways close to Earth.

Comparison of space pollution to pollution on Earth, highlighting lack of awareness.

Mention of abundance of satellites launched without return.

Accessibility of space data through platforms like Privateer and Wayfinder.

✦

The speaker discusses the issue of space debris, highlighting the vast amount of debris orbiting Earth, including over a million pieces smaller than a centimeter.

28:23

The danger posed by these debris is compared to flying through a million little bullets.

Tools like astrograph and wayfinder are mentioned as solutions to track and clean up space debris.

The importance of addressing this problem to make space safe and accessible for humankind is emphasized.

✦

Challenges in Space Policy and Liability.

30:34

Collisions in space pose a threat to Earth, satellites, and infrastructure due to the lack of clear rules and regulations for space operations.

The segment emphasizes the need for defined right of way and responsibility for space debris cleanup.

Effective policies and legislation are necessary to encourage responsible behavior among space actors.

✦

Lack of compliance with space laws and treaties.

32:50

Over 40% of registered objects not following regulations.

Enforcement is a major issue due to lack of clear authority.

Transparency suggested as a solution to deter irresponsible behavior.

Governments responsible for enforcing laws, even for private companies.

✦

Ownership and Control of Satellites in Space

35:46

SpaceX has nearly 3,000 satellites at 500 kilometers altitude, raising concerns about congestion and access to space.

Space is being exploited without property tax, leading to complex international space laws.

People operating in space represent their country, akin to flying a flag.

Lack of clear governance in space poses challenges for enforcement and control of vehicles providing services on Earth.

✦

Concerns about the sustainable use of orbital resources and the potential risks of reaching capacity limits.

39:26

Space assets provide cost-effective operations compared to terrestrial companies due to minimal regulations.

Efforts are underway to develop the concept of 'orbital carrying capacity' to prevent saturation and ensure sustainable use of orbital highways.

The behavior of utilizing space assets needs to change to avoid losing the benefits they offer.

✦

The impact of increasing space vehicles on near Earth space capacity.

41:15

Space vehicles production may lead to capacity constraints in near Earth space.

Dependence on space technology for everyday activities on Earth, such as GPS navigation systems.

Potential loss of satellite systems could significantly impact various applications and services.

Proper infrastructure and management are needed to prevent exhausting space available for putting objects into orbit.

✦

Impact of Global Navigation Satellite Systems.

43:26

GNSS systems have revolutionized transportation, Earth observation, climate change monitoring, hydrology, and agriculture.

Fragility of GNSS systems and risks associated with satellite failures are highlighted.

Lack of regulations for managing space debris and increasing space rush due to low launch costs are concerning factors.

Emphasis on the importance of careful management of satellites and space activities to prevent disasters.

✦

Privateer's focus is on space safety and accessibility through providing free tools to prevent crashes in space.

46:14

The goal is to democratize the space situational awareness market and encourage collaboration among space operators.

Contributions from the community lead to enhanced capabilities for all parties involved.

Sharing state vectors and telemetry data allows for better observation and more efficient operations in space.

Ultimately, the entire space environment benefits from these collective efforts.

✦

Privateer's mission is to disrupt the current space industry model and provide global services to keep space accessible.

49:45

The company aims to undo the damage caused by human activity in space and on Earth by addressing these issues now.

Privateer emphasizes the importance of mitigating future risks and undoing past damage, such as cleaning up space debris and managing satellite disposal.

✦

Importance of monitoring and measuring space debris to prevent and mitigate impact.

51:25

Emphasis on data and information sharing to create a common pool of evidence for effective decision-making.

Circular economy in space involves reusing, recycling, disposing, removing, and avoiding abandonment of objects.

Providing accurate information to various parties with different incentives and goals for a sustainable space environment.

Understanding intent in space activities to address potential harm and ensure responsible behavior.

✦

Ambiguity of intent in outer space activities and the importance of considering cultural and social contexts.

55:41

Prejudging actions as malevolent can lead to conflict escalation and misunderstanding of intent.

Nuanced perspectives are crucial in navigating conflicts in space and preventing misinterpretation.

History of space exploration has been driven by scientists with benevolent intentions for the betterment of humanity.

Understanding intent is key to preventing disharmony and promoting peaceful cooperation in space endeavors.

✦

Challenges and complexities of space exploration involving multiple parties and governments, with a focus on transparency and communication.

57:43

Potential risks and lack of control crewmembers may face due to political actions.

Evolution of industries becoming more complex as they grow, drawing parallels to democratized content.

Emphasis on the responsibility and dedication of individuals in advancing ideas within an industry.

Space exploration involves various regulations and government involvement, adding layers of complexity to the process.

✦

Importance of inclusivity in the space industry.

01:00:00

Emphasizing the need for a diverse range of talents and perspectives to address global challenges effectively.

Recruiting individuals with empathy and problem-solving skills from all backgrounds.

Value of accessible opportunities for innovation and recognition of human intelligence across different communities.

Steve Jobs quote highlighting the potential of everyone to contribute to technological advancement.

✦

Importance of empathy and unity in space exploration.

01:03:37

Apollo 11 astronauts' message of peace and love contrasts with current commercialization efforts.

Space should be seen as a frontier for all, not just billionaires, to ensure collective participation and success.

Privateer's potential failure is linked to humanity's failure to recognize space as a shared opportunity.

Emphasis on creating a cooperative and inclusive approach to space exploration, moving away from competition and gatekeeping.

✦

Emphasis on Inclusive and Cooperative Nature of Companies in Space Industry.

01:05:18

Accessibility is highlighted as a key factor in bridging the gap between different regions and ensuring equal opportunities for all.

Importance of open access and affordability in space exploration is discussed, with the potential to revolutionize our lives.

Privateer is praised for its focus on empathy and cooperation in driving progress in the industry.

Discussion on past collaborative endeavors in other domains like land, air, and ocean exploration.

✦

Societal behaviors towards the environment and lack of empathy driving mistreatment of land, air, and ocean.

01:07:38

Emphasis on creating incentives, such as carbon taxes and new technologies, to encourage eco-friendly choices.

Comparison between Tokyo's societal responsibility for garbage disposal and New York City's littered streets.

Mention of past jokes about space trash leading to current environmental concerns and the concept of tragedy of the commons.

Importance of aligning incentives for positive behavior towards the environment.

✦

The importance of addressing the increasing amount of space debris and potential risks to space traffic and safety.

01:11:34

Coordination of efforts is crucial to ensure a sustainable space environment.

The need for Space Traffic Control similar to air traffic control to manage the growing number of objects in space.

The possibility of space debris intersecting with air or shipping traffic underscores the importance of proactive prevention measures.

✦

Importance of Responsibility and Stewardship in Space Operations.

01:13:26

Emphasizes Hawaiian concepts like Pono and kuleana.

Calls for free services like air traffic control and space situation awareness for safe practices.

Mentions past incidents like Apollo 13 to highlight risks in space travel.

Criticizes lack of empathy in certain space operations and advocates for greater consideration for human lives.

✦

Importance of Words in Shaping Society

01:16:10

Emphasis on untranslatable words from different countries to showcase the significance of language.

Discussion on accessibility in business and aligning good deeds with profit-making.

Encouragement to solve hard problems and pursue moon shots for the benefit of society.

Emphasis on working on impactful solutions in a fleeting lifetime and striving for ambitious goals.

✦

Discovery of binder with designs for Apple I and Apple II, engineering PhD manifesto, and handwritten song lyrics in Waz's garage.

01:18:12

Importance of making a difference and impact in the world through meaningful projects.

Emphasis on projects enabling steps towards Mars exploration.

Admiration for Elon Musk's vision for an interplanetary civilization.

Importance of taking small steps now for a significant leap in the future.

✦

Growth of the Commercial Space Sector

01:21:10

Government spending is moving towards commercial rockets, driving rapid growth in the industry.

Companies and individuals are innovating in space to address problems early and capitalize on the exponential growth in technology and exploration.

Private companies like Privateer are developing cutting-edge technologies, sparking curiosity about future advancements in space.

It is important to understand and address space-related challenges now to prepare for the future advancements in space exploration.

✦

Discussion on sustainability and gratitude for platform provided to share insights on important topics.

01:23:21

Transitioning from California to Colorado and the challenge of maintaining cleanliness in new house.

Imagining space debris turning into harmless substances like gummy bears.

Importance of understanding atoms and creating new materials with unique properties.

Concerns about space debris management and efforts to raise awareness.

✦

Conclusion of the video segment.

01:25:50

Viewers are thanked for listening to the a16z podcast and encouraged to subscribe on YouTube for exclusive video content.

Hosts express excitement for future episodes.

Farewell message is given.

Video ends with a music outro.

00:00so all of the little orange dots are

00:02active satellites all of the teal dots

00:04are dead satellites and everything

00:06that's pink or purple or gray is some

00:10form of catalog space debris we should

00:12all be very alarmed these are live data

00:14this is not a simulation this is not a

00:16drill we've made a giant ball of trash

00:19all right so today we have a new episode

00:21of the a16c podcast and boy do we have a

00:24treat for you we have all three

00:25co-founders of privateer in the house

00:27that is Alex Fielding Dr Mor Baja and

00:31wait for it Steve Wozniak yes that is

00:33the Steve Wozniak that you recognize

00:35from apple whose latest Venture is

00:37focusing on cleaning up the next

00:39Frontier this episode actually starts

00:41with woz and let me tell you chatting

00:43with him was truly a treat truly an

00:45honor he starts by sharing how Privateer

00:47came to be and why a focus specifically

00:49on space is so crucial today including

00:53his own Reflections from the very first

00:54space race and how it helps spur the

00:56area of modern Computing which clearly

00:58he was very very involved in so many

01:00years ago but I love that he also shared

01:02a bunch of personal stories from his

01:03days back at Apple including how him and

01:06Steve Jobs thought about iteration on

01:07the way to the Future the differences

01:09between a Visionary and inventor and an

01:11engineer and even what prompted him to

01:14want to build a computer in the first

01:15place and while naturally I loved my

01:17time with Moz I think you're really

01:19going to enjoy the rest of the

01:20conversation with Alex and morba because

01:22here's the thing many people consider

01:24space to be the next Frontier and

01:26equally this almost infinite Horizon to

01:29explore but the reality is that not all

01:32space is the same and there are

01:34strategic zones that don't only matter

01:35up there but also down here on Earth low

01:38earth orbit sometimes referred to as Leo

01:40is one of those regions a Zone filled

01:42with satellites that support life on

01:44Earth from agriculture to climate to

01:46navigation to defense and much more and

01:49unfortunately these live satellites are

01:51not alone in our space highways Leo is a

01:53Zone that's getting increasingly clogged

01:55with space debris and we're basically

01:56polluting our skies the same way we're

01:58polluting Our Land

02:00and in this episode we discussed just

02:01how much debris is up there and hint

02:04it's probably a lot more than you think

02:05we talk about how this challenge is

02:07expected to progress as launch costs go

02:09down and by the way they go down

02:11exponentially and ultimately what

02:13infrastructure is missing in this

02:15gradual ecosystem from tracking to

02:17Global treaties to maybe even a sharing

02:19economy of satellites by the end of this

02:21episode listeners should be more

02:22equipped to understand how the

02:24infrastructure up in space vastly

02:26impacts our life on Earth why this

02:28infrastructure hasn't historically been

02:30shared how the preservation of this

02:32ecosystem is so crucial and of course

02:34how Privateer is providing a map to

02:37better understand and fix this issue oh

02:39and you'll also learn what the hell

02:41elon's orbit is one more thing if you

02:43like this topic we also did a demo with

02:45Alex on their wayfinder product and that

02:47is up on our YouTube channel some

02:49exclusive video content and if you like

02:51the episode in general we may release

02:53some bonus audio with Alex where he

02:56shares what it's been like to work with

02:57Boz for over two decades they originally

02:59met at Apple alright let's jump in the

03:03content here is for informational

03:05purposes only should not be taken as

03:07legal business tax or investment advice

03:09or be used to evaluate any investment or

03:11security and is not directed at any

03:13investors or potential investors in any

03:15a16z fund for more details BC a16d.com

03:19disclosures

03:24[Music]

03:30well Steve it's an honor to be talking

03:33to you today I want to say a personal

03:34thank you for all that you've done with

03:37personal Computing modern Computing I

03:40can say for myself the fact that we're

03:42even doing this online or the fact that

03:44I've been able to work remotely for most

03:45of my career is really a testament to

03:48the work that you and many others have

03:50done in this space that have completely

03:51changed the world so again thank you for

03:54that thanks so much bookcase where I can

03:56even thank myself for it and all the

03:58great things we have exactly I want to

04:01start with a question

04:02um which is around this idea that you

04:05really can work on anything today right

04:07you've left your legacy through Modern

04:09Computing and now you're at a place

04:11where you could work on anything in the

04:13world or nothing in the world right you

04:15could also just chill and and move on

04:18why have you chosen to focus on space

04:21case and specifically space

04:23sustainability and why are you doing

04:25that now today in 2022 well first of all

04:28I sort of had I had that freedom and I

04:30was just designing products for five

04:32cents each for people all over

04:33California incredible things that you

04:35know starting big Industries but so I

04:38always felt that way I'm doing what I

04:40want to do and not doing it for starting

04:42big companies or getting super wealthy a

04:45lot of other people have different

04:45motivations

04:47um as far as so so first of all I've

04:48always been into doing good for the

04:50world because every company starts you

04:52talk to anybody with any little startup

04:53and oh we're doing this is how it's

04:55going to improve somebody's life or some

04:57people's lives so that's that's you know

04:59not easy but I like to go overboard and

05:02rate it a little bit higher on the the

05:04balance of the good you're doing versus

05:07um other real other reasons like um and

05:10figure out a way to make money on it but

05:12um Alex Fielding is really the one that

05:15brought me into Privateer he's been my

05:18best friend for a long time and he was

05:19hanging around all these space people in

05:21Maui where he lives and we're always in

05:24communication he was best man at my

05:26wedding and uh and so he started

05:28approaching me about this space and

05:30there's there's issues in space you know

05:32when you start you look at some of the

05:34close ones everyone hears about space

05:35debris and it's danger but that's that's

05:38a kind of long pass for what we're

05:41really about and uh I go and Alex the

05:44way he knows me is you know the type of

05:46person he is he sees the world better

05:49than just a logical spreadsheet guy

05:51because one time we were starting a

05:53startup company involving GPS and we

05:57couldn't find the name okay maybe it's

05:58good we're going to print the GPS's of

06:00cops copdetector.com cop this and that

06:02doc everything is taken that has words

06:05and I said a little secret and back my

06:07head without saying anything to the

06:09other members of our board I said I I

06:11had a web a web domain was.com I got it

06:15in the early days of the web great

06:17domain and I don't use was.com because

06:19it means your commercial and org means

06:22you're non-profit and I'm a non-profit

06:24type so I secretly what what words can I

06:28make up that use woz I said wheels of

06:30Zeus and nobody what a crazy name for a

06:32company you know and then but Alex he

06:35said yeah that's great and it actually

06:37is a great name regardless and it was

06:38from we got was.com and I was really

06:41proud of that because instead of uh

06:43lawyers you know dealing with licensing

06:45a domain name I was the seller and I was

06:47the buyer I just hand wrote it and

06:49signed it didn't pay the huge fees that

06:51you know um the lawyers have and Alex

06:53would only approach me knowing how I

06:55think of good things for the world the

06:57outcome has to be good and not just it

06:58makes sense as a product it'll simplify

07:00life that's not enough for me and

07:02there's always Alternatives so

07:04um and Alex also I've got to know him as

07:07the best judge of people what they're

07:09about what they want to do and in

07:11business development knowing how to

07:13convince others that we've you know what

07:15we've got and knowing what the the sub

07:17markets are and all of the aspects of a

07:20business so I often call them that he's

07:22the smartest person I know because I'm

07:24you know more in technology than I am

07:26business and he sees a fuller long-term

07:28picture about things in the past I've

07:30worked with that with Alex before you

07:33know on startups and of course all my

07:34life on everything and follow him and we

07:36stay in very close touch all the time so

07:38you can look up in um a magazine article

07:41or get an idea from it and here's a

07:42company we could start

07:44but this was a case where you're better

07:46off if you have a person you know saying

07:49what is good about something why it is

07:50personal recommendation like even seeing

07:53a movie is worth more than you know just

07:55reading the synopsis of it so um Alex

07:58sees a long-term picture you know for

08:00capitalizing you have to stay alive you

08:02have to be alive and for iterations of

08:04products working through and modifying

08:06what's there and being in the right

08:08place you've got to keep the product

08:09Market fit correct and um so anyway uh

08:13Privateer is just the finest Collective

08:15of people dude thanks to Alex I could

08:18imagine in various roles even you know

08:20communication roles and all that and I

08:22it's wonderful to be involved in the

08:24startup we're very early seed stages so

08:26far Alex also attracted other good

08:29people find someone who gets them and he

08:30found mariba jaw at uh who's a professor

08:33University of Texas in Austin and mariba

08:36has a standing reputation in this field

08:40of space and objects in space and things

08:42like that and he is just like so much of

08:45a genius I almost shut up and shy back

08:47because he knows all the the details and

08:50the aspects that you can refer to that

08:51make sense so I thought this was big

08:53Alex was very strongly into a lot of the

08:56space operations lately are going more

08:58private than public so Privateer is a

09:01good name based on that I think you're

09:03right I got to speak to moriba and Alex

09:05yesterday both Geniuses both who really

09:07understand the importance of space long

09:10term I want to ask you about space and

09:13the perception of it or the perception

09:15of its importance because I think

09:16there's a lot of opinions about whether

09:19it's important whether it's frivolous

09:21and the investment there you got to see

09:24how this first Space Race impacted

09:26technology thereafter how it helped

09:29modern Computing there's many other

09:31dovetails whether it was Lasik eye

09:33surgery or water filtration that came

09:35out of the investment into space many

09:37many decades ago

09:39I'd love to just hear your perspective

09:41on why it's important again today and

09:45why you think it's important for people

09:46like morba like yourself like Alex to be

09:49investing in this particular space or

09:51industry I grew up in what is called

09:53Silicon Valley now but back then it was

09:55Santa Clara Valley space came to our

09:58area our area of the world of South Bay

10:00Area

10:01um before long before it was called

10:03Silicon Valley you know in the 50s and

10:06and Lockheed Martin moved in that was

10:08there was a space race going on a

10:09competition with Russia to launch

10:12um you know orbiting satellites into

10:14space and people in the space and and

10:16even to get to the moon and the the

10:19thing is

10:20um it cost a lot of money back then huge

10:22amount of money to launch rockets and

10:24Lockheed Martin in Sunnyvale California

10:26was looking into you know missiles that

10:29you could launch accurately even from

10:30like submarines and I don't know my

10:33father worked there but I don't really

10:34know too much about it he would never

10:36talk about any projects He was working

10:38on so we had a space race and um and as

10:41well as the defense um for missiles and

10:44you know one thing is back then it cost

10:46so much launcher rocket you had to pay a

10:49fortune Fortune like billions of dollars

10:51they almost you know for every gram of

10:53mass you had to pay a fortune and the

10:55more you could make you could lighten

10:57the load of the thinking part the

10:59electronics that thought or the little

11:01computer parts of thought

11:03um the more you could lighten it the

11:04better and that's what chips did CHiPs

11:06instead of having you know 20

11:08transistors you know after a while you

11:10could have one tiny little chip the size

11:12of one transistor the weight of one

11:13transistor doing the job and that really

11:15boosted everything including uh digital

11:17and computer technology but making it

11:19lower cost for us it was not low cost at

11:22first new technologies like chip making

11:24were so high a price so I grew up in

11:26this and uh you know and of course we

11:28always look up to space because we were

11:30in the science field you know I've

11:32always read books and watched movies and

11:34and especially if you're kind of like

11:36one of those exploring Pioneers Oh my

11:38God following you know uh either you

11:41know shows like Star Trek but you know

11:42flying things into space and and uh

11:45beating the uh politicians you know with

11:48with your your own cleverness and

11:50ability to maybe go out and harness

11:51water from the rings of Jupiter um today

11:54we're sitting here and we're looking up

11:57to space and we're saying there's a lot

11:59of stuff up there now and it's very

12:00important in our life and the

12:01stewardship of space this is what I got

12:03from moriba it's just you know

12:05understanding that we have to be kind of

12:07responsible all of us and I expect that

12:10that um Privateer will be very involved

12:12in Communications between different

12:14parties even different countries and

12:16probably you know even getting into

12:18things like treaties involving space

12:20some kinds of agreements so we can work

12:22better and understand what we have it's

12:24all connected because we down on Earth

12:25I'm sure marimba told you this way down

12:27on Earth use so many things from space

12:29from you know you know weather review to

12:32um flight conditions to uh

12:34um uh GPS to our cell phones so these

12:38are important things in our life and

12:40that has to be protected somehow

12:43um so anyway that's our start and you

12:45know you start a startup and you get

12:46some seed money but then you have to

12:48think of what's the right product and ah

12:51here's an idea and it's got to come from

12:53people that also think a lot differently

12:54and that's one of the nice things about

12:56Silicon Valley a lot of us are that way

12:59and the thing is my house gets real

13:02messy sometimes and what do I want to do

13:04if it's messy I look I want to clean

13:06things up so I can get to it at least

13:07find things where they are what drawers

13:09they're in and that's the way I look at

13:11you know I you feel it in your own house

13:14you're stumbling over some junk on the

13:15floor and it's there I'll kick it over

13:17in a deeper corner and this and that but

13:19we want to you know have some ways to

13:20keep space more orderly and understood

13:22by all and sharing information being

13:25very open and transparent is important

13:29to us you know and you have to imagine

13:31your house you get around it you kind of

13:34know where you've got all the stuff to

13:35jump but somebody else comes in randomly

13:37should things make sense to them you

13:39know even if you say go make me some

13:41coffee what should they be have an easy

13:43way to find the way to make coffee in

13:44your house and that's how I think of

13:46space very much that we've got to keep

13:48it understandable and organized for

13:50everyone well something you spoke to

13:52there is the ability for these

13:54Technologies to be exponential right

13:56what we see today from private tier

13:58might not be what it is in five years or

14:0050 years and I had the privilege of

14:03talking to Alex yesterday and he told me

14:05the story about you from the very very

14:07early days where when you were younger

14:09you basically told your dad

14:11Hey Dad I want to have a computer

14:12someday and he said because at this time

14:15this is true he said you're crazy

14:16computers cost as much as a house and

14:18you told him well Dad I'll live in an

14:19apartment and you seem to really really

14:22just want a computer at that time

14:24um to your point earlier starting Apple

14:26was not about building one of the

14:28biggest businesses in the world it was

14:30wanting a computer and wanting other

14:31people to have that

14:33I'm curious just to know from a personal

14:34perspective what did you see back then

14:37was it truly just like a personal need

14:39for this device or I want to you know

14:42dig into that early woz brain and and

14:44hear your perspective on what was going

14:45on in those early days a lot of great

14:48things come personally and I learned

14:49even I taught middle school and

14:51Elementary School for eight years

14:52straight full time full time like every

14:55hour of the day up to seven days a week

14:56no press allowed so it's not a big story

14:58but I learned that it was less important

15:01that you're speaking facts and knowledge

15:02from your mouth knowledge with less

15:04importance than the motivation of my

15:06students to learn had to find ways to

15:08make it fun to make it understandable to

15:10make it um you know like stories that

15:13tell what's in their head and that's

15:16when I decided you know what wanting

15:18something is even more important man I

15:19go back I wanted a computer it was in my

15:21heart and I didn't know if I ever ever

15:23get it I didn't know if designing

15:24computers would ever be a job for

15:26engineers because we were back in the

15:27analog days you know smart math stuff

15:29and but I kept it in me and eventually I

15:32found the path to do it so I was was

15:33built on a computer for myself and

15:36turned out that the point in time luck

15:38is sometimes there's a lot of luck in

15:39business success and the point in time

15:41that I was going to build that computer

15:42no matter what it was worth turned out

15:44to be worth a ton and you know and then

15:46a lot of times when people are

15:47successful in technology I've seen them

15:49look off into space because we almost

15:51all come from science backgrounds and

15:53even when we when Apple went public

15:55around 1980

15:57um our president Mike Scott maybe 81 or

15:59two

16:00um started a little company with some

16:01people I even I funded into that he's a

16:03friend and actually we did a launch of a

16:06rocket from out at Sea from somewhere so

16:09I don't know there were a bunch of

16:10Rocket Engineers around saying it is

16:12possible to do with let's say money now

16:15governments have all the resources you

16:16know but they're stale in their

16:18approaches because of it here's what we

16:20can do very successfully very stably we

16:22know we'll get there if we put enough

16:23money in and test enough and Private

16:27Industry works so differently I've only

16:28been in private and I just love having

16:30ideas and thinking about them and you

16:32know thinking different and the

16:34creativity that comes about when you

16:36think my gosh I could do something they

16:38haven't done before or maybe the

16:39resources are cheaper the sorts of huge

16:42Computing devices are cheaper to make

16:44and maybe certain types of motors and I

16:46can do something that hasn't been done

16:47before sensors that didn't exist before

16:50and let's you gotta always shoot for the

16:52top being you know one of the leaders in

16:54the world and that's just how we think

16:56so a lot of times when I think of

16:58government versus private I also come

17:00down to types of people which is very

17:02important and you have an inventor who

17:04could be given a job and they've gone

17:06through all the the right they have the

17:08right skill sets and they've gone

17:09through the right University you know

17:10majors and phds and and uh and they're

17:13an engineer and they can design what you

17:15sign them but then there's the inventor

17:17the amount it goes along thinks oh my

17:19gosh is there something I'm interested

17:20in that I could do and would it work and

17:23maybe it hasn't been done before and can

17:24I make a different make a difference in

17:27the world and the inventor wants to run

17:29into a laboratory hook up some demos

17:31real quick try to get some sort of pro

17:33prototype to show that the idea is good

17:35is right and that's the sort of person I

17:38am it's in your personality you don't

17:39change it you don't just say tomorrow

17:40I'm going to be an inventor today I'm an

17:42engineer you're usually one or the other

17:44so um it's that's that's another

17:47advantage of Alex you know putting

17:48together privateers we're looking for

17:50the inventor types you know yeah

17:52definitely I mean another word sometimes

17:55people use for inventor is visionary and

17:57I'm curious in the early days when you

18:00were just out of passion creating these

18:02computers

18:03could you see the path to today of

18:06course you can't picture everything with

18:07so many advancements since those early

18:09days but like how far along were you

18:13actually envisioning and I'm asking this

18:14partially because even if we apply this

18:16to space a lot of the things that people

18:18talk about in the realm of space Also

18:21sound kind of like science fiction right

18:22they probably won't be eventually but

18:25I'm trying to understand also how you

18:26how far along you see or the

18:28extrapolation that maybe goes on in your

18:30brain when you're originally talking

18:32about yes a computer with 200

18:33transistors and now we're talking

18:35billions and and the applications that

18:37have kind of sprung from that I myself I

18:40was really a great engineer in certain

18:42field and I was designing the hottest

18:43products in the world for Hewlett

18:44Packard without even having a college

18:46degree yet and then you have you talk

18:48about Visionary Vision see in the future

18:50uh that's different than invention

18:52though inventor really wants to actually

18:54go in and create something today that

18:56didn't exist and not have a vision

18:58that's 50 years out or 10 years out

19:00because that's science fiction a lot and

19:01everybody can talk about and say later

19:03on see I proposed it but it was possible

19:05to do with money and the engineer says

19:07feet on the ground what can I actually

19:09do and build and deliver to people when

19:11we started Apple you know we had a great

19:14product it was going to be all the

19:15revenues of Apple for the first 10 years

19:16but we had such a we had a great lead

19:18and we were comfortable we could do what

19:19we wanted but the amount of memory that

19:22would hold a song

19:24costs you know we were back in the days

19:26of tape it cost about a million dollars

19:28a good fraction of a million dollars do

19:30you think we saw today where you have

19:31advice in your hand with a thousand

19:33songs on it even

19:35um no Steve Jobs was very instrumental

19:37in always taking us do what we can do

19:40today try to do something a little more

19:41tomorrow a little more and we you can

19:43have a lot of failures too if you'll

19:45have one great product bringing in the

19:46revenues but the whole idea was we'll

19:48move towards the future and we'll be a

19:50part of it and we'll be in with it and

19:51after all you look back and it was kind

19:53of invisible the steps we took but they

19:55all led to today and then there was some

19:58um you know some of that invention stuff

19:59we got to Steve Jobs's Apple II was

20:02really the iPod music music and uh and

20:06that was the first time oh my gosh up

20:08till then our company valuation was the

20:10same as the old Apple two days and then

20:12all of a sudden we sold it to everyone

20:14in the world and our sales doubled and

20:16our profits doubled and the board gave

20:17Steve Williams and stock options and jet

20:20airplanes that was the turning point and

20:22then the iPhone was even better better

20:24and it was based on the iPod not the

20:27reverse not a phone it will include an

20:28iPhone more like it's an iPod but you

20:30get a phone with it and so it's hard to

20:33say that you really see the future more

20:35than a year ahead when you're working a

20:36year ahead on your projects whenever I

20:38tried to see the future a year ahead I

20:41knew it one year ahead because I was

20:42working on it if I look two years ahead

20:43made some guesses oh my gosh other

20:45aspects other Technologies and all came

20:47out of from outer space and people's

20:49desire which way they wanted to go was

20:52different it's very hard to predict even

20:53two years ahead successfully the way I

20:55work nowadays we got huge big companies

20:57so it's kind of like you know anything

20:59that work on is going to be successful

21:00it's not it's not as much a it's not as

21:03much of a gamble but you know the real

21:06real inventors like to gamble like to

21:08prove the world that they can do more

21:09than you ever imagined definitely well

21:12it's if there's no risk no reward right

21:14so to really change the future or change

21:16society you do need to make some of

21:18those gambles I have one final question

21:20for you which is that you obviously were

21:23very very significantly involved in

21:25modern computing you now are focused on

21:28Space

21:29um everyone has limited resources but

21:31are there areas or problems in the world

21:33or industries that you are fascinated by

21:36that maybe you wish were talked about

21:37more or you think that more Builders

21:40more entrepreneurs more Founders should

21:42be paying attention to

21:43um you know I read the same things as

21:45everyone else you know you know we talk

21:46here about Quantum Computing you can go

21:48either way but I'm into things that

21:50actually

21:51you know so like I said feet on the

21:53ground that actually come through and

21:55you know solve all the general problems

21:56so so I'm a little skeptical of a lot of

21:58these things

22:00um crypto and its place in our futures

22:03been really hard to pin down because I'm

22:05kind of for change but I've I don't

22:07invest I don't even invest in crypto I

22:09don't invest in stocks you know I uh I

22:12made a lot of money on crypto but only

22:13because I had to experiment with it you

22:15know when Bitcoin was young I like

22:16things that don't don't add up and

22:18necessarily make sense I mean Bitcoin

22:20who created it who owns it what company

22:22you know there is no such thing how many

22:25Bitcoin can ever be created can we

22:26always create more and more to make

22:27ourselves wealthier no it's got a finite

22:29limit it's mathematical I like things

22:31that are mathematical and pure it's like

22:33you say when is your birthday oh it was

22:36uh two days ago August 23. no the

22:40birthday should be when the earth is

22:41around the Sun at the same place you

22:43have to take leap years into correction

22:44and more important leap years they fix

22:46themselves every four years you have to

22:48take into account there's a leap year

22:49correction that's over a 400 year cycle

22:51and your age as you get older you've

22:53actually moved your real natural nature

22:56birth date even later in time so I like

22:58to do things that are met based on math

23:00real trueness it's only instead of

23:02starting the year on something called

23:03January 1 back when um you know months

23:06were named by the four the Romans they

23:07didn't and with Roman numerals they

23:09couldn't give a day of the year so they

23:11came up with months and then they stole

23:12a day from February for Julius Caesar

23:14that's July that day for Augustus and

23:17that's August and this is the calendar

23:18we use you know and we that's all that's

23:21because our human minds are kind of weak

23:22if you take everybody into account not

23:24everybody's a super scientist and our

23:26minds are weak that we can deal with the

23:28sort of calendar that we use but I'm in

23:29this you know you would start the year

23:31on something like the winter solstice or

23:33the summer solstice and and uh you know

23:35something has a real thing you can look

23:37out to the skies and say is real well I

23:40want to say thank you for taking this

23:41time and also thank you for the work

23:43that you Alex Marva are doing on

23:45Privateer as I started researching for

23:48this episode I was mind blown by the

23:50amount of debris that we have above us

23:52but also how much is being launched the

23:55cost of launch going down and just

23:56imagining this future where lower Earth

23:58orbit is a finite resource and it's

24:01important for us to take care of so

24:03thank you for your work there thank you

24:04for everything you did with modern

24:06Computing as well as I mentioned because

24:08it's completely shaped the way that

24:10people in my generation have been able

24:12to live and work thanks your summary of

24:14space was excellent oh thank you but

24:17there's more to it than things we're not

24:19going to go up and try to gather things

24:20you know and bring them down some people

24:22are trying that we just want to make the

24:24information available so people could do

24:27it if they want it yeah well something I

24:29talked to Alex about yesterday is the

24:31fact that many people don't even have

24:33the terminology or the imagery for

24:36what's up there right um and and

24:38therefore it's it's hard for people to

24:40care about that because they can't

24:41imagine it and they also can't

24:42articulate it but now even with terms

24:44like I don't know if you've seen Google

24:46Trends even the term space

24:48sustainability is something that I

24:50hadn't heard of before but it is you

24:52know slowly ticking up and even just the

24:54fact that again we have some of that

24:55terminology what really changes public

24:57perception in areas like this is

24:58sometimes there's a spike due to

25:00something a lot of stuff in the news

25:01that all of a sudden people are now much

25:03more aware than they were before and

25:05it's hard to predict when those will

25:06come you know we'll do our best we'll do

25:08our best to just educate people and keep

25:10them informed all right Alex morba

25:13thanks for taking the time welcome to

25:15the show aloha aloha yeah thank you yeah

25:18we've got Alex calling in from Maui more

25:20about where are you calling in from

25:21Austin Texas and I want to start with a

25:24question about space that's what we're

25:25going to be talking about and us on

25:27Earth We're All distributed but Earth

25:29feels so small compared to space right

25:32even when we talk about space we use

25:34Dimensions like light years which are

25:37just magnitudes more than what we talk

25:38about on Earth and so it feels like

25:41space is this infinite Dimension this

25:43infinite void but as I learn more about

25:46space it sounds like that might not be

25:48the case is space this infinite void

25:51that we have access to yeah okay so look

25:53I mean all of outer space is probably

25:56infinite but where we put satellites uh

25:59that's actually finite in fact we put

26:02satellites on very specific orbital

26:04highways they're very close to Earth in

26:06fact where are you right now Steph I am

26:09in Encinitas California so I'm closer to

26:12low earth orbit

26:13than I am to you and I think that's what

26:16people just don't realize wow that is

26:19fascinating and I think to your point

26:22space in theory is infinite but there

26:24are certain aspects or certain parts of

26:25space that are really really essential

26:27and something you've talked about before

26:29morba is that we as humans have started

26:32to pollute air land the ocean and now it

26:36sounds like we're doing the same with

26:37space but for some reason it seems like

26:40most people know about the pollution in

26:43air ocean land why don't we know more

26:46about the pollution happening in space

26:48well I think that uh you know most

26:50people they just aren't aware of how

26:52many satellites we have launched the

26:54fact that most of the stuff that we

26:55launched just doesn't come back where it

26:57takes a really really long time to come

27:00back if it's in the sufficiently low

27:01earth orbit also people just haven't had

27:04a place to just go online and just kind

27:06of see the stuff and you know now that

27:08we have Privateer of rolled out

27:10wayfinder we're just like a click away

27:12from people seeing all these dots you

27:15know all around the earth I know you

27:17originally created something called

27:19astrograph and I heard you say on an

27:21interview that actually seeing the

27:23amount of stuff some of it being

27:25valuable some of it being junk actually

27:27caused you to cry because it was so I

27:31guess devastating or maybe let's hear

27:32from your words why did that trigger

27:34that kind of emotion and seeing that my

27:37career started at NASA's Egypt

27:38propulsion lab working on Mars missions

27:40but when I moved to Maui in 2006 I

27:43started working with the Air Force

27:44research lab with the telescopes on top

27:47of Mount Haleakala and all of a sudden

27:48at that time in 2006 there were only 1

27:52200 working satellites and 26 000 pieces

27:55of garbage and I'm like what like this

27:58doesn't make any sense holy cow like

28:01this is ridiculous how is that how is it

28:03okay for like 96 of the stuff that we

28:07put in space to turn out to be garbage

28:10like we don't see that in other domains

28:12we don't we don't have as acceptable

28:14okay we're gonna put a bunch of stuff

28:16out here on the land but 96 percent of

28:18the stuff we're gonna put out is going

28:19to be trash like we don't do that Alex I

28:21want to hear from you how much space

28:23debris are we talking sounds like it has

28:26increased with time but I don't know if

28:28many people have a sense of the sheer

28:30magnitude of stuff up above us so we're

28:33talking about over a million pieces of

28:35debris that are smaller than a

28:37centimeter but the only thing we can

28:39really see from ground-based radar stuff

28:41that's bigger than the size of a

28:42softball so you know when when morba

28:45says there's these 26 000 things or you

28:47know whatever that that number is

28:49precisely those are things the size of a

28:52softball doing roughly 18 000 miles an

28:54hour and you know MV squared still MV

28:58squared so it's it's a real problem

29:01because the little pieces of debris the

29:04things you can't see can really hurt you

29:05in space you wouldn't get on a passenger

29:09jet if you got told when you boarded the

29:11plane there's a million little bullets

29:13flying around and this is going to make

29:15your life potentially very miserable we

29:17just don't know

29:18um hope you make it like that would be

29:20yeah but that's kind of what's going on

29:22with space flight the first challenge is

29:24you have to be able to see everything so

29:25that we can put together a plan on how

29:27to solve for that and astroograph

29:30wayfinder these are tools to help

29:32Enlighten the world and kind of bring

29:35attention to the problem first so that

29:37we can all align on what the best

29:39Solutions are for cleaning up space

29:42which is kind of one side of private

29:43series mission of making space safe and

29:46accessible for humankind and I want to

29:49get to how we solve the problem but I

29:51also want to speak a little bit to what

29:53is at stake here so you're talking about

29:55about thousands of things that we can

29:57monitor but potentially millions that we

29:59aren't able to monitor

30:01how often does this stuff actually

30:03Collide and then also how often does

30:06that impact

30:07us on Earth whether it be things

30:09actually coming down to earth or

30:11impacting the satellites or

30:13infrastructure that we use on Earth up

30:15there in space I mean there's a lot of

30:16collisions right and there's some that

30:18we actually can see and we can clearly

30:21identify that was caused by debris or or

30:23even in the case of a satellite hitting

30:26an active satellite or vice versa or you

30:28know two objects in mirrored space

30:30colliding it happens a lot more than we

30:32would like to think and there's also

30:34reasons why we don't talk about it as a

30:36community why we don't just openly talk

30:38about our our problems in the space

30:40Community the way that we would in other

30:41academic communities or places where

30:44we're more data driven and some of that

30:46actually surrounds liability and risk as

30:48an example many insurance policies in

30:50space on the Riders exclude space debris

30:53from a covered loss I'm not saying that

30:56people do it I'm probably implying it

30:59but if your insurance policy said we

31:02don't cover things hitting your car

31:04windshield that are rocks then whatever

31:06cracked your car windshield probably not

31:08a rock

31:09so these are these are challenges we're

31:12also working around which is the

31:13evolution of space policy and the space

31:16act and treaties evolving these things

31:18were based in maritime law uh and I

31:21guess that kind of made sense for the

31:23time because we needed a framework for

31:25how we interoperate in space but that is

31:28actually creating a challenge because we

31:30don't have even the simplest Notions of

31:32like right of way or you're in space

31:36you're going to come very close to

31:37colliding with someone else's object

31:39whether it's dead or alive who's who's

31:40got the right away well I mean obviously

31:42if it's dead you better move but if

31:45you're both active who's got the right

31:48away these are very simple constructs on

31:50the ground you wouldn't get in your car

31:51and not know that but in space we're

31:54operating in the blind we don't have

31:56these rules fully defined as a community

31:58and yet we keep launching more and more

32:00things without solving those right and

32:03yeah that that seems extremely important

32:05in terms of if we do want to clean up

32:07the debris in space who is responsible

32:09for that and since there are so many

32:11actors at play even if you have these

32:13tracking systems that you and others are

32:15creating so we know what's going on to a

32:18larger degree how do you even solve that

32:20problem how do you create the right

32:22policy or legislation for people to

32:24become good actors because right now it

32:26seems like even if someone wanted to be

32:28a good actor they don't even have the

32:30rule set to do that well it's like the

32:31International Space act and treaties I

32:33mean we all sign this thing when we go

32:35to space when we put satellite up we all

32:37sign this and it includes things like

32:39not weaponizing space not doing

32:41generally bad things in space not doing

32:43bad things to each other in space and

32:45yet you know more of a proof this

32:47definitively with his work that he did

32:50at UT Austin with IBM on a project

32:52called arcade where they looked at how

32:55many objects in space are in or out of

32:57compliance with the space act and

32:58treaties

32:59and the number out of compliance is over

33:0240 percent of those registered objects

33:04are out of compliance well part of the

33:06problem is enforcement like if you stick

33:08a speed limit sign up that says 65 miles

33:10an hour and we're all doing 120 and

33:12there's no cops and don't get me wrong I

33:13don't want to be a traffic cop of space

33:15you may not follow the speed limit sign

33:17it might look more like a good

33:18suggestion

33:19and space you know I kind of think

33:21people just cross their fingers put them

33:23behind their back and sign the space act

33:24and treaty and just went on about life

33:26and said who's going to call me on it

33:28because there is

33:30more but if there's 40 that is not in

33:33compliance

33:34who is the space cop I have some good

33:37news and bad news the good news is I

33:39know the answer the bad news it's the

33:41same countries that are non-compliant I

33:43think the thing that really needs to

33:45happen uh stuff is

33:48transparency if people know that they're

33:52being watched and that the evidence is

33:55being brought to the Public Square that

33:58might be a deterrent it might help curve

34:01people's behavior and that sort of stuff

34:02in space because ultimately in terms of

34:05international law the responsibility

34:06falls on State's party to the treaty

34:09which are governments so governments are

34:11responsible governments need to be the

34:13enforcers but if nobody actually knows

34:17if there's no evidence that you know

34:19companies that are being licensed by the

34:21governments are misbehaving then it's

34:23kind of like who cares but it's not just

34:25governments launching stuff into space

34:26right they're they're private businesses

34:28that are doing the same and you know but

34:30but the thing is in terms of

34:32international law all the responsibility

34:34for liability damage harmful

34:36interference doesn't fall on the

34:37shoulders of companies right it's on

34:40governments that give them license and

34:43authorize them to actually operate in

34:45space I'm curious to know though we've

34:47seen the price of launching a kilogram

34:49into lower Earth orbit go down

34:51dramatically over the years I think it's

34:53something like it was like over ten

34:55thousand dollars to in the hundreds in a

34:56couple decades and so naturally we can

34:59expect that to just a lot more stuff is

35:01going to be launched into space I hear

35:03you that there is some sort of

35:04compliance where they need the

35:06regulatory bodies to enable that but how

35:08do we see the amount of stuff whether

35:11it's from government or from private

35:13actors how is that changing in terms of

35:15just the sheer amount being launched

35:17into space and how is that going to

35:19change moving forward here's the deal

35:21stuff there's a lot of money to be made

35:23from having robots that we call

35:26satellites in space physics tells us

35:29that two things can't occupy the same

35:31space at the same time and there are no

35:33Deeds so it's a first come first serve

35:36kind of stuff at this point if you want

35:38to launch a satellite that goes above

35:41500 kilometers of altitude

35:44in today's world you have to coordinate

35:46with Elon because Elon has almost 3 000

35:49satellites at 500 kilometer altitude and

35:52it would be wise for you to talk to Elon

35:54before you try to go through the orbital

35:56shell that he has

35:58it doesn't belong to him it doesn't

36:00belong to SpaceX it doesn't belong to

36:02anybody but he's operating there and by

36:05all intents and purposes the United

36:08States

36:09basically is

36:11occupying a shell at 500 kilometer

36:14altitude and that makes people very

36:17angry and so when I say oh well people

36:20need to you know curve their uh behavior

36:23and you know there needs to be

36:24enforcement and all this stuff countries

36:26are like well if if it's first come

36:28first serve I want to get there first

36:30I'm going to authorize as many people as

36:33quickly as possible to operate in that

36:35space and once it's there it's like oh

36:37sounds like you can't launch your thing

36:39here because you know it's congested you

36:41know what morba said Is Right on the

36:43money right and money is is part of the

36:45issue because we're we're really strip

36:47mining space and I think what the

36:50average

36:51person I mean I would put myself in the

36:53average person bucket what most of us

36:56are not really aware of is that you know

36:58there's no property tax in space right

37:00so once you're there once you pay that

37:02cost to launch once you pay the

37:03regulatory cost to be able to be there

37:05like more of a sad this is International

37:08Space law which it's similar to Flying

37:11an American flag off the back of your

37:12boat right you represent the United

37:14States when you leave that port and you

37:16leave your country you are not exactly

37:19an asset owned by the US government but

37:21you're representing the United States

37:22wherever you go the same thing's true

37:24for people operating in space and that

37:26is changing the nature of how people

37:28play those rules and where they're

37:30domiciled and I don't think the average

37:31person's realized yet that by strip

37:33mining space what we're really doing is

37:35we're occupying space in a way that no

37:38one actually controls or truly governs

37:40or enforces so that means once your

37:43vehicle is in space if it provides a

37:45service to us on terrestrial Earth it's

37:47actually operating more efficiently more

37:50cheaply than if the asset was on the

37:52ground and regulated by a single state

37:54or nation-state you know country this is

37:56something that is going to change our

37:58lives fundamentally forever because the

38:00terrestrial companies that don't that

38:02have services that could be operated

38:04from space by choosing to strip mine

38:06Space by using that space unwisely and

38:10unsustainably they're actually taking

38:12advantage of the fact that the

38:13regulation and the enforcement doesn't

38:15exist and they're doing it at a time

38:17that I'm not saying that they'll be

38:19grandfathered in forever but they're

38:21certainly taking advantage of it now and

38:24they're doing it without any recourse

38:25once a new frontier opens up and I'm not

38:28saying space is the final Fringe here

38:29but it is the frontier of of our lives

38:32right now there's no putting the genie

38:34back in the bottle so you know it's only

38:36a matter of time before the terrestrial

38:38companies that are disrupted by space

38:40companies or other companies operating

38:42in space will realize and their

38:44shareholders will realize oh wow

38:47we just you know we just got disrupted

38:49by something flying above our head that

38:51we have absolutely no control or even

38:53taxation on it is as we talked about

38:55earlier a limited resource and I'm

38:57curious it sounds like there are these

38:59specific highways or orbits that certain

39:03satellites can operate within as we

39:05talked about before it's not an infinite

39:06resource at least within that dimension

39:09is there a reality where we've

39:12completely exhausted that resource like

39:13if people do continue to just ship stuff

39:16without any sort of coordination between

39:18parties is there a reality where at some

39:21point we just say we actually can't fit

39:23any more satellites or we can't use this

39:25resource anymore it's completely

39:26exhausted yeah I mean one of the things

39:28that we're actually working on is trying

39:32to develop something that we call

39:34orbital carrying capacity so just like

39:36there's a carrying capacity to a plot of

39:40land or an ecosystem a carrying capacity

39:42to a regular Highway

39:44carrying capacity to orbital highways

39:46and I think the best way to think about

39:48it is when do you know this capacity is

39:51exhausted or saturated you know that the

39:53orbital carrying capacity is past its

39:57limit when our decisions and actions can

39:59no longer prevent bad things from

40:01happening so if we're trying to do

40:03everything possible to avoid things

40:05colliding with each other or to avoid

40:07interfering with each other and we can't

40:09help but see those things happen by all

40:12intents and purposes

40:13that orbit is no longer able to provide

40:16us with the benefits that we intended

40:18and we we have lost the capacity to use

40:21it and so I predict with absolute

40:24certainty if our Behavior doesn't change

40:26there will be orbital highways whose

40:30capacity will be saturated and we'll

40:32we're just going to see an increasing

40:34amount of undesirable outcomes occur now

40:37this is this is one of those areas where

40:39um to put this in perspective if you

40:42took a shell of the earth and you said

40:44from like 250 kilometers to a thousand

40:47kilometers up

40:48we placed objects in a little 10

40:51kilometer bubbles right how many of

40:53those bubbles can we stack between 250

40:55and a thousand around Earth it's about

40:58110 million

41:00to put that in perspective the Auto

41:02industry on Earth did about 80 million

41:05cars last year alone

41:07so one year's space vehicle production

41:09when we're at ramp that we are like

41:11similar to The Auto industry would

41:13completely exhaust

41:15that spacing in near Earth space to the

41:19point that we couldn't put anything else

41:20up if we didn't have the Precision and

41:23the ability to maneuver and the traffic

41:25management and control and all of the

41:27underpinning infrastructure which today

41:29is largely missing if we don't fix that

41:31we would be capacity constrained in a

41:34single year if you put it in automotive

41:36industry terms that's crazy that is

41:38crazy that's not infinite at all right

41:40that's very funny it is yeah extremely

41:43finite

41:44I I want to put into perspective for

41:47some folks who may be thinking that

41:49space is somewhat of a frivolous

41:51Endeavor what we depend on on earth

41:54right even if people don't believe in

41:57space being the next Frontier and

41:58becoming a multi-planetary species what

42:01are the things that we depend on every

42:03single day on Earth even potentially

42:06that we're depending on on this call

42:07that rely on space and maybe also

42:12how much redundancy is there so if we

42:14were to use GPS as an example like do we

42:17have backup on backup on backup or is it

42:19really like one system that is very very

42:22fragile picking the thread on global

42:24navigation Satellite Systems I don't

42:27know have you been to a place where they

42:29sell like Maps these days uh that you

42:32fold out maps and you know compasses

42:35people don't make those things anymore

42:36the way that we navigate and find our

42:39way from point A to point B is really

42:42all dominated by satellite systems at

42:45this point and the people that knew how

42:48to navigate uh and stuff without that

42:51system are either long gone those

42:53companies don't exist anymore certainly

42:55our youth has no clue whatsoever this

42:58new generation of people they have no

43:00idea how to get from point A to point B

43:02in the absence of satellites Pretty much

43:05telling them uh how this has happened

43:07and not only that stuff the technology

43:10that we use today May many of the

43:12applications rely uniquely on position

43:16navigation and timing Services provided

43:19by these satellites and if that went

43:20away the app itself just stops working

43:23everything from produce and and think

43:26you know food across the country or

43:29across the globe transportation systems

43:31like all these things stopped working

43:33and that's just from Global navigation

43:36Satellite Systems now it's not even

43:37talking about Earth observation with I

43:40don't know monitoring climate change

43:42hydrology and agriculture Wars in

43:45Ukraine that sort of stuff yeah I mean

43:47when when was and I started wheels of

43:49Zeus 22 years ago which tells you how

43:51old I am there's dust coming off me this

43:53is actually this is actually a black

43:55jacket this is my dust

43:57when we started wheels 22 years ago we

44:00had 2 000 satellites on orbit and half

44:02of more debt they were already pieces of

44:04trash and we were building GPS locators

44:07that were similar to Apple tags 20 years

44:09too early we were we we ended up uh

44:12building a business that serviced a

44:14customer that was not the those of us

44:16that use like apple text to track things

44:18or tile or whatever the reason I tell

44:20the story is that 22 years ago we had

44:22about 30 GPS satellites and we had an

44:24SLA for GPS that was like 95 let's put

44:28that in perspective if your power

44:29company at home only gave you an SLA at

44:3195 you would really hate your power

44:34company right your power company gives

44:36you an SLA that's like 99.9 uptime and

44:39that's still not great but it's pretty

44:40good we haven't really grown that

44:42constellation in 22 years it's still

44:44about a 30 GPS satellites that give us

44:47the better United States assets I'm not

44:48counting loan assets these are the

44:50things that we use as United States

44:52assets that enable our GPS systems don't

44:55get me wrong there's other things that

44:56enhance GPS there's other things that

44:58give you other capability to triangulate

45:00but there's no other global system like

45:02that available to us as the masses on

45:04Earth at 95 uptime you lose one

45:08satellite you're in trouble you lose two

45:10you're in a little bit more trouble you

45:12lose multiples that are in the same area

45:14you're in a lot of trouble I mean people

45:15say three but it's closer to four to get

45:17an actual positional fix so these are

45:20these services and systems are somewhat

45:22fragile in the lower door bit Things Are

45:26flying over our heads much faster and

45:28they're much less certain because we

45:31have less observations on them less

45:33often that makes things an environment

45:36where we have to be much more mindful of

45:38how we manage it we don't have those

45:40regulations in place yet so the space

45:42Rush is going to continue especially

45:44when you have launch costs like you said

45:46earlier like five thousand bucks a kilo

45:48I can put a satellite in space for less

45:50than I could pay our attorneys to do the

45:51paperwork like let's let's think about

45:54that that's crazy that is crazy that is

45:57very crazy so it sounds like we have a

45:58bunch of compounding effects there's a

46:00lot of stuff already in space a lot of

46:02space debris some of it we can't track

46:04because it's so small there's going to

46:06be an exponential nature to more things

46:08being launched into space and no

46:10coordination or at least not the

46:11coordination that we need so Alex what

46:14is Privateer doing in this space to help

46:17mitigate some of these issues well we're

46:19doing two

46:21things in two very broad categories

46:23we're focused on Space safety and

46:25accessibility and we think that they're

46:27totally interconnected right and part of

46:30that is is what you actually kind of

46:31alluded to and touched on which is that

46:33my three-year-old daughter knows how to

46:35share better than we know how to share

46:37in space

46:38like you know like more of us said how

46:39many more cameras do we need overflying

46:41keys right now it's great that we have

46:43them it's great that we can provide the

46:45capability it's kind of sad that we

46:46don't do a very good job sharing you

46:48don't need 50 cameras over fine a region

46:51if you know how to actually effectively

46:53utilize one asset so privateers focused

46:55on safety through things like wayfinder

46:58and our conjunction software that helps

47:01people not crash in space

47:02and we're doing that in a really open

47:05way to the community that encourages

47:07interaction and involvement amongst kind

47:10of space operators so that we coordinate

47:12and we cooperate in space and and the

47:15reason for that is it should make a ton

47:17of sense there has been a history in

47:19space of companies serving this

47:21community that look like extortionists

47:23they look like the mafia give me a

47:25dollar and your satellite won't crash in

47:27space you know give me a dollar and I'll

47:29make sure that my Exquisite observation

47:31keeps you from getting into trouble

47:33those days have to come to an end really

47:36fast and we aim to democratize the space

47:38situational awareness Market by bringing

47:41these tools to humankind for free by

47:43enabling and empowering the community so

47:45that we have a single source of Truth

47:46and knowledge and we're not aiming to

47:49own it we're aiming to enable it and

47:51Foster it and be good stewards of our

47:53space environment the other part of this

47:54is accessibility and for that we're

47:56putting up a constellation of our own

47:58satellites which I hope doesn't sound

47:59too hypocritical how do you get that

48:01data how are you actually convincing a

48:04magnitude of parties to contribute to

48:06that database it's it's more Mutual

48:08benefit than it is quid pro quo because

48:11what we're basically saying is

48:12contribution results in capability if

48:16you contribute your state vectors and

48:18Telemetry and you share with us where

48:20your vehicles are in space we share with

48:22you the capability to make sure that we

48:24all have eyes on those things and that

48:26we can all observe them better and we

48:28can operate more efficiently and more

48:29safely in space and that benefits the

48:31entire Community because we can't put

48:33our own assets up in an environment

48:34that's unknown the risk is too high and

48:37the risk to space operator is operating

48:39you know has more of a said Elon does

48:41have kind of his own orbit right now uh

48:43and you'll absorbit elon's orbit and

48:46it's it's a pretty it's pretty good

48:47orbit to be in so I think that um you

48:51know it's not a hard pitch to get Space

48:52operators to contribute when we are

48:55living at the transitional point of

48:57space situational awareness and domain

48:59awareness and traffic management and

49:01ultimately traffic control becoming

49:04services that actually should be

49:06provided by governments that have

49:08traditionally only been provided by

49:10Private Industry I mean imagine that

49:12getting on a passenger jet thing and

49:14having you know getting told when you

49:16board the plane Air Traffic Control

49:17needs 10 bucks so we don't hit another

49:19plane while we're in Flight that's

49:21actually what's happened in the space

49:23world for over 20 years you've had to

49:24pay bespoke companies to keep you from

49:28bumping into one another and that is

49:30like a mafia tactic so we think

49:32disrupting that and using these data

49:35from a variety of operators they're

49:36tired of being extorted right they've

49:38been writing checks for a long time

49:40without getting a lot of benefit out of

49:41it

49:42these are Global Services that we as

49:45humans need so we can keep space

49:47accessible so that someday we can we can

49:50utilize space better to cure planet

49:52Earth and some of the the ales that we

49:54have caused on it and also so that we

49:56can become a space Varian civilization

49:57which that might be kind of

50:00mission two but you got to do the first

50:02thing and you know as morbus said we've

50:05done all this damage to to the land to

50:08our you know our atmosphere here to our

50:10oceans

50:11I'm an optimist right I believe that if

50:14you did that damage one step at a time

50:16you can undo the damage one step at a

50:19time but we have to we have to call that

50:21right now and say this is the moment

50:23this is the moment where we can undo

50:26that damage before it scales so

50:29exponentially that it will be much much

50:30harder to undo morba I want to hear from

50:32you on this idea of undoing the damage

50:35so excuse my lack of knowledge in this

50:37domain but is what Privateer is doing

50:40something that just mitigates future

50:43risk or harm or how do you actually undo

50:46some of the damage that we have already

50:48caused like can you can you move

50:50satellites can you take them down can

50:52you actually you know do the equivalent

50:54of like the great garbage patch uh

50:56cleanup

50:57in space or how do we think about fixing

51:01what's already been done one of the

51:03things that we believe at Privateer is

51:06really facilitating a circular economy

51:08when it comes to space when it comes to

51:10the debris you know Upstream things or

51:13debris mitigation and we can get to

51:15prevention of debris if we're monitoring

51:18and measuring the stuff like you can't

51:20know something unless you measure it so

51:22data and information that measures the

51:25stuff and making that a common pool of

51:27evidence widely available so that people

51:30can draw conclusions from consistent

51:32evidence like that's step number one

51:34going down the chain of this whole

51:36circular economy first base looking at

51:39can we with our platform provide folks

51:43with dated information that helps them

51:45reuse and recycle stuff on orbit uh is

51:49kind of the next thing the next rung uh

51:52that that's that's certainly you know a

51:54downstream solution but that's possible

51:56for us to do the next thing that we

51:58don't like so much but um is also and

52:02the next option is then disposal and

52:04removal

52:06um uh which you know certainly companies

52:08like Astro scale

52:10um and looking at clear space in Europe

52:12facilitating them with the information

52:14to be successful at the removal of these

52:17sorts of things

52:18the thing that we that we don't really

52:21want to you know have to keep on doing

52:23is is the abandonment abandoning the

52:26object there right so from most

52:28important least important you know it's

52:30mitigation and prevention reuse recycle

52:34disposal removal and then abandonment

52:37and we want to be able to provide

52:39actionable accurate precise information

52:42to people all along that to facilitate

52:46and pretty much motivate the development

52:49of a real circular economy in space so

52:51absolutely we can do that I want to hear

52:53from you more about this idea of intent

52:55because something that strikes me is is

52:57that there is just so much happening in

53:00space and I've heard of The Kessler

53:02effect and the idea that like one

53:03Collision could Cascade into many

53:04collisions and there is an element of

53:07certain things can happen negatively in

53:10space without any bad intent and then

53:12there are other things that can happen

53:14with malintent and and how do you use

53:17this information to understand the

53:20intent of many many different parties

53:22with different incentives different

53:23goals in space yeah so it's back to if

53:26you want to know something you have to

53:27measure it kind of thing and um you know

53:30opportunity to cause harm is kind of the

53:33easiest one because it depends on who

53:36who's who's where and and where can you

53:39know where can they be at any given

53:40point in time capability is harder uh

53:44because then you need to know something

53:45about you know the the physical the

53:48operational functional characteristics

53:50of these objects you know is it carrying

53:52a laser does it have a grappling arm you

53:54know all this other stuff but then it's

53:56like okay if if it's close to me it has

53:58a grappling arm

53:59is it going to try to purposely harm me

54:02that that's the intent piece and there

54:03is no sensor that measures that you know

54:06there's no intentometer and so this is

54:08yeah I mean this is where we need to

54:11actually understand uh you know

54:14anthropology social science cultural

54:16context to say hey I mean people behave

54:20in certain ways depending on where they

54:22were born how they were raised and we

54:25all don't have the same values and stuff

54:27like that but in general we aren't

54:29trying to in general harm each other but

54:32some people are uh because every domain

54:34of human experience has malicious

54:37behavior I mean to think that

54:40um if we see it on lands with banded

54:41tree and on the Seas with piracy and all

54:43this other stuff

54:45um even planes get hijacked to think

54:46that space is this benevolent

54:48everybody's having pillow fights and

54:50tickling each other is ridiculous but we

54:53need to be able to somehow infer infer

54:55the intent but not be so prejudiced to

54:59just assume everything is evil because

55:01that's the other thing is that because

55:04the intent piece is so ambiguous people

55:07are using Prejudice to just get rid of

55:10that uncertainty and they're saying hey

55:11if if the opportunity and the capability

55:13is there if I'm like if I'm a U.S

55:15satellite and there's a Chinese

55:16satellite that is in the same orbit not

55:19even close in the same orbit as me and

55:21has a grappling arm that thing is going

55:23to try to shock me

55:24that becomes this escalatory

55:28conflict-ridden sort of behavior that

55:30will end up in the complete disharmony

55:33of the use of outer space so what we

55:37want to do in Privateer as Alex said

55:39with the data and information that we're

55:41aggregating is also incorporate the

55:44nuances of cultural lenses and social

55:47science to say hey the fact that this

55:50thing is there and has the grappling

55:52hook don't be so quick to press on the

55:54intent lever but if somebody wants to

55:56blow up a satellite in an orbit that

55:59clearly jeopardizes another country

56:01maybe intent is a little bit easier to

56:04infer on that sort of stuff if everyone

56:06wanted to share in space and wanted to

56:08do what we were doing we wouldn't have

56:10to launch any of our own satellites we

56:11could just ask them why don't you just

56:13give us access to your stuff and we'll

56:15give access to the entire community

56:18um but it doesn't totally work that way

56:20I I think there's also my two cents here

56:23is that the history of space most of the

56:25people who went to space were scientists

56:28and researchers and people who have very

56:30very very good intent because you don't

56:32really send warfighters and politicians

56:34to space you send you send people to go

56:36do research and most of that research is

56:38focused on the betterment of humankind

56:40or had been you know one small step

56:42right the the problem is getting to the

56:44giant leap

56:46and we we did the one small step we've

56:48probably even done two and three small

56:50steps but we haven't gotten to the giant

56:51leap and right now those middle steps

56:54include a lot of contentious Behavior

56:56between a lot of people with their own

56:58self-motivations and interests Steph I

57:00remember when you you put out the

57:02personal user manual oh I love that

57:04thanks and and that was that was a

57:07beautiful like transparent

57:09no one has to guess what your own

57:11self-intent is because you published

57:13your own personal user manual anyone

57:14that would like to interact with you

57:16knows what your values and some of your

57:18goals are that you actually connect with

57:19so that other people can interact with

57:21that too it was beautiful that you were

57:23willing to be that transparent yeah

57:25thank you

57:26um there is no space user manual right

57:29and there's no country defined user

57:32manual uh for space so

57:35the interpretation of the current

57:38actions can come with a lens that are

57:41not the people that actually go on orbit

57:43it's the people that direct the people

57:44on orbit like I'm not supposed to say on

57:47this podcast anything that sounds or

57:49rhymes with Prussia

57:51but

57:53um when we had an ASAP attack last year

57:55in November

57:57and I I probably shouldn't even go here

58:00the the cosmonauts from Ross Cosmos that

58:03were aboard the space station at the

58:05time they had no damn idea

58:08that their government was going to blow

58:11up an asset and put them and the world

58:13in Peril right if they did they

58:16certainly wouldn't have been up there no

58:17right so

58:18and and I can only imagine being their

58:20crewmates going like dude WTF and I'm

58:24sure they were like didn't know right

58:26um and and I'm sure had absolutely no

58:29input

58:30on the actions of politics and posturing

58:34and warfighting and all those those bad

58:36behaviors that we you know as morba said

58:38there's there's a lot of there's 25

58:40shades of space let's put it that way

58:42well I mean um so it reminds me of what

58:45we see everywhere in communities what's

58:48happened with content When Things become

58:49democratized the original people who

58:52were in that space were just so

58:53dedicated so obsessed with the thing

58:55they really had care and felt a

58:56responsibility to advance that

58:58particular idea or industry and then of

59:01course as it gets larger more people get

59:02involved it becomes more complex and

59:04then I think space has this very

59:06fascinating layer of governments

59:08regulation

59:09um which you know anytime you're trying

59:11to involve so many parties or countries

59:14or states it just becomes incredibly

59:16complex and even throughout this

59:18conversation more but I've heard you

59:20talk about social science we've talked

59:22about government regulation the space

59:24side or like the technical side what is

59:28most needed in this space I'm going to

59:30ask you you more about in terms of the

59:31types of talent the the types of people

59:34that Privateer is looking for I've also

59:36heard you say that you're a blue collar

59:37PhD and you're again you think space is

59:39for everybody so who are the types of

59:41people that you would love to see get

59:43more involved in space so

59:46um I've heard a lot of talk about stem

59:49and the focus on stem and then steam uh

59:53kind of stuff and I've stopped for the

59:58most part using the word science and

01:00:00using the word engineering because it is

01:00:02not inclusive at the end of the day

01:00:04science is about creation of knowledge

01:00:08and Engineering is about creation of

01:00:10solutions and when I go into rooms

01:00:13across the globe whether it's in rural

01:00:16areas or in places with affluent people

01:00:18in blah blah it's like and I say hey who

01:00:21is who who's into creating knowledge and

01:00:23who's into like creating Solutions

01:00:24almost everybody raises their hands so

01:00:27the thing is we wanna we don't want to

01:00:30presuppose where the best ideas to solve

01:00:33these Wicked problems across Humanity

01:00:35are going to come from we want to

01:00:37basically make that accessible to

01:00:40recruit to recruit empathy across

01:00:42humanity and for those people that can

01:00:45have and experience that empathy towards

01:00:47solving these problems lower the entry

01:00:50bar to get their Solutions as quickly

01:00:53and as efficiently as possible to solve

01:00:56these things this is all to say that you

01:00:58know I've met people

01:01:00in very rural areas where the way that

01:01:03they have solved problems and created

01:01:05knowledge for their own group their own

01:01:07tribe these sorts of things I'm like wow

01:01:10I mean I got a PhD I don't think I could

01:01:12have come up with that one anytime soon

01:01:14I'm mesmerized by the stuff that people

01:01:17can come up people inherently humans

01:01:20we're pretty damn smart so so the thing

01:01:23is that's what we want to allow access

01:01:25that's what we want to recruit yeah it

01:01:28reminds me of my favorite Steve Jobs

01:01:29quote which I know Alex you had the

01:01:31privilege of of working alongside him

01:01:33way back in the day is is I'm gonna

01:01:35butcher it but it's something along the

01:01:36lines of everything that exists around

01:01:38us was built by someone no smarter than

01:01:40you and so I I love that notion that

01:01:42sometimes we even have the curse of

01:01:44knowledge and that some some industry

01:01:46like space may sound very intimidating

01:01:48to people who don't associate themselves

01:01:50with something that you might consider

01:01:51technical but sometimes those are the

01:01:54people that you need in the industry

01:01:55Alex I'm going to ask you a question

01:01:57which is

01:01:59Privateer has a lot of ambition there

01:02:01are many things that you're working on

01:02:02that sound very exciting that sound like

01:02:05they're going to change things in space

01:02:07on Earth what are your biggest

01:02:10challenges if Privateer were to fail for

01:02:13some reason over the next few years why

01:02:15would that be well more of it actually

01:02:17hit it right on the head it's it's a

01:02:19lack of empathy because apathy is really

01:02:22the enemy of empathy and we have created

01:02:25an environment in space where people

01:02:27really don't give a it's going to

01:02:28sound like I'm picking on somebody I'm

01:02:30not picking on anybody but when you're a

01:02:32billionaire and you put on a cowboy hat

01:02:34and you go up on a rocket that doesn't

01:02:35feel like all of us could do it it

01:02:37doesn't feel like our own personal

01:02:39journey is tied to their Journey when

01:02:42when the Apollo 11 astronauts touched

01:02:44down on the surface of the Moon or at

01:02:45least when two of them did their

01:02:46messages to humanity while the entire

01:02:48world watched and you know I'm too young

01:02:51to have watched it live but I've

01:02:52certainly watched the recording because

01:02:54the message from the astronauts

01:02:57were not just to their families and to

01:02:59all Humanity but they were messages of

01:03:01peace they were messages of Love there

01:03:03were messages of understanding there

01:03:04were messages of hopefulness they were

01:03:06messages of what was going to come in

01:03:08the the future that this new frontier

01:03:10was going to enable humankind to reach

01:03:12new levels you know even the messages

01:03:13that we delivered onto the lunar surface

01:03:16were from like 50 plus countries that

01:03:19did not get along with each other but

01:03:21those world leaders left similar

01:03:24messages

01:03:25about our humanness and the nature of

01:03:28that so that if it were ever seen and

01:03:30someone ever interpreted it they would

01:03:33know that our motivations were really

01:03:34good and really inter interconnected

01:03:37space right now that message got lost

01:03:41along the capitalist uh route to

01:03:45monetize space if Privateer fails it's

01:03:48because Humanity failed to recognize

01:03:50space as a frontier for all of us and

01:03:53instead continue to put it in this

01:03:54little compartment that's for

01:03:56billionaires and very very special

01:03:58people who have tons of resources and

01:04:01that makes them special somehow I don't

01:04:03know how but I guess it does

01:04:04uh and that means it's only for them

01:04:07but the problem is people have not yet

01:04:10realized that space will be likely to

01:04:13govern their actions if we don't

01:04:14actually participate so it has to be

01:04:17participatory in nature if Privateer

01:04:19fails we all fail

01:04:21because the technology we're bringing

01:04:22the market we're doing it in a way that

01:04:25is truly

01:04:26cooperative and is designed to encourage

01:04:30participation

01:04:31so we're not we're not becoming the

01:04:33gatekeeper to space we're becoming the

01:04:36enabler to space and we're not competing

01:04:39directly so you know if you look at this

01:04:42Marketplace that some people would put

01:04:44privateer in the bucket of space

01:04:45situational awareness and domain

01:04:47awareness and traffic management I would

01:04:49argue it's not a market

01:04:50because the commercial companies that

01:04:53are there they don't make uh giant

01:04:55amounts of money they are not the mega

01:04:58successful you know companies that you

01:05:00you would think of and we are much more

01:05:02alike than we are different we're all

01:05:04trying to work on a problem for Humanity

01:05:06we don't I don't think if you talk to

01:05:08four or five companies that are in the

01:05:09SSA bucket and you ask them who's your

01:05:11competitors we're actually all friends

01:05:13right

01:05:14um it's it's a much more inclusive

01:05:16environment that people would give it

01:05:18credit for because we're trying to do

01:05:19some good things there are people

01:05:21outside that spectrum that are off off

01:05:24in the gray area that don't don't have

01:05:25that view

01:05:26but I think for the most part we do and

01:05:30accessibility is going to be the gateway

01:05:32drug to encourage us all to see our

01:05:35Humanity from a different perspective

01:05:37and a perspective that

01:05:38you don't have to travel there to get

01:05:40the perspective right like I mean when I

01:05:42was a kid I mean our family was very

01:05:44broke and I would say like the World

01:05:46Book Encyclopedia was the version of

01:05:48Google that we had and we were missing

01:05:49some volumes unfortunately which is why

01:05:51I'm so poorly versed on biology but you

01:05:54know there's there's certain parts of

01:05:56the encyclopedia I missed

01:05:58um by accident and it was also outdated

01:06:00by the time I got it that we need to

01:06:02change that for space so that somebody

01:06:04in the third world has the same access

01:06:07and the same capability as somebody in

01:06:09the first world without a penalty and

01:06:12without additional friction or cost it

01:06:14needs to be open and accessible that's

01:06:16the thing that was missing from going

01:06:18from the ocean to the Stars

01:06:20you know you can build a boat in your

01:06:21backyard and toss it on the ocean if you

01:06:23want right we all watched Moana I've got

01:06:25a three-year-old uh you know this is

01:06:27this is what you do we we haven't seen

01:06:30humankind yet maybe until now be able to

01:06:34do that travel

01:06:35um to the Stars the way that we can do

01:06:37that on the ocean but it is coming very

01:06:39very soon and very affordably and it

01:06:42will change our lives forever

01:06:43indefinitely great to have this

01:06:45conversation uh with you Steph like to

01:06:47have it again at some point definitely

01:06:49if you're keen and then yeah we'll Alex

01:06:52will keep it rolling thanks Marva

01:06:56it's amazing that Privateer is based

01:07:01around this idea of empathy cooperation

01:07:03Etc

01:07:04I would push back a little bit or I want

01:07:06to hear your reaction to this which is

01:07:08that there have been many other

01:07:10endeavors let's just use again like Land

01:07:12Air ocean which were also collaborative

01:07:15Endeavors of many parties on Earth and

01:07:18there were signs for a very long time

01:07:20that we were mistreating that Land Air

01:07:22and ocean uh but it didn't change

01:07:25people's behavior empathy wasn't the

01:07:28driver of reversal if that makes sense

01:07:31and so I'm curious to know how you're

01:07:33thinking about that I know if we use

01:07:35carbon as a parallel now people are

01:07:38talking about carbon taxes they're

01:07:40creating new technologies that make it

01:07:41actually more economical to be

01:07:44more kind to the environment versus less

01:07:48kind so how do you think about that

01:07:49within space how do you design the right

01:07:52incentives so it doesn't rely on

01:07:54people's good will but instead the

01:07:56incentives are just aligned where most

01:07:58people will act that way whether they

01:08:00have empathy or not it's it's going to

01:08:03come down to enforcement I mean

01:08:04unfortunately there there is the carrot

01:08:07which is we all get to participate

01:08:08together and I'm a big believer that

01:08:10that carrot and that that reward and

01:08:12that incentive is really huge and that

01:08:14will encourage people's behavior to do

01:08:16the right thing if we can enable that

01:08:17without making it more punitive for them

01:08:20to do the right thing right it has to be

01:08:23just as easy to recycle your your things

01:08:26than it is to throw it out your car

01:08:29window while you're driving and this is

01:08:30something that is also societal and it's

01:08:33Behavior related in nature right I

01:08:35married a therapist it doesn't show at

01:08:37all you know if you if you travel to

01:08:39Tokyo you don't see trash cans on every

01:08:42street corner because there's societal

01:08:45notion that you are responsible

01:08:47for taking care of your garbage you're

01:08:49not going to toss it on the street like

01:08:51I mean I can't even imagine what it

01:08:54would be like to throw some trash in the

01:08:55street of Tokyo now in contrast New York

01:08:58City hey one of my favorite cities

01:09:00there's a trash can on every single

01:09:01street corner and there's trash

01:09:03littering the streets so to your point

01:09:05how do you encourage people to take the

01:09:07thing and just put it in the trash can

01:09:09it's societal it's behavioral it's

01:09:11trained and the incentive structure

01:09:13isn't there we all acknowledge that it's

01:09:15trashed but there's always this notion

01:09:17that someone else will clean it up and

01:09:20to be really candid

01:09:22you know when was and I started Wheels

01:09:24Asus 22 years ago

01:09:26or 21 years ago we acknowledged that

01:09:28half of the things in space that we

01:09:29could see that we could sense and detect

01:09:31were trash and we used to joke we'd be

01:09:33the world's first kind of space

01:09:34environmental engineer as we would be

01:09:36the the uh you know we would be the the

01:09:40guys the sanitation Engineers on the

01:09:42back of the space trash truck putting

01:09:43satellites into the compactor we would

01:09:45go do that as our next career it was a

01:09:47joke at the time but it resulted in the

01:09:49tragedy of the commons 20 years later

01:09:51because now we've got a million little

01:09:53things whizzing around that we can't

01:09:54even see and sense and detector track

01:09:57and the number of things that we can see

01:10:00in sensing detect and tract is

01:10:02exponentially evolving into a giant you

01:10:04know ring of trash a ring of trash

01:10:07that's a it's a it's a Johnny Cash yeah

01:10:09yeah no I know it's it's it's also just

01:10:12quite the picture to imagine this ring

01:10:15of trash circling around us above I want

01:10:17to end on a more positive note because I

01:10:20know it can be quite scary candidly to

01:10:23think about what's happening above us

01:10:25all the things that we rely on down here

01:10:27that come from above but it is also

01:10:29inspiring to hear that you and others

01:10:31are trying to fix the problem they're

01:10:33trying to coordinate the many parties

01:10:35involved here contrary to my previous

01:10:37question about private you're failing if

01:10:40Privateer were to succeed alongside

01:10:42others who have similar missions

01:10:44what would that look like what would the

01:10:47Space Landscape look like in let's say

01:10:4810 years if we are able to achieve that

01:10:51kind of coordination it'll be driven by

01:10:54accessibility and the desire for people

01:10:56to access space resources I I think

01:10:59largely self self-interested motivation

01:11:01will be to improve life on Earth that

01:11:04that and that remains a big part of our

01:11:05mission you know improving life on Space

01:11:07doesn't do much for us at least not in

01:11:09the short term right but improving life

01:11:12on Earth from space is very very

01:11:14important and we see like-minded

01:11:16companies around us working and

01:11:17like-minded people working on the same

01:11:19set of challenges

01:11:21I think the first part of our mission

01:11:23safety

01:11:24My Hope Is that this this notion of

01:11:27giving away these technologies that we

01:11:29develop to help ensure a safe space

01:11:32environment a sustainable space

01:11:34environment will encourage usage and

01:11:37ultimately if enforcement does occur

01:11:39which I think it's bound to occur soon

01:11:41it has to occur soon

01:11:44you'll start to see Space Traffic

01:11:45Control be very akin to air traffic

01:11:48control

01:11:50and today the two things don't even

01:11:51connect but when you have this many

01:11:53things in space and they do re-enter

01:11:55quite quite a lot of them do ultimately

01:11:57re-enter our atmosphere they don't just

01:11:59totally vaporize little pieces come back

01:12:01sometimes big Pieces come back

01:12:03with the number of objects we're talking

01:12:05about you know Murphy's Law is hard at

01:12:08work and the I the odds are low

01:12:11but it is possible that space debris

01:12:13will enter and even intersect with air

01:12:16traffic or shipping traffic

01:12:19and we're not that far from that that

01:12:21possibility is already there the

01:12:22probability is low does it take one of

01:12:24those catastrophic events to

01:12:27make people want to coordinate is that

01:12:30is that what it'll come to do you think

01:12:32where we have

01:12:33literally a piece of space debris coming

01:12:35back through the atmosphere that hits an

01:12:37airplane like is that the kind of event

01:12:39that you think will wake people up to

01:12:41the issue I hope not you know I really

01:12:44hope that we do the right thing because

01:12:46it's the right thing to do our satellite

01:12:48constellation is called Pono and Pono is

01:12:51like the Hawaiian word for karma it

01:12:52means to do the right thing or to do the

01:12:54righteous thing you know in general

01:12:55Hawaii is actually a really interesting

01:12:57place to headquarter Privateer because

01:13:00there are Notions in Hawaiian society

01:13:02and words that are used that don't exist

01:13:05really in English Hawaiians have a a

01:13:07word for stewardship and responsibility

01:13:10that's called kuleana that is more than

01:13:13just a word it's a virtue it's something

01:13:15that people live their kuleana their

01:13:17responsibility ideas like Pono and

01:13:20kuleana and the nature of stewardship

01:13:23and conservatorship that has to

01:13:26translate to our space environment other

01:13:28than in our tax dollars we don't pay for

01:13:30air traffic control space situation

01:13:32awareness and traffic management

01:13:33management domain awareness and traffic

01:13:35control all these things should be free

01:13:37they should not be things that space

01:13:39operators have to pay for they should be

01:13:41things that enable people to do good

01:13:42things while they operate safely in

01:13:44space and we've already had bad things

01:13:46happen we've had things happen in space

01:13:48that were nearly catastrophic that have

01:13:50nearly cost a lot of lives you know

01:13:52we're we're co-sponsored by Omega

01:13:54watches so this is not a total Shameless

01:13:56plug but Apollo 13 You Got This Crew

01:14:00That's had a catastrophic failure nearly

01:14:03a mortal failure you know young people

01:14:04growing up today doing a stem education

01:14:06don't think about the tools they had on

01:14:08board they had to shut everything down

01:14:10to get home what did they use they used

01:14:13a wristwatch a slide rule and they timed

01:14:16their Burn by hand they had to shut off

01:14:18their systems and time it on a

01:14:20wristwatch

01:14:21that's

01:14:22what's that's how fragile space is

01:14:26and you look at that and uh you know

01:14:28some of these ASAP tests and attacks and

01:14:30things that we've done in space that

01:14:32we've also the United States has also

01:14:34done some pretty bad things there those

01:14:36things have put human lives in jeopardy

01:14:39in a way that

01:14:41our lack of empathy has really hurt us

01:14:44you know when that ASAP happened the

01:14:47sound bite within hours of blowing that

01:14:50thing into millions of pieces

01:14:52was situation green everything's normal

01:14:55I guarantee you it was not normal for

01:14:58the crew on the space station

01:14:59and it was knowing normal I mean it's a

01:15:03terrifying position to tell seven people

01:15:05whose lives are in in Peril we don't

01:15:08even know where you should move to be in

01:15:10less risk we just know you're in grave

01:15:12Danger

01:15:13that's that's terrifying like why was

01:15:16that not front page news for more than

01:15:18an hour why was why was the Tweet more

01:15:21important than that it really wasn't

01:15:23so we've got to fix this empathy apathy

01:15:25thing and then we can get on to

01:15:28accessibility is the focus of the

01:15:30business so and I'm a big believer that

01:15:32accessibility will lead the way because

01:15:34we we actually crave that access to move

01:15:37our society and our civilization forward

01:15:39something that's coming to mind for me

01:15:41right now is as you've talked about the

01:15:44importance of words and even the

01:15:46importance of hearing something coined

01:15:48like space sustainability which is

01:15:50something I hadn't heard before

01:15:51researching Privateer and doing this

01:15:53episode but it is important when you

01:15:55have words I mean you gave a couple

01:15:57examples from Hawaiian culture I

01:16:00actually created this website years ago

01:16:01that was a compilation of all the

01:16:03untranslatable words from different

01:16:05countries because they do have power

01:16:07because in those cultures there are such

01:16:10unique traits that surface in words

01:16:12because words are code right for people

01:16:14to to need that vocabulary in their

01:16:17culture and so I'm very excited to see

01:16:20how

01:16:21certain words surrounding this issue may

01:16:24help illuminate the problem there's

01:16:26there's a a term that people can

01:16:29understand they can conceptualize they

01:16:31can associate with and so I think

01:16:33that'll be fascinating to watch

01:16:35the final question I have for you is is

01:16:38Privateer

01:16:40and many of the businesses that you've

01:16:41done before are incredibly inspiring and

01:16:43we like to ask everyone who joins us on

01:16:45these episodes if there's someone that

01:16:47inspires you and what they're working on

01:16:50whether it's space related or not I mean

01:16:52there are so many inspirational people

01:16:54working in to do really hard things in

01:16:56space I just don't see

01:16:59and and don't get me wrong there's a

01:17:01part of my heart that has to remain a

01:17:03cold dark capitalist because we must

01:17:04make money we are not building a

01:17:06non-profit we have investors and those

01:17:08investors want to see a great return and

01:17:11I'm a big believer that you can align

01:17:13good things that you do in the world

01:17:15that can still make money you don't have

01:17:17to you know it doesn't have to be a

01:17:19non-profit to do good things I also am a

01:17:21huge believer that if it's a problem I

01:17:24can solve in my lifetime it's probably

01:17:25not all that interesting right uh

01:17:28because our lives are so fleeting and so

01:17:30momentary we should all be working on

01:17:33really really hard problems and they are

01:17:35moon shots if we don't make it the whole

01:17:37way we still all win

01:17:39uh and that's okay even um

01:17:43you know it's inspirational to get to

01:17:45work with was you know he's a brilliant

01:17:47lovely lovely uh human we've known each

01:17:51other for a long time but I will say

01:17:53working between him and getting to work

01:17:56with Steve Jobs back back in my time at

01:17:58Apple

01:17:59the thing that's interesting I was I was

01:18:01I was helping Waz clean out his garage

01:18:02this is a true story like this is not

01:18:04you don't think about was cleaning out

01:18:05his garage right but in his garage

01:18:09um I came across a blue three-ring

01:18:12binder and it was filled with HP graph

01:18:14paper from when he worked at Hillard

01:18:15Packard before they started apple and he

01:18:17was Moonlighting working on his designs

01:18:19for apple one and apple II

01:18:21and this was a solo Endeavor I mean this

01:18:23is different from the type of Endeavors

01:18:25that we have to do at the scale right

01:18:27but I'm going through it Page by page as

01:18:29an engineer and looking at every trace

01:18:33and every chip that he hand Drew on

01:18:36every page for apple one and apple II

01:18:38and then an assembler for Apple ROM and

01:18:42apple dos

01:18:43and then I get to the back of this book

01:18:47that is it's it's a it's an engineering

01:18:50PhD Manifesto that I don't think you

01:18:53could create today like this should be a

01:18:55part of engineering school curriculum

01:18:56for every kid that wants to go into stem

01:18:59at the back of the same book on the same

01:19:01HP graph paper before you started Apple

01:19:04were hand written song lyrics from the

01:19:07Beatles and Bob Dylan that he had heard

01:19:09on the radio while he was working on

01:19:11Apple one and apple II and I thought man

01:19:14how like how can you be the human that

01:19:16did this and be the human that cared

01:19:18enough

01:19:19to write this down uh and and to live by

01:19:22those things and I think it is important

01:19:24that we make a difference and we make an

01:19:26impact and

01:19:28you know there are a lot of things that

01:19:30on planet Earth that are technology

01:19:32projects that I really don't care about

01:19:34I mean I

01:19:36I I'm I'm not the type of person that's

01:19:38going to go start the next Tinder um or

01:19:40you know the next uh I'll I'll skip all

01:19:43the other great app examples but

01:19:45they're fleeting and uh I I'm a big

01:19:48believer that Elon oftentimes actually

01:19:52means what he says sometimes he doesn't

01:19:54I mean I think he's pretty damn funny

01:19:56but I think sometimes he says exactly

01:19:59what he means and people glance over it

01:20:00because it sounds so crazy

01:20:02but all of these enabling step zones on

01:20:05the way to Mars and on the way to an

01:20:07interplanetary species on the way to

01:20:09ultimately a space-faring uh

01:20:11civilization

01:20:12all absolutely critical and we can't

01:20:15start on it at the last minute there's

01:20:16going to be a million baby steps to get

01:20:19that one giant leap

01:20:21and we have to work on it now yeah

01:20:23something I took from from what you just

01:20:25shared there even even the example of

01:20:27seeing the drawings in waz's garage is

01:20:32that I think you've had the unique

01:20:34perspective or ability to see something

01:20:37from its very very early stages like

01:20:39those drawings to obviously the giant

01:20:41that Apple became today and getting to

01:20:43work with someone who had the capacity

01:20:45to understand something that can emerge

01:20:47from being a seed into something much

01:20:50much bigger and I think you're perhaps

01:20:52uniquely able to with your team

01:20:55understand

01:20:56how much this problem can and will scale

01:20:59and the need to start at the seed stage

01:21:02today in order to address it because

01:21:04it's going to be too late if we address

01:21:06it tomorrow when it was and it was weird

01:21:08it's too it was too early when we did

01:21:10Apollo now that we are in a commercial

01:21:12space environment where 80 of the things

01:21:15that went up last year were commercial

01:21:16versus government that's a flip most of

01:21:19my lifetime the things that went up most

01:21:21years were 80 government and you'd be

01:21:23lucky to find 20 commercial

01:21:25now the dollars haven't shifted yet

01:21:27right the government's still outspending

01:21:29the commercial sector because of all of

01:21:32those things the War Machine and

01:21:34intelligence gathering and defense

01:21:36but that's going to change very very

01:21:39soon it's bound to because the

01:21:41government's taking rides on Commercial

01:21:42Rockets now

01:21:44that's not exactly a total unexpected

01:21:48Trend we'd seen it happening for a while

01:21:49but the rate

01:21:51has changed so now you can actually you

01:21:54know exponential things are really hard

01:21:56to measure when they're tiny and tiny

01:21:57tiny but once the steps get bigger

01:21:59you can measure them and we're now in an

01:22:02environment where we can measure that we

01:22:03have to get ahead of it now and the

01:22:05timing is definitely

01:22:06urgent

01:22:08and the urgency there are there are a

01:22:11number of companies that are feeling

01:22:12that urgency in a number of people that

01:22:13are innovating in space that clearly see

01:22:16the urgency and you can sense it because

01:22:19you know the conversations with them and

01:22:21the work that they're doing is

01:22:22absolutely critical to this minute in

01:22:24time

01:22:25but these are all steps

01:22:27that were on a bigger path and that path

01:22:29is gonna you know it's gonna ex far

01:22:31surpass our lifetimes I think you're

01:22:33right every exponential curve looks flat

01:22:35One Direction and it looks vertical to

01:22:37the next and so I'm very interested to

01:22:39see where this goes I'm very

01:22:42interested to also see specifically some

01:22:45of the technologies that Privateer is

01:22:47working on where those go how those

01:22:48develop what else comes to be so I want

01:22:51to say thank you for joining us today

01:22:52Alex and also morba he had to drop early

01:22:54but this is really fascinating and I'm

01:22:57glad that we have people working on this

01:22:59because as we've talked about this

01:23:01problem is going to get just more and

01:23:03more pervasive with time and so it's

01:23:06it's worth us understanding it today so

01:23:08hopefully more people listening to this

01:23:10will have encountered this idea of space

01:23:12sustainability and again thank you for

01:23:15sharing that Alex oh Steph thank you for

01:23:17giving us a platform and Shining a light

01:23:19on this really incredible Topic at this

01:23:21really pivotal time it really means a

01:23:23lot so thank you very very much for

01:23:25having us

01:23:26let me add one other small thing about

01:23:28it yeah please oh my gosh like your

01:23:32house getting messy and all that we're

01:23:33in the move from California to Colorado

01:23:35right now we got a new house I am

01:23:38fighting like the devil not to bring the

01:23:41stuff from the other house put it in

01:23:42storage if anything keep a nice house

01:23:44clean you can see it as a house you know

01:23:47and not just a big collection of

01:23:48memorabilia or whatever but uh it's it's

01:23:51a fight but that's sort of like space

01:23:52let's start getting up to space with the

01:23:55intent ahead of time keeping it clean

01:23:57and also being prepared to for backups

01:24:00and being able to you know get out of

01:24:01the way and not make space messier than

01:24:03it is yeah it's hard enough to take care

01:24:05of your own house imagine sharing a

01:24:07house yeah I had one idea what if you

01:24:09could put up a satellite and it got hit

01:24:10by space debris and a bunch of particles

01:24:12spread off what if it was made out of

01:24:14some some instrument that when they sped

01:24:15off into space the coldness of space

01:24:17turned them into well maybe what if it

01:24:19could turn into like gummy bears

01:24:21something not as not as harmful as metal

01:24:24maybe even odd gas would be the best

01:24:26that's certainly an image imagining a a

01:24:29broken satellite turning into a bunch of

01:24:31gummy bears but you know all changed it

01:24:33only starts down at the atomic level

01:24:35physicists and chemists that understand

01:24:37the atoms and new product new materials

01:24:39that can be made that have new

01:24:40properties that always always changes

01:24:43life a lot yeah well I mean something

01:24:45that I still I still don't know if I

01:24:47fully understand is what happens when

01:24:49you do have a bunch of space debris

01:24:52because it sounds like what Privateer is

01:24:53doing is setting the information so

01:24:55people have it so they understand what's

01:24:57going on up there also hopefully

01:24:59creating more of a sharing economy of

01:25:01these satellites but of the debris

01:25:03that's already up there like you you

01:25:05can't really get rid of it right or

01:25:07there's a couple companies working on

01:25:08that but we're just we have to deal with

01:25:11this stuff in our house for quite some

01:25:12time now right well last week I wrote a

01:25:15forward for a book coming up by the guy

01:25:16Erie Levine who um founded ways created

01:25:20ways and you start out and if the seat

01:25:23stage you have some ideas and you work

01:25:25on them you have to modify modify it's

01:25:27continual iteration so is even what

01:25:29Privateer will be it's not like we're

01:25:32going to bring stuff back from space no

01:25:33we're going to help it get back and

01:25:35we're going to think of other ideas

01:25:36along the way that's just how nature of

01:25:38this definitely yeah we're looking

01:25:40forward to that okay have a good day oh

01:25:44thanks Steve bye

01:25:48thanks for listening to the a16z podcast

01:25:50if you like this episode don't forget to

01:25:52subscribe here on YouTube to get our

01:25:54exclusive video content we'll see you

01:25:56next time

01:25:58[Music]

🎥 Related Videos

a16z Podcast | Things Come Together -- Truths about Tech in Africa

a16z Podcast | Things Come Together -- Truths about Tech in Africa

a16z Podcast | The Infrastructure of Total Health

a16z Podcast | The Infrastructure of Total Health

The Robot Lawyer Resistance with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay

The Robot Lawyer Resistance with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay

a16z Podcast | Bots and Beyond

a16z Podcast | Bots and Beyond

Design Sprints as a Tool for Organizational Change

Design Sprints as a Tool for Organizational Change

a16z Podcast | Valuing Today's Fast-Growing Software Companies

a16z Podcast | Valuing Today's Fast-Growing Software Companies

🔥 Recently Summarized Examples

Former Priest REVEALS Jesus' MYSTICAL Lost Years & His Connection to BUDDHA! | Fr. Seán ÓLaoire

Former Priest REVEALS Jesus' MYSTICAL Lost Years & His Connection to BUDDHA! | Fr. Seán ÓLaoire

Kim Kardashian's Plastic Surgery Reversal: Is She Trying to Rewind Time?

Kim Kardashian's Plastic Surgery Reversal: Is She Trying to Rewind Time?

How To Succeed As A NEW & YOUNG Realtor [Deals Every Month + Luxury Listings]

How To Succeed As A NEW & YOUNG Realtor [Deals Every Month + Luxury Listings]

BITCOIN EMERGENCY: NEXT PRICE TARGETS REVEALED!! Bitcoin News Today & Ethereum Price Prediction!

BITCOIN EMERGENCY: NEXT PRICE TARGETS REVEALED!! Bitcoin News Today & Ethereum Price Prediction!

Uncovering Ancient Atlantean Ruins: Exploring Evolutionary Pathways and Psychic Phenomenon

Uncovering Ancient Atlantean Ruins: Exploring Evolutionary Pathways and Psychic Phenomenon

Samsung Technician Knives TV To Void Warranty

Samsung Technician Knives TV To Void Warranty

View original video