00:02this idea of the metaverse and many
00:05people are using this term I think
00:07there's a degree of disalignment in
00:09terms of what the hell that actually
00:11means I mean to give a couple examples
00:13are we in the metaverse as we're
00:15recording this conversation if there's
00:17an online auction is that in the
00:18metaverse if I'm staring at my phone for
00:21an hour intently watching Tick Tock am I
00:24in the metaverse and so as someone who
00:26coined the term and I know not everyone
00:28will agree with your definition or your
00:29perspective but I am curious to hear
00:31from you what do you think of as the
00:34metaverse per se in general to address
00:37the specific things that you mentioned
00:40um I think anything that's being used a
00:44um uh probably is not very metaverse
00:48like because in general when people talk
00:50about the metaverse they're talking
00:51about the next thing that's coming along
00:53and so if it exists today that suggests
00:57that maybe it's a pre largely a
00:58pre-metaverse thing but there are some
01:01exceptions that we can talk about in
01:03certain kinds of games and other
01:06uh that I think are kind of on-ramps you
01:09know one of my one of the most basic
01:11ones is do we talk about the metaverse
01:14for it metaverse says plural and um so
01:19my my colleague Tony Parisi has got
01:22seven rules of the metaverse and rule
01:25number one is that there's only the
01:28metaverse there's not a bunch of meta
01:30verses so that for me is a strong
01:33indicator if I see someone talking about
01:36our metaverse or a metaverse yeah I
01:40immediately begin to question whether
01:42they really got it whereas if somebody
01:45talks about Arts the thing what we're
01:47building in the metaverse
01:49that gives me more of a warm feeling
01:51about what they're doing and I think
01:54that's because a central idea of the
01:57metaverse at least in the book is that
01:59there is just one of them and that
02:01doesn't mean that it's all kind of the
02:03same thing everywhere far from it it's a
02:06incredibly diverse range of experiences
02:09but you can always get from one to the
02:13by moving around in a single unitary
02:16space right there's a degree of
02:17interoperability right between one and
02:20another I'm curious to hear your
02:22perspective on that though because I
02:24guess your point is that we haven't made
02:26it to the metaverse yet but many of the
02:30on-ramps you could say now whether it's
02:31gaming or social or degrees of immersion
02:34that we have online don't really have
02:37these connections right so so many of
02:39them are disparate from one another and
02:42so do you think that will change I know
02:44we're going to get into your company
02:45lamina one and I know there's other
02:47efforts by by parties in quote unquote
02:50the metaverse space I think there was a
02:51Consortium of 37 companies recently that
02:53came together to discuss this
02:55but to get back to the question do you
02:59see this changing because this has not
03:00been the precedent in the last you know
03:02couple decades I do see it changing
03:05there's not going to be one top-down big
03:08boss that says here's how it's all going
03:10to work it's going to be some ad hoc
03:12Arrangements of people trying to work
03:14together I think that the closest things
03:17that we currently can see to metaverse
03:19like experiences are games like fortnite
03:22Roblox Minecraft where you've got a
03:25bunch of people running around in a
03:27space they're all experiencing the same
03:30space at the same time I mean there
03:34um but but the idea is there that you're
03:37you're going to a place and you're
03:40sharing it with other people they've got
03:42huge user bases and and because of the
03:45the revenue that that those generate and
03:48just the sheer amount of experience that
03:50those companies can rack up by running
03:53those operations from day to day you
03:55know they're kind of the leading
03:57candidates for coming together to build
03:59metaverse type experiences and I know
04:01that they're all actively thinking about
04:04this and how to do it and I suspect that
04:06they're talking to one another about how
04:08do we build a bridge from our game or
04:11our experience to your game so that
04:14person could go from one to the other it
04:17may take some years to to really come
04:20together but but I think it will come
04:23together and um you know I'm excited to
04:27uh to see it happen and maybe be part of