00:08good morning everyone my name is Kat I'm
00:11a software engineer here at YC and I
00:13lead the startup school team today I
00:15have visiting group partner Divya with
00:17me and we're going to talk about
00:18everything relating to co-founders so
00:20what is a co-founder where do you find a
00:22co-founder how do you evaluate
00:24co-founder and once you have one how to
00:26work together thanks so much for having
00:27me Kat I'm really really excited to talk
00:29about this today actually finding the
00:31right co-founder is arguably the most
00:33important part of starting a company
00:35I've seen so many startups fail or
00:37succeed due to co-founder issues and so
00:39I'm really glad we're doing this today
00:40yeah and to start things off let's
00:42clarify something what do we mean by the
00:44word co-founder yeah so quite literally
00:47a co-founder is someone who starts your
00:51um so when you apply to YC we consider
00:53someone to be your co-founder if they
00:54have at least 10 Equity but in general a
00:57co-founder is someone who is there from
00:59the beginning or close to the beginning
01:00who is building your company with
01:02so if I'm hardworking and smart can I
01:04just start my startup alone so yes cat
01:06you were very hard working and smart and
01:09um the short answer is yes you
01:10absolutely can but it's it's really hard
01:13like really really hard you know a
01:15startup is a very difficult Journey for
01:17anyone and doing it alone makes it more
01:20than twice as hard and so you know we
01:22really recommend having a co-founder for
01:24the following reasons so number one is
01:26productivity so moving fast is critical
01:29in a startup and when you have two
01:31people three people you can literally
01:33move two or three times as fast you can
01:35just get so much more stuff done
01:37additionally your brainstorming can be
01:40higher quality right you can help each
01:41other see around corners and bounce
01:43ideas off each other exactly kind of
01:45maybe not get into a rut with a bad idea
01:47and have someone checking um
01:48accountability is you know a little bit
01:51more effective when there's someone else
01:52there you know you do your daily stand
01:54up and say this is what I'm going to get
01:55done today and then there's someone
01:56there the next morning to ask you
01:58whether or not you did it and then I
01:59think moral support is another huge and
02:01some times Overlook component so a
02:03startup has a lot of ups and downs
02:05there's moments of optimism there's
02:07moments of Despair and having someone
02:09that can both empathize with you but
02:10also balance you out in some of those
02:12scenarios can be just so helpful to keep
02:14moving if you're not convinced by those
02:16theoretical reasons it turns out that
02:18the empirical evidence also supports
02:20having a co-founder most successful
02:22companies have been started by more than
02:23one founder even companies that are
02:25famous for only one of its Founders
02:27actually had at least two Microsoft we
02:29all know Bill Gates but Paul Allen was
02:32Apple so Steve Jobs is the face of Apple
02:36um but Steve Wozniak was the one who
02:37designed and built the Apple computer
02:39and little known fact they actually had
02:41a third co-founder Ronald Wayne he left
02:44pretty early but there were three of
02:45them in the beginning yeah and Facebook
02:47or I guess meta now if you've seen The
02:49Social Network you'll know that Mark
02:50Zuckerberg had not one not two not three
02:54but four co-founders so the list
02:56obviously goes on and on but we also
02:58have some quantitative data to share so
03:00while YC does fund solo Founders yes we
03:03do we do fun solo founders of YC's top
03:06100 companies only four were founded by
03:09a solo founder are there really only
03:11yeah yep and in those cases there is a
03:14clear pattern among the solar Founders
03:16as well they are always able to make
03:18progress on their own so they built
03:20their own MEP they got their own users
03:22Etc yeah so I actually know some of
03:24these guys they're exceptional
03:26um and it's worth repeating then that
03:27while having a co-founder dramatically
03:29increases your chances of success YC
03:31actually does fund solo Founders we
03:33believe that ultimately you are the best
03:35judge of whether having a co-founder is
03:37the right call for you yeah absolutely
03:39but if you are convinced that you need a
03:41co-founder let's talk about where to
03:43find one Divya any ideas yeah so the
03:46obvious place to start is people that
03:48you know so friends classmates
03:50colleagues if you're in school this is
03:52an awesome time to find a co-founder
03:53right you're surrounded by classmates
03:55friends people who'd be fun to work with
03:57UH responsibilities yeah fewer
04:00responsibilities for sure
04:02um if you're working at a company look
04:04to your co-workers that are smart
04:05capable impressive people that you work
04:07well with and beyond that you know look
04:09to other people in your network friends
04:10friends of friends and if you see
04:13someone who you think might be a good
04:15match work on a project with them right
04:17like this can be a lower commitment way
04:19to test out your working relationship
04:21your skill sets than an actual startup
04:23and you can kind of get a sense for what
04:25it would be like to work with them as an
04:27added bonus the kind of person who wants
04:29to work with you on an evening or
04:31weekend project is like usually a really
04:32good co-founder material yeah that makes
04:34sense yeah these are all really great
04:36avenues for finding people you know in
04:38real life in parallel I would also
04:40highly recommend checking out YC's
04:42co-founder matching platform here's how
04:44it works when you sign up you tell us
04:46about yourself and what you're looking
04:47for so we ask yourself like are you
04:49technical do you have an idea you're
04:50working on or are you open to new ideas
04:52how many hours a week are you going to
04:53commit what industries are you
04:55interested in can you be responsible for
04:56you know engineering sales product Etc
04:58so once you've done that our team will
05:01manually read and approve your profile
05:02just to make sure you know you're not a
05:04robot you're not a Dev shop out here and
05:06once you're approved for the platform
05:08you can then look at profiles that pass
05:10your filters it if you see someone
05:12interesting you can send them a message
05:13and if they're also interested in you
05:15they'll match with you we recently also
05:17built a new feature that we called speed
05:18dating I love that it does come from the
05:22concept of speed dating you set aside an
05:24hour to be online you match with other
05:26Founders for five minutes of one-on-one
05:28video chat at a time and it's just a
05:29really great way to quickly meet tons of
05:32people interested in starting startups
05:34which is already a pretty big filter
05:35that sounds really helpful kind of
05:37especially as part of YC's greater
05:39ecosystem cat how many users do you have
05:41am I in office hours well I do know the
05:44answer to this question so we launched
05:46co-founder matching early last year we
05:49now have 40 000 profiles on the platform
05:51and we actually just crossed a hundred
05:53thousand matches last week 100 000
05:55matches is pretty impressive do you have
05:56any success stories you can share I do
05:58and I'm really excited about it so while
06:01it's a little bit early to say if these
06:03teams will last you know seven to ten
06:05years we have seen some really promising
06:07early signs over a dozen teams have met
06:10on the platform decided to be
06:12co-founders applied to YC together and
06:14actually got next that's awesome I have
06:16an example this is sequin so verinda was
06:19a PM at Visa where she launched credit
06:20cards like the Chase Sapphire Reserve
06:22she left her job and spent about a year
06:24working as a solo founder on a product
06:25to help women build credit she was
06:28looking for a technical co-founder who
06:29was mission-driven and had fintech
06:31experience Mark had 10 years of
06:33engineering experience at PayPal he
06:35spent six years as CTO of family
06:37oriented startups and he wrote on his
06:39profile that he cared deeply about
06:40gender Equity such a good match so they
06:42were a perfect match on paper and it
06:45turns out they were perfect match in
06:46real life they met on Zoom they just
06:48vibed instantly so they arranged to meet
06:51in person they met every day for the
06:53next week in person and so it's really
06:55easy for them to decide to work together
06:56these guys went through YC and raised
06:585.7 million dollars that sounds like a
07:00dream actually it sounds like kind of a
07:02like love at first sight co-founded
07:05um do all co-founder matches take so
07:07quickly or do you have examples of
07:08things that maybe took a little bit more
07:09time to to take yeah yeah so you know
07:12every story is a little different so
07:13this is kiwi biosciences they're another
07:15team from the summer 2021 batch these
07:18Founders were actually some of the
07:19earliest users of co-founder matching
07:21which is really cool like first couple
07:22hundred users Angie started a company to
07:24solve her own pains with irritable bowel
07:26syndrome David had experience in this
07:28industry he actually started a startup
07:29in the same problem space before so she
07:31renewed right away that he was the one
07:33but when they first met David was
07:35actually working on a trial project with
07:37a different potential co-founder he met
07:39through the platform plus he didn't like
07:40her idea he thought her idea would never
07:43work and so he ended up just being an
07:45advisor instead and they met once a week
07:47for a while but eventually even though
07:49he wasn't sold right away on the idea he
07:51was really impressed by Angie as a
07:52Founder he believed in her so they
07:55eventually took a very structured
07:56approach they filled out this 50
07:58question long co-founder questionnaire
08:00and spent a month working on a trial
08:02together and by the end of that month it
08:04was easy so they also went through YC
08:05and they raised like 1.5 million dollars
08:07as an aside that's interesting that he
08:09didn't love the idea but thought Angie
08:11was awesome this is something we see in
08:12general across the space so that's um
08:14and even at YC's yeah even at YC
08:17um so while we're on the top of
08:18co-founder matching success
08:20um can you share any tips on getting the
08:21most out of the platform for anyone out
08:23there that's going to use it I imagine
08:24that some of this advice actually
08:26applies more broadly to a co-founder
08:27search whether or not it's on the
08:28platform but like what have you seen
08:30yeah I would love to talk about this so
08:33I have two main tips number one is just
08:35really fill out your profile it sounds
08:38basic but the difference between 10 and
08:40100 effort is very apparent especially
08:43when you're comparing these profiles
08:44side by side so what I mean by that is
08:46you know put up a picture or a video
08:48photos are optional on the platform but
08:50it helps make you look like a real
08:51person you should brag a little so some
08:54people especially women or people from
08:56other cultural backgrounds value
08:58humility a lot but this is not the time
09:00to be humble potential co-founders don't
09:02know you they're only seeing a snapshot
09:04of you so you really want to sell
09:06yourself here yeah you want to stand out
09:07from the crowd right like this is the
09:09time to just like put your achievements
09:11front and center yeah and I think this
09:13is especially important if you are a
09:14non-technical Founder with an idea
09:16trying to recruit a technical co-founder
09:18this is a really common case on the
09:20platform but the thing is that technical
09:22Founders get lots and lots of invites
09:24and so you have to differentiate
09:26Yourself by bragging about your
09:27accomplishments and maybe show them the
09:29progress you've made on your own there's
09:31a huge difference between someone saying
09:33hey I have a great idea I'm just waiting
09:35for someone to help me build it versus
09:36like hey I'm working on an idea I have
09:38an MVP I have some users and I want a
09:41partner to come help me build it up yeah
09:42remember people are joining you as a
09:44person not your idea right exactly and
09:46so like show what you can do as a person
09:48yeah the second thing I would say is me
09:50as soon as you can in real life if
09:52possible but Zoom is also great
09:54according to stats from our platform 70
09:57of all Meats happen within two weeks of
10:00matching so what I'm gathering is you
10:02either meet really soon or not at all
10:04all right now that we have some avenues
10:06for finding potential co-founders let's
10:08talk about how you know if they're a
10:10good fit for you Divya you've started
10:12multiple startups what are some things
10:14you look for when evaluating a potential
10:16co-founder yeah yeah so this might sound
10:18extreme but a co-founder relationship is
10:20like a marriage and it's really
10:22important to get this right and in many
10:24cases you might spend more time with
10:27your co-founder than you do with your
10:28actual spouse especially if things are
10:30going well especially if things are
10:32going well exactly so I want to talk
10:34about a few things to align on early and
10:35we're going to talk about some of these
10:37again when we talk about working with
10:38your co-founder but early on here are
10:40some conversations to have so one is
10:42goals and values so what motivates you
10:44why do you want to do a startup
10:47um how stress so how do each of you
10:49handle stress and how will you help each
10:52other handle stress are you able to
10:54provide what the other person needs
10:55because there are going to be stressful
10:58um communication so can the two of you
11:01or three of you have an honest and Frank
11:04conversation with each other and still
11:05move forward productively
11:08um finances are a very important one to
11:10talk about early how long can each of
11:12you go without a salary or with Benefits
11:14what salary requirements do you have is
11:17there kind of a timeline in mind which
11:19you know you need to have more of a
11:21market rate salary or raise money make
11:23sure there's some alignment on this or
11:24at least a conversation
11:27um and lastly commitment how many hours
11:30a week can you work you know like what
11:32do evenings and weekends look like are
11:34you guys on the same page around this
11:35just there's no right or wrong answer
11:37but these conversations need to be had
11:40early on and then lastly um Kat touched
11:43on this earlier but meet in person if
11:45you can it's a lot easier to communicate
11:48and get a sense of compatibility
11:51and communicate some of the Nuance on
11:53the above topics if you're actually
11:54sitting face to face with someone I'd
11:56like to also add on a Counterpoint there
11:58are some things people tend to think are
12:00important but maybe aren't actually so
12:02important so specifically what I'm
12:04talking about is complementary skills
12:06I got an email the other day from a
12:08Founder telling me they needed to find
12:09someone to help fundraise and bring in a
12:12network of potential investors and
12:14experienced board members
12:16no no you don't you can learn that
12:19actually most skills are very learnable
12:21so that includes fundraising marketing
12:23even sales it's much more important that
12:25you're compatible with your co-founder
12:26in the other ways Divia mentioned above
12:28yeah so there's one exception to this
12:30rule actually and so absolutely right
12:32you don't need someone who can come in
12:33and like do your fundraising for you but
12:35if you're non-technical you should
12:38really think seriously about getting a
12:39technical co-founder and one of the most
12:41common questions we get from
12:42non-technical co-founders is I can't
12:45find a technical co-founder what should
12:47I do can't I just hire a Dev shop to
12:49help me build out my product the short
12:51answer is please don't do that like if
12:53you really can't find a technical
12:54co-founder you should learn how to code
12:57Dev shops pose a ton of challenges
12:59especially for really early stage
13:02companies you know not only are they
13:03costly from day one but it can be
13:06extremely challenging to iterate quickly
13:08as you're learning from your users you
13:11know Dev shops are designed to ship
13:12clear deliverables and as an early stage
13:15startup like you don't have a clear
13:17deliverable like you're kind of like
13:19feeling around in the dark and building
13:21for your users and the requirements are
13:23changing on the Fly they also don't care
13:24about your user they're just like I'm
13:26gonna do this thing you're gonna pay me
13:28exactly and um you know iteration can
13:31just become really clunky ineffective
13:33and again very expensive
13:35um so in short a technical co-founder is
13:38a an amazing investment early on if you
13:40can find one the last thing I want to
13:41bring up in this section about
13:42evaluating co-founders is trial projects
13:45the only way to tell if you work well
13:48together with someone is to try working
13:50together so Atco funer matching we
13:52recommend that before jumping into a
13:53full-blown co-founder relationship you
13:55work on a trial project together first
13:57essentially you agree beforehand on a
13:59timeline usually two to four weeks a
14:01tangible project goal and scope and also
14:03who owns the work at the end it's a very
14:05structured way to try working together
14:06with some mutual expectations I do want
14:09to say though remember at the end of the
14:10day just like with any other risks you
14:12take in life you will eventually need to
14:14take a leap of faith and that's
14:16especially true when you're starting a
14:17startup which is risky in all sorts of
14:19ways so find someone you're willing to
14:21take a leap of faith with yeah
14:22absolutely and you know we talk a little
14:25bit about like de-risking things and
14:26like a lot of these questions we talked
14:27about earlier are ways to de-risk that
14:29co-founder relationship but again like
14:31do risk it until the point you can and
14:33then and then you just gotta go so let's
14:35say you found someone you want to work
14:36with you know using co-founder matching
14:38or one of these other ways we talked
14:40about so now I want to move on to an
14:42important topic which is how to split
14:44Equity with your co-founders so the
14:46general YC advice is that by default you
14:48should just split Equity equally so
14:49there's lots of options here but you can
14:51kind of start from that Baseline and the
14:53reason for this is because you know you
14:55would like to be making equal
14:56contributions going forward and you
14:59should both be equally motivated to work
15:01hard for a very long time you should
15:03value your co-founder and if you don't
15:05like why are they your co-founder but
15:07the Divya I came up with the idea okay
15:12um ideas are cheap right and if things
15:13go well first of all the idea is very
15:15likely to change over time is you listen
15:17to your users but if things go well
15:19you're going to be working together on
15:21this for the next seven to ten years or
15:23more or more exactly so you know the
15:26point in time that you came up with the
15:27idea is just such a small part of my
15:29idea right that makes sense to me so
15:31here are some other really common bad
15:34reasons we hear for splitting co-founder
15:36Equity unequally so of course I came up
15:38with the idea I started working on this
15:40idea before my co-founder did my
15:42co-founder took a salary and I didn't
15:43I'm older and I'm more experienced than
15:45my co-founder we need someone to tie
15:47break when we have arguments so there is
15:50a good point here about needing a
15:51tiebreaker but we'll talk about that in
15:53a second it doesn't need to be done
15:54through Equity exactly I launched my MVP
15:56without my co-founder my co-founder
15:59agreed to their smaller share another
16:01one is you know I raise so many thousand
16:03dollars before my co-founder joined so
16:05even if you think you got a good deal
16:06now this could potentially result in
16:08resentment later down the line yeah you
16:09shouldn't be trying to get a good deal
16:11from your co-founder like it kind of
16:12starts the relationship off on a bad
16:13foot yeah so the bottom line here is all
16:16of the work is still ahead of you you
16:19both need to be happy and motivated for
16:21a long long time startup outcomes are
16:24pretty bimodal so don't jeopardize your
16:26co-founding relationship over a few
16:28percents alright so we've talked about
16:30how to get set up with a founding team
16:31it is time to get to work now we're
16:33going to share some stories and best
16:35practices on how to work with your
16:36co-founders when it comes to teamwork
16:38one thing we often hear is that
16:40communication is extremely important
16:41Divya do you have any advice for our
16:43Founders on how to keep clear and open
16:45lines of communication yeah this is a
16:47great question so communication is so
16:49important and it's as important as it is
16:51in any close relationship in your life
16:53so we talked about this earlier but you
16:55know a co-founder relationship is it's
16:57not a stretch to think of it as a
16:58marriage yeah and I imagine that setting
17:00up these communication channels starts
17:02very early in the relationship like
17:04almost before you start working together
17:06you need to align on certain
17:07expectations right I've seen co-founders
17:10enter into relationships with very
17:12different pictures of what it looks like
17:14to her together from anything from you
17:16know how many hours you worked or how
17:18much salary you're going to draw to how
17:20many meetings a week you plan to have
17:21you're so right cat talking about
17:23expectations is one of the first ways to
17:26really test out your communication with
17:27your co-founder and make sure that you
17:29can actually have hard or uncomfortable
17:31conversations while still being
17:33productive so at my first startup we
17:35initially had four Founders um all
17:37friends still friends still friends
17:38still still very good friends
17:41um and there were a couple of topics
17:43that we should have discussed early on
17:45that just became bigger problems later
17:47than they needed to be
17:49um so first we found out pretty early on
17:51about six months in that one of our
17:52co-founders he kind of had a timeline in
17:54his mind for how long he would wait for
17:56the product to go viral
17:58um it was a totally reasonable
18:00expectation but it's not something we'd
18:01really discuss so about six months into
18:03our startup Journey he was getting very
18:05frustrated with the lack of traction and
18:08um it kind of caught us all by surprise
18:10since we hadn't talked about it and you
18:12know it was something that just kind of
18:13built up over over time and he left the
18:16company pretty abruptly another topic
18:19that we should have discussed earlier
18:20was about finances and how long we could
18:23each afford to go with little to no
18:25salary so there was a little bit of a
18:26mismatch with the founders on this of
18:27course everyone's financial situation is
18:29different this put a little bit of
18:30unexpected pressure on the company at
18:32some at one point it kind of came out of
18:34nowhere it felt like it came out of
18:35nowhere we ended up feeling like we
18:37needed to raise we started considering
18:39some like low ball Aqua higher offers
18:42um and while we didn't end up taking any
18:43of these deals I think if we'd known
18:45sooner we probably could have made some
18:47decisions earlier on to avoid these
18:49distractions and so just these
18:51conversations would have been really
18:52helpful to have had up front gotcha yeah
18:54these scenarios seem pretty common
18:55absolutely and it'd be really helpful to
18:57discuss these things in advance do you
18:59have a list of topics you recommend that
19:01Founders discuss with their co-founders
19:02before committing yeah so this list is
19:05by no means exhaustive but here are some
19:07good ones to start the conversation
19:09so one is um how much do you want to
19:12work on your startup versus not we
19:13talked about this earlier but um you
19:15know evenings weekends vacations like
19:18kind of what are those expectations what
19:20do you guys both have in your minds it
19:21can be pretty different they can be very
19:23different sometimes people just assume
19:25and don't have the conversation just
19:26like don't assume you know put it out
19:29um what is being available and like what
19:31do response times look like like you
19:32know if I slack you and you write back
19:34to me six hours later like am I gonna be
19:36frustrated or am I gonna think you're
19:37really responsive like you know people
19:39have different senses of this how long
19:42can each of us go without salary or
19:44benefits again this is a very important
19:46one to talk about and what do each of
19:48you need to see at different Milestones
19:50to keep working on it and to stay
19:51motivated does anyone have a it needs to
19:53be working by X date
19:55um and if so like what does working look
19:57like yeah this is such great advice I
19:59can definitely see how misalignments on
20:01these expectations can start small but
20:04really Fester into resentment over time
20:06absolutely aside from aligning on
20:08expectations we hear that building trust
20:10is another key element of a co-founder
20:13I've personally seen this at the root of
20:15lots of relationship issues not just for
20:17co-founders but for friendships family
20:19relationships Etc we see co-founder
20:21breakups all the time at YC and a lot of
20:24them stem from a lack of trust that
20:25grows out of control Divya how has trust
20:27played a role in your co-founder
20:29relationship yeah so trust is a really
20:32big one one of the things I haven't
20:34mentioned until now is that for both my
20:36startups one of my co-founders is my
20:38husband still still my husband you're
20:42um and for my second company he was my
20:44only co-founder it was just the two of
20:45us and one of the reasons we were able
20:48to make decisions so quickly and draw
20:51such clear lines of ownership was that
20:53we already had so much trust built up
20:55from being married but also from having
20:57run a company together earlier
21:00um you know of course not everyone comes
21:01in with this much underlying trust but
21:03having that trust made the co-founder
21:06relationship very very functional I
21:08think previously existing relationships
21:10with your co-founders could go both ways
21:12right of course personal relationships
21:14don't always translate into functional
21:16co-founder relationships yeah that's 100
21:18True a previously existing personal
21:22um could totally go both ways
21:24um and let me give you an example of one
21:26that did not go so well so
21:28um last batch last YC batch we had a
21:32um we we thought the founder was great
21:34and we said why don't you come back with
21:35a co-founder and so um he went and he
21:38found a friend as someone who he'd been
21:39very good friends with for a long time
21:41they hadn't worked together he convinced
21:42him to join the companies they came back
21:44they started the batch
21:45um the CEO had been running the company
21:47for about six months and to him it
21:48really felt like his company oh no yeah
21:51yeah so he brought in this friend and
21:53from day one he just kind of
21:54micromanaged him and didn't give him
21:58enough space to succeed or fail at the
22:00projects He was responsible for and this
22:02is an important one right he would kind
22:04of jump in before the project had time
22:06to work because at a startup like things
22:09take time right and everyone needs a
22:11little bit of space and they need that
22:14um and so he would jump in and he would
22:15just kind of berate his co-founder when
22:17things were starting to go wrong and
22:20when you trust someone like you give
22:22them this room to fail right and the
22:24psychological safety to make mistakes in
22:27this case the co-founder relationship
22:28ended with the two so you know we got a
22:30slack message one morning and they were
22:31like the two of us we were in a bar
22:33midnight last night with a bunch of our
22:35friends the CEO was like berating his
22:38co-founder and then you know the
22:40co-founder resigned abruptly the next
22:42morning so it's just not a good
22:43situation that sounds really rough yeah
22:45I would not want to be in a situation
22:46like that we do have a couple tips to
22:49help with building trust so number one
22:51is is trust people by default trust them
22:54until they lose your trust not vice
22:56versa a lot of good Founders tell us
22:58they do this because when you operate
22:59the other way around like in the example
23:01Olivia just gave people end up feeling
23:03micromanaged they feel not trusted and
23:05all this negativity will continue to
23:07build up if you say you're gonna do
23:09something do it if you're not gonna get
23:11it done that's fine like startups run
23:13super fast you will often have more
23:15things than you can finish on your plate
23:17but if you're not going to do it you
23:18should communicate early often and
23:20honestly create space for mistakes you
23:23are going to make mistakes all the time
23:25both you and your co-founder so don't
23:28say things like I told you so it's
23:30important to learn from mistakes
23:31together rather than assigning blame
23:33when something goes wrong and lastly the
23:35more time you can spend physically
23:37together the better this lowers the
23:39friction to asking questions talking
23:40about the little things and that can
23:42expedite making progress on both your
23:44startup and your relationship
23:45communicating in person can also help
23:48you learn or get a better understanding
23:50for the way your co-founders
23:52and that can help you build trust as
23:53well thanks Kat those are great and um
23:56you know they can kind of build a really
23:58good foundation for building a trusting
24:02um so in addition to that underlying
24:03trust that you're going to be
24:04continually working at
24:06um there might need to be some
24:07structural roles and responsibilities
24:09that are defined to keep decision making
24:11really fast so on my first company we
24:13made the mistake of trying to keep
24:17um and there are many of you there are
24:20um so you know we talked earlier about
24:21how splitting Equity equally is a good
24:24idea and like totally agree with that
24:25the equity was not the problem the first
24:28kind of yellow flag that came up was
24:29that we decided to not have any titles
24:31like we all called ourselves co-founder
24:34um and so in and of itself that wasn't
24:36really a problem but there's kind of two
24:38issues with this one is as it correlated
24:41that we tried to make all of our
24:42decisions by consensus consensus meaning
24:44you all had to agree on the decision to
24:47move forward yeah for like any decision
24:49um so I don't think I need to go into it
24:51with this group on my why that's a bad
24:52idea but at the time it felt really
24:53equal and it felt Equitable but also the
24:56the fact that we had no type no titles
24:58was a little bit of a yellow flag
24:59because it was an early indicator that
25:01the team couldn't have hard
25:03conversations and we couldn't make
25:05decisions when there was disagreement
25:07right and so it was like the consensus
25:09and the lack of titles were like both
25:11kind of symptoms of the same thing you
25:13know having to make decisions by
25:14consensus was ultimately disastrous like
25:16we would just spin we would get stuck in
25:19um so let's talk about some ways to
25:20protect against this so you all don't
25:22repeat my mistake yeah so as Divya
25:24mentioned having clear titles or at
25:26least naming one person the CEO can
25:28certainly help none of this co-ceo stuff
25:31it helps break ties and disagreement and
25:33it's also just really good practice for
25:34having hard conversations where two
25:36people may not agree not being able to
25:38pick a CEO could be a sign that you're
25:41not able to make hard decisions together
25:42in addition to titles it's important to
25:45establish a few other things that can
25:46help with decision making so clear areas
25:48of ownership within the company who is
25:50the final decision maker for different
25:52types of decisions this could be a
25:54different person in different functions
25:55but it's important to know who it is
25:57what happens if the other person degrees
25:59disagrees slightly versus strongly maybe
26:02the way you deal with it is different in
26:04those cases and finally it can be
26:06helpful to set up a structure for
26:07accountability so once you've made your
26:09decision at some point you should check
26:10back in to see how that decision played
26:13out and whether anything needs to change
26:14in the process moving forward clear
26:16areas of ownership are very very
26:18important in a startup and a business
26:20and in addition in order to make that
26:22work it's also very important to
26:24understand each other's personality and
26:26communication Styles and so you know
26:28here are some tips on that so one is
26:30keep keep an eye on your on each other's
26:32mental health right like likely neither
26:34of you is a mental health professional
26:35or anything like that but you can kind
26:37of see some early indicators is your
26:38co-founder burning out are they taking
26:40care of themselves are they starting to
26:41kind of become more reactive or more
26:44emotional like these are some things to
26:45look out for and catch early related
26:47know how each of you reacts when you're
26:51under stress or or when you're having a
26:52tough conversation cat let me ask you a
26:55question when you're in a stressful
26:56tough conversation do you tend to attack
26:58or retreat I get very aggressive when I
27:02feel upset so I would say attack yeah
27:06um I am I'm in the same boat and um this
27:09is something that I assumed was the case
27:11for everyone but it's not right like
27:12people have very different personality
27:13types I've been in a few
27:15um close professional relationships or
27:17co-founder relationships if I'm very
27:18frustrated I like you I get very spun up
27:20like I get very communicative
27:22communicative I crave engagement you
27:25want to solve the problem right now
27:26exactly like I want to get in like right
27:28now right now right it might not always
27:29be a good idea right like we might be
27:30emotional but I'm still like I wanna I
27:32wanna get through this and I've worked
27:34with people that in those situations
27:36like they just kind of want to withdraw
27:38a little bit like they want to cool down
27:40maybe they don't want to engage with me
27:41because I'm being crazy
27:43um right but like people sometimes just
27:45want like a little bit of time to calm
27:46down and I think sometimes when there's
27:48a mismatch in these Styles it can create
27:50a little bit of a vicious cycle it can
27:53self-perpetuate the more you want to
27:55talk to them the more they are not
27:56trying to talk to you right now right
27:58and I might perceive that they don't
27:59care about the problem
28:00um so it's just important to know how
28:02people react in stress a few other
28:04things so does your co-founder tend to
28:06speak up when they see a small problem
28:07or do they bottle it up until there's a
28:09huge frustration it's important to know
28:10how big of a deal things are when
28:12someone brings things up what
28:14environments are most comfortable for
28:15your co-founder to voice concerns is it
28:17you know like a walk and talk is it
28:20maybe over a meal is it in a scheduled
28:22structured one-on-one where there's time
28:24set aside for concerns here's one that
28:26might be a little bit counter-intuitive
28:28but are you both comfortable praising
28:30each other and celebrating each other's
28:31wins this can actually be very
28:32uncomfortable for people sometimes can
28:34you you know give each other positive
28:36feedback and can you graciously accept
28:37positive feedback like this can really
28:39build a strong co-founder relationship
28:41and lastly will you feel attacked if
28:43your co-founder makes a suggestion about
28:45your work because as we talked about
28:46everyone's going to make a lot of
28:48mistakes right and everyone needs to be
28:49able to talk about these in a way that
28:52isn't emotionally loaded so figure out
28:54what that looks like for you um and can
28:56you do it without taking it personally I
28:58definitely have an aggressive personal
29:00type when I'm stressed so this is all
29:02really really helpful stuff to think
29:03about let's wrap up by talking about a
29:05few habits and structures you can put in
29:07place to try to build and Foster a
29:09productive co-founder relationship
29:10number one have regularly scheduled
29:12one-on-ones even if you talk to each
29:14other all the time it can also be
29:16helpful to keep a list of ongoing topics
29:17that you add to as you think of things
29:19and if there's something non-urgent just
29:21you know add it to the list instead of
29:22interrupting your co-founder every time
29:24there's something small in those 101s
29:26definitely Reserve time for
29:27bi-directional feedback both positive
29:30and constructive make this something
29:31that's part of the flow make it routine
29:33not something that feels like a big deal
29:35that you dread all the time actually I
29:37have a great example the founders from
29:38kiwi biosciences which I talked about
29:40earlier do something that I think is
29:41pretty cool when one person gives
29:43constructive feedback the other person
29:45doesn't interrupt or argue it's a really
29:47neat way to let someone vent without
29:49feeling like they have to defend why
29:51they feel upset and I think it also
29:53helps with feeling like it's okay to
29:55talk about even the smallest things and
29:57that leads me to the next point which is
29:58don't delay hard conversations and don't
30:00wait until things are a big problem
30:02before you mention them the thing with
30:04problems is that they're easier to solve
30:06when they're small engage a coach or
30:08counselor for tricky interpersonal
30:10situations don't feel bad about this
30:12this is really helpful I highly
30:14recommend it these coaches is literally
30:16their job to help people through these
30:18problems they've seen it all and they
30:19can help you and again it doesn't mean
30:21you have a big problem because you're
30:23engaging a coach right like you can you
30:25can tackle the problem while it's small
30:26and we've talked about this next one a
30:28couple times already but we do think
30:29it's really important avoid personal
30:31statements and normalize failure we've
30:34said this multiple times failure is
30:35going to happen all the time and you
30:37need to create space for that so don't
30:39say things like I told you so don't say
30:42Hey you always do this you always XYZ
30:44these are personal attacks and you don't
30:46really want that in your co-founder
30:48relationship argue and get comfortable
30:50arguing but you should know who
30:52ultimately is the decision maker
30:54disagree and commit at some point your
30:57team will have to make a decision unless
30:59you're you know trying to to do the
31:00consensus thing don't do that but once
31:03you've made a decision commit and move
31:05on just remember that at the end of the
31:08day no matter what happens or what
31:10details you disagree on you have the
31:12same ultimate goal right you both want
31:14the startup to succeed you're on the
31:16same team yeah and you're doing
31:18something very very hard and against the
31:19odds so you want to be marching in the
31:22same direction right so that wraps up
31:24our talk hopefully you've gained either
31:26you know the desire to get a co-founder
31:28more clarity on who your co-founder
31:30should be or maybe more insight on how
31:32to work together with your co-founder
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