00:00the next speaker Daniel gross is a
00:01former YC founder and YC partner and he
00:07is going to tell you some really
00:10important things about staying sane and
00:14healthy and whole while you're doing
00:17this incredibly hard thing that is being
00:21a start-up founder so Daniel thank you
00:27all right hello sorry uh we're running a
00:33little behind today it is my fault
00:34if any of you are working on carrying
00:36traffic I suggest you get to it a little
00:39bit faster so this was the original
00:42title of the talk in hindsight it's kind
00:45of a terrible title so we're gonna
00:47remove it this is actually what I want
00:48to talk about today I think everyone
00:51here fundamentally is playing a game and
00:53you want to win that game
00:55whatever whatever project you're working
00:57on I'm sure people here are excited to
00:59build kind of the next the next Empire
01:01become the next Rockefellers and one
01:05kind of view here that that I've noticed
01:07over years of working with different
01:08startup founders being a start-up
01:10founder myself is when you're a founder
01:13the mentality you get into is kind of
01:15like you're an athlete and startups are
01:19kind of the Olympics it's one of the
01:21hardest things you can do and what I'd
01:23like to do in this talk today is is go
01:26over some of the kind of mistakes some
01:28novice athletes make while they're
01:30trying to play in the Olympics because I
01:31do think they're kind of repeated and
01:34over the course of the past few weeks
01:35and I think you guys have seen great
01:37talks on mistakes people make say when
01:39marketing or hiring or growing your
01:41company but there's a lot of mistakes
01:43you make with yourself and I'd like to
01:45help you potentially avoid them a lot of
01:48the mistakes stem from this recurring
01:49theme which is you're working really
01:51hard and not smart kind of like this guy
01:56you you don't want to be in this
01:57position you know examples of things
02:01that will be in your head as you start a
02:02company especially as you start growing
02:04out a team are you know I'm gonna be in
02:07the office all the time or I will make
02:10sure to be the last one out today
02:12work as hard as I can and while there's
02:16a lot of value in it that stuff could
02:18kind of go wrong because ultimately
02:19input doesn't equal output this this
02:23founders seem to make this mistake kind
02:25of over and over again and what they
02:26forget is nobody wants to work for a
02:29tired idiot it's actually incredibly
02:32uninspiring and so you know ultimately
02:36if we were to do a little quick Harvard
02:392x2 matrix here you know if you just
02:43this is the most common startup founder
02:45mistake where you just focus on like I'm
02:47gonna pedal the bike as hard as possible
02:49and you don't really get anywhere that's
02:50kind of bad - I would not want the
02:52outcome of this talk to be the other
02:53extreme which is maybe like you could
02:56define academia you get really smart but
02:59you're not you're not pedaling as hard
03:00what you really want us to be doing both
03:02and so we're gonna be talking a little
03:03bit today on on how to do that before we
03:06dig into any details I thought it should
03:09be interesting to maybe
03:11quickly go over why this even happens as
03:13a problem so out of curiosity if could
03:16if you've ever worked for someone before
03:19that you respected a manager you
03:21respected please raise your hand okay
03:25so about half of the room ultimately
03:29when you're a founder you kind of want
03:30to win the approval of your pack be at
03:31your team or other founders and the
03:36problem is a lot of first-time founders
03:37don't really have that experience of
03:39what that that thing you want to look up
03:42to is so they don't have a mental model
03:45for what to emulate and as a result
03:48there's just like a lot of common
03:50mistakes people make because they don't
03:51know kind of what greatness looks like
03:53and so they optimize for the wrong thing
03:55all right so that should set hopefully
03:57the the general framing for the talk
04:00what does this actually mean in practice
04:02so we're gonna go over a couple of
04:04different areas common mistakes with
04:06sleep food exercise your mind and
04:09leadership this kind of a Maslow's
04:10hierarchy of sorts to start up success
04:12where I think you can only tackle the
04:14stuff at the bottom after you tackle the
04:16basics what's really ironic about the
04:19advice I'm about to deliver you is I'm
04:22sure for about half the people in this
04:24room and I'm sure many more people on
04:27you will make all these mistakes despite
04:30me saying what I'm about to say it's
04:31kind of fascinating but I'll go through
04:33the exercise anyway just so I could tell
04:37or it's asleep guys the reviews are in
04:40sleep is the ultimate nootropic it just
04:43takes a couple of hours to apply there
04:46is no way that cutting that hour of
04:49sleep was actually worth it for your
04:50company in in unless there's a real
04:53some people need five hours of sleep
04:55some people don't need eight hours of
04:57sleep some people need nine just sleep
04:59as much as you need when I started my
05:01first company I was very focused on as I
05:04mentioned earlier just being in the
05:05office all the time working as hard as
05:07possible and again it's really stupid
05:09and in fact bad for your shareholders
05:11and for your entire company if you're
05:13coming in there with 20% cognition
05:15because you're not sleeping well I would
05:18spend a bunch of weekend time you don't
05:20suspend your company time on this
05:21optimizing your sleep environment I
05:23think sleep masks are the most
05:25underrated product in the world in terms
05:26of the upside that they give you in the
05:28car this is like twenty dollars and
05:30you'll sleep I sleep significantly
05:31better there's a website for this that
05:33details it I would just go through all
05:34their products I would be incredibly
05:36frugal in general in life and I would
05:39spend lavishly on this one again just
05:41think about it as a nootropic I know
05:43there's a lot of people that are
05:44obsessed with kind of I don't know
05:45taking l-theanine or caffeine this is a
05:48far better nootropic than all that stuff
05:50so just spend on it I would try to avoid
05:53using an alarm clock at least for half
05:55the week again your ancestors didn't
05:59have an alarm clock they survived you
06:01should be able to as well sometimes you
06:04know one thing your ancestors obviously
06:06we're not exposed to is a lot of light
06:07in the night and so occasionally for
06:09setting your security and rhythm I think
06:11for a lot of folks especially software
06:12engineers can be helpful I think if
06:15you're a software engineer you probably
06:16have I found at least most software
06:18engineers that I've worked with have
06:20about a 25 hour cycle that is to say
06:21they increasingly wake up later and
06:23later and later if you take a little bit
06:25of melatonin can actually reset that
06:27quite well for various fascinating
06:29regulation reasons most melatonin sold
06:32in the United States is way much more
06:33than you need it's like three five or
06:35ten milligrams your body makes point
06:37three when I wants to put you to bed so
06:39that's what you should take
06:40you literally have to buy this on Amazon
06:42the reasons for which are fascinating
06:44but outside of the context of this talk
06:46okay so we just discussed sleep a little
06:48bit that should be real basic I don't
06:49think you should tackle anything else
06:50before you're sleeping well it's again
06:54fascinating I'm sure most of you some of
06:56you will follow this advice a lot of
06:57people continue doing what you're doing
06:58but again I told you so
06:59alright let's talk about food okay so
07:03again just think of just think of what
07:06you're doing and what you want your team
07:08to be garbage food impairs your judgment
07:10I would I at some point realized I was
07:15letting everyone else down on my team if
07:17I was not playing at peak performance if
07:20I was not treating myself like an
07:21athlete so I would not eat crap food I
07:24really don't want to go down the rabbit
07:27hole of like what diets to do I'm not a
07:29dietician and I'm not here to be or Tony
07:31Robbins but I would just focus on
07:33whatever you think is healthy actually
07:35think there's probably a lot of
07:36psychological benefit to just eating
07:38whatever you think is healthy frankly if
07:40you believe sugar is really health if
07:41you really believe that maybe that's
07:42fine whatever fad you're into just go
07:45for it this is something worth investing
07:48in I was a contentious topic but I I
07:54think it is immoral to have junk food
07:57weaponized junk food in your office I
07:59would just get rid of all of it and
08:01focus on healthy food that's you can
08:05find healthy foods is just just as cheap
08:07I also think everyone is dehydrated all
08:10the time I would try to drink an
08:12uncomfortable amount of water this is
08:15probably the only weird hack I'm gonna
08:17give you in this talk most of it's gonna
08:20be frameworks but practically speaking
08:24this man is set up for success
08:28I just I think you'll feel much better
08:30if you do alright so that's a little bit
08:33about food again it's I think it's
08:36pretty simple the message here
08:38the repeated message here is invest in
08:39yourself because startups are one of the
08:43most draining things you can do to your
08:46body to your mind let's talk about
08:48exercise okay this is probably a good
08:50idea it's again just like sleep the
08:54results are pretty conclusive on this
08:55one one thing I always well taking a
08:59step back if you don't exercise I would
09:02at least try to spend a lot of time
09:03outdoors if you have a team you can
09:04start having one-on-ones outdoors if
09:06you're managing that team if you're
09:10somewhere terribly cold where you can't
09:11spend time outdoors that sucks but well
09:14maybe you should move to somewhere that
09:16has more Sun I would always picture in
09:20my mind because I'm an overly
09:22competitive person that whoever my
09:24competitor was they were probably
09:25working out like four times a week
09:27becoming better becoming having better
09:29ideas becoming more creative if that
09:31framing is helpful for you I would use
09:33it I think you know I I don't mean to be
09:40overly prescriptive on what you do I
09:41think anything you do you know in the
09:44spirit of exercise is good I don't have
09:46to cite I can't I don't have time to
09:47cite all the studies that correlate with
09:51I do think running is probably the best
09:53in terms of time expenditure to
09:55potential reward if you can do it and I
10:00think the more interesting question with
10:02exercise is not whether you should do it
10:04because I think it's pretty clear to
10:05everyone on the planet you should do it
10:06but how to convince yourself to do it
10:08because that's that that's the harder
10:10psychological bit the largest mistake I
10:14think people make especially if you're a
10:16founder of a company is you know you
10:18have like I'm gonna go all-in mentality
10:20you tend to go all-in two things if you
10:22go all into something like running your
10:23first time you're gonna hate it because
10:25you're gonna sprint sprinting sucks so I
10:28would I would not overdo it and I would
10:30start really small and and build
10:34positive memories that you can grow on
10:35so celebrate success what you want to do
10:38is pretty much for everything but in
10:41this particular thing the trick is to
10:42create a positive memory such that when
10:45your brain predicts whether you do that
10:46activity the next time it looks back and
10:49thinks yeah that was it that was kind of
10:51fun so that may mean running a mile and
10:53then getting a Frappuccino just because
10:56what you'll remember is getting the
10:57Frappuccino but try to really trick
10:59yourself into doing this it'll
11:00definitely pay off I think the the other
11:04thing you can do in order to kind of
11:05reduce the willpower required to do
11:06anything is make it surround yourself by
11:10other people that are doing it you can
11:11tell other people that you're running
11:12which is great because then you'll kind
11:15of feel like you have to do it cuz you
11:16told everyone about it you could
11:17surround yourself with other people that
11:19are running for me especially through
11:22the dark phases of my startup this this
11:24was definitely my light it helps you
11:27relax it helps you focus and you guys
11:30are going to go through a lot of ups and
11:31downs I suggest setting up these good
11:32habits while you're either at a plateau
11:34or at an OP because it's really hard to
11:36convince yourself to do anything while
11:37you're down but if you set up the mental
11:39habit it's a little bit easier to come
11:41back to alright so if you got down the
11:45basics you're sleeping well you're
11:49eating well you're exercising then we
11:52can start to talk about kind of the more
11:54interesting things you could you could
11:56do and you should be doing to transform
11:58yourself as a leader and to really take
12:00your company to the next level
12:04there are a bunch of kind of sub
12:05categories within to how to think about
12:07optimizing your mind the largest mistake
12:11people make I think went in terms of
12:13just thinking better is if they focus a
12:16lot on feeding their body and then they
12:18don't focus on feeding their brain but
12:20ultimately your brain I think is just
12:22constantly doing pattern recognition and
12:24this and the pattern recognition that
12:26it's doing is very much powered by the
12:27information it's consumed and so you you
12:31really want to focus on feeding your
12:33mind like you're feeding your body what
12:35does that mean in practice I would spend
12:37at least one day a week not working as
12:39hard as you can and your goal here is by
12:43by as hard as you can you want I mean
12:45you want to you want to do whatever
12:49activity will help you feel the
12:52refreshed when you come back to work and
12:53there's all sorts of interesting studies
12:55of spending time in nature is really
12:56good for this may be going to the beach
12:58whatever I don't intend to be
13:01prescriptive but you really need to
13:03spend a day a week not working this is
13:05really helpful because when you come
13:07back to work you will have like your
13:09your brain will just be different and
13:11it'll be solving problems in a more
13:12novel way and let me frame it this way
13:15your competitors are probably doing this
13:16and they're coming up with better
13:17answers than you are so you should
13:19definitely take a Sabbath I mean it
13:26blows my mind that people don't do this
13:27the the it's it's like I guess a
13:30separation of the the urgent and the
13:32important that people struggle to do I
13:35would focus a lot on reading long-form I
13:39think a mistake people make here is
13:41everyone talks about reading a lot and
13:44people get very obsessed with like you
13:46know reading is a thing to do the
13:49greatest gift someone gave me was this
13:51idea of not really caring about what you
13:53read whether you even finish the book
13:55just trying to read any book anytime all
13:57the time like every day because I and I
14:00think there's a common amongst founders
14:02you get obsessed in this mindset of I
14:04got to do it I gotta finish the book you
14:07get stuck in a crappy book you stop
14:08reading all together now you're on
14:10Instagram sucks so just pick anything
14:14continually try to read it I find that
14:17the value that books give you are not
14:21they're not just informational they
14:24actually set up your mind in a
14:25particular way like if you read a
14:26biography about a person you'll find
14:28yourself thinking a little bit more like
14:30that person thought or like you read
14:31that person thought and that afterglow I
14:34think is really what you're trying to
14:35get and I don't think you can get that
14:36from short form content I would sign out
14:39of all unless unless your businesses
14:41tied to it in which case good luck I
14:44would sign out of all this crap on your
14:46phone and just make it a little bit
14:47harder to use yeah it's just too good is
14:52the main problem this is way too good
14:55all right so that's in terms of how you
14:59should feed your brain in terms of how
15:01you should think like the software
15:03that's running in your head probably the
15:05do is you want to move from this mode
15:07where you're playing first-person to
15:09this mode we are playing third-person
15:11and what do I mean by that I mean by
15:13that it's a little bit less I'm angry
15:16and a little bit more I'm feeling anger
15:19the other term people use for this is
15:22mindfulness I'm trying to avoid that and
15:24repackage it in terms that seem a little
15:25bit more exciting but it's building the
15:28habit of kind of stepping out of the
15:29frame and experiencing yourself almost
15:32in the third-person this is really
15:33useful because well it's actually not
15:37that useful things go really well in
15:38which case all of your emotions are
15:40awesome but when things start going
15:42south it's going to become really
15:44important it's going to become also
15:46really important when you start doing
15:49bad things that are mostly a byproduct
15:51of your own insecurities you know so
15:53someone say who reports to you says
15:55something disagreeable to you in a
15:57meeting and it's quite helpful to be
15:59able to step back and say what's
16:01happening now is like I feel insecure as
16:03opposed to I'm dumb which is what
16:06actually happens if if if you're playing
16:08in kind of first-person and you'll be
16:10able to react better you'll be able to
16:12lead people better in terms of how to do
16:15it meditation is one way to achieve this
16:17there's a lot of studies that show that
16:19it just happens as a byproduct of being
16:21in your mind for more years so it's just
16:24growing up but I actually think the most
16:29valuable way to to get better at this is
16:32to just think about it just have the
16:34concept in your head but it is probably
16:37the largest most important mental shift
16:40I think you can do as a founder because
16:41you're putting yourself through an
16:42emotional roller coaster so that's kind
16:47of a large software shift that I think
16:49is is really really important in terms
16:51of other cheap hacks that relate to your
16:55mind I think the simplest goal that you
16:58should constantly be thinking about is
16:59how to spend as much of your day and
17:01flow as possible flows this concept of
17:04basically becoming unaware of how time
17:07passes there's a book written by a
17:10gentleman whose last name I can't
17:11pronounce so I'm not even going to
17:12mikail something about this topic that I
17:17you want to spend as much of your time
17:19and flow as possible and if you're
17:22really good as a manager you really want
17:23to spend your entire team's
17:25day and flow as much as possible people
17:27should be moving from one thing to the
17:29next to the next to the next not even
17:30really noticing time fly by and that is
17:34you know it's I don't have any like
17:36instant solutions to that but you may be
17:39me kind of noticing a theme across the
17:41talk here which is the key is to kind of
17:42launch and iterate I would I would be
17:46constantly asking yourself like what
17:48time of day is the best for you to do
17:50meetings what time of day is best for
17:51the team to do meetings what music makes
17:54you productive you know is the person
17:56you're going to put on a particular
17:59project are they going to enjoy that
18:01does that match their personality maybe
18:04yes maybe no so you need to constantly
18:06be in this framework of trying different
18:08things and iterating don't be on
18:10autopilot there's a lot of information
18:13data laying on the ground that comes out
18:16of an omission from whatever you did by
18:18putting a meeting super early in the
18:20morning super late in the day bunching
18:21meetings together keeping them separate
18:22I don't mean to be prescriptive because
18:25I actually don't know that that there is
18:28a global answer but there's definitely
18:29an individualized one to you and the the
18:33really great people are constantly
18:35iterating on whatever that is trying to
18:38improve themselves so you should do that
18:41because the competition's doing that the
18:45last thing I want to talk about is
18:48probably the most important one for you
18:51as you build out a team which is how to
18:53become a really good really inspiring
18:55leader there's a lot of different books
18:59on leadership there's a lot of different
19:01studies on it most of them are garbage
19:03there's one particularly good one that
19:04I'd like to walk you guys through which
19:07is Robert Keegan's theory of adult
19:08development Robert Kagan is a
19:11psychologist that has done a lot of work
19:15on adult development distinct from child
19:17development which looks like Piaget have
19:19covered quite well it's actually not
19:21there's there's not that much literature
19:23on how adults say circa 18 and beyond
19:26evolve in terms of their thinking of
19:27thought patterns and what
19:31done is he's kind of split out five
19:35different phases that people tend to go
19:36through throughout life and not all
19:39people make it to the final two phases
19:42the we're really going to focus here on
19:44stage two through five since one is
19:47basically really children I'm gonna walk
19:50you through them and then we'll talk a
19:52little bit about how you can kind of
19:54advance from one phase to the next so
19:57let's talk a little bit about an
19:59imperial mind this you could kind of
20:02think of this as like a very simple ai
20:05this is someone who is for the most part
20:08these are children but I think we all
20:09know some adults that fit this bill this
20:11is someone who is incredibly selfish so
20:14they're very focused on their own goals
20:16that's their that's the number one most
20:18important thing for them they're
20:20transactional so the relationship with
20:22other people is really just a way for
20:24them to get a thing done that they want
20:27they're unable to the the view of the
20:29other side is untenable to them so you
20:33know Oh what do you think of you know
20:35person brings up other ID I can't you
20:36can't even get there can't even see how
20:38that person would have that view the
20:40challenge with this mode is that it's
20:42really hard to get people to cooperate
20:45with you over the long term as you guys
20:49grow teams you may start seeing this
20:50flaw and actually some some managers it
20:52becomes very easy to see actually when
20:53it's not you but through someone else
20:56where people overtime just aren't
20:58interested in working for them or don't
20:59find them compelling so this is kind of
21:02the the most embryonic phase you can be
21:04in as an adult which i think is has
21:07office of obvious limitations once you
21:09advance beyond stage two you get to
21:13stage 3 the socialized mind or as I call
21:15it the NPC a non-playable character in
21:18the game this is most adults and these
21:22are people who are kind of able to see
21:24the other side but they almost they
21:26almost see it too well and the not sense
21:28they're kind of NPCs they have no
21:30internal locus of control they really
21:33care about what other people are
21:35thinking about them all the time and the
21:37social narrative of you know oh people
21:40think I'm dumb becomes their narrative
21:43therefore I'm dumb if
21:44make sense so you've kind of pendulum
21:47swung a little bit too far where instead
21:50of not carrying really about what other
21:52people think you now are entirely driven
21:54by it occasionally we'll see founders
21:57that I you know are kind of in this mode
21:59it's just it's really hard to have an
22:00independent mindset when you're when
22:04you're in this mode and any any any
22:08great company as you guys know there
22:09faces a lot of unknowns and you have to
22:11be able to kind of stare into the abyss
22:12and say there's a light at the end of
22:14the tunnel and it's really hard to do
22:16that if you're constantly gut checking
22:19yourself about what other people think
22:20about you there's some value here like
22:22the opinion of other people is actually
22:24important it's a great way to know if
22:26you're doing something right or wrong
22:27the problem with people in this mindset
22:29is they're just unable to have their own
22:32framework for how to live life or their
22:34own kind of truly independent ideals
22:37once you evolve beyond that you reach
22:41the kind of master player face or the
22:44self authoring phase and this is in
22:46Keegan's view some adults you've less
22:48motivation by social formation and you
22:52have a kind of consistent independent
22:55frame of mind and so you have certain
22:57values certain ideals certain things you
22:58hold yourself by and you can identify
23:02with them and and you know what those
23:03are you know I am a person who cares a
23:05lot about X and that's that's like a
23:08part of the inner monologue in your mind
23:11importantly you're able to take
23:12responsibility for your own emotion so
23:14this comes back to that that point of
23:16playing in the third person of you know
23:20I'm feeling angry at you because you
23:21said you you kind of assaulted a value I
23:23hold dearly so you kind of know who you
23:26are at this phase this is this may
23:29actually be the best phase for a founder
23:33because you have very clear ideals that
23:35you hold on to you kind of know who you
23:38you're aware of your emotions and in it
23:41slightly different from that the second
23:43phase we were talking about moments ago
23:45you're able to kind of play an infinite
23:47game with people where you're optimizing
23:49for the collective group not just for
23:52yourself but you do have kind of a sense
23:54of where you stand there is another face
23:58and and kind of Keegan's interesting
24:00claim here is that very few adults make
24:01this phase the kind of self transforming
24:05mind and if previously we were talking
24:06about you know a really competent game
24:09player this would be almost a game
24:11designer this is someone who is not
24:15really held by back by any sense of who
24:18they are as a person when it values and
24:20ideals they have and is able to
24:22basically embrace and extend any of the
24:26opinions and ideas of people around him
24:28so they're constantly being recreated by
24:30the group that they're in if that makes
24:33you could almost an engineering metaphor
24:35would be that this person can kind of
24:36run any idea that comes to them envy em
24:39you know and they kind of kind of kind
24:41of properly evaluate it they're
24:43genuinely curious and interested in
24:45other people they're willing to drop an
24:47entire ideology and swap it for another
24:49one you know in moments if it kind of
24:51makes sense for them and unlike you know
24:54that second phase it's not being driven
24:56by what will other people think it's
24:58truly being driven by the quality of
25:00that idea and ideology the other very
25:04interesting thing about these people
25:05that I find fascinating is the tendency
25:07to think in systems so when someone is
25:10bringing up an idea you know being able
25:12to very quickly realize oh they're
25:13bringing up that idea because of X Y & Z
25:16you know because that's their position
25:17in the organization or that's their
25:19background or that's the environment
25:20they grew up in it's almost like you're
25:22seeing the entire map or you're on the
25:24hundredth floor of the building and
25:25you're seeing the entire city fold
25:27underneath unfold underneath you as
25:29opposed to being on the first floor they
25:33make the interesting case that this is I
25:36mean this is the vision this is where
25:38you want to get to it's actually not
25:39clear to me for founders that you want
25:41to be here until you have product market
25:42fit there's something very interesting
25:44about these people which is they're
25:46generally I find they're very good at
25:48managing very high quality talent who
25:52needs to be properly heard needs to be
25:54properly understood in order to be
25:55inspired to come into work every day but
26:00danger of making metaphors but when you
26:03think of Elon or Steve Jobs it's not
26:05clear that you end up here it's a little
26:06bit more Stage four they have an idea
26:08and there's going to railroad it through
26:12but I think an but I think it's an
26:15interesting thing to hold on to long
26:16term and I definitely think as you guys
26:17growing as your companies you start
26:19building out a strong executive bench
26:21this is actually what's required to get
26:24a players to to be interested in working
26:26for you you have to really be able to
26:29set up an environment where they can
26:33live their own ideology and they feel
26:35challenged by you and they feel like
26:36you're willing to adopt it and you can
26:38actually put together people with very
26:41different ideologies and kind of get
26:42them to mesh together it's like you're
26:44designing you know the game as opposed
26:47to being an individual player so I
26:49thought so that's so so the question is
26:51like okay given where you know one is
26:54and there's a case to be made that we
26:56can't really ever evaluate where we
26:57stand on this kind of thing how do you
26:59move on to the next phase how do you
27:00become less maybe self-centered and more
27:02focused intrinsically in in kind of
27:05motivating others to join your cause I
27:07think knowing the concepts actually can
27:09really help because then you can kind of
27:11label some thoughts that you have and
27:12say well that's you know stage two not
27:15five and if you guys are interested in
27:17this you should just Google Bob Keegan
27:18and read any of his books time according
27:22to him just kind of moves a person along
27:26a continuum here there's of course this
27:27question of derivative how quickly are
27:29moving one very practical thing that I
27:33you know I I've learned to do over the
27:36age of the limited amount of time I've
27:39had on this planet is when when
27:42interacting with people especially
27:45people that you hire I would only try to
27:47ask questions you're genuinely
27:48interested in hearing the answer of it's
27:50kind of interesting especially in
27:51interviews to hear people ask these rote
27:53questions they don't really care about
27:54because that's the conventional question
27:55to ask and then they don't really listen
27:56to the answer and then they're not
27:58really having a good interaction with
27:59the person so I would I would try try to
28:02nerd Snipe yourself with this with this
28:03idea of what would be the most
28:05fascinating question to ask this person
28:06now even if it's someone who is saying
28:09something that do you drastically
28:11disagree with it's an interesting
28:13brainstorm of like what is something
28:16they would say that would cause me to
28:18change my opinion that will just make I
28:19think life more interesting from you and
28:21and and maybe help you kind of work work
28:24through that continuum
28:25so that's a little bit on leadership a
28:28lot of this especially if this is the
28:30first time leading a team a lot of this
28:32is stuff that you'll just figure out as
28:35you go along I do think it's helpful a
28:37little bit to have these concepts in
28:39your mind in terms of what's good and
28:41what's bad and where you want to be okay
28:44so I want to give you guys some closing
28:45thoughts I think it's really important
28:48that you that the metaphor of the
28:50Olympics what wasn't me kidding around I
28:52remember when I did Y Combinator in
28:54winter 2010 James Linden mom the CEO and
28:57founder of Oroku came by and he gave a
28:59talk and he said a related flavor of
29:04this which is he said that you should
29:06bill yourself at $500 an hour which at
29:10the time seemed insane to me until I
29:12found out that of course that my lawyer
29:14was billing me at 750 an hour but the
29:17point is your time is really precious
29:19and especially as your team grows you
29:22will be increasingly the choke point for
29:24getting things done and so you really
29:27have to treat yourself as an athlete if
29:29you want to survive this game because
29:30there's all of the responsibilities on
29:32your shoulders and you cannot cave you
29:35cannot cave and and go for the urgent
29:38instead of the important it's just not
29:40acceptable if it's helpful I would just
29:44assume that the others have figured this
29:46out and they're ahead of you and you
29:48just need to catch up to them so you
29:51just assume that they're well-rested
29:52they're eating properly they're thinking
29:53properly and so when you know when you
29:55find your I've certainly had nights when
29:57I was running my company or I find
29:58myself at the office three o'clock in
29:59the morning eating skittles this is not
30:01a good scene this idea of switching to
30:04kind of third-party camera mode and
30:06experiencing yourself in the third
30:07person is really important you guys are
30:09gonna have days months weeks where you
30:11get punched in the face a lot like
30:14someone it wants to quit and you lose a
30:17customer and things aren't growing the
30:22only way the only way to survive that
30:24and when you're in that mode still play
30:27all the right chess moves is to
30:29experience your emotions in the third
30:30person otherwise you get caught up in it
30:32and it's just lame honestly so I spend a
30:36lot of time thinking about that
30:38the particulars of any hack don't really
30:41matter I don't care if you don't
30:43actually drink water the key thing here
30:45is to launch and iterate your yourself
30:47kinda you have a lot of data going on
30:51about what's good what's bad what days
30:54make you feel good what days make you
30:56feel bad and just collect that
30:58information and retrain your model over
31:01and over and over I would very much try
31:06to just be genuinely curious of other
31:08people I think if you are you'll find
31:12out other people are just the most
31:14interesting thing on the planet far more
31:16so than the you know VI or whatever
31:19engineering problem you're solving it's
31:20far more dynamic than a computer and if
31:23you get really interested in what drives
31:24other people what motivates them you'll
31:26get really good at recruiting other
31:27people you get really good at motivating
31:28other people but you have to really
31:29treat it as a system that you're
31:31genuinely interested in always try to
31:32ask compelling questions of other people
31:35don't bore them don't bore yourself the
31:39last thing is a concept that's a it's a
31:41little bit hard to convey but was one of
31:43the most helpful shifts I went through
31:45which is you want to move from playing
31:47very finite games in life to infinite
31:50games and what I mean by that is 10,000
31:54different things but I guess at a high
31:56level you have I think when you you get
32:02started you tend to get very worried in
32:04various interactions that you have with
32:06people that it's zero-sum that it's a
32:08win-lose situation you know maybe
32:11there's an idea you have but you're not
32:13sure if you should share it with someone
32:14because maybe if you give it to them
32:16then they'll go out and run with it and
32:17then they'll steal all the credit and
32:20you'll be the Winklevoss and they'll be
32:22Mark Zuckerberg or something and it's
32:25really important to let those thoughts
32:27go you very much want to make believe
32:29you're playing an infinite game that
32:31doesn't really have an end the
32:32scoreboard is really unclear and you're
32:36just trying to engender as much goodwill
32:38as you want there's a great book on this
32:40topic called finite and infinite games
32:41that helps set this kind of mental frame
32:45because it's very hard to explain in
32:47words but well someone's playing Mario
32:53but you've you want to I guess move a
32:57little bit from from from kind of being
32:59focused on winning one particular
33:01interaction to winning the overall set
33:04of interactions said differently you're
33:08running a marathon not you know you're
33:10not sprinting so that's it so that's a
33:13little bit of a rant on hopefully semi
33:17productive rant on what you need to be
33:19doing in order to you know kind of
33:21improve yourself in order to advance to
33:23the next level and at the very least
33:25should be a good overview of some
33:27incredibly common startup mistakes
33:29people make to the fifty percent of you
33:31that actually follow this advice and
33:32avoid those mistakes awesome and to the
33:35fifty percent that don't or probably
33:37ninety percent that don't I told you so
33:39thank you so much you wanted sorry
33:47Q&A yes yeah sure yeah so the question
34:08was for people that leave kind of
34:09comfortable corporate positions how they
34:11handle the rollercoaster of a startup I
34:16think yeah so occasionally you see
34:21founders who there's basically two
34:24reactions to this you know if you leave
34:27you're kind of great job at Google and
34:29you go join a startup roller coaster one
34:30reaction is a version effectively like I
34:35don't want to deal with that just not
34:37focus on it or I got very used to having
34:42you know taking an extra day off on the
34:44weekend and so I'm just not going to
34:47the I those companies sadly don't do
34:49well and I think those people aren't
34:51unhappy kind of in the process while
34:53they're doing it you know startups are
34:54ultimately it's like you're playing on
34:56expert mode and it only makes sense if
34:58you're going to commit a lot of other
35:02people I think most founders that we've
35:03worked with you know humans are
35:04resilient and so you kind of figure
35:07I think I think the the real take on it
35:11is not whether the person got too too
35:13comfortable it's really like are they
35:16innately interested in working on the
35:18problem they're working on that's what I
35:19think is going on with a lot of those
35:20people is they leave like Google to
35:22start a company because they feel like
35:24they should start a company as opposed
35:26to like really being interested in in
35:28making something if that makes sense
35:30that's so that's the thing I would focus
35:32on because if you're really interested
35:33in something of course you'll spend all
35:35day thinking about it sure okay so the
35:51question is if your business kind of
35:54demands of you to be online how do you
35:55handle not kind of kind of falling into
35:58the simple Maximizer trap one very funny
36:02thing always to do in my company is we
36:06all had our monitors facing each other
36:09if that makes sense and so there was a
36:12kind of a circle and there's weird
36:16accountability that gets enforced when
36:17you do that of course no one is actually
36:19watching your monitor they're busy doing
36:21their own work but in the back you have
36:22a little voice in your head that's
36:23saying maybe they are so that's a fun
36:26hack that I think works quite well kind
36:31of team enforceability the I think the
36:35the other solution to this is is not
36:37really tackling that problem but really
36:40focusing on something else which is
36:42growing as quickly as possible and if
36:44you do like this will just be have to be
36:47a demon you slay in the process of
36:49growing as quickly as possible because
36:50you cannot grow if you're watching
36:52YouTube yeah unless you're watching your
36:55own videos yeah cheering glass and
37:07staring into the abyss okay so the
37:18question is what's my mantra regarding
37:20I don't know that I'm smart enough to
37:21have a mantra about it
37:24I but if probably if I were to have one
37:27it would be something akin to it's kind
37:29of what I mentioned earlier it's like
37:30playing a video game on kind of expert
37:32mode where the video game is really
37:34managing your own psychology and trying
37:36to build a product that works I do I do
37:38think we shouldn't like frame this as
37:40something that is painful I think like I
37:44think there are a phenomenal amount of
37:46ops that go with the Downs and for every
37:48Elon Musk quote where he's chewing glass
37:49and staring into the abyss he also gets
37:51to see his roadster in space that's
37:54pretty good so yeah so I think it's just
37:59you I mean you have to really enjoy
38:01building stuff ultimately yes well this
38:25okay so the question is you know
38:29strategies around building community and
38:31peers in order to kind of help yourself
38:33become better this is actually I think
38:34one of the main benefits of startup
38:36school and it surely one of the main
38:37benefits of YC is that you get put in a
38:40peer group with other people and what
38:42happens is you very quickly figure out
38:44humans are fascinating they they like
38:46subconsciously almost figure out where
38:47am I in the peer group who's next to me
38:49who's kind of ahead of me in the
38:51leaderboard who's beneath me where do I
38:53stand and how can I advance myself I
38:55think this is also one of the reasons
38:57why I via the campuses are so good it's
38:58not really the curriculum of the Ivy
39:00League it's the fact that you're
39:01suddenly surrounded by peers who are
39:03motivating you to be better
39:05so startup school is I think one very
39:06interesting way of scalably trying to
39:08give that to many people as possible on
39:09the internet because we know that with
39:11your when you're kind of with relative
39:13peers you're always trying to figure out
39:14how to improve yourself I yeah so doing
39:19startup school is one answer to your
39:21question to me the largest value of YC
39:24is I was suddenly challenged by the fact
39:29that yeah I thought other people in my
39:30batch were really darn good and I
39:32and I kind of realized I could compete
39:34on the same playing field so I'd
39:36encourage you guys to apply to IC and
39:38also figure out what other figure out
39:41other I don't know if there are other
39:43like online communities where you can
39:46kind of have that same sense of of
39:49competing on the leaderboard okay all
39:54the way back so the question is how do I
40:15counter the proposed reality where
40:18people are doing the opposite of this
40:19presentation and achieving greatness and
40:23I guess I would question the premise I'm
40:27not sure I agree with you I'm pretty
40:29sure that any successful unicorn founder
40:32that you meet today would kind of agree
40:36with what I said here which is even if
40:38they were doing all this crap that I
40:40defined is a mistake they wish they
40:42hadn't so there's one interesting really
40:45interesting view which is this is a
40:46necessary pain you have to go through
40:48you wish you hadn't but it was
40:50worthwhile I'm not sure I buy that like
40:52life doesn't have to suck and you don't
40:55have to make mistakes to be successful
40:59please it's good to know what would you
41:22recommend doing when you're trying to
41:25think of the next solution next product
41:27what would you recommend the question is
41:39what's kind of a good way of coming up
41:41with the next product idea or pivot
41:45you also mentioned in your question that
41:47you were working on what one thing I
41:48want to be clear to everyone here is I'm
41:52not proposing you don't work hard in
41:54order to win you have to work hard I'm
41:56proposing you don't moronically work
41:58hard and like not sleep because then
42:02you're just well you're gonna have to
42:04work much harder even to catch up but
42:08your question was how to come up with
42:09startup ideas okay I think the okay so
42:14there's a lot of great content on this
42:17P G Paul Graham has probably written the
42:19best of it I'm not gonna be able to
42:20one-up him but I think the a common
42:25mistake that comes to mind right now in
42:27terms of mistakes people make when they
42:29try to come up with the startup ideas as
42:30they're very focused on trying to come
42:33up with an idea in a very limited amount
42:35of time and it's not clear to me that's
42:36the stuff works in a pressure cooker I
42:38think to me I've had my best ideas when
42:43I haven't had any any kind of you know
42:48immediate goal I have to come up with an
42:50idea and they just start kind of coming
42:52to you and I have a Google Doc of maybe
42:55a thousand different ideas of which I'll
42:57build probably none but I think the
43:00point is it's much easier to think of
43:02this when you're not necessarily in a
43:03pressure cooker and I'd really question
43:05the fact of like maybe you don't need a
43:07start-up idea I think the most common
43:09one of one of a very common mistake I
43:11seen a lot of YC applicants is they're
43:13obsessed with starting a startup which
43:17is actually not what you want to do my
43:20greatest hope when I have an idea today
43:22is that someone else will build it I
43:23have no interest in going through the
43:26whole startup thing so if you don't have
43:29any great ideas just that's not a
43:31problem that's not a bug or a flaw yes
43:43okay so the question is how do I get out
43:45of the pressure cooker and how do I
43:46manage risk two different questions I
43:48think if I understand the second one
43:50properly I think the best way to get out
43:55of the pressure cooker is I would just
43:59Saturday and just like I mentioned not
44:02work physically like go north of if you
44:07live in San Francisco going north of it
44:09and walk in the woods for a while that's
44:10great and I don't think you need that
44:15how do I think about managing risk
44:18that's like a very big question um boy I
44:21think a lot of it depends on well I
44:25think the a very common mistake maybe
44:27this will be somewhat novel or
44:28interesting a common mistake people make
44:30when managing risk is you know they
44:32pattern match type 1 and type 2
44:35decisions and properly that is to say
44:36this is the Jeff business framework of
44:38you know you got your type 1 decisions
44:40where the cost of downside is
44:41catastrophic type 2 decisions where you
44:43know ultimately if you make the mistake
44:44nothing bad happens and I think a very
44:46common flaw is you think things are type
44:511 when they're in fact type to you and
44:54and more often than not the the right
44:56call is to just go for it or whatever
44:58the risky path is because the downside
45:01scenario you're imagining is a little
45:03bit too creative probably so I've
45:06definitely found when I've taken the
45:07riskier approach definitely have have
45:09been rewarded by life and I'll probably
45:11continue seeing that until suddenly I'll
45:12just die because I you know decided to
45:16jump out of an airplane that was a bad
45:17idea but so that maybe there's a
45:20survivorship bias problem but more often
45:22than not the riskier path is the right
45:25one more question sure sorry sure yeah
45:40so the question is how to get your
45:42co-founders on board for doing the stuff
45:44and again I should reimburse doing this
45:46stuff it doesn't mean chilling
45:48it means like not dying while you're
45:52building your company so I think a lot
45:55of it is the framing and I think if you
45:59if if you're not careful with the
46:00framing a this comes across as let's
46:02let's bring the perks of Google into our
46:06startup life which is a recipe for
46:09it's hard this is a weird piece of
46:13like I mentioned three or four times a
46:15lot of people refused to or just unable
46:18to accept it and they need to like fail
46:21and fall on their face before they
46:23return the model in general though I
46:28think this is a very interesting
46:29question what to do in situations where
46:31you disagree with your co-founders
46:32especially if there's no tiebreaker a
46:35super common problem if you like another
46:38founder product decisions what do you do
46:39when you disagree one useful hack I did
46:43for a while with my co-founder because
46:45we're great friends best friends in fact
46:47but loose to have these bitter product
46:49disagreements is you can just cycle
46:53through different months where people
46:55have responsibilities on a particular
46:57area and so you could say look for the
46:58next six months you're running product I
47:00may not agree with you you get to run
47:01product and then six months afterwards
47:03we'll check in maybe we'll swap over but
47:07just really defining time constrained
47:09areas where a person gets ultimate
47:12ownership is one I think underrated
47:14solution to the like co-founder
47:16disagreement problem hopefully that's
47:18somewhat useful all right thank you all
47:20for listening sorry we started late and
47:22I'll be around here if you guys have any
47:24questions I can help answer
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