00:00so our next speaker and I have something
00:03in common we both started businesses to
00:07allow people to create websites the
00:09difference is that David's business was
00:11massively successful davidenko is the
00:15founder of Weebly which early this year
00:17sold two square and he's going to give
00:19us a talk about how Weebly found product
00:27thanks Jeff I'm really happy to be here
00:30I'm actually very impressed with how
00:32full the room is given it's right after
00:34Burning Man did anyone go this year oh
00:38not too many attendees all right we got
00:40one over there okay so so just my quick
00:43way introduction a little bit by myself
00:44if you haven't heard of Weebly Weebly is
00:47an easy way for entrepreneurs to build a
00:49website or an online store before Weebly
00:52got started the only way to do that was
00:54to learn to code yourself and now there
00:56are plenty of tools and services to
00:58allow you to drag and drop and build a
00:59site I wrote the first line of code in
01:02February 2016 so a little over 12 years
01:05ago now grew that company to 50 million
01:08users and around 350 employees sold the
01:11square in May of this year for three
01:13hundred sixty-five million and probably
01:15one of my favorite stats is that half of
01:17the US population visits a Weebly site
01:20every single month the reason it's my
01:22favorite is is because it's reflective
01:24of the success of the entrepreneurs
01:26people building the websites themselves
01:27and actually having success and seeing
01:30those results so I'm here to talk to you
01:32today about how to find product market
01:34fit it's a you know the top problem that
01:38any one deals with I'm gonna try to keep
01:40it fairly practical not theoretical
01:43because I think finding part market fit
01:45is really about the the practical nitty
01:47gritty the hustle so I I want to just
01:51preview real quick talk to you a little
01:52bit about our journey like I said I
01:53wrote the first line of code a little
01:56over 12 years ago which which sounds
01:58really weird that has been that long
02:01this is what it looked like this is a
02:03photo I took from February 2006 it's
02:06where I was to be a Beaver Stadium at
02:07Penn State when I wrote the first line
02:09of code just kind of gives you the
02:10setting but but in college
02:14in August of 2006 so this has been six
02:18months we should introduce this graph so
02:21this is a graph of the new users per day
02:25signing up for Weebly so non-cumulative
02:28just whenever someone signs up you know
02:30you get a one and this is six months in
02:32so we still hadn't launched six months
02:34in we're Dan Chris and I we're all doing
02:36internships that summer you can see here
02:39are our massive record signup day was
02:41twelve users I think we just create
02:44accounts for friends and family
02:45so six months in we still hadn't
02:48launched right just to give you an idea
02:50of how long it takes we worked for six
02:51months and hadn't launched in October of
02:572006 this is eight months later still
02:59hadn't launched we were hustling for
03:02buzz on forums we had create a sign-up
03:04link you can see here now we had 30-some
03:06users that signed up on our record day
03:08but eight months in and still hadn't
03:10launched in October of 2006 I read about
03:14Y Combinator on slash dot the deadline
03:17was about three hours ago so I think it
03:20was about 1:00 a.m. Eastern when I read
03:22it the deadline for application was
03:23midnight Pacific so I had about two
03:25hours to go to create it to create a YC
03:28application I didn't have time to call
03:29up Dan and Chris my co-founders and
03:31asked them if they want to drop out of
03:32school with me and moved to San
03:34Francisco so I took a guess my guess was
03:38that Chris was gonna drop by school and
03:39Dan wasn't going to I called Chris up
03:42first the next morning and said hey
03:43Chris you want to drop out of school
03:44with me moved to San Francisco and just
03:45on the spot he's like hell yeah let's do
03:48I caught up dan I said Dan you want to
03:51drop out at school with me and moved to
03:52San Francisco he said you know what this
03:53sounds like a really promising idea let
03:55me call my parents I'll call you back in
03:56two hours it was a much more responsible
04:00approach but but but I applied with less
04:03than an hour to go we drove up
04:06interviewed and got accepted actually
04:09we got finally were able to get on
04:12TechCrunch the day of our YC interview
04:15so I'm sure that that didn't hurt at all
04:16this is what that looked like
04:18this doesn't isn't actually what a
04:20normal press bike looks like you'll see
04:21a normal press bike later but in this
04:24particular case we only had two servers
04:27worried about our servers burning down
04:28an AWS didn't exist back then so we we
04:31basically decided to allow you to sign
04:33up and then say hey you're on the wait
04:35list we'll contact you once you're able
04:36to access your account which is why it's
04:38spread over a few days but the first
04:39tech crunching now this is much more
04:42normal of what it looks like after a
04:44press spike you see it kind of goes down
04:46pretty low it's kind of hovering around
04:48the same level if you're observant
04:49you'll notice here one day we had zero
04:51users that presumably means that we were
04:53the whole site was down which is great
04:56but uh but in January 2007 eleven months
04:59in we dropped out of school packed up
05:02all of our servers in my car I drove
05:04cross-country to San Francisco would not
05:07recommend driving 80 in January got
05:09stuck in Wyoming for three days but
05:11finally made it out here and this is 11
05:14months in so 11 months after writing the
05:16first line of code we're working on
05:18full-time in San Francisco as part of
05:19the YC program here's what that looked
05:22like it's still shocking to me that at
05:24one point this TV was current technology
05:27because it just looks so old now but but
05:30here we are we we went rented a
05:32one-bedroom apartment sorry two-bedroom
05:35apartment in the why scraper we pushed
05:37three desks together and we pretty much
05:38just worked all the time we work 24/7
05:40our only rules we take Saturday's off
05:42but other than that we would work until
05:44we were tired we'd sleep until we
05:45weren't we'd work until we're tired we
05:47sleep until we weren't and just kind of
05:48repeated that process here is a second
05:52TechCrunch press bike that we got in
05:54January this one's much more normal this
05:56is exactly what you should expect if you
05:58get on TechCrunch or any press it goes
06:00straight up and it's really exciting
06:02that day and then it goes straight back
06:03down the next day and but at least
06:06settles a little bit higher in April
06:102007 this was 14 months in now you
06:13notice we had a couple other press
06:15mentions what you'll notice here these
06:17are going in the wrong direction you
06:19know the number of new users per day is
06:21actually declining declining declining
06:23both of these are heading in the wrong
06:24direction means we didn't have product
06:26market fit yet we're 14 months in it's
06:28over a year and we still don't have
06:30product market fit this was kind of an
06:33interesting moment in our history
06:35because we found ourselves with less
06:36than $100 in our bank account and
06:40I see demo day was coming up soon and we
06:41were you know we kind of had some
06:45excitement and thought you know talking
06:47to investors maybe we'll be able to
06:48raise money but we certainly weren't
06:51sure of that we had just gone to Costco
06:52so we had lots of food for a couple
06:56weeks but rent was coming up and as
06:57everyone knows rent in San Francisco
06:59so about a week after this I came to
07:03this very room pitched a whole bunch of
07:05investors at demo day and we were
07:09successful in raising a 650 K at the
07:14time that was called a Series A today
07:16would probably call it a precede round
07:19of funding 14 months in this is what a
07:21price for on Series A paperwork looks
07:22like just to give you a perspective to
07:24on a little bit how crazy things have
07:26gotten out here we raise 650k on a two
07:29million dollar pre-money valuation so
07:32two point six five posts that was
07:34considered above average slightly above
07:36average we were all very jealous of
07:38Dropbox who had raised it a five million
07:40dollar post-money valuation and and and
07:45today I think that number would probably
07:46be fifteen maybe twenty so it just gives
07:49you a little bit of perspective on how
07:51you can still be very successful even if
07:52those valuation numbers today might seem
07:54low or you might be angling for a higher
07:56one but but really puts it all in
07:59perspective this is May of 2007 so we
08:02got feature in Newsweek magazine which I
08:03don't even think is in print anymore but
08:06you can see here the spike goes up it
08:09comes back down it settles at a higher
08:11level which is great but look it's going
08:13in the wrong direction again right so
08:15this is now 15 months in still no
08:17product market fit in August of 2007
08:23here's 18 months and we got featured in
08:24Time magazine this time and again it
08:28goes up but now it's coming back down
08:29now it's totally in a higher level which
08:31is good but again this is 18 months in
08:34we're 18 months into the journey and we
08:35still have no product market fit so just
08:37to give you an idea of how long it can
08:39take before having something even as
08:41basic as just having users that enjoy
08:45using your product and are coming back
08:4718 months later we still didn't have it
08:50now now to skip through a little bit of
08:54of the rest of story here here is
08:56October 2007 so now 20 months in you
08:59kind of see we had this moment and then
09:01boom it turns around it turns around and
09:03starts picking up and now all of a
09:04sudden you can see every single day
09:06we're getting almost a thousand people
09:07coming to our front door which is more
09:10than we were getting featured in
09:11Newsweek magazine or or on TechCrunch
09:13first rail traction that we got
09:15fast-forward again at February 2010 four
09:18years in and now you can see we're off
09:20to the races so I wanted to give you a
09:22little bit of snapshot of what it looked
09:23like for us to get product market fit in
09:25the early days before diving into some
09:28of the basics so so let's start with a
09:30definition on what is product market fit
09:33so you've probably all heard Y
09:35Combinator's mantra which is there we go
09:39make something people want
09:40I actually if I was a modify this I
09:42would say make something a lot of people
09:45want because that incorporates a little
09:47bit about the market but we'll talk
09:49about that so first we'll go over the
09:52stages of a company so obviously you
09:54start off with I have an idea and
09:56everything is really exciting and you're
09:57telling all your friends about the idea
09:59this is the very birth of a company
10:01let's go through some of the Fage phases
10:04so this is roughly all of the phases of
10:07a company it starts with idea you get to
10:10prototype phase you then get to launch
10:12traction monetization and growth I put
10:15monetization after traction because
10:17oftentimes that's the way it goes and
10:20actually getting going from launch and
10:22getting to traction is product market
10:24fit monetization is actually a much
10:26easier problem than product market fit
10:28this these are the this is sort of the
10:33initial product market fit search
10:35initial product market fit search is
10:37between idea and traction so getting
10:39from idea to traction is probably the
10:41hardest thing and the thing that kills
10:43the most companies all right here we go
10:45one thing not to forget is that when
10:47you're in this phase two you're still
10:49refining product market fit a lot of
10:51companies forget that they they get so
10:53focused on scaling and so focused on you
10:56know continue to grow the business and
10:57they completely forget that you're still
10:59refining and still building product
11:00market fit at this stage so really
11:01important not to forget this all right
11:04so what are the hardest things at a star
11:08and I'm convinced that there's basically
11:10only two hard things number one is
11:13finding product market fit it's really
11:14really really hard most companies will
11:16not be able to find product market fit
11:18it's incredibly challenging
11:20number two is hiring and building a
11:22world-class team that is also incredibly
11:25challenging it's very unintuitive and
11:28it's very very difficult to sort of grow
11:30through that rapid growth phase and to
11:31and to emerge on the other side with
11:33sort of an enduring long-lasting company
11:35and culture making money I put is a very
11:38distant third it is usually a lot harder
11:42to build a product that a lot of people
11:45really really want than it is to figure
11:48out how to make money from that product
11:49so I would say that's usually a distant
11:52third you could have lots of ideas how
11:53to make money I'd say definitely try to
11:55make money experiment learn but it's a
11:58lot easier to figure how to make money
11:59if you've already got people hooked and
12:01then the fourth one we won't cover this
12:03too much but but to scale to a to a
12:05really big long enduring company you
12:08need to build an organization that's
12:10scalable and repeatedly launches great
12:12products and that's really really hard
12:14because it's not just going to be about
12:15the founders anymore
12:16it's about the organization doing so
12:18scalable and repeatably one one other
12:23sidebar is that the best companies will
12:26create a market so if you look at sort
12:29of what we Blees done if you look at
12:30what air B&B is done if you look at what
12:31Dropbox has done all all companies have
12:34created their own market I say this
12:36because by definition here market
12:39research is not going to help market
12:41research is research on existing markets
12:43right and you're going to create a new
12:45market so how do you do that what does
12:47that look like so first of all you need
12:51to find a hidden need so there's a need
12:54out in the market that a lot of
12:56companies or a lot of people don't
12:58realize exists and if people realize it
13:02exists if it was obvious then everyone
13:05would be doing it and so so so the
13:08hardest part is finding this hidden need
13:10and everyone is going to tell you that
13:13everyone's gonna tell you it's stupid I
13:14remember in in the summer of 2006 after
13:19writing that first line of code
13:21I went and pitched we believe at the New
13:23York tech meetup and it was a thousand
13:25people it was we were kind of alpha
13:27stage at that point and it was in front
13:29of a thousand people and I gave a demo
13:31five-minute demo and then Scott the
13:32founder of meetup comm came on stage and
13:34just said he thought it was the
13:35stupidest idea that he'd ever heard and
13:38that no one need to make websites and
13:40that people who need to make websites
13:42already could or people´s had to learn
13:44to code and from a thousand people told
13:46us that it was we had the stupidest
13:48 idea he'd ever heard so that the
13:51point I'm making is if it's obvious then
13:55everyone will be doing it so you're kind
13:56of finding a new reason now the hidden
13:59need in in this particular case was that
14:01there was a lot of people who need to
14:02make a website themselves and that was
14:04really hard because a lot of the tools
14:05at the time were geared towards people
14:07who were who were hand coding the
14:08websites basically like front-page and
14:10we were able to realize that people
14:11wanted to do that and build a service
14:13that enabled people to do that but
14:16figure out what are you a substitute for
14:18what need are you serving better what
14:20job are people hiring you to do if you
14:24know the jobs would be done book and
14:25framework that's really helpful to think
14:26about what are people trying to do
14:28people aren't trying to make a website
14:29people are trying to launch and grow
14:31their business right so understanding
14:33what's the job people are trying to do
14:34and then what substitutes are there for
14:37that job and so when you think from that
14:39mindset you might think well there's a
14:40website you can also create a Facebook
14:42page you could also there's lots of
14:43different substitutes for that job I
14:46think a really important one is
14:47understanding where are you getting
14:49pulled where are your customers pulling
14:51you as you shouldn't be pushing your
14:53customers towards a solution when you
14:56when things are working your customers
14:59are beating a path to your front door
15:00and they're pulling you in saying no can
15:02you need to do this and you're saying
15:04yeah but that's not what our product
15:05does they say well I'm going to kind of
15:06hack it to do that anyway when you find
15:09people hacking your product to do
15:10something that wasn't intended to do pay
15:12attention to that and double down on
15:13that and then often what you initially
15:17create will seem to fit into an existing
15:19market but with less functionality right
15:21so is the same thing with the iPhone
15:23it's the same thing with Weebly
15:25oftentimes it doesn't have 3G it doesn't
15:28have apps it doesn't have any of these
15:30things initially but what it does do is
15:32it enables a whole new market
15:34whole set of new entrants to come and
15:35use your product and so the success of
15:37the iPhone wasn't that it's successfully
15:39competing in smart phones it sure looked
15:40like a smart phone but it wasn't
15:43competing against any smart phones that
15:44were out there because what happened is
15:46there was maybe at that point in time I
15:48was a heavy Palm Treo user there is
15:49maybe a couple million smartphone users
15:51in the United States what the iPhone did
15:53is made everyone a smartphone user and
15:55so there is all send a whole bunch of
15:57new entrants and then over time it also
16:00cannibalized the existing smartphone
16:02market so a lot of times people may sort
16:06of mistake you for incumbents when
16:07you're creating an entirely new market
16:09so the next is on building a remarkable
16:12product so what does this process look
16:14like and I'll try to break it down into
16:15very literal steps about exactly what
16:17you should be doing so everyone knows
16:20this right step one have a great idea
16:21step two talks customers step three
16:23something happens there and set for
16:25profit right everyone knows this but
16:27what is step three right because that's
16:29where everyone's plotting around in the
16:31desert like trying to figure out what
16:32the hell to do and nothing's working so
16:35let's talk about step three so step
16:38three is literally this list of things
16:40so you talk to customers and develop a
16:43market thesis try to understand exactly
16:44what their pain point is what's that job
16:47they're trying to get done and how can
16:48you help them get it done faster or
16:51better this is really important listen
16:53to their problems not their solutions so
16:57customers will tell you the pain that
16:59they're facing listen to that when they
17:01talk about the solutions they're
17:02proposed solutions you could just
17:04completely ignore that because they
17:06generally aren't that great number three
17:10go through a rapid prototyping and user
17:11testing phase number four you build a
17:14solution to their problems number five
17:16test the solution with them
17:17number six did it work go to one repeat
17:20and then number seven by the time you've
17:23sort of looped on points one to six
17:27you probably looped about twenty seven
17:28times and that has some interesting
17:30implications but no one ever gets it
17:32right on the first shot no one gets it
17:34right in the first shot so there's some
17:35implications there so so let's take
17:39enough on a few of them listen to their
17:40problems not their solutions I like what
17:41did Michael touch on this earlier too
17:43about the real Steve Jobs and fake Steve
17:45Jobs there's this meme out there that
17:47Steve Jobs just didn't
17:48to customers and would just like produce
17:50the magical product that the world
17:52needed like in one shot just straight
17:54from his imagination that's not how it
17:58here's a quote some people say give
18:00customers what they want that's not my
18:02approach I think Henry Ford once said if
18:04I'd asked customers they wanted they
18:05would have told me a faster horse people
18:07don't know what they want until you show
18:08it to them that's why I never rely on
18:09market research that is all a hundred
18:13don't listen to people's proposed
18:15solutions a market research is probably
18:17not going to show you the way right but
18:19what he didn't say is that he never
18:20talks to customers he didn't say that he
18:22never listens to their problems he
18:24didn't say that he never iterates
18:25because those are all things that Apple
18:27does a whole lot so it's absolutely
18:31critical talk to customers understand
18:34their pain no solution was ever
18:37delivered perfectly in a vacuum
18:38number three rapid prototyping and user
18:41testing so I think this is a really
18:42important point building a fully that we
18:44made this mistake a whole lot early on
18:45building a fully functional product just
18:48to figure out if it's going to work or
18:50not is a really really expensive way to
18:52test the hypothesis um so you could get
18:54caught up in this loop of like build the
18:56product launch it doesn't work
18:58scrap repeat build the product launch
19:00doesn't work and especially like Michael
19:01was saying if you're always searching
19:03for that homerun and it takes you three
19:04months to build that product that is a
19:06really long time to keep iterating the
19:10best thing you can do however you end up
19:12doing it is focus on getting to a
19:13functional prototype as quickly as
19:15possible so that might be there's a
19:17whole bunch of tools now that allow you
19:19to take mock-ups and make them clickable
19:20and make them feel a lot like an app you
19:23can do it by just writing throwaway code
19:25and just getting something really really
19:26quickly out there there's a whole lot of
19:28ways to write to write functional
19:29prototypes but but get in front of users
19:32don't worry yet about scaling I know we
19:35were really obsessed about writing code
19:36that was going to scale because the
19:38underlying assumption there is that as
19:39soon as we launch it millions of people
19:41are gonna be dapat to our front door it
19:42doesn't happen not gonna happen so don't
19:45worry about scaling until you need to I
19:46would say initially don't worry about
19:49monetization either you want to focus on
19:52making sure that the product experience
19:54is right don't shy away from monetizing
19:57your products don't shy away from
19:58charging for them but initially
20:01you need to make sure that your product
20:03is working for people and then expect it
20:06however many iterations you think it
20:08will take expect it'll take about ten
20:09times that many iterations so what are
20:12the implications of that and these are
20:13really important number one keep your
20:14burn low because if you only have enough
20:16cash in the bank for two to three
20:18iterations and it's going to take you 20
20:19to 30 then that's not gonna work
20:23and number two build a team that can do
20:25this really quickly so this is I think
20:28one of the primary reasons why
20:29outsourcing the coding in the early days
20:32generally doesn't work it's because when
20:34you outsource a project that's one shot
20:35well if it's gonna take you 20 to 30
20:38shots not gonna work you need to build a
20:41team that can very very quickly iterate
20:43rinse and repeat okay this is another
20:48important point tests a solution with
20:50customers so here are your here you are
20:53your there's some helpful tools here but
20:55the most important rules are number one
20:57make sure you're talking to a target
20:58customer so it's not helpful to just
21:01talk to anyone make sure it's one you're
21:03targeting but make sure that you are
21:05super flexible on changing your view on
21:08who those target customers are so when
21:10you talk to someone and it seems like
21:12hey this isn't my target customer but
21:14then also there's a whole bunch of them
21:15showing up and they're hacking and doing
21:17really interesting things with your
21:18product you should pay attention to that
21:19and potentially change who your target
21:21customer is number two don't overthink
21:24it I think this is a problem a lot of
21:25smart people can have you obviously you
21:27want to rely on data you want to rely on
21:28market research you get really really
21:30into the weeds and the strategy and you
21:32super overthink everything don't
21:35anecdotal is okay just getting in there
21:37and building and launching something and
21:40trying it out and iterating is the most
21:41important thing you can do doing all of
21:43your homework all of your research you
21:45know looking at the market looking at
21:47the strategy it's gonna be the perfect
21:48stretch it's gonna be the perfect
21:49strategy but no one's going to use your
21:50product so don't don't overthink it here
21:54are basically three tools I think these
21:55are probably the only three that you
21:57need number one customer interviews you
22:00probably need about five to ten of these
22:02so basically what this is is it's
22:04talking to a customer probably for about
22:05an hour maybe a little bit longer
22:07whether it's on the phone or going into
22:09their place of business
22:10or going to where they are and just
22:12understanding everything about what
22:14motivates them what their
22:15problems are what their pain is and just
22:17getting that qualitative view of like
22:20what they're experiencing
22:22number two UX testing sessions you only
22:25need about three to five of these and
22:27and we'll go over how to run a good us
22:29testing session I think on the next
22:30slide number three metrics so metrics
22:33are obviously really important tracking
22:35the right metrics is really important
22:37the one thing I'll say is you'll never
22:39have as large of a sample size as you
22:41even at Weebly scale today we still
22:43sometimes have difficulty with getting
22:45cisco significance for some of our tests
22:47be very careful about telling too many
22:49stories with your metrics that maybe
22:51aren't supported by the statistical
22:54significance so you'll oftentimes find
22:57this there'll be blogs writing about an
22:58a/b test and how you change the color
23:01from red to blue and increase
23:03conversions by 27% and it's like oh yeah
23:05how many people are there are 17 people
23:07that ran through your test like I'm not
23:09sure that I would pay attention to that
23:12okay UX testing sessions I think these
23:14are the most important thing that you
23:16can do it's really really simple but but
23:19but it can be really painful
23:20number one get someone to use your
23:22Proctor service in front of you in
23:23person whether that's on your phone
23:25whether that's sitting in front of a
23:26laptop or desktop get them to use it
23:28number two encourage them to give open
23:30and honest feedback they will not want
23:32to give you open honest feedback because
23:33it feels awkward telling someone that
23:36their baby's ugly but but you have to
23:39try your best to encourage open and
23:42honest feedback number three ask them to
23:44perform a task you are not allowed to
23:47touch the phone or keyboard you are not
23:49allowed to do anything once you tell
23:51them to perform the task number four and
23:54this is most difficult do not say
23:57anything it's really really really hard
24:01you will go through extreme agony as
24:04they struggle to figure out how the hell
24:06to do something really basic like sign
24:08up for your app and you'll go through
24:11all this pain and it'll probably take
24:12them two to three minutes and you'll get
24:14this visceral gut feeling you you are
24:17not allowed to touch or tell them to do
24:19anything until they successfully
24:21complete the task even when they ask for
24:23your help it's really really hard you
24:25only need three to five testing sessions
24:28I think you really only need three
24:29to be able to tell the most critical and
24:32important UX bugs if you will that you
24:34have I'll tell you one story on this
24:36we were about to launch a home page once
24:38and we want to get the sign up form
24:39fields down to as few as possible to
24:42reduce the friction of signing up to
24:44Weebly and so we figured well you don't
24:47really need confirm password so we got
24:50rid of that one and in fact you don't
24:52really need to confirm your email which
24:53used to be a thing and so we figured
24:55well we could just ask for email and
24:57password that'll be enough and in the
25:00off case someone missed types their
25:01password that just reset so their email
25:03and the chances someone missed types
25:04both their email and their password then
25:06I guess they're gonna had to create a
25:07but that's not that big of a deal so we
25:10so we so we put the signup form and it
25:13said sign up here in probably like
25:16hundred point font and then it had two
25:18fields it said email address password
25:20and we're about to launch it but we had
25:23the practice of doing this before we
25:24launch anything and so I got a couple
25:27people down they were just friends and I
25:28sat in front of the laptop and said sign
25:30up and and these were tech people and at
25:35about 45 seconds later turns I don't I
25:37don't know how to sign up how do you not
25:42know how to sign up it says sign up here
25:44in a hundred point font like what the
25:46hell's going on another side point
25:49people don't read so so and I said well
25:53why don't you know how to set up is
25:54right here and I said oh that makes so
25:56much sense well I just didn't look at
25:57that because I assumed email password as
25:58a login form obviously so wasn't the
26:01signup form as a login form so we added
26:03a gratuitous field that just says your
26:05name so we could have three fields and
26:08all sudden people saw it as a signup
26:09form which is incredible this is the
26:12kind of thing we would have never
26:13discovered if we hadn't done UX testing
26:15so I would recommend doing it all the
26:16time for everything you want you don't
26:18need that many sessions okay here's
26:21another question comes up when should we
26:22launch there's this whole Minimum Viable
26:26Product which i think is a lot of the
26:28thinking is is is good its new since we
26:31launched but I don't really like the
26:32word viable because it's kind of
26:35insinuating that you're gonna put like
26:36the like just the least crappy thing you
26:42the word remarkable so minimum
26:45remarkable product the product that is
26:48the the least you can build to be
26:50remarkable alright so this is a quote
26:53from Paul bhai that says launch when
26:54your product is better than what's out
26:56there I think this is really important
26:59because it basically incorporates this
27:03idea that that you should build
27:07something that's better than anything
27:08else out there and don't launch until
27:10you have that but as soon as you have it
27:12then go ahead and launch so I think
27:14that's a right time to launch
27:15prioritising okay I think this is
27:18another important point to make is how
27:19do you prioritize because in the early
27:21days it seems like there's an infinite
27:23amount of things to build and you don't
27:25have enough time to build any of them
27:27and and so how do you figure out what
27:30the hell to build next I think there's
27:33two important points on prioritizing
27:34number one there's only one thing that
27:36matters think about that
27:38startup journey from idea to grow stage
27:42focus only on the thing that gets you to
27:45that next stage don't focus on anything
27:48else don't go to conferences don't like
27:52write blog posts don't read the news now
27:55I'm telling this because like I did all
27:57those things it's impossible not to but
27:59just don't if you can't don't do any of
28:01them don't do any of the things that
28:03aren't getting you to your next
28:05milestone in this particular case next
28:07milestone being product market fit
28:09number two I think is a really
28:11interesting point I heard this from
28:15Astro teller who ran Google X and what
28:18most people prioritize almost everyone
28:20prioritizes their lists exactly the same
28:22way which is effectively some kind of
28:23spreadsheet of all the tasks you can do
28:25and then the difficulty of each and then
28:28the expected payoff of each how
28:29impactful right and so and then you may
28:32see sort by cost times benefit but
28:34instead I think when you're trying to
28:35make continuous improvement that's
28:38actually a pretty good approach when
28:39you're trying to make discontinuous
28:40optimize for learning so basically ask
28:43yourself what is my biggest unknown
28:44right now what's the number-one thing
28:46that I do not know you know about my
28:49business that I need to learn optimize
28:51to learn that thing because when you do
28:53that it might not seem like the biggest
28:55thing it might be a low
28:56effort tasks it might seem like a low
28:58priority task but when you optimize to
29:00learn the most what do you do you
29:02rewrite your whole priority list because
29:03when you learn that thing that actually
29:04completely you throw out all your old
29:07priorities and have a new list of new
29:08ones okay how do I know when I've
29:12achieved product market fit this is
29:14another common question so I think
29:16there's basically three key metrics you
29:17should be tracking number one returning
29:20usage number two NPS and number three
29:23paying customer renewal rates so
29:25returning usage is basically just look
29:27at people who sign up or come to your
29:30site or your app and look at the number
29:32of people who come back within a day
29:34within three days than seven days within
29:3630 days right if you track that metric
29:38more than anything else that is the
29:40indicator that things are working in the
29:43early stages I remember handing out
29:45Weebly logins to all my friends and
29:46family and none of them came back and
29:48those are the people who liked you the
29:50most and those are the people who would
29:53really want you to be successful and if
29:55they're not coming back then no one's
29:57gonna come back and so I think number
30:00one tracking return usage is really
30:01important number two track NPS there's
30:04all kinds of tools to do this now here
30:06NPS some people say 40 I think about 50
30:07oh it's above 50 then you probably
30:09achieve product market fit
30:10NPS if you've ever answered that
30:12question would you recommend this
30:14product or service to a friend that's
30:15NPS it's one question you rank from zero
30:18to ten basically the percentage of
30:20people who answer nine or ten those are
30:23promoters the percentage of people who
30:26answer zero to six those are detractors
30:28and people who answer seven or eight are
30:30thrown out so in the early days
30:32Weebly had in NPS of 80%
30:36that was basically 88% of people
30:38answered nine or ten eight percent of
30:41people answered zero to six and my math
30:44is Right 12% of people answered at seven
30:46or eight so you base take that 88% minus
30:49eight percent equals eighty if it's
30:50above 50 you're doing pretty well the
30:52way this metric is built it can get
30:53negative and that's probably where it
30:55will start and the number three paying
30:57customer renewal rate so when you have
30:59paying customers look at their renewal
31:00rates a quick sidebar I don't like the
31:03churn metric for looking at this a lot
31:05of people use that because it's easier
31:06to calculate but basically churn is not
31:10renewals cohort-based sojourn is just
31:12looking at number of subscribers loss
31:13divided by total active subscribers in
31:16any given period I don't like that
31:17because if your denominator is changing
31:22like let's say you're growing really
31:23really quickly you're in denominators
31:24changing faster than you Newman
31:25numerator the numerator is based on last
31:27year's denominator and so basically it's
31:30it's it could be deceptive as to what
31:33your actual churn is but your renewal
31:34rates are great cuz that's looking for
31:36the number the percentage of people who
31:37are eligible to renew and what
31:38percentage those people actually renewed
31:40and that's cohort based so I like
31:42renewal rates a lot better alright next
31:46metrics aren't included so number one
31:48metric that is not included is signups
31:50this is something that was not very well
31:52understood when we got started I would
31:53not pay that much attention to signups I
31:55would pay a lot of attention to active
31:57users if you have good returning usage
32:00and signups translates active users
32:01pretty well if you have bad returning
32:03usage then signups basically like
32:05completely drops off and you have very
32:07little active users in fact that number
32:09may even be shrinking even when your
32:11signups are growing if people are
32:12returning number to conversion rate if
32:15you're thinking of building a SAS
32:16business conversion rates they all start
32:18low they build over time I wouldn't pay
32:20a lot of attention to conversion rate in
32:22the beginning I'd pay attention to some
32:23of the other metrics I think it's the
32:28last point just how does it feel when
32:29you get product market fit you'll know
32:32when you achieved it when your customers
32:34are beating a path to your door when you
32:37don't have it everything feels hard it
32:38feels like you're pushing this huge rock
32:40up a mountain you're pushing your
32:42customers towards a solution they're too
32:45nice to tell you no but they're not
32:47really coming back they're not really
32:48using it when you have it the whole
32:51world is beating a path to your door
32:52everyone wants to use it
32:55the press is writing about it everything
32:56feels easy and every decision you make
32:58feels like you're a genius because they
33:00all go well you know spoiler alert it's
33:03somewhere in between it turns out that
33:05you know as you're scaling your business
33:06over time you'll discover you're maybe a
33:09little less smart than you thought you
33:10were but but but that comes later
33:13but I think this is what it feels like
33:15so if you're not feeling that you know
33:17sort of customers pulling you in a
33:19direction world beat you know beating a
33:21path to your door then you probably
33:24all right now a couple more points
33:25beyond prime market fit this is a little
33:28bit more theoretical I think the most
33:31important is just the very sort of
33:33tactical like how do you go and build a
33:35product just talk to customers listen to
33:37their problems not their solutions
33:39iterate its Huynh and then keep
33:41launching until you get something out
33:43there focus on a couple key metrics but
33:45a couple points I want to make number
33:48one there's there's fundamentally three
33:50things that a start-up needs to do in
33:52order to be successful and this is a
33:54little bit past just product market fit
33:56number one product needs to be
33:58meaningfully better than the
33:59alternatives I think this is sort of
34:01described in the Paul booth I quote of
34:02launch when what you have is better than
34:04anything else out there number two
34:06you'll need to learn how to acquire
34:08customers in a differentiated way that
34:10scales and number three you'll need to
34:12invent your business model without
34:14killing your attraction this gets into a
34:16little bit more than product market fit
34:17an expanded version here but basically
34:20product market Channel model fit and
34:23what this goes to show is like you can
34:25build a product that works really well
34:27for a market but the model is busted
34:29right your your your your the model the
34:35way that you charge people you know
34:36doesn't work maybe you're not charging
34:38enough maybe you're charging too much
34:39that has a lot of interplay with your
34:41channel this is how you acquire
34:42customers right so if your model if it
34:45for example if you're building a
34:47solution you're trying to charge $75 a
34:51month for it that's probably a pretty
34:52tough spot to businesses because you're
34:54gonna be in the middle you're not going
34:55to be able to afford a Salesforce right
34:58you're not gonna build afford actual
34:59people selling your product to the
35:01customers directly but it's too much
35:03money that people are gonna want to just
35:05whip out their credit card and start
35:07paying that right and so that's why
35:08often times you know between the model
35:10and the channel there needs to be a fit
35:11there as well because if you're gonna if
35:13you're gonna have a sales force you're
35:14probably need to charge people at least
35:16two or three hundred dollars a month to
35:17build afford the Salesforce and if you
35:20are can have a Salesforce and you should
35:22probably charge $25 a month or less this
35:25all of course plays with the product and
35:28market fit which is which is how this
35:30all works together so there's a essay
35:33here which the HubSpot growth framework
35:34which I'd highly recommend reading for a
35:36little bit more on this
35:37another sidebar is on scaling the team
35:40so I think this is a really important
35:41point to make don't scale the team until
35:45you have product market fit so I would
35:49not scale past about 20 people so around
35:5220 people choose between about 23 and 25
35:54is when everything breaks in the startup
35:56because you can no longer be just just
36:00you know completely flat if you look at
36:02any of the essays you know if you look
36:03at you know back in the day 37signals
36:05had this essay of like how big a
36:06perfectly flat company is amazing and no
36:08one ever needs to hire managers and it's
36:10like I could predict to within one or
36:12two employees exactly the size you are
36:14and it's about 23 to 25 and it turns out
36:16that was true because about 23 to 25 it
36:18feels amazing it's completely flat just
36:21another couple people and everything
36:23breaks what you need to do is you need
36:24to start implementing your first layers
36:26of management and it turns out that that
36:28structure is not very good for finding
36:30product market fit it's not very optimal
36:32for that so keep your team small I would
36:36say it's okay to micromanage a little
36:39bit at this stage you should know
36:41everything that's going on you should
36:42know everything important there is know
36:44about your customers your product your
36:46market your channels you should know all
36:48of that what does that mean that helps
36:51you make really great decisions right
36:52because you have all this information
36:54it's actually a huge advantage once a
36:56company scales up then all this
36:58knowledge is distributed across people
37:00and it's really difficult to get all
37:02that knowledge to make a really good
37:04decision in one spot when it's scattered
37:06across a bunch of different people and
37:07takes a lot of different opinions to get
37:09something done so don't delegate
37:11anything important yet however once
37:16you've achieved product market fit and I
37:18think this is a mistake that that we
37:20made scale aggressively once you've
37:24achieved product market fit so at this
37:27point presumably you've either found or
37:29created a new market but it's likely
37:32you're not the only one you may not have
37:34heard of your competitors yet but
37:35there's probably other people out there
37:36doing the same thing you are in a race
37:39to capture this new market and
37:41advantages accrue to the number one
37:42player they always do even if there's
37:44not network effects in your business
37:45just having more people can build
37:49products faster that generates more Rev
37:51that attracts more financing that allows
37:53you to hire more people that generates
37:54more revenue so there's all these kind
37:55of flywheels and cycles advantages that
37:58accrue to the number one company be that
38:00company build a team aggressively but
38:03thoughtfully I think that you should
38:05probably never more than double the size
38:08your company in any given year so I
38:10don't think I know of an example of
38:13hyper growth that works out of companies
38:15that go from 20 you know 20 employees to
38:18300 in a year and that works out because
38:20what would get up doing is you build a
38:22foundation on sand based on a really
38:25shaky soil and it all eventually it's
38:27all great while you're scaling and
38:28eventually the skyscraper comes crashing
38:30down and that always seems to happen you
38:33will need to completely change the way
38:35that you work I'm including a lot more
38:36delegating at this point and no more
38:38micromanagement after you do that so
38:40there's kind of this inflection point in
38:42scaling company I think it's really
38:43important to think about because I would
38:46not scale a company pass about 20 people
38:47before you have product market fit as
38:49soon as you found it go and scale
38:51aggressively as you can and then lastly
38:54I'll talk a little bit about building a
38:56brand because I don't think it's worth
38:57spending too much time thinking about
38:59but I think it's we're spending some
39:01time thinking about when you're in the
39:03early stages so great brands are built
39:07around a fundamental insight a consumer
39:09insight that some truth that's just not
39:11really acknowledged out there and
39:14ideally this is the same one that your
39:15product is built on so it's really
39:18really powerful if you could identify
39:20that insight early on know what you
39:22stand for and build that into all of
39:24your messaging build that through into
39:26your product and that becomes the
39:28foundation of your brand so let me give
39:30you one example I talked to the person
39:33who built Virgin America's brand and so
39:40so here was their story so when they got
39:42started they were they were doing a
39:43start-up airline there are lots of
39:47economies of scale in Airlines and so
39:49they did they went out and started
39:50talking to customers and they realized
39:53that there's only four reasons why
39:54people select one airline over another
39:57the reasons we're scheduled price so
40:01again if it was three dollars cheaper
40:03I'll select that airline
40:05it was destination so if you want to fly
40:08to our SFO or Oakland and it was
40:10frequent flyer programs and they looked
40:11at each one of those and said we're not
40:12gonna win oh we can't win it's
40:14impossible win on any of these so I said
40:15okay well what's our market thesis like
40:17what are we gonna do differently and
40:19then they went out there and talked to
40:21lots of people and they said you know
40:23what the experience of flying sucks the
40:24experience of flying really really sucks
40:26so why don't we create an airline where
40:29it's not gonna be a super premium
40:30airline but it might cost fifteen
40:31dollars more for that ticket but it's
40:33going to be an amazing flying experience
40:35that was their brand that was their
40:37product and their brand they built it in
40:39right from the very beginning and
40:41everything that they did revolved around
40:43that flying experience so that's why you
40:45make a decision to invest in the super
40:47cool lighting that doesn't make any
40:48sense financially right but that is
40:50exactly about the flying experience
40:52that's why you're gonna go and pay your
40:54staff more and they're gonna have a
40:56really great attitude as they're serving
40:57the fliers that's why for every single
41:00PR event that they ever did they did it
41:02on an airplane because they want to
41:04highlight that flying experience and
41:06they create a new reason for people to
41:07buy their tickets and they were very
41:08successful at doing that so I think it's
41:10one thing to understand is I wouldn't
41:12spend too much time overthinking this
41:14but to the extent that you can
41:15understand what is that insight it
41:17should be infused in both your product
41:19and that becomes the basis for your
41:21brand over time so that is it I think
41:25I'll take a pause there and that's it so
41:45yeah so the question is I took 18 months
41:48fine product market fit and what
41:49motivated us and I like to say that it
41:52was just that we were young and stupid
41:53which is super helpful but I think I my
41:59theory on entrepreneurs is that a lot of
42:02people think that entres are risk takers
42:04I don't actually think most
42:05entrepreneurs I know are heavier risk
42:07takers I think they're calculated risk
42:09takers I think that entrepreneurs are
42:11really two primary qualities number one
42:15is they're optimists so they don't see
42:18risks where other people see risks and
42:20number two is they're determined so I
42:21just don't give up so I think you know
42:23generally speaking those are the two
42:24things your company only fails when you
42:28give up right and while you're still
42:30working on a by definition it's still
42:31going and so I think I think having that
42:34determination I wouldn't I wouldn't
42:36blindly plot on when all of the evidence
42:40shows that that this is not going to
42:41work out but but but I think just
42:45continue to be determined and knowing
42:47just having the confidence and knowing
42:49like this is something people need and
42:50just continue to work on it is is key
43:07yeah so the question is like common
43:10advice is targeting each audience were
43:11verticalized right which is which is
43:12another way to say that I think you know
43:15you're right we've been an anti-pattern
43:18you know kind of kind of runs counter to
43:21I think I'm not 100% sure why but I
43:24think it's because in our particular
43:25case the the verticals
43:28we're not deep enough to be able to
43:31support the pretty heavy investment that
43:35you need to make in the product and so
43:36basically every single person required
43:38actually a ton of functionality it was
43:40we need blogging we need e-commerce we
43:42need you know forms we need you know
43:44like a full CMS we need all these things
43:46and we need to be best class you know
43:47world class and every single vertical
43:50wanted that and no vertical was deep
43:51enough to fully support that on their
43:54own so the the the pattern of what
43:57happened to Weebly in just you know
43:58website builders or or e-commerce
44:00platforms in general is that we is that
44:02we all started off Eric horizontal and
44:04build a platform and then over time once
44:06all that function I was built out then
44:07we started to customize the verticals so
44:09I think that that's what worked in our
44:11case but but building to a specific
44:13vertical is generally good advice yeah
44:38so the questions when you're creating a
44:39market what changed to tell to telling
44:43people like you have this new thing that
44:44they didn't know they needed I think I
44:47think the experience is is likely to be
44:49similar for everyone which is which is
44:54basically the first chunk so I'd say the
44:56first three to four years of weebly's
44:57history we were mostly just trying like
45:00I remember telling reporters like you
45:01just why they're like why do we need to
45:03write a story I was like you need to
45:04write a story because no one realizes
45:06this as possible right no one
45:08so the first three to four years where
45:10us just trying to convince people like
45:11no you really can build a website like
45:13this is possible cuz everyone I mean
45:15everyone assumed unless they knew how to
45:17code everyone assumed that is beyond my
45:19capabilities that's beyond my abilities
45:21so we spent four years probably just
45:23trying to tell people and then
45:25eventually little by little people try
45:26it people try it and then that's that's
45:28that markets great it's that kind of
45:29boom moment when else and people realize
45:31that this is possible you know I think
45:34another probably great example would be
45:36either uber or Airbnb right like Airbnb
45:39was something that I remember even early
45:41on I don't really want to stay with
45:42other people that sounds weird like I
45:45don't want to get in someone else's car
45:46like that's shady but then all sudden
45:50like you know the word just kind of gets
45:52around you try it once enough people try
45:54it once they really enjoy the experience
45:55word gets around once it does that's
45:57that that's that sort of that Big Bang
45:59moment right where the markets kind of
46:01created and then at that point your
46:03problems are completely different at
46:04that point you don't need to convince
46:05anyone anymore because people just think
46:07it's going to be inevitable but then
46:08your problems are more about scaling and
46:10you know continuing to find refine the
46:13product at that point
46:16can we talk about your key KPI is doing
46:19that 18 months off period what we're
46:23measuring to make sure that you are
46:24moving the right brake yeah so the
46:26question is on the key kpi's during that
46:30the the the sad answer is we were not
46:34monitoring them we were not measuring
46:35them that's probably why it took us 18
46:37months it probably could have been a lot
46:38shorter I think we were looking at sign
46:40ups which was kind of the thing that
46:41most people were looking at at that
46:43point in time and it's a very poor
46:45metric I think if you look at how our
46:48science would convert to active users
46:49that was very low if you would look at
46:52how our signups were trending sort of on
46:55a daily and weekly basis that was
46:56trending down so by all accounts we
46:58didn't have product market fit and we
46:59knew we didn't have product market fit
47:01it wasn't like a big surprise so so it's
47:04really just a matter of continue to
47:05iterate continue to iterate until you
47:07finally get something that that clicks
47:16sure so the question is I'm pricing
47:18what's a journey we went through I think
47:19people are a lot more rational about
47:21pricing today than when we got started
47:23because in in 2007 and 2008 the
47:27prevailing thinking in Silicon Valley
47:29was that you shouldn't actively not
47:32charge money you should actively be not
47:34making money that was the prevailing
47:35thinking it sounds really really crazy
47:38now but at the time the logic went that
47:41Twitter was the example that if you
47:43charged money then you would have
47:46revenues and once you had revenues they
47:48wouldn't be that big and then you just
47:50be valued on a multiple your revenues so
47:52way better to sell the dream and not
47:54show any revenues than to make money and
47:57then have your valuation come down so
47:59that's what people thought at the time
48:00and we we start up by not charging any
48:04money so it's just completely free from
48:07basically women launched in 2006 through
48:09the summer of 2008 we I'm not even
48:14kidding we had people who would just
48:15unsolicited just mail to check for
48:17cuz they were like you're gonna run out
48:19of money like you need I just gonna give
48:21you money and like and and we're like
48:25thanks but like it was a completely free
48:29product there's no way to
48:30money unless you mail us a check and and
48:33then we knew we're gonna run out of
48:35money from the round that we raised in
48:37around September of 2009 in G sorry
48:42September 2008 in January of 2008 we
48:44decided to try to make money because we
48:46figured making money was much cooler
48:47than raising another round so we worked
48:51for 6 months from January to June on on
48:54launching Weebly Pro which was the first
48:56version was four dollars a month it was
48:57the first version that you could pay us
48:58any money for we had all of our friends
49:00over in our in our apartment the night
49:02before we launched it and we all took
49:04bets on clearly how many millions of
49:06dollars we're going to be making the
49:07next day like it was like as soon as we
49:09pressed that button it was just gonna
49:10come flown in and and then we launched
49:13it the next day and then after a week we
49:15looked at the sales and it turns out
49:17that we made 10 times less than the
49:18lowest bet so it was like okay I guess
49:23it's not going to work out quite that
49:24well that fast but then we you know we
49:27kept iterating we kept growing from June
49:29of 2008 to December we almost ran out of
49:33but but had the option of cutting the
49:36founders salaries and so we're going
49:37we're going to be cashflow positive we
49:39basically became cashflow positive in
49:40January 2009 more or less we're through
49:43the rest of history of the company
50:04actually use it for three weeks tops
50:09so in that case how would you actually
50:12acted because yeah so the questions it's
50:20awesome that your Weebly user sort of
50:22how do you calculate active usage when
50:23people flake off I think you can still
50:24calculate the same way and I think it's
50:26so valuable metrics so there's a
50:28question with with with talking to
50:31inside baseball with website builders of
50:33are they successfully using your product
50:34even if they're not coming back every
50:35single day and maybe they come back once
50:37every six months I still think it's
50:38useful to look at the metric because
50:41because otherwise you're just flying
51:02yeah so so the questions around the the
51:06just the the word discontinuous
51:08improvement and like what does that mean
51:09and a lot of the writings about
51:11continuous improvement I think
51:13discontinuous improvement is is
51:15effectively when you're making a big
51:17leap not and and sometimes small
51:20incremental improvements don't get you
51:21to that big leap right and so I think
51:23you know imagine yourself starting with
51:25the palm treo right and you're trying to
51:27make continuous improvement right like
51:29what would you do like you'd improve the
51:31OS a little bit maybe you'd improve you
51:33know the way the apps can exist a little
51:34bit maybe you would take that keyboard
51:36and just like make the you know clicking
51:39a little bit better or the typing little
51:40bit better whatever it is but I think by
51:43definition if you're going to create a
51:44new market oftentimes it's discontinuous
51:46improvement and what that means is is
51:48taking a really big leap and taking a
51:49really big leap it doesn't often happen
51:51the same way as taking small steps and
51:53so I think you know again it's it's it's
51:55really about fighting that hidden need
51:58figuring out what people want and
52:00building that solution iterating really
52:04quickly on that front but optimizing for
52:06learning and I think optimizing for
52:08learning is sort of the key here where
52:09you say what's the biggest unknown that
52:11I have and how do I go about answering
52:13that question okay two more questions so
52:18how do you deal with a demographic split
52:22between purchasers and users like we're
52:25a hardware company and our primary
52:28purchasers are probably going to be Gen
52:30X they want an analog version because
52:34they believe it's more reliable and the
52:37primary users of the product will be
52:39Millennials and they all want touch
52:40screens which actually works better for
52:42us and so how do you deal with you know
52:46convincing people later on hey in the
52:48tech roadmap we'd actually like to even
52:51you know maybe your old equipment back
52:53and we'll just give you a new one yeah
52:55so the question is hardware startup your
52:58purchasers and your users are different
53:00demographics and and they want different
53:02things yeah how do you make the
53:09transition smooth I mean I think I I
53:11don't have that much information
53:13I'm guessing education oh what coffee
53:18okay then I have no idea but I but if
53:23you want to come talk to me afterwards
53:24we could dig into it a little bit more
53:25oh yeah yeah that's a great question so
53:40on your way to product market fit when
53:42do you start the whole fundraising
53:42process I think so so I think the most
53:48helpful thing to me that I end up
53:50explaining to a lot of people is look at
53:51that slide on the stages of a company
53:53and most companies will not be able to
53:57raise money until they're at the early
53:59traction phase just entering traction
54:01now things may be different for you you
54:03may have some friends and family who may
54:05be able to kind of stake you early on
54:07you may get in a program like Y
54:10Combinator you you may be different
54:13that's certainly possible but most
54:15companies like when you look at those
54:16large early rounds that are raised and
54:18this company raised 40 million dollars
54:20that launching a product and you're like
54:23you can't that that's what I thought it
54:26turns out that in all those cases are
54:28some kind of history it's you know the
54:30the founder or founders of that company
54:32have cred massively successful products
54:33before or maybe they're huge you know
54:35coming in some some part of the industry
54:37or whatever it is I think if your
54:40expectation is that you can trace it
54:42around until you get to early traction
54:43that's probably a realistic expectation
54:45and then at that point sort of what are
54:48the implications of that right so how
54:49the hell do you get to early traction
54:52without raising money right it's a
54:54chicken it's sort of this chicken and
54:56everyone solves it differently right
54:58like everyone wanted up solving it
54:59differently it's really really hard
55:00though and I think the key the way that
55:02a lot of people solve it is just you
55:04know effectively sweat
55:05it's just getting a few really smart
55:06people together who can build what they
55:08need to build without anyone else
55:09without outsourcing without hiring
55:11anyone else and keeping their burn
55:13really really low and basically locking
55:15themselves in a room and and continue to
55:17just build as quickly as they can until
55:19until they get to that point and it
55:21looks like you have a follow-up no no so
55:33so the question is lon launch when you
55:35have something is better than what's out
55:36there which which means a full-blown
55:38product no I I think you know maybe this
55:42is something I could add in here don't
55:44don't look at your product in terms of
55:45like a feature grid like a feature
55:47checklist if you think about it like
55:48that you can never win because you're
55:50behind and you can never catch up and
55:52especially if you're comparing to like I
55:55like this phrase of like customers over
55:58competitors because if you're looking
55:59what your competitors are doing right
56:01then you're inherently following because
56:04whatever they've just launched they
56:06started building three months ago right
56:08and so by the time you build that and
56:09you launch that then they're gonna be
56:11launching the new thing and it could be
56:12you know I remember one of our
56:13competitors I won't name them but but
56:17but they're from South Africa and they
56:19had raised 40 million bucks and we had
56:22raised six hundred fifty K and they
56:25things we're not going that great for
56:27them and so they completely ripped off
56:28our interface and they just completely
56:30cloned it and launched it and I was like
56:33we were laughing our asses off because
56:35we were about to launch an update where
56:37at the time that sidebar with the
56:39elements was on top and we were out to
56:40put it on we were about to put it on the
56:41left right we'd spent a lot of time
56:43building that and they launched like two
56:44weeks before we built it right and so I
56:47think you have to focus on your
56:49customers not your competitors and then
56:51it's not about to feature grit because
56:52there's gonna be one particular feature
56:54or one aspect of your product maybe it's
56:56the the ease of use and the usability
56:58that opens it up to a new market maybe
57:00it's one feature that people are just
57:02killing for that's gonna that's going to
57:04make up for the lack of the rest and so
57:07people are going to look at that and say
57:08well it doesn't have XYZ which I do kind
57:12of want in those other products do but
57:13this is the one thing that I need and
57:15they're gonna come and use your product
57:17for that so it's not that
57:18your product has more features than
57:20anyone else is that your product does
57:21that one thing that one job they're
57:23trying to it does that better than
57:24anyone else thanks guys
57:33that concludes today sorry that we ran a
57:36little late it's hard to constrain
57:39fantastic speakers from getting through
57:41their material and all the great
57:42questions you guys are asking next week
57:45Swee aldo she and Gustav Ostrom are from
57:49Mixpanel and Y Combinator respectively
57:51we will continue on our dive into
57:54product talking about measurement and
57:56growth two very important things and
57:58we'll also be posting another video of a
58:02conversation this week that adora is
58:04going to have with us Magog the founder
58:07of gobble and they like the bee gees are
58:10going to be talking about staying alive
58:11if anyone gets that reference all right
![How To Succeed As A NEW & YOUNG Realtor [Deals Every Month + Luxury Listings]](/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FrtrRghgTayc%2Fhqdefault.jpg&w=3840&q=75)
