00:00 how much of like the hard interesting
00:03 stuff Apple did is with the hardware in
00:04 The Vision Pro versus the software well
00:06 you need to understand the real world in
00:08 order to augment it technology of a
00:10 self-driving car but on a headset this
00:13 is maybe where Founders should sort of
00:14 pay attention is this a good opportunity
00:16 for startups there's all kinds of new
00:18 interactions that I think we have not
00:20 figured out yet what really truly takes
00:22 advantage of this platform the dream has
00:26 always been to get to something like
00:37 welcome back to another episode of the
00:39 light cone and as you can see it's not
00:42 just any other day in tech there are
00:44 some new platforms that are coming up
00:47 right now you might have seen other
00:49 places where there are reviews we're not
00:50 doing reviews today we're going to talk
00:53 about what these platforms might mean
00:55 for Founders and people who want to
00:57 build things for a billion people we
00:59 actually have an expert at the table
01:02 right now don't we we do Diana who's a
01:05 group partner at YC before she worked at
01:08 YC she's been working in AR and VR for
01:12 10 years since the dawn of the Oculus
01:14 before VR was a mainstream thing in fact
01:17 her grad school research was in computer
01:19 vision so she's been interested in this
01:22 from way before it was a thing other
01:24 people were following Diana do you want
01:26 to talk about your startup that you did
01:28 which was an arv our startup a really
01:30 early pioneering one yeah we went
01:33 through YC with a startup called Asher
01:35 reality what we were building was a
01:38 augmented reality SDK for game
01:41 developers so that they could build
01:43 multiplayer experiences and AR games and
01:46 build the code once so that it would
01:49 work on any platform so between not just
01:52 IOS and Android mobile device but the
01:55 dream has always been to get to
01:58 something like this or that or that so
02:01 that developers would write the code
02:02 once and work across all devices and
02:05 what happened to your startup so what
02:07 happened is this took a lot longer to
02:10 come to Market that's one thing the
02:13 other thing that ended up happening we
02:14 ended up getting acquired by Niantic the
02:17 makers of Pokemon go so I ended up
02:20 heading a lot of the AR platform over
02:22 there at Pokemon with Niantic and we Shi
02:25 actually a lot of this AR SDK into a lot
02:29 of games so so millions of players are
02:31 running our code which is really cool so
02:33 if you've ever played Pokémon go you've
02:35 literally used code that Diana wrote and
02:38 I'm so excited with this platform coming
02:40 in and we can go dive deeper into it
02:44 okay should we take the headsets off so
02:45 we can we can talk yeah let's
02:49 go so it's been a long road you've seen
02:53 technology basically evolve over the
02:57 decade what's you know why AR like
03:00 that's one of the big things here you
03:02 know previous platforms may be really
03:04 focused on VR and the gaming aspect uh
03:07 Hollow lens from Microsoft seem to try
03:10 to do the AR thing what's going on with
03:13 uh the Apple Vision Pro you know why is
03:16 this important why are we talking about
03:18 this yeah I mean we have to go even back
03:22 in the history of computing actually the
03:25 attempts of building augment the reality
03:27 and VR headsets have been actually since
03:29 the beginning of the first computer
03:31 actually the very first one was by this
03:33 guy called Ivan southernland back in the
03:35 60s so people have been thinking about
03:37 it it's kind of the one of the dreams
03:40 and it's one of those things that really
03:41 fascinated me I think it's so much of it
03:44 is in our Consciousness that we want to
03:46 make it really happen but the challenge
03:49 why it has not happened unlike tablets
03:53 phones is that it's just really really
03:56 hard to make so you bring up the
03:58 Microsoft Hol lens they had version one
04:00 and version two and sadly the latest
04:03 version got scoped down or the team kind
04:05 of got let go because they
04:08 tried a optical approach so the AR
04:12 approach was the ACT they were seeing
04:13 actually the real world and then the
04:16 digital content would be rendered just
04:19 with uh within the eyes and it had a
04:21 very little field of view it was
04:23 actually the same approach that magic
04:25 leap was trying and what apple is trying
04:29 is actually more of a pass through which
04:31 is actually more of a full high-risk
04:34 video feed of the real world and
04:36 arguably a lot of the technical
04:38 challenges are a lot easier and the hard
04:41 part of Optics is that is not a problem
04:44 of more law and just like forcing with
04:48 more computation more pixels it is
04:51 actually figuring out new physics and
04:54 photons so that they render properly to
04:56 the human eye because the human eye is
04:59 actually very very incredible your field
05:01 of view is actually 210° so you put your
05:04 hands behind your ears you can kind of
05:07 them and to have a display system that
05:11 can really render all of that is so hard
05:14 and the other part that's really hard
05:16 which I want to touch upon a bit more is
05:18 our eyes incredible at doing infinite
05:22 ability to focus so we can look close
05:25 here or very far and in some senses you
05:29 have to find a way to make that discrete
05:32 for computers to work right because
05:34 computers just understand ones and zeros
05:36 and to get that working in a display is
05:38 just so hard and the Apple has done some
05:41 clever things with that that's different
05:42 to the optical approach um because the
05:45 optical approach is what like it's
05:47 actually looking through to the real
05:49 world or it's how what's the difference
05:51 yeah so if I'm looking at Jared right
05:53 now I'm actually seeing Jared and if I
05:55 overlay a digital digital information in
05:58 the optical system I would only overlay
06:00 the digital information and here for the
06:05 Vision Pro and what the meta Quest 3 or
06:07 meta Quest Pro or The Vision Pro
06:09 technically VR headset the full video is
06:12 All Digital like Jared is technical
06:15 technically pixels when I see him
06:17 through the Vision Pro and so you said
06:19 like the Apple Vision Pro being a video
06:21 feed actually reduces a technical
06:23 challenge yeah because I think uh
06:26 there's a couple things you could do you
06:27 can play a lot with the video feed and
06:31 one of the cool things if you're really
06:33 best in the world with display
06:35 technology what apple is you can get
06:38 away a lot with it and one of the cool
06:40 things they've done and foundations of
06:42 what they build which is actually
06:43 helpful if you're going to build apps
06:45 here so much of it is built upon eye
06:47 tracking so they actually have a
06:49 variable rendering for Focus so they had
06:53 to get the eye tracking to be working so
06:55 well for this to work so in the Vision
06:57 Pro wherever you look the pixel density
06:59 of your focal point will render more
07:02 High Fidelity than where it's not and
07:05 the reason why this is important is
07:07 because to fit it in such a small form
07:09 factor and not to burn and there's so
07:11 much heat dissipation to push so much
07:13 pixels and Battery you have to do
07:15 trade-offs so they did this thing of um
07:19 rendering more High rest where your eye
07:23 focuses so you can notice a little bit
07:26 in the periphery with the Vision Pro
07:27 where it's more blurry or a little bit
07:30 it's it's not like quite pixelated but
07:32 blurry and some of the people do
07:34 complain online with the FIA view I mean
07:37 that's I think a bit of the artifact
07:38 with the with the lens but that's like a
07:40 different discussion that's so how much
07:42 of like the hard interesting stuff Apple
07:45 did is with the hardware in The Vision
07:46 Pro versus the software I think the cool
07:49 thing about them is uh is both because
07:51 the Vision Pro is sort of a culmination
07:53 of a lot of the ecosystem of what
07:58 expertise they built in iPhone phone
07:59 like they have custom silicon they have
08:02 the R1 processor which is a co-processor
08:06 to the M2 the M2 is basically uh the
08:08 same processor that runs on the MacBook
08:11 Pro so very beefy but that processor M2
08:14 is for regular kind of like a CPU
08:16 regular workload but the challenge for
08:19 um building an AR headset or ar in
08:21 general you need to understand the real
08:23 world in order to augment it and for
08:26 that you need a lot of sensors so this
08:29 has over 10 cameras even has a lighter
08:33 it has a true dep camera it has a bunch
08:35 of ir cameras inside to track your eyes
08:38 so that's a lot of data a lot of high
08:40 data bandwidth that it needs to process
08:43 and underneath the hardware I think this
08:46 um you're going to get throughput
08:51 blocked so the R1 is a custom processor
08:54 that process all of the sensor data with
08:56 very high data Channel bandwidth and and
08:59 I suspect they are even running a
09:01 realtime operating system along the
09:03 vision OS which is kind of interesting
09:05 for what it means for developers to
09:07 process all of this in real time and
09:09 it's starting to sound a lot like
09:12 actually a technology of a self-driving
09:14 car but on a headset yeah that's exactly
09:17 as you were talking about what this is
09:19 that like Springs to mind like lar plus
09:21 a bunch of cameras and processing the
09:23 video feed yeah can you draw the
09:25 connection like it's probably not
09:26 obvious to people what the connection is
09:27 between like VR AR and self driving cars
09:30 yeah actually this this was one of the
09:32 jokes with my co-founder when we started
09:34 aser reality with the coort tech for
09:36 localizing in the world and knowing
09:38 where you are it comes from the world of
09:40 um in robotics called slam simultaneous
09:43 localization of mapping so you want to
09:45 find where a robot is in the world based
09:47 on just visual data and uh that is the
09:50 same thing that cell driving cars look
09:52 to navigate where they are in the 3D
09:54 World so you notice in that car there's
09:56 3D lighters there's r Radars there's a
09:59 bunch of cameras same thing here to know
10:02 where you are in the world so it's the
10:05 challenges but with so much more
10:08 Hardware complexity because you don't
10:10 want to burn people's
10:13 head uh with this imagine because the
10:16 the self driving car uh with self
10:18 driving cars you can actually the actual
10:20 Hardware that runs in self driving car
10:21 processing they put server grade gpus
10:25 and CPUs which fits in like the trunk or
10:27 underneath but this is actually pretty
10:30 cool what they' done and they built a
10:32 lot of that because on iPhone they
10:35 learned how to build custom processors
10:37 they built the uh with the true face
10:41 true 3D on the camera which is like IR
10:44 for mapping 3D and lighter they added on
10:48 the latest one latest uh iPads and
10:50 they've been building a lot of the
10:51 ecosystem one by one yeah it's
10:52 interesting here you talk about how
10:53 Apple can build on their previous
10:55 product so it's like you're saying this
10:56 is sort of a lot of the technology here
10:58 is coming out of the iPhone this sounds
11:00 like this sets them up to build their
11:02 car like um pretty well same expertise
11:06 let's talk about the use cases a little
11:08 bit I mean one of the things that's
11:09 pretty clear in um everything about the
11:13 launch of this is It's focused on
11:15 productivity and I kind of like it
11:17 because you know when you're talking
11:19 about these Oculus devices they're much
11:21 more focused on gaming on VR where
11:23 you're sort of in a totally different
11:25 place whereas you know my guess is one
11:29 of the reasons why VR AR hadn't been
11:31 embraced is that it wasn't something
11:33 that a busy person uh would use every
11:36 single day but now you know it's got the
11:38 M2 it's the same chip that I have in my
11:41 MacBook Air I can actually with a
11:43 keyboard do all of my work all day if I
11:46 wanted to and that's a really big
11:49 difference in how they're positioning
11:51 this device which is a big departure
11:53 from Meta Meta is so much on the gaming
11:57 community and actually there was a I
11:59 think this's a bit of an uproar from the
12:00 VR community that there's no
12:02 controllers and Apple has really focused
12:06 full on on productivity which I think if
12:09 this was my dream when we started eer
12:11 that if AR was going to happen we're not
12:14 going to notice it because it's going to
12:16 solve all the very mundane things and it
12:19 could replace all screens I think if'
12:21 done well this is going after the market
12:24 cap of all screens that get sold if done
12:26 well I mean there's still a lot of
12:28 things to be done this is still B zero
12:31 but yeah but this this motion like this
12:33 was incredibly natural and being able to
12:36 look look at things and have it be
12:38 something that you interact with I was
12:40 just blown away at how simple how easy
12:43 that was to reprogram my brain which is
12:45 cool I think there's half I remember I
12:47 guess a question for you Gary do you
12:48 remember when the iPhone came out Apple
12:52 had this human interface guideline MH
12:55 yeah they had a lot of things about
12:56 communication communicating information
12:58 hierarchy with touch and focus and
13:01 gestures with your thumb and things like
13:03 that yeah it was an incredibly
13:04 comprehensive document they basically
13:06 took all of the learnings that they
13:08 had gotten building the iPhone for years
13:11 and they distilled it into a really
13:13 thorough document then they publish it
13:14 for everyone I think it taught a whole
13:16 generation of designers and developers
13:18 how to build great mobile apps they
13:19 would just read that document there is a
13:21 human interface guideline for the Vision
13:24 Pro and uh one of the things you notice
13:27 is so much of it is is about ey tracking
13:30 and communicating communicating
13:34 information with depth and
13:36 space and I think what brings maybe this
13:39 is actually something for Founders to
13:41 think about if you're building an app in
13:42 the space is that with the Vision Pro
13:46 they invested so much on eye tracking to
13:48 make it work for so many reasons I mean
13:49 we talked about to get just the
13:51 rendering to work that was a building
13:53 block but for the ux I think it is the
13:56 moment that we're seeing with Capac
13:58 positive Touch where Apple got it right
14:00 for the iPhone the ey tracking is
14:03 starting to look a lot like that so I
14:05 think there's a lot of cool
14:07 ux things are yet to be discovered with
14:10 just ey tracking and the funny thing is
14:16 Community I think it was very skeptical
14:18 of this because actually it was actually
14:20 a bad practice to do ey tracking because
14:22 it tires the user too much and the
14:24 reason is because it Hardware was not
14:26 good enough I remember the same thing
14:28 before the iPhone came out I remember
14:29 like lots of the conventional wisdom
14:31 from consultants and experts was that
14:33 the virtual keyboard wouldn't work that
14:35 people wanted like a physical keyboard
14:37 and that just it wouldn't like people
14:38 would never treat it as like a serious
14:40 device to do their email on because it
14:41 didn't have a real keyboard on the phone
14:43 yeah oh yeah yeah yeah that was all the
14:45 reviews of the iPhone yeah yeah but
14:48 there were I mean this is maybe where
14:49 Founders should sort of pay attention
14:51 there were still things that apple had
14:54 not figured out yet that uh thirdparty
14:56 developers ended up figuring out so if
14:58 you remember uh the pull down to refresh
15:01 that was something that I think was in a
15:02 Twitter client and um you know that I
15:05 think that founder ended up selling
15:07 their Twitter client to Twitter and
15:08 working at Twitter for a while but there
15:11 there's all kinds of new interactions
15:13 that I think we have not figured out yet
15:15 like the sort of like pinch to move
15:17 around is merely the first of a whole
15:19 bunch of different things that frankly
15:21 end user develop you sort developers
15:24 will actually figure out I think I'm
15:26 curious also di um what's what's the
15:28 difference for a developer between the
15:30 meta SDK and the Apple Vision Pro
15:34 SDK uh one of the big ones is meta comes
15:39 from the DNA of gaming so they have very
15:41 good support for Unity and unreal and
15:43 those are game engines which are cool to
15:44 build for games 3D environments in a
15:47 game which are L literally more like a
15:50 constrained 3D world but for spatial or
15:56 computation the real world is in infite
15:59 so sometimes game engines don't quite
16:01 fit and one one of the things you'll
16:04 notice um to build an application that
16:08 PDF for The Meta for The Meta platform
16:13 it actually takes a lot of lines of code
16:15 huh whereas to build that for the vision
16:19 OS is actually just few lines of code
16:21 interesting I guess the other big
16:22 question uh that probably a lot of
16:25 people in the community have is this a
16:28 iPhone moment or a Newton
16:31 moment well when the iPhone first
16:33 launched there wasn't actually an app
16:34 store right so I think that came maybe a
16:36 year later something like that all of
16:38 the initial apps that got Distribution
16:39 on the App Store were like frivolous
16:42 apps right it's like the fart app
16:44 like a bunch of things that were getting
16:46 really popular the $2,000 I am rich app
16:49 which is like a image of a ruby or
16:51 something yeah oh my God and if you
16:52 think about from our like at least the
16:54 YC perspective the iPhone or mobile
16:57 didn't start start driving really big
17:00 companies being started until I would
17:02 say probably like 2012 like 2012 is the
17:05 year where we had instacart come through
17:07 I actually think mobile was a a fairly
17:09 big component of coinbase right like
17:10 they the fact that they just had a easy
17:12 to use mobile app um door Dash was 2013
17:15 and so all of these things start and you
17:17 course you had the rise of uber not YC
17:19 company but it took so you could say 5
17:22 Years From the launch of the iPhone for
17:25 for the actual good companies to even be
17:29 right and so yeah so you haven't missed
17:31 it yet yeah well I don't when I'm when I
17:34 think about the Vision Pro I'm not sure
17:36 if we're at like is this the iPhone
17:38 moment in the sense of the iPhone just
17:40 got launched and um like it's still
17:44 going to be a few years or is this like
17:47 hey actually like this is this device
17:49 has been around for a while this is just
17:52 like the iteration that was needed on it
17:55 to unlock like the insta carts and door
17:58 dashes and Ubers that are going to be
17:59 built on it I'll give one argument for
18:01 why it's probably more like the iPhone
18:03 moment we don't know but um you know
18:06 when the iPhone came out like people
18:08 forget smartphones were already an
18:10 established category and the iPhone was
18:13 like the new entrant to this like
18:14 established C A lot of people were
18:16 skeptical that Apple could actually
18:17 execute as you and as you mentioned were
18:20 very skeptical of the iPhone as a as a
18:22 as as the right product to challenge the
18:24 Blackberry and the other like incumbent
18:26 Smartphones at the time famous Steve bom
18:28 quote about I think there's like Steve
18:30 Bama just you know making fun of it and
18:31 saying it would never be a serious
18:33 device right right right um why was it
18:35 that it took like five years for the
18:37 good iPhone companies to come out I
18:39 think adoption had to happen so that's
18:42 why it actually Maps very closely I mean
18:44 I don't know how many Apple actually
18:45 sold but it's probably on the order of
18:47 hundred hundreds of thousands right so
18:50 which probably mirrors the iPhone maybe
18:52 the iPhone you know broke a million even
18:55 uh when you look back to the instacart
18:57 or door Dash or Uber moment these mobile
18:59 workforces could only happen at the
19:02 moment that 70 to 80% of the people in
19:04 society had these devices and the reason
19:07 why that was such an important moment
19:09 was that was the first time normal
19:11 average people had always on internet
19:13 connectivity and uh an app ecosystem
19:17 that was actually stable enough you know
19:19 remember back you know the sort of 10
19:21 years before it was like j2me or do we
19:23 write it in Flash you know Gustaf and
19:28 and hyan experience you know the
19:30 platforms were literally so broken and
19:33 so fragmented that you couldn't have 80%
19:37 of the population on one platform and
19:39 then suddenly all of the platforms sort
19:41 of coalesced and then it opened up the
19:44 market I guess a question with this
19:45 device uh and in general with VR it will
19:49 be different than mobile it won't be a
19:52 type of device perhaps I mean it depends
19:54 on the price point when it gets to maybe
19:57 phone cost perh perhaps but it will take
19:59 a a lot of time before we get that level
20:02 of mass adoption but I think what could
20:04 happen is it will capture a lot of the
20:07 kind of high-end use with what we talked
20:10 about earlier with high information
20:12 density construction cat engineering
20:17 workflows so Diana and I were actually
20:20 doing group office hours yesterday with
20:22 um a group of our companies in this
20:24 current Batch who are all working of
20:25 Hardware hard tech ideas um and we did
20:28 this exercise we call it the premortem
20:30 where um you sort of give them different
20:34 flavors of how companies can die spec
20:37 and you get them to say this is like how
20:40 I think I'm most likely to die right and
20:42 like the one I'm coming up the thing
20:44 that Springs to mind here is we were
20:46 talking about how um Tesla strategy was
20:49 very successful to launch the Roadster
20:51 like a very highend device and then you
20:53 bring out like the model S and the model
20:55 3 and the model y um but like that
20:58 wouldn't have worked if they just stuck
21:00 with the Roadster right and so maybe one
21:03 failure mode for the Vision Pro is like
21:05 this is the Tesla Roadster it's great it
21:07 carves out like a niche for people who
21:10 are really into this stuff and are
21:11 willing to pay like for a very highend
21:13 device but it can't follow it up with
21:15 like the model three and I think there a
21:18 bit of a chicken and egg aspect with it
21:20 because for this to be relevant to
21:22 become the model 3 let's say we need a
21:26 ecosystem of applications and and
21:28 incentive for developers to work on it
21:31 because if I were a Founder right now
21:33 and I'm looking for a new idea do what
21:35 do I want to put all my eggs on here
21:37 when there's not enough user yet when
21:39 should I do it should I just take a leap
21:40 of faith on how do we advise Founders
21:44 when they're in this space like why
21:47 should they do it I definitely think
21:48 that's relevant to like the instacart
21:50 door Dash thing for example if you think
21:51 about it like those companies weren't
21:53 making a bet like their apps were not
21:55 specific to iOS or apple right like like
21:58 like everybody had a device they worked
22:00 equally well on like Android they
22:01 frankly they could have just been a web
22:02 view stuffed like in an app right and so
22:06 that's a good point that's and they also
22:08 weren't the first entrance in their
22:09 categories like before door Dash and
22:10 instacart there were many would have
22:12 like would be door Dash and instacart
22:15 players that launched earlier that
22:16 actually didn't succeed yeah well even
22:18 more extreme like they the in their case
22:21 mobile actually made ideas that seemed
22:23 very bad like good ones I I actually
22:26 think it's really cool that sequire
22:28 invested in instacart because they'd had
22:30 the big failure with like webban and so
22:32 they had all this egg on their face with
22:34 like grocery delivery is this bad idea
22:36 that like um you would expect it's very
22:39 natural to never want to fund that again
22:41 but like mobile actually turned that
22:42 into a good idea I did a dinner talk
22:45 with the with Max the co-founder of
22:47 instacart and he said that when seoa led
22:49 the series a for instacart they gave him
22:52 the web fan business plan that they had
22:54 been given in the 9s but the problem was
22:57 it was on a floppy disc and he couldn't
22:59 find a floppy disc reader so he never
23:04 hilarious uh I'm sort of taken by even
23:07 the path of um consumer social networks
23:10 you know Facebook started as the Blue
23:12 app you know it was a desktop experience
23:15 killing Myspace it sort of looked like
23:18 uh literally Bank software like if you
23:20 logged into Facebook or you know
23:21 chase.com it even had the same color and
23:25 um they I I remember being at YC when
23:29 Mark Zuckerberg came to talk about why
23:31 they bought Oculus and it was actually
23:34 very much from what I could tell um
23:37 trying to fight the last war that uh
23:40 Facebook had just bought Instagram I
23:42 think it had not bought WhatsApp yet um
23:46 and they felt he felt really scared like
23:49 that basically Facebook had this
23:52 Monopoly it had like owned the industry
23:54 of uh you know consumer social but but
23:58 then they almost lost it because
23:59 Instagram you know easily could have
24:01 outstripped it and um that was because
24:04 of a platform shift and so he wanted to
24:08 you know very clearly own the next
24:10 platform and he's right should Founders
24:13 go build on this is this a good
24:15 opportunity for startups I just sort of
24:17 wonder what are the things that could
24:19 actually fully take advantage of this in
24:22 um a real sort of professional context I
24:25 mean where my head goes maybe it's too
24:27 obvious but Traders with their like sort
24:30 of 20 screens you know wouldn't you
24:32 rather have something that allowed you
24:34 to take in the breadth of that
24:36 information and dive into it very easily
24:39 just by going like that you you can
24:41 imagine that being something that people
24:43 are actually willing to pay not just you
24:44 know hundreds of dollars a month but
24:46 maybe thousands of dollars a month for I
24:48 think we're going to be in uh quite some
24:51 time at the beginning in this awkward pH
24:54 with spatial Computing type of apps
24:56 because even with uh the Apple SDK and
24:59 meta a lot of things are still flat
25:03 2D and I don't think we know how to
25:05 develop for develop for full 3d what
25:08 really truly takes advantage of this
25:11 platform what is unique about this
25:13 platform whether it's you know 360
25:15 degree view being able to dive into more
25:18 data easily like what are aspects of
25:21 this new technology that mean that it
25:23 can upend even what seems like an
25:26 unassailable incumbent like you know
25:29 Snapchat versus Facebook but would part
25:31 of you try and talk them out of it like
25:33 would part of you be thinking this is
25:35 too early you should work on something
25:37 else and not I think if you look back in
25:40 our history YC has weirdly been pretty
25:42 good at this where every time there's a
25:44 platform shift whether it's like the
25:45 Facebook thing which didn't go anywhere
25:46 or the iOS thing which did go go places
25:49 we were reasonably accurate actually
25:51 funding the right stuff and I think the
25:53 way that we did it is rather than having
25:56 a strong thesis on on each technology
25:58 and each platform we just kind of look
26:00 at each application from first
26:01 principles and we talk to the founders
26:03 and they have some idea we just try to
26:04 figure out if the idea makes sense I
26:06 think that's what allows us to have had
26:08 a pretty good track record of
26:09 discriminating people who are just like
26:11 cargo culting the new thing and just
26:13 like jumping on the hype train and have
26:15 some idea that doesn't really make sense
26:16 from the people who are building
26:17 something like door Dash that actually
26:19 like totally makes sense yeah it's fine
26:23 I I mean the other thing that I would
26:24 look at to Jared's point is actually
26:27 there's a strong belief from the founder
26:30 that they want to make a bet in the
26:32 space I think there's just something
26:34 about Founders where they go all in they
26:37 become Unstoppable and it's going to
26:39 take time so they have to have the faith
26:41 that this is going to be different than
26:43 building let's say a standard SAS
26:45 application or consumer app or AI
26:47 application let's say if you stick long
26:50 enough you're going to build a lot of
26:52 expertise and be World Class by the time
26:55 is the right moment but someone that's
26:57 genuinely excited about it and the cool
27:00 thing about it there's a lot of
27:01 technical challenge with it which I
27:02 think is going to attract the right kind
27:03 of Founders because it's actually hard
27:05 to build something good on this right
27:07 now because it's so new so this will be
27:09 the main thing I'll look for when I'm
27:10 reading applications for people putting
27:12 VR stuff actually and I feel okay
27:13 sharing it because it's very hard to
27:14 fake it's basically what we're saying is
27:17 if you're the kind of person that just
27:18 is irrationally compelled to build
27:21 applications for VR we will happily fund
27:23 you and like we need some evidence of
27:26 that just like you just like your SP in
27:28 your free time you are like building VR
27:30 apps and you have been for a while like
27:32 yeah we would never try and discourage
27:34 Founders from building stuff they just
27:35 think is cool well that's a great place
27:37 to end we're out of time but thank you
27:40 guys another good episode of the light
27:43 cone guys see you next time catch you
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