00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:03Copeland I'm here today with Jim Gilliam
00:05who is the founder of nation builder all
00:08the way from Los Angeles downtown Los
00:10Angeles all right representing Jim you
00:13guys we just spent a day and in
00:15particularly you spent a day talking
00:17about community and you said one thing
00:18you made this statement that community
00:21is everything it's the whole thing what
00:24did you mean went by that and and like
00:26how did you get to that conclusion yeah
00:28so nation builder is you know helps
00:31people build community help people
00:32organize communities and it's the it's
00:35you know it's software to do that and so
00:36but you know we've spent a fair amount
00:37of time understanding kind of what that
00:40really is including how that applies to
00:43our company itself so like I go back you
00:48know years is we know why we started the
00:50company and there's sort of a lot of
00:53elements of community I am
00:54we made documentary films and we
00:56organize people around the film's
00:58because we couldn't like sell them to a
00:59studio or anything we did that 10 years
01:01ago and that was community organizing
01:03right and I you know I needed the double
01:06lung transplant we organized community
01:07to kind of help me do that
01:09political campaigns the Obama campaign
01:12so all this was community organizing and
01:14and so for you I mean community was a
01:15sort of tools the wrong world but it was
01:18a mechanism to help you get things done
01:19and they a wide variety of things from
01:22you know lungs to politics to you name
01:26it right yeah and so the the genesis and
01:28the idea of nationhood was that you know
01:29that should be that power should be
01:31available to everybody right there was
01:33this sort of widening gap this widening
01:34digital divide that was happening where
01:37the folks who had a lot of resources
01:38could organize because they could hack
01:40together all these different tools you
01:42know everything from donation processing
01:43to really not marketing and stuff like
01:45that but that really should be available
01:48to everybody should be affordable should
01:49be accessible so here's something I
01:52found fastened and like you know on the
01:54one hand there is people who would say
01:56that you know what what technologists
01:58build kind of has destroyed some of the
02:03fabric of community and on the other
02:05hand the community is stronger and more
02:07diverse and more kind of extensible than
02:10ever so what is and how
02:13community changed because ever since
02:15there's been people there's been
02:16community right yeah so it used to be
02:18the community was very sort of physical
02:19had it be in physical proximity to folks
02:22and that was the only way the community
02:23could really exist and with Internet
02:25does is it makes it so that that
02:26community can exist across you know
02:28despite any boundaries and and that's
02:30just extremely powerful but what it
02:31means is is that instead of having what
02:34would be called sort of strong ties
02:35where you know everybody really well
02:37like you know what they ate for
02:38breakfast right you like you like you
02:40know know that they snore at night right
02:42you know like beside you know you made
02:43it right yeah if you know all of those
02:46things well on the internet right you
02:49can have like much you can have
02:50everything from really strong ties to
02:51really weak ties people that you sort of
02:53barely even know but still have some
02:54kind of connection with them and that's
02:57also really powerful but they're just
02:59they're different things so you know as
03:01an entrepreneur and as somebody's
03:03building a company and we had a lot of
03:04these discussions today and it ranged
03:06from you know folks from a lift where
03:08there's a community around getting
03:09people from point A to point B or air
03:11B&B where there's a community around
03:13staying in in people's homes
03:16how has community sort of insinuated
03:19itself into building companies
03:22especially ones that are sort of
03:24internet-based and software based we
03:27sort of kind of backdoored our way into
03:29it there's a lot all of our business
03:31models are sort of largely based around
03:32large groups of people coming together
03:35to do things and sometimes we
03:37conceptualize that as crowdsourcing
03:39sometimes we conceptualize it as like a
03:40marketplace like Airbnb we think of
03:42themselves as a marketplace in some
03:43sense but really at the core what's
03:47going on is it is communities creating
03:49things at a scale that was just never
03:52possible before right and that's you
03:54know so all the sharing economy stuff
03:56like really at the courts of communities
03:57accomplishing things and and the
03:59technology world didn't approach it that
04:00technology well users right like it
04:02wasn't and so I think that's what's the
04:04interesting shift happening now is that
04:06you in particular and you're sort of
04:08peer group understand that it's not just
04:11more and more and more users it's
04:14something else yeah so it's interesting
04:16to see a lot of the political background
04:19from some of the folks that are kind of
04:20on the front lines of this at Douglas
04:21Atkin who is now at Airbnb if you're
04:24gonna have to turn they're sort of
04:24massive user base into
04:26a community and it has some great early
04:28success with that but like he comes from
04:30from a political world get a few other
04:31folks from a political world and it
04:33turns out that politics kind of has this
04:36secret to this because for a very long
04:37time they've had to figure out how do I
04:39get a very specific person to the polls
04:42on election day right and the best way
04:45to do that with a lot of volunteers
04:46right is with a lot of volunteers
04:48organizing people on the ground and so
04:50the the concepts and the principles
04:52behind that now can apply to you know
04:55organizing hosts for meetups right I can
04:59sort of organize hosts for screenings
05:00can organize hosts for like actually
05:02like places for people to stay right
05:04right um and and now are there things
05:06that you've learned along the way about
05:08how to build a community the sort of
05:10boundaries of like these kinds of
05:12communities and also sort of kind of
05:13building a business around it one of the
05:16big lessons for us has been really
05:19baking community into our company
05:22culture it started we had this whole you
05:25know we got funding from injuries
05:27Horowitz you know we were saying you
05:28know our headcount was like ramping up
05:30really quickly we were at 30 employees
05:32before we knew it and we had this
05:34wholesome situation that I remember what
05:35it was but we were all talking about it
05:37and someone suggested that we go around
05:40a circle and just explain why it was
05:42that we were there and and sort of one
05:46sort of employee after another you know
05:47it's been like a couple of minutes just
05:49describing how they got the nation
05:51builders of why it was that it mattered
05:52to them the thing that they wanted to
05:53change and by the time it got to me I
05:56was just totally speechless like
05:58actually couldn't spot I couldn't talk
05:59it was so overwhelmed with the
06:03connections that we had already created
06:05right amongst the staff and the
06:07community and and since then we've
06:09worked on helping employees understand
06:12their story right I'm telling it we
06:14actually are we have a storytelling
06:15director who sits down with folks for
06:18several hours to help them craft their
06:20own narrative and then and what we're
06:22finding is that being able to powerfully
06:25communicate your story and how it
06:26connects to our company just radiates
06:29out from the staff and so it radiates to
06:32our customers to our designers and how
06:34when they talk to folks right all right
06:37those stories both internally and
06:41um it's everybody we talk about so so
06:44instead of a sales team we have an
06:45organizing team right right so there's
06:46they're very much designed to you know
06:48as you know folks sign up on the website
06:50for the free trial through or they go to
06:52a conference to sort of meet folks they
06:53go and they share their stories right
06:55they talk to people one time we we train
06:57people through pretty aggressively and
06:59how to do that it's fairly common in
07:01political organizing world to do this it
07:03can be Obama campaign trained hundreds
07:05of thousands of volunteers right in
07:07their story how it connected to the
07:09campaign right we were in a room filled
07:12with people who are sort of understand
07:14the community is important do you see it
07:16kind of percolating out into two
07:18different kinds of industries and in
07:20different ways did more and more people
07:23understand the sort of the power and the
07:24importance it's people are definitely
07:27starting to have a glimpse into it I'm
07:29core markets for us or politics and
07:31nonprofits they've known that they
07:33needed this stuff for a long time but
07:34we're starting to see folks you know
07:36inspired by Kickstarter crowd tilt a lot
07:38of this stuff that we're there they
07:40don't quite realize that what that is is
07:42it's organizing the community but
07:44they're seeing the power of it and so
07:46there's a lot of our efforts now are
07:48helping folks understand that you know
07:50this has actually been going on for a
07:51really long time here's how it worked
07:53it's really amazing and it's not just
07:55about that one project it's about the
07:57next one and the next one and the next
07:59one building relationships with people
08:00over time give you the opportunity to
08:02create and do things that you know you
08:04could never have done otherwise you
08:06don't have to ask for permission you
08:08basically just need to have a community
08:09that cares I mean so you must have a
08:11lens on this daily if not hourly right
08:14and then what kinds of things you see
08:15happening as a result of disability to
08:18sort of bring people together and and
08:21part of what excites me so much is that
08:23there's all of this untapped potential
08:27sitting in corporate offices with people
08:31at jobs that they hate right because
08:33they've been sold this story that like
08:36you have to like make as much money as
08:38possible and like that is what's going
08:39to make you happy so you go through
08:40school and college you make all this
08:42money and then and then they're sitting
08:43around they're like they're miserable
08:44right and what community provides with
08:48the internet provides a community at
08:50the potential to create the thing that
08:54you were always meant to create and you
08:56may not actually even know what that is
08:58yet right but if you can figure it out
09:00right and you can tell a story about why
09:03it matters to people right you can get
09:05funding for it right you can get people
09:06to host the screening of your movie
09:08right you can do pretty much anything
09:09and so um we are only beginning to
09:13understand right the possibilities of
09:15this and so what really excites me is is
09:17not some sort of vision of what the
09:20world is going to look like because I
09:21have absolutely no idea what its gonna
09:22look like and it's gonna be awesome
09:24well I am with you and I will meet you
09:28in the awesome Jim thanks so much for
09:31coming by and coming up and talking
09:33through community thank you thanks
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