00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michel
00:02Copeland Chris milk calls virtual
00:05reality the ultimate empathy machine the
00:08filmmaker and founder of VR shop verse
00:10that's VRS II talks with a 16 Z's Chris
00:14Dixon about how virtual reality can
00:17connect with people in ways no other
00:19medium can milk describes the way is
00:22Virtual Reality production veers from
00:24the traditional techniques of filmmaking
00:26and why the results can transport people
00:28to places and feelings that we've never
00:30experienced except in the real world
00:34Chris Dixon starts things off so now we
00:37have Chris milk maybe if you could tell
00:41people what what you're working on we're
00:44sort of a media technology company
00:46that's building the tech to serve the
00:49evolving language of storytelling and
00:51virtual reality I can go deeper into
00:54that you talked about I know you've
00:56written about them talked about the sort
00:57of idea that there's a new grammar to
00:59virtual reality and how the default
01:02state is belief and not disbelief can
01:03you talk about that and how and and
01:05maybe some of the lessons you've learned
01:06so far I think we're still figuring out
01:08what Wow how to make things in VR but
01:11yeah the grammar is a good word because
01:14I talk about I talk about like how we're
01:18writing this new this new language of
01:21storytelling in what is a new medium and
01:25and I would say like at this point we're
01:28we're just like figuring out how to
01:31sound out words like it's not even
01:32grammar at this point because I think it
01:36might take just doing using a lot of VR
01:38myself like everyone originally thought
01:39it would be first-person games and they
01:41turn out to be actually very bad in VR
01:42yeah and they actually cook you know
01:45because if you think about a year now in
01:47the body of that person and and all of
01:50these things we've built like people
01:51shooting at you which in the world of
01:53rectangles you needed this intensity
01:55because I were sitting far away from it
01:56and likely but now once you're inside of
01:58it like whoa so I'm shooting at me yeah
02:00it turns out I'd loose in my experience
02:01much calmer a third person or steadier
02:06and less violent experiences work a lot
02:09better yeah so that's a trivial example
02:11I guess but yeah so that's this
02:13that seems to work right like the stuff
02:15that I see in it's kind of raw unmolded
02:19form having that like that spark inside
02:22of people when they feel it that goes
02:24beyond just the wow factor of like oh my
02:26gosh it's virtual reality is feeling
02:30transported to a place and feeling
02:32connected to the people inside of that
02:34place that you find yourself in and
02:35there's a real there's there's a really
02:38interesting human connection that's
02:40happening with the audience and and the
02:44and the subject matter and the and the
02:46characters inside of inside of the
02:48virtual reality world so you're building
02:49and there's a lot of and I talk about
02:50this and I did a TED talk about this
02:52whole topic is like we I'm saying
02:55virtual realities like it is the
02:56ultimate empathy machine you see people
02:58feel feeling resonating with these
03:01people in these worlds that that you
03:03never ever would see in five minutes can
03:05you talk about it as like the some of
03:07the examples like the I think the
03:08refugee camp yeah so we we did um we
03:12started really quickly I got connected
03:17with the United Nations and started
03:19making virtual reality films with them
03:21we are doing all kinds of things we're
03:23making horror films we're doing comedies
03:27but I wanted to do something with a like
03:31a higher purpose right off the bat so we
03:34start we got with the United Nations and
03:35the and what we're doing is we're making
03:37these this series of films where we
03:40essentially bringing you to a place of
03:42people in need somewhere in the world
03:44and letting you understand their
03:46situation and and their their daily
03:48existence and we're not just showing it
03:50to people on the streets raising money
03:54which we are doing but we're also
03:55specifically targeting world leaders
03:57both in the United Nations and places
04:00like Davos in the World Economic Forum
04:02the people that can actually affect
04:03change from the top down and showing
04:06them these films where they would might
04:08not find themselves in a Syrian refugee
04:10camp which was the first film we shot in
04:11Jordan and that one we tell the story of
04:14a 12 year old girl named Sidra who's
04:16been living there a year and a half she
04:18fled through the desert with her family
04:20and ended up in this camp and then we
04:22just did another one in Liberia where we
04:27tell the story of this woman that
04:28survived Ebola contracted it survived it
04:31and now is immune to it and is helping
04:33the community educating the community
04:37and helping others in the community is a
04:40real stigma for orphans of those that
04:42have died of Ebola and they're sort of
04:44outcasts and she's taking care of them
04:46but they're very they're very
04:48transported so we see we do we see those
04:52sort of nonfiction things working
04:53incredibly well that's going to work
04:56well in narrative a narrative is you
04:59know where when it's not when it's
05:01nonfiction you sort of understand as an
05:03instantly I am the perspective of a
05:06camera this is a this is something
05:08that's happened in time that I'm
05:09existing within whereas when you start
05:13narratives that are more like movies you
05:17there's what your perspective represents
05:20when you're inside a bedroom and there's
05:22a couple talking in bed it's different
05:25than when it's on the rectangle because
05:27now you're not just a witness to it
05:28through a window you're actually in the
05:30bedroom with them so what does that mean
05:32and can audience become comfortable with
05:34that there's also I mean the things that
05:36that we're seeing don't work there's a
05:39lot of things with camera movements in
05:42the way that you you treat the camera
05:44that can make you nauseous so the the
05:48way that the the read the big reason
05:51that you get nauseous and virtual
05:52reality is is your your your brain is
05:57constantly checking what your eyes are
05:58telling you and what your interest of
06:00either system is telling it and they
06:02you get nauseous the reason that is is
06:06because you're cavemen and ancestor when
06:09he ate the bad woolly mammoths are the
06:11poisonous mushrooms and he saw the world
06:13moving like this and his body made him
06:15throw up so that he didn't die he
06:18survived that's you know that's that's
06:20your that's your ancestor so we have
06:22that now when you're in virtual reality
06:23and the move the world moves in a way
06:26that your physical head is not moving
06:28you get nauseous so the first like
06:32that's real practices out from oculus
06:34was the camera never
06:36so the first thing that we did was move
06:37the camera and what we found was that
06:40you can move the camera if you keep it
06:45at a constant motion its acceleration
06:47not loss of acceleration in the
06:49acceleration and then because you're
06:51interfacing with the glove the games of
06:52like if you try like Lucky's tale and
06:54things like they they have a sort of
06:56like Steadicam or following a character
06:58and right right that seems to be what
07:00people are converging on right so your
07:02university our system doesn't sense
07:04constant motion like it does
07:05acceleration to acceleration that's why
07:07when you're on a plane you don't feel
07:08like you're flying at 100 miles per hour
07:10so we can do linear linear is better to
07:15not curving but we're working with
07:17curving and we think there's ways to do
07:19that but what's interesting is the so
07:23now we're so we figured out okay that
07:25works that doesn't work now if now what
07:27we're working on is what how do you
07:30break the rule just like a little bit -
07:31hat - actually for creative results
07:34right so if you look at cinema you go to
07:36film school but what they'll tell you on
07:38day one is you have to learn the rules
07:41you have to go through four years and
07:42for those of us who aren't film like
07:45like we're all used to now like so for
07:47example an establishing shot right you
07:49show the outside of a building and then
07:50you and then you show the scene inside
07:52of the building but that took a long
07:53time for filmmakers to understand right
07:56isn't it if you go back I like the old
07:57Charlie Chaplin movie they show like
07:59five minutes of people just going in and
08:00out of Grand Central Station and yeah
08:01you know like and they don't I mean your
08:03close-ups or I don't know Utah right but
08:05it didn't take a long time to figure
08:07these things out so yes I mean it took
08:08it took a while to figure that out and
08:10editing was the first big thing where
08:13they realized like you could cut from a
08:15wide shot to a close-up and and that you
08:18would and that there was a language to
08:20understand there and people you know at
08:23the beginning of cinema it was just a
08:25bunch of newsreels and they were
08:26shooting clays from the back of the
08:28theater they didn't understand what a
08:29construction of a feature film was and
08:31we're in the same position now in
08:33virtual reality we don't know it's not
08:35going to be about making a movie in
08:37virtual reality it's about figuring out
08:39what the equivalent of a movie is what a
08:41movie is - cinema or film what is the
08:45equivalent of that in virtual reality
08:48that would take years to figure out but
08:50we have to also they in if you look if
08:53you just look back at other mediums they
08:55had to figure out the pieces of the
08:57language before they figured out what
08:58the encapsulated storytelling vessel was
09:01and in film editing was a big one being
09:05able to move the camera so they tell you
09:08these things in films go like you need
09:10to learn the rules before you could
09:11break the rules and great filmmakers
09:12break the rules for creative reasons and
09:15what we've started to do now and it's
09:18early days but we've started breaking
09:19the rules for creative reasons in
09:21virtual reality so there's a film that
09:22we have the film that it's called
09:25evolution averse where the train comes
09:26out you and there's a moment of that
09:28where you you rise up off the ground and
09:31this is a film that I made as a as a
09:33filmmaker and I can make the camera go
09:37from 0 to 60 in one frame and you won't
09:40feel you won't feel a sensation in your
09:42body you'll just see yourself rising I
09:45mean you'll see yourself now traveling
09:46what I did was I built an acceleration
09:49into the into the move at the beginning
09:52because I actually want you I want you
09:55to feel it in the pit of your stomach
09:56when you start traveling up the same way
09:58that you feel it in the pit of your
09:59stomach when you start traveling up in
10:01an elevator it's actually the same it's
10:02the same thing so that's that's that's a
10:07tool that's 100% a creative tool that we
10:10and it's a tool like we've never had in
10:12any other medium because I'm like I'm
10:15actually getting inside of you and and
10:17tweaking your physical biology and
10:20making you feel like something on an
10:23emotional standpoint from it like
10:26technology to physiology to like emotion
10:30that's what that's that's it incredibly
10:33did you know the Michael Avery stuff he
10:36did about the studies they did did you
10:38see this stuff so like they did these
10:39studies where people would look down
10:42into virtual like they're standing in a
10:43room obviously but it's like they look
10:44down as if there seemed clear yeah and
10:46they've done it a hundred times and they
10:48know it's not a cliff and yet they are
10:51unable their legs just buckle like they
10:53are unable like the the when you get to
10:55what they call in the in the business
10:57presence like this feeling of true
10:59tricking your brain it happens like the
11:01computer analogies that happens in sort
11:02of a low-level system beneath your
11:04conscious brain and you literally cannot
11:06you know your lizard brain has decided
11:08there's a cliff there and if you don't
11:10let your legs move regardless of the
11:12fact you've done that a hundred times
11:13and you were trained like this is this
11:15is one of the really astonishing and to
11:17me at least was one of the really
11:18astonishing results yeah how deeply it
11:21does sort of trickier yeah well that's
11:26I mean what's happening what's happening
11:27there so to speak so the I gave that
11:30like the question of like is this a new
11:32medium and and I talked about how this
11:34is this is the last medium and the
11:38reason that is is because it's a it is
11:40the first it's the first medium where
11:42the technology actually allows the jump
11:45from it being like an observable
11:49technology to being a human interface
11:52where the where the the technology is
11:54not observable and that's because
11:56essentially what it's doing is it's
11:58mirroring currently it's mirroring two
12:01of your senses so closely that you
12:04experience it as as your lizard brain
12:07experiences the real world and even and
12:10what's incredible about it is that even
12:12in its rawest first iteration form or
12:17not first iteration but first consumer
12:19consumer iteration which is like a cell
12:23phone on a piece of plastic with some
12:24lenses and or a piece of cardboard and
12:27some lenses and and there's you feel it
12:31on your face and like you see the pixels
12:33and you it's not full field of view you
12:35still have that feeling where you can't
12:37take a step forward off a cliff that
12:39doesn't look anything like a real
12:40immunoassay dramatically better the next
12:42couple of years to some yeah many
12:44questions one of the things that we wind
12:49up giving up I guess if we're you know
12:51putting these glasses on and enjoying a
12:53movie or music video is the kind of
12:56shared experience that we have when we
12:57go to a movie theater and it's not just
13:02the shared seeing exactly the same thing
13:03as people sitting next to you but also
13:05the social experiment of like smelling
13:08you know going on at a specific time is
13:10there an analog to how that may happen
13:13and most like in a same common place
13:16where people go to what was once a movie
13:20theater and now it's a bunch of you know
13:22pods that give you access to the best
13:24technology of the day yeah okay so I'm
13:28gonna I'm gonna answer your question one
13:31way and I'm gonna contradict myself okay
13:32so the first the first thing is that
13:39that you you come to - I hear this
13:44question a lot and and you come to that
13:46thought process by comparing it to
13:48cinema which is a natural thing to do
13:50that's the so we all sat in the darkened
13:52theater and this doesn't work that way
13:53and it doesn't work that way because
13:55fundamentally it's taking over the
13:58senses that give you that shared
14:00experience that you have in the movie
14:00theater right now I think that the first
14:05thing I realized is that it is a
14:06completely different medium and it's
14:08gonna have its own set of rules its own
14:11set of plusses and minuses and people
14:14don't talk about books not being you
14:17know a worthwhile valid medium because
14:20you can't sit in a room with 100 other
14:22people and read them together and have
14:24that shared experience every medium is
14:27okay now I'll contradict myself so
14:29having said that I don't want to make a
14:33world where everybody is hat is sitting
14:35in the dark or sitting in their own
14:37living room by themselves having this
14:39experience I think there I think there
14:44is great power and versatile reality for
14:45the viewer to connect to the person
14:49inside of the film and I or if we call
14:52it a film and I think that there is also
14:54potentially the great power for the
14:55audience to connect to others to have a
14:58shared collective experience I don't
15:01think it's converted movie theaters I
15:03don't think it's pods and we're actually
15:06working on a number of different ways to
15:09accomplish this where I mean what you
15:12want it to be is you don't you don't
15:14want I mean this is a this is a this is
15:16a technological virtual world that
15:19you shouldn't need to be to feel like
15:22you have to go to a place and drive your
15:25car and park in a parking garage and pay
15:27$20 and sit in this room and then drive
15:30have you tried 20 bucks another no I'm
15:32trying it okay so there's this great
15:34demo where which okay that's and I think
15:36they're talking about it publicly but
15:38it's one of the oculus demos they've
15:40just done and it's you're with you're
15:42basically interacting in this virtual
15:43world with another person who obviously
15:45can be like in this case with another
15:46room and the building but they could be
15:48just and you are on the internet and
15:50it's interesting because it's sort of a
15:52symbolic representation of their face
15:54like it's sort of a I don't know what
15:55how you describe it and then like their
15:56hands like an avatar but you've the
15:58sense of presence is very very strong
16:00like I felt like it was a very it's
16:03that's why was it was a pretty one of
16:05the best to me it was like a big leap
16:09forward as you know and it also by the
16:11way they have full hand motion basically
16:13now with this new thing oculus touch
16:15which made another big leap in this case
16:17you're grabbing what you're doing is
16:19you're in this virtual worlds have a
16:20person and you have these toys all over
16:22and you can grab these like guns and
16:23play ping pong and shoot each other and
16:25smash a ball and you're in outer space
16:26and shoot the guy I need shrinks and his
16:29voice sounds different you're chatting
16:30and you're high-fiving and you just
16:32feels like you're there and you're and
16:34the hand thing you just lose I mean it's
16:36not perfect but it's good enough that
16:38your brain is you're there I don't know
16:40yeah can I just sort of ask I think it
16:43will be very social in the end I mean I
16:44think not initially I think and look I
16:46think it's one of these things my own
16:47view is that you know it's the the Delta
16:50between kind of how the images look you
16:53know there's like tumblers of everyone
16:55like staring and you know men staring at
16:57oculus or whatever you know joking about
16:59how antisocial looks that the Delta
17:01between how it looks and how it
17:02experiences is wider than any other
17:04technology in my view like it you
17:06experience something completely
17:07different than how silly you look right
17:09like so it's helpful to hear that kind
17:12of views on the social part of it but
17:13I'm also interested in sir the
17:14technological part of in a sense that
17:16you know when movies first started tumor
17:18started people would go there because
17:20they didn't have TVs you know and people
17:22started going to movies because soon
17:24that was the place you could do 3d and I
17:26could do in your house is there a moment
17:28in time now where to do something you
17:31really want to do is a film made
17:34would require very expensive technology
17:36to be the viewer that's not the kind of
17:38level technology that individuals would
17:41want to buy but they would actually need
17:42to go to a shared place so you could
17:44leverage you know I'll make something
17:46that something cause a hundred thousand
17:47dollars to have one of these viewing
17:49experiences yeah which people aren't
17:51going to be buying for a long time in
17:52their house so there's something there's
17:55a thing in Utah called the void which is
17:59it's a sort of a large-scale virtual
18:02reality interactive kind of like it's
18:09all how do you describe it do you need
18:10yeah there's a couple there's a couple
18:12people doing like arcades experiences
18:15amusement parks whatever you want to
18:16call them um there's the boy there's a
18:18few others that have come to us where
18:20you see you're on a spaceship and you
18:21walk up to the screen and and then you
18:24you press the things on the screen and
18:26there's an actual piece of glass that
18:27you're physically touching that's been
18:28placed there that's tracked into this
18:30world that you're in that's something
18:33can conceivably could do you could add
18:35other senses basically what you're doing
18:37is adding um if you tried the game of
18:40okay yeah so the the big thing is like
18:44eyes and ears October like oculus is
18:46gonna be the state-of-the-art eyes and
18:48ears but the other senses they'll do and
18:51I have to say like I was very skeptical
18:53the other senses they send a gimmicky
18:55now I've tried all the demos and
18:56actually does add something to it
18:58because very effective yeah it's like
19:00your brain and not ears are already
19:01tricked and suddenly you have wind and
19:03in one case there was like water
19:04splashing and like mist and wind and
19:07like one of the demos is you're in watch
19:10Game of Thrones but this the elevator
19:11that takes you up the great wall or
19:13whatever and it's like shaking and you
19:15can hear the noise and you feel the wind
19:17and I actually thought I was gonna I was
19:19not expecting much and I was actually
19:21pretty impressed by how like the whole
19:22thing worked for me and yeah we had a
19:25funny experience at Sundance we were
19:26showing this vice news piece that we did
19:28where we went to one of the protests in
19:31New York one of the big marches around
19:32police brutality and we had a Steadicam
19:34going through with with the marchers and
19:37a vice news reporter reporting and we
19:40were showing it at the new frontier
19:41section and Sundance which is a gallery
19:44space and there's lots of people
19:45outed and everyone has headsets on and
19:46people are bumping into you and we put
19:48people in and it's like six minutes long
19:50and they be in there and we'd see people
19:52go oh and they come out and I said how
19:57how was it and they'd be like it was how
20:00did you know like to hit me when that
20:03guy with the with the orange hat was
20:05right next to me like that with his
20:06elbow out and it just your brain
20:08automatically just starts connecting the
20:10senses together if it believes two of
20:13them so you don't even have to get it
20:15that close to to make it really feel
20:17something do you ever feel like with the
20:21current camera technology you're limited
20:23in what you can do as a filmmaker or
20:25like how much better do you think it
20:29needs to get for you to artistically
20:31accomplish maybe what you want to do or
20:34is that it's not a limitation it's I
20:38mean you you build your own camera yeah
20:41we build our own cameras only because we
20:43have to I mean we think that's that's
20:45not a business that we're trying to get
20:47into we I mean there's gonna there will
20:49be off-the-shelf solutions eventually
20:51shortly from me we had Google here
20:54yesterday like Steve who runs yeah you
20:57know the jump project is an example I
21:00think that's great and the main thing is
21:02camera a camera looking out looking in
21:05looking out so it's a ball looking out
21:08right which means when you're inside of
21:11the experience you're essentially
21:13inhabiting the place where the ball of
21:14cameras was and we can move the camera
21:17around and bring you on rails to
21:19different experiences and we're doing a
21:21lot of that and we're having great
21:22all right last question two quick
21:26first of all just could you share with
21:28us your guess for the timeline like when
21:30do you think a major movie a major
21:32Hollywood studio will start producing
21:33these movies they'll be available to the
21:35public that's the first quick question
21:37second question is more technical on how
21:40big is the how big are these files the
21:42the Steve from Google jump was saying
21:44that it's like gigabytes of data per
21:47minutes how big are your movies where do
21:49you host them do you see Netflix
21:51actually storing these things I mean
21:52they're gonna do is they're gonna have a
21:55data warehousing that they're gonna need
21:57to solve so how do you yeah how do you
21:59see the technical problem being solved
22:00okay so first question when when when
22:03major studios getting in I mean the so
22:07we are we are working in partnership
22:10with all of the major studios right now
22:12they're the main thing that they're
22:14doing is marketing for existing
22:17properties that that are coming out so
22:20it's so the creating VR sort of
22:22marketing experience you know like
22:242-minute things too right
22:25not so much trailers but standalone
22:28experiences like this game of Thrones
22:30thing I described that you know the and
22:33ready player one they're doing some
22:35stuff right because you know they're
22:36doing ready player one is a very famous
22:37via our book which is nasty is two of us
22:39making two movie and I think they're
22:41gonna do right I don't know I've heard
22:42I'm not getting from you I've heard just
22:44rumors they're doing a lot of promos
22:46around that with VR up Pacific Rim they
22:48had one there was like a tornado movie
22:50that they have on this show at a
22:51comic-con and they'll put it out
22:54I think Godzilla maybe has one they'll
22:55put it they'll release it to the public
22:57as well so real and that's the thing is
23:01like it's not about making a movie in
23:03virtual reality like huh you can't like
23:06having a two hour movie it's it's like
23:10that's like when is the first play gonna
23:12come out in in cinema when is the first
23:15book and what come out right so you
23:16don't think it'll be a two-hour thing
23:18it'll be I think some I think people
23:20will try to make a movie because that's
23:21that's what we always do is when we we
23:24find a new medium we try to copy the
23:25previous medium into the new medium so
23:27there will be movies made I can't tell
23:30you whether they'll be good right now if
23:31you if you told me that there was a
23:32movie in virtual reality that was two
23:34hours long and had to sit there with the
23:35thing on my face it's I'd watch it but
23:38I'd know that I probably wouldn't be
23:39that comfortable in it by the end and we
23:41don't have the language like just even
23:44telling that the 3x tractor to our thing
23:46in verse reality where does the camera
23:48what does the camera do like what what
23:51you can't you're not gonna cut like the
23:53way that you cut a movie is you have a
23:54wide shot and then you cut to maybe
23:57another way of asking we dancers is when
23:58will this be a mass medium
24:01fair and like like when we'll just you
24:03know it'll be just like millions of
24:05people every week go and use VR yeah I
24:08mean that's that that that is that is a
24:10that's the big question is how fast some
24:13we're not doing one in ten years yeah
24:16how fast adoption Reno's I mean there's
24:19a lot of different factors there's a we
24:21now have the thing that's moving the
24:23fastest is actually the hardware
24:25technology we have all the major
24:26manufacturers building the consumer
24:30available headsets there seems to be a
24:32lot of excitement and demand the thing
24:34that's actually the least develop is the
24:36content side you will see there's a sort
24:40of like wait-and-see from the like
24:43you're not gonna make a hundred million
24:45dollar movie right now because you're
24:46never gonna make a hundred million
24:47dollars back from your VR movie because
24:49there's there's not one hundred there's
24:51not there's not there's no our
24:52marketplace to make it it's really gonna
24:54be this sort of what happens right as
24:55these these these hopefully these
24:57virtuous cycles kick in where you get
24:59enough headsets out there and then
25:01developers come and then that makes it
25:03better and then more people come and
25:04those in my experience those flywheels
25:07are the hardest thing to predict in
25:08terms of the timing like we think it's
25:09gonna happen and it feels very much like
25:11it's gonna happen and it certainly helps
25:13the companies like Facebook are
25:14investing a lot of money in it
25:16but it's it's sort of like will it be
25:19you know like I think you could imagine
25:20next year half a million people buying
25:22headsets you could imagine many million
25:25buy I don't know so they're gonna be
25:28expensive initially they're gonna have
25:29some issues there's gonna be not that
25:31not a ton of content there so it's gonna
25:33be you know but the trajectory seems
25:37pretty clear I don't know I mean
25:39eventually it's happening it's gonna
25:40happen it's just a matter of how yeah I
25:43think it's like mobile like you know 95
25:48you would have thought you know if you
25:50were telling you it really it really my
25:52view is mobile didn't start to the
25:53iPhone for real like you know 2007 eight
25:56or something two thousand six seven
25:58eight whatever you know if 1993 you
26:01probably would've thought it would have
26:01happened sooner you know he wouldn't
26:03have expected it was thirteen years
26:04later on the flip side when it does
26:08happen it really happens like look what
26:09happened with the smartphone stuff I
26:11mean this is just everything now and our
26:13world at least like every website every
26:15product everything's focused on this now
26:16it's just replaced computers for the
26:17most part many desktop computers so so
26:21I'm the on the Internet it's not a good
26:22one where it kind of like it kind of
26:24went along went along it was academia
26:25and then suddenly boom right I don't
26:29so on the on the file size of the tech
26:32part of it yeah I mean we use an Amazon
26:36AWS they aren't that huge right now
26:39right but because you take you
26:41downloaded your movies on my iPhone
26:42they're not that huge right now they're
26:43not that huge so and we're about to come
26:47out with a streaming solution with you
26:49know being that sort of like we are a
26:52creative driven technology company so we
26:55build the technology to serve the
26:57creative and and in that process it's
26:59like I can you know a month ago we could
27:02bring our file sizes down to make it
27:05load very quickly but then the quality
27:07sucks so we want to have like the
27:08premium experience that you're getting
27:10the best quality the filmmakers want to
27:12come to us to have their experiences on
27:14our platform because they know it will
27:16look great but what's important to
27:18understand is we're dealing with version
27:20one of cinematic VR right now which is a
27:22spherical video player with stereo
27:24vision and directionally changing
27:27binaural audio that's version one but
27:29there's gonna be many many versions
27:30after that and and version one basically
27:33is under a gigabyte for file effort for
27:38pieces that are like five to seven
27:41minutes long generally that's that's
27:44like sort of about the maximum
27:45compression that I'm willing to do with
27:47what we can do currently okay
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