00:00so I'm Michael Copeland I'm with
00:03andreessen horowitz and we are lucky
00:05today to have James Bashara founder and
00:08CEO of tilt and Ryan spoon SVP digital
00:11product of a network we all love ESPN so
00:16and we've one family Ryan we're gonna
00:19get to finish Ryan has been a startup
00:23entrepreneur started and sold a company
00:25worked at eBay but a venture capitalist
00:29we're gonna talk a little bit about
00:30fantasy football so that derelict
00:33pastime of some people I know anyone
00:36here play fantasy football raise your
00:39on ESPN I'm guessing hopefully okay so
00:44we're gonna get into that it might seem
00:47at first blush this is sort of an odd
00:49pairing ESPN big Sports Network tilt you
00:53guys are a platform for a crowdfunding
00:55and yet you guys managed to pull off a
00:59project together so I want you guys to
01:01just start about how did that project
01:03come together what was it and and we'll
01:05get into the details of how it worked so
01:07Ryan how did you make this man's
01:09acquaintance so probably like a lot of
01:13folks in this room we were privileged to
01:14spend time at what I think you guys call
01:17the executive briefing days yep and a
01:21couple of us from ESPN flew out spent a
01:24day with at your lovely headquarters and
01:27in six hours probably met 15 companies
01:30this was one of them and we walked out
01:33of there actually with a couple deals a
01:36couple interesting partnerships that's
01:40at that day actually you know I think
01:43we'll talk about it but James and team
01:45threw out a couple ideas this was the
01:46one we found to be most lasting fitted
01:49into our calendar and built the
01:51relationship since so James how did you
01:54know you walked in there ESPN I know
01:56you're a big fan of just sports in
01:58general but ESPN in particular how did
02:00you find a fit between what what tilt
02:03does and you can describe that briefly
02:05and then and what yes BN does so tilt we
02:08build crowdfunding software for the web
02:12the big the two big differentiators
02:14between us and anyone else's we focus on
02:17the consumer side smaller more
02:19bite-sized crowdfunding campaigns that
02:21might be 15 people and and a birthday 20
02:26people and a tailgate 10 people and a
02:28fantasy football league this the other
02:30big reason or the other big
02:31differentiator we have is that we're
02:33we've been building these platform tools
02:34these extensible tools for brands to be
02:37able to build on top of our crowdfunding
02:38software so some really cool brands have
02:41built on top of it but going into the
02:44meeting with the ESPE animal it was so
02:45easy for us and what actually guides our
02:47partnership strategy is the behavior was
02:50already happening on Telecom there was
02:52already people pulling money from
02:53fantasy football leagues in troves so
02:55that is such a great North Star for us
02:58to know where there's going to be really
03:00interesting partnership so people are
03:02already getting together on tilt to put
03:05the money pot whoever wins gets X amount
03:07and here walk big time in I think it's
03:08one of the first things that we noticed
03:10when we built the site people are using
03:12for and and so Ryan what made it a good
03:16fit for you guys and I want to get in
03:18also to a big organization working with
03:20the start of what that was right but you
03:21know what did you see in and then how
03:23did you move forward so I think the
03:25first if you had Northstar ours was
03:28fantasy for us has become such a
03:31fundamentally important part of our
03:34digital experience and it is a massive
03:37population of highly active people but
03:39in small pockets how many we'll have I
03:44think across all of our fantasy games
03:47this year 15 million players they make
03:49up they are the most active users on the
03:54site so that as example this past month
03:58was cross ESPN our historically great
04:01month year-over-year across multiple you
04:04know measurements 30 40 % growth we did
04:0810 billion minutes across all ESPN
04:09digital ten billion across all digital
04:12and over one and a half billion of that
04:16was fantasy I mean it is a very
04:18significant sticky highly engaged the
04:20other really fascinating part
04:22is the activity change is so
04:25significantly based on where you are and
04:27what time of day so there's pre-season
04:29there's draft and then what you do on
04:31Sunday is very different than Monday and
04:33so forth and your your behavior is
04:35whether it's on a device mobile big
04:36screen time of day are most our most
04:39active day of the year is Sunday and
04:43coincidentally we do not have NFL Sunday
04:46on our air fantasy makes up a big chunk
04:48of it so what we I think collectively
04:51identified was if you think about that
04:54calendar of fantasy usage a very core
04:59part of the pre and and draft is how you
05:01collect a team together how you collect
05:03twelve people together and facilitate
05:06that interaction and that's something
05:08that both that scale but also as you
05:10divide it by ten twelve users it was
05:13very natural fit so what did you guys
05:16actually build or work together on what
05:19did it look like and then how did it
05:20work yes so it's very super simple think
05:24of it kind of like just a button that
05:27takes you to a group kind of like a
05:29group PayPal is easy way to think about
05:31it a button from ESPN and their fantasy
05:34football league that takes you to ESPN
05:36tilt calm that's a co-branded really
05:39simple user experience for 10 12 14
05:42people to be able to pay together for
05:44their their fantasy football league
05:45what's unique about it is it's something
05:48that group payments and we facilitate
05:515,000 people pulling together money for
05:53a crowdfunding campaign or 15 people but
05:56we're seeing this a lot two of these
05:58smaller groups 8 10 12 people doing
06:02things together over and over and over
06:03again in collecting money's a pain in
06:06the ass with ESPN and fantasy football
06:08they have the core user behavior which
06:09is the league which is your draft which
06:11is if you've ever seen it or done it
06:12it's their tool is in to end the best
06:16out there for doing that but this one
06:19little piece of payments and collecting
06:21the money for it was kind of a decision
06:23on there and do they build or buy do
06:25they build it themselves or do they let
06:27someone else take care of this this
06:29piece of it and and for us it was just
06:32honestly it was a lot of luck and
06:35they just took the courage to work with
06:38a two-year-old coming word yeah so let's
06:39talk about that courage company you know
06:42you seem very courageous but like what
06:47were you worried about from your end and
06:48then how did you as a start-up a
06:50two-year-old company make him less
06:53worried I guess if in fact you were so I
06:57was never worried about product fit all
07:01right we identified this collectively it
07:02was a pain point and addressed the
07:04problem I was never really worried about
07:06how to integrate it and this is that
07:08this is actually something we generally
07:10think a lot about where it would sit how
07:12it would fit what's the friction etc the
07:16two things we always think about and we
07:18do a fair amount of work with you know
07:20startup younger companies the first is
07:23scale we are you know we're not the size
07:26of Facebook per se but the scale we have
07:29is actually pretty complicated because
07:32it's very intense at an intense point in
07:34time and very data heavy so we had to
07:38get comfortable with scale and the
07:39second is and this is what I you know my
07:44side think a lot about regardless of
07:46partnership we live in a very calendared
07:48world in sports right MBA kicks off
07:51tonight there's also a game six fantasy
07:53football starting and you know we launch
07:54in the middle of July you got to be
07:56there it's going without you
07:58and so we need to make sure that our
08:00product roadmaps our business roadmaps
08:02that those sync according to a schedule
08:05it's not flexible and how did you guys
08:08sink into that well Ryan's downplaying
08:10it because I'd say him and George
08:13Georgia lemurs here somewhere there's
08:15George those two guys it's a lot more
08:19courage than than what they're making it
08:22out to to be I mean and we honestly we
08:24worked we've met and then closed the
08:26deal I think once it launched it was
08:28from the meeting maybe 16 months but it
08:32was something to wear to unpack what are
08:35you saying about the intense moment it
08:37is like a tidal wave to where they
08:39launched fantasy football and this needs
08:41to work it's not this button that they
08:42add in and on Thursday it's not working
08:45so they take it out or there's a bug so
08:46they roll it back it was you know
08:49all their emails it was on every single
08:51it still is on every single page and it
08:54really hits you on you know two three
08:56days right and it's 15 million users
08:59across their fantasy product so it was
09:02something that it might not be this
09:05scale traffic of Facebook but by far
09:07exceeds anything we've seen from any
09:09other site because of how intense it was
09:11so for them and I you know when you're
09:13in the moment it's like of course they
09:15should do this of course they should
09:16partner with us but now looking at it it
09:19is I've got to hand it to Ryan for just
09:22the courage of actually going with it
09:25because a big company like ESPN has so
09:28much to lose actually in these moments
09:30where it's faulty it doesn't work or it
09:34is you know you're dealing with your
09:37work PCI level-one compliant we we cross
09:40every T dot every eye on everything we
09:43do because we're holding people's money
09:44but that's a huge huge courageous bet in
09:48did you ever get nervous or yeah I was
09:55nervous for about seven weeks leading up
09:58to it I mean it's it's something we
10:00we've we've worked with Microsoft with
10:02Dick's Sporting Goods with some really
10:05cool brands Lululemon we've worked with
10:08some really cool brands but that
10:11intensity and how its it is our core
10:14demographic and our biggest demographic
10:16is 18 to 24 year olds so that is it was
10:18going to be the perfect partnership if
10:20we were to outline one for us and yeah I
10:24think I was pretty nervous did did your
10:25own fantasy football league play suffer
10:28as a result a little bit and one of our
10:32guys Brian is here we're in the league
10:34it is suffered a little bit I had your
10:37Auto draft but I'm actually having the
10:38best season I've ever had our software
10:42the software works really well right
10:44how's your team doing when you work at
10:48ESPN you get pulled into so many leagues
10:50that you're rooting for one player and
10:53he's hurting half your team's beating
10:54half I don't know yeah a lot of teams
10:58hopefully not the Raiders it's my guest
11:01so I want to get into the the aspect of
11:04the community that you tapped and why I
11:07mean at least from the outside I think
11:09of sports fans as sports fans you know
11:11fantasy football is a completely
11:13different sort of I think category of
11:15sports fan but why was this right for
11:18what James and Krell Thoth was doing in
11:22terms of like tapping in a new community
11:23and leveraging that sure so it's kind of
11:27two parts to that question the first is
11:31why was this right and the answer I mean
11:35really simply is it's a known clear pain
11:39point and it addressed something that
11:42was not an ancillary problem I mean it
11:44was you know it's commonly commonly
11:47understood and identified at the root of
11:50sports sports are social I'm at the root
11:53of fantasy is fantasy is inherently a
11:56community it's a large community that is
11:59broken down into eight ten twelve at a
12:01time and we've thought a lot about what
12:06community means to us and without a kind
12:10of deep interaction with it or
12:12moderations the wrong term but it can
12:14quickly devolved into go Cowboys I hate
12:18the Cowboys right and it kind of breaks
12:21at that and what you see with fantasy is
12:23just really deep engagement a lot of
12:24it's happening on ESPN a lot happens
12:26offline and that's great and what we've
12:29tried to address community for ESPN is
12:32how do you elevate the conversation how
12:35do you make it personal and there have
12:40been two really or three really kind of
12:41key things that that we've worked on
12:44that have worked the first is a move to
12:47identity so obviously we put out a ton
12:51of content on a daily basis editorial
12:54team and talent is unmatched across
12:56anything else in sports and simple
12:59things like using Facebook as a
13:01qualifier for conversation it lifts the
13:04quality of engagement the second and the
13:08most impactful thing that we have done
13:09from a social and community perspective
13:12is while yes there's a
13:15focus on enabling sharing and making it
13:17as frictionless and fast as possible our
13:20focus has been what happens in those
13:22native environments making sure that the
13:25Twitter card itself is beautiful it's
13:28fun it's unique and fantasy is a great
13:31example of that so during your draft one
13:35click share to a Twitter card that shows
13:36your roster solicits input who should
13:40you start or sit on Monday night you
13:41know and we have celebrity athletes
13:43saying I should are the interaction you
13:45should sit me yeah fastest-growing part
13:49of our of our video business is you know
13:52again frictionless one-click video play
13:55within the Twitter feed making sure that
13:57our stuff natively ports and then the
14:00third is when you hear people at
14:02Facebook talk about this all the time
14:03what are the special moments and those
14:06special moments that's when you induce
14:09the sharing and so forth and for us
14:11fantasy has tons of them right right
14:13draft starts it I beat you I have a logo
14:17I created a logo and take advantage of
14:20those moments to force the sharing in
14:22the social activity so that community
14:24again is especially well-suited to
14:26things that like tilt and other sort of
14:29forms of community and sharing James for
14:33you guys that tilt how are you seeing
14:35you know your platform and crowdfunding
14:37moving outside of sort of the places
14:39that we usually associate with
14:42crowdfunding I think it's it is
14:44something that it's you know with the
14:45way we talk with the way we think about
14:46it is this is the next layer of the web
14:49that we're watching being built and were
14:51part of building it to where you have
14:54these communities online that want to do
14:56things together offline and you have
14:58things like us other crowdfunding
14:59platforms that allow communities that
15:02exist on a Facebook group and a Twitter
15:05following feed on an ESPN fantasy
15:08football league you have 12 people you
15:10have 1200 people that want to do
15:12something as a group they're already
15:13self-organizing on these platforms
15:15forming these communities but invariably
15:19they will want to do something offline
15:20together with fantasy football it's been
15:23so cool to watch and this is what's just
15:25so cool about tilt and in general you
15:28that most of the time they just exists
15:31online do things all fine together like
15:34for example fantasy football they'll
15:36collect their money for their league
15:37through tilt and then three days later
15:40they'll collect money for their draft
15:42party and this epic drop and you just
15:45look at these draft parties in and you
15:46can tell that you know they're putting
15:48nine hundred dollars into a three hour
15:50event renting a back room of a bar and
15:53you know from us we're we're constantly
15:56elated when we get to see these these
15:58communities in these ties that exist
16:00online turn into really offline special
16:03moments and experiences and you see some
16:05of these there was a draft party I think
16:06we saw one that was like six thousand
16:08dollars to rent out an entire bar
16:10because it had the biggest like a
16:12hundred and twenty foot big screen that
16:14they wanted use for the draft that was
16:16like twelve guys that decided to have a
16:18night you know a night of their life
16:20that they'll probably remember forever
16:22and just having that tool having the
16:24community that exists and then having a
16:26tool to be able to do something cool
16:27offline James you had another suggestion
16:30for another product which I think both
16:33of you are excited by but the lawyers at
16:35ESPN may not have found so palatable
16:38just tell us what that was someone was
16:41telling me to tiptoe around this
16:42question a lawyer probably yeah it's
16:46well they quit the actual answer was was
16:49and the idea was very simple and I
16:52thought it was you know in my exuberant
16:54youth I was like they're gonna love this
16:56idea this is social media gold it was to
16:59have in some weekend last year Magic
17:03Johnson said he was gonna put up a
17:05million dollars for LeBron James to do
17:07the dunk contest and then his Twitter
17:10feed just started blowing up of people
17:12saying I'll put in $10 I'll put in $50
17:14I'll put in $100 I'll put in $15 and
17:16then you had Kevin Durant say I'll put
17:18in 50,000 and you had you had Richard
17:22Sherman say I'll put in 50,000 and that
17:25is the examine it's why we're building
17:26tilt is you have this disparate
17:28disconnected demand within a group
17:30around an objective and no way to
17:32aggregate that demand tilt is built for
17:35that and so we mocked something up
17:37overnight and senate's Ryan I was like
17:40we need to do this tour Magic Johnson is
17:42crowdfunding campain brandied ESPN for
17:44LeBron to the to do the dunk contest I
17:47thought it was slam dunk I mean actually
17:50there was no pun intended but I thought
17:53it was gonna work out really well and it
17:56was like we talked about it was like no
17:59it was a very Kurt replies like no I
18:03fun idea I think we we haven't upon
18:06something a little more last thing yes
18:07it was much much moral so let me ask you
18:11Ryan and James YouTube but let's start
18:13with you Ryan you have these you know
18:16hardcore fans and viewers and martyrs of
18:20what ESPN does and you can collect data
18:22and this gets to a little bit about what
18:25what Jeff and Tim were talking about how
18:27you know if you're taking more than
18:28you're given from a data perspective
18:30you're probably doing something wrong
18:31but what I want to know is what you can
18:34know about your you know fans and your
18:38audience and then what you can use to to
18:42monetize that and how do you think about
18:44that so I have the luxurious physician
18:50ESPN Azula luxurious position of fans
18:54want to tell us their interests and they
18:59declare it and that's different than a
19:01lot of other places it's easier for us
19:04in that regard now I don't think we've
19:06done a great job historically of
19:09rewarding you for doing so so we've you
19:12know we've asked you to register we've
19:14asked you to personalize people go that
19:16take that step and things haven't
19:19changed a ton and we've started to over
19:22the last year you know we put a gate up
19:24in front of our largest mobile app
19:26Sports Center and in a year went from
19:29zero percent of people logged in because
19:32they were customizing to the device as
19:34opposed to the user name and it's now
19:36you know around 70% of users are logged
19:38in which for us is a pretty meaningful
19:40milestone the next step is doing that on
19:44the site and we're in the process and
19:47it's in beta now with a about a hundred
19:51thousand each randomly sampled users but
19:53we're gonna totally redesign you
19:55spend calm and a very significant chunk
19:58of the real estate across all pages is
20:00specifically for you versus me so our
20:02experience will be very different how
20:06that relates to how that relates to
20:08monetization a couple ways RR you know
20:14what we are great at of monetizing you
20:16heard it earlier when when a Chris and
20:18Jonah we're talking videos really really
20:20key to us and we know when we put the
20:25right content in front of you video
20:27consumption goes up tremendously on
20:29Saturday we will cut a thousand live
20:31clips from football across college
20:33football and will buzz your phone within
20:3515 seconds of those plays happening on
20:37the field if you're a fan of Stanford
20:39and I'm a fan of Duke we're gonna buzz
20:40with different content but we're going
20:42to enjoy it and open it so we use it
20:44really to drive consumption and yes we
20:46can work with our partners advertisers
20:47to alter how that content looks or is
20:49modified based on geography preference
20:52etc but really what I spend my time
20:54thinking about is how do we reward
20:56people for the action of personalizing
20:58and we're getting better got at least
21:00how do you think about distribution you
21:02know Jonah and Chris we're talking about
21:03how you know they target Pinterest with
21:06this and Facebook with that and and
21:08people don't go through the front door
21:11of BuzzFeed do you guys have a front
21:14door do you how do you what what
21:16relationship do you want with your
21:17audience and is it different than what
21:20was being described by Jonah so we are
21:24fortunate to have a healthy if you're a
21:27sports fan it is a important front door
21:30of your day espn.com that's not to say
21:34that we don't think about our talk about
21:36how do we create your first experience
21:38is really your homepage instead of
21:40espn.com what you come through whether
21:42it's Twitter Facebook email the other
21:46complicate for us is your front door no
21:50longer is necessarily on a big 20 inch
21:53you know last month 55% of our users
21:57exclusively access us on a mobile device
22:00that's a very and that acceleration over
22:04a 12 month period is pretty wild so the
22:07front door on a native app
22:08versus a mobile mobile web versus big
22:10screen whether it's fantasy it's a
22:12different front door than if you're live
22:13streaming the game last night we're
22:17trying to make them visually and and
22:19from a user experience perspective as
22:22consistent as possible but we also have
22:24to honor that your front door within
22:25Fantasy needs to tell you one thing and
22:27it's how you're doing right and your
22:28front door during Monday Night Football
22:30should be the game as frictionless as
22:32possible so James again knowing what you
22:36can know about your customers that you
22:38the folks that use tilt how far can you
22:42go with that knowledge and how do you
22:43use it and how do you sort of I guess
22:45hold back to at the same time I think
22:48right now especially with so our
22:51platform grows pretty virally you use it
22:53for a fantasy football league and out of
22:56those 12 people to will split off start
22:59their own campaign and they'll do it for
23:00a draft party a tailgate a late-night
23:03party a group trip or something like
23:04that so really are our biggest focuses
23:08retention of that morality and not to
23:10try to maximize the acquisition of new
23:14users by using that that information
23:16against them we really just want them to
23:17naturally the it's a testament to the
23:19product just naturally use and love the
23:21product without us getting too much in
23:22their face with ESPN specifically in the
23:25partnership it was the way that it
23:26worked it was pretty and Ryan was just
23:29saying this backstage that it was really
23:31seamless to where there wasn't much of a
23:33Passover of information it really was
23:35you use fantasy football here click on
23:38this button go over and start collecting
23:40your money over there and it's and it
23:42was a pretty seamless transition it
23:44wasn't much being passed on did you have
23:46any did people spin out then two other
23:49tilt campaigns because of ESPN and yeah
23:52they did you get tilt people on ESPN
23:54I don't know doing something else I I
23:57don't know if you guys got tilt traffic
24:00going back to ESPN but I know that it
24:02was a huge differentiator from other
24:04platting football platforms that don't
24:06provide this ability to collect your
24:09dues and it was I think the CTO was on
24:15the old side was telling us that it's
24:16one of the highest maybe highest uptick
24:19and a brand new future that they've seen
24:22is a really really exciting moment to
24:24see their adoption just be so high but
24:28you're distributing this link ESPN telt
24:31everywhere with the ESPN logo and it's
24:34further in a lot of people I don't know
24:36the numbers under a lot of people are in
24:37multiple leagues across different
24:38platforms and if they see that one has
24:40ESPN logo for this functionality and the
24:44I think it's that would have a big
24:45impact on all right final question
24:47gentlemen any football predictions I'm a
24:51Patriots fan so you count Sunday and I'm
24:57a cowboy truth I'm a Cowboys fan so
24:59we'll win I think the next seven Super
25:01Bowls if we just model this out no just
25:04kidding we're lost pretty terribly last
25:06night almost why our quarterback almost
25:08died so that's not that's not good good
25:11luck to your sad teams I'm sorry James
25:15Thank You Ryan thank you so much Michael
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