00:00hi everyone welcome to the 1/6 + Z
00:02podcast I am sonal and I'm here today
00:04with James Bashara he is the CEO and
00:06co-founder of tilt which is easiest way
00:08to collect fundraise and sell with your
00:09community we also have a six in Z
00:12partner Jeff Jordan who covers all kinds
00:14of things including marketplaces hey
00:17there it's great to be here there's a
00:19lot of discussion in the news lately
00:20about crowdfunding I've read everything
00:23from a report about Kickstarter someone
00:26did a study about how much economic
00:27benefits came physically out of like
00:30individual makers down to a community
00:32crowdfunding a beach that they then gave
00:35back to the city publicly which i think
00:37is a super super interesting so I think
00:39the question here is beyond crowdfunding
00:42what is a broader theme that we're
00:44talking about how is this sort of
00:45changing our economy it's a confluence
00:48of a few things it might have a generic
00:50term like crowdfunding slapped on it but
00:54when you look beneath the surface kind
00:56of like social networking it sounds like
00:57a catch-all term but you really look
00:59beneath the surface on what's happening
01:01the ability to for social networking you
01:03can connect with people around the world
01:05instantaneously I think what is really
01:07interesting about crowdfunding or this
01:09notion of pre Commerce and pre-orders is
01:12you get to tap into demand before you
01:15put an ounce of work into production or
01:17for that Beach example you get to
01:19discover the demand for something you
01:22feel like the community might want but
01:24you don't really know and twenty years
01:26ago you just have to make up your mind
01:27you know what I'm gonna put all my
01:29social capital into this and I hope you
01:32financial capitalist and and I hope that
01:35this is just what people want now with
01:37the connected web you can actually tap
01:38into that collective and verify it
01:41before do people want this collectively
01:43and and they get to respond I mean
01:46you're seeing a really interesting
01:47potential evolution in commerce and I
01:49think it's being enabled by two things
01:51one you have this the internet people
01:53are connected and secondly brands are
01:55building their social followings and
01:57this this pre tale or pre commerce
02:00enables you to leverage the internet and
02:03your social following to go direct the
02:05consumers you you get to basically
02:07disintermediate the historic aggregators
02:09so you know if you were selling phone 20
02:13forty years ago you might go through
02:15Best Buy or through your own stores and
02:17more recently through Amazon now you can
02:19go direct and you can sell direct
02:21consumers which brands love to do
02:24because they have the consumer
02:25relationship and they make a whole lot
02:27more margin you know the most recent big
02:29splash of example would probably be
02:31Tesla about four months ago
02:33that's actually really counterintuitive
02:34because when I think of pre commerce
02:36retail and crowdfunding I actually think
02:39of individual like small companies or or
02:42makers it's actually kind of surprising
02:44you're saying Tesla in about three or
02:45four days they sold two hundred thousand
02:48cars I mean this is a car manufacturer
02:51I think they've sold essential about
02:52fourteen billion dollars worth of their
02:54new model and they're expecting you know
02:56thirty percent to drop off but still
02:58seventy percent that would be ten
02:59billion dollars of a car that won't
03:01exist for three or four years that they
03:03got to start selling four months ago and
03:05I think that probably shook the world -
03:07all right this isn't relegated to just
03:09small nimble startups or you know toys
03:13and this is something that big business
03:15can can wake up to I mean why did they
03:18do that that time versus the model that
03:19they've been using previously is it just
03:21that they want to disintermediate the
03:22dealerships or was it just to get
03:24capital right away no matter how much
03:25capital you have you still always take a
03:27risk when you introduce a product a
03:29recent commerce partner press they make
03:31apparel and they said every time they
03:34were already nude a new style or design
03:35no matter how many we order we're always
03:37wrong for order 2000 and the demand is
03:401400 if we order 2000 that a man is 5000
03:43the number is wrong and I think that
03:45that is the same whether you're in a
03:46garage in Palo Alto or whether you are
03:48or Tesla and in so the ability in 2016
03:52to be able to tap directly into your
03:54consumer base it's really fascinating if
03:56you were to describe how you can sell
03:59today versus how you would sell 20 years
04:01ago or 40 years ago say okay yes you
04:04could sell today directly to your
04:06customers get the demand before you put
04:08an ounce of production to work and use
04:10that to Tesla's since he's that I
04:12believe for debt financing of two
04:14billion dollars so able to use that to
04:16verify that a man and securing that
04:18outside capital to produce those those
04:19cars you could do that or you could
04:22actually work through the example from
04:26network of distributors and dealers auto
04:30dealers and you won't get the
04:31information from your customers and you
04:33just have to choose how many you're
04:34going to produce and just hope that
04:35you're close to the right number you
04:38just wait and see three four years down
04:39the road and you put your whole company
04:41on the line betting that people who want
04:43this car I was reading an article today
04:45about GUP Gwyneth Paltrow's company
04:47which I the way and they're doing a
04:49clothing line with a very small number
04:52of SK use and the articles Gwen is
04:55talking about I had we had to decide how
04:57many did it produce and we went and we
04:59produced X and I think it's going to be
05:01way under she doesn't have to think and
05:04speculate you actually can you could
05:06have discovered demand and produced
05:08exactly what you needed and you know
05:10just turning the model on its head and
05:11so for the retailer then you know
05:13exactly what how much to produce
05:15there's no wastage you get a direct
05:18relationship with the consumer and you
05:20get the direct economics on the margin
05:23well the drawback is and we hear about
05:25this all the time where okay you promise
05:27something you don't deliver so how you
05:30what do you guys think about that as a
05:31downside of this yes and there are there
05:34are trade-offs one you're out in the
05:36open so if it if you don't hit that that
05:39minimum threshold you need people know
05:41about it now the second is now you've
05:43you've made a promise to deliver
05:45something and you may or may not have
05:48the perfect complete information of
05:49whether you can deliver it so instead of
05:51directionally guessing the demand
05:53upfront now you have to guess
05:55directionally when you'll be able to
05:57deliver it may that is part of the art
05:59of this that people are still
06:00discovering this story is obviously
06:02still being written for for Tesla but
06:05another really good example of a big
06:07company that's sinking their teeth into
06:09this type of Commerce is Xiaomi and in
06:11China and in each model they will
06:15basically the equivalent of tweeting it
06:17out this is what we're gonna model this
06:20is everything that's going to be in
06:21there 9 to 12 months and order it now to
06:24get in line and then your batched based
06:26on when you order and they've shown
06:28really strong muscles and delivering
06:30within the exact timeframe that they say
06:32they are so I think there will take
06:34there might be some calibration for some
06:36brands and I think you're seeing an
06:37evolution in how this is being used the
06:39early adopters are early stage
06:41innovators so you know people who are
06:43working on a hardware project and you
06:46know that there are probabilities that
06:48they might not be able to deliver that
06:50new company new hardware product as
06:53planned now you've got Tesla and Xiaomi
06:56doing it and you know they're probably
06:58gonna be able to deliver their product
06:59right with lots and lots and lots of
07:02zeros attached to it actually things
07:04interesting that they chose to do it mid
07:06cycle when you look at that famous
07:08drawing that Elon Musk had about his
07:09vision for the future of Tesla and
07:11starting you it's almost like you know
07:13that you've seen those drawings of the
07:14evolution of man - like from monkey to
07:16man standing up and I view the same
07:18thing in a line of Tesla cars you see
07:20this very expensive model going all the
07:22way down to a more mass mainstream model
07:24and he's sort of mid-cycle on this whole
07:26evolution of that and it's interesting
07:27that he chose this point to do it
07:30because he already proved out oK we've
07:31learned a lot and how to produce these
07:33big different types of entirely new
07:35industry of cars and now is a time that
07:38we can now go direct you're right it's
07:40got a lot of zeros attached to it but
07:41it's actually not so big of a risk in
07:42the sense that they kind of know what
07:43they're doing at this point oh and by
07:45the way it was somewhat self-fulfilling
07:46because the more people who ordered it
07:48the more you everyone thought this is a
07:49thing I mean this was front page of the
07:53newspaper every tweet that he would
07:55write each day of now we've sold a
07:57hundred thousand now he sold 150,000 now
07:59he sold 250,000 you you get to be and
08:02you know we haven't discussed this too
08:04much but do you you get to be a part of
08:07this community that is in many ways you
08:10get to be part creator of saying I want
08:12this to exist I want to be a part of it
08:15you get to be a part of the story that's
08:17also something really unique very
08:19internet II but but really cool he
08:21almost get the potential for exclusivity
08:23to that if I don't or preorder it I
08:25don't get it right I think Tesla has
08:27actually they batch to the Mo's well so
08:29if you're number four hundred and
08:31thirteen thousand you're gonna get away
08:33after you know number 87,000 so it has a
08:36fomo quality as well fear of missing out
08:38quality to it I definitely felt it when
08:40he did that on Twitter I think
08:41additionally besides this community
08:43aspect there's a democratization of
08:45access that comes with it as well
08:47there's a lot different people who can
08:49participate precisely because the
08:50internet sort of levels a lot of these
08:53going back to the question of why now if
08:55you paint the history of the evolution
08:57of Commerce on the web where are we in
09:01this evolution what happened is the
09:02first people to show up were the people
09:04who sell other people's stuff because
09:05that's the the easiest thing to bring on
09:08so Amazon being the prototypical example
09:10you know that the world's largest
09:11bookstore what I think over time you're
09:13seeing is brands now have more options
09:16and power to develop that direct
09:18relationship you know Dollar Shave Club
09:20just sold four of a billion dollars
09:22honest company is rumored to be in in
09:24M&A negotiations for over a billion
09:26dollars tying it to that chronology if
09:29you want to sell a book you can sell
09:30directly through Amazon and I think this
09:32fourth layer is sell before the book
09:35exists the Atlanta Hawks is selling a
09:37hat on tilt to its fan base before the
09:40Hat has even produced and in tesla
09:43selling the car before it's produced
09:44before it exists and so I think that's
09:46brand new territory of sell a product
09:49before it exists and that we're just
09:51starting to see you know interestingly
09:53you can even think about it as a little
09:55bit of an as a service if ocation of a
09:57concrete consumer product it wasn't
09:59crazy for a minute but bear with me
10:00Connie was telling me this story about
10:02how China authors will actually write
10:04chapters as they go partly because they
10:06literally see what the demand is and
10:09what's really interesting is that some
10:10of the TV producers and movie makers
10:12will actually look at the data to decide
10:14what books to option that may sound like
10:16a crazy example but I think it's super
10:18interesting because I'm even thinking of
10:19life of Pablo Kanye West's album where
10:21he essentially released it incomplete
10:23because it's almost inching towards it's
10:25not just sell before it exists it might
10:28even be like create in public as you go
10:31so what are the benefits to companies
10:33that are doing this brands get a few
10:36things out of it I feel I would be
10:38remiss not to say that it comes to the
10:39wrists but the concrete benefits are
10:41it's something that I call perfect
10:43scarcity you create this FOMO of be
10:46there first be one of the first buyers
10:48or you could say we're gonna make this
10:50shoe with with Kanye and we're only
10:52going to sell it for seven days so it's
10:54using time scarcity what Tesla more or
10:58less has done is as that number gets to
11:00a hundred thousand one hundred fifty
11:01thousand two hundred thousand right
11:03because they have good way of knowing
11:04what that number would be no they've got
11:06and it could create scarcity by saying
11:07we're only gonna make a hundred thousand
11:08or this and that that is typically how
11:10you do it now they've created this fear
11:12of missing out and this exclusivity
11:14through time of alright I better buy now
11:17at 400 1000 even though that number
11:20sounds really high that number is gonna
11:22it's only four or five months inside
11:23numbers gonna get to six hundred eight
11:25hundred nine hundred thousand sold so
11:27that is something that is that's really
11:29interesting the other thing is they just
11:31get the actual efficiency gains of
11:33knowing what is the demand so instead of
11:36a working capital risk of alright let's
11:38build one factor in hope that we choose
11:39the right number you actually get to
11:41know the right number before you start
11:43production it's hard to overstate how
11:44valuable that is in manufacturing the
11:46third thing I think is and this is it's
11:50subtle but really powerful and that you
11:51get to build this relationship with your
11:53community and turn someone that would
11:55otherwise just want the car into now an
11:57advocate and a purchaser of that car or
11:59there's a self-hosted crowdfunding a
12:02game out there called star citizen that
12:06has had 300,000 people buy into this
12:08game it hasn't been released yet as far
12:10as I know but there is a subreddit with
12:13about 30,000 people just talking about
12:14the game every day every week for a game
12:18that doesn't exist yet and it's you
12:19don't need to pay for it by the way they
12:23are buying in to be a part of it people
12:25cite this stata all the time that
12:26Millennials are increasingly wanting to
12:28pay for experiences rather than goods
12:30but there's this unique combination when
12:34you get to be a part of the experience
12:35of bringing that XYZ to market and part
12:38of that community just a pause on that
12:40for a moment because there is a shift
12:42towards experiences versus goods what
12:45you're arguing is something even more
12:46nuanced and precise which is that you
12:48get to be part of that in the
12:51co-creation side and this is a definite
12:53lead evolution of art and fandom right
12:55people are saying that all art is
12:57actually more about the fans and
12:58interaction than it is about the art
12:59itself at this point what I mean there's
13:02always views on that but you're saying
13:04something even a little bit more a
13:05little bit further about that experience
13:07does this confine to the domain of
13:09physical products is this or is it like
13:12big Tesla products like who's gonna win
13:14in this space it's not just a hardware
13:19we have seen it with events over and
13:22over again the number one DJ duo in the
13:24world used tilt to bring to life an
13:27entire tour the first time anyone had
13:28quote-unquote crowdfunded a tour and I
13:31use that term crowdfunding kind of
13:32lightly because it's it the crowdfunding
13:34can mean a hundred things 100 different
13:35people but in this case they just looked
13:38at it as hey we could actually pre sell
13:40tickets to a concert and only do the
13:42show if we sell a thousand in the first
13:44six cities that sell a thousand tickets
13:46and quote-unquote tilt and a thousand
13:48then we will come to a show there they
13:49sold out about a hundred are they in
13:51about an hour and twenty minutes almost
13:53the time it takes for Coachella to to
13:55sell out off of one tweet to their their
13:59user base and granted this is a very
14:00socially savvy DJ duo and what they
14:03immediately created was their biggest
14:05fans became their advocates trying to
14:07get 999 other people at their school to
14:11buy this concert so that they would
14:13actually come to their school empower
14:15the advocacy of their biggest fans and
14:18you know the the ones were most
14:20successful got the concert what about
14:21people who don't have existing brands
14:23like how do they fare in this sort of
14:25new world of retail or pre commerce I'd
14:28be lying if I said that this just is the
14:31panacea for launching a product or
14:32company it still takes a lot of work and
14:34to succeed you've got to be really
14:36really on your game you have to have a
14:39finger on the pulse of what people
14:41really want and you've got to take it
14:42extremely seriously but we've had a
14:44project use our enterprise tool which is
14:47the most popular pre-order and
14:48crowdfunding Enterprise crowdfunding
14:50tool in the world for 30 to 35 million
14:54dollar projects there's but there's a
14:56drone company they were a six person
14:58company they launched and within about
15:0130 days they reached 10 million in
15:03orders and then they went on to reach
15:05about thirty five million dollars of of
15:07orders so you don't have to be a large
15:09brand Tesla yes they had a brand but I
15:12think we could all agree that the last
15:14four months it's kind of entered into a
15:18variance right so going back to the
15:20experiential economy what are some of
15:22the experiences that people can buy
15:24online it's not just on on till but
15:27across a lot of these platforms for us
15:29you could tilt a five hundred group gift
15:32or pitch in for $2,000 honeymoon instead
15:36of individual gifts the thread what
15:38we're talking about is collectively we
15:40can really unlock much more than we can
15:43individually whether you're the
15:44individual company Tesla and
15:46collaborating collectively collaborating
15:48with your customer base or you are sonal
15:51and you're collec collaborating with
15:52your 15 friends for the friends right
15:56okay so what you're talking about though
15:57how is that different than just like
15:59saying like oh let's all go in together
16:00and get a gift very simply you get to
16:03essentially publish the idea online and
16:06then gather the collective demand for it
16:08and not take on any risk at the end of
16:11the day what is you know I and I almost
16:13hate to use this term because it's it's
16:15been thrown around so much at least in
16:17the valley of trying to search for
16:19social commerce and there have been
16:22different ideations of what it will look
16:24like is it commerce on something like
16:26Facebook or on Twitter I think it will
16:29be much more much more nuanced but much
16:31more powerful than just oh at your
16:33social graph to your credit card
16:35transaction it's much more participatory
16:37of collectively socially the only way
16:41this happens is if everybody goes in
16:43write to me the overarching theme of
16:45this entire conversation is new types of
16:47commerce and we've talked about pre
16:50commerce and now social commerce to your
16:52point they can be related and you're
16:54right people have been talking about
16:55this concept of social commerce and the
16:57sense of Commerce on Facebook and
16:59Twitter and just like you said just
17:01adding your social graph but it's not as
17:02simple as simply going to your social
17:04graph it's actually about collectively
17:07purchasing something whether it's an
17:10experience or a gift or something else
17:11right it's not just kind of something
17:15you slap on but it's actually baked into
17:17the the actual commercial behavior so
17:21it's interesting if you look
17:23historically you did say okay social
17:25commerce said that's just obvious you
17:27know put the two together it actually
17:29has been harder in real practice I mean
17:30a PayPal did a few deals and back at the
17:34beginning of the decade with the
17:35Facebook and you know felt like okay
17:38there you have money there you have
17:39social graph we have social commerce
17:40right well it just it hasn't worked that
17:42way it hasn't been easy so it takes a
17:45to doing this it's not just a new set of
17:48paint it's it's a native thing where you
17:51understand that it's about collective
17:53action not just about my social graph
17:55does my social graph that there are all
17:57kinds of different graphs that are
17:59coming together you get graphs of
18:00friends for a wedding present you get
18:02graph for sports fans for fantasy
18:04football you get graphs of car owners
18:06for Tesla and so it's not just the
18:09meaning of the two it feels like it's
18:11needed to be something new something
18:12native so a few interesting stats
18:14there's this tipping point within let's
18:17say you need $100,000 for that widget if
18:20you can get to about 34,000 it kind of
18:23takes on a life of its own when you get
18:24to about five people and about 3334
18:27percent that community is committed they
18:29obviously pulled out their wallets they
18:30want this thing to exist and now they
18:33become advocacy to get that other 66% I
18:36don't even know how to couch this as you
18:39want as anything other than just a
18:41really unique stat that we've seen what
18:44you're really saying is the tipping
18:45point at which that campaign will have
18:47enough momentum that it will close and
18:50be successful right for a group gift on
18:53tilt or a large product so 10 friends
18:56going together and a baby shower gift
18:57you're saying about three and a 3.43
19:00people and a half of a torso I think it
19:06really ties in this communal social
19:09nature to how we operate as as humans
19:11from the advocacy side of hey let's
19:13everybody pitch in the money or a
19:15project on Kickstarter hey everybody
19:17let's reach this minimum threshold to
19:19the other side of people kind of
19:22in-group out-group being on the outside
19:23saying I want to be a part of that
19:25community it looks like it's taking off
19:26you know it's really interesting about
19:28this as we've been talking about this
19:29idea of not being able to just slap on
19:32social commerce onto a social network
19:34there is a concept that comes out of
19:36social networks of Dunbar's number you
19:38know it's that famous number that
19:39psychologist Robin Dunbar found that it
19:42takes about people really only have
19:43about 150 friends and there's a lot of
19:45interesting studies about whether that's
19:47true or not true online and you know
19:48there's a lot of debate over although
19:50that number has held pretty steady and
19:52so it's really interesting is this is
19:53almost like a Dunbar's number for social
19:54commerce this 33.4% or is it what's
19:5940 percent that's 34 percent which is it
20:01takes about 34 percent to tip the
20:04completion of something that's
20:06collectively shared or bought another
20:10characteristic of it that that may help
20:12explain that is all this is happening in
20:14public and it's very visible and there's
20:16all kind of subtle motivations that come
20:19into play one of which is almost
20:22obligation of like oh crap I mean all my
20:24friends or the other was excitement it
20:29could happen think of the psychology
20:31that underlies a number like that you
20:33get different psychologies in different
20:35campaigns but the fact that it is public
20:37I mean our son went to a high school and
20:39they they used to offline used to do
20:43have the thermometer saying we're
20:45raising for the new science a hundred
20:47thousand dollars and our goals there
20:50it's like a big hourglass thing with
20:52like beads and it's so unbelievably
20:54static whereas if you can't go on and
20:56say oh my god it's already half funded
20:58and Jane and Jimmy gave it to it it is
21:00just so exciting it will have a
21:03different outcome it'll be more
21:04successful you know what's so
21:05fascinating about this is essentially
21:07what you're talking about is bringing
21:08the the mechanics of what really makes
21:11online special morality the ability you
21:14know but we have reality in the real
21:15world obviously I mean let alone actual
21:17physical viruses like catching a cold
21:20you also have word of mouth and things
21:21spread but it happens in a very
21:23different way online and much faster
21:24much accelerated which is a different
21:26range of people outside your own
21:29it can be democratized different groups
21:30there's all kinds of flavors to it but
21:32it's really talking about bringing the
21:33mechanics of online into the physical
21:35world if you think about
21:37brick-and-mortar retail and then you
21:39think about e-commerce anything about
21:40crowdfunding it's not linear either
21:42necessarily and now you think about this
21:44pre commerce economy to me what's
21:47interesting is it's actually the
21:48intersection of physical and software
21:50eating the world at the same time
21:51because then you can actually bring like
21:53software type thinking into the real
21:54physical world and this idea of pre
21:57commerce pre tale social commerce it
22:00kind of sits at the edge of this one of
22:02the potential challenges of doing this
22:04is you publicly you may put out
22:07something that doesn't get funded that's
22:09a whole lot better than actually have
22:11built the product shipped
22:13to stores and then find out there's no
22:14demand for it how do you think other big
22:16companies like other big enterprises are
22:18gonna take up this on and we talked
22:19about examples like Tesla and Xiaomi but
22:21do you see like Best Buy
22:24guys you were at the forefront of
22:26watching this happening so it and our
22:29prediction is that it will continue to
22:32evolve and it will just go from the
22:34nimble startups to the nimble big
22:36companies then to to really everyone
22:38recognizing the benefits and I think
22:41that is the evolution of what we will
22:42see is let's just actually sell the
22:45thing that we want to sell and let's see
22:47what the demand is there's a whole whole
22:49industries around demand discovery you
22:52know just trying to figure out okay how
22:53much of this do we in they're all you
22:57know predictive tools subject to error
22:59this isn't subject to error this is this
23:01is a number yeah and and you are
23:03discovering exactly for better or worse
23:05and typically the earlier you know you
23:08know your demand the better off you are
23:09and this gets you this tells you your
23:11man immediately I think that that type
23:13of efficiency when you can speak to the
23:15economics of the business then it's it's
23:18it's not just a kitschy marketing thing
23:20it's a real hard conversation that
23:22executive chef and that's why I go to
23:24that Tesla example because it was this
23:27watershed moment I would imagine that
23:29Monday when they had reached about three
23:31four billion in sales that Monday three
23:33days after launch a bunch of executives
23:35are going into the office in cities
23:37around the world saying how the hell do
23:39we take advantage of this new behavior
23:41of customers willing to pay before the
23:43product exists willing to wait much
23:45longer that and that's a very
23:47crowdfunding ask thing willing to wait
23:49you're right people expect instant
23:50gratification other way you would think
23:52but if you can essentially say alright
23:54you're gonna give up the immediacy of
23:56this but you're gonna get to be a part
23:58of the story get to be a part of the
24:00experience of bringing this to market I
24:02think it's a trade-off consumers are
24:04making every single day in a really big
24:06I just want to make a note that it's
24:07everyday people because my sister-in-law
24:09her mother in Irvine California doesn't
24:15know much about tech I mean she has a
24:16mobile phone that's about the most is
24:18one of the people who signed up to
24:20pre-order that does left
24:21oh it's basically willing to wait a
24:23couple years and in fact is discussing
24:24how long to hold on to her current
24:26rickety car so she can wait out buying
24:28that car no I I had a friend that
24:31actually I think one of the questions
24:32that comes up is well what's the
24:34conversion what are kind of the typical
24:36conversion rates you see if something
24:38that won't launch for you know years so
24:40their big question was okay is this
24:42gonna slow just cram down conversion
24:44because people like well I'll just wait
24:45what is really interesting what we've
24:47seen is actually heightens conversion
24:49from the conventional points of just
24:52you're only taking in the credit card
24:54you asked for shipping later it's super
24:57just you you it's basically six fields
24:59instead of eighteen to convert on a
25:01mobile device I had a friend that bought
25:03a Tesla and in put down that that
25:06deposit in an uber in the kind well it
25:10in the back of a car he bought it on his
25:12phone and I think it is something tied
25:15to that one just the the conventional
25:17mechanics is just it was it's really
25:19easy but to it's this being a part of
25:21the story it's three this FOMO of oh I
25:23better get in line early momentum you
25:26want to be part of it exactly right and
25:27it's and it's not just a tech thing
25:29guaranteed access and I think it really
25:31plays in the back of people's minds if I
25:32might miss out even further you would in
25:35the typical car buying scenario you go
25:36to a physical dealership you comparison
25:39shop you look at consumer reports and
25:41you've trade and compare and blah blah
25:42blah it'll be really interesting to see
25:44how this ecosystem evolves because as
25:47crowdfunding or even more precisely as
25:49social pre commerce takes off there will
25:52now be an ecosystem of new tools to help
25:54enable this frictionless experience
25:56where you can buy you can do a review
25:58maybe in-app or get other insurance
26:01or you can get a discount if you
26:03recommend it to an email thing it's
26:08gonna change our entire vocabulary for
26:09marketers for manufacturing heads I mean
26:12down to even the word conversion I mean
26:13you describe conversion but I'm thinking
26:15that the definition of conversion will
26:17change in the future as you talk about
26:18this very concept we try to stay pretty
26:20level-headed around the so where it
26:22works and where it doesn't but I think
26:24it's one of these things where it's kind
26:25of like the term ecommerce it feels
26:28really dated now well isn't everything
26:30II at this point exactly you're buying
26:32on Amazon I don't really think I'm
26:33participating in e-commerce this is so
26:35me it's just this is the best way to buy
26:37well for me and and I think that
26:39similarly this pre Commerce this notion
26:42of buying something before it exists is
26:43I mean it's radically different right
26:46now we fast forward five years six years
26:49seven years and it will just be the best
26:51way to sell something and in fact as you
26:53say as people do more and more of this
26:55in public the expectations will evolve
26:58as well societally where you then are
27:00okay waiting as we talked about you are
27:03okay with imperfection you are okay if
27:06deliveries are earlier late or maybe not
27:08quite as specified I think as this
27:09evolves so will our behaviors as they do
27:12with every other social system that
27:13we've built well you guys this has been
27:16a really interesting conversation we've
27:18talked about a couple of different
27:19things we've talked about the evolution
27:20of Commerce and whether you define this
27:23new aspect of pre commerce pre orders or
27:25pre tail and whether those are all
27:27different overlapping things I think
27:30social commerce is it also the same
27:32thing or something different
27:33and finally what comes next but it's
27:34it's a really interesting trend to pay
27:37attention to thanks guys thank you
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