00:00hi everyone welcome to the a 6nc podcast
00:02I'm sonal and guess what today we're
00:04talking about Pokemon go it's actually a
00:06broader conversation about a our
00:08augmented reality about apps and games
00:12and just more broadly you know how to
00:14tell the difference between a fad and
00:16something that's real and here to stay
00:18and joining us to have that conversation
00:20are a6 and z deal partners
00:22Kyle Russell and Inoue her urine and we
00:24also have the CEO and founder of
00:28ryan hoover welcome guys all right great
00:31I don't quickly get some contacts so I
00:32think we should first share what
00:34pokemons go is for those that don't know
00:35or if you're one of our international
00:37listeners and hasn't had a chance to
00:39experience it yet so do you guys want
00:40just quickly like say what it is sure so
00:42Pokemon go is an adaptation of the
00:45Pokemon franchise of role-playing games
00:48by Nintendo for mobile devices so in the
00:53world of Pokemon kind of classic
00:54gameplay that's been around for 20 years
00:56now you walk around this big environment
00:59generally based on areas in Japan and
01:02you randomly encounter Pokemon which are
01:05Pocket Monsters which are essentially
01:08weird versions of real animals so it's a
01:10bird that has electricity coming out of
01:13it or a turtle that can spray Jets of
01:16water so in the games you randomly
01:18encounter them and you can either battle
01:19them or catch them so basically to bring
01:21the world Pokemon to mobile knee antek
01:24and the attack being the company that
01:26was previously owned by Google correct
01:28and raised from both Google and Nintendo
01:31and the Pokemon company which is a
01:32separate entity owned by Nintendo and so
01:34to bring it to mobile what they did was
01:36the world that you explored to find
01:38Pokemon is now the real world and the
01:40maps that you walk around and navigate
01:42through our actual maps from Google Maps
01:44and when you find Pokemon it's typically
01:47near what are called pokey stops which
01:48are augmented versions of real landmarks
01:51where it highlights it on the map and
01:53you go there and you can get free items
01:54and Pokemon a more common and there's
01:56another real world location that's
01:58highlighted and these are typically like
02:00somewhat bigger landmarks and then these
02:02are called pokémon gyms and this is
02:04where the competitive aspect of the
02:05gameplay comes in where people go to a
02:08gym and defeat the pokemon that are
02:10already there and then leave one of
02:13it's essentially a representative of
02:14them and their play style this is very
02:17similar to racing video games where
02:18there's kind of this ghost mode where
02:20you race against other players previous
02:23records and you can actually see their
02:24car on the map next or on the track next
02:27to you it's very similar to that where
02:29it's asynchronous you're technically
02:31battling another player but it's not
02:33happening at the same time they're not
02:34actively battling with you every single
02:35time someone comes to a gym why is it so
02:38popular because I have to tell you some
02:39of the most amazing stories I've heard
02:41our story is about people walking two
02:43miles without knowing it people getting
02:45out of their houses and exercising
02:46strangers meeting each other in
02:47neighborhoods and of course is
02:49inevitable get off my lawn and then get
02:51on my lawn competition going on there's
02:53also this amazing story that's been
02:55making the rounds about this autistic
02:57mother saying her child actually
02:58connecting socially with other children
03:00people saying thank you and getting help
03:03because he's so engaged in the game and
03:04even this lovely moving story about an
03:07animal shelter being out of dogs because
03:10people were using them to walk so they
03:13don't look like idiots playing the game
03:14so they had an excuse to walk their dog
03:16and actually catch Pokemon it's just
03:17amazing and what's what's happened now
03:19to make this happen like what went into
03:21this I think what's super interesting is
03:23that ingress launched several years ago
03:25by the same same team and it was
03:27relatively successful for compared to
03:29most apps and services but not nearly as
03:31successful as Pokemon and part of that
03:34is just the branding itself and Pokemon
03:36has been around for a few decades it has
03:38the systolic factor that I grew up with
03:41it's so many people around my age grew
03:43up with and it's also something that's
03:45that's extremely accessible you know you
03:47see kids playing it too even you know
03:50adults and you'll see these people
03:52running around on the streets now
03:54holding their phone and awkward ways and
03:55you could tell they're playing Pokemon
03:56and so it's had this interesting
03:58nostalgic factor and just accessibility
04:01that's reached such a wide audience
04:02whereas with most big social platforms
04:05let's take snapchat as an example they
04:07started off really focused on a younger
04:09teenage audience and while they're
04:10growing over time to a wider audience
04:12initially like my parents would never
04:14use snapchat on day one now they are but
04:16it takes several years to get there so I
04:18think that's super interesting mechanic
04:20of Pokemon go yeah I think in addition
04:22to the you know we can underestimate the
04:24Pokemon IP right the 20 years of
04:27Staal gia thats ultra minute but for
04:28someone like me who I would poke Iman at
04:32all I think what got me to the app was I
04:35just saw a lot of people walking on the
04:37road doing some funky thing with the
04:39phone and I think what got my attention
04:42was really the light they are aspect of
04:45this app which is you know showing the
04:48fictional creatures in real local
04:51landmarks I mean I think that was pretty
04:53fascinating for me to get started on the
04:56app and I think that got me to start the
04:59app and you know start playing it and I
05:01could also play as an individual so I
05:03started getting more excited doing it
05:05and I think there are a lot of elements
05:06of the gaining mechanics that gets you
05:08hooked to the app you look at the
05:10Pokemon IP and how powerful it is they
05:12could have slapped it on almost any
05:14gameplay concept say like an endless
05:15runner along the lines of what was
05:18what's the one that we all are everyone
05:20played Temple Run you know you can
05:22imagine like in the same way that
05:23there's like a spiderman game that's
05:25based on that that's done pretty well on
05:26that I Pokemon could have just been
05:28slapped on to that and it would have you
05:30know taken off on the App Store for you
05:32know a couple of days would have been
05:33featured it would have blown up then it
05:35likely would have just faded it away as
05:36kind of another one of these endless
05:38runners where I think Pokemon go really
05:42like kind of clinches it is the fact
05:45that the IP applies so well to this
05:47gameplay concept in that as a kid
05:49playing Pokemon you want it to go out
05:51there and catch pokemon with your
05:52friends just like they did on the TV
05:54show and this enables exactly that in
05:57that you want to go out with friends
05:59because it's kind of you know a little
06:01lonely to walk four miles at a time on
06:03your own catching pokémon so you go out
06:04with your friends and you're in real
06:06world places you end up encountering
06:08other people so it feels like it's less
06:10dorky than it is and then this there's
06:12this again as a new mentioned a light AR
06:14mode where when you do encounter a
06:16Pokemon randomly you can then hold your
06:19phone up and look through the phone's
06:20camera and actually see the Pokemon on
06:22top of the real world and so just as a
06:25brief aside on what AR is this is
06:28augmented reality so what's the
06:29difference again between AR and VR could
06:31you define it for the audience virtual
06:32reality is you know what we're seeing
06:35coming out of oculus which was acquired
06:37by Facebook valve with HTC vive so it's
06:41idea of headsets that you wear on top of
06:42your on your face where it blocks out
06:45the real world and puts you inside in a
06:47highly immersive virtual world so it
06:50looks like a game and that it's rendered
06:52content running on your graphics card
06:54and you're kind of in that experience
06:56and they try to play up the immersion
06:58with you know positional audio so sound
07:00comes from different parts of the
07:02environment around you just as it does
07:03in the real world and usually have like
07:04hand tracking so you can interact
07:06directly with things in this virtual
07:08space augmented reality is very similar
07:10in that you know what we get excited
07:11about when we think of AR are these
07:13headsets where you know like microsoft
07:15hololens where you still see the world
07:17around you but it layers on bits in
07:20addition to the atoms that you're seeing
07:21so you know hololens they call the
07:24things that you see holograms that's not
07:25technically accurate but it's close
07:27enough for what people's
07:28conceptualization of the concept or of
07:30the idea so basically it's you go around
07:33and you're seeing Pokemon on your phone
07:36screen and when you encounter it you
07:37lift your phone up and see a Pokemon
07:39through the screen projected on top of
07:42just really quickly simply just simply
07:45distill it VR is an immersive
07:47self-contained environment and AR is
07:49really about layering that virtual this
07:52over the real world right yeah so white
07:55AR you know again what we get excited
07:57about here in Silicon Valley is are
07:59these headsets where you know that in
08:01five years there'll be glasses and
08:03you'll just always have these virtual
08:05things floating around you as you're
08:06going that's an important point because
08:12I think you know Chris Dixon here always
08:15says that every new thing starts looking
08:17out like a toy and Pokemon goes surely a
08:19game I think this was the first I would
08:22say like a massive game that showed
08:24light AR meaning you could get some
08:28experience of rudimentary augmented
08:30reality without an additional hardware I
08:32would say it's the first game and the
08:33second app the first game in the second
08:37up I say I say it's the second app
08:38because we've already seen a very
08:40popular AR implementation on mobile and
08:43that snapchat snapchat filters it scans
08:46your face using the front-facing camera
08:47detects the geometry of who oh that's
08:50your nose that's your cheek so it's
08:52mapping your face and then it applies 3d
08:54this is how you get you know these faces
08:56where there's a cat on top of your head
08:58and paws are dangling in front of your
08:59eyes you can take a selfie or you see
09:01people point their phone at the TV when
09:03Donald Trump is giving a speech and they
09:05put puppy ears nose and a tongue coming
09:08out of his mouth that that's technically
09:11is when people swap their face with
09:13likes papers or still objects that use
09:15because that is phenomenal yeah it's a
09:17snapchat yes it's the fried on't even
09:19know his Pokemon is the second right
09:21because there have ingress itself you
09:23could argue was pretty much trying to do
09:25the same they used the Geo the
09:27geocaching and the mapping element of
09:29Pokemon it quickly just defined why the
09:31geo-mapping so much yeah that's actually
09:33the second element of the gaming
09:35mechanics which makes the game really
09:36interesting which is you know a you're
09:38in the real world so you know they
09:41obviously are using Google Maps and John
09:43Hanke the CEO of the company has a
09:44background from Google Earth as well but
09:47what's what was very interesting to me
09:48is even as you walk around the
09:50andreessen horowitz office you know they
09:52know the exact location and the walkways
09:56within the campus that's really
09:58important because I remember in the
10:00early days of that kind of mapping we
10:02use always talk about how indoor mapping
10:03and geo that kind of fine-grain detail
10:06is so key I mean think about the chance
10:08to retail you can do so many amazing
10:10things because so they like they know
10:12the entries in Horowitz fountain they
10:13know the fountain behind the rosewood
10:15Hotel they also know they take
10:17information on climate and weather
10:18conditions you know for the gaming
10:21aspect of it they decide you know if
10:22you're close to the ocean should I put a
10:24water pokemon or should I put a
10:25different type of Pokemon but you can
10:27just understand York City for example
10:29its subway tracks you'll see like a
10:30Bellsprout which is a little teeny
10:32little plant a Pokemon yeah so I just
10:34think that the the amount of detail that
10:37they've collected with this mapping data
10:38and is is important to know even if
10:41they're not you know it is helpful in
10:43the gaming context but if you want to
10:45draw a broader trend I think this goes
10:48on to say what other applications you
10:49can do have it with this information
10:51that you're collecting yeah well there's
10:54actually something also interesting
10:55going back to how awkward it is to see
10:57some people holding up their phone and
10:59talking and I was actually in an uber
11:00the other day and driving going across
11:02the street and this guy you took a car
11:04just to go across the street not across
11:10in the corner and he's holding his phone
11:12like looking up in the air and I'm like
11:14that guy's playing Pokemon and you know
11:16these there's certain apps that have
11:17come around that actually make people do
11:19awkward weird things and those are the
11:22things that inspire word-of-mouth and
11:24so like older examples like Shazam for
11:26example Shazam is an app that I think a
11:29lot of people know where you you
11:30recognize a song you hear a song you're
11:32like what what song is that what artist
11:33is that and people end up holding your
11:35phone up in the air you don't really
11:36have to but people have this gesture of
11:38holding their phone up in the air and so
11:40when you do that you now attract you're
11:42like a magnet for conversations people
11:43like what are you doing or or if they
11:45know Shazam there there now reminded by
11:47I think urban dictionary is another one
11:49that came out a long time ago which had
11:51this function where you'd shake your
11:52phone and it would give you restaurant
11:54recommendations and of course that's
11:55like an awkward weird silly thing to do
11:58but when you do that in front of someone
11:59people gonna be like what the hell are
12:00you doing and Pokemon is very very
12:03similar in that it's inspiring people to
12:05do awkward strange things that inspire
12:07word-of-mouth and get people talking and
12:09that's kind of an understated thing in
12:10the mechanics of the game itself just
12:12Pokemon go have a network effect I mean
12:13it clearly has a viral growth and by the
12:16way just to quantify that growth what is
12:17it like what they reach their stock
12:19value has changed like astronomically
12:20for a Nintendo but we just sound a
12:27little crazy to be given you know the
12:28game it's a mobile game and that it was
12:32Dell you know they've invested in the
12:33company it was not the game that they
12:35developed on their own but I think yes
12:37you're right so which is in the sense it
12:39is purely viral growth it's what people
12:42see and it's a very different kind of
12:43viral growth right which is usually you
12:46see why little growth you know like free
12:47let's take Instagram for example people
12:49saw photos on Facebook it was a social
12:50media driven viral growth but here
12:52they're seeing people walking on the
12:55street and they say well what are you
12:57doing with the phone oh I'm playing
12:58Pokemon oh let's you know let me also
13:01download the app the Pokemon IP I think
13:03cannot be underestimated that helped
13:04drive our growth my personal views it's
13:07too early to say whether they have a
13:08network effect given the gaming elements
13:10today I don't think they have a network
13:12effect why because you know if you go
13:14back to the definition of network
13:15effects it is the more users that are on
13:18the platform the more valuable it is to
13:21the more user the more gamers playing
13:23Pokemon go is it more valuable to the
13:25existing gamers well today the app big
13:28game doesn't work like that I could get
13:30up to level eight or level nine with
13:32that another player interaction I'm just
13:34going out with you no I'm playing with
13:36Kyle and Austin because it's fun right
13:38so but not because I'm getting
13:39additional value but I do think I don't
13:41want to push back I okay so I would say
13:43that there are elements of the game
13:45where there are at least early hints at
13:48network effects and I think that by kind
13:49of implementing a few more kind of
13:51obvious gameplay mechanics they could
13:52push them further so there's this item
13:55that you can use during a game play
13:58called lures where you go to a poky stop
14:00when these real-world locations where
14:01pokemon are already more common you get
14:03free items and you can install a lure at
14:06these pokey stops that lasts about half
14:07an hour and everyone in the vicinity of
14:10that poke you stop then has an increased
14:12odds of finding Pokemon and also finding
14:15rare Pokemon and so you could argue that
14:17in especially in dense areas where
14:19there's already more people playing as
14:22you crank up the percentage of people in
14:24that area playing the more likely it is
14:25that someone will deploy a lure at one
14:27of these real-world places and then you
14:29want to go there and so you see this
14:30just in my apartment complex we have a
14:32park right outside of it where every
14:34night I checked the app kind of over the
14:37course of the several hours after I get
14:38home and I go downstairs when there's a
14:40Pokemon lure and there will be people
14:42down there also there because of the
14:44lure and so in that way you know having
14:47a density of players yes does improve
14:49the gameplay you level up faster you
14:51catch better Pokemon you get more free
14:52items and there's a couple of obvious
14:54mechanics from the Pokemon IP that I
14:56think would when kind of implemented in
14:59the game are going to kind of crank up
15:00these effects so like a big part of
15:02Pokemon is catching different kinds and
15:05then trading with other players so that
15:06you get the ones that you want and you
15:08know they can have their you know
15:10favorite side goes beyond the nostalgia
15:12point that Ryan brought up earlier this
15:13go says notion of collectibles because
15:15that's another correct gaming mechanic
15:16we haven't really talked about like this
15:17it's it's almost universal behavior that
15:20you have to collect the set catchphrase
15:23of the series is gotta catch them all
15:25and so there's a hundred and fifty
15:26Pokemon and you're you find different
15:29ones in different areas and so if you
15:32know my friend lives in LA and I live up
15:34there's different pokemons right around
15:35where we live when we do hangout we can
15:37then theoretically once they implement
15:39this trade the Pokemon that we each had
15:42is there's some elements of comparative
15:43advantage there yeah and in fact they
15:45just announced I think I believe they
15:46just announced they're gonna roll out
15:48Pokemon trade yeah where you could and I
15:50think there I can see elements of
15:52network effect right because you know
15:54for example if you started late in the
15:57game and you're at a lower level today
15:59you really can't conquer any gym and
16:01it's sort of like how do you get and we
16:03talked about this like the adoption
16:04curve is different that at the early
16:06stage they make it easy for you to get
16:07up to level six or level seven it's
16:09interesting then when you're level 20 or
16:1115 or 20 or above you're you know the
16:14the curve is again different and you're
16:15excited but getting through the mid
16:18stage is the hard part where I think the
16:19Pokemon training can really come in yeah
16:21and that I can't see signs of network
16:23effects there because you know you find
16:26a team or you're working with your
16:27friends to trade your Pokemon so that
16:29you're helping each other to get the
16:31game to the next level which makes it
16:32more exciting so at that point the
16:34network it becomes more valuable with
16:36more users and therefore at that point
16:37it could I know that's an interesting
16:39way to look also at network effects and
16:41there's something you talk about a lot
16:42of how there are specific mechanisms by
16:45which you can kind of build Network
16:47effects into your product and so you
16:49have to think about how can we make this
16:52product more valuable for each
16:53individual users by just adding this one
16:55thing that lets them kind of bounce off
16:57of each other in in some way yeah and
17:00what's what's been interesting is since
17:02two weeks now or so there have been
17:04nearly a hundred things posted on
17:05product product time about Pokemon
17:07anything from a chat app for Pokemon
17:09because you can't chat with your friends
17:10directly inside the app today inside the
17:12game to crowdsource like Wikipedia like
17:15map so you can like see where all the
17:17Pokemon are and people are contributing
17:19across across the nation across the
17:20world and these are essentially just
17:23demonstrations on what the people the
17:24players want within the app itself it's
17:26actually really great it's like an MVP
17:28for Niantic in some ways understand like
17:31how people are building upon the
17:33platform itself and a lot of those do
17:35demonstrate and incorporate aspects of
17:38network effects like the chat for
17:39example Ryan what do you mean more about
17:40it's like an MVP and by that I'm
17:42assuming you mean the Minimum Viable
17:43Product for neon tech like what do you
17:46yeah it's I mean these these are people
17:48pokemons and love building products
17:50they're building these things that they
17:51wish existed already inside the game and
17:53by doing so they're giving Niantic just
17:56an opportunity to see okay how do people
17:58receive this how what what direction did
18:00they take in this this new crowdsource
18:02map for this chat app etc and you know
18:05this is how a lot of platforms actually
18:07start as they get really hot and then
18:08people start building on top of it and
18:11snapchat seen that Facebook seen it if
18:13you look at the top of the Apple App
18:14Store right now in the top five there's
18:16an app where people playing the game can
18:19say oh I spotted this particular Pokemon
18:21at this spot so that other players can
18:23know where they want to go where they
18:24should go if they want to go like oh I'm
18:26missing an Onix where in Oakland could I
18:28go to find one and and that's again
18:30something that should be in the
18:32application frankly to introduce keeping
18:34again more virality more benefits of
18:36playing with other you know the rest of
18:38your friends who live in slightly
18:39different areas so you're not walking
18:40around directly with them but you still
18:42benefit from their you know kind of
18:44mutual engagement yeah the other point I
18:47would add is I think this is very
18:48distinct about Pokemon go and for you
18:51know for the first time it's a new way
18:53of monetizing using a game which will
18:58actually probably help sustain or
19:00develop these network effects more
19:01easily or sustain it longer so the lure
19:05that you talked about the rare pokemons
19:07that Ryan pointed out I think retailers
19:10restaurants and bars now have a new way
19:14to attract people to their locations
19:17using these various elements of the app
19:20we already know that they announced a
19:22partnership with McDonald's museums are
19:24doing really interesting things to get
19:25more people into their doors using
19:27Pokemon this weekend I want to see
19:29ghostbusters in Oakland and every single
19:31bar and restaurant in the area had to
19:33lure out everything yeah but taking that
19:36out to the net taking that up to the
19:38next level like hey I have a vapor I you
19:40know I sponsored a Vaporeon in my store
19:42you can just imagine the amount of
19:43traffic it's gonna drive and also you
19:45know it's almost like the amount they
19:48can monetize based on each of these
19:50elements will be different and it'll
19:52drive different traffic to those
19:54respective locations which irrespective
19:57of whether Pokemon go is going to exist
19:59or not I think is a big phenomenon
20:00something I think is interesting is
20:02all the comparisons we're making are to
20:04apps not to other games to all these
20:05different apps that have some
20:07gamification hooks you know with
20:09snapchat there's this idea of your
20:12streak how long you've messaged back and
20:14forth with another player and you want
20:15to get that score up and you know on
20:18Foursquare there they were really early
20:20on with emfe vacation with the idea of
20:21mayor's people who would go to different
20:23real world locations typically
20:24restaurants and check-in and then if you
20:27checked in enough times you would beat
20:29everyone in the area and become the
20:30mayor of Starbucks or Pete's and that's
20:33actually very similar to claiming a
20:35Pokemon Jim and I think it's interesting
20:37to see how you know whereas those were
20:40gamified apps Pokemon go is a epified
20:43game in that it's the main way you're
20:47engaging with it as a form of you know
20:49game ish content but the value derived
20:52from it is o I ended up deciding where
20:54to go tonight based on where lures were
20:56out in this ecosystem of apps that you
20:58guys are describing that's growing up
20:59around you know all these context
21:01awareness Lyday are all these things
21:03that are happening location what's the
21:05difference between a gamified app versus
21:07an epiphyte game so I would say that it
21:10has to do with kind of just what is your
21:12typical mode of engagement with the app
21:15late Foursquare you're primarily there
21:17to figure out where we're going to
21:19dinner tonight or we're right near me
21:21you should I get the best coffee and
21:23then the gamification is kind of a way
21:26to make you keep engaging with it once
21:28you you know once you're using that
21:30utility sometimes hey here's the reason
21:32to keep coming back this app even when
21:33you don't necessarily like you new you
21:35want to go to that particular Pete's but
21:37hey here's another reason to open the
21:38app now we're Pokemon go is an app
21:40defied game is is that the primary way
21:43you're playing engaging with it is to
21:44play a game it's to go out there and
21:46catch an pokemon and you know be the out
21:48there with your friends with this center
21:50around the gameplay mechanics where the
21:53app part comes in is you end up finding
21:57people to chat and hang out with find
21:59places to go get a drink or go get food
22:01through the gameplay mechanisms and so
22:04it accomplishes the goal of the utility
22:06app by being a game interface and I
22:09think that if you look at just App
22:10Store's in general game content is
22:13almost always at the top of pay
22:16free and top grossing charts so you look
22:18at these top charts and games are so
22:19dominant that I think what we're gonna
22:21see is more games that end up
22:24accomplishing the goals of utility
22:26applications by keeping you hooked on
22:28the gameplay mechanisms and that is key
22:30because if you look at the historical
22:32trends how did games monetize literally
22:36predominantly advertising or in-app
22:39purchases and I think Pokemon Go has
22:42actually introduced a third new channel
22:44it's too early to say whether it'll work
22:46or not but it's an interesting trend to
22:48observe which is you know it's yes they
22:50have in-app purchases today but on top
22:52of that they can get retailers to pay
22:55for those in that purchases versus
22:57consumers paying for in-app purchases I
22:59think it's so fascinating that the ad is
23:02the in-app purchase is the like product
23:05for enterprises the it's kind of like a
23:08sponsored post on Facebook or Twitter in
23:10that but more actionable right no and
23:12and it's not a Oh an item of content
23:15that's like what you see in the Facebook
23:18feed but oh this one's paid for and a
23:20little bit more professionally done you
23:21like you can kind of tell the difference
23:23between you know regular content from
23:25real people and you know professionally
23:27made content that ends up being
23:28sponsored or like just put up on a
23:29Facebook page know the lure that you
23:32deploy is the same that this bar or
23:33restaurant would deploy and this is
23:34happening so quickly today they
23:36announced it just got released in Japan
23:38the game for the first time and
23:40McDonald's partnered with them and their
23:42gyms now at nearly 3,000 stores in Japan
23:45so it's it's already just weeks after it
23:47launched a new partner before the
23:49biggest you know food companies in the
23:50world and and that's just one of many
23:53examples I'm sure we'll see down the
23:54road yeah the reason this is important
23:57is if you look again historically the
23:58in-app purchases it really came from
24:00what they call the whale users which are
24:02less than like point five percent of
24:04what the app gate users are and now all
24:07of a sudden here you have actually
24:08changed who is buying those in that
24:10purchases which is the retailers in the
24:12stores just to go back beyond Pokemon go
24:15and some of the bigger picture trends
24:16here but first of all there's this funny
24:18thing yeah we talked about some of these
24:19phenomenon that's like this it's to me
24:21it's a promise what Jane McGonigal has
24:23long talked about about this massive
24:24super gaming like public gaming people
24:26playing together that's only possible
24:29every single person has a phone a
24:30computer in their pocket and that goes
24:32to your idea Kyle of this light VR and
24:34where it fits in this tier of different
24:35types of VR but the question that I have
24:37is that we are still not really
24:39deploying every aspect of the phone in
24:41the u.s. the way like for example we
24:43chat does in China where they're using
24:44like the sensors and every you know we
24:46talk about it like you know killing the
24:47Buffalo and using all the parts and so
24:49and one of the complaints I've heard is
24:51that there's not a you know people
24:51aren't really using sensors for safety
24:53so for example you know the New York
24:55they issued a tweet saying we know
24:58you've got to catch them all but stay
24:59behind the yellow line on highways that
25:02say don't Pokemon and drive what's gonna
25:05happen as our environment becomes more
25:07Sun certified and sensors are embedded
25:09everywhere and as our phone begins to
25:12really these apps really begin to use
25:14more than just the camera how is it
25:16gonna change like how do you guys see
25:18the sort of spinning it forward the
25:19panopticon is going to be real so this
25:21idea of a camera where you have a live
25:25view at any spot in the real world at
25:27any time that's essentially becoming
25:29possible and we actually saw this
25:30recently with the attempted coup in
25:33Turkey where if you're on the Facebook
25:35website you can go to Facebook live and
25:38look at a map view of Turkey and
25:40instantly see thousands of individuals
25:43live broadcasting you know something
25:48that I've tweeted about is how I kind of
25:50wish Google still owned antek because
25:52you look at all the people turning on
25:54this white AR mode in Pokemon go
25:56there's millions upon millions of people
25:58snapping photos at every single time of
26:00day of densely populated urban areas so
26:03you have this you could theoretically
26:05have this amazing data set of live
26:08images of basically anywhere that's you
26:12know in a major city in the United
26:14States and you know now that's only now
26:16globally around the world which is just
26:17like insane to think about Pokemon go
26:20asn't kind of put this out there yet but
26:22something I think could see conceivably
26:24do is make the location data available
26:27via some kind of API or back-end system
26:29where you could say like where is their
26:31foot traffic in the real world at any
26:34point in time in the day do you remember
26:36reading this article that was published
26:37recently regarding Foursquare's
26:40prediction of Chipotle sales oh yeah
26:42interesting yeah yeah the short version
26:43is using Foursquare data they could
26:45protect that Chipotle sales are going
26:47down just due to the foot traffic alone
26:48and if you imagine a world where some
26:51company or someone can measure the foot
26:53track of every person that has a phone
26:54in their pocket that's incredibly
26:56valuable for a number of reasons
26:57logistical efore like travel of course
26:59but also sales it's it's very powerful
27:01data yeah and this is similar to kind of
27:04the case being made for having like low
27:06orbit satellites that constantly collect
27:08imagery people have talked about how
27:10heads hedge funds could make bets on
27:12different markets by just looking at how
27:14many cars are in a Walmart parking lot
27:16at any given time this is now you have
27:18that for not for cars where it's kind of
27:20unknown how many people are in it and
27:21what they're buying but explicitly what
27:23are individuals doing in what stores are
27:25they doing to what and when yeah and I
27:27think coming back to the sensor point
27:29you know you're already seeing
27:31applications in retail and I can tell
27:33you I just recently moved and I had a
27:35hassle doing furniture shopping because
27:37you're taking measurements and then you
27:39have to figure out whether the color
27:40coordinates match IKEA is rolling out a
27:43catalog they already I don't know how
27:44many of you have seen the YouTube
27:45trailer but if you've seen it it's very
27:47much like the Pokemon Go app all I need
27:50to do is show the IKEA app around the
27:52room and if I choose with your phone
27:55with my phone and if I choose a couch it
27:57can actually place the couch in the roof
28:00so instead of little pocket monsters you
28:02have like a couch I'm gonna get a sense
28:05for hey is this a real good fit within
28:07my room or not so just imagine how much
28:09easier they would make the shopping now
28:10coming back to the sensor point I think
28:12the key question is how good are the
28:14sensors that they can actually determine
28:16the size of the room and whether the
28:18couch actually fits within the room you
28:21know those are the things which I'm
28:22excited about but I think the potential
28:23is huge you have a child like child
28:25proofing like imagine all the different
28:26layers of interesting things you can do
28:28well yeah I mean some things like child
28:30proofing like it's an arduous task of
28:33finding every plug and everything that
28:34needs to have a little ziplock on it
28:36imagine if you could just take a single
28:37pass with your camera around the room
28:39and it would highlight every single area
28:41that could be childproof yep for me the
28:43most interesting aspect of all of these
28:44from snapchat filters to the Chewbacca
28:47you know phenomenon and Facebook live to
28:50you know the the fact that this is as
28:52Brian mentioned earlier not just
28:54nostalgia but there's a certain
28:55animated quality to it that we're
28:57expressing ourselves through these new
28:59types of other tarts and I think it's
29:01really amazing because I think it
29:02actually allows us to express ourselves
29:03in new completely different ways and so
29:05I'm really interested in sir the
29:06psychological components of what happens
29:08the autistic child being is not just a
29:10case it's a really interesting example
29:12of what happens I mean Chewbacca masks
29:14later like there's interesting things
29:15that happen when you're able to detach
29:17yourself or attach yourself to these
29:19layers and mass and filters yeah and
29:22this is where Pokemon know you look at
29:24snapchat we use them just for selfies
29:26today but you know it's rumored that
29:28snapchat is looking at you know and it's
29:30not going what capacity but looking at
29:32the idea of making their own AR glasses
29:33and why would they do that well we're
29:36already expressing yourselves every day
29:37150 million daily active users
29:39expressing ourselves with these filters
29:40that apply these 3d models and textures
29:43to our faces because we think that that
29:44reflects our personality at that point
29:46just to show you like selfies are not
29:47toys in them meaning so imagine though
29:50if you know these glasses took off I
29:52assume that they would make you
29:53something that's cheap but just good
29:55enough where you could say here's here's
29:58the filter that I wear throughout my day
29:59today I'm feeling kind of Moody I'm
30:02gonna wear the one that makes my eyes
30:03look pure black my skin you got to tell
30:10you use your words say I don't feel good
30:11today yeah it's like you know I'm
30:13feeling rebellious so I give myself a
30:14mohawk haircut well what if you could
30:16just do that temporarily instead which
30:19I'm dying to do and then anyone with
30:20these glasses would say oh this that's
30:22how this person is doing today because
30:23they chose that as their avatar for you
30:25know this yeah for many hours what's so
30:27fascinating about snapchat is they they
30:29have such a unique opportunity actually
30:30pull this off whereas Google glass was
30:32super dorky and nerdy and obviously not
30:35built for like a younger audience people
30:38would argue that and this is not we
30:40haven't talked about this in great
30:40detail we don't have time to that Google
30:42glass would probably find its promise in
30:44the enterprise because I know when we
30:45were working on that sort of thing back
30:46in the day at Parc one of the theses was
30:48that you can actually layer on really
30:51deep expertise into people in the field
30:53for repairing copy machines or other
30:55ideas and so the notion that you can
30:57have a centralized expert and then
30:58disseminate that knowledge through all
30:59these different people in the field and
31:01democratize and distribute expertise in
31:04the enterprise application of something
31:06like Google glass is very fascinating
31:07and I think we haven't even talked about
31:09beyond the retail like going really if
31:11you are into wind aside for another time
31:12yeah it's one last question as investors
31:16and and you know Brian is someone who
31:17curates a very interesting community and
31:20who stays on the cutting edge of
31:21interesting trends and things that are
31:23coming up how do you tell the difference
31:25between a fad and and just something
31:28that's here to stay and how do how do we
31:30know yeah I mean if I knew the exact
31:32answer to that I should be investing in
31:34companies I think a lot of it is like
31:36what is the behavior that people already
31:38do or what is the goal that they're
31:40trying to achieve and does this solution
31:41does this solve this solution and
31:44significantly more efficient way so
31:45let's take you know snapchat is one
31:48example of course it looked like a toy
31:49in the beginning and it was very simple
31:51it was ephemeral photos and then
31:53ephemeral videos and then quickly it
31:55started to become the really the best
31:57place to see what your friends are up to
31:58and what they're doing and in many ways
32:00replace some of the behaviors on
32:02Instagram or Facebook my personal
32:04favorite application of snapchats
32:05actually the media side which is the
32:07snapchat stories I used to about this
32:09like years ago and when they first came
32:11out because they're doing something
32:11really interesting with the valley and I
32:13got to see a whole new view into Diwali
32:15in India on snapchat which I would never
32:17have seen yeah and so snapchat is is
32:19involved significantly and of course in
32:20hindsight you can see the opportunity
32:22and you could see where it's going but
32:23at the time is very difficult to tell
32:25that snapchat would be useful and
32:27meaningful but they really stayed the
32:28course and built a place that focused on
32:30the camera and made the camera about the
32:33cameras what was you know that was the
32:35way you communicated that was the way
32:36you share that was the way you expressed
32:37yourself it was a very different
32:39experience than you know Facebook and
32:41Instagram and then if you look at the to
32:43experience in terms of creating content
32:45there's so much more friction involved
32:46in creating content on any other mobile
32:48platform primarily with the exception of
32:51maybe Twitter but Twitter's are so very
32:52different it's like a more text-based
32:53kind of conversational platform so for
32:57me a lot of it's like what's the utility
32:58that it provides and is it significantly
33:00different and does it go with the trends
33:02of where the consumers are going so in
33:04this case like mobile over time there's
33:06going to be a our platforms changing the
33:08way that companies and people interact
33:09so utility the frictionless nastácia
33:13NAND is it kind of going it doesn't have
33:16sort of a headwind underneath it as well
33:17if these are you know many of the
33:19elements we've touched upon on our
33:20netbook affects cases as well
33:23I think fundamentally Pokemon go as a
33:25game right I think we need to remember
33:28that the IP is strong and there are
33:30games that have sustained for many years
33:32like the League of Legends is still
33:33quite popular yeah so I think the key to
33:36longevity for a game like this is the
33:39it's a concept from mmo's typically it's
33:42called the endgame yeah so it's this
33:43idea that an I knew you hinted at this
33:46earlier of how there's multiple phases
33:47of gameplay the beginning of Pokemon go
33:49you're just kind of catching pokémon and
33:51leveling up and figuring it out towards
33:52the end of the game once you're very
33:53high level and all of your Pokemon are
33:55high level you're trying to capture
33:56these gyms and you're battling people so
33:59in the world of save world Warcraft
34:00which is kind of the definitive MMO this
34:03is massively multiplayer online games
34:05there's an end game state for that where
34:08you've done all of the questing you know
34:10you're going on adventures with friends
34:11and then you shift to what's called
34:13raiding so you're going into these very
34:15high-level difficult dungeons with up to
34:1740 people at the same time and it's all
34:20about like getting the very best loot
34:22from these super difficult enemies and
34:23if you look World of Warcraft has done
34:26the best job of periodically adding more
34:28and incredible increasingly difficult
34:29and game content for its most hardcore
34:31players and this is what has kept it
34:33millions of people paying $15 a month
34:35for north of a decade now pokemon it
34:39right now you get to the gyms and if
34:42you're not super competitive it's
34:44actually difficult to battle at the gyms
34:46and so we just could actually impact
34:48engagement but they talk about all if
34:51they do all the product enhancements
34:52that you were talking about like the
34:53Pokemon Trading right they need to add
34:56alternatives or different ways to engage
34:58with the end game in order to keep
35:00people play but in either way in a
35:01nutshell I would say I think instead of
35:04just focusing on the game what's more
35:05exciting about this app is all the
35:07external transit tells us about other
35:09applications and I think that's what
35:11makes it more exciting we could keep
35:12talking about this and playing you guys
35:14thank you for joining the a 6nc podcast
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