00:00welcome to the age sixteen Z podcast I'm
00:02Michael Copeland in this segment of the
00:05Stanford's Bethany Coates and a 16 Z's
00:07large doll guard talk about how he found
00:10a place in technology with a
00:12non-technical background and why as
00:15uncomfortable as it may be for himself
00:17and others dalgaard always opts to
00:19discuss hard truths from the get-go the
00:22discussion you'll hear happened with the
00:24participation of a roomful of military
00:25veterans were part of the breakline
00:27program an education and hiring
00:30initiative designed to help veterans
00:31transition into post military careers
00:34okay everybody it's it's really my
00:38pleasure to have my friend Marcel right
00:42here to to chat with us today Lars is a
00:46Stanford alum he founded and ran the
00:50company success factors which he
00:52ultimately sold tests AP and he's now an
00:54investor here at Andreessen Horowitz and
00:57we're gonna have a wide-ranging
01:00conversation and then we'll we'll open
01:01it up for some Q&A as well
01:03Laura's I'd love for you to share with
01:07with this group we have a group of
01:09distinguished veterans here and and you
01:12came to the tea industry but you weren't
01:14a technologist that's correct and so can
01:17you talk about your introduction to the
01:19field and what you brought to the field
01:21and how you also shored up some of the
01:24skill sets that maybe you didn't have
01:25you know to be successful
01:27yeah so first of all let me just say I
01:28want to thank you all for your service
01:29for the country very very much known I'm
01:32sure you heard a lot but I don't think
01:34in here enough so yeah so I'm also an
01:36immigrant I came here about 17 years ago
01:39and I I literally knew nothing about
01:41tech but I had a huge love for it huge
01:43love for it and it what's very clear is
01:45that there's nothing in the world than
01:47the future that's not gonna be done with
01:48tech and software so you know looking
01:50around where you are and where you are
01:52in your life and your career on your age
01:53I think you're perfectly time for it
01:55like this is that there's not a late
01:57time for this and I thought I had missed
01:58the internet it was 30-something and I
02:00knew the true thought I'd missed it we
02:02no matter how little you know about tech
02:04you can really get to know tech people
02:06have all these insecurities that
02:07somebody's told them in middle school or
02:09whatever like honestly like if you have
02:11a passion and you have an idea on a
02:13you can go there you can get to know a
02:15lot of it yourself through proxy but
02:16guess what if you're not a programmer
02:18you can hire some and they're amazing
02:20people are partnering with leaders
02:22because no company no matter how great
02:24it is can you get anywhere without a
02:25leader so one thing that I admire about
02:28you is that you have really deep
02:31philosophical opinions about talent and
02:34how to evaluate talent and how to bring
02:36out the best in people and and you have
02:38strong opinions about that so I'll just
02:41start with grounding it in what you now
02:43know as real leaders of people yeah it
02:45can't underestimate how important that
02:47is in Silicon Valley and what you know
02:48about leading people and how you have
02:50understood that and you've obviously you
02:52didn't you weren't born leading people
02:53nobody is but you learned a lot about
02:55the differences and people and different
02:57types of people in different situations
02:58can end up doing very different things
03:00one of the biggest issues I run into in
03:02tech companies no matter how big they
03:04are how successful or how they great
03:05there is there's no time for not having
03:07a real conversation about this is how
03:09you up and this is not gonna work
03:11let's figure this out together like that
03:13type of a conversation it's a
03:15conversation that most leaders in
03:16Silicon Valley afraid to have because
03:18they've never experienced it and so they
03:20had all the good stuff like I remember
03:22one guy saying it perfect to me he was
03:23so honest it was just grown up in these
03:25fabulous companies that never had
03:26anything wrong and he said if I go into
03:28fire someone they end up coming out with
03:32and he really meant it and and that just
03:35would never happen for you guys right
03:37Daymond you you know what it's like to
03:38say this wasn't working and this is
03:40a problem and this is gonna break down
03:42what we're doing if you don't fix this
03:44like immediately and this let's put this
03:46put an action plan together how you
03:47gonna fix this otherwise you can't be
03:48part of this I want to say it and go for
03:50frankly the best part is the humanity of
03:52it you owe it to the person and they
03:54know themselves if you do it with
03:55respect when you're done like you don't
03:58have to sit there and put them down you
03:59just say listen this literally doesn't
04:00work like let's figure out what to do
04:02don't you agree then you're treating
04:04them with respect and it's gonna be an
04:05amazing experience for them coming out
04:07of that meeting so I'd love for you to
04:09talk a little bit more when you're
04:10evaluating an interview well I think
04:12that what happens in an interview
04:13situation what happens that's very
04:15important is that it's to me it's an
04:17emotional contract mathematically it's
04:19one interview I'm gonna meet with this
04:21person 600 times and that's five years
04:23oh maybe it's 2% more important I think
04:27in that first interview because you
04:29create an emotional contract with that
04:31person forever and there's no in the
04:33world that can't go back to that first
04:35interview and remember executive well
04:37you said this and I said that you know
04:39you can go through all these battles
04:41together and then when you come out on
04:42the other side it still goes back to
04:44well remember when you hired me it's
04:46something very funny that hasn't really
04:47played up in books and in but it really
04:50so you're in New York Times interview
04:52one of the things that you said it was
04:54something like like what have you
04:56learned from your mom I don't ask it in
04:58the first minute because then it's
05:00useless I ask it like 20 minutes in
05:02because you've built some rapport and
05:04they know who you are and how real you
05:06are and it's that that's what you bring
05:07into this game you're like this is how
05:09we play here like you set that stage for
05:1120 minutes and so now when you ask that
05:13question you know it's not a silly
05:14question they know they really got to
05:16think about it and what it means is for
05:18me I got to try and turn on the motion
05:20so it's as real as I can as transparence
05:22I can and certainly in business because
05:23it's so frigid and nebulas and weird I
05:26just want to bring out the real humanity
05:28and the reality of everyone we waste so
05:29much of our life at work it's probably
05:31the thing we do the most and so you want
05:33to make a fake and like nebulas and
05:35weird and and and protocols that don't
05:38funny thing is if you bring it there
05:39with those interviews and the way that
05:41you can understand human beings what
05:42happens on the other side of that the
05:44commitment you get for that I had three
05:46different commanders from the for the
05:48seals come and speak to us and
05:50specifically in their case I said I
05:51don't hear we're about weapons and stuff
05:53like that I only want to talk about how
05:54you relied on each other and that's what
05:56they talked about and that was kind of
05:57the discipline that we brought to the
05:59game let's switch gears a little bit so
06:01I heard a little birdie told me that
06:03you're called The Closer andreessen
06:06horowitz I'm just wondering if you could
06:07shed some light on why that's your
06:09reputation I don't know why that made me
06:11sweat no I think you know it's like what
06:18what I'm really good at is being very
06:21crisp and what this could become and why
06:23I believe in the people about doing it
06:25if I believe in them if I don't I can't
06:26fake it so I want to switch gears again
06:28and talk about moments in your life
06:30where everyone was saying no to you when
06:32you were trying to get a job and then
06:33when you were trying to get funding for
06:35success factors and how many visas
06:36turned you down 7373 VC's turned you
06:41so you had to recall me oh so you had to
06:45push really hard through a lot of
06:47adversity and that's gonna happen with
06:50the veterans in the room we are going
06:51out trying to pursue their dreams that's
06:53a very real issue yeah how do you handle
06:55that I think that that ties into widget
06:57which company I mean if you start a
06:59company it's very different I understand
07:01that most how many people are think
07:02about it's not a lot right here you
07:03think about joining a company how many
07:05other thing about a starting one four or
07:08five - okay so there it's a lot
07:11different right and what I would
07:12strongly recommend like on like the most
07:16extreme thing I could give you as a
07:18benchmark for is pick something you
07:20really believe in if you're not starting
07:22a company which is the majority I would
07:25never be apologetic in an interview
07:28around you know like I'm not a tech
07:30person I'm not like I can just see it
07:32because I've interviewed a bunch of
07:34people that had your background and I
07:36saw some you know an apology's and then
07:38also they're sort of like I'm really
07:40strong when it comes to the military
07:41stuff don't even think about it
07:42but on this other stuff sure you're the
07:44boss whatever it is and like that will
07:47just not put you in the position that
07:49you need to be in so I would have the
07:51natural confidence of I know
07:53leadership but I'm interests in this
07:56industry and this is why and I've done
07:58my research and this is what I know
07:59about you and this is what I know about
08:01the industry if you can begin to create
08:03a dialogue in that interview around this
08:05is how leadership in my mind happens
08:08what do you think leadership is how do
08:10you think about leadership in his
08:10company cuz that's got to be your super
08:13strength leadership we have some amazing
08:16people in the room and I'd love for you
08:18to hear from some of them and I'd like
08:19to open up to all of you to ask a couple
08:21of questions yeah I did a lot of
08:24offensive cyber security and I designed
08:27about kids but I was interested when I
08:30was reading your bio about you know how
08:32you were like you said youngest CEO by
08:3413 years yeah I want to hear like how
08:38you got to I mean I love the tech side
08:41but how did you get there in the first
08:43part I mean at Unilever in that company
08:47I was running an industrial cleaning
08:50business in Europe that was everything
08:53from the ground up so the
08:54the toilets all this very unsexy
08:56but for me being 24 or whatever I was it
08:59was like amazing to run this global
09:01business so I was ecstatic and there was
09:03a guy who's by a decade older living in
09:06Switzerland and he was an acquisition
09:07and he was doing all the floor because
09:10there's big cleaning machines you've
09:11seen him in a airport and so of course
09:13it's clear that those two businesses
09:15belong together but there was both so
09:16substantial that nobody had had the
09:19courage to put them together and I met
09:21with him one day in Switzerland where
09:22his office was mine was in Holland and I
09:24said why we put these things together
09:25does it make sense for a customer to
09:28call you when they want to clean the
09:29floor and me when they come on a clean
09:30the walls it's like insane
09:31and his first question was the absolute
09:34wrong question was who's gonna lead it
09:35so then we worked up six months this
09:37check Canty was we put it all together
09:39we went to present it to the board we
09:41went through the whole thing was like
09:42the beautiful thing we had a new logo
09:43the whole thing is gonna merge you know
09:45and I sort of did my thing and he did
09:46his thing and then they asked who's
09:48gonna run it and then I said he is and
09:50I'll never forget the CEOs eyes and then
09:53I got up to leave and I was like I gotta
09:55go figure out what the hell I do now and
09:56I didn't get it further than picking on
09:58my back and the CEO and his CEO said can
10:01you stay for a minute the boardroom is
10:02over and they're like we haven't decided
10:06you're gonna be the first CEO that's
10:08under 30 years old in our company
10:11I can cry right now it was like oh my
10:13god right I didn't expect him to get him
10:16so political a nothing is moving but it
10:18was like they got it like they
10:21understood how much leadership this was
10:23it's third largest company in the world
10:25they have three and twenty thousand
10:26employees and I was the youngest CEO at
10:2826 there by 13 years I wore Nnamani suit
10:31because I look so young and all the
10:33meetings I had to like try and look
10:35older but what I never minced words on
10:38was the truth in what I had seen and
10:40then I had a ferocious appetite like at
10:42understanding the unit economics of how
10:45every business worked it's what you'll
10:47heal a lot from CEOs - are adjectives
10:50that are completely meaningless like we
10:52grew a lot and we had a hell of a and
10:54it's insane what we're doing and
10:56crushing all that nonsense it's just
10:58noise in my head so I'm like just feed
11:00me like a CSV file just give me that and
11:02the point is it's all relative to
11:05everyone what I would do in those
11:08break the whole thing apart until it
11:10made sense in my own head I had to do
11:11that well I don't I can't understand how
11:15you're not selling is it let me go back
11:17to where it starts so it starts for the
11:18pipeline how many how are you grading
11:21this pipeline so that it's valuable
11:23because the whole pipeline can't be the
11:25same the early leads in the beginning of
11:27the pipeline surely can't be as valuable
11:28as the one you just met with us about to
11:30close don't we have to somehow
11:31mathematically figure that out and then
11:33grade that and how do you get the leads
11:35like did you get them from like some
11:38random thing that somebody just got idea
11:39one day that I want to buy this and then
11:41you they they they wanted it or can you
11:43actually understand how they keep coming
11:44back so we can repeat it those are the
11:46questions are asked which are not
11:48particularly intelligent questions
11:49they're curious questions they're like I
11:51don't get how this works so another
11:53thing is find the truth even if
11:55it's not there like so in this case I
11:57would go to these meetings and German is
11:58not my first language so I just drove
12:00around Germany you know I'd get up at 5
12:02in the morning and I would just like
12:04drive 2 and kilometers an hour up to
12:06like see one of our breweries or go and
12:08see one of our like a coca-cola plant
12:10whatever the hell it was and I would
12:12just spend two weeks meeting every
12:15single significant customer and I'd let
12:17you I had no clue what I was talking
12:18about but I just listened to them and
12:20then I would ask the questions that I
12:22just gotten in the last six meetings but
12:24this guy said that and I mean this other
12:26guy said is that right for you too
12:27well kind of because this is different
12:29in this and this is different in that
12:30and so I built up this huge repository
12:32of what's actually happening and then at
12:35the end people actually would like to be
12:37listened to but sinking when they spend
12:38money with you and then you say oh by
12:39the way if I changed all that would you
12:41buy more maybe I'm trying to be as
12:43practical as I can around how I did
12:45those things and then I'd come back to
12:47the office I just sit with this whole
12:48group then I presented my new strategy
12:49and so I does that even answer the
12:51question I think so so that's kind of
12:54the approach right it's just like it's
12:56like yeah exactly and you're gonna be
12:58disappointed many times I'm not telling
13:00you that now you have the answer and you
13:01can just go run with it
13:03like it's tough to do that but the real
13:05deal is it works even more important
13:07than that it makes you feel fantastic
13:09and you show up every morning with
13:10endless energy this year you know you're
13:13doing the right thing and the other
13:14thing that happens is the people in the
13:15room they just want to be part of it
13:18like oh my god this is so refreshing
13:21should let's take one more question any
13:25Heather I mean you're speaking to us
13:28really yeah my mom taught me a lot you
13:41know I'm I'm beyond grateful to my mom
13:45and I'm paying it back every day in many
13:47different ways my mom very early on is
13:49just very focused on like her key
13:52sentences stuff around judgment and bias
13:55and all these types of things and her
13:57view is it's ignorance yeah I'm very
13:59lucky with her I'm very very lucky
14:01there's no doubt about it I mean I'm
14:03lucky with my dad my dad is all ethics
14:05you know and so and very hard work how
14:07did you find this insight into humanity
14:10how do you how do you have that clarity
14:12yeah I you know I think I just continue
14:15to like I used to use an excuse of
14:19something very traumatic things that
14:20happen in my life later and everybody
14:22I'd tell that they're like you
14:25had that always and so I don't know I
14:28always just go to truth and I'm just
14:30amazed at what truth does even though
14:32it's hard I just I go a place where I
14:35literally might brain on my heart or
14:36wherever the hell it is somewhere in
14:37here where it hurts the most
14:39I just go there and it's like we've
14:42trained ourselves to stay away from that
14:44place but I go straight where it hurts
14:46the most and I talk about that and it
14:49never fails all these CEOs they're very
14:51very successful running public companies
14:53based look in the ground they take
14:56whatever they had written and they're
14:58like I want to I see you and I Oratia
15:00you know like that's just what happens
15:02when people go after humanity it's just
15:04what happens and so it's so damn
15:06rewarding but it never gets easy please
15:11thank lares with me for joining
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