00:00hi this is Chris Dixon this is a 16z
00:02podcast i'm here with christina Macondo
00:05who's these co-founder and CEO ringly
00:07which is a wearable computing company
00:08and we're gonna talk about wearable
00:10computing today so hi Christina hey good
00:13things so what so what do you think's
00:16exciting now I mean people are excited
00:17about the you know Apple of course is
00:20rumored to be coming out with a watch
00:23Samsung has had a watch Google who did a
00:25lot of made a lot of announcements
00:26around Google now you obviously are
00:29working on jewelry you know what it
00:33seems like a very exciting time in
00:34wearables and so you know what are you
00:37yeah I mean I'm excited to see what
00:39Apple does as I think a lot of us are
00:41but I think the most exciting thing for
00:43me is you know what these devices can do
00:46in the future I think we're just
00:47scratching the surface right now so
00:49there's a couple spaces emerging one in
00:51the Fitness one in the health US were a
00:54little bit more focused on fashion and
00:55communication and there's a couple with
00:59ID that I think is really really
01:00interesting something that we want to
01:02explore a little bit more as well so you
01:03think it's useful to kind of segment it
01:04like this like it seems like people are
01:06saying apples gonna be focusing on
01:08health obviously there's you know we're
01:10investors here in jawbone there's things
01:12like Fitbit it sounds like you have sort
01:15of a classification thing the good news
01:17is I don't think there will be a
01:19one-size-fits-all because again you're
01:21talking about fashion and even with
01:24watches maybe you wear one maybe
01:26somebody has one watch that they wear
01:27all the time but they like to change it
01:30up they like to change you know fast you
01:32think do you think the average person
01:34will have multiple wearable devices I
01:35think so yeah and I think that they'll
01:37be buying devices again in the same sort
01:40of life cycle that they buy clothing so
01:42when the new device comes out that
01:44season they'll want to run and buy it
01:47they'll want to wait by the winter
01:48version and the longer by the spring
01:49version the summer version and so on and
01:51so you think they'll be so maybe it'll
01:53use a health device or like a fitness
01:55device while you're running you'll have
01:57a communication device like ringly
02:00cocktail party party and then you'll
02:03have do you think they'll be sort of
02:04multiple like that high level you sort
02:06of said there's Fitness there's
02:08communication what else do you say ID so
02:11using your wearable as maybe so there's
02:13another product in the market called the
02:15Nimmi bracelet that measures your your
02:17pulse and your heart rate okay do
02:18uniquely identify you so when you walk
02:20into a room the setting sort of match
02:23you know your your profile essentially
02:26and you can use that for payment how
02:28does it so it just like technically that
02:30the the wristband communicates with what
02:33your phone or with your phone and then
02:36any devices in your space
02:38I see the ideas okay so the idea is
02:40Internet of Things lights everything is
02:44speaking presumably by Bluetooth or
02:46something and your wristband comes in
02:47IDs you and changes the mood or the
02:50settings or something okay unlocks your
02:52doors things like that that's pretty
02:54cool you don't think that will just be
02:55built into your watch or your phone I
02:57mean you know it's all speculative right
02:59now you know we don't know what they're
03:00going to do but I'd like it I'd like it
03:03to be all built in and what if this like
03:04like one view of all this is like it's
03:06sort of gimmicky like that not not
03:08talking about ringly but let's say the
03:09Samsung watch like a lot of the stuff is
03:11sort of gimmicky and you know is it is
03:13it a technology looking for an
03:15application do people really want to
03:17have the lighting change when they move
03:19into a room don't we stare at our phones
03:24enough to barely want to have like the
03:25watch right for us it was more about
03:28solving a problem so I think if
03:30companies take that approach I think
03:32you're gonna start to see a lot of
03:33interesting things again with us it's
03:36it's being of being less tied to your
03:38phone and and being more present in
03:41situations but getting those short bits
03:42of information that you absolutely need
03:44as opposed to just packing something
03:48with all this functionality because you
03:49can yeah it's interesting like you kind
03:51of taking - maybe just some people to
03:54know your what your device does is it it
03:56lights up with different colors and
03:57vibrations depending on like if you're
03:59you know important your boss is calling
04:01you or your kid is texting you or
04:04something right and so the idea is
04:06actually to reduce the information
04:08overload and not be staring your phone
04:10the whole time and right and to be able
04:12to manage your notifications so we're
04:14getting so many notifications right now
04:15we're very inundated I don't think that
04:18Apple does a great job with managing
04:20them and so we're building a platform
04:22where you can manage all those
04:23notifications and you deem what's most
04:25important to you yes I think like a lot
04:27like to say if you look at the Samsung
04:28watch it's basically that they're their
04:31idea is let's just take the phone yep
04:32and shrink it and remove some features
04:34and put on your wrist crazy days yeah it
04:39really feels driven by the platform as
04:41opposed to driven by the use case right
04:43exactly because I think you know big
04:45technology companies are trying to go
04:47for the platform play yeah when you go
04:50back and look at let's take touch
04:51computing is an example there were all
04:52these companies in the 90s everything
04:55from the Apple Newton to there's a
04:57company called NGO that raised a lot of
04:59money and was high profile and they were
05:02excited about tablets and sort of what
05:04we do now with iPhones and things and it
05:05turned out just to be way too early and
05:07then actually there was probably like an
05:09opposite backlash everyone got very
05:11cynical about it and a lot of people
05:12were cynical about the iPhone and then
05:14it turned out of course to work
05:15fantastically well and now it's you know
05:18the one of the major computing paradigms
05:19so one question with wearables I have is
05:22are we in the kind of 90s or in the
05:242000s with touch computing like in other
05:26words will this be the first wave and it
05:29turns out because the batteries and the
05:31technology and just the platforms and
05:33things just aren't ready for it that you
05:35know it's the Apple Newton or will it
05:38turn out to be the iPhone I think you
05:40know everyone wants to sort of make
05:42their wearable play right now so you're
05:44seeing a lot of innovation happen and I
05:47think that sparks a lot of creativity
05:49and and makes these things possible
05:52again I think we're just scratching the
05:54surface even if Apple comes out with
05:57something you know battery technology is
05:59such that if you want to power a screen
06:02and if you want to do all these things
06:03you need a device that's large so with
06:07us you know we we made the decision to
06:09take out a screen and to communicate in
06:11other ways to be able to make the device
06:13smaller and more discreet so I think you
06:16know it's similar to how a lot of these
06:17products that are coming out that aren't
06:19that are designed a little bit you know
06:22more masculine or or use a lot of
06:24plastic parts and it that part reminds
06:27me of the early 90s when websites first
06:30came out and you know web sites just
06:33weren't designed well and now finally
06:35people are designing things that are
06:37beautiful and I think that's an
06:40important part to that we're missing
06:41it's also like a lot of these things
06:43have kind of system-wide network effects
06:44and what I mean by that is like so it
06:48could turn out that just having a watch
06:50today is like sort of cool but when you
06:52have a watch and by the way everything
06:54around us is also networked our lights
06:57are or you know thermostat is other
07:00people are we have beacons everywhere
07:03you have software tying it all together
07:05it could be that you know that you kind
07:07of need a lot of those pieces together
07:09to make the thing useful right so it's
07:12sort of liked it like it's a lot like
07:13the Internet in the sense of if you were
07:14the first person to have a computer and
07:16your friend had a computer it's kind of
07:17cool to other files but it's a lot more
07:19interesting when everyone has one and
07:21then you know developers come and create
07:24new interesting things I always think
07:26about like in the internet if you went
07:29back to 1993 or something people and you
07:32ask them what you do with when you
07:33network computers they would sort of say
07:35the examples they give her things you
07:36did prior to the internet so they would
07:38say you could copy files and you could
07:40send email and things that they were
07:41used to doing with 'but with two
07:42computers tied together and then of
07:44course it took 10 plus years for people
07:46to invent Wikipedia and Twitter and
07:48YouTube and all these other great things
07:50and similarly like what will probably
07:52happen I think with wearables is like
07:54wearables you have Internet of Things
07:55all these things will kind of come
07:56together you start to lay the groundwork
07:57there'll be certain early adopter use
07:59cases but then what we really exciting
08:01is when the developers come once you
08:03have that network once you have that
08:04network effect then the developers come
08:06and they start inventing all this crazy
08:07stuff which of course we can't think of
08:09now because it took 10 years of the
08:10Internet to even come up with law these
08:12things right it's just you need to have
08:13it out there and the whole thing develop
08:15and have lots of smart people thinking
08:16about it yeah and it's definitely
08:18happening you can just feel it with all
08:19these new devices that are that are
08:21being built in everything becoming
08:23smarter I mean you know from your
08:25thermostat to your coffee pot to your
08:27rings yeah back to the the network
08:29effect the way I see it is there's these
08:32sort of four pillars that that wearables
08:34can connect to one they can connect to
08:36your devices or your phone and they you
08:39know anything that comes through any
08:40notifications that come through in your
08:41phone you can pass them to your device
08:43similarly you can take action on your
08:46device and pass it back to the phone the
08:48second one is the self so wearables can
08:51connect to your body
08:51there's biosensors that
08:53you know test your mood or how many
08:57steps you've taken and then wearables
08:59can also connect to other people so if
09:01I'm wearing a wearable and you're
09:03wearing a wearable we can essentially
09:04know that we're in the same vicinity of
09:06each other and communicate with each
09:08other what not and then the fourth one
09:10which i think is the most interesting is
09:12that it can connect your physical space
09:13as well so like we were talking about
09:16before you know you walk into a room and
09:18it's you know the music starts playing
09:21your favorite station or your you know
09:23your coffee stores and your lights go up
09:25and and your physical space can adapt to
09:28you similarly you can also one of the
09:32things that I'm interested in in beacons
09:33is when you walk into a physical space
09:35you can now get more data on people and
09:37more information so if you think about
09:39e-commerce you know there's so much data
09:42that we were collecting you know when I
09:44used to work at eBay about people that
09:46you just don't have when you go into a
09:48physical store so you can see what
09:50people are buying what sizes they are
09:51what colors they like what not but when
09:54when somebody walks into a store you
09:55have no idea of their behaviors or what
09:58they're doing so now we're we're gonna
09:59be able to capture all this information
10:01to then target customers and and better
10:03their experiences later it's interesting
10:05I've met a few companies recently who
10:07were doing basically a temperature
10:11control inside of large companies using
10:13people's iPhones so it turns out that
10:15you know if a room is empty obviously
10:18you don't need to cool or heat it as
10:19much and then it's basically works
10:22everyone puts in their kind of
10:23temperature preference on their phone
10:24and then it figures out okay the ten
10:25people are here here's the optimal
10:27temperature but it turns out you can
10:28save it's like some astounding number
10:30like twenty percent of energy is using
10:32that oh yeah and they're doing it now
10:37with security and so actually it might
10:39be a case where the enterprise
10:40applications lead the consumer ones
10:43because in the enterprise the company
10:45can control the whole network right they
10:46can reconfigure the whole building at
10:48they can go and give everyone badges and
10:51iPhones and so we're starting to see
10:52that sort of on the security level I
10:55heard insurance companies are giving
10:58everybody fitbit's and jobs that's in
11:00fact so like when we got acquired by
11:02eBay eBay was giving one everyone Fitbit
11:04so it turns out if you're in if you're a
11:06beneath at has I think it's over 500
11:07employees it those companies always
11:10actually self-insurer meaning they pay
11:12for their own like you may see a blue
11:14cross thing on your card but actually
11:15eBay is paying the bill I'm not an
11:17insurance company and so there's a
11:19strong economic incentive for them to
11:20make their workforce healthier I think
11:26it was like partly to be kind of cool
11:27trendy thing but partly yeah there is a
11:29real having long-term financial
11:30incentive for them to make the people
11:32pay people healthier and you know yeah I
11:35mean but imagine that just you know
11:37people walk out of a room and the lights
11:40go off I think I think there's a
11:43reasonable chance that you'll see the
11:45corporate use cases leading like unlike
11:47what we've seen over the last 15 years
11:48in technology which is the consumer has
11:51led to enterprise you know the your
11:53stuff you have at home and your iPhone
11:54and Gmail is much better than stuff you
11:56have at work it may be that with
11:57wearables you see the enterprise cases
11:59leading just because the enterprise
12:00could control everything right yeah same
12:02with Google glass and you know I can
12:04foresee a lot of you know really strong
12:06enterprise yeah there's there's a
12:07there's already some use cases around so
12:09basically if you think of it as there's
12:12these cases where people are repairing
12:14oil rigs and you're looking through the
12:17glass and you're seeing a blueprint of
12:19what you supposed to be doing and
12:20somebody on the other side who's an
12:21expert on repairing that is watching the
12:23video they're also using it in like
12:25medical use cases like that like you can
12:27basically have somebody who's like super
12:29experienced looking through your eyes
12:31and giving you guidance on what to do
12:32it's also cool that you have things like
12:34Kickstarter now right so that it used to
12:36be that just people like us the venture
12:38capitalists were the kind of gatekeepers
12:40and now you have so many other sources
12:42of kind of where these things can spring
12:45up right exactly I mean you raised a
12:47little bit of VC money but not like less
12:49than it was a million dollars or so yep
12:51and then if funding the rest of it
12:54and a lot of in that and you were sort
12:57of you you are probably at the heavy end
13:01of the spectrum in terms of raising
13:02money but a lot of these things just
13:02went straight to Kickstarter exact name
13:05in and hardware you know is expensive
13:07yeah it's it's really hard to be able to
13:09prototype especially I mean for us it
13:12was particularly expensive because we
13:14want to make a device that's really
13:15really really small so manufacturing
13:18these things every time we get a board
13:20it'll be $8,000 so you do need a lot of
13:23capital to be able to do that but it's
13:24definitely much easier now than it's
13:27it's also you can sell directly right
13:29like I you're selling everything which
13:31is you know I think if people that
13:33haven't done retail business before
13:34don't really fit retails like 50 percent
13:35yeah mark which dramatically or more
13:38yeah which dramatically changes the
13:40possibilities I mean you can't you know
13:43which means you if you sell you want to
13:44sell your product 450 bucks you got to
13:46be able make it for 75 you get rid of
13:48retail you can certainly spend almost
13:49twice as much money building it right
13:50right and you don't need the enormous
13:52volumes that you used to to get your
13:54costs down you can sell something
13:56without going to retail on your own site
13:58for a decent cost okay we're out of time
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