00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland and we are here today with Jeff
00:05Jordan and a new hairy heron welcome
00:08thank you great to be here great to be
00:10here Michael so we're gonna talk about
00:12marketplaces and I've talked you guys a
00:15bit about this and and you guys are
00:17noticing that marketplaces as a sort of
00:19general categories growing market prices
00:21online I should say or at least powered
00:23by online are growing much faster than
00:25ecommerce and I just kind of want to
00:28start with like what's going on here I
00:30mean marketplaces have been around since
00:32there were two people one who wanted to
00:34buy something and one who had something
00:36to sell so what are you guys seeing
00:38right now I mean I think that I think
00:40that observation is right we're seeing
00:42the marketplaces just exploding um and I
00:44think one of the reasons is that there
00:46is there are no governor or limitations
00:48on how fast most marketplaces can grow I
00:51mean it's kind of the company most these
00:54marketplaces are virtual and you know
00:57when a good idea comes in there is just
00:59no limit to growth where ecommerce is
01:01dealing with warehouses and product
01:03sourcing and things like that so great
01:05marketplaces you know just you know when
01:07they catch a catch a cord they really
01:09catch a cord and you just seem
01:11absolutely explosive growth and in a ton
01:13of areas so give us an example here
01:15let's start with the marketplace that
01:16you guys are seeing that's growing like
01:18gangbusters you know I'm proud to be on
01:20the air B&B board it's a huge business
01:23it's incredibly rapidly growing business
01:25it's a business with a fanatical
01:27following that helps ya evangelize the
01:30business to their friends and you know
01:32this has you know our investment thesis
01:34when we got into it almost four years
01:36ago was it had the chance to be the kind
01:37of the next-gen eBay and it's lived it's
01:40so far knock woods lived up to that
01:41height well you know a fair bit about
01:43eBay having run one of its largest
01:45divisions there so we want to talk more
01:48about eBay I'm short but are there
01:51consistent themes that you're seeing in
01:53these marketplaces that that we can
01:56start to identify I mean the I mean
01:58first of all I think eBay and Airbnb are
02:01like these have the same genetic makeup
02:03just we know it's the second generation
02:05they're at economic empowerment a cute
02:07quaint idea that with the other
02:09community took and made into a monster
02:12core trust and safety issues that the
02:14firm overcomes but no I mean I think
02:17market play I think they're kind of
02:19almost rules for managing marketplaces I
02:21really recently blogged on this and that
02:23um you know those rules are pretty much
02:25transcend different verticals different
02:28stage businesses and are incredibly
02:30important in managing marketplaces yeah
02:33and even though the core principles are
02:34the same I think like social and mobile
02:37has enabled marketplaces you know the
02:40shopping on marketplaces even faster and
02:42that's probably helped growth as well to
02:44give an example like Airbnb uses social
02:46information identity to sort of build
02:48that trust and safety right and then
02:51mobile helps you shop easier because
02:53it's even more frictionless and
02:54one-click checkout so becoming popular
02:55so those tools have definitely enabled
02:58marketplaces today to grow even faster
03:00yet that velocity and let's let's talk
03:03about mobile for a little bit I mean our
03:04the way that people are availing
03:07themselves of marketplaces different
03:10because of mobile I mean am I on my
03:12phone all day long buying things or book
03:13in a room I think different categories
03:17of marketplaces have been benefited by
03:19mobile all have been benefited by mobile
03:21there's certain that I've been enabled
03:22by mobile people marketplaces when you
03:24know for example when you know you're
03:27ordering groceries the delivery person
03:30has the small computer in their pocket
03:32that enables them not only to see what
03:34to pick but to wear in the store it is
03:37you know the productivity improvements
03:39where the the driver is to pick it up so
03:42there's logistical optimization so and
03:44some mobile is the absolutely enabler in
03:47all other marketplaces though you're
03:49just seeing activity migrate from PCs to
03:54mobile I mean um in almost every
03:56business I'm working in mobile is at
03:58least as large as the PC now and gaining
04:00share rapidly interesting well let's
04:02talk about the components of a good
04:03market place and honor maybe you can you
04:04can outline some of those for us I mean
04:06what what is consistent across these
04:09marketplaces that are growing so quickly
04:10you know Jeff you mentioned trust and
04:12safety reputation etc what are what are
04:15some of those components yeah I think
04:16the big thing about a marketplace is
04:18really there are two continents right
04:19you have the sellers and the buyers so
04:21Frank either usually you see
04:23if there is a long list of fragmented
04:25supply then you know aggregating them
04:28and making the transaction more easier
04:31for the buyer is where the marketplace
04:33really shines so even if you take the
04:34example of grocery you instacart
04:36you know people marketplace is one
04:38component but if you look at the broader
04:39aspect they are partnering with grocery
04:42chains right there Whole Foods is
04:43already a partner with them so they are
04:45enabling grocery chains on one side and
04:47consumers on the other side to be able
04:49to buy the groceries online and then
04:51using the people marketplace to deliver
04:53it within an hour or two right so the
04:57aspects there is building the supply
04:58building the customer demand the buyer
05:01is important to build that liquidity and
05:03then how do you sort of fulfill the
05:05service in a lot of great marketplaces
05:08the the the predecessor was incredibly
05:12inefficient so on eBay it was incredibly
05:15inefficient if you were a collectible
05:16lover to do your collectibles oh right
05:19yeah I told Bob Kegel was an early board
05:22member from benchmark at eBay and he
05:25read the site resonated with him because
05:28he collected duck decoys I believe the
05:30artist it was named Oscar Peterson like
05:33happiness oh yeah but Bob lived in
05:35Michigan and used to have to drive
05:37around to antique stores and collectible
05:40stores you know scattered throughout the
05:42state in search for Oscar Peterson duck
05:45decoys on eBay they came to him and so
05:47it took a what in the analog world an
05:50incredibly inefficient process and made
05:52you know it made it efficient discovery
05:54was efficient global you know supply was
05:57aggregated and is efficiency a lot of
05:59market places are take that inefficient
06:02analog thing and just magically make it
06:04efficient so we certainly see that in
06:06the case of Airbnb you know putting all
06:08these rooms beds treehouses you know you
06:11lose castle boats and are there other
06:16categories that you guys are starting to
06:18see or that you think are ripe because
06:21of the inefficiencies or the the
06:23fragmentation so the mobile-first
06:24marketplaces for example let's take
06:26furniture right the earlier way of
06:28selling was typically on Craigslist and
06:29it's a it's a web you know desktop
06:32application you take a picture with a
06:34photo and you put the cam
06:35and then upload it now mobile you just
06:37take a picture on your phone it's so
06:39easy to upload that picture onto the
06:42 oversee do you want a list so the
06:43friction for the seller as well has
06:45reduced right mobile has enabled that
06:47and then the buyer can also determine
06:50based on proximity on the mobile saying
06:52okay I want to shop around my area and
06:54then use that to sort of make the entire
06:57experience more seamless so that
06:59furniture would be one category you are
07:01also seeing b2b marketplaces like you
07:03know rental equipment a construction
07:07there is also Chris Dixon's theory of
07:10you know comfort of tools and Steve for
07:12the network we're seeing this more in
07:14like event spaces right providing tools
07:17for the suppliers and thereby
07:19aggregating the suppliers and then the
07:20buyers will come to I mean I said open
07:22table was an example of that early on we
07:24sold tools because we needed to digitize
07:27the restaurants inventory our entry
07:28strategies would get the restaurant
07:30because we didn't have a network when
07:31the company started was to give them
07:33tools once they had the tools we were
07:36able subsequently well down the road to
07:38then send diners to them and that's
07:40that's now the overwhelming value
07:42proposition but it started with the
07:43tools well let's talk about maybe open
07:45table but other marketplaces that you've
07:47been involved with Jeff and how do you
07:49balance the buyers and sellers because
07:50the difficult part about a marketplace
07:52is that especially ones that are
07:54successful or or I guess maybe only
07:56those that are successful is that the
07:57people who are in there all the time
07:59whether it's eBay or opentable they love
08:01it and they sort of feel like they have
08:02ownership of it so how do you balance
08:04buyers and sellers and and and who's
08:06running the show I mean it's one of the
08:09most interesting things about managing a
08:10marketplaces it's two sides or in some
08:12marketplaces three sides and and who
08:14goes there in every marketplace I've
08:17managed the seller paid the company but
08:21the buyer I believe is where all the
08:23value is sellers businesses small
08:26businesses aspiring small businesses
08:27will typically go wherever they think
08:29consumers are in quantity right so you
08:32know so the true asset that eBay has the
08:36open table has is that the buyer or
08:39diner is coming to the site and the
08:40bindis and the merchants come to try to
08:43find them so I always had this
08:45interesting attention the sellers were
08:47but we would biased towards the buyers
08:49all day long because if you make the
08:51buyers happier it worked and said that
08:54got put to the test because Amazon and
08:56Yahoo launched auction businesses early
08:58in eBay's life and they went for free so
09:01every seller in the world said oh let's
09:03list my site there it didn't work they
09:05had no they did couldn't get the buyers
09:07to show up there so eBay
09:09even though we were charging the other
09:10ones were free you know we kept all the
09:13business because we were keeping the
09:14buyers happy interesting and in the open
09:16table example people came to eat you
09:18know meals at your restaurant even
09:20though you had to pay as a restaurant
09:22owner open table for the service yeah
09:24and you know it is one where again we
09:28said in the open table Roadshow that a
09:30restaurant would be a rational to use a
09:33free competitor who gave them free
09:34hardware and free software because they
09:37would lose access to the open table
09:38diner Network right and that got tested
09:40a number of times including Urban Spoon
09:42that not only was giving their service
09:44away for free they were giving the
09:45proprietors a free iPad to use their
09:48service but the diners didn't use it and
09:51so restaurants would try yes AOL with
09:55same service for free they try it and
09:57you know we get calls two days later
09:59saying oh my god my restaurants empty
10:01weird all the diner's ago I got to go
10:03back to open table so how do you think
10:05then it sounds to me like that that
10:07network is really vital to like the
10:09vitality of your business how do you
10:11maintain that like preeminent Network I
10:14mean one of the things that you have to
10:15do I mean why marketplaces are
10:17interesting from the investor
10:18perspective is the network and they are
10:19there almost always Network affects
10:21businesses so it's um you know this the
10:23more people who use it the more valuable
10:25it is so eBay the more buyers there were
10:28the more sellers that attracted the more
10:29sellers in selection you attracted more
10:31interesting as the buyers the open table
10:33more more diners led to restaurants
10:35being more interested more restaurants
10:36led to satisfied buyers so that is the
10:39business and so you know every time the
10:41code you use in an investing deck is a
10:44wheel where you have the two sides of
10:46the marketplace restaurants and the more
10:47restaurants we have the more diners
10:49coming in the other way the more diners
10:50the more restaurants so what you need
10:53the hardest part is getting that network
10:55effect started right you get
10:56chicken-and-egg issues you can't you
10:58know an open table you had to start
11:00the supply because until you got to
11:02supply it was completely uninteresting
11:04to diners in other places you can you
11:07know you can get demand for you know
11:08from the consumer but the supplies you
11:11know slower to come that that's probably
11:12a little more in airbnb z-- case there
11:14be arguably supplies constraint but so
11:17let's use Airbnb as an example it could
11:19have early on it had that issue in San
11:22Francisco where somebody trashed
11:23somebody's apartment horribly and they
11:25could have lost their network had they
11:27not really doubled down and proven to
11:30everyone that they had trust and safety
11:32measures put into place and so I want to
11:35know that you've built this network it's
11:36like it's a flywheel and yet what do you
11:39need to have in place to make sure that
11:41it maintains one is constant improvement
11:44and trust and safety is an area that
11:46typically is important for marketplaces
11:48because you know large-scale
11:50marketplaces have tons of strangers
11:53doing business with tons of strangers so
11:54right I mean the Airbnb I thought was a
11:56great example of taking a challenging
11:58situation and making the business
12:00demonstrative through things like the
12:02Airbnb guarantee and and you know better
12:05trust in safety and you know the things
12:07that are you know really important to
12:09the business I thought they you know
12:12they took that example and made and ran
12:14with it quite hard the other thing you
12:17have to keep it efficient yeah you can't
12:19you know you got to be worried about
12:20raising prices too high a lot of it's
12:22easy to raise prices when you have a
12:23network effect but you know I think that
12:25heard eBay in the long run versus Google
12:27all right yeah and on the trust and
12:29safety aspect like if you observe the
12:31customer behavior today quite a lot of
12:33people when they see an Airbnb apartment
12:35Facebook the person to sort of see if
12:38this person is you know what their
12:40background is to get comfortable before
12:41they rent the place right so social as
12:43sort of unable to build that trust the
12:45other advantage Airbnb had it has is the
12:49supply and the demand actually overlap
12:51right so for example I was first a
12:54customer of Airbnb but then I was open
12:56to listing the place as well so only
12:58some marketplaces have that overlap
13:00effect where you could also be the
13:01supply like on open in the case of open
13:03table its restaurants and the customers
13:05but so now we're seeing a lot more
13:07marketplaces that are coming
13:09with unique perspectives where you know
13:11like put the supplier and the customer
13:13is pretty much the same so once you've
13:14established a network you have this
13:16trust on the part of the buyers do you
13:19have the permission to go in different
13:21directions and are you seeing that I
13:22mean I think in a lot of the great
13:25marketplaces they develop a community in
13:27that community it kind of works with you
13:30know a hybrid model with the marketplace
13:33to define where it goes so a lot of a
13:35strategy we did it eBay was watching how
13:37the community was using the eBay site
13:39and trying to enable what they were
13:41doing what they were trying to do so
13:43eBay started as a collectible site one
13:46one product manager one time realized
13:49that he loved collectible cars and he
13:51searched for Ferrari or Maserati I
13:53forget which one and he found two real
13:55ones on the site and we were like we
13:58sell cars well it turns out if you
14:00didn't live in New York or Los Angeles
14:02it's hard to buy the Maserati or Ferrari
14:04and so that was a market inefficiency
14:06that that company was creating so we
14:09then built eBay Motors to enable that
14:11pursuit of that business Airbnb is the
14:14same thing it started kind of air-beds
14:16in a in in in a shared apartment now you
14:19can get full homes you you know people
14:21have listed boats they're probably the
14:23single largest site with for car sharing
14:26they collaborative economy is on Airbnb
14:29people listed cars and you know they're
14:32hard to find the company you know it has
14:34to you know the opportunity if they
14:36wanted to enter the car business in a
14:39huge way because they are you know
14:41they're they're being listed but is that
14:42that collaboration between the
14:44marketplace and their community and
14:46frankly the best strategy we had at eBay
14:48was just watching like a hawk what they
14:51were doing then try to make it easier
14:53interesting and do you personally do I
14:55mean I want to Jeff how you think about
14:56this the Steve Jobs view of the world
14:58where people don't know what you they
15:00want until you give it to them I mean is
15:01there kind of a balance that you should
15:04striker or does it depend on your job
15:06Xion personality or what yeah I think I
15:09to that view on product development I
15:12mean the the if you you can listen too
15:16much to your community and commute a lot
15:17of the early community
15:18members will want to hold on to what was
15:20original so when we were trying to when
15:23I took over managing ebay it was 100% an
15:25auction site and there are a lot of
15:27people who were not attracted the
15:29auction format in particular women were
15:31not attracted to the kind of the
15:32competitive last minute slug it out when
15:35win the bid process so we had this
15:37incredibly innovative concept to offer
15:39fixed price retail now a number a large
15:44portion of the community was convinced
15:46we're gonna kill the Golden Goose now if
15:47you put fixed price next to auctions
15:49you'd constrain how high auctions would
15:52go you know there were all kinds of doom
15:54David things we we just had a passion
15:57and thought you know that we were
15:58talking to buyers we thought it would
16:00expand the universe we thought the two
16:01were potentially compatible so we
16:03presented them with something now if it
16:05didn't work we probably have I'm wounded
16:07but but I do think in that there's cases
16:09and particularly in marketplaces where
16:11you have to have that strong point of
16:13view on okay this is the right way to go
16:15because there are the you know there
16:18there are people who were heavily
16:20resistant to change and you're often
16:22changing something they're passionate
16:24about which which you know you're kind
16:26of ups the ante a little bit as more and
16:28more value moves to these marketplaces
16:30and I know Airbnb there's billions and
16:32sort of value that goes through it and
16:33and you know we're gonna see more and
16:35more this and other marketplaces but how
16:37do you protect against fraud or can you
16:39protect against fraud I mean it's it's
16:40absolutely critical and you know I'd
16:42probably parts at the phrase terminology
16:44we've always use is trust and safety and
16:46their different safety is the reality
16:49how safe is the experience and you
16:50always want to make it more safety trust
16:52is how do users perceive the safety of
16:55the experience and both are important
16:56you could actually have safety without
16:58trust you're gonna have you know trust
16:59without safety but I'm the two I
17:01typically work in tandem and you know
17:04for yeah I mean for any time you get
17:07meaningful exchanges of money going both
17:09ways you have to work on it um trust in
17:12Stacy's in areas that's evolved a ton
17:13since I was actually you know early on
17:15at eBay and early on at eBay everyone
17:17they internet wanted to be anonymous you
17:20know so there were usernames and
17:22you know the eBay would didn't
17:23necessarily want people to interact a
17:25lot directly so we were a conduit that
17:28you know kind of kept both sides
17:29relatively anonymous that's just changed
17:33Airbnb as you know it's all about true
17:36identity your social network you know
17:38they verify often verify a lot of users
17:40that they are who they say they are
17:42through some online verification
17:43techniques that are pretty elegant and
17:46so the I mean there is nothing more
17:49important in a marketplace than people
17:50both being safe and feeling safe another
17:53part of that is the seller reviews right
17:55so nowadays the reputation of the seller
17:57is critical and sometimes it also
17:59translates across marketplaces there's
18:02still not a way to do that effectively
18:03but for example in the case of Airbnb
18:05the customer does look for you know
18:07what's the rating and they also try and
18:10discipline the reviews by response times
18:12and your listings get featured depending
18:15on how well you've been doing is a
18:16seller so that's another incredible way
18:19to sort of make sure that either there
18:21are years you're making the buyer
18:22experience more seen these reputations
18:25can be incredibly powerful on both eBay
18:26and and Airbnb on the sellers with great
18:30reputations earn work they they're
18:32selected more they can charge higher
18:34rates because it's because they're both
18:36trust this trust and safety they're
18:39their trusted source to prove an
18:41experience if 20 other people adored
18:43this host in the place I'm probably
18:45gonna like it too if no one's reviewed
18:47that you know it's just it's a little
18:49bit buyer beware so yeah and it's
18:51different than the sort of static you
18:53know stamp of approval that was used in
18:56other marketplaces like it's continuous
18:58it's like yesterday this person went
19:00there and had a great experience I trust
19:02you even more yeah yeah what about
19:05payments and the reason I asked us if so
19:08Apple pay you know it hasn't been rolled
19:10out too broadly but who should be kind
19:13if if there is something that's not
19:16quite right or money goes away or awry
19:20or I mean ultimately I think the
19:22marketplace has to put their money their
19:25money where their mouth is if they're
19:26saying it's safe they pretty much you
19:29know have to get a long way towards
19:31making sure it's safe and guaranteeing
19:33it's scary as all get-out because early
19:36on i mean anytime you have strangers
19:37sending money to strangers in many
19:39meaningful quantities you're going to
19:41get attract fraudsters so um you know I
19:43that can range from the you know the
19:46down you know across the across the
19:49highway who you know who you know we
19:51used to have guys who would steal money
19:53on eBay and have the item have the money
19:56sent mailed to their home address you
19:58know it was not really hard to find
20:00those guys contrast that with you know
20:05the the motive most of the fraud on eBay
20:08and PayPal was organized crime typically
20:11out of Eastern Europe where completely
20:13had incredibly talented computer science
20:15professionals who lacked a lot of
20:17commercial opportunity so this was how
20:19they were earning their living and
20:21keeping up with those guys was really
20:23hard but you had in reality it was an
20:25arms race to make the site safe and then
20:28ultimately you know at eBay we did the
20:30you know we did the buyer protection
20:32program Airbnb did the Airbnb guarantee
20:35you have to in reality make it safe and
20:37then create that trust improve trust
20:40feeling often through putting your money
20:42where your mouth is yeah and I think
20:44you're the biotech spec tation has also
20:46evolved over time right if you look at
20:48the Craigslist days you just saw the
20:50listing and then the rest of the
20:51interaction or the transaction happened
20:53outside of the Craigslist platform but
20:55as marketplaces have evolved over time
20:57the buyer expectation for what the
20:59marketplace offers has only increased
21:01and if for example if you look at
21:03secondhand market places today like we
21:05see quite a few includes the buyer does
21:08expect the marketplace to make sure that
21:10the clothes are well curated and looks
21:12like what it is in the photographs right
21:13so there's a lot more work the
21:15marketplace does these days and
21:16therefore the payment flows are also
21:18going through the marketplace I mean
21:20it's part of the velocity that you're
21:21seeing in marketplaces because you know
21:24the the precursors eBay and and I want
21:26to actually ask about Amazon how this
21:28fits into it but but we're used to you
21:30know these marketplaces now me at some
21:31level are more comfortable you know it's
21:34an interesting question they I mean it's
21:36it's essentially a superior business
21:37model because you know at least from
21:40from the you know it's central for most
21:43companies in most verticals
21:45if if you're doing a two-sided
21:47marketplace where both sides of the
21:48marketplace are doing all the work and
21:50you are you're orchestrating you know
21:52it's they're typically very high margin
21:54can grow very quickly because there's
21:56you know no vert no physical constraints
21:58on their growth and so I mean they can
22:01be some of the best business models you
22:04I mean they're they're beautiful I mean
22:07a base I think we got operating margins
22:09of 40 or 50 percent right and we have
22:12the tools in place to sort of initiate
22:14or allow for all kinds of marketplaces
22:17one of which I I want it like because
22:20people have taken a run at this for a
22:21long time as used cars like are we gonna
22:23start to see that I hope become more
22:28efficient or less fragmented yeah so
22:30there are new companies that are
22:32emerging in the used car market places I
22:34think the biggest friction in the used
22:36car market place used to be that you
22:38know you would either go to a dealer and
22:40there was no price transparency and even
22:42when you knew the price you didn't know
22:44the quality of the car right everything
22:46was so fragmented and it was it's a very
22:48big ticket item and people you know
22:50wanted someone to back it so what you're
22:52seeing now in the used car market place
22:54is you know mobile people marketplace
22:58have all enables that concept to do it
23:00better for example the ones we're seeing
23:02right now they send you know mechanics
23:03to your home if you're trying to sell
23:06your car they help you price the car
23:08they listed for you on the site and as a
23:11buyer you know you're you can decide by
23:14either doing a test drive or you know
23:16you know that that organization has got
23:18that marketplace has guaranteed and has
23:20actually you know had mechanics check
23:22the car right so if you see that those
23:26types of marketplaces they're actually
23:28changed the way the user used to buy the
23:30really improved entire experience before
23:33I had to work with the dealer to contact
23:34the buyer I had to contact you know a
23:37mechanic I had to work with a lot of
23:38different parties well now I just work
23:40with the marketplace I mean again it's
23:42another example where the analog process
23:44was crews incredibly inefficient there's
23:46only two places that anyone makes money
23:47in the car business reputedly one is
23:49service the other is the resale of used
23:51cars you know new cars are the lost
23:52leader to get those to businesses so
23:54aggressive entrepreneurs are trying to
23:57dress inefficiencies well let's hope
24:00they succeed Amazon um how does this fit
24:03into this kind of whole universe of
24:05marketplaces I mean they've Amazon
24:07adopted the marketplace model it
24:10actually was funny when as at eBay there
24:12was a company that launched that got a
24:14lot of attention incredibly smart
24:16launched by done by an entrepreneur
24:18named Josh Kopelman and now the minute
24:20it's late first round capital he
24:22registered the URL IBAs on because he
24:24thought half was a hybrid between eBay
24:26and Amazon and and then basically also
24:28hoped there would be a bidding war
24:29between the two companies which came
24:31close to being true we paid a lot for a
24:32half but what amazon has done the
24:35insight is the marketplace and they
24:37basically emulated half I won't say
24:39copied because that would be for Jordan
24:41the buy on to the listings they in the
24:45marketplace people and you know they
24:47have an SKU and this is the Amazon
24:49listed and then other people can list
24:51too you know one of the secrets of it
24:53dirty secrets Amazon is they their first
24:56party business isn't growing very fast
24:58at all their third party business is
25:00exploding and a lot of people think
25:02that's where Amazon makes most of its
25:05commerce margin from that they are the
25:07third third party Commission's where
25:09they again have very little cost to
25:11serve some of them they fulfill but um
25:13you know that is you know that is their
25:15growth engine in commerce right now they
25:17got a few others to that's incredibly
25:19well-managed company like like the cloud
25:21web services but um you know they're
25:24read their merchandise strategy their
25:26commerce strategy is a third party
25:27strategy right now right and it's
25:28another sort of group of proof points
25:31around the power of network and
25:32marketplaces know that are and they also
25:34have guidelines for shipping and they
25:36constantly monitor the seller reading so
25:38all the principles that we talked about
25:40you still apply and it has to hold true
25:42for that marketplace to do well any
25:45fragmented or inefficient areas of
25:48verticals that you would like to see
25:50tackled next or that you are saying I
25:52mean they're just showing up everywhere
25:55I mean if you look at one of my favorite
25:57infographics is a picture of the
25:59Craigslist homepage with each vertical
26:01with the the marketplace that's
26:03attacking it you know so short-term
26:05rentals would be Airbnb and ride-sharing
26:08but I mean Craigslist for my students
26:11being hollowed out I mean they're not /
26:13they're not innovating they're not
26:14providing a great user experience so
26:16entrepreneurs are going into each of
26:17those verticals and building highly
26:19tailored highly specialized high
26:21value-added experiences that are
26:24resonating with consumer so I in
26:25Craigslist indirectly is spawning tens
26:28of hundreds of billions of dollars of
26:30market cap it's just market cap that you
26:32know that capitalist honker might have
26:34tried to capture for themselves right
26:36well I knew Jeff I will be looking for
26:39my furniture site my used-car site and
26:42every other marketplace I can think of
26:43thank you guys so much thank you thanks
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