00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast i'm michael
00:02copeland right about now you're
00:04pondering what to eat or maybe pondering
00:06why you ate so much and so in that
00:09spirit we thought it was a good time to
00:11talk about the future of food to help us
00:13do that on the podcast we brought in Rob
00:15Reinhart who is the CEO and founder of
00:17Soylent which is an engineered food it's
00:20complete nutrition for people and it
00:23comes in a powder and a bottle and also
00:25on the podcast we have Chris Dixon who
00:27led the firm's investment in Soylent so
00:30we get Rob and Chris to talk about food
00:32and what the future of food systems
00:34might look like bring your favorite
00:36snack under your belt maybe and let's
00:38talk about food Rob Chris welcome thank
00:43you Michael you guys are all amped up on
00:45Soylent I can see we have bottles and I
00:47like this sort of anonymous white bottle
00:50it's very sleek and yet from the future
00:53thanks I hear the word ominous sometimes
00:55I like the minimalism that and you know
00:59you can drink it and it doesn't have to
01:00be this big advertisement but I like the
01:04simplicity of the design it looks it
01:06looks a little bit like the Stormtrooper
01:08of food I have to say thank you well it
01:12depends which side you're on honestly
01:14obviously the dark side so when when
01:16Chris was talking up Soylent and when
01:19when we started to see some of the
01:20uptake in like the reddit world for
01:23example um I was hugely skeptical I'm
01:26like why do we want this and turns out
01:29more and more and more people want this
01:31but let's start with where it began and
01:35then how the where the community has
01:37taken it if it began because I really
01:39wanted it I noticed that it's something
01:41that I had a very strong personal need
01:43for I you know I was very passionate
01:45about technology and development and you
01:47know using science and in tech to
01:49improve people's lives and but I figured
01:52I could start with my own and what I was
01:53really struggling with was not you know
01:55a lot of digital apps and sites and
01:57services but I was eating very poorly
02:00that just seemed very impractical for me
02:03to have to do this balance of cost and
02:06time in nutrition for every single meal
02:09I was eating very poorly and I was still
02:13the ramen diet a lot of ramen
02:17I still like ramen but you know frozen
02:19corn dogs and and pasta and and you know
02:23chicken it was okay you know I wasn't
02:25like I certainly wasn't starving but I
02:28was just I felt tired I didn't it was it
02:31was affecting my work and it just seemed
02:32that I was repeating the same work every
02:35day over and over again and that just
02:36seemed wasteful that I had to do this
02:39errand I had to go all the way to the
02:40store and I had to park and then I had
02:42to pick everything from tens of
02:44thousands of different options and check
02:46out and it just seemed weird you know
02:47all these other things are getting so
02:48much more convenient I buy everything
02:50else online there's reviews I can get
02:52quality products I can get something
02:54that is you know really fulfills my
02:56needs why am I like basically a DIY food
03:00maker why is everyone expected to be a
03:02nutritionist and a cook logistics
03:04manager okay look I like cooking but but
03:07a DIY food engineer it's called cooking
03:10you know you buy things and you cook it
03:12and it's not that complicated I mean you
03:15make it sound like it's this 5000 step
03:18process and that nobody's gone to a
03:20grocery store and nobody knows where
03:21everything is at Trader Joe's some of
03:23the criticism of what Soylent does is
03:25like you take the joy out of food how do
03:27you respond to that I think it's hard to
03:30enjoy something if it's forced on you
03:32and we do have to eat or else we're
03:34going to die and cooking is a makes a
03:36lot of sense it can be a lot of fun I
03:38absolutely see the appeal as as of a
03:42form of art and expression and a hobby I
03:44think that's the beauty of it I think
03:46cooking should be seen as an important
03:48part of life and culture but practically
03:51speaking you know sometimes we were
03:52mantis eyes it a little bit and I think
03:54a lot of times it really is more
03:55manufacturing that a lot of stuff that
03:57is coming out of our kitchens you know
04:00especially for someone like me who was
04:02you know just moved to a new city it's
04:05really not that great and it's really
04:06not getting the job done and I think it
04:08makes a lot of sense to use tools like
04:10you know manufacturing in industry to
04:13make products that fulfill our needs for
04:15you know different lifestyles lifestyles
04:17are changing you know we don't live on
04:18farms anymore we don't cook all of our
04:20meals from scratch anymore I mean the
04:22industrialization in the food system has
04:23been happening steadily for over a
04:26I mean the the 50s promised us you know
04:28all sorts of magic food convenience and
04:31well the trend has been to go away from
04:35that honestly so it's but also the Rob's
04:38point if you just look at the data there
04:40there's you know certainly people
04:42there's some portion of meals are people
04:44going and buying food and cooking it and
04:46some portion especially in wealthier
04:49places like like the coastal areas where
04:51you know we're where we live they're
04:55buying organic food and cooking it and
04:57that's great and no one's against that
04:58but the reality is a lot of meals are
05:00are you know people are fast food you
05:03know McDonald's things like that they
05:07are frozen dinners they are people going
05:10to a convenience store if you go to a
05:11typical convenience store almost every
05:13single product and there is loaded with
05:14sugar and really bad for you so you know
05:18I think the my view would be that the
05:20you know compare like Soylent is not
05:22meant to replace the organic home-cooked
05:25meal with friends it's meant to replace
05:27the you know the the hamburger at
05:31McDonalds which is just terrible for you
05:33I mean this is why we have an epidemic
05:34of diabetes and obesity and obesity is
05:38that people who eat you know they go and
05:40they have these like these terrible like
05:42breakfast meals and McDonald's they have
05:43you know fast food they have sugary
05:47stuff from a convenience store you know
05:50this this is that we've literally have
05:52an epidemic of this I mean sugar is the
05:54new smoking it's going to you know kill
05:57it's going to be by far the biggest
05:58killer of this generation and to Bob's
06:03point is you know sort of to compare it
06:04to the organic home-cooked meal is is is
06:07to romanticize it like no one is saying
06:09we should I don't think Rob you're
06:11saying we should get rid of those meals
06:13I think what we're saying is take your
06:15worst meal and instead of having
06:19something you know if you and mo
06:20typically the worst meal is driven by
06:22the fact people are you know cost and
06:24time constraints right so they go in and
06:26they get some fast food take your worst
06:28meal and replace it with something
06:29that's actually healthy
06:30Soylent if you saw the movie Soylent
06:33Green is not people you're Soylent but
06:34what is Soylent what's in the bottle or
06:39it's nutrition it's everything the body
06:42needs that we know of protein fat
06:46carbohydrates but you know you want the
06:49right forms of them you need proteins
06:51with certain amino acid profile you need
06:54you know certain types of fats that are
06:57healthier than others you want
06:59carbohydrates that are local I see make
07:00index I'd like to avoid cholesterol you
07:03need electrolytes and you need vitamins
07:05and minerals but you need ones that are
07:06going to be absorbs and bioavailable and
07:10you need a good experience - I mean user
07:13experience in food is very complicated
07:14it's you know food is one of our only
07:17products that interacts with all five of
07:18our senses so you know texture is very
07:20complicated taste is very complicated
07:22flavor is extremely complicated there's
07:24a lot of science and a lot of
07:25engineering that goes into food product
07:26design so how did you end up with this
07:29sort of formulation that that you know
07:31from where you come from and how is that
07:33verified that it that it meets
07:35nutritional requirements so we did that
07:37by basically working backwards from all
07:40that we know we don't know everything
07:41about nutrition certainly but I think we
07:43do know plenty to make something that's
07:46far healthier than what most people are
07:47eating so we will go off of data that's
07:50been gathered by the Institute of
07:51Medicine the World Health Organization a
07:54lot of studies have been run a lot of
07:56science has been done over the past
07:59century and it looks like you know the
08:02body is really made of parts it's made
08:04of chemicals and there's only so many
08:06things that we need that we deplete that
08:08need to be replenished there's basically
08:10energy you know that's stored and you
08:12know atomic bonds from things like the
08:14lipids and the carbohydrates and there's
08:17things that are more structures like the
08:19amino acids that become proteins I mean
08:21our body is continually undergoing a
08:24state of change and we need to replenish
08:26it's it's its parts and its energy and I
08:29mean to large extent you are what you
08:31I mean your body becomes you know is
08:34built out of the food that you eat so I
08:36think we need to be way more careful
08:38about what we're putting in our bodies I
08:40have to ask this Chris you you you drink
08:43Soylent on a regular basis and it like
08:45you say it it's my calories I'm
08:48but half my calories just about which is
08:50about the I think it's about the average
08:52so you think that's the average I mean
08:54we have we have some hardcore users but
08:55you know most people most people it's
08:58like my worst meal so breakfast and
09:00maybe like afternoon snack okay and so
09:03we're looking at the ready to drink
09:05bottle the Stormtrooper bottle what does
09:07it taste like describe it for me well
09:08everyone everyone's calling the ready to
09:11cheerio milk so it tastes very similar
09:14to yeah you know many Cheerios and then
09:18the milk left over you know which is a
09:20kid or whatever you always I would
09:21always like drink that and think it
09:23tasted really good and it tastes like
09:24that people it's been you know because
09:27the the caricatures are so in the press
09:30are you know people have said it's you
09:32know if caricature it is not tasting
09:34good people are just are universally
09:36shocked at how good it tastes
09:37I mean I'll be honest like again I'm
09:39relatively skeptical about all this and
09:41I I tried it Chris's chris is a good
09:43salesman for Soylent I've yet to meet
09:51somebody who does not like the ready to
09:54drink I've given it to everyone it comes
09:56to my office including I describe it a
09:58little bit cake battery and a good way
10:01like you know when you get to have like
10:03wipe your finger the powder tasted more
10:05pancake pancake that fishy like 1.0 yeah
10:09the powder we had some issues with the
10:11texture the way that the drink is is
10:13processed which you know isn't a huge
10:17very very complex automated facility you
10:20know it's very difficult to have
10:22something that is so nutritious to have
10:23it not spoil to have it sit on the shelf
10:25to have a shelf life of over a year and
10:28not require refrigeration it's a very
10:31complicated process you know there's a
10:33lot of science and technology that goes
10:34into our food system that people one
10:36don't even know about and I think don't
10:38appreciate as much as they should
10:40well big is a big goal of so it's not
10:44just to make something that's affordable
10:46nutritious it's also to have less
10:50environmental impact in the production
10:52of it the you know so the current system
10:54is just I mean it's just completely I
10:56think barbaric I mean we you know we're
10:58slaughtering animals treating them in an
11:01we were consuming but you know 80% of
11:04fresh water on Earth is used by
11:06agriculture you know we have a drought
11:09in California like the amount of it's
11:11like you know thousands of gallons of
11:13water end up going into the production
11:15of you know a few pounds of meat
11:17it's an incredibly inefficient system
11:19it's a wasteful system it's destroying
11:21the earth it's you know it's incredibly
11:25wasteful and I don't think there's I
11:26don't think we'd really need to rely on
11:28it that much anymore I mean because you
11:31don't need you know cow meat itself
11:33although it you know it's has attractive
11:35properties like taste and texture but
11:36those can be you know generated in
11:40different ways and the proteins
11:41themselves commune generated in
11:42different ways far more efficiently so
11:45part of the goal here is to is to yes
11:47make the production of this product and
11:50in a more agricultural products far more
11:52efficient by just cutting out a lot of
11:54these intermediate steps that are really
11:55unnecessary one example of this is the
11:57algae oil that is present in the product
11:59so it's not it's not grown like a
12:02traditional crop in a field it's grown
12:04in a large tank and in a bioreactor with
12:06it with single cells in so since you're
12:09growing it out of the out of these
12:11individual cells you don't need you know
12:13the whole animal you don't need all this
12:14energy going to keeping the organism
12:15itself alive and you don't have you know
12:18plants soaking up metals from soil you
12:20don't have to water things when the
12:22water you know leaves the water tables
12:24so are you guys producing oil yourselves
12:28are you sourcing algae oil for example
12:30how is that working I mean like it's a
12:33it's a physical product you know we have
12:35a vast and complex supply chain the goal
12:37is is total vertical integration I think
12:39in theory we could make everything
12:42including the bottle out of you know out
12:46of microorganisms that have been
12:47engineered to produce these components
12:49far far more efficiently than
12:51traditional processes so when you step
12:53back and there's a lot of discussion
12:55about food systems and Chris you bring
12:56up the drought and you know just the use
12:58of resources you know how does Soylent
13:02and and things like that when you think
13:05of a food system of the future what does
13:07that start to look like for you
13:09I think it's very it's almost it's
13:13something that would work just as well
13:15in space or on Mars as on earth I mean
13:17the inputs are that are the same you
13:19know you need co2 and you need energy
13:21which can come from light and you need
13:22water which you can recycle I would like
13:25to be able to make food without
13:26burdening the earth's resources
13:27whatsoever and I think it's totally
13:29possible so what does that start to look
13:30like are we talking about like growing
13:32things and test tubes and vats and you
13:34know that's just ya bioreactors by our
13:36beautiful big photobioreactors you know
13:40spheres or going to the Soylent Factory
13:51in LA in a few years is going people are
13:52gonna come from all over the world to
13:54see these giant blue glowing glowing
13:56orbs so the orbs are growing we're
13:58producing what I'm anything so the but
14:02mostly the components of of the other
14:06product you know I'm staples
14:08macronutrients proteins fats amino acids
14:11so what they just look like it's not
14:13like there's an ear of corn growing in a
14:15glowing blue you know beaker Tubber tank
14:19no it's gonna look it's gonna look like
14:21exactly you cut that it's gonna look
14:23like just a cloudy drop of water and
14:26you're going to see like you know it it
14:29needs co2 and he's gas and it needs
14:31nitrogen so you'll see bubbles of gas
14:33going up through it and you'll see a
14:34strong light source at the center which
14:36provides the energy that the algae can
14:38feed on and then they get harvested and
14:42processed dried or membrane extracted
14:45the components that you need
14:47individually so imagining a modular
14:52system where instead of you know one
14:53huge tank that could fail you have many
14:56many smaller ones in fact in the future
14:58I think it may be efficient enough that
15:00everyone could have their we just head
15:03back to the future day and it sounds
15:05like you could just put this in your
15:06home yeah like the mr. fusion I think we
15:08could have mr. soil it sits on your
15:10counter or you put it on your porch and
15:12it gets sunlight or you have your solar
15:14panel which powers the LEDs and you know
15:17that the fundamentals there's there's
15:19certainly no physical limit that would
15:21make this impossible you mentioned space
15:23have you been approached by you know
15:25NASA by the European Space Agency are I
15:28well starting to think that like hey we
15:30know we all just read the Martian or
15:32watched a movie if we're a product
15:39we actually have heard from from people
15:43that place like SpaceX and Orbital
15:46Sciences I think stocks the the food for
15:48for the ISS one really one of the most
15:51popular use cases responses people
15:53hiking and doing other kinds of things
15:55like it's cuz it turns out the powder
15:58carrying the powder in a backpack it's
16:00the most efficient way to carry it's the
16:03lightest weight per calorie most
16:06nutritious way to carry yeah exactly
16:08so no more freeze dried chili just bring
16:10Toyland powder I say you could flavor
16:13well I want to get to that community cuz
16:15there's this big community and Chris I
16:17also want to limit let's back up and how
16:19did you come across this I think like a
16:22lot of people I saw their crowdfunding
16:24campaign and was intrigued by it and
16:27then was introduced to Rob and you know
16:30and then we ended up investing I think
16:33an interesting question to ask is why do
16:36we have the food system that we have and
16:39why do we have these problems like
16:41obesity and you know why are people
16:43continuing to buy food that's so bad for
16:46them and I think I mean the answer is
16:48partly for example the distribution
16:50system is the fact that if you live you
16:52know I grew up in Springfield Ohio which
16:54is a small town in Ohio which I just
16:55went back to in visit my parents and
16:57it's just basically I mean your choices
16:59are just everywhere you go every Street
17:02every store is a fast-food restaurant
17:04that's what people do there you go get
17:06fast food and you know people I think in
17:09the West Coast you know these are the
17:11organic movement they sort of have this
17:12romanticized view that people are out
17:14there you know I don't know plucking
17:16corn and cooking it or something it's
17:17just not it's just not how the non
17:19coasts parts of the United States work
17:22they go and they get you know whatever
17:24Arby's and McDonald's and this kind of
17:27stuff and and so the reason a lot of it
17:30is just simply that this is what's there
17:31I mean this is what's convenient right
17:33and then you and then you're and then
17:35you're bombarded with these very
17:36confusing messages about nutrition right
17:39which is you know one week it's
17:41you know fat is good for you then it's
17:44bad for you it turns out most of these
17:46things we know most of like you go if
17:48you're in the hospital they'll give you
17:49you know and you you get in an accident
17:51they'll give you a feeding tube with a
17:53bunch of nutrients that will keep you
17:55alive and keep you healthy like science
17:57knows how to what tip what is nutrition
17:59it's not a mystery and by the way that
18:00feeding that the stuff that you be
18:01feeding to it has a lot of the same
18:02stuff as Sue Ellen has we know the
18:04answer to these questions right the
18:06problem is these giant industries whose
18:08whose incentive it is to go and sort of
18:11obfuscate this and confuse people and
18:13you know it's like things like the you
18:16know the the FDA food pyramid is a
18:18heavily politicized document I come from
18:21this perspective of like how do you do
18:22something about that and I think
18:23unfortunately the people that are trying
18:26something about the food about the food
18:28problem are you know for the most part
18:32taking this organic approach which i
18:34think is well-intentioned and i think is
18:36directionally correct in that you know
18:38pesticides and other things are not good
18:41for you and it's good to avoid them and
18:43if you can afford it you should you know
18:44the stuff you buy at Whole Foods is
18:46generally more expensive than the stuff
18:47you buy at a regular grocery store but
18:50but the problem is in that movement
18:52there's also a very anti science trend
18:56which is for example their anti GMO so
18:58GMO I mean it's just it's just very
19:01confused I mean because we've been doing
19:02genetic engineering you know for
19:03hundreds of years thousands of years and
19:06we just now have better ways to do it
19:08more precisely and science will be sorry
19:11the only way out of this mess in my
19:12opinion both for this and for climate
19:14change and for other kinds of big issues
19:15is science we need to embrace science
19:18and so you know part of what was
19:20intrigued me about Rob is that he and
19:22and Soylent is that they they are taking
19:24a pro science approach to trying to do
19:29something you know about our food food
19:31issues and provide an alternative for
19:33that believe in science I I think you're
19:35right but I think I fortunately or
19:37unfortunately there's this you know it's
19:39two ends of the spectrum so you know the
19:41feeding tube in a hospital you know we
19:43sort of equate with Soylent so it's
19:44either that or it's I'm running through
19:47a organic cornfield picking my own corn
19:49how can we meet in the middle and Rob
19:52how do you suggest that people meet in
19:54terms of food and food systems or is it
19:57like all Soylent or nothing
19:59certainly not it's certainly spectrum
20:01and I see Soylent as not
20:04oppositional to this you know romantic
20:06viewpoint because I think that there are
20:08some amazing aspects of food that we
20:09should enjoy more and a lot of this
20:11organic movement is you know the has
20:13noble intentions about simpler living
20:16and respecting and understanding nature
20:17and understanding more about the food
20:19system I think that's great but most
20:22times a lot of times you just got to eat
20:23you just got a need you need your
20:25calories you need to be full
20:27you know there's you're trying to do
20:28something with your life trying to do
20:29something with your time besides you
20:32know you don't want to be a farmer most
20:34people the United States are not farmers
20:35anymore the arms we don't because they
20:37don't want to have to put in all that
20:38work you know we can use automation so
20:40that's why I see that as very
20:41complimentary that if you have this
20:43default staple nutritious meal that
20:46makes a lot of sense it just gets the
20:47job done it's there when you need it you
20:49don't have to worry about it and then
20:51when you're have the time and the desire
20:53then you can really enjoy all of these
20:56wonderful cultural traditional aspects
20:58of food Chris you mentioned the
21:00Kickstarter campaign and Rob I want to
21:02ask you about this because typically you
21:03know the Kickstarter campaigns are the
21:05really hardcore supporters and they're
21:08really excited about it how is the
21:10community of Soylent users eaters
21:13drinkers changed from that Kickstarter
21:16day to today and how do you see it sort
21:18of spreading out in the community and
21:20what are people doing with Soylent you
21:22know in the community because I know
21:23there's an open source aspect to that
21:24and so I want to talk about as that as
21:26well certainly well I think the open
21:30source aspect is very important to me I
21:31wanted to be as transparent as possible
21:34about this from the beginning because
21:36that was one my biggest issues with the
21:38food system is that it is transparent is
21:40that a lot of these vested interests
21:42seem to obfuscate the science and and
21:45and the messaging around trying to get
21:47people to behave a certain way and that
21:49really bothered me so I wanted to cut
21:50through that by being very very
21:52transparent and open source about the
21:54formula and encourage people you know
21:56even in advance of when we were able to
21:58ship to try out some in some sort of
22:03implementation of the idea so in the
22:06early days the community was largely DIY
22:08people trying to make some you know
22:10Soylent asked product on their own but
22:13you know since we've been shipping the
22:14community has has exploded in number and
22:17diversity and it's incredibly exciting
22:20and and rewarding for me to go on places
22:23like the subreddit or the discourse or
22:26social media and see the way people talk
22:29about it and share it and the way it's
22:31received and how much people love using
22:33it and all the different things people
22:35what's a describe some of those like how
22:37is the Soylent you know formula being
22:39tweaked by others out there and to what
22:43to this today it's mostly in terms of
22:47cooking in flavoring which i think is
22:49great you know what I'm saying from the
22:50beginning is that this isn't you know
22:52this is food itself this is not the end
22:54of food this is not anti food this is
22:55another option for food and I think what
22:58you know the Xmas point a little bit
23:00earlier a lot of people just do not have
23:02that many good options for food they
23:03just don't I really felt that way and I
23:05felt I feel like this is a an additional
23:07option that makes a lot of there's also
23:10this whole DIY Soylent community where
23:12people are taking the formulation which
23:14which is open and creating alternatives
23:17right so there's a degree that on the
23:20deal why people are trying to make you
23:22know use a different protein source or
23:23use a different carbohydrate source or
23:25your low carb or go high in protein for
23:28bodybuilding different nutrition
23:30profiles recently though I think I've
23:32seen a lot more around just flavoring it
23:35and so I can get in cooking it you know
23:38you can bake with it people that cook it
23:40in two different forms and I think
23:42that's very interesting people make it
23:43into ice cream yogurt a lot of flavoring
23:46stuff too and we're working on ways that
23:48we can actually encourage this sort of
23:50behavior because it is this you know
23:51standard base but you know a lot of
23:53people it's it's rarely just an egg or
23:56just flour you know a lot of people
23:57you'll mix it into a bunch of different
23:58from foods and I certainly see that
24:00that's probably always going to be a
24:01part of being human is that people are
24:03going to crave a variety of different
24:04foodstuffs so what we as a company if we
24:06want to make people healthier and make
24:08food production more efficient we need
24:09to fit into this behavior and you know I
24:12think this is a great start but in the
24:15future that's you know we're going to
24:16take this same sort of mentality and
24:18make food very healthy and convenient
24:22encourage people to make it their own
24:23you keep saying affordable how
24:25affordable is it I mean if I'm buying
24:27either they're ready to drink or the
24:29powder or making it a guess at home I
24:31could make it for as little as I
24:33possibly could but on average what are
24:35so with shipping the powder is lower
24:38cost powder is less than $2 per meal
24:40it's a full meal 500 calories the bottle
24:44is around is two dollars and fifty cents
24:46for 400 calories so including shipping
24:49you could live on eight dollars a day on
24:51the powder and eventually that will go
24:52down yes that's eight eight toes are
24:54they on the powder and I'm trying to get
24:56that down to $5 a day is there an
24:58opportunity I mean you know within I
25:00don't know it could be nonprofits it
25:03could even be hospitals for that matter
25:04it could be community organizations to
25:06kind of distribute this and are you
25:08seeing people you know we talked about
25:10space but our other organizations
25:12Soylent is you know it could fulfill
25:15this very strong need in a lot of these
25:17areas that's something that has been on
25:18my mind and been a focus from the
25:20beginning and from the beginning we have
25:22heard from a lot of these organizations
25:24and it's just wonderful to talk to these
25:25people that are so passionate and see
25:27the potential of this product to help a
25:28lot of people a lot of the issues there
25:32are just logistics you know it's very
25:33difficult to move such days you know so
25:36much product to these remote areas and
25:38the distribution is really the issue so
25:40I think we can really attack that from
25:43from a product side one thing we are
25:45working on is what's called an AR UTF
25:46ready-to-use therapeutic food which is
25:49beans kind of like a paste so it's
25:52between the powder and the drinks so
25:54that it is ready to consume but it's
25:56cheaper to ship because it doesn't have
25:58as high moisture content and the World
26:02Health Organization has a nutrition
26:03standard around this that we can just
26:05meet and from there we try to make it as
26:08low cost as possible and for that we're
26:09trying to get it down to one dollar per
26:11day I mean the problem is certainly
26:16distribution which really means shipping
26:18costs right it just basically the
26:20shipping costs are prohibitive for you
26:22know I mean unless you you know the
26:25people who need the food cannot afford
26:27the shipping cost needs to be made
26:30either more efficient or you need to
26:31subsidize it or you can make the food
26:33more stable I mean so yeah there's there
26:35is produced to feed the world twice over
26:37so why are so many filled malnourished
26:38because it it's it spoils and you know
26:41it's expensive to ship because the
26:42moisture content is so high and we
26:45should mention one important feature so
26:46does that it lasts at least what is it a
26:48year unrefrigerated yeah and doesn't
26:50require it doesn't need to be chilled it
26:52says not part of the chills like a lot
26:54of food needs to be chilled all the way
26:55through including him yeah which adds a
26:58lot to the expense and the energy
26:59consumption yeah in the United States
27:01the amount of energy spent on
27:02refrigeration is just unconscionable
27:03it's right it's an it's insane so it was
27:05very important to me that we had a
27:06product that did not require
27:07refrigeration that you know it's nice it
27:09it tastes nice chilled but it's it's not
27:11required and I personally don't own a
27:13refrigerator and I think it tastes just
27:15fine how do you answer because you
27:17mentioned paste and and I want to get
27:19back to the notion of what what food is
27:22you know I can see chefs and you know
27:24the likes of Mark Bittman and Michael
27:26Pollan rolling their eyes like okay now
27:28it's we're getting the paste first it's
27:30in a bottle now it's paste you know what
27:32are people most skeptical of and what
27:36behaviors do you disloyal it need to
27:38sort of get past for it to get out there
27:41more widely I think you know routines
27:45can be very sticky and if someone is in
27:48a certain food routine which most people
27:50are further staples it can be a little
27:52hard to reevaluate it even if it's not
27:54doing working very well for you which
27:55clearly it's not given the state of
27:57health in the United States and
27:59elsewhere so I think we just need a
28:01little bit of perspective you know we
28:03need to a little bit to it is really
28:05hard to pin down a certain definition
28:07you know obviously food means a lot of
28:08different things to a lot of different
28:09people but you know genetically and
28:12physiologically there's a lot of overlap
28:14between different people and we just
28:16need these same parts we need these same
28:18chemicals you know everything is made of
28:20chemicals it's not something we need to
28:21be afraid of including natural plants so
28:24there's no fundamental disconnect I
28:27think between a engineered food and one
28:31that is naturally grown in fact it makes
28:33a lot of sense that to to me to really
28:37understand the you know the scientific
28:39basis and you know of a natural food
28:42product and how it works and then we
28:44think about you know how is it meeting
28:46our needs and what can we do to
28:49you know makes make what can we do to
28:52produce it and so that it uses fewer of
28:54the earth's resources or fulfills our
28:57needs better and you know that's gonna
29:00solve a lot of issues you know resource
29:02conflicts and hunger you know these
29:04things have been declining pretty
29:06steadily I think largely because of
29:08investment in industrialization and you
29:12know if you look at the crops we have
29:14today I mean calling them natural is
29:16just you know a misunderstanding I mean
29:19corns not supposed to be yellow you know
29:21pumpkins are supposed to be this big
29:22watermelons are supposed to be this big
29:23you know soy has been changed but again
29:27I'm just curious and I know you've seen
29:30it multiple multiple times but getting
29:33past that you know entrenched behavior
29:35where food is the way I imagine in my
29:38head it's this kind of Norman Rockwell
29:40Thanksgiving meal or something what how
29:44do you get people past that to even try
29:46Soylent and then where do they typically
29:50well I think that everyone the value
29:54proposition is clearly very strong given
29:56the response of this so it's price is
29:58one of the things right price and
30:01function right I think that's you know a
30:03lot of people are already frustrated
30:06with their health a lot of people are
30:07already frustrated with their routine
30:09and so it's up to us to explain that
30:12this can you know it gets the job done
30:15it's very usable it's very accessible
30:19and just lower the barrier for people to
30:22try it and what would you say to the
30:25likes of you know Michael Pollan and/or
30:27you know all these people in Brooklyn
30:29who are leaving Brooklyn and starting
30:30farms in upstate New York like in the
30:32Hudson River Valley like how do you talk
30:35them down from their sort of bully
30:38pulpit again I think a lot of the
30:40intentions are noble and positive you
30:43know I think there's a lot that I would
30:45agree with about understanding more
30:47about where food comes from and how its
30:48produced and you know simpler living and
30:50a lot of people are really stressed and
30:53you know maybe they think that if we go
30:56back to being farmers things are going
30:57to be easier but our ancestors didn't
30:59have it very easy and I think it's
31:02of the past and that we have we live in
31:05a very beautiful more peaceful world
31:08than we had in the past and I think a
31:09lot of it is because of technological
31:10development a lot of things have gone
31:12wrong - you know I think that as a very
31:13valid point that there's a lot of
31:15anxiety that comes with modern behaviour
31:17and a lot of it is caused by technology
31:19but I think technology if used correctly
31:21is going to be a huge part of the
31:24solution as well and that a lot of
31:26people source of stress is their food
31:27and their health and that's what we
31:29should be fixating on and I don't think
31:30the solution is to just return to the
31:32way our ancestors had it Rob I want to
31:34thank you Chris you as well what's for
31:36I don't know when I get some sushi
31:40thanks guys thank you
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