00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland Hollywood and Silicon Valley
00:04meet in this segment of the pod which
00:06features Marc Andreessen in conversation
00:09with Brian Grazer grazer that name rings
00:12a bell I'm sure he's the super producer
00:14behind half the movies in television
00:16you've watched in the last 35 plus years
00:18including Empire 24 Parenthood Arrested
00:22Development Friday Night Lights
00:24Apollo 13 real genius splash anyway you
00:27get the idea that you sat down at the
00:29launch of grazers book a curious mind
00:31the secret to a bigger life which
00:33describes the curiosity conversations as
00:35grazer calls him which he's held for
00:37years with succession of artists
00:39scientists politicians technologists and
00:42all kinds of people mark and Brian pick
00:44up talking about Silicon Valley in
00:46Hollywood the similarities and
00:48differences let's shift a little bit
00:51about the entertainment business as
00:52contact my interest in the entertainment
00:54business one is I'm a huge consumer I
00:56love all the movies and TV shows but the
00:58other is if there's one business on
01:00planet Earth that makes Silicon Valley
01:02look normal and sober and level-headed
01:05for sure for sure it's your business and
01:09so I think there are a lot of things
01:11there are a lot of parallels there
01:12differences between the businesses but
01:13there a lot of parallels a lot of things
01:14to draw on so a couple questions one is
01:16what what is the what is the thing that
01:19you are most excited about in the say in
01:20the next 10 years of your industry of
01:22your business god I think everybody's
01:27trying to find the better way to merge
01:30narrative form with the scalability of
01:33what you guys do because that hasn't
01:35been fully realized yet what do you mean
01:37let's go so because I think that's what
01:39you that's what that's what you guys do
01:41you find ways to to multiply the amount
01:46of possibilities in which people can
01:48experience things so I'd like this to be
01:51part of that movement the movement of
01:54bringing narrative I mean look I get to
01:58enjoy some benefits of that with Empire
02:00because it has such a social media
02:02dimension that is I mean like Twitter
02:04has been such a big part of it and other
02:07social media but that isn't really what
02:09I mean I'm kind of mean like and
02:12I mean whether like finding the day and
02:14the way to do day in global day and date
02:17in the way that people want to will want
02:19to experience the day in day like that
02:21where everybody wins I don't think
02:23anyone's found the way where everybody
02:24wins the way that movie business work
02:26economically today they're staging have
02:28releases across different windows and so
02:29things get stretched different people
02:31see the movie over the course I think
02:35what you're going towards us there could
02:36be more of a sort of a global
02:38consciousness there could be a single
02:39cultural moment yeah where something
02:40comes out there's literally not possible
02:41today exactly Alex but you'd have to
02:44come up with a new model to be able to
02:45do that yes okay I'd love to see it
02:48happen and I'd love to be part of having
02:49it happen because ultimately you just
02:50need you need great stories with sexy
02:53hooks but I mean I mean the easiest
02:56thing like to say is like this uber
02:58thing yeah music I mean it's just like
03:00everyone around those music expresses
03:02all day long and everything like that
03:03this guy found a way to do this thing
03:05it's the same everything good don't get
03:25what are you most concerned about a lot
03:26of people a lot of people actually let
03:28me provoke the question a little bit a
03:29lot of people in LA or you know for the
03:30last 10 20 years have been extremely I
03:32would say stressed and upset by the
03:34impact of technology on their business
03:35and the music industry has certainly
03:36been through their you know sheriff sort
03:38of chaos and a lot of people in the
03:40movie and TV business have I've had you
03:43know they've sort of very hostile
03:44conversations with me over time like why
03:46are you why are you screwing everything
03:47up and so like as you think about the
03:49impact new technologies do you do you
03:51have a concern that the impact of
03:53technology is going to be to make the
03:54business that you're in a worse business
03:55yeah I think I mean well it's made it a
03:58lot less lucrative for artists in the
04:01last five years I mean it's made it so I
04:04mean I'm thrilled that I mean I'm
04:05grateful that I had 20 years of like it
04:09thing that was the real golden era you
04:11know for so I where you you know I could
04:13get 25% of first-dollar gross on movies
04:16but so that's completely vanished
04:19because of technology right well well
04:24then most negative would be piracy the
04:27counter-argument to piracy would be you
04:28know Furious 7 comes out and it's gross
04:30it's the top it's the highest-grossing
04:31Warner movie ever maybe
04:33yeah universities like they're universal
04:34never Empire your show Empire the
04:36ratings are off the charts yeah you know
04:38the Empire has the kind of ratings the
04:40TV shows used to have in the old days I
04:41guess you know no companies don't like a
04:44lot I'll have to do this with Marc
04:45Andreessen cuz he has the
04:47counter-argument seen it on stage with
04:49tough away smarter than me so um
04:53technology today works best on the on
04:56the mega hit thing and and I think you
04:59know Empire is a mega hit and what you
05:01just and Fast and Furious and the Marvel
05:03movies for Disney it's amazing those
05:06mega hits it's working but it doesn't
05:10work for the doubles okay the singles
05:12and the doubles where you know there
05:14were time you could make twenty million
05:15dollars it's not a I'm on a sit on a
05:18movie I would you and if I said the
05:19title you wouldn't even so on a double
05:23so that that part has changed the middle
05:25has changed but I think that ultimately
05:29where I believe it will go is that
05:31ultimately there's every business
05:34operates and quality so if you can
05:36continue if you can just do sustain
05:38create sustained quality then you'll
05:41always be in demand technology will find
05:43you or you'll find it we won't create it
05:46down in Hollywood that's for sure but
05:48that's what that's what will happen I
05:50mean I think there really ain't what
05:51would really interest me
05:52is entertainment in education I think
05:55that's where the the big void is that's
05:57the few that would be for me the future
05:59that interests me because I'm curious
06:02so curiosity factors into both things so
06:05the way education works because I just
06:08think that I think that the way the
06:11education system in America
06:13I think that's sadly I mean I think
06:16Philip that's suffering certainly public
06:19education so I think if there I think
06:22there'll be ways to augment education to
06:25make it better for the majority of the
06:28population in America do you have any
06:30projects like that now are you looking
06:32I am looking for that always looking for
06:35I mean and there are projects that are
06:37JIT domain Apollo 13 is a commercial
06:39movie but it does that but I mean it in
06:41a different way I think there's a way to
06:43make that work for schools for schools
06:46and out of schools and I'm working on a
06:48comp you know a complex that that might
06:50work that way like a cure it's called a
06:52curiosity complex that is interesting
06:55but there's there's there should be a
06:57way to do it visually there should be a
06:58way to do with LD it big LDF screens or
07:01skins that you could replace you could
07:04probably revolutionize the education
07:06system it sounds like a very good
07:08startup pitch and term sheets in the
07:09mail couple more topics before I wrap up
07:15so one is I think one of the things
07:16that's kind of you know very both
07:18surprising but also very clear now is
07:20you know we're in the a lot of ways
07:21we're in a golden age of television
07:22right and from a creative quality
07:25standpoint yeah just she I mean I've
07:27been watching you I mean I just
07:28basically it's it's a miracle I'm even
07:29here today because I very easily could
07:31have stayed up last night and watch all
07:32of daredevil episode that five minute I
07:34almost have to physically force myself
07:35but not watch the next thing so it's so
07:38Wow okay it's phenomenal but I mean
07:40there are literally I don't know what it
07:41is like just like last fall it's like
07:43350 scripted shows on TV and and then
07:45and that all of them are fantastic but
07:47the ones that are good are just
07:48extraordinary and now Netflix and Hulu
07:49and all these other you knows Amazon
07:51green lighting all these all these new
07:52shows drama comedy so like television is
07:55like you know you guys are you know
07:57Arrested Development like you know
07:58there's just extraordinary projects that
07:59you're doing there is an argument today
08:01that basically the quality is
08:03effectively largely are all going to end
08:06up on television which is the great
08:07directors the great writers the great
08:10actors are gonna be naturally inclined
08:12to go to television they can tell longer
08:14former stories they have more creative
08:15control the economic model lends itself
08:17well to kind of appealing to a highly
08:20educated audience and then on the other
08:23side that there's a sort of a very dark
08:24view in the future of the movie industry
08:25of sort of an even darker view what you
08:28said which is you know great superhero
08:29movies can do well but basically movies
08:31that either appeal to kids or an
08:32international audience that's going to
08:33work but sort of movies that appeal to
08:35adults basically fundamentally can't
08:37work anymore yeah like do you believe
08:38that is that since you do both movie and
08:40TV is that your kind of core operating
08:43principle right now or do you think that
08:44people are either too optimistic on TV
08:46or too dark on movies this will be
08:48easy I can totally agree with your point
08:50of view but I do pretty big deal for
08:54somebody like you this made a lot of
08:55high-quality movies oh yeah because
08:56there's there are those movies that I've
08:58made that are toured of their pedigree
09:00tour-de-force kind of films I didn't
09:02make the King's Speech but I like the
09:04King's Speech but I've made frost/nixon
09:06I make so I do like to make movies that
09:09are that become oscar-nominated films
09:11that are that are thoughtful adult films
09:14and I think and there's really very
09:17little interest in people paying for
09:19those right now I mean I can get them
09:21made just as just your physics just the
09:24force of me like it but it's it's not
09:27attractive so it's mostly what you just
09:29said and for the most part that's why
09:31I've kind of shifted my focus or balance
09:35I started in television but then I kind
09:38of got kicked out of television right
09:39and then I but I think I totally agree
09:42with its TV and do you think this will
09:44commute like 10 years from now do you
09:45think we'll be sitting here they're all
09:46think the same thing like well TV just
09:48built from here or okay they do okay
09:50because those platforms are economic
09:53yeah they make I mean they make sense
09:54for everybody when they're working yeah
09:56I mean there'll be a point there you see
09:58right now there's just such a
09:58proliferation of of platforms and but
10:02eventually that'll find its way and it's
10:05the right yeah yeah good all right well
10:07we have a few minutes left and so I want
10:08to close on a lightning round and so I'm
10:15gonna go okay so I'm gonna run through a
10:18list of names some people you talked
10:19about in the book who you've met with
10:20and curiosity conversations and we'd
10:22love a one-sentence on each of them of
10:23kind of the most interesting or
10:25provocative thing that you took away
10:26from the conversations you know this
10:27will be hard ready for this oh this is
10:28you you're gonna be your on the ball I
10:30don't know you're in the zone you're in
10:32the zone Jeff needs us so I'm yeah okay
10:36very smart very focused very smart very
10:39focused interested in physics totally
10:42captivated by the fact that I met with
10:43Edward Teller wanted to know everything
10:44about that Star Wars program Edward
10:46Teller the inventor of the hydrogen bomb
10:47yeah dad father the hydrogen bomb it's
10:49always working creating the Star Wars
10:51program right investor yeah okay
10:53different walk of life David Blaine oh
10:56my god I loved meeting with David Blaine
11:01he blew my mind he did stuff that I
11:03couldn't imagine it was at a Greek
11:04restaurant in New York and he we took
11:09the room and he just did from one thing
11:11to the next to the next I mean really he
11:13changed his physicality in front of me
11:16Naomi Campbell trouble I would not have
11:22suspected that from her press coverage I
11:28met I never met a sue I wasn't really I
11:31didn't think him even meet a supermodel
11:33but I had to sit one of my assistants
11:35was once in the fashion is she cuz you
11:38want to meet the most important
11:39supermodel in the world I can make that
11:41happen I go okay sure Naomi Campbell
11:43walks in where and wearing that and I
11:46didn't know I was gonna soon be dating
11:48her well that was problematic that's
11:50interesting she said I'm gonna cut crew
11:52in your life and she did then I said
12:00just please lose eliminate the area code
12:04to the city of Los Angeles and that was
12:08about a year in the penalty box and then
12:10we then became friends and then she's
12:11now at Empire oh they're fantastic it
12:14all comes together Steve Jobs so smart
12:17so smart and I could feel that there
12:21could be a level of intolerance pretty
12:23quickly because you you had to be within
12:26his world on the ball and in his world
12:29yeah did you did he did he did he lose
12:30patients titties nothing no it's not
12:32maybe I ended it before he could okay
12:37statute of limitations total change of
12:42pace mary-kate and Ashley Olsen oh okay
12:46I meant that okay I met them they were
12:48like gigantic event in the world at one
12:51moment at one point in time they're tiny
12:54super tiny and they're they're kind of
13:00business phenomenons I mean they've
13:01created this business basically I did it
13:03because my daughter was in love of them
13:07and fat infatuated and my daughter was
13:09having a 60th birthday and I thought
13:12they knew they wanted to be in show
13:15kind of used the madam and I said would
13:18you please come to my daughter's
13:19birthday at at the Chateau Marmont they
13:21did they did here here Oh daddy I was
13:26such a hero daddy good total change of
13:29pace David Petraeus oh David Petraeus
13:32was went it went like this this before
13:35or after the scandal long before the
13:39series in the military or just a
13:41military at the Pentagon okay the
13:43general row to the top generals so so
13:45basically what happened is I got to know
13:48Charlie Rose about fifteen six seventeen
13:50years ago or so get to know Charlie Rose
13:52I'm drinking with Charlie Rose and
13:54Graydon Carter at the Waverly Inn it's
13:5611 o'clock everybody says let's go home
13:58and graden says let's hang out Charlie
14:00goes I can't I got to go meet with
14:01Petraeus tomorrow at the Pentagon and I
14:04go I go with you he goes great and I had
14:10a jet and I said I'll fly us we'll go so
14:13we went to meet General Petraeus and I
14:16was it was interesting because other
14:18than the private jet part of it
14:20everything was so no-frills I was
14:21shocked it Charlie had to stand in line
14:23and it was Harris flying all over the
14:25place and he was that Charlie Rose and
14:27we got in and very professor super
14:30professorial and smart and he's not what
14:34you imagine a military general is you
14:36know you major the guy in the field and
14:38he is in Italy PhD right it's a PhD
14:41usually from Princeton yeah among many
14:42other accomplishments yes so super
14:44intellect fun to talk to them it's
14:45interesting how many of the top generals
14:47actually turn out to be PhDs or a
14:49serious advanced education yeah well
14:51that part yes yeah music producer Rick
14:55Rubin oh my god Rick Rubin I brought
14:57Rick Rubin to Empire actually because I
14:59said these guys have got to get it like
15:01get it a little more you know cuz he
15:03I met him he's probably the most
15:05influential music producer the last 30
15:07years yeah I mean he does it all I mean
15:09he created Def Jam he does you know if
15:12he does from hip hop to Anthony Kiedis
15:15the Chili Peppers blah blah to Johnny
15:18Cash to Neil Diamond I met him 30 years
15:21ago and he was really heavy super fat
15:25heavy guy but doing yoga so he comes
15:28this is 300 pounds and he just sits on
15:30my desk in the yoga mode and I don't
15:34know didn't really talk you know he had
15:36this whole kind of trippy energy about
15:38him but totally loved him
15:40very pure guy was still with the big
15:42beard it was just a great a great
15:44meeting we stayed friends we've been on
15:45boat trips together we swim in the oh we
15:47do a lot of things together and I I
15:49think he's got a really interesting
15:50story he was treated when he grew up as
15:53a king like he grew up middle class but
15:55his parents every interaction was Rick
15:57you're a genius you're a genius they
15:59never said anything bad so he said when
16:01he got out into the world when somebody
16:03said - I'm not sure I like it he
16:05literally was hospitalized I couldn't
16:09work his parent was hospitalized and
16:11then be like he was an infirmary for a
16:13year well he couldn't work well because
16:16he was in Fant alized in a way that was
16:18so I think he the interesting guy you
16:20figured you'd figure out his way through
16:21it he did a couple more salman rushdie
16:24salman rushdie that was super
16:27interesting i wanted me summon Rashi
16:29because of when the phone was still pod
16:32Padma you know promise yes his wife yeah
16:35because I'm gonna give you a pod mr.
16:36Batra was the death threat yeah that was
16:38a death threat important to get those
16:39two right I know because sometimes they
16:41coincide but in his case they were
16:43actually totally separate you're right
16:48okay but I thought a Padma because
16:51basically he was pawning Padma off on me
16:54oh so I thought was really interesting
16:56yeah I would find that interesting well
16:59he was in the midst of the death threat
17:02thing yeah but he was dating Padma and
17:05Padma you know all men are governed by
17:08women and he was she really wanted be an
17:13actress I guess so he met me I want to
17:16meet him for him he wanted to meet me
17:18because he got a clogged mo immediately
17:21like could I meet Padma yeah which I did
17:23yeah well you were you disconcerted by
17:24the idea of meeting with somebody who
17:25was under active death row who's freaked
17:27out about it yeah I was freaked out
17:29about it I wasn't yeah doubt about it I
17:32think I think that makes some sense
17:35just loved her I mean she's I mean she's
17:38everything I think you would imagine or
17:40hopes you'd be really loving kind of a
17:43childlike in his very super innocent
17:45super super innocent in every way you
17:48know just just just been doing tennis
17:51her old life as you guess and so she's
17:52never really had real childhood or
17:54socialization and she's very shy and
17:56sweet and soft voice but super sour you
18:02know you just admire like crazy all
18:04right last and final okay pressures on
18:06Ben Silbermann Ben's oh my god I love
18:11I don't already sitting and Pinterest
18:14but I met Ben before I really knew what
18:17Pinterest was and I just liked Ben door
18:22Jack Dorsey was a friend of mine and a
18:25very selective guy's slightly you know
18:27cool slightly elitist doesn't like
18:29everybody we were at the Allan company
18:33he points to Ben he goes that's a good
18:35guy and you never say didn't say it
18:38about about anybody so immediately I
18:40took to Ben and every time we go to the
18:45Allen camp when we hang out together and
18:46I always asked him if he'd go shooting
18:48skeet with me and we we do that with a
18:50few other guys and I now use Pinterest I
18:53love interesting yeah what did you spend
18:55tris for in this curiosity complex what
18:59I'm able to do is I need a different
19:01ways to simulate that the the worlds
19:05that I'm creating and so I can get these
19:07amusement parks all over the world or
19:09rides and I can pin them and put them in
19:12different buckets fantastic all right
19:14it's a nice big blockbuster movie
19:15there'll be a credit interest raiser
19:21thank you Wow thank you
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