00:05welcome to the a 16z podcast i'm here
00:08with benedict Devens who's just fought
00:11traffic to get back down here to the
00:12Home Office from WWDC well what would
00:15drew Kate and we are also joined by Dave
00:20g-gotta who's on our technical talent
00:21team and we will be leaning on his
00:25technical talent for part of this
00:28so Benedict let's start with you you you
00:30were just up there in Moscone Center in
00:32the in the scrum and you've gone to
00:35plenty of these events and you have a
00:36way of sort of mapping them out explain
00:39that to us and then let's just jump into
00:41it so I tend to think about these kinds
00:44of events as splitting into three
00:46categories so first of all the stuff
00:49that is a nice incremental improvement
00:52if you're used to the platform like
00:54something cool happens in the calendar
00:55something cool happens in the way the
00:56processor works or something and that's
00:58all that's great that just kind of
01:00happens as the kind of general the
01:02evolution of the product right and
01:03there's a bunch of stuff in the i/o iOS
01:06and they'll be a bunch of stuff at
01:06Google i/o in a couple of weeks I think
01:09then there's two more categories one is
01:11stuff that does kind of consumer-facing
01:13features so you can go out and build
01:15marketing campaigns about sort of ten
01:16pull features and the other are
01:20fundamental strategic moves by the
01:22platform owner and sometimes those are
01:24the same thing and sometimes they're not
01:25sometimes they're kind of distinct and
01:27so looking at what Apple announced I
01:30think there's a bunch of things that
01:32sort of fit into some or both of those
01:34categories so they and some of them are
01:38sort of in the first one so they did a
01:39major revamp of the Photos app so that
01:41now all of your photos are stored in the
01:43cloud you don't even have to think about
01:44storage on your thing right so you could
01:45call that one or you could call that -
01:46they might market it they might not more
01:50interesting from a kind of industry
01:51point of view is that both the wearable
01:54story and the home Internet of Things
01:56story turned out to be true so Apple is
01:58using bluetooth early and its local
02:01discovery stack and a sort of a central
02:03API story to store all the stuff from
02:07your health related wearables in a
02:10just all that any app on your phone can
02:11access with permission and that those
02:13any app on the phone is therefore has an
02:15incentive to provide data into sure and
02:18today they announced just specifically
02:20on the health side and also on the
02:21health kit yes both for health and for
02:23home so there's a stack for as a set of
02:25stuff for where wearable health things
02:27where you have an app on your phone that
02:29collects all the data from all the
02:30different wearable health things that
02:31you have and that then provides that as
02:34a as a sort of an accessible speed of
02:36data store to a Nike app or any other
02:39app that might want to use those and
02:41secondly they've done something similar
02:43although we haven't seen so much detail
02:44around managing Internet connected
02:48devices in your home so lock the garage
02:50door opener the thermostat and they put
02:53up a big slide with a list of 30
02:54different companies logos except of
02:56course for nest and Google right and so
02:59those at both I'm they're both a symptom
03:02of what I've talked about before which
03:03is that you see Apple because it
03:04controls the whole widget moving down
03:06the stack and leveraging Bluetooth early
03:10in particular but leveraging the fact
03:11that it knows exactly what's on the
03:13device and exactly how it's going to
03:14work so that stuff can actually be done
03:15in a predictable way the other thing
03:17that they've done on that in that line
03:18incidentally is add an API to the
03:20fingerprint scanner and they gave a
03:21number that I think it was 83% of all
03:24iPhone 5s users use a fingerprint
03:26scanner and so they're now going to have
03:28a kind of a secure API so any app on
03:30your phone can ask the question is this
03:32Michael yes no and get a response right
03:34it could be used banks could be used for
03:36that could be used to anything right
03:37just as an alternative to entering your
03:38your password should even opening my my
03:41door at home right yeah potentially yes
03:43yeah now it's not interestingly an
03:46identity platform because the
03:47third-party app can't use that data to
03:49see that you're Michael oh so it doesn't
03:51see my actual fingerprint no it doesn't
03:53see your fingerprint it doesn't know
03:54that you're Michael all it does is sort
03:56of ask can you please verify this but
03:59this fingerprint relates to this login
04:00yes or no so it's not a so you get a new
04:03phone install space install an entirely
04:06new social app scan your fingerprint in
04:08and therefore get your profile ID
04:09because I third-party doesn't get that
04:11information they just get a yes/no
04:12response from the API it's like you know
04:15an AP it's like iTunes you know the app
04:17doesn't get an app doesn't get your
04:18itunes password it just gets the iTunes
04:20Store saying yes you are
04:21to do that I see um so there's those
04:24things which are sort of user facing and
04:26you can see resulting in a whole bunch
04:29of interesting innovation and then
04:30there's two other things one of them is
04:34what they call extensions which is a way
04:37for third-party apps to hook themselves
04:39much more deeply into the system much
04:41more control tonight Android didn't see
04:42there's an obvious responses well
04:44androids always had that and the other
04:46was all Android never tried to stop
04:47people from doing that which is a point
04:51here so Apple has given a bunch of quite
04:54controlled ways that a third-party app
04:55can offer services within the system so
04:58you can send a photo twenty-year at 20
05:01app now in you can send any app also can
05:04add itself to a menu to provide services
05:06so the example they give is you're on a
05:07webpage you press a service button and
05:10then you've got being translate there as
05:11an option so instead of you having to
05:13then open the Bing app and then load the
05:15page into it open the Google app and
05:16load the page into it and so the funny
05:19thing here is of course this is
05:21basically giving Google and Facebook a
05:22whole list of ways to get the hooks
05:24deeper and wider so this is a good thing
05:26for Google and Facebook you know this is
05:28you know there is going to be a share
05:30this photo to Facebook button and I
05:31share this photo to Instagram button and
05:33a you know send this link via what's
05:35that button and a whole bunch of other
05:37things that of course are very tightly
05:39under the users control in a way that
05:40they aren't necessarily on Android right
05:42I'm better there and what Apple is also
05:45doing is they're allowing third-party
05:46widgets onto the home screen and they're
05:48allowing in but few other bits and
05:51pieces so for example there's a story
05:53around photo editing so third-party apps
05:55can call you pin to a photo app can
05:57invoke another photo app what did you
05:59edit and so you know again it's a bit
06:01like multitasking that Apple is doing
06:03something that was on Android like three
06:04years earlier and they're trying to do
06:07it without that or picking a different
06:08set of trade-offs so it's more
06:10controlled but then you don't have the
06:13security implications and Dave chimed in
06:16here to bit you know Apple's famous for
06:18for having that controllin and their
06:20argument for a long time had been that
06:22like without that control we couldn't
06:24make the experience as you know
06:25wonderful as we'd like it to be at Apple
06:28how is it that they do you sort of
06:31describe this a little bit as a
06:32loosening of that control and why are
06:34to do it and still have the experience
06:37that they they want it seems like some
06:40of the things that Benedict was talking
06:41about I think there probably are share
06:43buttons for already so they're already
06:44sort of cooperating or facilitating
06:47potential competitors to do stuff so
06:49this just opens it up to other ones
06:51unforeseen competitors so yeah I mean I
06:53think there's a couple of bits here I
06:54think one of my impressions from the
06:56event was that Apple has can't I mean
06:59any company that isn't doing something
07:01you think they should do it's either
07:03they've decided not to do it or they
07:04haven't got the resource to do it or
07:05it's on the roadmap but it's not ready
07:07yet but it feels like what happened to
07:09Apple today was they were like five or
07:11six major project small hit the end of
07:13their waterfall today so there was a
07:16whole set of questions around what is he
07:18sharing in the passing of information
07:20between absolute like and that wasn't
07:21finished last year right and you could
07:23instead of see looking at iOS 7 there's
07:25like placeholders for this stuff that
07:26aren't that that wouldn't be there if
07:28they hadn't been planning to do this and
07:30you know an API for the fingerprint
07:32scanner well they didn't launch a
07:33fingerprint scanner last year and the
07:34world would make sure they were getting
07:35it get it get it right so a bunch of
07:37this is just timing I would suspect
07:39things it's kind of more Dave's area
07:41than me that a bunch of this is also
07:42kind of Moore's law rather you know
07:44you've mostly the more CPU you've got
07:46the more things you can put inside of
07:47sandbox instead of letting them run on
07:48bare metal right and so quite a lot of
07:50it may be to do with that that they just
07:52say just feel like they can control it
07:54and have a good experience whereas you
07:57know if you wanted to happen at all five
07:58years ago you don't have to had it
07:59completely uncontrolled yeah and then
08:01which is sort of the Android experience
08:03right if you just go at it and you know
08:04let's see how it works yeah and then
08:06they'll see the final thing is the new
08:08programming language called Swift and I
08:10think John Gruber said on Twitter during
08:12the event basically a third of the room
08:14was sitting going completely quiet
08:16saying I've absolutely no idea what
08:17these people are talking about which is
08:18saccadic we always say Oh new
08:20programming there which and the other
08:21two things of the room are going to
08:22bizarre yeah and the other huh and to
08:24the other two-thirds of em okay wow wow
08:26wow we were we were joking about curly
08:30braces and and Dave this is where we
08:34Swift as it was described as objective-c
08:36without the objective or without the CIA
08:39I can't remember which but tell us from
08:41yeah and granted they just announced
08:43today and it was a surprise to everyone
08:44you know what it starts to look like and
08:48rolling out sure if you know I've
08:50obvious I know let me look at it for a
08:52little while but I see that to me it
08:54seems like they've tried to take the the
08:56very interesting features from other
08:57languages and incorporate them into
08:59development environments so I just
09:02looking through the documents like that
09:03before there's features of Python Ruby
09:07JavaScript go and even hints of
09:10languages like Java and Lisp that
09:12they've incorporated into it which is
09:14sort of you know amazing to have touched
09:17so many different interesting features
09:18we talked about you guys like teasing
09:21about curly braces another one also
09:22maybe in the punctuation category would
09:25be semicolons you know traditionally
09:27Objective C has to have semicolon
09:29theater of every line so if doesn't seem
09:31to have that again you might say who
09:32cares but programmers argue about this
09:34stuff too to no end so it's interesting
09:37they've added that in another I think
09:39really interesting productivity feature
09:41and this is clearly definitely in
09:42benedict's third category of fundamental
09:44sort of things is the so called repple
09:46or read evaluate print loop which is
09:48really importantly developing code and
09:50sitting to like make your change
09:52compile it build it copy it over see did
09:55that work or not you can just see what's
09:57the effect immediately as you're doing
09:58which helps you know trim that
10:00development side so the example in the
10:02keynote was he was building a game and
10:04there was a blimp and you could actually
10:05see the changes you were making to the
10:07to the app and to the blimp Ezzat right
10:09as you were doing it exactly and this is
10:11the thing that people you know that love
10:13languages like Python or Ruby love to
10:15have they just get to see it as they're
10:16building it and also it's useful to try
10:18something out without changing things
10:20around too much so that one other
10:22observation I had about it was it looks
10:24very much to me as if this was built you
10:27know it's a programming language it was
10:28built by programmers obviously but for
10:30programmers I think sometimes people try
10:32to think what could we do for our users
10:34that would you know well we sort of know
10:36best what our users want let's build
10:38that for them well it felt to me at
10:39least like they're building this for
10:40themselves as well tell apples own
10:42efforts as opposed to telly
10:44here's a kit you go use this we'll use
10:45the real real stuff you guys can use
10:47this sort of dumb down limited thing and
10:49it doesn't feel like that exactly
10:52totally yeah it's a pretty exciting MIT
10:54I want it I know your guys are clearly
10:55thinking on that second to third scan
10:58Benedikt like you know the strategic
11:00point of it is why like what is this do
11:02their developers they said they already
11:03had their own programming development
11:05language already I mean there was a
11:08chart that I was looking at that there
11:09where they've got a 2 by 2 matrix of
11:10developer productivity versus our
11:12performance and say you've got you know
11:14Ruby and Python and JavaScript and so on
11:16with high productivity and low
11:18performance right and obviously C and
11:19Objective C and so on in the other
11:21corner great for Monsanto productivity
11:23and they're claiming that this is in the
11:24top right yeah it's the evil based
11:26productivity and the performance yeah I
11:27think there's something to be said but I
11:28think another thing too is people do you
11:30know there's these are developers have
11:32preferences of course about what they're
11:34writing in so try by trying to
11:35acknowledge the really good nice
11:38developer features that exist in these
11:39other languages by incorporating those I
11:41think it helps helps win people over so
11:43is this something that is going to be
11:46constrained in the Apple world does it
11:48just makes it easier than ever for folks
11:50to write apps for iOS or OS X but are we
11:53gonna start to see it outside the Apple
11:55world you you asked me a question
11:56earlier and even I've had time to think
11:58about I don't know it seems like this is
11:59very dependent on apples you know Apple
12:02systems so I don't know if they could
12:03easily take it outside the world or even
12:05if they'd want to but but it would
12:07appeal certainly would appeal to me if
12:09they could let you know let us use this
12:10environment for other things other than
12:12OS X and iOS and one suspicion is that
12:15you know once we people really pick over
12:16it will there'll be a bunch of things
12:18around how this fits into Apple's sort
12:19of 10-15 year roadmap of you know
12:21because Objective C has been around more
12:2315 years probably more than that yeah
12:24and so there may be a bunch of sort of
12:26things that it lets them do that they
12:27couldn't do before right yep I'm the
12:30other interesting developer story is
12:31iCloud Drive I mean we've all heard the
12:34story of Steve Jobs meeting drew Houston
12:37and saying that's not a feature and you
12:41know now Apple after going through a
12:43period where they wanted to get away
12:45from the file system is cliff I want it
12:47cuz Apple basically invented the idea of
12:48having like a visible tangible file
12:50system where you touch things and move
12:51files around and then last couple of
12:54years I try to get away without an iOS
12:55obviously didn't have a file system at
12:56all because I was going to be much
12:57simpler and much easier for people to
12:59understand and up to a point it was but
13:02we will sort of end up you either use
13:03Dropbox or you know you start putting
13:05PDFs into programs that aren't into one
13:08file and Word documents into another
13:10right and you think it's kind of be kind
13:13of nice to have just a place or I could
13:15just read stuff like that that PDF and
13:17those photos and that word document and
13:19that spreadsheet and that thing that I
13:21need to have and now they've done it so
13:23now you have iCloud Drive and it works
13:25well I had said was I brought pops you
13:27know it's a folder you put stuff in and
13:28it's on all of it is on all of your
13:30and as an extension to that and
13:32therefore Apple is now sort of broken
13:34apart the file sandbox a bit because it
13:36now means that apps can access documents
13:38created another drop in other apps which
13:40is where works on computers as a decimal
13:42computers as opposed to the way it works
13:44on a as traditionally what and IRS so if
13:47it's like Apple are kind of backing off
13:49a little bit from the absolutism of you
13:50there should not be a user accessible
13:52file system at all right well and and
13:55what does that say about sort of Mac and
13:58OSX versus the iOS world I mean how are
14:01the sort of relative importance of those
14:02things you know being described and what
14:05was announced today well we we haven't
14:07talked about Mac OS at all yeah that's
14:10one clue right and you know Apple spent
14:12the first hour talking about Mac OS and
14:15you know from the kind of the broader
14:17technology industry they've said they've
14:20got 80 million install base of 80
14:22million of which 40 million or on
14:23Mavericks and that's like a high
14:24percentage in Windows 8 then there's a
14:26lot more Windows 8 devices out there
14:28than there are Mac's because as you know
14:31something like one and a half billion
14:32right he sees out there right so you
14:35know for Apple the Mac matters and for
14:37developers the Mac matters but for and
14:39for us because we all use maximum at has
14:41been a great wide world of the enormous
14:43transformation the technology industry
14:45and media industry and the whole
14:46industry in general by mobile the Mac is
14:49kind of irrelevant um so yes there's a
14:53bunch of nice stuff in there and they've
14:54basically revised Mac OS to clean up all
14:58the kind of crufts that had accrued over
15:00the last 10-15 years in much the same
15:02way that did they did with iOS last year
15:04with iOS 7 and the you know they've tied
15:06it and they cleaned they've systematized
15:08and they've made it all kind of make
15:09sense again and they've done a couple of
15:11really nice things like um you know you
15:13can now use airdrop to send files
15:15wirelessly from your phone to your Mac
15:18and the kind of a cunning thing is and
15:19this is maybe also strategic maybe they
15:21have this thing called convergence
15:23where if you have an app on your face if
15:26you have a webpage open on your Mac or a
15:28and iWork document open on your Mac you
15:31have a little icon on your phone in your
15:32iPad that relates to that so you tap on
15:34that icon on your iPad and your iPad
15:36will open up with us and webpage you'll
15:38that's a document and I mean the kind of
15:42the really tangible use cases you can
15:44highlight a phone number on web page and
15:47select dial and your phone will dial it
15:48and we've all been in that learn where
15:51you ran up you're looking at the phone
15:53number on the webpage and dialing it
15:54with your hand array okay four one five
15:57eight two no 83 and they solve that you
16:02also can use your phone your Mac as a
16:05court to dial the phone number to
16:07receive a call to use it as a
16:08speakerphone to get caller ID you can
16:10send not just iMessage but SMS from your
16:12Mac over your phone so you're basically
16:14turning these things into devices that
16:16will work together and kind of
16:17understand that they're in the same room
16:19and made by the same company which it's
16:21a sort of thing that it's one of those
16:22things it feels like it should have done
16:23that 15 music the point is for Apple for
16:25all of this stuff it's about drunk
16:26driving driving the devices right and
16:28you're coming back to the point I may
16:29know you about you know Apple of giving
16:30Google and Facebook all sorts of hooks
16:32into that platform well that's fine but
16:33they're doing it on a six hundred dollar
16:35device that people have to buy great so
16:37you've said this before that Apple is a
16:39hardware company like their business is
16:41not as complicated as people think and
16:43how does this help them as a hardware
16:45company what you saw today so ok so let
16:49me give you a specific answer and a
16:50general answer I think the specific
16:53answer is that Apple is using cloud and
16:57to some extent Bluetooth le to make rich
17:02native apps do stuff that you feel like
17:05they ought to have been doing forever
17:06mm-hmm so you take a photo on your
17:08iPhone on your Mac it's
17:10I pad you edit it it's on your map yes
17:12on your iPad you you know you changing
17:15dress you add a phone number you
17:16anything that you doing or one device is
17:18on the other device right and it's all
17:21being done through the cloud but they
17:23don't talk about the cloud so it's like
17:26the yum it's sort of the mirror image of
17:28Google where the cloud you know for
17:30Google it's like Marc Andreessen is old
17:32phrase about windows becoming a set of
17:34badly debug device drivers and for
17:36Google any physical object in a sense is
17:39like a set of imperfect device drivers
17:42that kind of do you have to go through
17:44to get to the pure with the pure law of
17:46the cloud right right where is for Apple
17:49it's completely the other way and you
17:50know what sounds like for Apple the PD
17:51device hardware should disappear which
17:53is the ideal at the Chromebook hardware
17:55the software just disappear initial be
17:56in the cloud and for Apple is completely
17:58yellow around so why the hell should you
17:59have to know that it's sitting on a
18:01server in what in rural Oregon or
18:02something you know is she just you know
18:04she just a the photo and the fairly she
18:05just be that and you shouldn't have to
18:07worry about you've taken 35 gigaphoto s
18:09and you've only got a 16 gig phone the
18:11phone that is that you'd ever think okay
18:13that's being stored on that Google Plus
18:15account or like iCloud account it's just
18:17that and that's a very different
18:19approach to to to Google this is
18:22reminding me a little bit of Sun which I
18:24would say also a hardware company where
18:25they realize Java might help them help
18:27their hardware business so long but
18:28feels like they didn't take it far
18:30enough too much of it was left to the
18:31developer left to you know people to
18:34figure how to take advantage of the
18:35hardware and I think apples shown you
18:37can have good a hardware I would agree
18:38they are a hardware company and hey look
18:40it looks great together you don't need
18:41to worry about all those gory details
18:43it'll but basically work so I think
18:45that's that smart that helps cement
18:46their hardware position I think I mean
18:49to the the broader point here is apples
18:53kind of got a lock on the high-end
18:54business they sell the phones that an
18:57average of $600 in an industry that
18:59averages a hundred which is about 180
19:01and what average is about two hundred
19:03and fifty and in the high-end space they
19:07have as it might be two-thirds to
19:08three-quarters of the market and Samsung
19:10has most of the rest right and a certain
19:13number of people switch every year and
19:16rather more switch from Android
19:19switchbacks and there's kind of a
19:20ratchet effect going on there that
19:21apples are slowly gaining share in that
19:23space and in the u.s. they've got half
19:25the market because the subsidy
19:27environment means that there's no cheap
19:28Androids even the iPhone 4s is basically
19:32free in the US market so they've got
19:33that lock on that high-end market and
19:35what all of this stuff does collectively
19:37is as every kind of is the kind of the
19:40and as the the same as what happens with
19:43an iPhone releases once a year Apple
19:45jump forward and set a new bar and for
19:48the next six to nine months Android in
19:50the Android OEMs catch up and then for
19:53the next three to six months no head
19:55right and then Apple jumps forward again
19:58so this is kind of zigzag you know
19:59there's a period of three to six months
20:01where the best phone in the market is
20:02and Android does load cool stuff that
20:04Apple doesn't do and then it lets back
20:06again um but what this doesn't do is
20:09change that dynamic you know Apple
20:12continues to do make the best hard
20:13amongst the best hardware in the market
20:15and about one of the two best operating
20:17systems on the market depending on your
20:18personal taste and your personal
20:19preferences or parties that you have but
20:21they make it at six hundred dollars and
20:24there's a very large number of people in
20:27the world who like a smart phone and
20:29actually quite like to do apps and
20:30aren't spending $600 on a phone now in
20:34the US the only people buying more and
20:36the great majority that let me phrase
20:38this slightly differently in the u.s.
20:39because the price premium is so small
20:41most of the people who aren't using
20:42iPhone are doing it because they don't
20:43terribly care very much right then the
20:45rest of the world there's an awful lot
20:46of people who care quite a lot and can't
20:48afford no phone and the only thing that
20:50really changes that dynamic is a phone
20:52an alert price it's a phone app for the
20:55sake of argument $300 at which point you
20:58can go and buy a really really nice
21:00product a really good build quality and
21:02a really good screen nice performance
21:03it's just not a $600 phone you know
21:05you're buying a you know you're buying a
21:08Ford and not BMW and you know nobody
21:10sits in a Ford and says to you this is a
21:11crappy car it's just not to be involving
21:13right and that's the kind of the driving
21:15dynamic of the phone business for the
21:17last two three four years there's a
21:20certain um people you buy premium
21:21products and there's a certain number of
21:23people who don't and appear amongst the
21:25people who buy premium products all this
21:27stuff that Apple does drives their
21:28and no as it might be to solstice we
21:31called ourselves them prefer the choices
21:32that Apple makes to the choices at
21:33Google make some choices a Samsung make
21:36but there's a whole other conversation
21:39that Apple is not really engaging with
21:40yet and so I think that's the kind of
21:42the super-high level point that Apple is
21:44just kind of maintaining the status quo
21:45they're not actually changing the
21:47conversation well the rest of the
21:49conversation will be happening pretty
21:50soon with Google's version of WWC well
21:54yeah I mean and this that comes back to
21:57my point that his Apple put his stuff
21:59down into the into the hardware and the
22:01integration and the 64 which ship in the
22:03fingerprint scanner and you know almost
22:07how can I put it either the thing I said
22:09in another context that a lot of what's
22:12going on now is turning start creating
22:13gun blasts so TV is done glass or car
22:17the display in a car is done glass and
22:18the smart of somewhere else but another
22:21part of entertaining the cloud into dumb
22:23cloud dumb of storage uh-huh you know
22:25say what Apple is doing what Google is
22:27doing is they say well the device is
22:28dumb glass and all the cool stuffs
22:30happening in the cloud and what Apple is
22:32doing it said I know that the cloud is
22:34just dumb storage and yeah I mean it's a
22:36bit more to her than that but you know
22:38basically the cloud of storage you'd
22:39have to think about that you've got this
22:41fantastic device that does all these
22:42wonderful things clearly there's there's
22:44two worlds that want it you know dumb
22:47storage and those that want you know
22:48just beautiful devices and and then
22:50there's the Android fans so we'll we'll
22:53get that side of the story at i/o and I
22:56know Benedict you're going to be there
22:58and Dave will bring you back but I want
23:01to thank both of you for breaking down
23:03WWDC and that's the a 16z podcast cool
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