00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland and we have a really
00:04interesting lineup of folks here today
00:07I'll start with one of our visitors
00:10who's come from the farthest away I
00:12think David Matt and who's introduced
00:14strategy and advisor in Myanmar David
00:17welcome thanks Michael it's great to be
00:19here and joining us also is a mo who is
00:21a co-founder of Baden which is a
00:25start-up here in Silicon Valley in
00:27Mountain View but you are also
00:28originally from Myanmar and an engineer
00:30and a technologist so and on the line is
00:34Ethan Zuckerman director of the Center
00:36for civic media at the MIT Media Lab
00:39Ethan welcome so as you can tell this
00:43this this conversation is sort of
00:46focused in Southeast Asia and on
00:47technology in other parts of the world
00:49and you know inter news maybe David
00:51let's start with you you guys have some
00:53some news that you guys broke tell us a
00:56little bit about that and give us some
00:58context for what you're doing in Myanmar
01:01yeah well thanks again for having us
01:03Michael it's it's great to be here today
01:06yes so for those of you who don't know
01:10about engineers in turn uses as an
01:12international NGO has been going for bid
01:14over 30 years works about 90 different
01:17countries around the world and its
01:20mission really is to empower people
01:23through better access to information and
01:26so India news has been working in
01:29Myanmar for about 12 years now and a lot
01:34of the work that it has done in the
01:36early part of its time in Myanmar has
01:37been focused on you know what you might
01:41refer to as traditional media but there
01:43is this incredibly interesting thing
01:45happening in Myanmar right now which is
01:47a connectivity revolution it's
01:49liberalized its telecommunications
01:52market and now suddenly there are four
01:55well-funded telcos racing to put a
01:58smartphone in the hands of Myanmar's
02:0150 1.4 million people so this is
02:04creating this really interesting
02:06opportunity to use to use technology in
02:10waise so we have just launched the
02:14Myanmar innovation green house this is a
02:17physical space that's going to bring
02:21technology together with civil society
02:23and independent media to build the kind
02:27of technology tools and platforms that
02:30are going to accelerate change and
02:31development in Myanmar
02:33so it's really exciting mo you come from
02:37Myanmar so give us a bit of the
02:38background as David mentioned you know
02:40this is a country that was closed off
02:41for a long time and has opened up
02:43recently both in terms of its borders
02:45but then you know both physically and
02:47now digitally why does the change meant
02:52to you and as you've seen it happen you
02:55know where are we today and where were
02:57we you know 10 years ago probably 10
03:01years ago a lot of you know information
03:05has been restricted censor everything
03:07that you publish everything that you
03:08record any kinds of distributed
03:11information is something that the
03:14government approved all right so there's
03:17this weird gap in the feelings or people
03:22where they are allowed to talk about and
03:24write about things that may be not quite
03:27in line with governments you know
03:30official messages and that's been really
03:33strange to see especially people in our
03:35generation that grew up where you know
03:38no access to outside of the world and no
03:41access to written media that may be
03:44slightly critical of the government ever
03:47and then boom everything opens up and
03:49you are seeing journalists bloggers
03:51independent media that's going out and
03:54talking about things and looking into
03:56things and something that's never
04:00happened before right so if you imagine
04:0210 years ago I always compare it to 1984
04:06George Rawls book is very close to truth
04:10that's what I grew up with people have a
04:11little bit of a fear of you know saying
04:14anything slightly wrong so then it goes
04:18from there to now you can talk about a
04:22the funny thing is when you grew up with
04:25like everything is controlled by a state
04:27meteor and the Burmese have a very big
04:32gap between a formal language like
04:35what's written and what you speak so if
04:37you study Burmese you will find this
04:39like slightly disconcerting way of
04:43expressing their ideas when they are
04:45writing versus when they are talking and
04:48now there's a lot of informal meteors
04:50and things and like interviews and
04:52people are talking about ideas and I'm
04:55actually kind of like I don't actually
04:56know how to write this kind of blogging
05:01free demo information and like a lot of
05:04you know things that people usually say
05:07you kind of use some sort of euphemism
05:08or things that are that will go slightly
05:12under the radar for the government
05:14censor now you can say explicitly hey
05:17this is what I think or hey this is
05:18what's wrong with the country or what's
05:21wrong with the system I think there is
05:24actually like adjustment period one of
05:27us to get to hey you don't have to write
05:30so formally you don't have to be so
05:32strict about how you communicate so I
05:35think that's fascinating
05:36I mean what's fascinating - boom sounds
05:38like the right word where you know all
05:40the sudden you know you go from a very
05:43sort of closed society and technology
05:45was very closely held and I just want to
05:47know and David please chime in you know
05:48and Ethan you as well when that that
05:52kind of unveiling happens how does
05:54technology manifest itself and how do
05:57people adjust it must be you know we
05:59have this sort of incremental iOS 6 to
06:01iOS 7 200 s 8 and all the sudden you go
06:05from 0 to 5000 what happens
06:08well wit we we're discovering it like
06:12literally right now so until about 8
06:17weeks ago there was only the government
06:20owned state telco that was the only
06:22provider and just in the last eight
06:25weeks you've had these two new
06:27international telcos launched in
06:30and one more is coming and suddenly now
06:34a simcard doesn't cost you 250 dollars
06:38which is what it costs when I landed in
06:40Myanmar now you can get one for a dollar
06:43fifty and so you have lines around the
06:45block like you would for the iPhone 6
06:49but as people are lining up to get a SIM
06:51card and it's incredible it's incredible
06:55thing to see because people are these
06:57are not people who have had landlines
06:59I mean people basically had no phones in
07:01Myanmar and now they do and so how does
07:05this manifest itself what does it look
07:07like well it's interesting because for
07:12many people who are connected in me
07:15aren't still a small percentage of the
07:17population but Facebook is the Internet
07:20right it's almost like it's almost like
07:22AOL in the late 90s here in the States
07:25ah whereas you've got this kind of wall
07:27garden everything sort of takes place on
07:29Facebook or what do you like about the
07:31internet I just I use Facebook great you
07:33know but it's it's really interesting
07:36because you know viber is just setting
07:39up a country rep actually in in Myanmar
07:42and they just visited last month and
07:44viber is a carrier is a viber the the
07:48the the over-the-top service okay it
07:52competes with whatsapp and line and M
07:56was Emma Skye Pia and and so Facebook
08:01has I mean Facebook has about 2.2
08:04million people online in in yama
08:08facebook users um but viber announced
08:11just just in august that they had five
08:14million users and what's the difference
08:17well you don't need an email address to
08:22all you need is you all you need is just
08:24SIM card so people don't have an email
08:27address to sign up for Facebook is
08:28actually easier to sign up for a service
08:30like viber and it works so well for
08:33transferring files and making calls and
08:35things so there's all these really
08:37interesting things that we're gonna see
08:38as sort of fifty 1.4 million people
08:42suddenly come online Ethan you know have
08:45you seen this in other parts of the
08:47world and and what might and well what
08:49might be we start to see in Myanmar and
08:52what might be different well that's
08:58Myanmar to a certain extent is
09:01which is a it's hard to think of a
09:03society that was as close as Myanmar is
09:07opening to technology as much and as
09:10quickly we've had countries that have
09:13been as close but they've open up much
09:15more slowly so for instance we've
09:17watched Cuba have the rise of the mobile
09:20Internet and the rise of the blogosphere
09:21and a really interesting political
09:24culture but they've opened up very very
09:26slowly we've seen various other
09:30developing nations build but they
09:33haven't built an online fear sort of
09:36coming out of a space of heavy
09:38censorship and then suddenly in the
09:40openness so this idea of sort of
09:42starting from scratch and opening up
09:45very very quickly this is quite new in
09:48the digital age I do think one
09:51interesting thing we can look at how in
09:53the media has already opened so Myanmar
09:57for many many years was the place where
10:00all the trust was state controlled and
10:03what it meant was if you had an
10:05independent publication you had to have
10:07it reviewed by the government before it
10:09went out and that was incredibly
10:11time-consuming and it meant that no one
10:13could publish anything more than a
10:15weekly those regulations changed of the
10:19more than two years ago and we suddenly
10:21had an explosion of daily newspapers at
10:25least seven dailies going out where you
10:28once had none and you suddenly got many
10:32many dozens of weekly publications
10:34coming out so I think one of the first
10:36things to think about is that there's
10:37enormous pent-up demand people who
10:40wanted access to the conforms of
10:42information and are very quickly sort of
10:45moving in to take advantage of the
10:46market and David said though the Myanmar
10:50internet market is pretty unique and
10:55and the ways in which Facebook has a
10:57first mover advantage are quite
11:00interesting if you think about this idea
11:02of if he joined the Internet today
11:05there's a good chance that Facebook was
11:07one of these would be one of the very
11:09major things he would do and I found
11:12experience has been sort of going around
11:14and talking to journalists in Myanmar
11:15they don't talk in terms of pages they
11:18don't talk in terms of readers the top
11:20in terms of life and on the one hand
11:23it's Facebook has been a quick way
11:25online for them on the other hand in
11:27this closed environment and so for
11:29innocent media argument money off of
11:33we're also interesting to see what is it
11:36going to mean as far as people starting
11:38up new tech licenses are they going to
11:41start them around the web environment
11:43that the rest of us who used to or are
11:44they going to start it up more around
11:46from across environment yeah I mean you
11:48don't see again it's early days and mo
11:51jump in here you don't see it sort of as
11:55a mobile focused kind of app based push
11:59is it still kind of the web and the
12:01desktop or what's what's as it leapt
12:04over that immediately I think it's just
12:06kind of skipped over there would be a
12:08lot of Burmese people who have never had
12:09a desktop on her laptop but only know
12:12what Internet is through mobile by for
12:15them internet means something on your
12:18phone that you can access to information
12:20outside of what you can get it so moat
12:24tell us a little bit about how you know
12:25you came to Mountain View you're an
12:28engineer how did you end up here so I
12:32started learning Toccoa when I was about
12:35that team back in Burma and it was like
12:37an after-school program that the school
12:40just had and I was like oh of course I
12:42want to learn it was just fun and I
12:44learned how to code and basic honor 386
12:52then I was waiting to go to college I
12:56graduated from high school in nineteen
12:58eighty nineteen ninety-eight and there
13:00was an event in 1988 that basically led
13:04to complete anarchy and that shut down
13:08so when you graduate from around the
13:11time when I was graduating from high
13:13school you have to wait about two to
13:15three years before you could go to
13:17college so there's a mandatory gap years
13:20for everybody so I look around and
13:23decided I'm going to study more
13:25programming and computer science on my
13:27own so I did took a lot of like private
13:30classes and just hang out with a bunch
13:32of friends who are into the same thing
13:35then interestingly it was actually a
13:38journalist who came to United States to
13:43Harvard and pH and he found out that
13:45even if you are a foreign student you
13:48could get financial aid or a scholarship
13:51to go to universities here because I
13:54never thought about going out of the
13:55country to study because there's no way
13:58my parents could afford the tuition that
14:01you know so he he found out that hey you
14:06could be a foreign student you could get
14:08financially he came back to the to the
14:10to Burma and he started holding this
14:13private little seminars and telling kids
14:16like us hey if you want to study outside
14:18of the country you could actually apply
14:20for financial aid and there are NEEP
14:22NEEP line admission process so I apply
14:26maybe within like from the day he told
14:29me to the day I got an admission letter
14:32from MIT was probably a total of four
14:34months or so so you went to MIT for
14:36college I did and I did computer science
14:39then mostly for visa reasons and stuff I
14:44started working at big tech companies
14:45kept going from really big companies to
14:49smaller and smaller until I started my
14:51own so we started the company in Boston
14:54with two other co-founders then move
14:58west like so many other startups so
15:02we've been here about four years now and
15:04it's been great so what was coding as a
15:09woman as a young woman in in Myanmar was
15:12that unusual were you one of you no no a
15:14few it was not it was not the first
15:17class that I actually took one of his 13
15:20woman and that's one thing that is very
15:23interesting to me is again Burma has
15:26been closer for so long and historically
15:30is a matriarchal society so we haven't
15:32had a chance to get influenced by a lot
15:35of Disney princess phenomenon right so
15:39it seems pretty normal to us to see
15:42professor surgeons a lot of people are
15:47being run by women and that seems normal
15:49we never actually had like kind of the
15:52talk that we see here where women don't
15:54really go into engineering or science
15:56stuff also in like you know Burmese
16:00legends and stuff the princesses are the
16:02ones who teach at university so that's
16:04the kind of interesting contrast for
16:07somebody who grew up that way with a
16:09very closed society and then went
16:13straight to the kind of the high-tech
16:16environment here and as a start-up
16:19founder it seems very interesting to
16:21hear all kinds of you know women in tech
16:23issue well the the princesses you're
16:25teaching who start companies that's a
16:26Disney movie I would like to see so
16:30David the innovation green house
16:33what are you setting up there who comes
16:37or who will come I should say maybe it's
16:40open doors already but explain to us
16:43what you guys have are building and then
16:45how you hope it sort of gets out there
16:48in the world in Myanmar yeah well as I'm
16:52sure even we'll be able to talk about in
16:55more detail we've seen around the world
16:58how powerful these spaces these ICT hubs
17:02can be for harnessing technology and
17:07during the course of this year through
17:10our initiative Code for change Myanmar
17:12we've run the country's first-ever
17:14hackathons and so we've really seen
17:17firsthand just how much potential there
17:20is to use technology for social change
17:22and for development can I just ask a
17:25Thon's did you have a problem that you
17:27presented to folks did you have a themed
17:28or is it just a sort of like okay guys
17:30let's go yeah no absolutely we so
17:33the first hackathon which we were told
17:35by table everyone was the first ever
17:38hackathon in Yama so we called it on
17:40Mars first day of a hackathon we
17:43actually went out to the NGO community
17:46to the civil society community and we
17:48told them we were going to hold this
17:49event and we asked them to submit the
17:52challenges and the problems for the
17:54event and so we had everything from how
17:57would you use new technology to reach
17:59hard to reach sex workers through to how
18:02might you use technology to inform
18:05farmers about the outbreak of pests or
18:08diseases and so we had eight problems
18:11mitad by ngos and we gathered together
18:1676 designers and developers to work on
18:20these and I think we really saw it at
18:23that hackathon in March Wow you know for
18:26any naysayer out there like it's clear
18:28that there is real potential here for
18:30doing this kind of work in Myanmar and
18:32so that really the genesis of the of the
18:34innovation green house and I think the
18:36idea behind the innovation green house
18:38is that we're going to actually create a
18:40space that's going to be a permanent
18:42physical home for this kind of
18:44collaboration between different parts of
18:47Myanmar society that are critical to its
18:49change and development so talking
18:52specifically about the technology
18:54community coming together with civil
18:56society and with independent media to
19:00create the kind of products that we know
19:02can increase the impact that these
19:05change agents are engaged in even you
19:07know can you tell us what what what
19:10evidence there is that these hubs these
19:12kinds of kind of focused locations work
19:16where else are we seeing it and what
19:19sure well there's a pretty terrific
19:22successor in my row be random incubator
19:26called the I hub and the I hub was put
19:31together sort of as the home office and
19:34then sort of public event space for a
19:37company called Ushahidi which is a
19:39Kenyan open-source software company that
19:42I share the board of and the folks in
19:45heating he quickly figured out
19:47that they wanted to be able to convene
19:50and many of the folks working on
19:53technology in Kenya as possible create
19:56sort of a focal point for people who
19:59wanted to work on technology in Kenya
20:01create a place where people could come
20:03together into a physical space and share
20:05ideas and sort of find the ability to
20:07make teams and that project has now spun
20:11out over 50 startups it's become the hub
20:16of not just sort of desktop development
20:19service life cell phones on the mobile
20:21phone development and a lot of other
20:24types of tech hacking within not just
20:27Kenya but mini-city East Africa as a
20:30whole and in fact that whole
20:32neighborhood of Nairobi has sort of now
20:34turned into the cool place to run a
20:36startup so it turns out that when you
20:39are just starting out the technical
20:42economy in a country it's great to have
20:47a cool open space that brings in people
20:50from the outside it's really useful for
20:53people visiting for not by the country
20:55to have a place where they can go meet
20:57people involved in the startup space so
21:01all of that said it doesn't work
21:03everywhere and the folks behind I Hub
21:06have to go out and sit extend yeah I've
21:10been across the African continent and
21:13they've done it mostly in partnership
21:15and in some countries have gone very
21:17very well in some countries had a harder
21:19time it turns out that what we really
21:22need is a strong pre-existing tech
21:25community that was looking for a seed
21:29crystal and I think me and Mark does
21:31have that as evidenced by how much
21:34turnout there have been for the hack
21:36there's currently a lot of times of need
21:38I think the second piece that is
21:40essential and this was going to be
21:41really interesting you know for the
21:45innovation green house is that these
21:47things need to be locally owned and run
21:50eventually and I think as I understand
21:54this a plan around the green house is to
21:57start it with international support it's
21:58just start with coaching from
22:01like engineering the other thunders
22:03behind it but really quickly get to the
22:06point where this is a project coming out
22:09of Myanmar really run by people in
22:11Myanmar and I think that's probably the
22:13best path for success
22:17what role does does government play then
22:20in in kind of pursuing this or or or I
22:24guess advancing this in Myanmar well
22:29that's a really interesting question
22:31Michael I mean I think that you know the
22:38sort of activity that we're seeing now
22:41in Myanmar frankly wouldn't have been
22:44possible without the kind of policy
22:47reforms that this quasi civilian
22:50government has undertaken you know they
22:55conducted this process to issue these
22:58new telco licenses and and that they did
23:01it they did it pretty thoroughly and
23:03pretty professionally and and as a
23:06result of that you now have a much much
23:08more competitive telecommunications
23:11market which is really enabling there to
23:14actually be a market for these new tech
23:16startups and others to go after so
23:18that's pretty fundamental like that
23:20there wouldn't have been any of this
23:22with it without that you know as Mose
23:24said there's been pretty dramatic
23:27changes in the kind of censorship laws
23:28and the restrictions that there's been
23:30on the media in the past now that's not
23:34to say all all is rosy and it's and it's
23:37a done deal and I want to be really
23:38clear about that there are really
23:41serious challenges ahead independent
23:43media for example now needs to figure
23:45out how do we survive how do we make
23:49money how do we get our product
23:51distributed around this country it's a
23:52big country geographically a big country
23:54with pretty poor infrastructure and
23:57their product is critical to the future
23:59of the country but how do they get it
24:01out there how do they how do they take
24:03advantage of this connectivity
24:04revolution without it further
24:05undercutting their business models so so
24:08I think you know some of these changes
24:10that the government had made in these
24:11last couple of years is just absolutely
24:13critical to creating this sort
24:14tunity and there is a very important
24:17like regulatory framework here that has
24:21to operate in I mean the next critical
24:22piece here is going to be about payments
24:25and mobile money and things and you know
24:27the decisions that the government makes
24:29in the next few months about the
24:31regulatory environment for mobile
24:33payments and money absolutely critical
24:36to whether or not we can have a
24:37flourishing tech ecosystem or not I mean
24:41it's going to be a long way and there is
24:44a lot of work to be done just rule of
24:46law and business contracts and things
24:49that are you know taken for granted in
24:52everywhere else in the world we still
24:55have to figure those out right like I
24:57think the two thing the distribution as
25:01speaking as a stouter phone or
25:02distribution and marketplaces are going
25:04to be so essential but at the same time
25:07how do you meaning it has to go beyond
25:09the sort of boundaries of Myanmar or a
25:12boat just even within you more right
25:14like if you build an ad for a firmer and
25:16the firmer doesn't really get to a
25:18bigger city maybe more not more than
25:22once a year so how do you get all these
25:25information out there without a market
25:29place like Google Playstore I don't know
25:31if you can actually list of Emmys app
25:35must be very new it came just um I think
25:39like the day before Eric Schmidt arrived
25:41in the country last year the iTunes
25:48stores still don't have you can't
25:51actually do you know business as a
25:54developer with the Burmese address so
25:56I'm hearing all kinds of scheme to like
25:59actually have Rama's well listing their
26:01apps in Play Store and iTunes Store with
26:04a friend from our set of the country
26:06listing on behalf of them interesting so
26:10I wonder and and even I want to hear
26:12your your your perspective on this but
26:14like you know we talked about how for
26:16for everyone in Myanmar the Internet is
26:18the mobile internet you know journalism
26:21flourishes by sharing them by likes it's
26:24it's a world that in some ways we're
26:27but we haven't even reached that yet are
26:28there things that we can learn you know
26:31as this greenhouse as this experiment
26:33and and as it gathers momentum are there
26:36things that we can learn here in the
26:38United States and in other parts of the
26:39world from from folks like you know you
26:42all I well absolutely I do think there's
26:47a long history of Technology in the
26:50developing world leapfrogging
26:52technology elsewhere and so you know for
26:56those of us who've been following this
26:57for a while Africa was a great
27:00introduction to what a mobile phone the
27:02only world would look like because we
27:06had so many countries in which there
27:07were no landlines and we could watch
27:09what happened when everyone could've
27:11simultaneously moved to mobile and it
27:13was a very interesting shift
27:17Myanmar's now I'm going to have this
27:19experience of never really having dealt
27:22with the desktop Internet and so there
27:25are going to be these interesting
27:26questions the app model where people are
27:29paying modest amounts of money maybe
27:32that captures the market rather than an
27:36ad-supported internet market the ad
27:39market is still pretty early pretty
27:41young Indian law maybe particularly as
27:44payment systems catch on really quickly
27:47maybe we simply end up with entirely
27:49different revenue model it's going to be
27:51really interesting to think about how
27:54people are building and programming it's
27:57not going to be people building on
28:01desktops for desktop it may be a small
28:05group of people building software and
28:08building content for that mobile market
28:10one of the things I'm really interested
28:12in instead of making sure that phenomena
28:15like students in journalism and since
28:17the media catch on a Myanmar because the
28:20media environment is still really
28:22complicated there's not pre press
28:25censorship in the way that went before
28:26but the government is clearly watching
28:29the press very very closely and it is
28:32far from a completely open press so in
28:35some cases that may be watching things
28:38at all more quickly in Lima because
28:40there's no legacy to build on topics and
28:43in some cases it may be sort of
28:45consciously with the innocent how can we
28:48make sure that we end up with the
28:50Internet as a digital public surance and
28:52ensuring that it's a space where we mark
28:56instead of more public issues going
28:58forward if I could just add to that
29:01Michael I think one of the things that
29:05makes what is happening in Myanmar right
29:07now interesting to folks in more
29:10developed markets here in the Bay Area
29:11and elsewhere is that it is Myanmar is
29:16not just sort of mobile only but very
29:20specifically it's going straight to
29:23smartphones like the difference between
29:25when Africa experiences connectivity
29:29revolution and and and now when Myanmar
29:32as experiences connectivity revolution
29:33is that the cost of an android-based
29:36smartphone has fallen so much it's now
29:39cheaper to get an android-based
29:41smartphone you know made in China or
29:44elsewhere then it was to buy a candy bar
29:47phone in Africa back when they were when
29:49they were coming online and so basically
29:52Myanmar is going more or less straight
29:55not just to mobile but straight to
29:57smartphone and you're gonna have 50 1.4
30:00million people experiencing internet and
30:02engaging with the internet for the first
30:04time through smartphones and that is
30:07that's incredible so when people talk
30:10about you know mobile first and
30:11smartphone first that is that's me on
30:14you know anyway any any tech startup
30:17that is serious about Myanmar is the
30:19building for smartphones I'll ask a last
30:22question here of you guys how can people
30:24help how can we all help well we are
30:30really lucky that that a media network
30:34and the Open Society Foundations have
30:37provided some of the critical seed
30:40funding to the Myanmar innovation green
30:42house to get it up and going and that's
30:44enabled us to get this great space at a
30:46great price and to start building a team
30:49and start conducting some of the
30:50activities but we're definitely looking
30:53my help and if any of your listeners
30:55Michael would love to support innovation
30:57in Myanmar we have a little place online
31:00it's WWE gofundme.com /mi green house
31:06so that's GoFundMe comm /mi green house
31:11that's one way they could help you know
31:13another important way is there's
31:15obviously enormous amounts of talent you
31:19know here in States and other other
31:21developed markets and there's a lot of
31:24talk about digital leapfrogging but in
31:28order to do that you need to avoid
31:30reinventing the wheel to mix my
31:34metaphors and to do that you need to you
31:36need to have an understanding of other
31:37things that have worked in other markets
31:39or failed in other markets and so I
31:41guess one of the things that we want to
31:43do with the innovation green house is
31:45that we want to create a global network
31:47of folks who are interested in
31:49innovation in Yama who can offer their
31:51time or their experiences or their
31:53resources in other ways to help make
31:56sure that Myanmar has access to the kind
31:59of knowledge and experiences necessary
32:01to actually perform this digital
32:03leapfrog that's going to be really
32:04important mo when you go back what what
32:08do you hope to see the next time you
32:10visit next time I visit I should
32:12probably stop by and hope to maybe help
32:17run a hackathon so please all right our
32:23company has been fortunate enough to be
32:25profitable and we've been able to donate
32:27money to projects educational projects
32:30in Burma and that was part of our
32:32foundational thesis is when we do make
32:34profits we would so I'm looking forward
32:36to doing something like a education
32:39themed hackathon just also just helping
32:43out any startup entrepreneurs and
32:45started communities that are out there
32:47that wants to start and want to you know
32:50kind of like a digital bridge to Silicon
32:52Valley I'm trying to get a lot of you
32:55know Burmese Nationals in barrier who
32:58are in the startup scene to figure out
33:01how can we be off use in any way from
33:05what we have seen what we have learned
33:06start of employees startup founders
33:09great well Ethan David and moe I want to
33:14thank you guys so much for the
33:15conversation incredibly interesting and
33:17very exciting as well thank you guys
33:19thanks for having us Michael thank you
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