00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast on Michael
00:02Copeland and we are here in San
00:04Francisco in the world headquarters of
00:06honor with Seth Sternberg CEO and sandy
00:10Jen head of engineering one of the heads
00:12of engineering I should say so welcome
00:15guys thank you thanks you guys just came
00:18out of stealth mode you know a matter of
00:20a week or two ago so explain for us at
00:22the high level what honor is and what
00:25honor is doing sure so honors
00:27reinventing in-home care for seniors so
00:31I went for a drive with my mother back
00:33in Connecticut maybe a year and a half
00:35ago now and I just noticed that my
00:37mother wasn't quite as good a driver as
00:38she used to be and that just got my
00:40brain thinking about like wow like what
00:42happens in five years or in 10 years
00:44when you know my mom who was in
00:45Connecticut which is a six-hour plane
00:47flight from me needs help to be able to
00:50stay in her home and my mom loves her
00:51home right so I started looking for ways
00:55to make sure that I never had to have
00:57the conversation with my mom that was
00:59sorry mom it's time to sell your home
01:01and move into assisted living and what I
01:04found is that there are no good ways
01:05today to really help my mom stay in her
01:08home I'd be scared frankly that helped
01:12my mom I'm going to have my mom use the
01:14current set of services that are out
01:15there for her you know at best I'd have
01:18to fly to Connecticut and interview 20
01:20care providers and then pick one and
01:22have no idea being in the dark in
01:24California having no idea what kind of
01:26care of my mom was actually getting so
01:28we're completely reinventing in-home
01:30care by both cleaning away for seniors
01:33and care professionals to be matched
01:34right so a way to find the best care
01:37professional for the needs of your
01:39and then making it really easy for you
01:42to get you know to have that care
01:43delivered so things from having the
01:46parent know who's coming to their home
01:48and when they're gonna get there by
01:49putting a device in their home me is the
01:52kid having a you know app on my phone
01:54that tells me hey you know Jeannette
01:56spent two hours with your mom today
01:58here's what she did with your mom and
02:00here's a note about your mother you know
02:01what happened with your mom and then
02:03also you know empowering the care
02:05professionals to be the professionals
02:07that they really are you know giving
02:09them client information letting them
02:12letting them choose who they do and
02:14don't work for you know paying them in a
02:17much higher rate right there earnings
02:19potential right out the gate with honor
02:21will be in the Bay Area for our pioneers
02:23$17 an hour and we're creating a floor
02:25of $15 for the company and that's a huge
02:29deal when the average earnings for care
02:31providers today are 950 an hour when
02:34when you think about oh I don't want to
02:36have that conversation with my mom and
02:38you know your reaction is sort of like
02:40wow I'm gonna have to go search and find
02:41the best people I possibly can and take
02:43all this time and maybe move back to
02:45Connecticut for a couple of months or go
02:47back there all the time and just make
02:48sure it's working how does technology
02:50sort of take all those things that we do
02:52in a very ad hoc way now and make it
02:56so I think at the heart of what honor is
02:59you know even though we're using
03:00technology to enable you know a
03:02wonderful service where our services
03:04company like at the end of the day if
03:06you feel much better about who's coming
03:09to your to your mom's home you feel like
03:11your mom so you can care of you feel
03:12like there's a sort of a peace of mind
03:14that's the success goal and it's not
03:17about you know what is the app that
03:18powers that particular you know
03:20interaction and so we use we see
03:22technology as an enabler it's how do we
03:24create technology that creates a
03:26wonderful human experience rather than
03:28you know having the technology be front
03:30and center or showcase and I think you
03:32know these days in the valley you know
03:35there are ton of these service you know
03:36uber Montreal these sort of you know
03:37food delivery which is great but you
03:40know I think people see it more as an
03:42app or technology rather than wall you
03:45know what is the quality of service that
03:47my mom can get on the homecare situation
03:49and we really need to sort think about
03:51that angle rather than well what is the
03:53fancy new shiny iOS app that I'm gonna
03:55get yeah that's so exactly right I mean
03:57you know the technology just stuff like
03:59letting you pick between you know
04:01thousands of care professionals to make
04:03sure that your mom gets the best person
04:06for her specific needs or the technology
04:08makes sure that hey if the care
04:10professional who normally serves your
04:11mom is sick today very quickly were able
04:13to find a replacement who's the best
04:15next match for your mom you know so it
04:18does things to create a much better
04:20service or even just visibility right
04:21like knowing who was in your mom's home
04:25vacation that tells you Jeanette was
04:27there she spent tours with your mom but
04:28fundamentally this it's humans right
04:31it's about providing the best care
04:33possible for your mom and we're all
04:35about enabling the care professionals to
04:37provide amazing service to the seniors
04:41and to their families right so we build
04:42technology that makes it incredibly easy
04:45for the care professionals to do their
04:46jobs extremely well for the families so
04:49it sounds to me and this is I'm
04:51channeling my Jeff Jordan kind of market
04:54place's view of the world it's a
04:56marketplace but what are the then the
04:58the is it a two-sided marketplace a
05:00three-sided marketplace how do you view
05:02it yeah it we we think of it as a
05:04three-sided marketplace in the sense
05:06that you have the families and then you
05:08have the seniors any of the care
05:10professionals right and so those are
05:11kind of the core constituents for the
05:15marketplace now marketplace is a kind of
05:17a loaded term because I actually think
05:19that the experience of a user who you
05:22know whose mom just fell right it's just
05:25getting you know discharged from the
05:27hospital the last thing they want is to
05:29wade into a marketplace and try to
05:32figure out you know I didn't know care
05:34providers existed before and now I have
05:36to pick from one of a hundred yeah
05:38that's terrible right so it's a
05:40marketplace in the sense that it is a
05:42market matching you know needs with
05:44special capabilities yeah but the
05:47experience is not that right the
05:49experience is something that should be
05:51much much easier and more intuitive for
05:53people I mean it's crazy and I felt just
05:54telling my own stories that I you know
05:56we my mother was just in the hospital
05:58and they send you out of the hospital
06:00they're like okay you're out of the
06:01hospital but you're going to need this
06:02this and this you're like oh yeah now
06:07we've seen the printed sheet we've
06:09gotten from the hospitals the printed
06:11sheets and it's literally a printed
06:12piece of paper right they've run off a
06:14photocopier and it has like a list of 20
06:17you know agencies with phone numbers no
06:19email addresses no websites right it's
06:22like here you go right whoo that's tough
06:24good luck yeah respect it and part of
06:25the panic is that you're expected to
06:27become a knowledge expert
06:28instantaneously when you have no idea
06:30what's going on right and so part of our
06:32goal is to have honor be that knowledge
06:35expert so that we're taking all of that
06:37burden away from you
06:38and putting it on our lap so that when
06:40you are in that situation it's very easy
06:42because it's already difficult so how
06:44can we make that as seamless as possible
06:45so you guys are part of the core team
06:48that started me Bo which was wildly
06:50popular messaging and kind of community
06:53service for people while the way we
06:56stood dare I say lots of time but what
06:59what was really interesting about me be
07:01I was like this engagement people just
07:03hung out for hours and hours um in the
07:07same way that engagement and that kind
07:09of activity and sort of the messaging
07:11and community world what have you
07:13learned from me Bo that and in some ways
07:15may apply to this I think one of the
07:18really interesting learnings that we
07:20have sort of used that and how a form
07:22honor is that when people are part of a
07:25movement or they feel part of the
07:26process they feel much more engaged as
07:28if you know they're part of the team and
07:30so when creating honor we really wanted
07:32to have that same emotional tie to you
07:36know all the constituents in them in the
07:37marketplace and also just the audience
07:39that large and so having people feel
07:41like they're part of the build process
07:42of hey look we understand you we want to
07:45hear your feedback we want to integrate
07:47all that feedback back into our product
07:49and our services that was really
07:50important I really worked with me though
07:52the very early adopters you know we're
07:55very instrumental in evangelizing the
07:57service you know becoming our tech
07:59experts in the forums and so creating
08:02that community I think is really
08:03important for us and we're trying to
08:04sort of integrate that learning back
08:05into honor as well I think there's
08:08another big piece which is you know
08:10there's a lot of focus in today's world
08:13on the physical needs of a senior right
08:15like helping them get out of bed helping
08:17them with your breakfast but there's not
08:20enough focus on the social emotional
08:22needs of the senior and a big thing for
08:25us is how do we create community for the
08:27seniors who are customers of Honor right
08:29because that helps solve the isolation
08:31issues that seniors often face and so
08:34you know sandy is completely right one
08:37huge part is community around those who
08:39really who are really purchasing from us
08:41right like the caregivers the you know
08:43Sandwich Generation that is trying to
08:45take care of their parents while they're
08:46trying to take care of their kids and
08:48another big piece is coming
08:50defriend the seniors themselves and and
08:52what might the ladder look like the
08:54community for the senior of themselves
08:55you know it's something even as simple
08:57as you know once we have scale on a
08:59given area like you know scale in a
09:01given neighborhood what if there were a
09:03mahjong night at one of our customers
09:05homes right or what if we made it really
09:07easy for seniors to know you know what's
09:09happening at the local Senior Center
09:11there's so much that we can't do lot of
09:13stories where a senior was living in
09:16their home and literally no a lot of
09:18people maybe their implants for a
09:19different part of the country or
09:20internationally and all of a sudden they
09:21found someone who's about the same
09:22language right and it opened up so many
09:24doors because all of a sudden they could
09:25find someone they could talk to and
09:27relate to and so we could serve on those
09:29connections within the Honor platform
09:31that would be wonderful
09:32and again I also I can imagine that on
09:34the child side sharing stories or
09:39absolutely this work for me or you know
09:41this was going on and here's how it all
09:43played out for me when it comes to
09:45technology we always think about tablets
09:48are better for older people because
09:50they're simpler and they can just push
09:51you know push your nap and and keep
09:53going about like there's a there's often
09:56a sort of goal for a gap between the
09:58latest technology and and sort of
10:00seniors using it one do you believe
10:03that's true and do we eventually like
10:05you know as you guys get older and
10:07somebody's taking care of you does
10:08technology just the way you do things
10:09and because you grew up with it but do
10:13you need to approach sort of the
10:14technology that they see and use and
10:16engage with differently the population
10:19that's somewhat older versus you know
10:21you are the caregivers for that matter
10:24or the children yeah well I think
10:26there's one piece which is you know some
10:28of the seniors just won't be able to use
10:30what we put in their home period right
10:33they won't be doing of eyesight issues
10:35or you know just a lack of mobility so
10:39one piece is is that the technology that
10:42we give to the seniors has to be an
10:43enabler and something that makes their
10:45experience better if they're able to use
10:47it but it can't be a requirement another
10:51piece is kind of like Cindy was saying I
10:53think we're in this weird era with
10:56technology right now where when you're
10:58using technology you know digital
11:01right our smartphones and compete PCs
11:04you feel like you're using this thing
11:06called technology right and and I think
11:09that's an era that's gonna come to a
11:11close pretty soon right and I think
11:14we're gonna go into an era where
11:15technology enables experiences and it's
11:19kind of like using a toaster oven or a
11:20microwave it like everyone can use it so
11:23serve it in a microwave
11:24they are technology you don't perceive
11:26it to be technology right and I think
11:29that we're moving to an era where
11:31technology just will enable experiences
11:34and that anyone can use right so I think
11:37we've been in this weird cycle I think
11:39we need to build technology for that
11:41next era so how does that play out and
11:43maybe you can talk about this but you
11:45know technology in the home are we
11:47talking about a house bristling with
11:48sensors and so it knows your parent is
11:51there it knows that it's nighttime and
11:53you know the lights are still on for
11:55some reason and or this person has
11:57gotten up five times in the in the night
11:58or can't get up in the morning for that
12:01matter what kinds of things does that
12:03play out and how does that then become
12:05an experience yeah I think with one of
12:08our strategies is you know seniors have
12:11been that well the marketplace has been
12:13inundated with hypotheses on what is the
12:16best way to care for seniors in their
12:17homes that could be from sensors to
12:19devices to the Life Alert you know all
12:21these things there yeah and you know I'd
12:24like Seth said a lot of this has been a
12:26focus on physical needs and how do we
12:28solve for the a fallen what do we do but
12:31none of none of these really addressed
12:33the wall have you asked the senior or
12:36the person living in the home what do
12:37they want mm-hmm and oftentimes you hear
12:39you know I don't like to be spied on I
12:41don't want I want control still and part
12:44of Aging is also you know process of you
12:46know part honestly losing a little bit
12:48of control and so what we want to do an
12:49honor is to make them more of an active
12:51participant like not just a receiver of
12:53the care but you know someone who's
12:54really involved in it and so our
12:56strategy is to create something that's
12:58not really invasive but very subtle if
13:01they can choose to use it they can
13:02choose not to use it and you know maybe
13:04in the future if you know it becomes
13:07more acceptable in the ecosystem and
13:09people are more used to it and sensors
13:10are less invasive maybe that's something
13:12that we can think about but from a star
13:14perspective again we don't want to make
13:17technology front center our we want to
13:18make an enabling of a great human
13:20experience right and so for us I think
13:22the best way is is still I think we're
13:25still learning about that and you know
13:27honors strategy right now is to create
13:29something that's that's that very
13:31appliance like and not scary and
13:33technology and new and too slick and
13:35interesting you know that is so I have
13:38to ask me beau you guys Google bot
13:41amiibo after time and you guys both went
13:44to Google mmm and spent some time at
13:47Google you guys had built something
13:50great like why I really want to know
13:54because we see it all the time but why
13:55build another company why go through
13:57this sort of torture of doing it again
14:00so we clearly can still talk to each
14:02other you know it when we when when we
14:08sold me about a Google we were tired
14:09right and you know me Bo had high highs
14:12and low lows just like almost any other
14:15startup and it was an awesome run we
14:17assembled an unbelievable team right and
14:19I think one of the best parts in Meebo
14:21was when we had when we originally
14:23launched the we had a lot of soldiers in
14:25Iraq still and we would get all these
14:28emails from soldiers in Iraq and they
14:29would tell us the only way that I'm
14:31capable of communicating with my family
14:33back home is by me bow and from a user
14:36perspective that was my favorite thing
14:37about me both because we were like
14:39clearly making those people's lives
14:41better and you know after you sold one
14:44company right you kind of have to ask
14:47yourself how do I want to spend my time
14:49and we had a long list of like how were
14:53we willing to spend our time like what
14:54would motivate us to get up in the
14:56morning and number one on the list was
14:59we had to look a human in the eyes and
15:01know that we're making their lives
15:02better and that's the best way you can
15:04possibly spend your time like if you if
15:05you have to work on anything right we're
15:08gone something that makes humans lives
15:09better and we also want to define
15:11something where once we got that going
15:14right once we got an engine going that
15:16it would be self-sustaining right like
15:17if we could make humans lives better by
15:19creating a real business around it you
15:21know then we could make so many more
15:22humans lives better because businesses
15:24have this nice thing that
15:25they're kind of perpetually in motion
15:27and perpetually growing as long as
15:29they're working in businesses which
15:30means you can have even bigger impact so
15:32you know you can go to the beach you can
15:35you know go to the desert you can rock
15:37climb all day long or ride bicycles in
15:39my case but I think to us you know
15:42there's a limit to how much kind of fun
15:44you can have before fun becomes boring
15:46and then you search for meaning and I
15:48think for us meaning is helping other
15:50people and making their lives
15:52fundamentally better Cindy when when
15:54Seth sort of got back from Connecticut
15:57with his driving experience with his mom
15:59okay let's do it let's go yeah you know
16:02it's interesting because helping seniors
16:04was actually on our list of
16:05possibilities we were looking at really
16:07large large place like what could we fix
16:09society unemployment childcare issues
16:13healthcare issues you know Senior Care
16:14was on there and he came back and he was
16:17like senior care so it's pretty
16:19interesting I just had this experience
16:20my mom that kind of freaked me out and
16:21so you know as being as sort of you know
16:25interesting curious people we started to
16:27dig and the more we dig we like wow
16:29there's real opportunity here because
16:31this is kind of not an awesome space
16:33right we don't talk about senior care
16:35much in society we don't it's generally
16:37very taboo subject you don't talk about
16:38death we don't talk about things like oh
16:41you know my mother can't go to the
16:42bathroom by herself anymore and these
16:44are issues that you know a lot of people
16:46face but no one wants to talk about it
16:48no one wants to put in front center no
16:50one wants to solve these problems and so
16:51we looked at you know many many areas of
16:55senior care and you know when we decided
16:56to hone in on in-home medical care it
16:59was like wow this there's something
17:00special here that we could do and with
17:01our skill set with our resources we
17:03thought we could really make a
17:04difference and we can really look
17:06someone in the eye and say it helped you
17:07and the awesome thing is that this you
17:09know when this works and if this works
17:10we can use this in world
17:12right so that's a great you know sort of
17:14feeling where you can create something
17:16that really lasts so in the way that
17:19this is a massive market and it's also
17:21in a way in the way that everybody can
17:23immediately be like oh god yeah this
17:26makes sense where I'm going to have this
17:28problem if I don't have it already
17:29there's also kind of probably another
17:31part of that what people will look at
17:33you know you folks from Silicon Valley
17:36why you know why should they solve this
17:38problem like wow you know what do they
17:40know about this like how do you answer
17:42that how is it that you think you know
17:44your view of the world which is a
17:46freshman I think when it comes to this
17:47is the right what we'll see what's the
17:50right one but is it you know deserves a
17:52shot yeah so you know one thing we were
17:54passionate about solving problems that
17:57we experienced personally right and so
17:59you know we're people like anyone else
18:01even if we're from Silicon Valley and
18:03this is a problem that we're really
18:06really passionate about and the biggest
18:08thing when you're trying to solve a
18:09really big problem frankly is starting
18:11with an amazing team and a lot of times
18:14that amazing team is a team that does
18:16not look like you right you go out and
18:19find people who fill in for your
18:21weaknesses so you know we went and found
18:24Phaedra and Phaedra joined us and the
18:27first 13 years of her career down in San
18:29Jose was working with home care workers
18:32you know we found this woman named
18:34Shruti who joined us and shruti's career
18:38to this point was at Kaiser doing
18:40national quality for kaisers in-home
18:43care agencies so you know we went out
18:46and then you know someone who's been
18:47helping us as we've been doing a care
18:50professional orientation is someone who
18:52was a scheduler and did tons of care
18:56professional screening at a agency so
19:00you know we found people who have deep
19:02expertise either in working with home
19:05care workers or working in the you know
19:07in the in-home care space to supplement
19:10our expertise which are more around a
19:13technology platform that can scale and
19:15kind of the building of a company so
19:17it's all about putting together an
19:18amazing team and that team has to be
19:21diverse like by definition in order to
19:24succeed at solving a problem this big
19:27you mentioned the the moment at me Bo
19:31when soldiers in Iraq were saying like
19:33we use be able to communicate with our
19:36that was you know one of the greatest
19:37things about me though as this goes and
19:40as it succeeds what do you think that
19:42kind of moment might be for you guys is
19:44it gonna be some it's kind of already
19:46happened if you should be honest it's
19:49interesting because the more you did you
19:51talk about this with people everybody
19:52has a personal experience it's like oh I
19:54went at this myself or my grandmother
19:56went through this well my cousin went to
19:57this so my best friend is going through
19:59this right now why couldn't you have
20:00launched you know a year ago when I
20:02needed this right now and so in that
20:04sense it's become very it's kind of
20:07driven us to go to go faster and work
20:10harder because it's so big of a problem
20:12right now right that you're reading
20:14everybody has some sort of touch point
20:16with this and so I think you know that
20:18in itself is rewarding but it's also
20:20very it's just different driving force
20:23like you feel like you're kind of trying
20:24to solve all the problem as fast as you
20:27can just because there's so many people
20:28really sort of banking on your solution
20:30to to help them and so I think that's
20:32it's already happening yeah I mean I was
20:34up in Seattle I was like oh my god I
20:35could use it so get there quickly honey
20:39you guys are piloting now I know yeah
20:41I'm more soon yeah soon we'll launch our
20:44so we're already onboarding our first
20:45wave of care professionals onto the
20:47platform and they're an orientation
20:50right now and then we'll be launching
20:51our first homes and Contra Costa County
20:53later this month across the bay from San
20:55Jose oh yeah all right well sandy and
20:58Seth thank you so much and we'll keep an
21:00eye on this and we'll revisit it and you
21:02know I can't wait for it to come to my
21:04neck of the woods awesome thankfully no
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