00:00well welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm
00:02Michael Copeland smartphone components
00:05have become a kind of Lego kit for all
00:07kinds of consumer technology cameras
00:10sensors and batteries all get mixed and
00:12matched in different permutations to
00:13create different gadgets there might be
00:16something that enables your connected
00:18home offers a video capture system for
00:21cops or powers a remote video chat /
00:25treat machine for your dog I know we all
00:28need that but since practically every
00:31component is now available to everyone
00:33and the manufacturing expertise to tie
00:36it all together as well it becomes very
00:39hard to distinguish via Hardware alone
00:42software is the key to breaking from the
00:45pack say Benedict Evans and Steven
00:47Sinofsky in this post 2016 CES podcast
00:52what Benedict and Steven saw and learned
00:55from this year's gathering of the
00:57consumer electronics industry in this
00:59segment of the a 16z podcast welcome
01:03gentlemen good morning
01:05hey so Steven I was reading your post
01:08and you're one of those people you've
01:09said it out loud or at least you wrote
01:11it out loud you love CES and for me
01:15that's a little bit baffling but I want
01:17to know why you love it and from your
01:18perspective because I know you go there
01:20with a different sort of mindset and a
01:22different lens so what is that well you
01:26know I I do love it I love the Vegas
01:28thing I you know but what I really do
01:31really do love is just its opportunity
01:33to sort of see everything at once now
01:36it's not quite everything because a
01:37bunch of the big companies don't go you
01:39can't really see a ton of startups but
01:42it it really is like a snapshot of a
01:45massive amount of activity plus you get
01:48to see how they want to sell it and
01:51pitch it and talk about it and by seeing
01:54all the parts at once you sort of can
01:57connect the dots from like small like a
02:00person making an ingredient technology
02:02way over in the faraway boonies all the
02:06way to you know like the Samsung people
02:09with their monster constructed booth
02:11that took three days and a bunch of
02:12carpenters and metal
02:13workers to assemble and that whole chain
02:15is super interesting and the chain and I
02:18think this is something you wrote is is
02:19theirs from finished products and it's
02:21sort of part lab and part like okay you
02:24can go buy this in a store right now
02:25yeah like what I always find fascinating
02:27is that so many people go there and they
02:29think it's like wow this is like the
02:32sales place you know it's like a big
02:34giant Best Buy or something and then
02:36other people go there and they think
02:37everybody's just talking about their
02:39future and their labs and it's a little
02:41bit of all of those things but it also
02:44just depends on the specific booth or
02:46even the part of the booth you know like
02:48some boots like Samsung will have like
02:50future projects and then the TVs you can
02:52buy now and then like the TVs that
02:54they're gonna probably bring to market
02:56in a little bit right and you just have
02:58to know and spend the time so yes used
03:01to be all about TVs but now it's about
03:04cars it's about drones it's about all
03:07sorts of different things so let's get
03:10into that let's get into what what you
03:12guys saw that was important in the
03:13trends that they then sort of imply in
03:16the technology industry generally so I
03:18think the sort of the basic thing that
03:21you see the sort of the thing that
03:22grounds everything is that this is kind
03:25of all about the smartphone supply chain
03:26I mean not you know there's a few things
03:28like TVs insulted on but a huge
03:31proportion of what you see is basically
03:32being made using smartphone components
03:35and being made by people kind of who are
03:38from the smartphone industry in some way
03:40or who also making smartphones or
03:41contract manufacturers who are making
03:43smartphones and so what happened is that
03:45all of the components that come out of
03:47that industry are there was sort of Lego
03:50for technology and so like Bosh had this
03:53great display where they had like 15
03:55different consumer electronics products
03:56from the surface to an iPhone to a drone
03:59to a nest and they all had the same boss
04:02component sensor sort of tilt sensor
04:04switch or something in them and so
04:06that's kind of the kind of the
04:07foundation of a lot of what you're
04:09seeing that and and what that means then
04:11is that you have then and then on top of
04:13that you have like the whole shenzhen
04:14manufacturing ecosystem they can kind of
04:16turn on a dime to make this thing or
04:19that thing based on those underlying
04:21components so like last year there was
04:23loads of 3d printing this year there's
04:25loads of everything ever
04:30thing I was gonna mention is this year
04:32though I think five booths that were
04:34just selling lapel cameras for policemen
04:36yeah and they were all like it's got a
04:39new brand name it's got an it looks like
04:41it's clearly the company was making
04:42selfie six six months ago and they read
04:44the news and thought oh maybe we should
04:45have a lapel cameras for policemen so
04:46the entirely new company just kind of
04:48appears complete with a whole product
04:49stack and everything else and the
04:50software all ready to go and if that
04:52doesn't work then a six months time
04:53they'll join the guys who are making
04:54drones yeah it's worth actually just
04:56highlighting approach like exactly how
04:59that works because in the startup world
05:00that doesn't often make a lot of sense
05:02you're like wow you raise capital you
05:04build a company but what what these
05:06people are doing is they're tapping into
05:08this whole elaborate ecosystem of
05:10manufacturers and then there's a person
05:13who's like sort of like in a positive
05:15way like a hustler they they see an
05:16opportunity hey if I can just go buy a
05:18production run of say five thousand
05:20police lapel cams and then I'll just
05:23hustle them out and I'll get them sold
05:24to some distributors some middle people
05:26and I'm making 10% and I it's a business
05:29and then they'll just do that again for
05:31hoverboards or you know for whatever and
05:34that's a lot of how it works and so it
05:36doesn't it's not like they're raising
05:38capital to build a factory and and
05:40develop the circuit board and package it
05:42they're they're they're doing like a
05:44fixed-size run getting them out there
05:46and moving on in a funny kind of way you
05:48could almost kind of an imperfect
05:50analogy but you can also almost argue
05:52that like the user experience and the
05:54injection molded plastic and so on has
05:56become software that is to say in a kind
05:58of a reserved analogy in here that
06:00you've got the set of the underlying
06:01physical components of the chips but
06:04then you wrap them and repurpose some
06:06you know almost overnight into different
06:08things and so just as you know you can
06:10take a piece of open-source software and
06:11make this or that or the other thing out
06:13of it and put a new UI on it and it can
06:15be a message board or it can be a social
06:17network or it can be and in consumer
06:19insurance platform but it's the same
06:20underlying software you have the same
06:22thing in Shenzhen which if you take the
06:24same basic chips and the same basic
06:25supply chains and manufacturing
06:27manufacturing lines and it can be lapel
06:29and it can be lapel mics it can be
06:31hoverboards it can be drones it can be a
06:333d printer based on you or where the
06:35markets going and what's interesting is
06:36that that that Shenzhen supply chain it
06:38used to be kind of shoved over into a
06:40a dark hinterland corner of CES it seems
06:44to me that that it's getting its place
06:46on center stage like more and more that
06:49supply chain is what matters and so what
06:51is the implication if everyone has
06:54access to that supply chain what are you
06:57starting to see them what does that mean
06:58if I'm thinking about building X Y or Z
07:01well I think there's an obvious point
07:03here which is that if you're going to
07:05take commodity components and put them
07:06into an undifferentiated route to market
07:09like a shelf in Home Depot you need to
07:12think very carefully about why your
07:13product is going to be different from
07:14the other 40 that on the Shelf and so
07:16this was the thing that I said have said
07:18on Twitter that I lost count of complete
07:21connected home solutions when I got 40
07:22like 40 different booths showing a
07:25complete connected home solution
07:27quote-unquote now some of them are
07:28better than others but you know you get
07:29to that point like why is your plastic
07:31box in a cardboard box on a shelf in
07:34Home Depot with smartphone components
07:36and some cloud software better than all
07:38of the others well it what's super
07:40interesting about that is for it it has
07:41to be better and then it's interesting
07:42you pick the example of Home Depot
07:44what's your route to market right
07:45because Home Depot has said hey we're a
07:48big company we can go cents and got
07:50folks on a plane to Shenzhen and buy the
07:52connected system ourself and put a Home
07:54Depot brand on it and eliminate the
07:57whole middle of markup and so the the
08:00for me what what it really boils down to
08:02is that you know if you're not
08:04knowledgeable by walking the floor or
08:06reading about it and understanding how
08:08this chain works you could get
08:09mesmerised by like I could put get on a
08:12plane and go to Shenzhen and I can have
08:14a Wi-Fi access point with my own brand
08:16on it and think like you could package
08:19it differently and do all this stuff and
08:21then find that you just you get plowed
08:23over by this machinery similarly you
08:26might think you could pick a special
08:28part like you could pick the best 4k
08:30camera available and think that that
08:32will be sustainable but it'll be
08:33sustainable for like ten minutes because
08:35that that camera will be everywhere or
08:38the capabilities in that camera and so
08:40you really do have to build a software
08:42based business because software is the
08:44part that can't be easily copied like
08:47take cameras so a camera you can take
08:49the same camera it can show up in
08:52a doorbell in a security camera in a
08:54baby monitor in a lapel camera in a
08:57mountable action cam like Aldrin and a
09:00drone and there they did in in 50 places
09:02but anything that can have a camera and
09:05it has a camera in it and a lot of
09:06things that can't have a camera in it
09:07have a camera not just a cruddy camera
09:11like a really good one and also it
09:13doesn't have to be just a camera like it
09:15could be a camera plus a thermometer
09:16plus a motion sensor plus a rotational
09:19sensor and but then you look and you see
09:22wow like this security camera has built
09:25like a back end learning system that
09:27understands people and it has a facial
09:29recognition system that like connects to
09:31to your Facebook profile it knows your
09:34friend and like all of a sudden you're
09:36like wow that's a competitive advantage
09:38that might be sustainable but if you're
09:39a startup and you've got ten people and
09:42you put eight of them on like sourcing
09:44your camera hardware and spending all of
09:46this energy like putting it in a cool
09:48industrial design thing it's not clear
09:50like what how good an investment in time
09:53and money that will be any in any more
09:56because I think the example of nest and
09:58Dropcam now nest and even GoPro there
10:01was a period in time and you tell me if
10:02this is true - still today where you
10:05kind of could do that you could package
10:07things you could have a you know a sort
10:09of period of exclusivity but has that
10:10really just shrunk to virtually nothing
10:13I mean this this kind of two things in
10:15here one is nestea is kind of different
10:17in that there's quite a lot of
10:18proprietary Hardware at least before it
10:19we work around the hardware nest to get
10:21the color screen to work on the tiny
10:23amount of power and so on Susan maybe
10:25that's sort of put that off to one side
10:26drop Cameron something else there's a
10:28point in here around being the first
10:30packaged it to think of a use case to
10:32think of a way of selling it and a way
10:35of telling people why they would want
10:36this on top of pure commodity hardware
10:39so based you know Dropcam and gopro a
10:42basically pure commodity hardware but
10:43they come up with a way of wrapping it
10:45and taking it out and selling it to
10:46people that makes it look different but
10:48there's a limited window on how that's
10:50good and how long that can last because
10:52you know fundamentally you know it's you
10:55know unless you can build some kind of a
10:57network effect or you can build some
10:59kind of unique software on top of that
11:00that means you have to buy that software
11:03rather than somebody else's software
11:04then it kind of drop
11:05away and of course the extension of this
11:07is if you look at what happened -
11:08something like flip the actual answer
11:11was flipped got replaced by Instagram
11:13that is to say you reach a certain point
11:14we said why are you actually even making
11:16hardware you know if your point is the
11:18cloud and the software why didn't you
11:20just put the cloud and the software out
11:22there and let people bring the rain for
11:24those of you don't remember this remind
11:25people with flip Weiser was the camera
11:26that was a little hat was the
11:27best-selling count it was a little
11:29handheld camera just at the point that
11:31camera tech had become commoditized but
11:33not at the point that you could get a
11:35good one into a smartphone and so there
11:37was a window of like two years where it
11:40took better pictures than you got on and
11:41then and the smartphone was taking kind
11:43of crappy pictures and crappy video and
11:44of course what happened was that the
11:46smartphone cameras got better and flitt
11:48was dead well the software software on
11:50the cameras is a really good example
11:51because if you look at Dropcam like when
11:53it first came out one of the things that
11:55did like it wasn't the first like
11:56monitoring security camera like you
11:58could go up and down the Fry's aisle and
11:59you could see the elaborate packages
12:01from Swan from Netgear from all of the
12:05people who could figure out how to put a
12:07camera in and make a DVR box but which
12:09was also a commodity but then what
12:11Dropcam did is like you could get to it
12:13from the internet and this whole notion
12:15of tunneling like was super hard for
12:17most people to get right in a chaotic
12:19world of home and business networking
12:22with like these weird firewalls and they
12:24just made it work but now when you'd
12:26walk the floor like actually getting to
12:28a home monitoring camera is itself that
12:31layer of software has been been sort of
12:33the expertise for everybody has been
12:35raised and and so it wasn't quite the
12:37sustainable advantage so everything your
12:40ring doorbell you know all of the home
12:42security cameras can all like you could
12:45see the pictures from your phone
12:46everywhere I saw a picture of you
12:48Stephen sitting inside I have to ask the
12:50sitting inside that one-person drone
12:52meaning like this thing will lift you
12:54into the sky now you were sitting on the
12:56floor but had they said okay Stephen we
12:59can fire this thing up for you and fly
13:01you around the I don't know Las Vegas of
13:03would you have done that would I have
13:07gotten to see somebody else do it before
13:08me no look I'm biased because the I even
13:12mentioned in the report like the the CEO
13:14of that to X Microsoft II and so I you
13:20well you know we have a long history in
13:21aviation as Microsoft people not really
13:25well it was interesting we had a you
13:28know it's it's a fascinating product and
13:29part of it is you know you gotta give
13:31credit to the China market for letting
13:33this thing up in the air right and
13:35learning to test it and that's like a
13:37huge thing because like I don't even
13:39know where you'd have to go to like
13:40White Sands New Mexico to test something
13:42like that in the US and that itself is a
13:45big deal but they're very focused on
13:47like you know their cities are huge and
13:49getting from one side to another is
13:51itself a problem that they want to go
13:53solve and so they see a world of of
13:56doing that it was fascinating like it it
13:59literally blew me away because I just I
14:02mean it felt literally they didn't tell
14:04ya yeah but I mean I did feel a little
14:06bit like I was in a James Bond crazy I
14:09mean it does look like you know it's
14:10this scaled up version of something that
14:12you could hold in your hand and now you
14:14get to sit in it you think about it for
14:15a second you realize wow cuz it's so
14:17expensive now like to get a helicopter
14:19and you need a pilot and it's not even a
14:21easy pilot it's like a really hard thing
14:24like you know and and then just to be
14:27able to do that to see a tour of a giant
14:30pandas which is one of the examples they
14:32used or something like that so what else
14:33did you see that you felt like hit the
14:35mark or missed the mark or that we
14:37should be paying attention so I thought
14:38there was a whole whole it was basically
14:40a car show and I thought that was
14:44know a lot of cars that looked like
14:46giant cough sweets and so on you know
14:48he's kind of transparent blue things or
14:50something and every car company has the
14:54story that in two years time they will
14:56announce a strategy for self-driving
14:57cars or something I thought as a kind of
15:02an on Collison what I saw looking at a
15:04lot of these were a it was like the same
15:06approach to building a concept car that
15:07the car industry had for 75 years I mean
15:10you know this thing will never actually
15:11share people never actually look like
15:12that why are you even showing me this I
15:14thought the second thing was a lot of
15:16them reminded me a feature phone and
15:18this is the point I've made before a lot
15:19of them reminded me of feature phones in
15:20like 2006 that is to say you've got to
15:23the point you've added so many things to
15:26the product that it's become unusable so
15:28if one is obviously Stevens talked a lot
15:30about this like one good product
15:32never added so many features that you
15:34can't use a thing so that's your website
15:36called my car does what which explains
15:39all the different things that your car
15:40now does for you and so you look at
15:42these things and you think okay there's
15:4345 different buttons as two screens why
15:46the two screens in the car and it's like
15:48one of them is one of them running the
15:50third-party us and one of them running
15:52the firmware and like what's the
15:54dividing line between those and like if
15:56you go to a self-driving car then the
15:59self-driving bit needs to be able to see
16:00the map to know where you're going and
16:02so it's the map which better the solid
16:04and it's just like this whole way and
16:06even like I was not gonna one and
16:07they're there the car has to 4g modems
16:11in it because one of them is the one the
16:13car company wants in it to send
16:15telemetry of the car and safety and then
16:17other one is the optional one you might
16:20want like a Wi-Fi hotspot a scenario
16:23that is odd to me in some level and and
16:28so that that whole notion it almost it's
16:31like the org chart for the the supply
16:33chain and the car company comes together
16:35to make sure that everybody still has
16:37their component integrated into the car
16:40in the same old way so that lack of
16:42simplicity or that complexity does that
16:44then tell you that so it tells us that
16:46there's going to be a tell a point of
16:47collapse into something sort of more
16:49coherent um the other thing like she
16:51always reminded of was the all that wave
16:54of kind of content companies doing
16:57phones in like 2005 6-7 this a famous
17:01story about the ESPN phone and that's
17:04the head of ESPN is first meet Steve
17:07Jobs at a Disney board meeting and he
17:08comes up and introduces himself and
17:10Steve Jobs looks at dinner service
17:11you're done your phone it's the dumbest
17:13idea I've ever heard in my life and you
17:15can kind of we haven't got like an ESPN
17:17car but like you can kind of see it's
17:19that kind of twisting and turning around
17:21trying to find a way of avoiding the
17:24realization that no this is going to be
17:25software and it's not going to be you
17:27well a good example of this to me or
17:29just first just to put a little context
17:31so everybody gets it like this is an
17:33enormous exhibition space that's this
17:35car show with in CES right and the cars
17:37again used to be like outside I mean
17:39yeah they weren't in the main right and
17:40to its credit was really the first car
17:43company to really drive itself into the
17:45a number of levels of irony if you might
17:48you know if you rent afford and go to
17:50CES you sort of experience the two
17:51computers the two of everything but like
17:5395% of what you saw on the floor were
17:56just like add in GPS systems and neon
17:59lights from fast and furious and like
18:01traditional cost of car stuff but when
18:04you got to the to see something like
18:06like I'm fascinated by like the in-dash
18:08system because my view of it is like I
18:11really want an in-dash system from
18:13somebody who built my phone and I want
18:15that to just be my phone I don't want it
18:18to have like different apps that I have
18:21to go download differently or different
18:22even a different data plan I literally
18:24want like phone remote desktop and it
18:27turns out that there's three of these
18:28that you can get there's mirrorlink
18:30which is a sort of a consortium led by
18:32VW among others and then there's Android
18:35for cars and and then apple carplay and
18:38the car company answer to this is like
18:41just what you'd expect like a bunch of
18:42meetings and they're like well we can't
18:44upset everybody so we're gonna support
18:46all of them plus we can't upset our own
18:49team that makes $5,000 by upselling a
18:52nav system and an internet so we have to
18:54have basically four things and so every
18:56phone like you start off with like so
18:58you're the reason that there's the irony
19:00in the for it is because you you get in
19:02the rental car and the whole time you're
19:04renting the car it says pair your phone
19:06pair your phone and it's blinking and
19:08then you pair it and then like the next
19:10thing you know you need an account on
19:11the Ford thing in order to use your
19:13phone's Maps to use the Ford in and like
19:16it makes no sense so do you think then
19:19benedict you've just said it that that
19:21car companies aren't going to be able to
19:23make that transition for the reasons and
19:25for the things that you describe there's
19:28a much there's a kind of a deeper a lot
19:29much longer-term impression in here
19:31which is that you know what happens to
19:33cars is as you go to electric among
19:36other things is that an awful lot of the
19:38things in a car that it's discrete
19:40systems from discrete vendors or
19:42discrete teams get collapsed into
19:45software running on just one box or just
19:48two boxes or something and that's the
19:50problem for the org charts of those
19:52companies because they've got a whole
19:53doll chart with little bits on it
19:55dedicated to buying boxes that aren't
19:57going to exist anymore and which of
19:58those bits of that wall chart
19:59to control this and watch as this
20:04happened to feature phones of course
20:05NPCs NPCs and so it will kind of
20:08collapse into into many fewer components
20:10and so that's kind of one big kind of
20:13cultural organizational challenge for
20:15them there's a second one which i think
20:17which is do the car manufacturers end up
20:20looking a bit like Foxconn that is to
20:23say you buy components and you bolt them
20:25together because someone's got AB like
20:27make bits of have big bits of steel and
20:29bolt them to other bits of steel or
20:30carbon 5 or whatever it is someone's got
20:32to put these things together and if
20:33somebody else probably will be making
20:35the smart bit and so does that mean that
20:38the car companies end up looking a teeny
20:39bit like Foxconn and it's the component
20:42guys who have got a deep problem or
20:44alternatively does this enable
20:45fundamentally new people to make new
20:47kinds of cars and you know and which of
20:49the car companies some of the car
20:50companies may be able to make that
20:51transition yeah well there is a
20:53fascinating article in Wired about GM
20:56and the battle that they're having with
20:58Tesla and you got to give them credit
20:59for like really trying to do an
21:01end-to-end electric car to compete and
21:04the question is like really
21:06fundamentally like did they are they
21:09going to build their own software are
21:10they gonna just go and approach Delphi
21:12or Bosch or the traditional vendors and
21:15then try to outsource it and then what
21:17how does their dealer network and handle
21:18it cuz you know the the bolt is an
21:20amazing looking vehicle like I want to
21:22go get on the wait list for the bowl
21:23yeah oh yeah but the vault like was it's
21:27like legendary in a film documentary
21:29about like how the company conspired to
21:32the company and its whole ecosystem sort
21:34of conspired to make it fail and this
21:36disruption is a very real thing all of
21:38these companies the Detroit companies in
21:40particular North America three-quarters
21:42of their cars are light SUVs and or
21:45light trucks and so that's a whole
21:48different business than transportation
21:50in a sense and like how does that how
21:53does that really really fit in and you
21:55just you really do when you go
21:56systematically up and down the aisles at
21:58the show you see this like viscerally
22:01like you can literally have a
22:03conversation with a person who works at
22:05the company who can talk to you and then
22:07oh be too candid and tell you bad things
22:09about the other part of the company or
22:10tell you the meeting that they were just
22:13to get something done so I had it I
22:15remember when I worked in the media
22:16business that I had a colleague he would
22:18say that Nokia we'd have meetings with
22:21Nokia and the n-series people at Nokia
22:23would say what are those ourselves in
22:25the e-series unit up to and vice versa
22:27and this is a sort of the similar point
22:29about you know that you can look at a
22:31car dashboard and you can see the org
22:32structure of the company well you can
22:34also see a steering wheel guy really
22:35hates a deer stick guy or you could flip
22:39side you could see the sales channel
22:41that loves the navigation system yes
22:44like like they're like wow it's $5,000
22:46and like we the spiffs and the the
22:48marketing and like we can't just lose
22:50that like that's our negotiating power
22:52with that customer right so the common
22:55theme in all of this is it's the
22:56software that matters whether we're
22:58talking about drones or cars or it's a
22:59software and a company that's predicated
23:02on hardware and on different bits of
23:04hardware is in deep trouble because the
23:06hardware is going to go and those
23:08different bits of hardware going to turn
23:09into one piece of hardware made by
23:11somebody else this is you know in a
23:13global economy like when you used to
23:15make physical things like a you know
23:17your geography your supply chain your
23:19your distribution channel those used to
23:22be sort of almost physically constrained
23:24right which led to a sustainable
23:26advantage but if everybody can get on a
23:28plane and fly to southern China and
23:29every customer can search the web and
23:32order any product from Amazon from any
23:33place on earth and not know those
23:36limitations just aren't there anymore so
23:38you need the one thing that that takes
23:42intellectual horsepower to make which of
23:43course the hardware does but is also
23:45really really hard to duplicate and
23:46singular in its existence which is the
23:48software side of it do we see that from
23:50the large you know traditional consumer
23:52electronics companies I mean is Samsung
23:54out there like with something that you
23:55feel like breaks that mold or are they
23:57running down the same path I doubt I
24:00think they're in the same situation as
24:02anyone else in hardware
24:03I mean this is kind of the narrative
24:04that we've seen with the Japanese
24:05consumer electronic companies and I
24:07think you know they've got a whole other
24:08world of hurt but I think Samsung is
24:10kind of in and out in an analogous
24:12situation in they have a great component
24:15business they make gray screens they
24:17make great chips they make great you
24:18know cellular radios and so on but they
24:21are stuck in the same situation that the
24:24PC companies were in the
24:26model-t components of commodity the
24:28operating system of the commodity it's
24:30not their place to differentiate the
24:31software and so they've been unable to
24:35create any value there and so they're
24:37squeezed between Apple which does
24:39actually convince having controls the
24:41components and the software and doesn't
24:43go to scale exactly which is something
24:48they learned from the original Mac so
24:50they're using this supply chain just
24:51like everybody else and picking and
24:53choosing the best bits of it
24:54Samsung has kind of squeezed because
24:55they don't control the operating system
24:56they can't create that differentiation
24:58I mean we've we've had long
24:59conversations we run this in around
25:00Xiaomi as well and it's gonna be
25:01interesting to see what happens to show
25:02me this in this coming year as well
25:03whether they can sustain that their
25:05advantage and so Samsung squeezed down
25:07at Panasonic's getting out of consumer
25:09electronics Sony has you know been
25:10failing in this for twenty years
25:12Sony actually had a nice line of stuff I
25:14mean I kind of miss Sony and I miss
25:16Nokia yeah Sony is very you know
25:18spending years in Japan like Sony is
25:21always like like the the emotion that I
25:24have and I go to the booth but you you
25:25can see how they're actually trying to
25:28play to their strengths yes like they
25:29have imaging which they make the sensors
25:31and the highest-end DSLRs they and
25:33they've packaged it up in a consumer
25:35line which is very popular and it was
25:37actually the first thing you see is the
25:39their breath yeah I thought we're trying
25:41to do is to cake the brand and the
25:43design and the manufacturing quality and
25:45create clear blue water between that and
25:47the software so that in a sense it
25:49doesn't matter that they're not
25:50producing the software they're almost I
25:52mean as you will see Steve Jobs wanted
25:54to copy Sony yeah it's almost like what
25:56Sony you try to do is to turn back and
25:58say okay the components of a commodity
26:01fine but how can we create something
26:03beautiful that will people will want to
26:05buy that will still be different yeah
26:06and some they still have like these
26:08amazing labs like we both we ran into
26:10each other and we both like the the
26:13zeroth row length projector I mean the
26:14thing is a tiny little cube like four by
26:17four that's a speaker and it's literally
26:20you push it up against the wall and it
26:21shows a 40 inch image oh wow on the
26:24world on the wall above it and an HD
26:27image at that I bet oh yeah absolutely
26:28and a brilliant laser Wow you corrected
26:31color corrected and then they had a a
26:33giant one which was like $50,000 but
26:35it's like a foot away and it does a
26:37hundred inch image the same kind of
26:40I bought this pico projector which was
26:42the one thing I bought from the show and
26:44it's it's sort of the size of like a big
26:46deck of cards if there was such a thing
26:47and it has a two hour battery and it
26:50does HD image so you basically and it's
26:52also by the way a backup phone battery
26:54like it's about the size of one of those
26:56things but you just pop it on the table
26:57and you've got you know a three to one
27:00throw ratio image on on any wall so I
27:03was gonna ask you it sounds to me like
27:04for you Steven the bolt
27:05you bought this pico projector some of
27:07these projectors were kind of you know
27:09objects of gadget lust Benedict did you
27:12walk out of there with a new lapel
27:15camera or like was there anything you're
27:16like wow I can't wait that's every now
27:18and then you see a kind of a piece of
27:19genius so the piece of genius that I saw
27:22was the 9-volt battery that you put in a
27:24smoke detector that form factor but
27:27inside you've got a little iron
27:30rechargeable battery and a Wi-Fi chip
27:32and a microphone and so you put it in
27:34your smoke detector and then it pings
27:37your smartphone as this motor educates
27:38off totally brilliant pack I I loved I I
27:46definitely loved that one I want it let
27:48me add one more sure which was a camera
27:50and this was actually I want to add this
27:51because there's a whole wing of the show
27:53floor that was new this year that was
27:54featured basically IndieGoGo and
27:56Kickstarter and new companies right at
27:58some of them hadn't brought their
27:59products to market but an elapsed I Oh
28:02which is listed in the post of mine is a
28:04time-lapse of camera which is another
28:07camera but it's two HD cameras in a box
28:11that has a solar panel charger and a
28:13battery and a phone basically and and
28:16what it does is it does time-lapse
28:18photography which like forever because
28:20it's solar powered so you just say
28:22you're building a giant building digging
28:24a giant hole building a bridge you just
28:26put this thing up raising a kid yeah you
28:29just put this thing up and it forever
28:31will do a time lapse and but what's so
28:34cool about is I literally means forever
28:36because you don't ever need to go to it
28:39like it streams the the time-lapse to
28:42your mobile phone so it it it's like
28:45this mind-blowing combination of things
28:46for you know it's not like a problem
28:48that everybody has but if you've had it
28:50and you've tried to solve it it's
28:52impossibly hard like you could go read
28:54National Geographic does the pictures of
28:56the Tigers and the jungle and like it
28:58requires solar panels and big giant
29:00cages and boxes and people have visited
29:02everyday and satellites and all sorts of
29:04stuff to go deal with it and you know
29:07like basically in fact the funny part is
29:09the CES show itself tons of time-lapse
29:12happens because all the big companies
29:13that build their boots out actually do
29:15time-lapse of building these boots
29:17because they're basically these mini
29:18cities that get built over the first
29:21three days of the pre-show Benedikt
29:23anything else that struck you as a bit
29:24of genius and or a bit of just like oh
29:27my god what is that person or those
29:29people thinking um will you always see
29:32like the kind of the crazy funny bits of
29:34innovation like the pair of headphones
29:36that have another pair of speakers on
29:37the top of the headband pointing forward
29:39so other people can hear what you're
29:40listening to I thought that was kind of
29:41a good a good moment yeah and you know
29:44the company that's got four little kind
29:46of actuators that you put under the legs
29:48of you're safer so that your sofa will
29:49lock as you're playing a computer game
29:51and there was like there was a doggy
29:54FaceTime thing where you basically put
29:57this little paw button on the ground and
30:00then there's a camera and the dog can
30:01come over and push the pause button and
30:02then it calls you the owner and then you
30:05can send like smells back to the dog by
30:09that you do not deserve to own a dog
30:10right or you could have a tree come out
30:12so it's sort of like a mobile and able
30:14Pavlovian experiment for your home you
30:17have laughs experiment for your phone I
30:19yeah but you know again that's the kind
30:21of thing that would have taken like five
30:23years of hardcore technology development
30:25and not worked on behind a firewall and
30:26now and now it's you know it's $50 and
30:30it's just my phone chips inside so you
30:31can make all kinds of it's like a
30:33stocking mere stuff or things you know
30:35like it's crazy Wow for your dog well if
30:38you guys own dogs I expect to see that
30:40your homes now and pictures of you
30:42sending your dogs treats from your phone
30:44Benedict Stephen thank you guys so much
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