00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland and we are here today with
00:05stent MK V who is a co-founder and CEO
00:08of top org Stan welcome hello and Stan
00:13was also Annie I are here at Andreessen
00:15Horowitz for a period which is where
00:17teleport I think was just stated am I
00:20correct that is true
00:21teleport was one of the classic stories
00:24of Annie I are coming into a VC firm not
00:26having a clue of what to do which
00:29company to join which one to build all
00:31that and mere eight or nine months later
00:34BAM we go out and we hone the company I
00:36will say after Stan left our kind of
00:39dress and fashion quotient went down
00:43drastically and this is a podcast so you
00:46can't see him but you know one day you
00:47will and you'll you'll see what I mean
00:49so Stan obviously we're here in Silicon
00:51Valley and there is this sort of bias in
00:55Silicon Valley and you know at the firm
00:57as well that Silicon Valley is the
00:59center of youth of the universe and you
01:01and your career you were at Skype you're
01:03from Estonia um you have but you went to
01:07business school here at Stanford I mean
01:08you've straddled all these worlds and
01:10you've you've gotten pulled in by a
01:13Silicon Valley but you know you have
01:15this great perspective one that Silicon
01:17Valley is the center of the universe for
01:19some but it's not for others or you can
01:21participate in different ways and and
01:23that seems to be what teleport is all
01:24about and also what how the changing
01:27nature of work is kind of all about that
01:29too but let's talk about how you've you
01:33sort of centers of gravity and and how
01:35people should think about their own
01:36careers and and and companies in
01:38business circularly definitely is a very
01:42special place in the world like there is
01:44no doubt if you if you look at the
01:45amazing technology that has come out of
01:47this very tiny speck on the globe over
01:50the last 40 years and and more recently
01:52what has happened in specific in
01:54software and the internet moment and all
01:57these consumer internet businesses that
01:59have been born here like no doubt like
02:01it's it's a really unique place at the
02:05same time it's a place where you have
02:07once once you go on this high tide and
02:10and successes come along
02:12and the IPO has happened and more smart
02:14people moving in and the bay area itself
02:17is like seven million people and the
02:18quarter million people try to enter it
02:21right whole bunch of them again leave
02:23because they can't afford to live here
02:25or they start flopped or all that so
02:27there's this whirlpool of people going
02:29around and in that midst you see some of
02:33the more negative side start to pop up
02:35if you look at the things like a u.s.
02:37immigration policy how hard it is to
02:39actually get smart people into this
02:41country yeah today yeah and to stay if
02:44you look at the cost of real estate I
02:46was recently talking to an Eastern
02:48Europe entrepreneur who just realized
02:50that what he's paying for his San
02:51Francisco one-bedroom is about his
02:54mother's annual salary back home like
02:56like if the cost base goes to that those
02:59extents you just have to ask is that all
03:01this benefits of Silicon Valley this or
03:02the plenitude of ideas and extremely
03:05smart people who have learned how to
03:06scale businesses and build technology
03:08that scales to billions of users and all
03:09this beautiful nice things like are they
03:12are actually justifying the costs or the
03:15downsides that you have to pay so for
03:18example if you are a a unfunded founder
03:21with nose valley ties and you just land
03:23in SFO with an intent to build a
03:26successful business this is probably one
03:29of the most extensive places where you
03:30can spend your resources just to network
03:33a bit and get to know people because
03:34nobody's waiting for you and nobody's
03:36gonna hand you the seed investment and
03:38bring you the first million users test
03:40for the fun of it yeah and yeah that
03:42happens all the time
03:42and and actually you wrote a piece about
03:44you know should all you know
03:46entrepreneurs pack it up and move to
03:47Silicon Valley and I guess maybe the
03:49answer is maybe not yeah I think there
03:53are a few few sides of the answer to
03:56that first of all the the reason no
03:58Universal answer it's a mix and match
04:00and that's one of the key insights
04:01behind teleport is that there are
04:03environments in the world there are
04:04places x and y-coordinates in world
04:05where you have a particular tax
04:07structure a particular cost of living
04:09particular availability of jobs
04:11particular people that you might want to
04:13work with and so all these positive
04:16things and on the other on the other
04:17side it's you as a human or you as a
04:20company where you have your particular
04:22needs are you looking to extend your
04:25runway and save cost
04:26to raise money are looking to hire smart
04:28people I do want to be close to your
04:30clients or do you want to be close to
04:32your loved ones is there a particular
04:33hobby maybe you're a snowboarder like do
04:35you need to be near the mountain right
04:37and so the trick is how do you take
04:39those two sides you take this data about
04:41quality and costs and opportunities
04:43around the world and the data or your
04:45personal profile of what are you looking
04:47for and match them in an optimal way so
04:49for many people Silicon Valley might be
04:51an answer but it not might not be or
04:53what my my thesis is that it's not a
04:56binary answer anymore it's not like
04:59should you move to the valley or not
05:00it's like okay you're in software
05:02business when and how and how often
05:04should you spend time in the valley and
05:06what are the other places where you need
05:07to write what part does the valley
05:09occupy in your company is that you you
05:11know is it your development team is that
05:12your sales team is that is it closer to
05:14your customers is it you know is it
05:15something else how has that worked out
05:18for you at teleport and and maybe you
05:20can also talk a little bit about how
05:22that worked out at Skype because I think
05:24you know for us Americans there was the
05:27sense that Skype was a company here from
05:29the valley but of course it wasn't Skype
05:32was born out of a Swedish and Danish
05:36founder working with for Estonian
05:40founding engineers soon after there was
05:42a first American on the team in
05:44Stockholm and by the time so it got to
05:47like seven people with four
05:48nationalities and then it was legally
05:51headquartered in Luxembourg and then
05:52there was a business office open in
05:53London and then soon after the
05:55engineering expanded to Prague and then
05:57there was Hong Kong and Singapore and
06:00and Tokyo and all this other office
06:02coming so by the time we got to 200
06:04people we had 10 offices across 16 time
06:06zones right and us both usage wise in
06:10the very first years as well as sort of
06:11any physical presence wise was minor it
06:14like it was like if you if you tried
06:17marketing business development
06:19partnership related people who were
06:21working out of San Jose after eBay
06:23acquired us so it was an extremely
06:25international company partially because
06:27we were building a product that kind of
06:29allows us to build the kind of company
06:30like oh well we have free video calls we
06:33just built them why not use them right
06:35but on the other side I think it really
06:37added to the sort of Cordy
06:39nay of the company like if you're if
06:40you're really serving an international a
06:42global user base you need to have people
06:47close to those users this is I think a
06:50universal advice is that if start the
06:52past doubts about where to locate
06:53themselves is probably closest to the
06:55users is not the worst bet right and and
06:58so being spread around the globe I think
07:00gave us some perspective across
07:01different cultures and languages and
07:03currencies and payment methods and all
07:06these things that you need in order to
07:07run the global business and it made the
07:09organization internally much richer
07:11because we were much more free to hire
07:12talent wherever that talent happened to
07:14be it wasn't about like how can we get
07:16all these people move to this one
07:17location how how do you I mean you say
07:21that you should be close to where your
07:22users are I think in some cases it's
07:25hard to know when you start but in the
07:27case of teleport what does that mean for
07:29you guys a teleport we're building
07:32software for people to figure out where
07:35they should be and then help them to get
07:38there once they know where they should
07:39be and we've decided that our first user
07:41group or the the people who are focusing
07:43on you know your one right now has been
07:46started people like us the founders and
07:48employees and the tech workers and the
07:49knowledge workers and why that is the
07:51case is that it's this one of the first
07:55generations of people in the history who
08:00by the nature of the work that they do
08:02can do it virtually anywhere like think
08:04of this this stereotypical 24 year old
08:07coder who can step off an airplane go to
08:09a random coffee shop that has Wi-Fi open
08:11up the computer and they can continue
08:13working on their code and commit them
08:15github exactly the same way they did in
08:17this last place and they probably find
08:19the place to say for the evening or
08:21narrow Granby and they get the nubra
08:22together or a list and and like all of
08:25those things mean that they are much
08:27more free to choose their location than
08:30they used to be right now now if you
08:31think back at their parents and
08:32grandparents what was happening was that
08:34all most of the economic migration in
08:36the world always happened towards jobs
08:38like towards places where you could get
08:40good fulfilling work for a good pay
08:42that's the sort of the Californian Gold
08:45Rush like people were physically coming
08:46to the place where they're supposed to
08:48go to dig it and now you can actually
08:51have a whole bunch of people do
08:52the same thing and moving to places
08:54where there are jobs but there's this
08:55new class of people who can move
08:56elsewhere because they can continue
08:58doing the job and this is where the most
09:00interesting arbitrage happens is that
09:02while this income bit is becoming
09:05loosely tied or detached from location
09:08and is happening on the internet
09:10increasingly if you look at the cost
09:13side then it's still very much dependent
09:16on your x and y-coordinates on planet
09:17earth right like for a normal person who
09:19is just doing what they do every day and
09:22not doing this but spectacular one-time
09:26financial event about 70% of their money
09:30that they see in the lifetime goes to
09:31just two things it's primary resonance
09:33and taxes so if your income is global
09:37and you can earn money on the internet
09:38and you can change your location and
09:40change your cost base and change your
09:43taxation and change all these other
09:45things on the underneath you can
09:47actually create this very interesting
09:49scenarios where you can basically travel
09:52the world and see it for free if that
09:55gets to this this sort of idea and mark
09:57has understand is written about this you
09:59know that there should be 50 Silicon
10:01Valley's do you start to see people pull
10:04and kind of geographies because of all
10:06these benefits that you just a lot there
10:10are a few things that are happening
10:10definitely there are hubs like it's
10:12still efficient in some situations or in
10:16many situations to be in the same room
10:17with people before oculus kicks in with
10:19proper telepresence like it'll take some
10:22time but we'll get there meanwhile it's
10:24good to have people in the same place
10:25so you will have flocking of certain
10:27kind of like-minded people near the
10:30universities researching a particular
10:32area near the places where the last
10:34successful company is because some
10:37people leave that company and create new
10:38companies and right and so forth what
10:41I'm violently against is trying to
10:44depict us as 50 Silicon Valley's aha I
10:47think that's a crucial mistake that many
10:49many governments around the world are
10:51doing is that they are asking the
10:52question how can we create our own
10:53little Silicon Valley here and then
10:56there is media that often amplifies some
10:59innovation success in some part of the
11:00world saying that this is the you know
11:02this is the new Silicon Valley of X
11:04Silicon Valley or the East
11:05or the Wester than all four or the
11:07mountains or the sea if you dig into
11:11that then you realize that as any
11:14startup in order to win the incumbents
11:17needs to be 10x better than that
11:19incumbent right it's impossible to be
11:22another Silicon Valley and be 10x better
11:24than the Silicon Valley that already
11:26exists so I think all these other harps
11:28that undoubtedly are popping up around
11:31the world and there are the examples of
11:33I don't know mobile gaming in Finland or
11:36there is an example of specific kinds of
11:40mobile payments related things that can
11:42only happen in Africa and as these
11:44things pop up they usually do so because
11:48if you compare them to Silicon Valley
11:50they are doing something that Silicon
11:52Valley is particularly not good at and
11:54doing that thing 10x better right as
11:57opposed to trying to replicating the
11:59model that is working unarguably worried
12:01well here but the other part of the sort
12:03of 50 Silicon Valley idea that you're
12:05violently opposed to is this idea
12:07opposed to label orignal to campos de
12:09leyva okay is this idea of you know and
12:12you mentioned taxes and kind of
12:13regulation and and and preparing or sort
12:17of prepping an environment that will
12:19allow for you know smart people to come
12:22in and do things you know drone valley
12:24driverless car you know mountain these
12:29are perfect ideas i think if you look at
12:30the overall picture of where the
12:33innovation and regulation collide in
12:35Silicon Valley and in the u.s. in the
12:37broadest sense probably that's a good
12:39laundry list of places where to focus
12:41for all these other innovation hubs
12:42outside like if you if you wanted to
12:44build a a a company that operates drones
12:48and trades in Bitcoin while doing that
12:50and and maybe layer something I don't
12:53know stem cells into that mixer so it's
12:56very unlikely that you should create
12:57that company in Mountain View right it's
12:59it's probably a massive opportunity for
13:02somebody would it be in Asia or would it
13:05be in certain parts of Europe to say
13:07that okay a government comes in and says
13:08that hey here is 10 square kilometers of
13:11land and here's the regulatory
13:13environment and hey you can experiment
13:15with these things and that's fine and I
13:19that's something that has been seen in
13:22the world before in case of special
13:25economic zones which at the time used to
13:29be when they started popping up on the
13:31Chinese coast for example then they were
13:32all about containers like if you take a
13:35container of physical goods and put it
13:37down on this square mile of land then
13:40different rules apply right now you see
13:42in Shanghai there is one that is fully
13:44focused on finances and money already to
13:46is today is quite virtual so if some
13:48words feel good moves through this area
13:50then there is a different set up of
13:52currency exchange rules or what not but
13:54you can project that into future and see
13:57what are these other things that that
14:00could influence is set the people or a
14:03set of companies to choose one location
14:05over another so I think the message of
14:08teleporting in your you know your
14:10personal history is a really sort of
14:11optimistic one and and one that you know
14:13if I'm an entrepreneur who's not sitting
14:15in downtown San Francisco or Palo Alto
14:17or something it's one that I'd love to
14:19hear what do you advise when you're
14:24building that kind of company I mean
14:25teleport you guys are a far-flung
14:28international company with fewer than
14:30ten people right now is that right yeah
14:32we have nine people full-time plus a
14:34number of freelancers we're spread
14:36around six countries it's two people
14:40currently here free in Estonia one in
14:44Switzerland one in Germany one in Kiev
14:46Ukraine one intern working out of London
14:49and one of my co-founders silver just
14:51moved to Medellin from here and is now
14:54hanging out in Galapagos Islands so
14:55coding during the day and swimming with
14:57it often so that sounds actually great
15:00but when you build that kind of an
15:02organization what what are the
15:05advantages and what are their
15:06disadvantages and what do you really
15:07need to be mindful of and and if you're
15:09thinking about it in those terms like
15:10hey I would love to hang out in the
15:13Galapagos Islands while I'm coding how
15:15do I go about doing that there are a few
15:16things there the the there were the
15:18elements that you look at have to look
15:20at individually and then there is the
15:22group dynamic so how do you make the
15:24team actually work on the individual
15:26layer level it's actually pretty
15:27straightforward you have to actually
15:29have that trigger and think about it are
15:32the right place what are your life goals
15:34what are the things you want to achieve
15:35what are the things you want to
15:37experience and different people have
15:39different settings like like my if you
15:42don't have a family you have maybe much
15:44more spontaneous luxury to move around
15:46and you do when you have kids but being
15:49a father are free and living in our
15:50fourth country right now I could argue
15:52that this is not a hard limit right to
15:55to choosing the location carefully so
15:57that's that set and then it becomes much
15:59more interesting and complex when you're
16:01actually trying to make a team work and
16:02now we're a team that started pulling
16:05together last tune so a little less than
16:07a year we've worked together we launched
16:09free products with this remote setup
16:11we've gotten into this nice rhythm of
16:13releasing software building software
16:14understanding the users from all these
16:16different locations so so hopefully that
16:18has some credibility towards talking to
16:21this topic we there first there is the
16:26kind of people that you can hire there
16:29is a certain set of culture this
16:32individualism being an entrepreneur
16:36getting stuff done without direct orders
16:39but these things I apply to most people
16:41who are the ideal target hires for a
16:43startup so I think there is one that is
16:44quite easy to take down people who who
16:47can self motivate and do stuff then the
16:50second is a very good very clear culture
16:53and routine around how does that team
16:55communicate so there is this framework
16:57that is porous from the open source
16:59movement mind you again like there are a
17:01few hundred people working on Linux core
17:04and it still ships and releases and
17:06works quite well in the majority of
17:07worlds web servers right so so what
17:11products can be built that way and there
17:12is this framework that is derived from
17:13that world which is basically free
17:16things write liberally write a lot and
17:19often because you're submitting written
17:22tickets to each other you're sitting in
17:23group chats or slack channels and all
17:25this places you have to document things
17:28in a way that is concise because people
17:30have to read a lot on the other side but
17:32it's still very understandable and and
17:33and why not also funny and pleasant to
17:37read right the second point is checked
17:39occasionally so a teleport we have a
17:42very good rhythm of this is what our
17:44team call looks like
17:46because face time across ten times on
17:48ours is extensive like let's minimize
17:49that less structure it in a more useful
17:51way let's schedule it in a way that it
17:53works for everyone then there is a
17:55schedule of one-to-one FaceTime calls
17:57like as a CEO of a sub 10 person company
18:00I still want to talk to every single
18:01person every week so we've set up a
18:03structure where we have that opportunity
18:05and even more so there is this set of
18:07meetings that have an open agenda that
18:09that everybody can populate by their own
18:12and then there is again like a set of
18:15other working groups or people working
18:16on a particular product that they're
18:18communicating and then the last the
18:20third crucial point is is congregate
18:22occasionally yeah I was gonna say when
18:24do you actually get together live you
18:26know in in person and that's that's
18:28something which we we want to also power
18:33with our software so it's it's extremely
18:35interesting for us to see ourselves how
18:37we behave with that so this far it
18:41seemed that we get somebody across the
18:44ocean usually to date mode it's mostly
18:47the team but sometimes it's a subset of
18:48the team every three or four months so
18:51somebody is crossing from Europe to us
18:53or us to Europe and in between there is
18:56some occasional smaller travel happening
18:58like people who are based in Europe try
19:00to get together in a preferable pace
19:02like spending a week a month together in
19:05the early days of starting to it
19:06together starting working together
19:08that's I think that's a learning that we
19:11got from Skype is that you can build
19:13human relationships face to face and
19:14then you can maintain the mower video
19:16calls right and when you're booting up a
19:18new team you have to ensure that there
19:20is enough of that face-to-face time
19:21happening the obvious potential critique
19:24for getting the team together often and
19:25congregating is is the cost attached to
19:28that that you're not only adding
19:29complexity you're also adding cost and
19:31who funds that but in in my experience
19:34the competition on tech talent and the
19:37top engineers in the world in Silicon
19:41Valley has grown to a point where that
19:42if you hire a person outside here like
19:47you go to even Portland OR Seattle or
19:49Vancouver or even London or Tokyo which
19:52used to be this expensive city like the
19:56difference your people will be still
19:58happy and paid on top of them
20:00but the difference for you as an
20:01entrepreneur or funding this entire
20:03thing means that there is money left
20:04over that you can easily spend on
20:06getting these people together every few
20:07months and they will actually maybe
20:08enjoy getting out of their home office
20:10right so you can get great talent and
20:12you can bring them together on an
20:13occasional basis that's yeah that's a
20:15recent pointer was a Paul Graham what
20:19wrote the great essay on this topic is
20:21that reminding the American public and
20:24the tech scene that if you look at the
20:26statistics if you look at the
20:28probability the distribution of the top
20:30tech talent in the world it's not
20:31probable than more than 5% of the tech
20:33talent is in this corner right now right
20:36and so the question is how do you get to
20:38that 95 percent Paul's argument was that
20:4295 percent probably part of that wants
20:44to move to Silicon Valley and should be
20:46allowed to do so which is true but I
20:48would also argue that if you are able to
20:50crack distributed teams and remote work
20:53and build cultures of companies that
20:54actually can do that and there are some
20:56examples like automatic with WordPress
20:59in hundreds of people and buffer and
21:00this 37signals and this companies were
21:03like really shown that you can grow
21:05large doing remote work then you have an
21:08opportunity to get to those 95% percent
21:10of people much faster and enable them a
21:13higher quality life or letting them live
21:14where they want to live you talk about
21:16how to work together remotely well and
21:17build relationships in person then you
21:19can take them off you know in to video
21:21chat say you are you know we're a Skype
21:25veteran back from the early days just
21:27could you please tell me a little bit
21:29about the etiquette of video chat I you
21:31know sometimes I always I find that it
21:33doesn't work as well as it might and
21:35it's for reasons of people not engaging
21:37in the right way I feel well the video
21:41chat video chat thing is definitely not
21:43cracked yet okay yeah it's not just you
21:48I'm sure there are many people at the
21:51early Skype but many people in current
21:53Skype / Microsoft - who would agree that
21:55they're still out there
21:57there are is there are some things that
22:00you can do which are pretty simple
22:02things like first of all is to not try
22:04to save money on equipment like if your
22:09computer doesn't have a good microphone
22:10or doesn't have a good cam
22:12like get the next a while and get there
22:14is even a really relatively cheap USB
22:17headset will do miracles to the quality
22:19of the call right then scheduling the
22:22calls or having a good rhythm helps so
22:25it's it's much harder to do this
22:27technically the calls that have
22:29technical friction or the meetings that
22:30have technical friction on a more ad-hoc
22:32basis so it's good to like if you know
22:35that every Tuesday morning you have that
22:37call at 8:40 and you know that you're
22:39behind the desk and actually it's it's
22:41you're in that coffee shop that has the
22:43good Wi-Fi right that sort of things
22:45help through simple things like like
22:47positioning yourself in front of the
22:49camera like there are so many people who
22:50try to sit in front of the window so the
22:52camera gets all the light behind them
22:54and not them and so these are probably a
22:57matter of practice and telling each
22:59other let's hey dude I can't see you
23:01again but yeah and we should just do it
23:02more I guess I I remember an editor who
23:04shall remain nameless who would look at
23:07a point like off into the distance like
23:09I was staring at Jupiter or something
23:10the whole time and I found it so
23:12distracting on but one more one more
23:15thing is interesting there is this
23:17ambient communication that still I think
23:20is a huge field that will improve it's
23:23nowhere near perfect yet what you notice
23:26is that when there is already more than
23:28one person in any location when you go
23:30from this loose items into some
23:32molecules of people at different places
23:34then it's very easy to do they put two
23:39TVs on two sides and create virtual
23:41tunnels to another location in something
23:43that you can sort of see other people
23:44working and maybe you can shout out to
23:46them and they will somebody will walk to
23:48the screen and talk to you there is one
23:50thing that is obstructive to that these
23:52time zones it's hard to do across long
23:54time zones but I know many companies
23:55inside us for example who are doing it
23:57across like one or two hour time zones
23:58you still have enough overlap to do that
24:00and then there are startups like
24:02squiggle is one that is doing this
24:03trying to replicate the same experience
24:05on this corner of your screen so you
24:07have people working behind their
24:09notebooks when they're online they all
24:10see each other images and can one click
24:12to start the call and I think there is a
24:15lot of innovation that still happens
24:16with this tooling for remote teams so
24:19you guys obviously build software and
24:22that's what you do and we
24:25talk about the sort of mobility of of
24:27workers are you seeing this migrating to
24:31other industries I mean you know you
24:34talk about knowledge workers and clearly
24:35that's an easier place to start but is
24:38there any reason to think that we can't
24:39you know build companies and build
24:41organizations and build groups and solve
24:43problems that are sort of outside of
24:45coding say or maybe coding is a big part
24:47of it but anyway they're in different
24:48industries oh there I think there are
24:51many people working jobs that require
24:53physical presence that are constantly on
24:55the move the I I don't know you can
25:00think of people flying airplanes or
25:03whose job is in logistics but leaving
25:05even those aside there was I recently
25:08heard the case of there is this entire
25:10industry of people working on movies
25:12behind the scenes the the guys doing the
25:15lightening and the costumes and and set
25:17design and whatnot and if you're in top
25:20of the world in that and then you're
25:22working with a Hollywood studio who
25:23again for cost reasons is going out to a
25:26certain filming set in Eastern Europe
25:28and then the next movie happens in New
25:30Zealand and you have to be in all this
25:32places two or three months at the time
25:33you're all of a sudden you have a
25:34location issue like okay where do you go
25:36when when is your next gig like should
25:39you buy tickets now should you rent the
25:40place you the stage look like it's a job
25:43that requires a physical presence and
25:44there is a many worry worried like
25:49technically niche areas like if you are
25:52a specialist in fixing oil platforms or
25:57something that's right then you you
25:58you're constantly traveling if you're
26:00telcos are employing a lot of people who
26:03go around the world and fix certain
26:04kinds of data network equipment or
26:06something like that and that this goes
26:09on and on so traveling salesmen
26:12business consultants like ask a typical
26:14McKinsey consultant like how many days
26:16did they spend at home last year or what
26:19even home means yeah yeah and and that
26:21is an actually how we think about it in
26:23teleport is that if you if you have
26:25there's this slider where on one side
26:27you have the two day business trip okay
26:30I need to go to this meeting in this
26:32other city and then I'll come back
26:34probably the answer is get the plane
26:36ticket that is on sale
26:38and stay in the hotel closest to the
26:40meaning period and then on the other
26:42side you have this sort of major move
26:45that people do on average in the u.s.
26:48between five and seven years apart like
26:51when you graduate university you moved
26:53and you maybe you set up a family or you
26:55have kids or then you have a few moves
26:57during your career and then you retire
26:59in the move again so that's the other
27:01end of the scale every few years you
27:03move I think there is this uncovered gap
27:06on that scale between a two-day business
27:08trip and five-year move where we can
27:11help a lot with software like if
27:13somebody's going to a business trip for
27:14ten days in a new city like they
27:16shouldn't stay in a hotel I personally
27:18hate staying in a hotel them for more
27:19than a week so you should already look
27:21at okay what's the commute optimum place
27:23in Bay Area for me to stay should I stay
27:25in an air B&B this time Oh actually I
27:28want to go running and eat out well
27:30where are the restaurants and running
27:31trails and so our first product that we
27:33actually built is a Bay Area teleport
27:35which you you tell us where your work is
27:38and you can optionally tell us where
27:40your home is in Bay Area if you are
27:42already there and we'll just run the
27:44calculation for you where should you
27:46actually live what is the cost and
27:48commute optimal place and then you have
27:50a little slider that you can pull let's
27:52say that okay 45 minutes a day is too
27:53much what if I only commute 25 and then
27:56you pull it to the other way and then
27:57you realize that maybe 20 minutes of
27:59commute might change your annual budget
28:00by $25,000 so people should think about
28:04the location where you've described how
28:06how this works for Bayer and have
28:08teleport Bay Area Works um how do you
28:10apply that to the rest of the world then
28:12is there kind of a slider for the globe
28:14and also if I want to get together with
28:16people how do i how do I manage that
28:19after we we built the Bay Area
28:21experiment which really for us was an
28:23experiment like can we get the cost and
28:25quality of life data about the planet in
28:29a reasonable way and form can we make it
28:31searchable and can we build a user
28:32experience on top of that that doesn't
28:34suck so I hope we proved all of those
28:36for ourselves and early users with a
28:38Bayer product then we went on and we
28:40know three weeks ago released a mobile
28:43app that allows you to search across 100
28:45cities in the world so say you're a
28:47founder or so you you're an energy
28:49and you are looking for what's the best
28:53place to build my company what's the
28:54place where I could find the coolest
28:56Python developer job right now where
28:59could they lower my cost and have
29:00questions like that now you can go and
29:02get the teleport for start-up cities
29:03mobile app and we have hundred cities
29:05and about hundred layers of data about
29:07them so yeah what kinds of things can I
29:09kind of put into my my own calculus
29:12beyond just this basic cost and income
29:16layers we look at the things like
29:18pollution we look at the things like can
29:21you get around by public transport
29:22what's the flight connectivity what are
29:25the places you need to get to is it
29:27close enough time zones wise to your
29:29clients who else is living there how
29:33okay we're getting increasingly more
29:35into an optimization around groups
29:38mm-hmm on that note we released a
29:41another product just a week ago which we
29:44call teleport flock which is a really
29:46simple tool based on the data that we're
29:48already already collecting for our core
29:50products where we just ask you where are
29:53the members of your distributed team and
29:56we with one click will calculate where
29:59they should get together you know bosses
30:01always want you to come to where they
30:02are but maybe that's not the most
30:04efficient nor the most value driven in
30:08this first week we've had some amazing
30:09searches like I had a user tell me that
30:13they were a team in six countries in
30:16Europe and they just had 17 people come
30:18together two months ago
30:19and now he ran the flock query on the
30:23same set and found out that the place
30:25where they went intuitively was 2,000
30:27euros more expensive than the one we
30:30recommended and the one the cost
30:32estimate for the place they actually
30:34went to we were off by like 200 years or
30:36something like that on 17 people so we
30:38calculate the cost of tickets and
30:39housing and the flight ops and all these
30:41things so basically it's a task that
30:43every office manager in any office with
30:46several locations any company with
30:48several offices has has gone through and
30:51it means that the open 28 browser tabs
30:53and you look at like schedules and
30:54rattling and voting by email and all
30:56that so we do that in two seconds in
30:58which is I think is an interesting way
31:00how people can get the glimpse
31:02where we're headed with this sort of
31:03optimizing groups to find the optimal
31:05location for a short meeting but the
31:07same principles apply even more when
31:09you're making a life decision of going
31:11somewhere right so again it is this
31:12slider for the globe where okay I'm
31:14gonna move someplace I'm going to start
31:15a company or I just want to have a
31:17two-day meeting with all the people in
31:18my company exactly as when our
31:21co-founders Balaji who's a board partner
31:24Balaji was quipping the other day that
31:27there are apps that - they're
31:30location-based apps a teleport is kind
31:32of like app based location ah
31:34interesting interesting that's very
31:36clever that sounds like Balaji would say
31:37that I think my final question though is
31:40how should we think then about place you
31:43seem to have a much different point of
31:45view than you know many Americans and
31:47many of us here in Silicon Valley I
31:48think but what does place mean to you
31:50and then in this new work world that we
31:53all live in how should we start thinking
31:55more about it Americans by culture I
31:59would say are already very mobile like
32:02if you look at the numbers then then
32:07you have 1.5 2 million people coming to
32:11the u.s. from international from other
32:14countries legally as some people want to
32:18underline then you will have 7 million
32:20people moving state to state every year
32:22and then you have 40 million people
32:25changing their address or changing their
32:27primary residence so it's already like
32:30if you think of a 350 million people
32:32pool that's quite quite a lot a moment
32:34in that in Europe which is European
32:36Union is like 450 a bit more million
32:40people then the sort of movement from
32:42state to another is maybe 2 million a
32:45year instead of us 7 so they people are
32:47more put more cultural barriers the
32:49European unified market doesn't work as
32:51well yet you still need to get used to
32:53other regulations and languages and all
32:55these things but there is already some
32:56millions of people moving and then like
32:59you can turn to Asia and you look at
33:01there are 20 million people a year
33:03moving to cities in China alone so we're
33:06probably being a European routed
33:08software team we are not the guys to
33:10build software for Chinese moving into a
33:12Chinese city but all these international
33:15interesting for us and and how we think
33:18about place in all all that this Liberty
33:20to move and this intent to move and to
33:22find a better opportunities and being at
33:24a better place is very much tied to this
33:28overcoming this randomness like the
33:30place you were born in my co-founder
33:33silver wrote a great blog post about
33:34that that if you were born tomorrow he
33:37calculated the probabilities have
33:39certain not necessarily pleasant things
33:42happening to you yeah how likely it is
33:44to be born in a country were which
33:45happens to be on the communist regime or
33:48how likely I'm gonna be born in a
33:50country that has a recently had an armed
33:53conflict with more than thousand people
33:55dead and so if you look at these numbers
33:57and overlay all these things some of
34:00them are behavior some religious some of
34:03them are political then basically he
34:06came to a conclusion that there is 92
34:07percent chance that if you born tomorrow
34:09that you might be in an environment that
34:10you will not appreciate the place you'd
34:13rather be out of yes or something and so
34:14if that's the case and if you are a
34:16talented mathematician or a coder or a
34:20designer or a somebody who's dreamed to
34:23be a great musician and is born randomly
34:25in a country where that is not
34:26appreciated like why should you stay
34:28there like I think there's this long
34:31history of political and social theory
34:34around becoming a global village and I
34:36think now we are just living technology
34:38making that actually happen and changing
34:41your place and picking the optimal
34:43location considering location is is just
34:45the thing that rational people should do
34:48when living in that world well Stan
34:50thank you so much and I hope to visit
34:53you in another place one of these days
34:55soon yeah I know you're heading back to
34:57Estonia in the summer so I think that's
34:59where I would be in the summer time
35:00rather than the wintertime but still
35:02thank you Michael alright the light
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