00:00hi everyone welcome to the a 6 & C
00:01podcast today we're bringing you one of
00:03our internal hallways to all
00:04conversations about some of the things
00:06that Facebook announced last week at f8
00:08its annual developer conference and a6
00:10and z partners Kyle Russell and Connie
00:12Chen talk about everything from
00:14parametric QR codes they touch briefly
00:16on brain computer interfaces and then
00:18move on to a our augmented reality
00:19social VR virtual reality and even
00:22revisit a topic we covered on the
00:23podcast last year with a popular episode
00:25on BOTS to talk more about BOTS over to
00:28so did Facebook announce anything in a
00:30fade on the messaging front you know
00:32with your writings on WeChat you're kind
00:34of our resident expert on that so I'm
00:35really curious to hear how you I think
00:38they made a couple of announcements but
00:39the one that caught my attention was the
00:41launch of the parametric QR codes and I
00:44think it's great that they're putting
00:45this big push into getting users more
00:48familiar with this idea of using your
00:49phone as a scanner to scan QR codes that
00:52can take you I think in Facebook's case
00:54to a particular messaging bot
00:55conversation what I also liked in what
00:58they launched was that particular
01:00company or a restaurant or a venue or or
01:02whatnot can use multiple different codes
01:05to take you to different experiences so
01:08one example that I've seen talked about
01:10is a restaurant that can put a different
01:11code on each specific table so that each
01:14table can bring up an experience where a
01:16user can order food specific to that
01:18table so I'm not sure how what the
01:20uptake is gonna be given that QR codes
01:22have been around for many many years but
01:25has never been popular in the US but I
01:27love that Facebook is doing a big push
01:29into getting users more familiar with
01:32the concept so a little bit of maybe
01:34naive analysis I'd love to hear any
01:37pushback her response you've got is you
01:39know three five years ago in Silicon
01:42Valley if you asked about QR codes
01:44people would have kind of scoffed and
01:46said like yeah that was a fun little
01:47experiment but right very small fraction
01:49people actually have apps on their phone
01:51that you're just gonna scan these things
01:52and so they're not really this you know
01:54people aren't using them to link to
01:55things in the real world but now if you
01:57look at all of the kind of top social
02:00apps snapchat Twitter Facebook they're
02:03all baked in there to some extent
02:04typically on the like account identity
02:08sharing side of things you you share
02:09your snap code so that people can find
02:12right it's like baked into your profile
02:14picture so is basically what's change
02:16the fact that instead of needing this
02:18kind of random arbitrary utility app
02:21that you have to hunt down the app store
02:22it's just because it's baked into these
02:24applications that have hundreds of
02:25millions or billions of users like now
02:27it'll work I think that's the hope of it
02:30yeah if you ask the average American how
02:32to even scan a QR code even now they
02:35probably have no idea a 16 year old
02:40using snapchat and say like oh yeah do
02:42you use the snap you like QR codes to
02:44share your account all the time they do
02:45yeah well I don't really know what a QR
02:47code is but yeah I like sharing my
02:48profile picture right there's an
02:49education element that I'm hoping
02:52Facebook will contribute in terms of
02:54teaching the population how powerful a
02:56QR code can be is there anything I guess
02:58qualitatively different about how QR
03:01codes are used either in the real world
03:03or on the app side in China that reflect
03:05why there's been this kind of different
03:07set of outcomes here versus there
03:09well QR codes have been around in Asia
03:11for a long time not just in China but I
03:14think in China what really helped it
03:16take off as we made it front and center
03:18a primary way of adding a friend so as
03:21opposed to having to scan for a
03:23particular username because the
03:24usernames not even required when you set
03:26up a WeChat account or knowing their
03:28phone number for example you could just
03:30scan their QR code and so people were
03:32trained to use WeChat as a QR code
03:34scanner very early on and now you see QR
03:38codes implemented throughout WeChat in
03:41lots of really creative way it's not
03:42just payments and internet connectivity
03:45and so forth but many programs is
03:48something that they've launched which I
03:50actually think is totally
03:52underappreciated and you haven't really
03:54began to seen you haven't begun to see
03:57the power of them many programs concept
04:00in China yet ok so again just to briefly
04:02summarize many programs many programs is
04:06where and WeChat you use a QR code and
04:08it will basically take you to an
04:10experience that mimics whatever you can
04:13do in an application without having to
04:16download the apps so the closest Western
04:18parallel would be when Google announced
04:20their instant apps when Google and so
04:23now these are apps that basically make
04:24their way onto your phone almost
04:26a webpage downloaded just that just the
04:27parts you need and with like a deep link
04:29to it yeah yeah but it can take you to a
04:31specific page in the app and that's the
04:33powerful part it's not that it takes you
04:35to the homepage of the Amazon app it
04:38takes you to sign in no go straight to
04:41the product you want or the ladies of
04:43content or media that you're exactly and
04:45and that's why I think even though
04:48Facebook's solutions not as elegant the
04:50fact that it can take you to a specific
04:51page that's the really cool part that
04:54it's not just taking you to a front
04:55homepage that everyone sees so you look
04:58at messaging WeChat China I look at
05:00weird emerging computing things like the
05:02I and VR so I'm going to think about the
05:06spaces announcement for example actually
05:09so a segue I was going to do because it
05:11kind of touches on both of our areas was
05:13from day two the announcement that
05:15Facebook is working on a brain-computer
05:16interface they talked about wanting to
05:18look at the speech center of your brain
05:20and telepathically basically figure out
05:23what you're hoping to type out just by
05:25looking at those electrical signals and
05:27they even said that they have a goal of
05:28typing 100 words per minute just from
05:30looking at your thoughts so before we
05:32dig into the tech or even without look
05:34like his product thoughts on letting big
05:37nose read your brain oh gosh at least
05:41just based off the way my brain thinks I
05:43think that would be a very bad product
05:44for me so so I think it's an interesting
05:49concept but I have no idea how well it's
05:51gonna play out in terms of real life
05:53yeah so just for a little bit of context
05:55in history on the brain computing
05:58universe space the subject and you that
06:00the jargon and the name has been coming
06:02up a lot recently because of our buddy
06:04Elon Musk announced he's CEO of another
06:07new company now neural link wants to
06:09come up with a neural lace basically put
06:11electrodes on to your brain and do all
06:14kinds of things with that as input
06:15similar telepathy pulling your thoughts
06:18right out of there but also using it you
06:20know instead of needing touch or
06:21keyboard and mouse for other forms of
06:23input so what's interesting about
06:27Facebook's announcement is unlike Elon
06:29who seems to be totally okay with the
06:31idea of digging into our skulls because
06:33it provides enough value people will
06:35probably can I convert their norms and
06:37get comfortable with it they want to be
06:39invasive it'll sit on kind of the
06:41surface of your head and so devices like
06:43this have existed before I'd say kind of
06:46in the mid to late 2000s or these
06:49devices that were pitched basically as
06:51kind of a new form of gaming input you'd
06:52put them on your head you'd kind of look
06:54like this little cat that would fit
06:56closely against your hair maybe you have
06:58to put some electrodes on like your ears
06:59both idea is you'd use as an input for
07:02like a video game where you shoot a
07:03fireball from your left hand and so when
07:04you put this thing on and use it for the
07:06first time you'd have to train the
07:08software to recognize or map a specific
07:11input so you'd think like okay I'm
07:13shooting a fireball from my left hand so
07:14to train this thing you'd think
07:15left left left and even look at the
07:18electrical signals kind of at the
07:19surface of your skin and I come to
07:21associate that specific pattern with
07:22left then when you thought that in the
07:24game you'd actually shoot a fireball
07:26some of the time yeah kind of the
07:28problems with it you have to actually
07:30think about you know a specific input in
07:32that way looks so similar that'll
07:37trigger the same action right and so
07:39problems it's you have to actually
07:41specifically think okay I have to think
07:42about this word whenever want to use
07:44this input whereas most inputs that
07:46we're familiar with and come to love the
07:47mouse touch too or you know a game pads
07:50for video games they tend to be more
07:51like muscle memory as opposed to
07:53thinking about it okay and so that
07:54generation kind of in the same way it
07:56was like VR and the 90s is like oh
07:58that's cool that one day might be really
07:59interesting I think that's previous
08:01generation of brain computer interfaces
08:03was not great but showed kind where
08:05things might go and now with this
08:08current generation it seems like between
08:09Elon Facebook probably something from
08:12Google that we're actually gonna start
08:13to see these things that kind of
08:14invisibly actually just let you think
08:16something and have some kind of action
08:18show up on your computer it seems to be
08:20really impractical for the vast majority
08:22of people I think the argument for it is
08:25you know eliminate as much friction as
08:27possible most people can't actually type
08:28it even like 60 words per second
08:30especially as we transitioned you know
08:31to bring up the argument from hundred
08:35words per per minute right you think
08:38about you know like a 10 years ago the
08:40discussion about the switch from
08:41BlackBerry's with physical keyboards to
08:43the iPhone with touched I was a little
08:46bit slower and all the complaints people
08:47had I think people do care about
08:49optimizing like words per minute and
08:51getting their thoughts down
08:53digital paper you know they just want to
08:55get things out and down and then they
08:56can edit it if 100 words ended up every
08:59couple words had some gibberish in there
09:00because our heads are actually spinning
09:02why skip and leapfrog the whole audio
09:05input well think about for instance the
09:07use of these devices in public I think
09:09you know you talk about some of the
09:10concerns are using things like Siri I
09:12wouldn't about to some extent that
09:14concern is probably lessened by the fact
09:16that you just walk around in this like
09:18New York or San Francisco you see people
09:19talking into their phones all the time
09:20yeah people don't actually have them any
09:22concerns but you know if you're in maybe
09:23a smaller space like a subway somewhere
09:25where you don't want to intrude on other
09:27people's kind of attention space being
09:29able to just kind of get raw brain feed
09:31into the computer seems like a way to
09:33eliminate those kind of privacy concerns
09:35I mean audio comes with some benefits
09:37and nuances around intonation and speed
09:40and and your emotion behind it but when
09:42you think about the brain there are so
09:44many ways to translate a phrase and
09:46depending on which words this system
09:48chooses for you can give a completely
09:50different meanings right and this is
09:52where so we had a discussion on the
09:53investment team here about this when
09:55they announced it and what wouldn't
09:57shock me despite the lofty goals of
09:59getting those hundred words per minute
10:00you know kind of a success rate I have a
10:02strong feeling that what we're actually
10:04going to see is kind of getting ground
10:06truth reactions to for instance posts on
10:09social media where you know right now
10:11Facebook last year gave you the ability
10:14to instead of just giving a like to
10:15something that you've seen in your feed
10:16okay now I can say that it makes me
10:18happy or mad or sad or Wow and you have
10:22to kind of think about what is my
10:24reaction what do I want to signal to the
10:26original poster my reaction was even if
10:29it wasn't actually what my brain thought
10:31about it like and the story actually
10:32kind of made me sad but it's you know a
10:36very personal moment for my friend so
10:38I'm going to say I can go wrong right
10:41like say you see like an X is now dating
10:44of course you're furious are really
10:45upset but okay but you don't want to
10:47show that yeah and no but basically the
10:50idea is maybe it's for you in that
10:53communication or maybe it's for Facebook
10:54to know how you actually feel about that
10:57moment regarding you know separate from
10:59the input that you provide of
11:00intentionally interesting implications
11:03there on privacy and what do the social
11:05networks know about you versus
11:06what do you want to put out there so - I
11:08guess hop on other things related to
11:11cool future of social yeah what you
11:14think about all the filters yeah so
11:17again to kind of summarize Facebook
11:19announced that in the same way that
11:21they've slowly been kind of taking
11:23inspiration from snapchat with features
11:25like stories and and they acquired this
11:28company masquerade that let you do the
11:30kind of apply 3d models to your face -
11:32have fun selfies they announced
11:34something called an AR content studio
11:36where basically the facebook messenger
11:40Instagram cameras are going to be an AR
11:42camera app platform right I'm you're
11:44gonna be able to create fun little
11:46things that will map onto your
11:47environment you're out at a restaurant
11:48and you hold your phone up while on the
11:51line at Starbucks and it says how people
11:53specifically rated each product or you
11:56go to Coachella and hold your phone up
11:57and there will be arrows highlighting
11:59exactly where you should go to get to
12:01specific shows at particular times it's
12:03interesting to think about kind of
12:05difference in how the big companies are
12:06looking at this snapchat obviously kind
12:10of continuance practice of we're just
12:12gonna own the entire experience this is
12:13a when we think about AR it's a canvas
12:15for Evan Spiegel to run product
12:17experiments and push social you know
12:19user experience forward also brands will
12:21be able to do fun ads with it Facebook
12:23it's in the same with a messenger it's a
12:25platform for anyone to build on top of
12:27it to make messenger itself more
12:28valuable now Facebook's cameras will be
12:30a platform for people develop on to make
12:32more time do you think we'll ever get
12:35old I mean there comes the point where
12:36you have 50 people posting their
12:39Starbucks cup with the animated smoke
12:42coming out of it I think that there's
12:45enough hooks to provide in terms of what
12:47do you overlay on top of what context
12:49that there's a lot of runway for novelty
12:51there's a lot of kind of unique fun
12:53experiences where it only takes you five
12:56seconds to discover it because you're
12:57already in the habit of swiping through
12:58the filters of the week because they're
13:00regularly updated you find one that the
13:02novelty lines up with whatever you're
13:04doing and hey I'll use it today to kind
13:06of a broader question though is you know
13:08if you look at the discussion around
13:10augmented reality there's the idea that
13:13AR and the form of things like headsets
13:15of hololens magically what Apple is
13:20is the idea of you know laying
13:22overlaying information as you need it on
13:25top of the things where it's relevant
13:26you know the example being you walk into
13:29a conference room and it puts people's
13:31LinkedIn profiles on top of their heads
13:32so that you never forget anyone's name
13:34where you go out to a bar and puts their
13:35tinder profiles over everyone's faces so
13:37you know I worry that the some of the
13:41face mess will get old over time yeah
13:44face masks and also kind of the rest of
13:46the arbitrary content coming from the AR
13:48continents to do I mean headsets what's
13:51nice about the form factor especially as
13:52you move towards things like glasses is
13:54you can just kind of have things
13:56overlaid everywhere where it's relevant
13:59and you don't have to think about will
14:01there be something useful here that's my
14:03concern with AR on your phone is yes we
14:06all have phones and yes they all have
14:08these cameras and sensors to be able to
14:10pick these things up and know when to
14:12project but do we always want to have to
14:15go around being like oh I have to stop
14:17mid text message because I just walked
14:19into Starbucks and I don't need to
14:20switch over to the Facebook app so I can
14:22check if there are any Holograms here
14:24that are interesting to look at I don't
14:26know just the nature of it requires kind
14:29of switching your full out of whatever
14:31flow or workflow or process your imagine
14:34yeah it doesn't feel as smooth as you'd
14:37like for this kind of supposed to be
14:40magical things everywhere and that
14:41inherently means like leaving what
14:43you're doing it all the time the
14:44hardware form factor might not be the
14:46phone of course for this long term it's
14:48just we're so far from that still right
14:50you look at Poland it's $3,000 and maybe
14:54a couple hundred people own it I do
14:56think for me the face filters was a
14:57reflection of Facebook giving people
15:00more tools to have more reasons to
15:02create things right and and to show off
15:05their everyday lives even more so than
15:07they do today so to me it was more a
15:09reflection of wow how do I get someone
15:11to share their their day that seems a
15:14little bit boring perhaps and make it
15:16seem more interesting so they want to
15:17share more content ya know if you look
15:19at things like that or features again
15:21similar to but with their own take from
15:24things like snapchat you know overlaying
15:25specific stickers or emoji onto video
15:28but using kind of smart you know machine
15:31to be able to persistently place a
15:33sticker on a particular point in a video
15:35and as the camera moves to something
15:37else it stays you know you put a sticker
15:39on your friends face but you move the
15:42camera from that friend to someone else
15:43the sticker stays on that particular
15:44friend yeah it it's all these kind of
15:47light touch ways to make something kind
15:50of mundane into is a little bit more
15:52interesting I think you're right it just
15:54kind of promotes casually making content
15:57even in a situation where it's like this
15:59isn't particularly like a big event for
16:01us just we're out and about and you just
16:04kind of want to so there are two main
16:06things that's great and it's just
16:07another place for someone to get their
16:10creativity out but I worry that that
16:12almost dilutes the kind of content
16:14that's thrown at you on a day-to-day
16:16basis like if I'm just looking at all my
16:18friends post these mundane everyday
16:21events but made into beautiful pieces of
16:24art no matter how beautiful creative
16:26they are over time it makes me less
16:27interested so a little bit of a counter
16:30pointer pushback against that is if you
16:34look at Instagram or Facebook the nature
16:37of having metrics publicly exposed
16:39people and comment counts and things
16:42like that means that content typically
16:44can devolve into something like
16:46happiness theater you post your photos
16:49from the big family trip or when you got
16:51to go to see that great concert but you
16:52oh we got the VIP tickets and so we got
16:54to be even closer and we took a selfie
16:56near the stage it's all oftentimes
16:58you're going for impact and it makes
17:01that your social feed evolve into
17:03something that's oh I'm in touch with my
17:06friends and family because I want to
17:07know what they're doing to kind of
17:09everyone's in this like arms race of I'm
17:11having the cooler life yeah and by
17:13making the mundane more interesting I
17:16think it pushes back against that trend
17:17which is maybe actually healthier I
17:19guess I'm not sure if the filters are
17:21enough to cover the fact that our
17:24everyday lives are more mundane than I
17:26think we'd like to protect them to be
17:28and this is where I find it so
17:30fascinating to contrast that with WeChat
17:31moments so we chat moments doesn't have
17:34that public count of likes or comments
17:37and therefore at least I look at myself
17:39and anecdotally with my friends people
17:42share them in a very different mindset
17:44so if you post something
17:45we chat and say a mutual friend of ours
17:47comments on it I'll see it but if I'm
17:50not friends with that mutual friend I
17:51won't even see that comment so people
17:53comment and like things much more freely
17:55because it's not part of your I guess
17:58social record ya know and I mean from
18:01again just my own personal time on
18:02Facebook interjections from second
18:04cousins when you post a family photo
18:07oftentimes it's interacting with me and
18:13yeah it's like I haven't spoken with you
18:16in years and so I don't have to know how
18:18to respond to your friendly comment even
18:20if it's nice it's just weird almost
18:22burden and so to illuminate that
18:24pressure by hey keeping the reactions
18:27and comments specifically to the people
18:29who would care about them see how many
18:34likes any post hats and and so say if I
18:37see one of your posts and I only see
18:39three likes well maybe it's only because
18:40we have fewer mutual friends right been
18:43someone else so to connect to this to
18:45another big tech business narrative you
18:48know one of the big questions for
18:49snapchat is they make it really hard to
18:51discover other accounts they don't
18:52really tell you how any of your posts
18:54are doing and so it doesn't lend itself
18:56to building a brand and same way that
18:59you do on Twitter or on Facebook and you
19:02know strength to that is very tight
19:04graph you're not concerned with those
19:06things you're just interacting with
19:07people you care about downside is
19:09potentially huge growth in the future
19:11and so that you know yeah you can see
19:14how yes you can see the argument for
19:16doing that for eliminating this kind of
19:19a model of track how every single post
19:22you put out there does and try to like
19:24optimize even even if it's not something
19:27that's like explicitly told like no one
19:29is told hey like try to get more
19:30attention on Facebook it's one of those
19:32things where you optimize what's
19:33measured and so that's true for
19:36consumers in addition to businesses and
19:38so I get dopamine releases every time I
19:41get a like and so it's totally
19:44triggering different emotional needs I
19:47think all of these different platforms
19:48right kind of the last big product
19:50announcement that actually does kind of
19:53move along those lines that came out of
19:54Facebook f8 was Facebook spaces they're
19:58released social application for oculus
20:01rift which lets you hang out with your
20:03friends from your Facebook Graph in a
20:05virtual space doing really interesting
20:07things like playing 360 video around you
20:10while in a space also you know using
20:12having like a 3d rendered environment
20:14but the idea like one example they
20:15showed off was playing a 360 video of a
20:18like river boat tour that some friends
20:22were gonna take on a future trip and so
20:24they could almost like plan / preview
20:27what that experience is going to be like
20:28even though they were in different
20:30places looking at a 360 video of an
20:33entirely different location than either
20:34of them were in something there feels
20:36like it's going to be really powerful
20:37I'm actually curious to see kind of
20:40evolution and combination of that kind
20:41of experience with things like air B&B
20:42of you know you're planning your weekend
20:46getaway with your significant other you
20:48happen to both be at the you know your
20:49separate offices we want to quickly
20:51coordinate something you hop into your
20:53$50 VR headset that is an add-on for
20:57your phone and very quickly you can have
20:59this kind of spatial experience that
21:01gives you much more information than you
21:03get from just like sending an Airbnb
21:04listing with five photos that are really
21:06pretty but maybe you don't really get
21:07how do we compare this house versus that
21:09house yeah those however though is a
21:12little bit of with ins latest piece life
21:15of us yeah recently I got to experience
21:19that unfortunately I missed it when it
21:20was doing the run of the film festivals
21:23but yeah that was really cool one where
21:24it's multiple people in a narrative
21:27experience you're kind of walking
21:29through the timeline of life itself
21:31starting as single cell or you know very
21:34tiny multi-celled organisms all the way
21:37to right community and beyond
21:39now there's something really powerful
21:40and I wrote about this late last year
21:42something really powerful to social
21:44experiences in VR yeah I agree I've said
21:47this before on the podcast but something
21:48we hear all the time as VR enthusiasts
21:51is oh but isn't VR so you know
21:55anti-social and this is actually talking
21:57point that Tim Cook uses when he's doing
21:59his hyping up a are in the same way that
22:01he hyped up the Smart Watch space before
22:03they announced the Apple watch oh yeah
22:05we think the wrist is interesting now
22:06he's saying things like yeah we think AR
22:08is more compelling than VR because
22:11you're not blocked off from the people
22:12immediately around you which is true but
22:15that means you have to make a headset
22:16that you're not embarrassed to wear in
22:18so maybe Apple can do it but probably
22:21gonna be a couple years with but with VR
22:24so in the same way that when smartphones
22:27or phones where messaging was made
22:29easier with things like keyboards and
22:31just you know decent data connections
22:32people would tease people walking down
22:34the street while texting like get your
22:36head out of your phone what are you
22:37doing what looks like antisocial
22:38behavior is actually social behavior
22:40because there's more interesting people
22:42on the other side of that screen I think
22:44is the overall argument I'd make for
22:45social vr so what I found fascinating
22:48around this entire concept is if you
22:50think about games like World of Warcraft
22:52this concept of living in this alternate
22:55world and having a different persona
22:57fication of who you are it's it's a
23:00concept that has proven out to be really
23:02sticky for generations of gamers right
23:05and if you look at Warcraft and then you
23:07compare it to the way spaces kind of
23:10personifies you in that world and then
23:12if I compare that to what within
23:14produced with life of us where you are
23:17depicted as a cell and then a reptile
23:19and all kinds of different creatures I
23:20think it's really interesting to think
23:22about how does Facebook use your
23:24identity and how did they show you
23:26visually or even through audio in this
23:29new space this format will people
23:30naturally all go towards this bitmoji
23:33cartoon character that looks like you or
23:36are they all gonna turn into gorgeous
23:38female characters like they often do on
23:40Warcraft and how does that interplay
23:43with how on Facebook you're supposed to
23:45be your real self yeah this is
23:47interesting Facebook made the system
23:49that they made a giant dataset of
23:52celebrity photos plus bit mo G's
23:55associated with new spaces to train a
23:58machine learning model that then
24:00generalized to regular people and so
24:03looks at your profile photo then makes a
24:05kind of cartoonish avatar that looks
24:07like you but in a virtual reality where
24:09you and the environment are completely
24:12digital and fabricated why should you
24:15yeah and it's I want to be a cartoon
24:20alien maybe I just want to be
24:22me but different I actually saw
24:24interesting arguments raised from kind
24:28of you know thinking about being open to
24:31new and different identities you know
24:34for instance transgender users on
24:36Facebook do they want their avatar to
24:38have their voice or do they want the
24:40ability to have a voice changer make
24:43their the voice that comes out of them
24:45actually sounds like their own you know
24:47kind of imagined identity of themselves
24:49the identity that they think of when
24:51they like present themselves to the
24:53world in the real world there's some
24:55constraints about how you can present
24:56yourself versus again in this entirely
24:58digital world why not be 100% you that's
25:01an interesting thing for Facebook to
25:02consider so kind of another question on
25:05the messaging and applications kind of
25:07living within messaging fryin is it's
25:11coming up on a year since kind of the
25:13big push towards chatbots and other
25:15forms of conversational interfaces from
25:16Microsoft and Facebook and Google with
25:20Facebook you know they talked about
25:21messenger as this new platform for these
25:23different kinds of interfaces with yes
25:26there would be things using NLP you'd
25:27talk to services but it also have WeChat
25:29style kind of gooeys that show up in a
25:32conversation to what kind of just make
25:34workflows more seamless so we're made
25:36some more straightforward but we haven't
25:38really seen huge adoption of any of
25:41these apps and again my kind of read on
25:43this has been that Facebook hasn't been
25:45say the best steward of messenger is a
25:48platform for instance for the first six
25:50to nine months of it other than the kind
25:53of bots that Facebook itself
25:54specifically highlighted and linked to
25:56as releases and things I had no idea how
25:58to discover interesting applications
25:59within messenger and so felt like there
26:02was interesting experiences that could
26:03be built but they weren't really set up
26:06to succeed among users and so you know
26:09coming up a year later as Facebook done
26:11anything to make that platform better
26:14for developers they announced that
26:17they're including a new discovery tab
26:19into messenger so that you can find
26:21these spots my concern is that the issue
26:23around by usage and adoption is not is
26:26not actually the discovery piece it's
26:28that the great use cases for the bots
26:29haven't been created yet and that's more
26:34book educating developers or developers
26:36coming up at the right use cases and
26:39Facebook figuring out how to get people
26:41to attach their credit cards and payment
26:43credentials to their account because
26:45until you have a bunch of users that can
26:47buy things a lot of developers don't
26:50have an incentive financially to even
26:52create an interesting bot right a lot of
26:54these things feel like they're each
26:56necessary but not sufficient there is
26:57can you actually you know complete a
27:00transaction within this bot in messenger
27:03to kind of you know complete the loop
27:04you interacted with the service came
27:06upon a product or service that was
27:08interesting for you know in terms of you
27:10giving them money and then okay now I
27:11can actually execute on that here but in
27:14terms of the monetization versus
27:16distribution there's also if you can't
27:20get a user base in the first place to
27:22monetize assuming those features are
27:24there how is the platform itself going
27:26to be interesting for people so it feels
27:29like but that almost goes and tells me
27:31that they aren't providing enough value
27:32right like like the whole point of
27:35having payments integrated is that it's
27:37taking away friction for a user to be
27:39able to buy things more quickly and get
27:41it shipped directly to them and I don't
27:43understand why we're doing this big jump
27:45to using our brains to automatically
27:48know exactly what we're thinking but we
27:50can't even help people not have to type
27:53in their credit card numbers yeah I know
27:55I often think about the weird
27:57discontinuities and what works and what
27:59we're still working on it's amazing how
28:00many pitches we'll be in for
28:01self-driving cars or you know flying
28:04cars and we have trouble getting video
28:07from our laptop up to a projector people
28:11should be working on both yeah
28:13thank you thanks for listening
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