00:00hi and welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm
00:02Hannah and I'm here today with Michael
00:04Ovitz co-founder of the Creative Artists
00:06Agency and our own Ben Horowitz
00:07co-founder of andreessen horowitz in
00:09this episode we start by talking about
00:11the founding story of both CIA and a 16z
00:14and how exactly both firms went about
00:16redefining a traditional business in two
00:18different industries as a new upstart we
00:20talked about the power equation in
00:22Hollywood and the history of the
00:23entertainment business from the days of
00:25vaudeville and Jack Warner's and William
00:27Foxes to Jurassic Park to what it looks
00:29like today and where it's going and
00:31along the way Ovitz and Horowitz share
00:33the strategies that guided them in
00:34building a culture negotiation and more
00:37Michael has published a new book just
00:38out called who is Michael Ovitz is that
00:41like a reference to Kaiser so say knows
00:49who Kaiser Soze is I met then in 1999
00:54when he and Mark asked me to go on the
00:56board of loud cloud and I told a lot of
01:00stories about the entertainment business
01:02yeah oh good the print stories Rain Man
01:07story so I have to say I wake up and
01:10they're talking about starting their own
01:12business and possibly using some of
01:16those principles and I was in a state of
01:17shock that they actually listened to the
01:20story CIA was really an impossible thing
01:22in that if you looked at the agency
01:25business it had been around since
01:28vaudeville and the firm's were well
01:31established and if you're a new actress
01:33and you're picking an agency are you
01:36gonna go with the one who like rep Betty
01:39Davis and Greta Garbo and all the greats
01:42are you gonna go with some new start
01:44what is the differentiation like how
01:46could you possibly pull that off and the
01:48fact that he was able to create by far
01:52the most successful talent agency in the
01:5515 years after starting 75 years after
01:59vaudeville is an impossible business
02:01story we come from tech we're like okay
02:04you can turn something over because the
02:05technology changes but this was not a
02:07technology story it was one of
02:09organizational design culture and things
02:13turned out we'd use in venture capital I
02:16thought what was really interesting is
02:17that you were fundamentally re
02:19conceiving the idea of the agent what it
02:22should be but in some ways you were kind
02:23of returning to an old-fashioned idea of
02:25what an agent was yeah I think that's
02:27really well said we tried to ride a line
02:30between going back to the tradition of
02:33service but couple it with the concept
02:37of putting the talent back in the
02:41driver's seat because they'd been taken
02:43out of the driver's seat the ability to
02:46get product made in the business or to
02:49realize dreams was in the hands of the
02:52buyers and when we started there was a
02:56very large barrier to entry in the media
03:00business anything that you would read or
03:03see or hear was controlled by under 25
03:07companies around the world you had four
03:10television networks in the United States
03:12you had seven motion picture studios
03:15that had all the distribution and
03:17without that you couldn't get your movie
03:21you had five publishing houses in New
03:24York that did books yet about five
03:27record companies and then a scattered
03:30number of companies in Europe that had
03:32television networks but not a lot so
03:35basically if you were an artist you had
03:39a giant buried injury it's the opposite
03:42of today which is so fascinating to me
03:45that today and Ben and I talk about this
03:47all the time you could get almost look
03:49and get this podcast on you can get
03:54people to listen to it in the days when
03:56we started that was impossible if wanted
03:59to get something like this out into the
04:01hands of the consumer there was no way
04:04to do it incredibly powerful very few
04:06geeks right so basically we decided that
04:09we would give a unique and ultra deep
04:14service to creative people we couple
04:17that with an enormous amount of guidance
04:19and career advice that was incredibly
04:22direct we were less concerned
04:26about telling people things they didn't
04:29we were actually more concerned about
04:31telling them things that they didn't
04:32want to hear we thought too long
04:34artistic people had been given a lot of
04:36pablum then when you were looking at
04:38this model what was it that really
04:40struck you from this other industry that
04:42felt so translatable the whole thing
04:44it's actually funny everything that we
04:46tried from CAA worked and everything all
04:50the core principles so the first was
04:51this concept of a network so you know a
04:56firm shouldn't be just a group of
04:58independent people who all had their own
05:01isolated networks the network should be
05:03kind of owned and run by the entity
05:05itself and CA was a breakthrough in this
05:08because he had people who were dedicated
05:10to vertical parts of the network like
05:13publishing and so that of course we did
05:15as you know our networks were different
05:16but it was the same kind of systemic
05:19network that turned the platform into a
05:21franchise the other thing was they took
05:23pitching the clients much more seriously
05:25the agencies were very powerful they
05:27didn't have to put together a great
05:30presentation to the clients about what
05:33they did I think we're for sure the
05:35first and maybe still the only venture
05:36capital firm that has a pitch to
05:39entrepreneurs that's you know formal and
05:41professional and it involves lots of
05:44people so that worked but I would say
05:46the thing that I learned the most from
05:48were the cultural things that Michaels
05:50talking about so do you tell people the
05:53truth not what they want to hear that's
05:54like one of the cultural tenants of the
05:56firm but there were many others to take
05:58a long view or a transactional review of
06:01a relationship that came from CAA a lot
06:04of the idea of the platform was to have
06:06the luxury to take a long view of a
06:08relationship things like how do you
06:11treat people in the firm everybody here
06:13we refer to as partner that was taken
06:16from CAA we got a lot of criticism of
06:18that early but it worked well because
06:19we're in the services industry and look
06:22if you're representing the firm you are
06:23a partner and then you know the other
06:25thing was honest but respectful so you
06:28know showing up on time being ahead of
06:30the competition they did something at
06:32CAA which is they just started their
06:33staff meeting before everybody else and
06:35that just said to the company you know
06:37we're not effing around like we're gonna
06:39we're gonna be the first awake we're
06:41gonna be the last to sleep and we're
06:42gonna get all the best clients and
06:44that's what they did I mean it did
06:45strike me that a lot of those big
06:47conceptual shifts were about culture you
06:50talked about things like a focus on
06:52first impressions a siege mentality like
06:55you're with us or against us never
06:57badmouth the competition right these
06:59sort of core things that trickle down in
07:01all kinds of ways but some of what you
07:04were doing was actual business model
07:06innovation also can we talk about what
07:08those things were that were so different
07:10for the industry so I think it's
07:12important to note the idea was to
07:14differentiate so one of the things when
07:17Ben and I and more talked originally was
07:20there's several hundred VC firms that
07:22have been in existence for a long time
07:24when we came into the agency business
07:26there were 200 franchised agencies were
07:29new kid on a buck new kid on the block
07:31with nothing no clients how do you make
07:34a name for yourself by other than just
07:36saying oh we're fantastic which is
07:37irrelevant because everyone thinks
07:39they're fantastic even though they know
07:42deep down they're not but the reality is
07:44that it was about differentiation and
07:48how can you make yourself different and
07:50we decided we were going to create a
07:53service model that was completely
07:54different if you're an entrepreneur you
07:56come here you have access to things that
08:00you didn't have at a lot of other places
08:03in the community and that would include
08:06budget health you can get marketing up
08:07you can get PR help you can get advice
08:09about how to operate your business
08:10you've got a built in person to get
08:13operational advice on you've got
08:15extraordinary technical background so
08:17you can get technical advice I view what
08:20we did very much like a pointillist
08:23painting like the painter surah' if you
08:26look at it on a square inch of a
08:28pointillist painting you see a bunch of
08:29dots you look at two square inches you
08:32see a few more dots you have three four
08:34five and also maybe at six or eight
08:37square inches you start to see a picture
08:39so I think what we tried to do is look
08:43at our business like a pointillist
08:45painting which is how many points of
08:48differentiation are there that create a
08:50full picture within the culture there's
08:52all these little things
08:53there's just all these little things
08:55there's no one thing Hannah that you can
08:59you guys called everybody a partner
09:01that's really a game-changer it's a
09:03composite it's a composite of looking at
09:06a pointillist picture on the business
09:09principle side it was the same thing so
09:11this sounds ridiculous but telling
09:14someone the truth that seems so
09:16logically normal it was completely
09:19abnormal and the business we're in in
09:201974 it didn't exist knowledge was power
09:24but people felt they had the lie to show
09:26that they had knowledge and what were
09:28those kinds of lies just you're great I
09:30can get you that what were the actual
09:31empty flattery that's not what people
09:34are interested in people want to know
09:35the truth they want to be critiqued and
09:38they want positive criticism they don't
09:40want you to tear them apart without some
09:42thing to say that's constructive they
09:44want constructive positive critique in
09:47fact you say that's where you often
09:48started when you were trying to sign
09:50somebody well it was easier to tell the
09:52truth anyway the truth is a funny thing
09:54is the entertainment business is loaded
09:58with untruth the TV business less so
10:01because everything was so fast you could
10:04start a television an idea and get it
10:06made into a show very quickly but in
10:08movies it's years to get a movie made
10:10and released and the amount of story
10:13changes in not the story of the movie
10:15but the story around the story of the
10:17movie is quite extraordinary we
10:20pioneered this concept of I don't know
10:22the answer to that question but I'm
10:24going to get back to you now that's no
10:26big deal right but that's part of the
10:28composite it's part of the hundreds and
10:31thousands of points that we did to be
10:33different so let's shift gears again
10:35from culture and towards the business
10:37models what are more of some of those
10:39ways you were really doing something new
10:40on the business model side in the
10:42construction of business concepts we
10:45felt that no client should come up with
10:48an idea and go out and naked on their
10:51own with that idea standing on its own
10:55in the marketplace we felt that in-house
10:58we should take that idea like a lump of
11:00clay on a table and sculpt it into a
11:03magnificent sculpture that was
11:05a composite of a lot of elements other
11:09clients input and partnerships that gave
11:13us a full package and really use that
11:16leverage against the buyer to be able to
11:20play the game of you didn't put in any
11:22time or money to develop this we did so
11:25we want to be paid a premium now that
11:28worked really well for the creative
11:29clients it did not make us popular there
11:33is some controversy around you and a lot
11:34of it came from prior to CAA
11:37a top actor or actress made maybe a
11:39tenth or twentieth of what they did or
11:42maybe even a 50th of what they did after
11:44CAA because you changed the leverage
11:47from the studio to the talent and that
11:50was not free you know and so maybe
11:53describe what it was like how you
11:56changed it and why they were mad so I
11:59think I don't know that mad it's
12:02interesting I used to think that and I
12:04think it's more we did so many things
12:07that were positive for the creative
12:09community but we coupled it with this
12:12relentless aggressive attitude and this
12:15point of view that we had to win at all
12:17costs the big question for me was did we
12:20have to win at all costs at the time I
12:22actually thought we did someone asked me
12:25the other day do you think you could
12:27have done it differently in the day and
12:30I don't think that we could have because
12:32we were in a cutthroat business to start
12:34with we didn't invent the entertainment
12:36business it was a glorious Lisa
12:39notoriously cutthroat it wasn't a
12:41gentlemen's business my god if you go
12:44back to the moguls of the 30s 40s and
12:4750s the mayors of fathers the hairy
12:49cones that Jack Warner's of Warner
12:51Brothers William Fox
12:53you know founded Fox Studios these guys
12:56were tough as nails they took no
12:59prisoners they made us look like we were
13:00in the priesthood frankly now to me past
13:03his prologue so in studying all this I
13:07actually thought that the toughness of
13:11those guys was good because why well
13:15they were decisive you may not like the
13:19and they were doors when Diller decided
13:21to create the movie of the week on ABC
13:23which everyone said is a terrible idea
13:26and impossible you can't make a movie
13:28for 90 minutes for a million dollars and
13:30he said watch me and he did it that kind
13:32of attitude impresses me and helped me
13:35think really hard and heavy about what
13:38we would do at CAA it's 45 years later
13:41it's still working so something worked
13:43now could we have backed off and been
13:46softer and gentler probably a bit all
13:50the way I don't think so not in the
13:53can you walk us through what that looked
13:55like how it would play out on a daily
13:56level as you were actually making those
13:58deals take a movie that you put together
14:01let's just take one Jurassic Park
14:03michael crichton said I've got this idea
14:05about something that I've always loved
14:08it's paleontology it's dinosaurs but not
14:11in a prehistoric here in a contemporary
14:13setting and it's a amusement park or on
14:16a mark no movie stars and I said my god
14:20everybody loves dinosaurs let's try to
14:22write this we writes it he gives it to
14:24me I can't put it down it's a
14:27we just said there's only one director
14:28that can do this we give it to Steven
14:30Spielberg he calls the next morning at
14:346:00 a.m. and says I'm doing this after
14:36reading it that's unheard of for a
14:38director of that stature to commit in 12
14:42hours at 6 o'clock at night and calls at
14:486:00 I'm in Cathy Kennedy's the Bruce or
14:52she does a budget you've got a writer
14:54you don't need movie stars the star is
14:57the dinosaur and you're sitting there
14:59and no one has this except us you talk
15:03to Spielberg you talk to Crichton who
15:05would you like to finance and distribute
15:07it because frankly it doesn't really
15:09matter because it matters who's gonna
15:11write it and direct it and we have that
15:13so they decide we should go to Universal
15:15for an opening salvo you know you call
15:19the president of the company and say I
15:20got good news and bad news the good news
15:22is we've got Cathy Kennedy and Steven
15:25Spielberg and Michael Crichton you know
15:27with a detailed book that's gonna be a
15:29best-seller about dinosaurs and we've
15:31got a screenplay and it's
15:32gonna cost this much money so what's the
15:35bad news well we own it and you don't
15:37take the six to eight other studios that
15:39don't get that phone call they're not
15:42happy take the thirty directors or forty
15:44directors that didn't get it they're not
15:46happy takes a couple hundred
15:48screenwriters that didn't get a shot at
15:50the book they're not happy nobody's
15:53happy it reminds me actually when I
15:54first started as an editor and I was
15:56starting to say no to projects there's a
15:58lot of relationship stuff that goes sour
16:00there too and one of my colleagues said
16:03to me you're not doing your job right if
16:05people don't not like you look this is
16:11tough to save it you know I wasn't out
16:13to win a popularity contest this was not
16:15high school I started at the age of 27
16:18in a business that had been around for
16:2075 80 years kind of like playing hockey
16:23and skating down the ice and next thing
16:25you know someone's stick is tripping you
16:27up and you're falling on your face on
16:29the ice this was a tough game let's talk
16:32a little bit about that culture that you
16:34built that both of you built going from
16:36start-up to amateur firm did those
16:39fundamental principles or those
16:41pointillist dots did they shifted the
16:43colors start shifting did things change
16:45it's a living organism it moves on a
16:48daily basis you have these knobs and
16:50it's endless the number of knobs there's
16:53a knob for everybody in the business
16:55there's a knob for every deal there's a
16:58knob for every principle there's a knob
17:00for every service how do you stay the
17:03observing part when it's such a fluid
17:05living organism and there's so many
17:06dials you sit with those knobs I
17:09remember when we were at loud cloud when
17:11there are 400 plus employees and they
17:14had to take those knobs because the
17:16business model was changing and then
17:19sitting there at those knobs 24/7 and
17:22sometimes you over dial them sometimes
17:24you under dial them yeah and you never
17:26get them entirely right so many people
17:29like management consultants or even CEOs
17:33will talk about culture as though it's
17:35something they said they won and that
17:37was it yeah and that's never it it's
17:40changing every day and you have to pay
17:42attention to as Michael said to Justin
17:44back and that you're really talking
17:46about how are people behaving when
17:49they return their calls how do they
17:51treat their clients all these kinds of
17:53things emanate from the culture of the
17:56organization you have to observe the
17:59behaviors you've got to put in
18:01mechanisms you've got to turn things
18:02this way or that way and you know some
18:04things don't work anymore some things
18:06you were wrong about and so yeah it's an
18:10a perfect culture is a culture in
18:12constant flux and growth constant flux
18:15and growth and the culture supports the
18:18strategy so like you can't come in from
18:20the outside and know what the culture of
18:23somebody else's company should be
18:24because you don't know which direction
18:26they're taking it so like an easy
18:29example is like Amazon's got this
18:31culture of frugality because it's so
18:33important to them to be the low cost
18:35provider good cultural element for
18:37Amazon you can't put that in Apple
18:39they're like high design Steve Jobs got
18:41fired because he made the product too
18:43expensive but that's who they are
18:45that's their strategy their culture has
18:47got to support their strategy that's
18:48what I have a five billion dollar campus
18:50JP says he'll never build a five billion
18:52dollar campus because he doesn't care
18:54about what the doorknob looks like it's
18:56why some businesses are fantastic and
18:59are run really in a phenomenal way and
19:03others aren't and the fish stinks from
19:05the head you know if the person who's
19:08operating the business and helping
19:10create the culture and bringing
19:13everybody together is on it 24/7 and I
19:16mean every day that never goes away out
19:19of your head I used to walk around and
19:22do the rounds like doctors at a hospital
19:24used to go in the late morning and in
19:26the late afternoon just to show my face
19:28to see if I saw someone knotted up in
19:32their office or to just get a sense of
19:34how people were feeling I did it from
19:37the time we started where we had five
19:39people to the time when I left when we
19:41had 700 people a thermometer read and
19:43how do you get the read you get it by
19:46frame of reference you see the people
19:48enough on a daily basis and you get a
19:51sense if there's somebody's got a
19:55absolutely not it's time consumptive and
19:58to be human is to err and to be human
20:01instead of a problem
20:02everyone had problems and as someone
20:06who's like the gatherer of the culture
20:08you're not allowed to have a problem you
20:10have to solve everybody else's problem
20:13so it's not something you can do by
20:15yourself by the way I want to be very
20:17clear that I did not do this by myself I
20:20had a partner who was phenomenal at
20:23rounding this out rom Meyer we would
20:25tell each other problems with
20:28individuals and then one of us would
20:30shore it up and then the other one would
20:32go in and take the temperature to see if
20:34a was shored up I used to wonder every
20:37day when I went home you know where did
20:41I make a mistake today you know who did
20:43I tell some bad advice to which
20:46executive in the company that I let down
20:49you know and then when you get home say
20:51to say anything about your own kids that
20:53is the one thing that is so dangerous
20:56when you're CEO you have to be in this
20:58mindset that you're making decisions
21:00you're hard-nosed you have high
21:03expectations of everybody your standard
21:05has to be very high or it'll slip for
21:08everyone you take that attitude home
21:10it's not good that's not the way you
21:13yeah and it's a real challenge you
21:15talked about trying to agent your
21:16children for a while I would come home
21:18and sometimes not flip gears sometimes I
21:22come home and I didn't downshift and I'm
21:24talking to my kids like their clients
21:26believe me regrettable but unfortunately
21:30well you even use the word agent inge as
21:34a negative the first time you use it it
21:36really surprised me you were talking
21:37about your grandmother right Ruta Lee
21:39agent Inge your father yeah what do you
21:41mean by that it's a bad connotation
21:43agent is you know it's manipulating it's
21:45pushing its maneuvering it's trying to
21:49force your will on someone that's agent
21:51and it's a tough word and it's a tough
21:53mechanism the dark side that is the
21:55Darth Vader side of the business by the
21:58way it's not just agents that do that
22:00producers do it you know some directors
22:03that you have a thing where some people
22:05call directors light-handed or heavy
22:07or that they work by example or they
22:10work in different ways well they agent
22:13to you know everyone has an act that
22:16they use and agent is part of
22:18everybody's life in the entertainment
22:19business so your career has spanned an
22:22incredible evolution of the
22:24entertainment business over the last
22:26several decades what's your sense of
22:28what the entertainment and media
22:29landscape looks like now and where it
22:31might be going the entertainment
22:33business to me is parts of it or wildly
22:36exciting and parts that are incredibly
22:38disappointing it's hard to not be
22:40excited about the disintermediation of
22:43streaming it's hard to be excited about
22:46the disintermediation it was streaming
22:48when it's taking the entire culture of
22:51hundred years of history and turning it
22:53on its ear we had a business where with
22:56these barriers to entry that had some
22:59negative connotation and some positive
23:00connotation people paid to go see people
23:04do big projects today people go to
23:08streaming services and their viewing
23:11patterns are antithetical to the history
23:15so for 50 years in this country people
23:19sat around a radio or a TV set four set
23:22times when things were on right so on
23:25Thursday nights when Seinfeld was on and
23:27something culturally happened on
23:30Seinfeld that was significant the water
23:32cooler the water cooler effect everybody
23:34talked about it there is no day and date
23:36except for sports people talk about
23:39things on social media as they see them
23:42but everything's disjointed so how do
23:44you think that will change if you had to
23:45look forward five years the power
23:47equation you know that you guys really
23:49changed with your model when I look at
23:52my old business I am happy for the
23:55progress that's being made I'm sad that
23:58the traditions of the business have
24:02dissipated to this point the idea of
24:05building a movie star now is not
24:06possible what do you mean by that
24:08the idea of finding a 19 year old kid
24:11named Tom Cruise and building him brick
24:14by brick with his own talent and putting
24:17him with great directors and letting
24:21and grow it's hard to do right now
24:24because there's so few movies being made
24:26yes people go to see movies but a lot of
24:29them are event movies they're sequel
24:32sequels remakes you don't get that risky
24:37business and then Top Gun and then all
24:40of a sudden you throw in going on the
24:42fourth of July which is a great actors
24:45piece that way of building a career
24:48doesn't exist anymore it's very hard to
24:50do you know it's interesting because
24:52music is following a similar curve where
24:55yeah it's it's much harder to build a
24:58great artist than it used to be you know
25:01with a series of albums that everybody
25:03knows that's becoming a more rare thing
25:05to nurture a whole career plus there's
25:08so much here today going tomorrow yeah
25:10bad is really tough extremely difficult
25:14so what do you think will take its place
25:16I have no idea I really don't it's we're
25:20in the middle of the trough right now
25:23we're not at the beginning we're not at
25:25the end we're dead center in the middle
25:27we've got a big shoe to drop when Disney
25:30and Fox complete their merger and they
25:32start that streaming service what's
25:34gonna happen whether Hulu is gonna be
25:36Amazon seems very committed they're not
25:40going to be left behind you've got the
25:42he methd is that our well financed
25:46getting into content and that's without
25:49Microsoft and Facebook and Google yeah
25:52it's a great time to be a writer oh my
25:54god it's a great time to be a writer
25:56it's great time to be a creative person
25:58because we went from a dearth of money
26:03to more money than anyone needs and a
26:06new form of distribution so do I think
26:09it ends up good yeah do I think it ends
26:11up great yeah do I know how it gets
26:13there I don't know a clue let's talk a
26:15little bit about negotiation because
26:16that's obviously such a big thread
26:18through both industries you talk about
26:20incredibly complex negotiations from you
26:23know signing Sean Connery - I am Pei
26:25coming to design your buildings - the
26:28MCA deal you talk about some of the key
26:30principles kind of in a little offhand
26:33way one of them was always plot out the
26:35tired end point there was another moment
26:37in the book where you talked about the
26:38importance of reading body language
26:40during negotiations I'd love to know
26:42what some more of those core principles
26:43are for you and how to negotiate I
26:46didn't want to put in a bunch of
26:47principles in a row like make a list
26:49like here's how you negotiate and the
26:52reason is I believe that every single
26:56deal that one approaches is like an art
27:00form it's not a science and everything
27:02has to be plotted out in its own
27:05vernacular so selling universal to
27:09Matsushita Electric or selling Columbia
27:13Pictures to Sony or CBS records to Sony
27:16or MGM you knows bad debt or signing
27:21Sean Connery has come off three bad
27:23pictures or negotiating a new kind of
27:27deal for Jurassic Park where no money
27:29changes and ends and it's all about
27:31ownership every single situation is
27:34different and necessitates its own
27:37architecture it's its own universe
27:39everything is different saying that you
27:42have to know where you want to end up
27:44when you go in is the same for
27:46everything but that's not the art of
27:49putting the deal together they're two
27:51separate things they're separate things
27:53of course one wants to know where they
27:56want to come out I always liked to have
27:59my end result in my mind as I was
28:03working toward it because to me I'm
28:05actually building a house when I
28:09negotiate and I start with a foundation
28:11that foundations usually the idea or the
28:15material that I'm negotiating on
28:17whatever it is whether it's a company a
28:18screenplay a movie a television show a
28:21book a record it didn't matter what it
28:23was there's a foundation and then we try
28:26to build a framework around it and then
28:29putting the roof on is getting the right
28:30deal negotiating is not a road act which
28:35is something that I I learned early on
28:37from man named Howard West who was one
28:41of my bosses at an early age I was 22
28:44years old and I watched
28:46negotiate writers deals and I used to
28:48ask him how did you decide what our
28:51writers materials worth the hundred
28:54dollars or a thousand or ten thousand
28:56there's no rate card for it and he
28:59explained to me this concept of how it's
29:03kind of a fluid and loose moving idea
29:08around it that struck me well we're all
29:10agreeing on value all the time right a
29:12value is always like a femoral shifting
29:15thing that we just agree on except when
29:18you sit in a room and the other side
29:19vehemently disagrees with you and then
29:22you gotta bridge the gap it's such an
29:24important point than that we can improve
29:27in the way we think about deals and how
29:29we train people on these kinds of things
29:30but it's dynamic you know you walk in
29:34you're dealing with a very very complex
29:37person or entity on the other side they
29:39have a history they have needs they have
29:42things they want they have things they
29:44don't care about they have motivation
29:47they want to win and they want to win
29:49they want to win in the deal and you
29:50have to understand all those things and
29:54then plan a strategy but as soon as you
29:56get into a formula or a set of
29:57principles or something you can just run
30:00then you're not listening and that's
30:02death and a deal and a lot of it is
30:04emotional like you know do you have the
30:07right mentality and one of my favorite
30:10memories of being CEO is the worst
30:13memory and the best memory we were
30:15working on the deal with EDS and we had
30:17EDS and IBM both in the hunt and you
30:22know we really needed the deal to finish
30:24at a certain time but there was no
30:26reason to have it finish at that time
30:27sorry can we say the deals gonna end
30:31here even if it may not end here and
30:33like how do we think about that that
30:35question just made him stop and he said
30:37look I believe in artificial deadlines
30:41I believe in playing one against the
30:43other and I believe that you have to do
30:46anything and everything possible short
30:48of immoral or illegal to get the damn
30:51deal done and I was like okay I've just
30:54been thinking you have to believe you
30:57can figure it out you have to convince
31:00convinced the other side I was thinking
31:02I was on my heels and like you have to
31:03be on your toes to win a deal but there
31:06was no he could I couldn't ask him for
31:08like what's the recipe you know click
31:10this and you'll have a sixty four
31:13million dollars plus a twenty million
31:14dollar contract no recipe but kind of a
31:18constitution or like the walls of a
31:20house I'm hearing still like kind of
31:23core concepts of how you approach it
31:25like visualize what you want at the end
31:27be aggressive everything is its own
31:30language is kind of its own principle
31:31all the houses are different that was
31:35that house you know he gave me the rules
31:37for that house yeah that room may and
31:40would not have applied about ninety nine
31:42other deals you joke in your book about
31:45going from Valley to Valley what are
31:47some of the differences between the two
31:49cultures and some of the advice you
31:51learned in your career that you now find
31:53yourself sharing with tech entrepreneurs
31:54I will say the one common denominator is
31:58everyone is particularly interested in
32:01mistakes because they don't want to make
32:03them and we don't see that down in LA no
32:07one wants to know anything about
32:09mistakes they want to forget them and
32:10know how and sweep them under the rug
32:12you don't see that in New York either
32:13one of the founders up here say so when
32:16you did this what would have happened if
32:20you did that why did you do it that way
32:22in retrospect it doesn't look like you
32:24did it the right way and they're right
32:27and they're really really they want to
32:30know and look they're also interested in
32:32some of the things that were successful
32:34they're interested in the cultural mark
32:36always talks about software eating the
32:38world our culture ate the entertainment
32:40business it just did and so did the
32:42entries in Horowitz culture so it's
32:44interesting when something works a
32:47second time because you say to yourself
32:49my god it works and it worked in a
32:52different silo a different vocation so
32:55the advice is usually specific to the
32:57business the entrepreneurs up here are
33:00really interested in the good to bad and
33:03the ugly and that's very different than
33:05other places that I travel in pulling up
33:07the carpet they want to know everything
33:09and they're not afraid to ask thank you
33:11both so much for joining us on the age
![How To Succeed As A NEW & YOUNG Realtor [Deals Every Month + Luxury Listings]](/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FrtrRghgTayc%2Fhqdefault.jpg&w=3840&q=75)
