00:00hi I'm Hannah and welcome to the a 16z
00:02podcast in this episode recorded as part
00:04of our Washington DC podcast Roadshow we
00:07talked with Heather Podesta CEO of
00:09invariant and Michael Beckerman
00:11president of the internet Association
00:13about all things lobbying tech lobbying
00:16in particular what lobbying really is
00:18what's different about it now how it's
00:21changed and where it's going so the the
00:24term lobbyists is over a hundred years
00:26old and it stems from the lobby of the
00:30Willard here in Washington DC and it was
00:33when legislators were here part time the
00:37the lobbyists would sit in the lobby and
00:40and catch members on the fly as they
00:43were going take a stand a proxy stand
00:46and grab somebody with a hook exactly
00:49exactly and so people have this image of
00:53what a lobbyist looks like it's gonna be
00:56a white male sorry Michael going to be
01:00someone sort of heavy overweight that's
01:02not Michael with the cigar and someone
01:09who plays a lot of golf and just goes to
01:14meetings and is can I just be candid is
01:17driven by money right like there is this
01:19they're usually pictures of dollar bills
01:22and dollar bills falling out of pantsuit
01:25pockets and and the lie so that's the
01:27image so what is the reality the reality
01:30is very different I think there are
01:32still people in Washington that sort of
01:35fit that stereotype but they're not
01:38effective that's interesting that you
01:40say they're not effective it's no longer
01:42enough to know the chairman of the
01:44Appropriations Committee to get
01:46something done and you actually have to
01:49have the facts on your side you know
01:53twenty years ago thirty years ago there
01:56wasn't this level of transparency now
01:59every aspect of legislation is really
02:03being watched by everyone and
02:06politicians are absolutely accountable
02:09to their constituents I think some of
02:12the credit belongs to
02:13internet because all its come down to
02:15transparency right back in the day when
02:17you only got news from a newspaper or
02:19maybe what you saw TV the backroom deals
02:21and things like that were everywhere it
02:23was describing the good old the good old
02:25boys network where you know smoke-filled
02:27rooms with no transparency no reporter
02:30is none of this this public stuff it's
02:32changed because more people are engaging
02:33and there's a lot more transparency and
02:35so when somebody votes on something and
02:37it's because they had a personal
02:38relationship with somebody or they got a
02:40big donation that becomes public and so
02:42you do need to have the rationale for
02:43why you're doing something and not just
02:45doing it as a personal favor or due to a
02:47campaign donation or somebody that you
02:49went to high school with and people
02:51engaging online that's really important
02:53really all of us are lobbyists whenever
02:55we engage with an elected official if
02:58you wrote a letter ever to your
02:59congressperson or if you went into a
03:02town hall with your talk to your mayor
03:04about zoning thing if you engage with
03:07your elected officials at any level as a
03:09constituent you're lobbying what that
03:11means is in my opinion is you're making
03:13sure your voice is heard you're trying
03:14to influence that process so advocating
03:16for something or for yourself absolutely
03:18and it is enshrined in the First
03:21Amendment the ability to petition our
03:24government every part of our lives is
03:29represented by different lobbyists so
03:32where you went to school your water
03:36department the clothing manufacturers
03:39every aspect of all of our lives has
03:43someone in Washington advocating on
03:46behalf of their part of the economy even
03:50churches have lobbyists huh that's
03:53really interesting I didn't realize that
03:54and it's - so it's it's - when when they
03:59have specific goals they want to achieve
04:00or just sort of like a general awareness
04:03what about what's the range it's not
04:05great if the first time you're engaging
04:07with your elected officials is when you
04:08have a problem and so some of the
04:10lobbying or advocating is just setting a
04:12landscape a perfect example is where you
04:14have a new technology if you never
04:16educate your elected officials about
04:18what you're doing it may come a time
04:20where they're saying what is this
04:22podcast thing yeah I need to really get
04:23the government of all podcasts yeah so
04:25is that one way in which tech lobbying
04:27is really different from other
04:28industries where it is kind of more
04:30familiar you know we know we have a
04:32sense of what the basic asks you tend to
04:34be one of the great things about tech
04:36lobbying is how diverse it is especially
04:39with new technologies members of
04:42Congress are really keen to be part of
04:47the next cool hip thing so if you are
04:50that shiny silver object and they want
04:55to be associated with you with it
04:58they're keen to learn more an attention
05:01advantage exactly interesting so if
05:04lobbying is everything from writing to
05:05your mayor to complain about how your
05:08garbage is picked up to you know could
05:09see introducing educating about new
05:11technologies and how is it different
05:13from other forms of influence the
05:15government can be impacted with
05:18litigation or bad press or good press so
05:21I guess it can be three buckets right
05:23you're trying to stop something from
05:24happening you're trying to make
05:25something happen or you're trying to
05:27educate so that whenever you get to the
05:29point where you're trying to stop
05:30something or mace in the general
05:31education is is a really important
05:33particularly you know technology is a
05:35perfect area to think about because for
05:37a lot of policy makers it's new you want
05:39them to have your point of view and you
05:40want them to really understand what
05:42they're doing the term lobbying has a
05:43very set definition now and so
05:45technically I'm not a lobbyist I run an
05:47organization we do have lobbyists that
05:49work for the organization but we also
05:50have lawyers that deal with things that
05:52happen in the courts which does have an
05:53impact on policy we have a
05:55communications team that deals with what
05:57happens in the media and all of that is
05:58tied in together but lobbying is a very
06:00specific thing that's dealing with you
06:02know talking to a specific elected
06:04official about a topic what are some of
06:06the most effective ways of doing that
06:08having the facts on your side and it is
06:11continual engagement so it isn't enough
06:14to come in to Washington once where your
06:18product your widget your service and
06:21sort of expect all of Washington to
06:24cater to you because you have created
06:26the best most awesome thing ever
06:29it really is understanding what members
06:34of Congress are thinking about but also
06:36what the agencies are thinking about and
06:40first date there's flirting people are
06:43excited and then if you don't have a
06:46follow up out of sight out of mind I
06:49like to say that DC is a fact free zone
06:53and relying on a congressional office or
06:56an agency to figure out how your
06:59business works by you know jumping onto
07:03the internet and you know doing a new
07:06search isn't enough yeah because if you
07:09are a new company if you are new
07:12technology you are probably disrupting
07:16an incumbent an incumbent that is
07:18powerful and well situated in Washington
07:21and an incumbent that has long-standing
07:26relationships and jobs in a lot of
07:30different districts can you elaborate a
07:32little bit on what you mean by having
07:34the facts on your side because I feel
07:36like everybody thinks the facts are on
07:38their side you know they all come to
07:40Washington with all earnestness part of
07:43it is explaining issues to people in
07:49terms of not what you're promising but
07:54what you're actually delivering but
07:56coming in with concrete data in terms of
08:00there are 206 people employed in your
08:05district right and they're very
08:07concerned about your position on patents
08:11you have to make it real and you have to
08:13explain why that position this member of
08:17Congress might have in patents works
08:20against those jobs so clarifying
08:23mistakes so you have to start there and
08:25say we're new we don't have the
08:26relationships with you but let me
08:27explain how we're helping your
08:29constituents we're helping the community
08:30we're creating value we're paying jobs
08:32and quantify it what about when there
08:34aren't so when you're sort of creating a
08:36new I mean market creation the sort of a
08:40product that's coming in and that where
08:41you're not so much disrupting and
08:42incumbent but something very new that
08:44people don't even really understand
08:45people can be suspicious and generally
08:49do not like surprises especially anytime
08:54touching people 18 in younger that
08:59government is going to sort of step in
09:02and make sure that we are protecting
09:05young adults protecting children and the
09:08like and so you can you know with a lot
09:12of these newer products you can
09:15absolutely anticipate how Washington
09:18will react it will generally be
09:20paternalistic it will work from a
09:23position this is what we've done in the
09:27past and are you doing a bad thing or
09:31are you doing a good thing and if people
09:33aren't telling them telling these
09:35legislators we're doing a good thing
09:38they're likely to get a letter that's
09:42usually how this starts a letter saying
09:44nobody likes getting a letter no there
09:49is no check in these letters
09:50it isn't like Grandma sending you your
09:53Christmas money it is what are you doing
09:55why are you doing it this way help us to
09:58understand why you've structured it this
10:01way and very quickly gets into business
10:05questions often in a very accusatory
10:09manner sort of de facto negative stance
10:12I mean you have legislators and you have
10:14regulators and they're called that
10:16because they like to legislate and
10:18regulate that's like the defaults that's
10:19a default setting and so you know
10:21whatever you're doing that's what
10:23they're gonna look to do legislate
10:25something it or regulate something and
10:26all of these new regulations and
10:28legislations like tend to have these
10:29ripple effects right that many of them
10:31unforeseen that we can say how do you
10:33get a sense of those the good thing and
10:35the bad thing is that Washington doesn't
10:38move quickly it only moves quickly in a
10:40time of crisis and that you can sort of
10:44count on and so there are multiple
10:47opportunities to provide input into
10:51regulations into legislation and part of
10:56our job is to see around corners so to
11:00anticipate before a bill is even dropped
11:03what the issues are and to begin the
11:07education so that as a bill starts to
11:12wind its way through Congress that it
11:16ends up in the the right place it is
11:18true it's good and bad that Congress
11:20does move slow but there are other
11:22things that happen the process such as
11:23executive orders or things that happen
11:25at regulatory agencies such as the FCC
11:28or the FTC or SEC are that can sometimes
11:31move quicker or apply rules from things
11:34that they already have the authority to
11:35do on new technologies is that one of
11:37the things that intact lobbying in
11:39particular you really struggle with
11:40because it sounds like the pace is so
11:41different right for these companies
11:43which are all some of the larger
11:45problems in the system need an act of
11:47Congress I mean the president assigned
11:48something new into law and that's a slow
11:50process and you have people that have
11:52been able to slow down the process when
11:55you know yeah good thing I mean you're
11:56trying to be on offense and get a new
11:58reform and acted and sign into law it's
12:01frustrating versus written the mantra
12:03with startups is move quickly break
12:07Congress doesn't work that way the most
12:10important thing to understand is
12:12Congress is not going to be is not going
12:15to change for you how are you gonna work
12:18through it and what's your plan for some
12:21companies it's simply you know what I'm
12:25gonna do my thing and I don't need
12:28Washington that doesn't last very long
12:30if you know the rules of the road you're
12:34a much better driver and you can get
12:36from point A to point B faster every
12:39company can be their own advocate
12:41everyone has a member of Congress and
12:44two senators and has the ability to pick
12:47up the phone and talk to those offices
12:51or come and visit those offices and
12:54begin the conversation begin to
12:58understand where their member of
13:00Congress might be on these issues
13:03oftentimes people will start that
13:07conversation but realize wow this is
13:10more than one phone call and I need I
13:12need to focus on building the best
13:14possible product and so how do I do both
13:19the marketplace gets divided up in
13:22Washington every single day people think
13:26it gets divided up in TechCrunch and
13:29code and sort of the marketplace of the
13:31the broader broader ether but it the
13:36marketplace also gets divided up when a
13:39company receipts that investigatory
13:42letter and what does that say if you are
13:45a start-up in a heavily regulated space
13:48if you are a start-up in health care if
13:51you have a Washington lobbyist and know
13:55exactly what's happening in the agencies
13:58as well as what's happening on the hill
14:00that shows a certain sophistication and
14:04a certain knowledge and investors like
14:08to see that you know your regulator
14:11you're signaling that you're already
14:12right thinking about the adult table
14:15yeah yeah there's there's an expression
14:17in Washington that if you're not on at
14:21the table you're on the menu it's much
14:25better to earn that seat at the table
14:27early on yeah that is a really really
14:30important point both for for Washington
14:33but even in the press and media if
14:35you're not telling your own story
14:36someone else is telling your story I
14:38mean the same same thing if you're not
14:40sitting at the table someone else is
14:41gonna be eating you for lunch is
14:43lobbying on a state and local level
14:44different from federal in any tangible
14:47way or is it always kind of the same I
14:49think at all I mean I think it all goes
14:50down to explaining why you matter as a
14:53constituent all politics are local right
14:56right and they care the most about what
14:57their constituents care about and what
14:58matters to the area that they represent
15:00be it you know a small town as a mayor
15:03or an entire state as a senator or the
15:05entire country is the president why the
15:06sort of bad rep that lobbying has
15:08because some people feel like well we
15:10shouldn't need to do that right when
15:11Obama was running and when he was
15:15elected one of his planks was sort of
15:20distancing himself from the lobbyists
15:24and made a very big point of not taking
15:28lobbyist money not having lobbyists and
15:32is administration and it was kind of
15:34hard to be sort of deemed a second-class
15:37citizen and so one of the fun things
15:40sort of tongue-in-cheek things I did was
15:43I printed up these brocade Scarlet
15:47Letter owls and I realized they were
15:50actually scarlet that absolutely and
15:53very sort of Hester Prynne lying and I
15:56handed them out during the Democratic
15:58convention I think what I was trying to
16:00say is I understand my place you can
16:05label me but I am still here I'm really
16:08proud to be an advocate and so to have a
16:12little bit of fun with the scarlet
16:13letter was just good laughs seems like
16:18for a while there was a perception
16:19Silicon Valley that you didn't need
16:20right what you've talked about you
16:22didn't need in lobbies we just do our
16:23own thing it does seem now that that's
16:25changing it has technology itself
16:26changed how you do what you do besides
16:28the obvious you know email and social
16:30media is it are you starting to see any
16:32real impact I mean you described such a
16:33face-to-face personality driven yeah
16:35hundred percent I mean it's easier to to
16:38reach people and get people engaged in
16:40that process and I think a great example
16:42of this when I was on Capitol Hill's
16:43during the SOPA PIPA debates of on
16:45piracy the entrenched interests in DC at
16:48the time or the content industry the
16:49Hollywood studios which have been at
16:51this game for a very very long time the
16:53internet industry didn't even have a
16:54trade associate association that happen
16:57was people use the tools of the internet
16:58and there was a groundswell of people
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