00:00so hi everyone welcome to the a 6nz
00:03podcast I'm sonal and I'm here today
00:05with a very special edition of the a6 in
00:07the podcast international we have two
00:10special guests one of our guests is
00:12nothing name Dinesh fir who runs a web
00:15based startup in Iran called taxi fun
00:17and our other guest is Christopher
00:19Schroeder who wrote a really interesting
00:21book last year called startup rising and
00:23he can describe more about his
00:25background and she'll describe more
00:26about her background as they talk to
00:28each other about what it's like to do
00:30startups internationally in particularly
00:33you know the book startup rising is a
00:35departure for me because I have been an
00:37internet entrepreneur I've run three
00:38companies I'm a venture capitalist now
00:40mostly American based but I've been
00:42spending a fair amount of time in
00:43emerging growth markets and
00:44fundamentally seeing how ubiquitous
00:46access to technology is just changing
00:48societies everywhere bottom up and start
00:51uprising is about the Arab world of all
00:53things and I can tell you most Americans
00:54watching CNN or on Vox or whatever
00:57they're using thing do not see a hopeful
01:00version of Middle East and I think that
01:02most Americans think of Iran they still
01:04think Argo and the fact is in many
01:06respects what ISIL ain't seen in Iran
01:08has just been an amazing group of
01:11talented young people without standing
01:13engineering capability and outstanding
01:16access to technology we just never hear
01:18about it we never see it at all though
01:21the people that are mainly outside of
01:23Iran they really have this feeling okay
01:25because of all these sanctions being
01:28pushed like Iranian generation they're
01:32really far behind of what's going on in
01:34the world but the reality is different
01:37and the young generations are like
01:39constantly looking at the West they're
01:41constantly looking at what's happening
01:43in America in Europe they're trying to
01:45adapt themselves I'm not an immigrant
01:47espera I'm the founder of taffy fun.com
01:50which is the biggest and the most
01:52popular Groupon website Avira
01:54I had experience like working in the IT
01:58and development teams as a team leader
01:59in London in Germany and
02:01I decided to move back to Iran around
02:03four years ago before South Cookman I
02:06did have another startup that was an
02:07online grocery shopping and then that
02:10one fed and the reason the main reason
02:12was bad like the delivery and logistic
02:15issues so by that time I promised to
02:17myself I'm not going to get into another
02:19business model that involves large
02:20estates because in Iran there that just
02:23takes is not still these days it's not
02:25developed as it should be
02:27we start as two people and now we are
02:30basically having more than 1 million
02:33customers and if you're operating the
02:35seven cities and we have grown to 60
02:37people I love the story of how you
02:39started this company could you tell a
02:41little bit just your perspective because
02:43I'd say half the entrepreneurs I met
02:45were women I mean and certainly half of
02:47the engineering graduate Jewish every
02:49year or women so basically my story is
02:52slightly goes back to my childhood
02:54because beaver just like my dad just had
02:56two daughters and he never had a son so
02:58he was always expecting us I mean
03:00especially me to act as their older son
03:03my dad was just say okay look you have
03:04to go vote for yourself and that was the
03:07starting point that I started working
03:09for different companies like I remember
03:11the first day I went to work because the
03:13manager was just shouting at somebody
03:14else in the office I started she buried
03:16I came back and I started crying it's
03:18just like no this is not my thing I'm
03:19not gonna go back to work and then I
03:22moved to London and then like started as
03:25a technical team leader later on in
03:27Germany and then when I moved back I was
03:3026 years old there was no like word like
03:33called startup or anything still lots of
03:36them things like we are like 60 over 60
03:39people I mean people sitting in our
03:41office they think like I'm doing the
03:43whole word from our home because they
03:44think like it's a website you know or
03:46then the static website is exactly like
03:48another ecommerce website so I started
03:51like approaching different merchants etc
03:54to try to make a deal and I remember
03:57like I was put up like I got this
04:01the massive government took place in
04:03here and then I go in and then I
04:06explained my idea and then the garbage
04:08is so excited and interested
04:10the only question that he asked was just
04:12like where's your manager just don't
04:14waste my time go and come back with your
04:16manager you know we just like I had a
04:18manager I just came home and I was just
04:20like dad I have no idea what this guy
04:21was talking and it was just say had a
04:23new bi you know this is Iran you can't
04:25you know it's a just doesn't work like a
04:27gravy Europe so how they properly was
04:31just like I started going to the
04:33meetings with my dad and then I was
04:35introducing him it was a it was a
04:37manager of a beet at one of the biggest
04:39power plants around Tara so he was
04:41taking time off just coming with me just
04:43pretending that he's the manager of the
04:45company and so he was just so oh you
04:48have you started this company and there
04:50we go she's gonna explain it so the rest
04:52of the meeting was in my hand and that
04:53was actually the suckss point and he
04:55started making proper tears because
04:57otherwise nobody was missing his job was
05:01to literally appear in the meeting he
05:02didn't spend time talking the media
05:12because of issues like I put his name as
05:16the CEO of the companies because they
05:18were checking the register of the
05:19company and then they didn't want to see
05:21him or I'm just sitting there so my dad
05:23severe like official CEO of the company
05:26although he's never present in the
05:28company anymore now when I talk about it
05:30just sounds funny and craziest volume I
05:32remember like that because it was
05:36I mean constantly yeah I had to change
05:38all my mentality to price being a poor
05:40man especially being young it's amazing
05:43to me that what you've accomplished and
05:45obviously it's still relatively early
05:46days nothing but tone can you just tell
05:49me how much you think the ecosystem has
05:50evolved and I came back to even nobody
05:53even knew the start of work I mean in
05:55the IT section especially I mean there
05:58is just like they didn't have a clue
06:00nobody had a clue and I think the whole
06:02changes just start around
06:04year and a half two years ago that then
06:06these demons started fearing like
06:08startup the event and then Dec
06:10University started thinking of an
06:12entrepreneurship especially an idea an
06:14e-commerce section the number of like
06:16universities that have added
06:18entrepreneurship field as a as I feel at
06:21the university is just incredible now
06:23pretty much all the universities have
06:24that but by those years I mean just one
06:26of the university to have the
06:28Entrepreneurship well for studying for
06:30people and I think like through the last
06:33a year and a half or two years all these
06:36events like started giving people the
06:38idea like where the startup men are Tim
06:41missing lots of the points which is not
06:44completing the ecosystem including like
06:46proper investment including proper
06:48mentorship let's to try this one of the
06:50things are seeing there I'm hoping in
06:53the next couple of years we can really
06:55go through their whole thing and get it
06:57properly done the things that surprised
07:00me is that there were over 31 government
07:03backed incubators and accelerators with
07:06some pretty interesting technology and I
07:08know one of the questions I always have
07:10and other people from the United States
07:12is going to have is about government and
07:15and rule of law and how easy is it for
07:17companies to actually succeed can you
07:20talk a little bit about that and how
07:21that's changing yeah woman to be honest
07:24one of the interesting points that
07:26everybody asks me let me just say have
07:27you ever had any issues from government
07:29at what server and I'm really so happy
07:33that basically through the last couple
07:35of years we didn't have the smallest
07:37issue from those guys they have always
07:39been maybe not fully understanding that
07:42whole ecosystem in start-up needs which
07:44they are starting to understand um
07:46nothing it was easy but we didn't have
07:49any barrier or any problem you know
07:51facing from the government side to start
07:53the company I was incredibly impressed a
07:58in talking to actually an ICT
08:00information communication technology
08:02minister that one tremendous investment
08:06is being put in the infrastructure so
08:08last year he told me four billion
08:10dollars was spent in tech infrastructure
08:12they're gonna spend twenty five billion
08:14over the next two to three years a year
08:17ago when I was there the
08:18barely any 3G 4G yeah you know people
08:21have access to smart devices in Wi-Fi
08:24this year it sounds like they're 20
08:26million subscribers to 3G 4G he talked
08:29about health as a huge initiative he
08:32talked about ending plastic going from
08:35debit cards to mobile payments I mean
08:38I think people in America hear about at
08:42was he just telling me what I want to
08:43hear or you really seen this no that's
08:46absolutely true I mean the fact that has
08:48happened like I mean they have lunch 3G
08:50are not one of the operators and three
08:534G and LTE on the other operator and so
08:56now pretty much all the mobile phones in
08:58Europe and can have the possibility to
09:01access 3GS super 8 superchips you pay
09:04three dollars a month and you have a
09:05pretty good access to 3G which I'm
09:08always using you know it's incredible I
09:11mean my my speed on my mobile phone is
09:13pretty much the same when I'm in Germany
09:14like my mobile phone I know having 3G
09:17has this connectivity had a huge impact
09:19on your business in the last year
09:20initially when we started our own
09:22company we had this online payment like
09:25ATM payment and cash on delivery as our
09:28payment method basically quite delighted
09:32to say that like last year there are
09:34number of cash on delivery orders were
09:36so low that we just cancelled the whole
09:38perimeter so now we don't do any more
09:40cash on delivery it's just online
09:42payment plus like a card payment ATM
09:45payment and it seemed like the number of
09:48years the number of people growing
09:49having access to ADSL that our markets
09:52are growing obviously you see you have
09:54some issues of the trust which we are
09:57hoping that the government is gonna
09:58address them at some point so now that
10:01you know one of the things that I hear
10:02when I come back to America and this is
10:04true by the way from emerging markets
10:05from Southeast Asia to Latin America to
10:07the Arab world to Turkey and now in Iran
10:10people think that startups are like
10:12exceptions that there are a handful of
10:15very smart well-educated young people
10:17who are doing this and it's on the
10:19margins good that people are I just said
10:24oh wow you've made it he was such a sad
10:27just like look hold on a second then my
10:30difference with you it's just like I had
10:32this courage that four years ago I
10:34dropped my super well-paid job in
10:36Germany I moved back and I just gave it
10:38a chance enough I had that long talk
10:40entire university over the failures
10:43sorry in the Fed conference and we just
10:45said come on no I mean today is the day
10:47that you should really you know give me
10:49the chance otherwise you're gonna regret
10:51the rest of your life if I would have
10:54done it so um the main thing I'm getting
10:58from the people in here is still like
11:00they are not because as I said the whole
11:02ecosystem is not completely safe so you
11:05don't know if you're gonna get like
11:07property investment if you quit your job
11:10how it's gonna worry about incubators
11:12accelerators they're just getting into a
11:15place so um as I mentioned I think it is
11:19evolving and the things are getting into
11:21in the right place but people are still
11:23scared and looking at they're just like
11:25oh wow these guys were like kind of
11:27superstar about obviously the reality is
11:29just like we've just been in normal
11:31people just taking a bit more and that's
11:33it you know I've seen this across
11:35emerging markets certainly in the Arab
11:36world but in Iran as well that that
11:39failure is necessary in entrepreneurship
11:41we all know this we all live it every
11:43day it's one of the great competitive
11:45advantages frankly of America in Silicon
11:47Valley that you can you know brush
11:48yourself off and get to the new one
11:50I have a sense noting that failure is
11:52not really as accepted in the culture
11:54maybe I'm wrong and because I've
11:56actually am seeing a changing among the
11:58new generation around the world but can
12:00you just talk about the the cultural
12:03challenges to failure and and is it
12:05changing in the ecosystem in Iran
12:07success is like a process it's not going
12:10to happen over or not so the people with
12:13the burning success if they haven't
12:15experienced any failures but the fact is
12:17like obviously it was not accepted
12:20initially like I remember about that
12:21buzz fan in my first startup I mean my
12:24parents were much more depressed than me
12:27because that's a such a big thing for me
12:29but it wasn't really because I came over
12:32so I think that is definite
12:33and us to really explain to people that
12:36even if they fail they are in the
12:38product to be successful and there's
12:40something that I always asked my
12:41colleagues and all the other company
12:44owners and entrepreneurs that really
12:45make it clear to people that you have
12:47failed as well there's no like you've
12:48been successful sort of the overnight
12:50and there you go and then the others
12:53have already failed success breeds
12:55success like ten years ago who would
12:57have said that Alibaba would be the most
12:59successful tech startup in the world
13:02coming from China and now there are you
13:05know a hundred of them and and I suspect
13:07that that might happen in Iran - no
13:11absolutely what I would have said like
13:16open up like the first day that me so
13:18sometimes we look at my sister I mean
13:20their first office that we started with
13:2240 square meters that I've paid off from
13:24like my savings from Germany and now we
13:27are sitting at the 600 square metre
13:29office like four floors like completely
13:31all like people and then sometimes we
13:33look at the pictures from that time that
13:34we were just like running around we
13:36didn't have a clue about what's going on
13:37so I mean if somebody would have asked
13:39us by that the air would it's just like
13:41said no that's just gonna be a joke it's
13:43we're not gonna get that you know do you
13:45see people from around the world trying
13:48to engage early and Iran startups not
13:50you know there are really like good some
13:52Europeans I visited our office they have
13:54been in Tehran there are some of them
13:56already in Tehran they have offices I
13:58even heard like from a very famous
14:00committee I cannot name one of their top
14:02managers that American was already here
14:04like a weeks ago some of them have
14:07already done some experts have already
14:08done some investment so lots of people
14:12are actually moving back looking at the
14:15market and the other ones that are I
14:17mean they know the opportunity that I've
14:19already start an investment and they're
14:21breaking in the marketing here so I've
14:23heard a lot about the I bridges
14:25gathering which is one of the largest
14:26gatherings of Iranian startups and the
14:29rest of the world obviously it's been
14:30held in Berlin because you can't hosted
14:32in America and the press is given a
14:33great coverage are dying to hear what it
14:36was really like on the ground how was it
14:37this time companies from Iran including
14:40us and two other massive giants like
14:4420-year old software companies Romeo so
14:47the ones from the web section how many
14:49people attended to the gathering
14:50outright you boys plan for 2,000 people
14:53so I'm assuming that you miss around
14:562,500 so I'm gonna die mostly Europeans
14:59or where were the rest of the people
15:01from for the most part like Belgium's
15:04like Germans and I was very interesting
15:07but one designer probably you know that
15:09I mean they were asking me in an
15:10interview like why there are so many
15:12Germans in here like these rocket
15:15Internet's BECU fond was there everybody
15:17was there basically the fact is there
15:19are two groups of people you know and
15:21there are Americans and there are
15:23Europeans you know Americans are
15:24sanctions so they are always running
15:26around they are looking at the companies
15:28they are talking to them it cetera I
15:30mean but the fact is when it comes the
15:32real serious story they're just oops
15:34sorry you know we are Americans we have
15:36to way whatsoever and then Europeans
15:39they're no sanction so they just need to
15:41get a permission I'll tell you one of
15:43the biggest things that I've conveyed
15:44both to Christopher his connection I
15:50think is the one that's the worst
15:51ironically hi Christopher
15:54I think one of the most important things
15:56we have to point out here is that she
15:58gets better Skype from Iran than I'm
16:01getting that's that's sort of a metaphor
16:04for this entire conversation I think so
16:06you know I tell Americans here that you
16:08guys have 65% broadband penetration
16:11which compares favorably to America 72%
16:14or whatever it is like like so many
16:16great emerging markets 120% mobile
16:19mobile access meaning people have more
16:21than one SIM card you know smartphones
16:24everywhere you know iPhones are illegal
16:27and they're over six million iPhones
16:28there I mean we really have trouble
16:30appreciating the meaning of this and and
16:32they think that even if you have
16:34technology you're restricted so can you
16:36explain to me why everyone I meet has
16:38Facebook and Twitter and everybody sees
16:40what everyone else in the world sees how
16:42Facebook advertisement is closed for
16:45Iranians like Google AdWords as well but
16:48the fact that people here are having you
16:50full access to three turrets with
16:52Facebook and Facebook is blocked by the
16:54government as well but we are going
16:57so everybody is connecting through that
17:00guys just like I was just checking my
17:02Twitter before basically the Kolkata
17:04start so you're pretty much all the time
17:06like kind of when I stole these social
17:09media I loved that I met with an
17:12economic minister who publicly said
17:14publicly said on this trip that everyone
17:17uses Twitter and Facebook and we think
17:19shortly this will be very helpful for
17:22businesses to reach consumers going
17:24forward in Iran I mean who would have
17:26thought that absolutely it amazes me how
17:28across the region and in Iran maybe even
17:31more so I find more women entrepreneurs
17:34than I find in Silicon Valley do you
17:36think that this is actually a means B in
17:39this country that there's gonna be a way
17:40that they're gonna sort of bypass old
17:42strictures to really engage you know in
17:45very powerful ways in the future of Iran
17:47I think it's definitely one of the ways
17:49you know I always felt like women like
17:52you but we had to work in a factory but
17:54there be much more difficult for us but
17:56with the idea and e-commerce business it
17:58said this you can you know you can sit
18:01in your office you can like concentrate
18:03to IT where I can it doesn't have like
18:05really that much of an asset that you
18:06would have if you were working at some
18:08other kind of businesses I mean the
18:11diocese feel a bit of a shame because
18:13like Beaman are still like although the
18:16graduation rate is quite high at the
18:19university but they are not the series
18:21like positions are serious
18:23entrepreneurship companies yet but
18:25hopefully this would change as I said
18:27because of the rate of the female
18:29graduates from university I think over a
18:31year when this concept and the whole
18:34startup story really gets into the
18:38ground like the Beaman are really gonna
18:40be a big movers in Iran as they are and
18:43the other field some in excluding IT you
18:45and I are gonna meet mezzanine five
18:48years from now I want you to dream for
18:49me what the Iranian ecosystem is gonna
18:51look like what do you think it's gonna
18:53look like well I mean to be honest I can
18:56already see like we are gonna be had a
18:58super competitive market like that the
19:01whole idea like I remember from Berlin
19:04time when I was living there their
19:05estate cafes that we were like sitting
19:07there and Marissa don't talk about your
19:09idea so loudly they are all under
19:12they're gonna steal your idea and then
19:14the investors were listening it's a
19:16I think definitely we are gonna get to
19:18the same stage in Iran as well I mean
19:20that and that's not probably within five
19:22years I can even sit in three years time
19:24oh I can't thank you enough for that I
19:27mean it was wonderful meeting you in
19:28Tehran and to see you and all your
19:30colleagues doing what you're doing you
19:31make me very hopeful for the future and
19:33the new generation they're so wonderful
19:35to spend time with you okay so thank you
19:37for covering all the stories and
19:39basically taking this crazy market out
19:42there so people can really see you know
19:44what's going on in this like in this
19:46country so that's that's pretty amazing
19:48for me I mean that's the biggest
19:50interesting thing that you know I could
19:52have dreamed about thank you very much
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