00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast i'm michael
00:02copeland youtube star casey neistat
00:05rejects the term viral video which is
00:08strange because he's had more than his
00:10share of internet monsters to say i want
00:13to make a viral movie is like a musician
00:15saying i want to make a hit song it's
00:17just not a good place to start nice that
00:19says so how does nice that start how
00:23does he both attract an audience of
00:24millions and keep them coming back on a
00:27daily basis nice that is joined on this
00:29segment of the pod by Bailey Richardson
00:31one of the early team members at
00:33Instagram with the tools of production
00:35available to everyone how do you create
00:37something that people will stop and pay
00:40attention to nice that does it by
00:42ripping up the snowy streets of New York
00:43on a snowboard towed behind a Jeep but
00:46what about the rest of us
00:47Bailey Richardson starts the
00:49conversation awesome you guys thanks so
00:52much for coming out well I wanted to ask
00:54Casey so we kind of come from a little
00:57bit of two different sides of the aisle
00:59I'm working at Instagram really early on
01:01one of the things that we did was we put
01:04people on suggested users we wrote about
01:06them and if you weren't already famous
01:08if you weren't Kim Kardashian or Justin
01:10Bieber that was sort of the only way for
01:13you to get exposure on the platform at
01:15the beginning that was a very curated
01:18platform and I wanted to ask you I think
01:20YouTube your perspective with especially
01:22with YouTube is that it's it's pretty
01:24egalitarian and that virality is maybe
01:27something that isn't isn't so magic or
01:29isn't so controlled by the platform I
01:31just wanted to ask you you know how do
01:33you define virality today or getting to
01:36the point where you can make content
01:37that goes viral what does that mean I'm
01:42not a huge fan of the word viral this
01:47somebody tweeted this today and the
01:49chance that somebody in here read that
01:51somebody else tweeted this today so I
01:52can't claim this as my own quote but
01:54it's a really good quote to say I want
01:56to make a viral movie is like a musician
01:58sitting down and saying I want to make a
02:00hit song it's just not a good place to
02:02start I think the best place to start I
02:04want to make a really good movie and
02:05then sometimes it will go viral and
02:07there are certain sort of zeitgeist you
02:09can hit with in there that will increase
02:10your chances of virality but beyond that
02:13it has to do with how the content
02:16resonates with an audience in order to
02:18promote that virality and certainly like
02:21what is most attractive to me about
02:22YouTube as a platform and I should say
02:25every time I say YouTube I'm more
02:26referring to broadly Internet video
02:29YouTube this happens to be sort of the
02:31arbiter of that right now but it is
02:34democratic it is fair one example I like
02:38to give is when I started my youtube
02:40channel that I have now I had a show on
02:44HBO that was premiering a new episode
02:46every single week with him multi-million
02:48dollar marketing budget behind it but I
02:50was putting new videos up on YouTube as
02:52often as I could and I was getting like
02:53200 views 500 years like my 13 year old
02:57kid at the time had friends that he was
02:59in middle school but they had bigger
03:00YouTube channels than I did so despite
03:03that sort of that celebrity that I had
03:05from mainstream media it didn't transfer
03:07over and it was only when I had really
03:09explosive videos videos that popped that
03:12I was able to grow meaning that like
03:13with all of my sort of leverage that I
03:16accrued in my career it didn't translate
03:19to viewership until I started making
03:21content that people really wanted to see
03:23and what what do you think it is about
03:26like the content that pop do you have
03:28any sense of what was what were those
03:30videos that and what made them special
03:32well sure I think that my youtube
03:35channel exploded in 2010 2011 when I put
03:38a movie out there called bike lanes
03:40which is right when there was all this
03:42controversy all this discussion it was
03:44actually in San Francisco and in New
03:45York around the city really heavy
03:49handedly putting bike lanes everywhere
03:51and I made a video about the bike lanes
03:53where I get a ticket from a police
03:55officer for riding my bike outside of
03:57the bike lanes which is not a violation
03:58and my argument was like the bike lanes
04:01are blocked so I made a video where I
04:03ride my bike in the bike lanes and I do
04:04not leave the bike lanes no matter what
04:06including a park top car there leaning
04:08to at full speed you know right over the
04:10handlebars you definitely watch this one
04:12after the event I burst yes as a very
04:14reason I think close to 20 million views
04:16but that video was put online and and
04:19Michael Bloomberg had to answer to that
04:20video in a press conference the same day
04:22it was just exploded so quickly but
04:24again that's a really good example of
04:26got a bunch of really capturing the
04:28zeitgeist at the moment it was something
04:30people were desperate to talk about they
04:32needed something to to be a centerpiece
04:34of that conversation here's a video that
04:36like 11:00 every eleven-year-old in the
04:37country thinks it's hysterical I think
04:41one thing I've heard you talk about to
04:42that I thought was really interesting
04:44was that you say you seek out conflict
04:46or you seek out sort of that that thing
04:49that the button that everyone's
04:51frustrated with but they're not really
04:53quite aware that they're frustrated with
04:55and I feel like bike lane is a good
04:56example of that and it's something that
04:58innately we all want to say hey this
05:00happened to you too remember this yeah I
05:03think bike lane is probably the best
05:04example of that because you could at the
05:06time you could search I think New York
05:08Times wrote an article and it was just
05:09about this you could search on YouTube
05:11like bikers versus cops and there were a
05:14thousand videos of pissed-off bikers
05:15screaming at cops about getting a ticket
05:17they were wrongly that they were wrongly
05:19given but nobody wants to see that way
05:21that's not interesting but the idea of
05:23like physical humor which is like always
05:25watching somebody get hurt is always
05:27funny and then like cool music making it
05:31fun to watch making it palatable so like
05:32okay I'll give you two and half minutes
05:33of my time and then attaching that to a
05:37social issue that is relevant enough to
05:40make me click play in the first place
05:42those things by the way are like
05:46moon's aligning with Pluto like they are
05:48the greatest anomaly and if I knew how
05:51to prescribe them that's all I do but it
05:53they are way outside of anyone's
05:55person's control and that's why I reject
05:57sort of the term of making a viral video
05:59is because to find the opportunities to
06:01create something that hits on all of
06:03those things is is incredibly elusive
06:06yeah and you talked a lot about quantity
06:08to just encouraging people like you
06:10started vlogging every single day and
06:11that changed your audience numbers
06:13massively but can you talk a little bit
06:15about why you believe that people just
06:17need to be or like if you want if you
06:19want to build an audience why creating a
06:21lot of content is something that you
06:23think works well for people sure yeah so
06:26my first literally my first five years
06:27on YouTube we're just making short films
06:30short films like that short films that
06:32that varied from a subject matter of
06:34perspective greatly and I put one out
06:37roughly every three weeks they did huge
06:40you know several hundred thousand into
06:42the tens of millions of views wildly
06:45successful but in five years I accrued
06:49five hundred thousand subscribers and a
06:51hundred million views which made me a
06:53runaway success I switched to daily
06:56content and in the next five months I
06:59heard another five hundred thousand
07:00subscribers so it took me five years I
07:02do believe in five months in the next
07:05five weeks I got my next point five
07:07hundred thousand subscribers and and now
07:11even close to four hundred million views
07:13on that's 300 million of which I've
07:15gotten in the last three hundred days so
07:17I think that it's it's what I learned
07:21from that is that it's it's the content
07:24is important it's the most important
07:26thing but a really close second is the
07:28relationship that you can form uniquely
07:30on the internet with an audience and
07:32nothing else really affords you that
07:34opportunity nothing in mainstream media
07:37I don't know of another outlet that
07:39enables you to have such a dynamic
07:42relationship with an audience as YouTube
07:45it's six to ten minutes a day that a
07:48million million half people are spending
07:49with me which makes interactions in the
07:52street really weird but it's a really
07:55great way to build an audience it seems
07:56like you handle it you're pretty social
07:58with everyone naturally but one thing I
08:01I wanted to ask you about too is Casey
08:04you also had his own HBO show and you've
08:06made films in the past you've done a lot
08:08of you done commercial work and now you
08:10call yourself a youtuber that's the bio
08:12that you choose to take on and part of
08:14it is because of how you feel about the
08:17audience relationship and will you just
08:19talk a little bit about about why why
08:22YouTube specifically and and why you
08:24prefer that mode of working sure um yeah
08:27my background is very traditional media
08:29the last feature film I made premiered
08:32at the Cannes Film Festival premiered in
08:33North America Sundance it won an
08:35Independent Spirit Award that like my
08:36parents got to watch me get on TV and it
08:39was a very see Africa distribution my
08:42tio show i wrote directed and produced
08:43and starred in it was premiered on HBO
08:45as a big deal and and I was I was
08:50probably like I'd achieved a level of
08:53in media that I had sought my entire
08:55career and in that same mainstream media
08:58the idea being a youtuber is is a really
09:00dirty word there's something that's
09:03at least that's like my own insecure
09:05perspective on it and it wasn't until
09:07really this year that I started to
09:10reject this term of being a filmmaker
09:12and now I only want to be known as a
09:14youtuber that's all I want to be
09:17identified as and the reason why and
09:19this is something I just experienced
09:21that I just sort of came into vivid
09:22focus for me is mainstream media where I
09:26was anyways that is television and
09:27feature films it is a one-way street it
09:29is a one-way conversation it's me
09:32talking to you and that's where it ends
09:34and YouTube that YouTube is is a
09:37symbiotic relationship between the
09:39creator and the audience it's a
09:41symbiotic relationship that's built on a
09:42democratic egalitarian platform that
09:44everyone has the same entry point on and
09:47when it comes to sort of the romance the
09:48power the the what moving images what
09:51videos what movies are capable of I
09:53don't know of like a more sort of
09:55beautiful idea of what can be
09:57accomplished with that then what's
10:00happening on YouTube on the internet
10:01right now so like I don't care about 800
10:06like snobby Frenchmen sitting in a
10:08theater watching my movie and on screen
10:10I care about like the eleven-year-old
10:12kid sitting in like the corner of the
10:13classroom with his white headphone in
10:14one ear hiding and cell phone in his
10:16book watching my vlog like that that is
10:18a much more profound relationship with
10:21the content then why even watching in
10:23the theater so for me like there is no
10:26higher watermark in the world of
10:28filmmaking then what it means to succeed
10:30on the Internet what it means to succeed
10:32on YouTube and that's why I embrace that
10:34title and how do you interact with your
10:37audience back the other direction
10:38besides just producing content for them
10:41do you meet them in person ever did you
10:43put in person stuff or just responding
10:45online in person stuff is terrifying
10:48we all idea what it's like there are
10:50only 5,000 people who know everything
10:52about you and you have no idea no I did
10:57one meetup in my entire career and it
11:00was last year at VidCon and we had 18
11:03security people like 18 bodyguards and
11:06all in six more and they were all
11:08overrun it was absolute chaos it was
11:12just like that movie World War Z so
11:16those make me uncomfortable but know it
11:18mechanically like there are some really
11:20great tools out there Twitter is
11:21probably my favorite and it's my
11:23favorite because it's the easiest it's
11:25also my favorite because I'm able to at
11:27a glance see what questions are being
11:29asked what's coming my what's coming my
11:31way and then pick out what I see is like
11:32if one person asked me something like
11:34that person cares but if a hundred
11:35people ask me the same version a
11:37different version of the same question
11:39then that's a question that I probably
11:40answer and I can answer in a forum that
11:42is public do you have an example of one
11:44of those that you feel like you just all
11:45of a sudden got acid ton sure like a lot
11:48of the technical questions you know
11:49something I preach from from all of my
11:52flaws is this idea that the gear doesn't
11:53matter it's what you can do with it and
11:56that's always followed up by a lot of
11:58insecure kids being like my parents will
11:59only by me or I only have this so when I
12:02see those questions surfacing I try to
12:05answer them in the most sort of forward
12:06and and dynamic way possible it just
12:08shuts down the conversation that's like
12:11you're good you got a cell phone you're
12:12good like you've got your mom's old like
12:15like ELF camera that shoots that you're
12:18good like you've got it like it doesn't
12:20matter like it this week the thing that
12:22I said that really desired it was like
12:23Citizen Kane and The Godfather two were
12:26edited using scissors and tape if you've
12:29got like iMovie on your mom's old iPhone
12:30you're good and like the opportunity to
12:33be able to communicate that to a really
12:34broad audience yeah by answering one
12:36question is something that I look for
12:39yeah and you'll make I've seen YouTube
12:41videos where you address these kinds of
12:42four so you'll go full-on and produce
12:44something that's right a day which is
12:46awesome and I also wanted to ask you do
12:49you feel like you have a sense of who
12:50your audience is is it sort of intuitive
12:53or do you look at information at all or
12:55I do a look at all the information yeah
12:58but there's nothing as powerful as 4d
12:59anecdotal experiences that you have ya
13:03know like if you ask me I'm like no it's
13:05a million thirteen year old kids 13 old
13:07boys but like I was walking my daughter
13:10through Tribeca this weekend like
13:12struggling to put the plastic bag
13:14reverse strollers is five degrees
13:15outside and like I see his mom pushing a
13:18double stroller hunched over and she
13:19me you can see that me that looked that
13:21I can recognize from my limp let's her
13:23head down and she's like I love your
13:24vlogs it's like as I finally have like
13:28penetrated the Tribeca mom Universal but
13:34like that to me is it's hugely fun like
13:36the flight attendant on last night's
13:38flight yeah and it's like so that's
13:39where it's really interesting to me and
13:41nothing underscores sort of the power of
13:42the Internet like something like an
13:45experience an interaction like that it's
13:46what that means it's like no it's not
13:48just a million teenagers on the other
13:49side but but this is now becoming where
13:52people watch yourself it's not where
13:54people watch YouTube video is just what
13:55people watch yeah it's I do you feel as
13:59though it started as that small like a
14:01group of young teenage boys like from my
14:05perspective of at least how he grew
14:06Instagram we started out with this core
14:08audience of people that were
14:10photographers and designers and that's
14:12actually who we went and spoke to when
14:14we released the app and who we promoted
14:16right away because we felt like they
14:17presented an interesting point of view
14:19that when you downloaded the app you
14:21weren't just seeing the same photos that
14:23you saw on Facebook so we had this sort
14:25of like core group that was really they
14:28really found the value in what we were
14:31we were producing and building and I
14:32feel like anytime you build a community
14:33you have to start with some group that
14:35really gets you you what what do you
14:38have a group like that do you feel like
14:39you started with young teenage boys or I
14:42yeah I don't know yeah I don't know I
14:45know that like when I started out on
14:46YouTube it's the same time I was making
14:48videos for the New York Times like you
14:50would think at least a sense of there's
14:52a wildly different audiences but I found
14:54there was like a tremendous amount of
14:55overlap there huh so it was like a
14:57really universal appeal with those kinds
14:59of videos no my vlogs are completely
15:01different months yeah it's the same
15:02people tuning in every single day so I
15:05think there's a there's a great deal
15:06there's a lot of disparity in those two
15:08different audiences yeah one thing I
15:10also want to talk to you about is kind
15:12of maybe talk a little bit about how you
15:14work with brands and some of that might
15:16be connected to I know a lot of brands
15:18are interested in figuring out what do
15:20young girl like or what younger people
15:22interested in and clearly like a huge
15:24group of them are interested in your
15:25content but what is it maybe could you
15:28walk us through how you end up working
15:30with a brand like just the nuts and
15:33do they send you an email like how do
15:35you make those decisions the mechanics
15:37like they're not super interesting or
15:38sexy but yeah like it's yet probably 600
15:42700 emails a day to my website I feel so
15:45I thought so all of them myself I've had
15:48assistants do it but almost every email
15:51is written from something they feel like
15:52they're writing directly to me and it
15:53feels really dirty it's okay if I just
15:56glanced over somebody's even but it
15:58feels really kind of yeah yeah um but in
16:00there usually that's where the first
16:01point of contact is yeah I'm also you
16:03know they'll contact my agent if they're
16:05slightly more savvy or a source for yeah
16:07but that's it and then they just sort of
16:09paying me and a conversation begins that
16:11sometimes is an email that gets rude how
16:12do they hook you in what what what is an
16:14example of seem like that one definitely
16:16it's it's well usually it's just the
16:18brand yeah who's what's the company you
16:21can learn everything you need to know
16:21about that at a glance yeah yeah
16:25mechanically so you know Nike emails me
16:28and like would you like to work it's
16:29like yes thank you great let's do it
16:31conversation there's some back-and-forth
16:33there's no agency in between us yes Nike
16:36executives and myself but when you say
16:38yeah it's Nike if that's that's is there
16:40something about their brand there you're
16:41like man that's just I personal affinity
16:44I mean it's Nike a better example that
16:50I mean mercedes-benz they make fantastic
16:52cars but I think of mercedes-benz I
16:54think of all the rich white people and
16:56really snobby advertising that's
16:58beautiful and perfect I don't know how
16:59to do any of those things
17:00I don't know rich white person yet but
17:04so so there's a brand I really want to
17:07work with but I'm highly skeptical
17:08because if they try to force me into
17:10their box like I'm gonna do a terrible
17:12job to make me look like a jerk and
17:14they're not gonna like me and also the
17:15audience is just so sensitive to that
17:17stuff when you leave so personal with
17:19them yeah I mean so to zoom out how much
17:21more interesting conversation and the
17:22mechanics which I'm happy to dive into
17:24but is sort of me that the the barometer
17:28like what am I willing to work on where
17:30I might not want to work with the value
17:31exchange has to be at least equal I mean
17:35it has to elevate my brand as much as it
17:37elevates yours like I do believe that my
17:40Nike video is still it was the most it
17:43might now be second most watched video
17:45ever put online so clear the value is
17:47great for that maybe you could tell the
17:49story of that video just in case you're
17:50sure that that video in particular you
17:52know Nike hired me to do a campaign for
17:54them it was a three video campaign the
17:55first two were we're typical they're
17:57great really proud of them working with
17:59their puttered million-dollar athletes
18:00and they're really fun they let me do
18:01whatever I wanted the third video was
18:03supposed to be about how people around
18:06the world make their daily lives count
18:08what do I just say that special but I
18:11kind of like ten weeks into the
18:13relationship just like freak the
18:14out because there's so many religions on
18:16the second video that I called my editor
18:18and I was like you know the whole check
18:20cleared for this video let's just like
18:22take the budget and blow it running
18:25around the world which is something I've
18:26always wanted to do like literally just
18:28go into an airport and say where can we
18:30go next whatever the cost is just pay
18:31for it a nike's dollar till we're out of
18:33money no it was like nine days and you
18:35said you didn't even like lay down to
18:37sleep for the first one it was great
18:40and I remember like my editor who was my
18:43best friend who came with me who is now
18:45like a big TV star somewhat ironically
18:47um we came back and like 55 hours with
18:50the footage or something like that he's
18:51like what do we do now another there's
18:53got to be a movie in there somewhere
18:55and we missed every single deadline
18:57eventually Nike sent somebody from
19:00Beaverton to New York City Alex Lopez
19:02executive there showed up at our door
19:04and he's like you gotta show me
19:06something and we filler to me was like
19:07guys what is this and we're like we just
19:11need more time and eventually made a
19:13video that they really liked and had
19:15this big campaign built around it and
19:16they're released it and by the end of
19:18the first day they're like cancel
19:19everything just let it go
19:21and we just let the video go and it just
19:23kept going and going and then like the
19:26news started to pick up on it and then
19:27magazines started writing about it and
19:29then like it was just everywhere and I
19:32really liked that video kicked off what
19:35is now like this hopefully we're out the
19:36tail end of this is really annoying and
19:38stupid but like this inspirational
19:40advertising like this idea of like go
19:43Yolo like all that stupid with the
19:45obnoxious trite like really terrible if
19:49you bring it all back there was none of
19:50that before that video that video is the
19:53but yeah wildly successful it's W of
19:56still does millions of you
19:58it still resurfaces and like has these
20:01little viral pops every couple of months
20:02and what what would you say is makes
20:06good brand content when they're working
20:08with a personality like you like oh yeah
20:11a lot of press like do you feel like you
20:12should have to pick the right person and
20:14then really let them do it from their
20:15point of view yeah I mean I'm glad I'm
20:18not a brand because picking individuals
20:19to work with has to be really really
20:20hard but I can tell you from the other
20:23perspective from my perspective it's
20:25that users have viewers calm users now
20:30because I so because my tech company but
20:32viewers have sensors that are
20:35beyond any of our understandings I'm
20:38looking around we're all over the age of
20:3913 here like their sensors are
20:42so so so sensitive so hypersensitive
20:45that like the slightest scent of
20:46 that we can't even see like
20:48just sends it into the red and it's
20:49rejected the way my kid watches YouTube
20:52videos watches hulu videos watches
20:53anything and so I'll be watching like
20:55this he'll click on a video a
20:56five-second pre-roll comes up it's
20:58control t second tab goes to another
21:00site views whatever it is for four and a
21:02half seconds it clicks back control one
21:04back on the video like that his
21:06sensor was so fast the muscle memory
21:08took over and he avoided that entire
21:10commercial that degree antiperspirant
21:11paid for the pre-roll in front of a
21:14million dollar commercial that they paid
21:15to produce his sensor like push
21:17that out so you have to create content
21:20that will penetrate that in order to do
21:22that you have to create content that
21:23people actually want to watch so how you
21:26do that you've got video in dollar
21:28question but by coming to me I have this
21:32this this I can replace works like well
21:35people want to watch my stuff so if the
21:37first question is you want me to make
21:39your stuff like we've already failed
21:40that's not why people show up so with
21:42Mercedes it was like well here's what I
21:44would do if I could do anything right
21:46now I don't know anything about cars I
21:47remember I literally met with the CEO
21:49here in in San Francisco and the ad
21:53agency is like sitting on the table
21:54they're really nervous like setting me
21:56sitting me next to the CEO he's like so
21:58what are you thinking and I was like let
22:00me start by saying I don't know how to
22:01sell cars and everyone
22:04and I'm not interested in that and I was
22:07like the second I start preaching like
22:08how many horsepower this thing nobody
22:09gives a I was like so let me tell
22:12this story about like me learning about
22:14this car and if you're trying to figure
22:15out how to make a car commercial and
22:17that was kind of the brief I remembers a
22:19one-page brief that I sent them for a
22:21four video campaign that lasted five
22:23months long that was like really really
22:24well-received by my audience I think
22:26they were very happy with the impact of
22:28the videos had because it was really
22:30honest and it was really Frank you know
22:32was really approachable and I feel like
22:34my audience saw it as like well if I was
22:36given that budget in that car on that
22:37camera I would have made something just
22:39like that it's all broken and messed up
22:41and shot on point and shoots and
22:42something that I that's accessible to me
22:44it makes sense to me yeah inspiring but
22:47accessible interesting and compelling
22:48but I can understand I can project
22:51myself into that in some way they
22:53wouldn't let me put when I wrecked the
22:54Mercedes either time any of the times in
22:59the video and one time when I wrecked
23:01when I had to cover it in a tarp before
23:02I could get it towed away I want to go
23:04back to you and this is like sort of
23:06this like incredible sensor
23:08that young especially young people have
23:10now and one thing we were talking about
23:12just before walking out was how
23:15especially kids today I think everyone
23:17in this room we have this incredibly
23:19nuanced sense of exactly what content we
23:21are gonna post in exactly which platform
23:24and you are like you're huge on
23:26Instagram but that's not even anything
23:28compared to where you are on snapchat
23:30and that's not even anything compared to
23:31where you are on YouTube and so you're
23:33touching all these different platforms
23:35and doing different slightly different
23:36continent in each place but I just want
23:38you to talk a little bit about video
23:40specifically and sort of how you see all
23:43these different that's slightly nuanced
23:46platforms to publish and what that means
23:48for you sure and I think that from a
23:51developer's perspective something that I
23:53also represent is that
23:56compartmentalization that's happening on
23:57on behalf of both the creators and the
23:59consumers is becoming so rigid that it
24:02makes it very very very hard to
24:05penetrate a very literal example of that
24:07is like this is the kind of video that
24:09goes on Instagram if it's not that kind
24:11of video doesn't get watched doesn't get
24:14this is the kind of video that goes here
24:15this is kind of and like that is the
24:17rigidity around that is becoming more
24:18and more so navigating that is really
24:21challenging it's really challenging it's
24:23much harder from a developer's
24:24perspective and I think it is from a
24:26consumers perspective but navigating
24:28that I think is one of the biggest
24:29struggles for me literally you know I
24:32rose super super fast on snapchat
24:34because essentially I was using snapchat
24:36as a tool to daily vlog I'd pull these
24:38little stories out of my daily life and
24:39compartmentalize them into a three-act
24:41narrative that would be told in under a
24:43hundred seconds because that was the
24:45threshold before they put in that disk
24:46it had a second countdown if you were
24:48three digits people stopped watching it
24:50had to be 99 seconds were under I would
24:53tell a whole story in a hundred seconds
24:55and then I started daily vlogging and
24:57all of sudden this conflict came up
24:58which is like if this is interesting
25:00something in the vlog not on snapchat
25:01and I'll sudden those two boxes
25:03perfectly overlapped and I struggled and
25:06I dropped off on snapchat I stopped
25:08sharing on snapchat because that's how
25:09rigid those boxes were for me and I
25:12think like that's one of the biggest
25:15struggles like I started a technology
25:16company because I believe very much
25:19they've now more than ever that there is
25:21not an outlet there's not a box where
25:23you can just sort of share something
25:25that's fairly meaningless something
25:26really lightweight something that's
25:27insignificant if it's on snapchat it
25:30needs to be funny or cool or make me
25:31look cool it's not Instagram it's got to
25:33be beautiful if it's on YouTube it's got
25:34to be meaningful if it's on Facebook it
25:36has to be something that my friends and
25:37peers really want to engage with but
25:39where's the place where you just share
25:40little moments that are interests almost
25:42passively share and I don't think
25:44there's a box for that and I really want
25:45a box for that so but you know raised a
25:48bunch of dumb bunch of money and built a
25:49whole company that's doing just that
25:51we're still really far from success but
25:53like I believe in this
25:55compartmentalization of content so so
25:58strongly that I build an entire company
26:00because I needed another box to put
26:01content in do you think it's gonna make
26:03it harder to come up as a creator if you
26:05need to have content for all of those
26:07different spots I do like it takes a lot
26:10of hours I mean maybe you could talk a
26:12little bit about I know you edit like up
26:14until late and at night you wake up
26:16early in the morning and you put a lot
26:18of effort obviously it's gotten to a
26:20point where like I used to come home
26:22from work and start editing and then
26:23like my wife almost left me
26:26threatens to leave me seven nights a
26:27week so now I like pretend to go to bed
26:30with her or like when she's asleep
26:33dad like sit there like a troll in the
26:37dark and edit all night long
26:38like that's my every single day it is
26:41like it's a lot of work it is a huge
26:44huge huge amount of work but I think
26:46YouTube is unique in that perspective I
26:48think YouTube is by far the hardest I
26:50think we're already at our last question
26:52which is crazy but I I wanted to ask you
26:57what are you gonna do with your content
26:59this year that's different from last
27:01year what what are you gonna change or
27:03do differently or focus on well somewhat
27:06ironically I started posting daily on
27:08YouTube because I saw it as a means to
27:11increase my social influence I could
27:13then leverage to promote my own social
27:15platform that worked and continues to
27:19work but now like I've grown this sort
27:21of affinity like this this blinding
27:24passion for it it's something I love and
27:25find more satisfying and gratifying than
27:27any video creation I've ever done in my
27:2915 year career so I want to continue
27:32that and I want to blow that up I wanted
27:33to keep going bigger beyond that like
27:36something that I want to figure out this
27:38year that I don't think anyone's really
27:39figured out outside of the gaming space
27:40is live I don't know what that means I
27:43don't think it's periscope
27:45I think periscope is a fantastic utility
27:47and I don't think it's a social platform
27:48I don't know where that goes when we
27:51talk about those like when I talk about
27:52those like those rigid boxes I don't
27:54think it can be on YouTube which makes
27:57me sad to say I don't think and be on
27:58Facebook I think it's somewhere else I
28:00think it's a really right place I think
28:03people want my content on YouTube so I
28:05want to hang out with me so what's a
28:06much more liberal way of letting people
28:08hang out with me I feel like I heard you
28:10say one time live is boring there
28:13anything without it's sports or news
28:15easily boring yeah unless it's unless
28:17it's an event centered around event it's
28:19boring so what is a way that one of the
28:22mechanics were overcoming that I don't
28:24think can be accomplished on a phone how
28:27do you address that I don't know I've
28:28done very little experimentation in the
28:30place but I'm in the say some really
28:31focus on it I would say VR - I feel like
28:34that's just that's become a default I
28:37think it's interesting it's been an
28:40yeah a lot of money and a lot of energy
28:41doing VR stuff and I still think like
28:45people don't quite know what to do with
28:47it I do did a done up like 5 million
28:49views on one vr video and I think
28:51because everybody like so to figure out
28:55what hot in there it find a narrative
28:57that really leverages what you can do
28:59with VR I think we're a little bit
29:01there's a little distance between where
29:03we are now where we could go with that
29:04yeah how do you answer the question why
29:07should I use your platform instead of
29:09so I've posts all my pictures on
29:12facebook why would I possibly post the
29:13same pictures on Instagram yeah we
29:17listen to people I mean like I was
29:20saying starting out figuring out who's
29:22the group of people that really needs
29:24and wants and has adopted early what
29:28you're making and I have this when we
29:31were at Facebook we kind of went from
29:32being this tiny company to all of a
29:34sudden needing to be big boys and we did
29:37a lot more just like actually market
29:40research and to what people thought
29:41about Instagram and we'd independently
29:43by just by talking with people that use
29:45it all the time over email in person
29:47whatever come up with our three values
29:50which were community first inspire
29:52creativity in simplicity matters and we
29:54went out and interviewed all these
29:56people about what they thought about
29:57Instagram they came back with that to us
29:59with those three things it was about
30:01sharing with their friends it was about
30:03being creative and it was about it being
30:04fast and simple and we had just
30:06anecdotally absorbed all of that just by
30:09always reaching out and listening to
30:11people who were really really passionate
30:13about Instagram so I think figuring out
30:15like who are the people that are a
30:17hundred percent match with this thing
30:18that I'm creating and then how can I go
30:20spend as much time with them as possible
30:22to understand like what is that the core
30:24of their like obsession with this thing
30:27why are they using and and how do I
30:29bring that peace to more people
30:31introduce it to more people thank you
30:34yeah thank you for coming guys
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