00:00hi and welcome to the a 16z podcast in
00:03this episode another of our hallway
00:05conversations Benedict Evans and Steven
00:07Sinofsky go over the recent Apple event
00:09Apple event plus and consider what it
00:12all means in terms of big company
00:14strategy and the evolution of Apple
00:15moving to services please note that the
00:18content here is for informational
00:19purposes only should not be taken as
00:21legal business tax or investment advice
00:23or be used to evaluate any investment or
00:25security and is not directed at any
00:28investors or potential investors in any
00:30a 16 Z fund for more details please
00:32visit a 16z com forward slash
00:34disclosures welcome to an episode of the
00:37a 16 z podcast I'm Steven Sinofsky I'm
00:40Benedict Evans and today we're going to
00:43talk a little bit about the
00:44announcements at Apple's sort of new
00:47look events the Apple Plus event the
00:49Apple Plus event the event plus but I I
00:52want to start all off because you know I
00:54haven't paid that much attention
00:57afterwards but certainly during the
00:59event there was just so much build-up as
01:01usual which is good because they're a
01:02huge company and people pay attention
01:03but then so much you know sort of oh it
01:08was weird it was different and it wasn't
01:11what we were expecting and all this kind
01:13of stuff and I want to take a step back
01:15because I'm completely fascinated by
01:17Apple moving to services which is
01:20obviously a huge deal and I want to talk
01:23about it at the strategic sense not
01:24necessarily the financial this isn't
01:26really about the finances or the the
01:28business side as much as the strategy
01:29and so one thing that's super
01:31interesting is just out of the gate is
01:32Apple has 360 million or so subscribers
01:35worldwide that's a sort of a vanity
01:38number because it includes subscriptions
01:40to apps in the App Store but because
01:42Apple gets a cut at least for year one
01:44it's it's a relevant number so I tried
01:47to find other subscriptions that were
01:49big the only one I came close was China
01:51Mobile which is like a billion and then
01:54after that Benedict sold friends in
01:56Europe vota and telefónica yeah they've
01:59all operators global mobile operators
02:01have got hundreds of millions nobody
02:03else is big on a global scale even vota
02:05and telefónica at least the current
02:07numbers are under that 360 number but
02:09it's very close it's interesting if you
02:12sort of sit and make a list
02:14of how many different places is Apple
02:17kind of putting a tap on to the tree and
02:20taking some SAP out so how many
02:23do you have an opportunity to pay Apple
02:25ten dollars a month it's a little bit
02:27like you know the joke about cable TV
02:29like you cancel your cable for a hundred
02:31dollars a month right and you sign up to
02:32this for ten dollars and this for ten
02:34dollars and this for ten dollars in your
02:35and not spending a hundred dollars you
02:37could probably you're pretty soon you'll
02:39be able to spare pay Apple Don one
02:40hundred dollars a month in subscriptions
02:41right and and the interesting thing and
02:43of course that's a it is a good joke
02:46about cable TV and unbundling now one of
02:48the things I think that's super
02:49interesting about that is it is
02:51replacing a place where you have no
02:54choice effectively especially in the US
02:57market for television and but not the
03:00case for news necessarily but it's
03:02replacing it with a feeling of
03:04self-determination and control which i
03:07think is really important and I want to
03:08come back to something that just
03:09resonated for me throughout each of the
03:12main new plus e things
03:14yeah and that was the sort of this
03:16positioning underlying everything they
03:18said and it's sort of the number of
03:20times and this consistency across each
03:22news subscription $10 a month thing that
03:25they talked about it being private and
03:27having no tracking between it being
03:29curated and using I heard that somebody
03:32on Twitter sent that they were they were
03:34publisher and they had a big advertising
03:37deal and on their own they're called for
03:41that content on Apple News they had a
03:42big third-party aperture as a the Apple
03:44news team blocked the advertiser because
03:46it wanted tracking that they weren't
03:48willing to give it guess who the Apple
03:49advertiser was Apple oops
03:52Apple's advertising team was demanding
03:55tracking that Apple's News team was not
03:57allowed to are going to allow a
03:58publisher to do well I've been I've been
04:00in the situation of the right hand left
04:01hand on tracking in particular and I
04:03know how tricky that one can be but
04:05going back it so it was private no
04:06tracking curated with humans it was very
04:10important and that's obviously a
04:11statement they're making also no ads and
04:14family and that's well you know of
04:16course when you subscribe to a magazine
04:17or cable it's for your family too so
04:19it's not like some giant leap but
04:22particularly on games which you know
04:24today aren't quite shared you know
04:25obviously Netflix does a great job on
04:28so there's a big kind of sense of kind
04:31of the brand the fuzzy brand feeling
04:33here which is not about the technology
04:35in the product it's about privacy and
04:37curation the the sort of there was sort
04:40of gossip coming out of Hollywood that
04:42Apple kept pushing back on the TV
04:44Sherry's saying it wasn't
04:45family-friendly and a fit they were he's
04:47got Tim Cook apparently was writing this
04:49as being too mean can you be less mean
04:51and you know that's a very different to
04:54where the kind of the direction of
04:56travel of TV has been in the last five
04:57and 10 years with other subscription
04:59services which is being that's family
05:00friendly and more edgy and alternative
05:01and pushing the boundaries interesting
05:03challenge for Apple of course they end
05:04with April Winfrey start with Steven
05:06Spielberg and end with April Winfrey
05:07they did they didn't share lots of
05:09action movies in the interim you're
05:12talking about services I mean there's
05:13there's something that sort of intrigues
05:15me here that for a long time you would
05:18look at the App Store in the 30% and
05:20people would say Apple is one doing X
05:22and Y and Zed I don't like on the App
05:23Store and they're doing it for the money
05:25and you would say no because actually if
05:27you think about what 30% of the App
05:29Store is it's tiny in proportion to the
05:32overall Apple business and the purpose
05:33of the app store is to sell iPhones and
05:36to make the iPhone a great experience
05:37and yes they're making a little bit of
05:39money from it kind of on the side but
05:40actually it's there for the app store to
05:42sell iPhones and I think that's still
05:44sort of true except this now 800 million
05:47iPhones and over a billion iOS devices
05:49and I think Apple said 500 million
05:52people open the app store every week and
05:53so 30% of those purchases has become a
05:57real number yeah yeah and so there's a
05:59kind of an interesting thing across many
06:02of these tech companies actually there's
06:03something that was kind of non core or
06:05non strategic all sort of not there for
06:07the money they're not the money that you
06:09weren't really there for has now become
06:11a really big number well and that's one
06:12of the things about the scale that makes
06:14us all very interesting because I think
06:16that this move to services people are
06:19just having trouble getting their heads
06:21wrapped around it and it's a very
06:23natural progression for any company when
06:26it starts to reach a mature level which
06:28is okay are we now effectively you know
06:32selling things to our are quote
06:34installed base enough and in the world
06:36of enterprise software like every
06:38company is in the transition to
06:41space they're taking their existing
06:42customers and they're reselling in their
06:44old software about on a cloud thing and
06:46in the enterprise space that's like
06:47heroic and it's viewed as this like
06:50brilliant strategy and here's Apple
06:52doing the same thing and it's like oh
06:54this is a recognition that they're
06:55doomed and it's the end of the line for
06:57them and and it's a very weird thing to
07:00sort of see because it's both natural
07:03and unlike all the other enterprise
07:05businesses Apple is saturating the
07:08population not not some artificial
07:10number like number of computers
07:12marketing people's five and a half
07:14billion adults on earth and four billion
07:16or so people have a smartphone and eight
07:17hundred ninety nine hundred million of
07:20I mean I mean we should probably is kind
07:22of a for people you haven't aren't
07:23obsessed with this stuff and haven't
07:24seen the event we should pretty
07:25specifically about the show show
07:26announced so they did four announcements
07:28so the first is that they've extended
07:30the existing news product which has been
07:31so they have to Apple news product
07:33there's been kind of a sleeper hit it
07:34draws a lot of traffic for publishers
07:36it's again manually curated so they
07:39don't let any theoretically they don't
07:40have kind of random junk in there
07:42Apple News now will get this company
07:45they bought last year called texture
07:46which is sort of PDF magazines plus
07:50reformatted magazines ten dollars a
07:52month and there's I think 300 magazines
07:54on the title and there's some notable
07:56exceptions but basically everything is
07:58in there like the New York Times and
07:59there isn't in there but no Geographic
08:01and all sorts of other stuff is in there
08:03loads and loads of magazine and you pay
08:04your ten dollars a month then that sits
08:06within the news curated experience so it
08:08will suggest stuff from titles that you
08:10wouldn't necessarily have looked at it
08:11will say stuff will flow up and the
08:14pitch to magazine of course here is this
08:16found money because these people
08:17wouldn't abort your magazine they won't
08:19read all of it but they'll read five
08:20stories and you'll get some money from
08:21that people in magazine business is
08:24saying hey you're giving up customer
08:26ownership and B you're giving Apple
08:27fifty percent an awful lot of people
08:29don't get customer ownership well this
08:31is me like yoga magazines like the only
08:33time I really buy Yoga magazines is at
08:35the airport this is the thing they say
08:37this you've got people at high Pro kind
08:39of top right corner of the quadrant
08:41titles saying you're insane you
08:43shouldn't give them shouldn't give up
08:44customer ownership you look at these
08:46titles most of those titles don't have
08:48customer ownership and will never get it
08:49and so there's a sort of a found money
08:51conversation in there so there's a news
08:54interesting the sim execution questions
08:56you could go and do the micro thing
08:57which we went on what's going on there
08:59there's news Plus then they have a
09:02well let's slow down for a second one
09:03more thing I news well sure like I'll do
09:05the poor but let's say there's news
09:06they've extended Apple pay and Apple
09:08cash with a credit card they have got a
09:12new version of their TV app that
09:14aggregates content from other TV apps on
09:16your on your phone on your device and
09:18from stuff that you might have access to
09:20you through your cable subscription so
09:21it should all just show up in one UI and
09:22then they have thereby paying people in
09:24Hollywood to make TV shows for them so
09:26those those four things distraction use
09:28right so so the interesting thing for me
09:29about news again it comes back to so
09:32Apple has has like core values it has a
09:35set of core attributes Tim Cook has done
09:38but there's there's three sets of Apple
09:40values that sort of float around the
09:41Steve Jobs one the early Tim Cook ones
09:43and then the most current ones that you
09:44could say on the website but the middle
09:46ones one of the things that they really
09:49talk about a lot is they like to make
09:52complex things simple
09:53yep and to me the the thread through all
09:56of the announcements today was like
09:59making complex things simple and for
10:01most people a lot of these things are
10:04are actually pretty complex like the
10:06idea of subscribing to six magazines
10:08it's not just that it's expensive it's
10:10it's kind of a complex thing you gotta
10:12finding them should make a note here
10:14that the US print magazine market is a
10:16subscription market right it's not true
10:18in other places so in the UK no one
10:20subscribes to magazines there's a shop
10:22selling 300 magazines every hundred
10:24yards from every shopping street you
10:25want a magazine you're going in you buy
10:26it no one subscribes in America like
10:28living in San Francisco supposedly an
10:30urban center if I want to get a magazine
10:31I actually can't like it less I go to
10:33the airport yeah all of those stores
10:34there used to be many of them there but
10:36the only way I could get a copy of
10:38National Geographic today is to mean
10:41some find some way of getting them to
10:42mail it to me right so in that context
10:44moving to Apple near the Apple news
10:46product does actually solve a consumer
10:48problem right and also just to like
10:50again with all of these there was a lot
10:52of like hemming and hawing over oh is
10:55this is this part of it gonna be
10:57available in Germany and is
10:58Liechtenstein gonna have special TV
11:01shows for them and the thing is when
11:03you're looking at your installed base is
11:05the potential customers you have a lot
11:08/ who's buying what and where and so it
11:10becomes very natural to sort of tilt
11:13things towards where the money is
11:15already being spent because the easiest
11:17dollar to make is a dollar more from
11:20somebody who's already paying you and in
11:22Apple's case like tilting it towards the
11:24the US and the early versions of these
11:26products makes a ton of obvious sense
11:29now they'll have an expanded at but they
11:32will follow the economics much more than
11:35you might for Hardware it'll look a lot
11:37more like when they open their Apple
11:38stores yeah I'm going back to the old
11:41world to print us magazines it's a
11:42bigger market and then the UK is a
11:44bigger magazine market than France or
11:46Germany and that's you would expect that
11:48to be reflected in what happens on this
11:49platform yeah and so but it's a it's
11:51part of what made the event weird for
11:53people is sometimes it was like well
11:55this isn't what we're really used to
11:56we're used to like a new device that
11:58will be available in 160 countries on
12:01Thursday yeah and all of a sudden it's
12:03like well it's complicated to roll out
12:05all these things like even just the
12:06magazines you've got to get everybody to
12:08be in sync on an issue like they can't
12:11just show up and TV production it's even
12:13more uncertain so I personally thought
12:16that that Apple news was was
12:19particularly interesting I have some
12:20beefs with it like so I think yeah I'm
12:22just listening to you talk I feel like
12:24there's these four cap there's these
12:25four vents and you could put them in
12:26very different places because Apple news
12:28is I would say this is a good solid
12:29incremental upgrade to an interesting
12:32useful product it's not changing the
12:34world it's a good product this is a good
12:35upgrade the same thing with their
12:37Refresh of the TV app yeah this is a
12:39good upgrade of an existing product that
12:41solves a bunch of problems there's also
12:42a two-hour argument about how well it
12:44does that and what else will happen and
12:45so on right but there basically is an
12:47incremental upgrade to an existing well
12:49understood product then you have these
12:51kind of to sort of meet well let's
12:53finish TV and let me get to that one
12:54because I might the thing on the TV that
12:56I think this is one where I would say
12:59it's the if only Apple got into the
13:02business of X they would fix it and and
13:04there's just this hope that Apple could
13:07show up and erase the existing business
13:09infrastructure of television and all the
13:11reasons why it's like that would stop
13:13mattering right just go away it reminds
13:16me of you know like anything that we all
13:18dislike and we all wonder if only Apple
13:20make that the world would be a better
13:22place we forget they didn't do that
13:23tutor to target telcos yeah you know you
13:26still pay your telco it's a matter of
13:29money and the service is still works
13:31pretty much then they they you know
13:35especially with the soft SIM and things
13:37like that they've not really pretty
13:38incrementally but it reduced complexity
13:41in some significant way and so I think
13:43that but they didn't buy a record label
13:45right I didn't buy telco exactly didn't
13:48until very they didn't buy a bank or or
13:49a book publisher yeah you know it's a
13:52fixed books and stuff and so I think
13:53that there's there the problem is when
13:55people are unhappy with any company
13:58doing something it's often because you
14:00know the company messed up but it's
14:01equally often that there's just a
14:03mismatch between expectations and what
14:05was really done and I think in the case
14:07of TV everybody just wants so much more
14:10and really nobody has cracked it in fact
14:13what's interesting is so much of the
14:14negatives about about what's going on
14:16with TV we forget how many people
14:19thought Netflix would never work and how
14:21many people like that we're in TV said
14:23Netflix wouldn't work like there are a
14:25bunch of people at Disney who were
14:27clearly convinced that it wasn't gonna
14:28get any traction and why they let them
14:30buy their shows right there's just no
14:32escaping this reality of TV that the
14:36people who make things like there to be
14:38a large number of customers and divide
14:41up the market in different ways by
14:42streaming and not streaming and DVD or
14:44pay-per-view or theater
14:47plus by country and that's not they make
14:50it so it's not gonna change yeah exactly
14:52I mean it is as though Apple had to do a
14:54telco and then you were complained that
14:56somehow the existing telco market starts
14:58you hadn't changed well yeah you're only
15:01gonna do this slowly and piecemeal and
15:03in a careful bits because there's very
15:04very strong incentives there that aren't
15:06going to go away right but if they can
15:07make you know like I I'm a TiVo user and
15:10one of them Roku is much the same way
15:12and both of those are products that take
15:15a very complex world of many different
15:17apps with many different feeds of
15:19potential content and make it simple and
15:22there's so much room for Apple to make
15:24that even simpler and the fact that they
15:26have a TV device is very interesting the
15:28fact that they will incrementally
15:31and wear that you know in Visio TV or LG
15:33TV or Samsung TV it's all goodness and
15:35and I I think I think it's just it it
15:38fits the description of like progress
15:40and that's good to see it didn't erase
15:42the TV industry but it's progress
15:43yeah we've got news and the TV app these
15:47are interesting useful products that
15:48solve problems for people they are not
15:50the Jesus phone no this is just include
15:53good incremental work by a bunch of
15:54people they're making it a bit better
15:56Apple card I'm not cut I'm not a card
15:58person which is actually also
15:59interesting in the context of TV you're
16:01like so you're like anti tracking and
16:03everything so what I mean is I can't sit
16:07there and analyze exactly what it looks
16:10like well issues what the propositions
16:11which is similar to TV a lot of the TV
16:13questions are actually TV industry
16:15question is not apple or tech question
16:16right right I think another way you can
16:19think about all of these services are
16:20they all bind you into the phone right
16:23and so there is a you know just as
16:26everything Amazon hamster Prime keeps
16:27you from canceling your prime account
16:29and that drives everything drives all of
16:31your purchases through Amazon all of
16:33these things are sort of ways of making
16:35your next phone purchase be another
16:37iPhone and if you're you know credit
16:40card is a particularly sticky thing if
16:42you're getting your TV through it if
16:44you're getting your magazines through it
16:45if you're getting any other transit
16:48XYZ edge service anything that you can
16:50do that makes both makes the product
16:53better but also is something that's
16:55going to be kind of a pain in the
16:56backside to switch out and replace with
16:58something else all of that becomes
17:00valuable right which is of course
17:01exactly what everybody enterprise
17:03software does and why SAS is so
17:05interesting to them so it's no surprise
17:07that Apple is doing all of these things
17:08and it's this it is just this weird view
17:11of like Apple as a boom-bust company
17:13dependence on hit gadgets which isn't
17:16true all that much either but the thing
17:19to me about the card I found the card
17:21you know actually particularly
17:22innovative and then I love people like
17:25oh I you know you go to nerd wallet and
17:27you see all of these cards to do better
17:28points or better this and better than
17:30that you think it's like the people he
17:32said Dropbox isn't very innovative if
17:34you just go into your github and you can
17:36download 14 scripts and tie them
17:38together in order for things like even
17:39people who said that the way Apple did
17:41Wi-Fi hotspots wasn't innovative
17:43like underneath every what they're
17:45probably you know a very very small
17:48number of people at a very very smaller
17:52number of companies that understand all
17:54the complexity that could go into
17:55delivering Apple card that complexity
17:58Apple is is erasing like some very
18:01simple thing like you mentioned well if
18:03Apple can make the phone sticky when you
18:04get a new phone right this is exactly
18:06the kind of thing that they can do make
18:08it really easy to get a new phone even
18:10if all your credit card and money are
18:12sitting on your Apple your Apple device
18:14yeah and that upgrade is hugely valuable
18:17but on top of that there's all this
18:19innovation that happened in the space
18:21and yes you can go to nerd wallet and
18:22you could find some card that does you
18:25know 3% cashback on everything not just
18:27store purchases or you can find one that
18:29gives you better miles but anyone who
18:31knows any of these things knows that
18:33once you're on that game you're you're
18:35almost like the person who's determined
18:37to find everything you want to watch on
18:39off-air free TV but it's only there's
18:42people were only willing to spend so
18:43much effort for some of those you like
18:48well what coupons are very good for
18:50certain people at certain economics but
18:52like at some point like you're making a
18:54trade-off overtime versus versus effort
18:56and if you're an Apple customer you've
18:58already made that trade-off because your
19:00phone is a luxury good like you you
19:02didn't buy the $99 phone you bought the
19:04expensive one yeah so you're looking for
19:06other things and this is where another
19:09part of where people view these services
19:11they sort of get a little confused which
19:13is Apple first Apple off the top is not
19:16aiming for all five billion humans that
19:18will have a smart phone they've already
19:19said we're gonna only go we're not
19:21making super cheap phones that's not the
19:23billion right and on top of that they
19:27can do their services as a subset of
19:29those people like they already have
19:30everybody in the app store and then they
19:32have some very large percentage of
19:33people that will buy iCloud for backup
19:36and then after that they don't have to
19:39get 900 million people for every service
19:41and they can aspire to that and they can
19:43measure that but there's some point
19:46where it becomes a very good business
19:48and a very great value proposition even
19:50for people who don't have them to know
19:52that they can get them I think that kind
19:53of takes us onto the TV product where we
19:55sort of sort of slightly hesitant to
19:58the best way of putting it is to say
20:01with sort of reserving judgment on any
20:03kind of specifics because we don't have
20:05the specifics we know Apple Apple has
20:07officially said we're doing a TV service
20:09we're going to get a bunch of really
20:10great people to make some fantastic TV
20:12we'll tell you more later yeah yeah so
20:15that's TV plus you're sorry TV plus
20:17Apple will pay people in Hollywood to
20:19make 30 TV shows for them and they will
20:21tell us more in the autumn you can guess
20:23that it will be 10 15 dollars a month
20:26they've said it will be global or a
20:29hundred countries because they own the
20:30rights the big unanswered question is
20:34how much what like what actual volume of
20:36content because Netflix is spending
20:38something over ten million dollars right
20:39yeah how much are they going to make in
20:42there for how big will the proposition
20:43be how many of those great shows will
20:45there be that's kind of the big thing
20:46everyone wants to know and we don't and
20:50the thing is people were like ooh this
20:51is weird and stuff like this is what
20:53this is the power of being Apple is that
20:56you basically can convene all of these
20:58people they're willing to experiment the
20:59strategic level that one sees there is
21:01here again Apple is saying here is
21:04something good that you might like and
21:06you can pay a bit more money and get it
21:07on your Apple devices and that sits next
21:10to news it sits next to the card is
21:12Apple bringing something unique to
21:14credit cards no they're just changing
21:16the experience well and there's a bunch
21:18of integration I think the credit card
21:20is more innovative we're willing to say
21:22they focused on sort of the nerd wallet
21:23checklist as opposed to the security and
21:25the privacy and Apple engineering stuff
21:28going on in the cart yeah there's not
21:30apparent that there's a bunch of Apple
21:32engineering stuff going on on the TV but
21:34there's a bunch of Apple decision about
21:36what should you see and how does this
21:38make your overall being an Apple
21:40customer experience better right and if
21:42they can reduce the friction acquiring
21:45it of browsing it of suggesting what to
21:47watch and when I mean there's a whole
21:49lot of places where this is literally
21:52you know like the the Jim Barksdale
21:53famously said like there are two ways to
21:56make money in business you can either
21:57bundle things or unbundle them and so
21:59what we're seeing is a gradual creation
22:02of a series of bundles from Apple and
22:05yeah sure there might be Apple prime or
22:08down the road that bundles all of these
22:10into something but for the time being
22:12they don't need to in fact it's I would
22:14argue one of the things that people were
22:15jumping to us to have like this
22:17all-in-one but the fact that Apple is
22:19allowing them or keeping them separate
22:21is also a way to find product market fit
22:23for each of those yeah because you don't
22:25prematurely bundle things because then
22:27you really don't know if you're
22:28successful or not yes and this is what
22:30all the credit card companies sort of
22:31count on which is basically they're
22:34gonna make a giant basket of stuff and
22:35move it around all the time and most
22:37people only care about like one thing
22:39that they're yeah I mean theoretically
22:40Apple could say it is 200 bucks a month
22:44and you get a free iPhone and a free
22:46iPad every two years and you get all of
22:48this stuff yeah and yeah that would I
22:52don't think that would actually be a
22:53good proposition for most customers
22:55because you wouldn't get to pick and
22:56choose which bits and it would also be
22:58kind of a huge sticker price and it's
22:59much better to say well there's a phone
23:01and there's how you put a phone and then
23:02there are these bits that come that you
23:04can have on top of it and also the
23:05people who would jump at buying that
23:07probably would be spending $400 anyway
23:09and and so that's like one of the weird
23:12things when you do these mega bundles is
23:14you're also trading off the people who
23:16buy a new photo top-of-the-line iPhone
23:19access every year every year anyway
23:21every year and they would buy air pods
23:22and a whole bunch of other stuff and so
23:24and and so you know for me
23:27like there was just a lot of
23:28overthinking of of this whole thing and
23:31that's the constant challenge with Apple
23:34is you over in fact last night I tweeted
23:36that like when before the iPad came out
23:38we were all sitting around trying to
23:40figure out what they were gonna do and
23:41we for sure thought they were gonna go
23:43build a mac tablet with a pen which was
23:46just sort of our weird strategic about
23:49what they were gonna do not this very
23:50that's it kind of there's a sort of a
23:52high level point here which I think you
23:53said a couple of years ago that you know
23:55Microsoft would do some big event and
23:57then you look in the techno tech press
23:58and you discover what your brilliant dr.
24:00evil strategy was and you read it and
24:02you think oh that would be a good idea
24:03yeah you should do that and and and that
24:05people sort of you know there's I said
24:08earlier this like there's two sets of
24:10Apple strategy here there's there's
24:12needs in the TV app which are
24:13incremental improvement and then there's
24:15a credit card and the TV content which
24:17of all the bigger ambitions and you can
24:18kind of generalize that over any kind of
24:21you've got stuff for doing which is just
24:22VP's doing befit VP stuff and product
24:24teams doing product stuff and he'll just
24:26carry on doing it every now and then
24:27like you've got the huge mega strategy
24:28but very often you're just kind of
24:30carrying on doing what you're doing and
24:31I think a lot of what we saw was sort of
24:34Apple just kind of carrying on doing
24:35what they're doing some of its good some
24:36of it you can argue about some of it is
24:38a big mega future strategy some of it
24:40isn't and you can kind of and over and
24:42over you can kind of over rotate on that
24:44we've got to work and it is one of the
24:45things that Apple does particularly well
24:47is progressively reveal the strategy
24:50like take something like the Apple card
24:52and the Apple cache that's in it like
24:55Apple cache came out and everybody's
24:57like why would I ever use this what am I
24:58gonna do and then last week they just
25:00earlier in the week they made the change
25:01that now you can pay off your bills
25:03using a twitch now it's all starting to
25:06come together and it's this whole thing
25:06like I always think about keychain yes
25:08and how for years they were doing heat
25:11chain and then one day they have the
25:12fingerprint reader yes and it all comes
25:14together suddenly your fingerprint your
25:16passwords automatic yeah you can run
25:17your senomiya back so they start with a
25:19fingerprint reader before the year
25:21before they do Apple fate it's really
25:22obvious again if your Apple Bay but they
25:23do the fingerprint reader first and
25:25there is there's a reason that it's that
25:26then they had Apple pay then they have
25:28the cash down there at the card now you
25:31take the Apple card you get your 2% cash
25:33back on everything you spend and where
25:35does that money go well it goes into p2p
25:37payments using cash or he goes into the
25:39App Store and taking their
25:43family-friendly view of things well now
25:46you have like a credit card
25:47where the your son or daughter doesn't
25:49need the card can use it at a set number
25:52of places they have spending graphs they
25:53learn to spend you can give them cash
25:55allowance directly all of a sudden it's
25:57like the family friendly way to run
26:00finances and it's super interesting so
26:02sort of for me like there was just a lot
26:05more there and I think it just didn't
26:07have this big bang you know big
26:09companies - that you set a date and you
26:11have to do an event like you can't not
26:13do it and then you're you run around and
26:16like sure it when you're launching
26:17Hardware you know what we forgot to
26:19mention the game to say oh the game
26:20right the game thing is also the
26:21family-friendly piece right which is you
26:23pay the subscription you get these nice
26:25fun interesting indie games that are not
26:27about blowing people up and curated
26:31curated and drive it and are not about
26:34relating you to get you to spend more
26:35money on loot boxes and also about kind
26:39of trying to help the indie development
26:40develop a base a bit more which is
26:42obviously a challenge in this case iMac
26:48- oh yeah sue and pull people you know
26:51another way in which give there are
26:52better games on iOS in it than there are
26:53on Android yes and it's another $10
26:55thing and it's another piece of your
26:57brand experience and a reason why as a
26:58parent or something you might prefer to
27:00be on an iOS because you've got this
27:02great thing and again you wouldn't want
27:04to say well you have to have this but
27:06it's an interesting experiment for way
27:09of shifting what that gaming experience
27:10might look like that kind of fits into
27:12the Apple kind of branding and
27:13experience right and it also it shows
27:15that their their view of how these
27:17bundles work which is they they're
27:19confident enough in the value
27:21proposition of the phone itself that
27:24they're not bringing all these things in
27:26for free on the phone like it's very
27:27easy to see another company with a
27:30similar set of assets another strategy
27:32constantly worried about making the
27:34phone upgrade cycle work and drawing
27:36every bit of software that they make
27:38into the sort of the default phone
27:40experience and then a bunch of groups
27:42within the all the VPS as you said
27:43within the groups like competing over
27:45which percentage of the phone upgrades
27:47the their free thing calls yes and then
27:49it would be like you can only get the
27:50game subscription on the new iPhone
27:52right you have to buy the new you have
27:54to buy this product this was something
27:56Apple pioneered very early when they
27:58made upgrades to the Mac operating
28:00system free they realized that that
28:02turns out to be a better business if you
28:05just make owning of being part of the
28:07ecosystem great so for me I felt that
28:10there was just a lot of strategic and
28:13and hand-wringing and trying to find
28:16like the big thing when in fact this is
28:18a big company executing reasonably well
28:20on a bunch of stuff and some of it is
28:22gonna play out and some of it won't but
28:24the strategy is really clear and
28:26evidence is clear and then what I would
28:28call like the framework or the meta
28:30strategy of being family friendly and
28:32private it resonated across all the
28:34things that they did yeah I left
28:36thinking it was a pretty positive view
28:38for them in the sense of putting
28:40together a strategy and communicating it
28:43okay thank you thank you I'm Steve this
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