00:00hi and welcome to the a 16z podcast
00:02today's episode is based on an event
00:04with dr. Christine Darden one of the
00:06mathematicians hidden figures was based
00:08on in conversation with general partner
00:10Jeff Jordan about her career and
00:12experience at NASA and all the secrets
00:14of the sonic boom you were galvanized by
00:17Sputnik it was at 1957 yes I was a
00:20senior in high school when Sputnik went
00:22up and my job at high school was to get
00:26the collective morning newspaper and put
00:29it on the spindle in the library and I
00:31remember the day I went out and saw the
00:33headline of Sputnik and so I I can just
00:37remember what happened to the whole
00:38country after that all of us had gone
00:40through drills of hiding under our
00:42chairs at school because we were afraid
00:45of the Russians dropping a bomb the guy
00:49says they're up there and they'll be
00:50flying a bomb over us we were all
00:52worried about that and so the schools
00:54were galvanized the students were
00:56encouraged to go into stem courses and
00:59take them our yearbook had a had a solar
01:02system theme and we we did all of that
01:05because of Sputnik going up and so it
01:08was very much so and did that influence
01:10when you studied in college well not
01:14necessarily the Sputnik I I happen to
01:16have a geometry teacher that just made
01:19me fall in love with geometry and math
01:21and so that sort of sealed the deal that
01:24I wanted to go toward the math and
01:26physical sciences rather than biological
01:29sciences and that affected my decision
01:33not to go into math and physics and then
01:36with that you were kind of sound like
01:39you were in a path to become a teacher
01:41and then you got diverted by yeah well I
01:44was on the path to become a teacher I
01:46wanted to do what we said get a general
01:49studies job in math but my father said I
01:53want you to be able to get a job when
01:55you finish school and so you get a
01:57teacher certificate so I did do that and
02:00actually as electives I took the math
02:03courses I didn't I wouldn't have had to
02:05take as a teacher so I took all the rest
02:07of them as electives and then NASA's
02:11NASA's precursor was in a sea
02:13which started in 1917 yes 17 yeah and
02:17how did you find out about the
02:18opportunities I guess I really didn't I
02:22actually went back to school I taught
02:25for three years and I had gotten married
02:27and everything and my husband got a
02:29fellowship to go to to school to get a
02:32masters and I said well I need to get a
02:34job up there around the school I applied
02:37at several counties around the school in
02:39Virginia I got a letter from one asking
02:42for a letter of recommendation and my
02:45principal said I'll give you a letter of
02:47recommendation but I want your contract
02:48back I don't want to be looking for a
02:51good math teacher in August okay so I
02:53gave it back and I said I'll get this
02:55job and I never heard from him again but
02:58I had begun to take in-service classes
03:01at the same school where he was going
03:03and my teacher was the head of the math
03:05department there and so when I went up
03:07the next weekend I told him I was
03:10looking for a job and I needed a job and
03:12he says well let me take you across the
03:15hall to the head of the physics
03:16department he's looking for a research
03:18assistant in aerosol physics when I went
03:21home that night I had a research
03:23assistantship in aerosol physics okay
03:25and that I mean it was just wonderful
03:27and so that allowed me to get a master's
03:30degree in applied mathematics I did my
03:33research in the physics and when I
03:36graduated I went to the placement office
03:38just before I graduated and she said you
03:41should have come earlier NASA was here
03:43recruiting yesterday and I said I said I
03:46didn't even know about it she says well
03:48I tell you what you fill out the
03:50application and bring it back to me and
03:51I'll send it in and she did and I heard
03:54from NASA and three or four weeks
03:57what was the state of NASA when you got
04:00there both from the perspective of a
04:02african-american as well as a woman what
04:05was the environment actually it's
04:06amazing that the book portrays NASA is
04:09one of the most advanced and lightened
04:10employers in the area at the time so can
04:13you describe well there were there were
04:17no women supervisors to say maybe in
04:19human resources in some of those offices
04:22but in the engineering sections the
04:24women were typically the secretaries or
04:27the computers that were supporting some
04:29of the groups I went into a computer
04:32section which supported the reentry
04:34physics branch which was the branch that
04:37had done the calculations of getting the
04:39satellites back into the atmosphere
04:41but they had done all of that before I
04:43got there they had done all those
04:45calculations so they're there typically
04:47were not any females in the technical
04:50side in advances and everything in
04:53everything and this was black and white
04:55females yes and so it was a it was a
04:59predominantly male atmosphere and
05:05predominantly males who hadn't worked
05:07with women right okay yeah and I said it
05:11like that because as I was there longer
05:13and you began to see the young engineers
05:16come in who had been in school with
05:18women in engineering their attitude was
05:21entirely different over working with
05:23women yeah I think I read that in a
05:25little before you join in the early 60s
05:27there was low single-digit number of
05:29women and of any kind any race in
05:31engineering that's true only only a few
05:34so were your first impressions well of
05:37course I was excited at first I mean I'm
05:39working a job I'm working at NASA I
05:44didn't really know what I had been hired
05:46to do and then I realized you know that
05:49I was in a support role that the
05:51engineers would bring in equations we
05:53were to solve the equations and give
05:55them the answers and very often we
05:58didn't know what the equations were for
05:59in the first place nor what the answers
06:01meant right and I began to I began to
06:04find that unsatisfactory but that's the
06:07way it was and a few of them would
06:09explain what an equation was for but not
06:12all of them and so I think if I could
06:14get the sequence of events right you
06:16find yourself a couple years in there's
06:18some changes at NASA and you overhear
06:20that you might be subject to a riff a
06:23downsizing that is correct and that riff
06:26this was rescinded and so I but I did
06:29say well I'm going to go and I had
06:31already asked some of my immediate
06:33supervisors about moving into
06:35engineering but I decided to go to a
06:38higher level supervisor and so I went to
06:41you went yeah it was several levels up
06:44he was a director I asked I said well
06:48why is it that the men coming here with
06:50the same background I had degrees in
06:52mathematics or applied mathematics were
06:55put in engineering sections and able to
06:57work on their own projects and write
06:59their own papers and the females are put
07:01into computer sections which are support
07:03and you don't get promoted very much
07:06we're very well his response was that
07:08nobody had ever asked that question
07:10before and he also commented on the fact
07:14that so many of the women coming there
07:16to work actually found husbands there
07:19and then what got married and went home
07:20and that that that was you know that
07:24they don't want to waste money on women
07:26doing things like that but I told him
07:29that that probably was not true of the
07:31african-american women they would
07:33probably continue to work and I got
07:35transferred to an engineering section I
07:37got a promotion because I hadn't had a
07:39promotion in five years and in that RIF
07:42fest I was actually being bumped by
07:44somebody hired at the same time who had
07:46gotten promoted twice yeah so I got a
07:50satisfactory result out of that that
07:57would be a satisfactory result I agree
07:59with you one of your first assignments
08:00was to write a computer program for
08:03sonic boom you're in the sonic yeah
08:05first explain to large changers what a
08:10sonic boom is I told you that when I
08:15talked to students I explained it with a
08:18balloon and I say you've got a certain
08:21air pressure on your ear in this room
08:23but if I sat here and blew up the
08:25balloon the balloon is going up because
08:28the pressure in the air in the balloon
08:30is getting higher so if I pop the
08:34balloon there's a shockwave set up at
08:37this balloon going out in all directions
08:39at the speed of sound and it's got a
08:41higher pressure so when that shockwave
08:43gets to your ear it immediately jumps
08:46from a low pressure to a high pressure
08:48and that change in pressure that
08:51instantaneous change in pressure is what
08:54that's the pop of a balloon and when an
08:58airplane is traveling supersonically the
09:01same thing happens all of the the
09:04disturbances caused by that airplane
09:07going faster than the speed of sound of
09:09contained within a cone that's attached
09:13to the front of that airplane and this
09:15is like an ice cream cone in all
09:17directions and it is not only when the
09:21airplane goes through Mach 1 which means
09:23through the speed of sound it goes with
09:26that airplane the whole time it is
09:28flying faster than the speed of sound so
09:31if an airplane flew from California to
09:33Virginia that cone would go all the way
09:36from California to Virginia and that
09:38cone would intersect the ground all the
09:41way from California to Virginia so
09:43before the cone intersects the ground
09:46you are on the ground you are in that
09:49normal air pressure on the ground but
09:52exactly where it intersects the ground
09:54you you you suddenly get into that cone
09:57with the higher pressure and so that
10:00again is this instantaneous change in
10:02pressure and that's when you hear the
10:04sonic boom and the sonic boom it can be
10:08pretty bad it can be
10:10okay we're hoping that we can design it
10:13to be okay but it could dam it could
10:16break glass it could damage the
10:18sheetrock in a house and when they did a
10:20lot of flight tests in the 60s around
10:24Chicago and around Oklahoma City people
10:26were calling saying you know you broke
10:29my glass you cracked my sheetrock
10:31and so they could get paid for the
10:33damage to their houses and things and it
10:36was that during that time that this
10:38country actually passed a law that there
10:40could be no commercial supersonic flight
10:43over land and and so that is that that
10:47I'm not sure exactly when that was
10:49passed but that was a reason in the
10:53early 70s the United States Russia and
10:56the English and French were planning to
10:58build a supersonic passenger plane the
11:01United States cancelled their program
11:03and Boeing had to lay off a lot of
11:04engineers because they had hired up
11:07engineers to build a supersonic
11:09transport the English and French built
11:12theirs and it was called the Concorde
11:14the Russians built theirs it was the two
11:17you 144 and it had an accident at an
11:21airshow in France I believe and caught a
11:25fire and so the Russians never flew
11:27theirs as a passenger jet it flew only
11:30in Russia as a cargo cargo airplane I
11:33got one chance before Concord and if I
11:36remember right it would go subsonic over
11:39the land get over the ocean go
11:41supersonic and then I remember the
11:43landing in Washington Dulles Airport in
11:45Washington DC they were back to so that
11:48yeah because of the laws they could not
11:50fly in fact it at one time flew from
11:54Washington to Houston and that would be
11:56an entire leg of the journey
11:58subsonically very expensive though
12:01because the very high drag and the
12:03perfect the airplane was burning up lots
12:05of gas and doing that trip so so that is
12:10true the United States was not the only
12:12one that had the laws against supersonic
12:14flight it was many countries around the
12:16world in fact most countries around the
12:18world prohibited that and so the only
12:22legs that they could fly supersonically
12:25were over water and because they had
12:28didn't have people buying very many
12:30Conchords they only built 13 of them and
12:32so it did not make money it was very
12:35expensive to fly I think I called once
12:37and asked what were the price of a
12:39ticket back in the 70s and it was like
12:41$1,000 even back then and pretty
12:44expensive and and so the United States
12:48so so the lesson actually became if
12:50you're really going to have a profitable
12:53supersonic airplane it really needs to
12:55have some overland routes and so this is
12:58why working on the sonic boom became so
13:01very important in the early 70s and can
13:05we reduce this to a level where people
13:07in this room would say oh no I could
13:09live with that noise and it's not that
13:12bothering me at all and that's what we
13:14were working on when I got put on sonic
13:16boom work and so one of your first
13:18assignments was to take an
13:20well known equation and we had a system
13:23of equations this paper was he gave
13:26several governing equations that would
13:28give us minimum area that we would need
13:31for this airplane or minimizing area
13:34that would an area that would minimize
13:36the sonic boom and so I was able to
13:39complete that program it was a system of
13:41partial differential equations and that
13:43gave us the equivalent area that we
13:46wanted to design an airplane that was
13:51once the once the computer code was
13:54running then we would put in the Mach
13:56number the length of the airplane the
13:58weight of the airplane and I left that
14:02one there were four variables for the
14:05airplane and so if we wanted to design a
14:07minimum sonic boom plane it would give
14:10us the area so I and one of the guys who
14:14was working with me now
14:15sat down and started to design airplanes
14:18we started out with just a wing and a
14:20fuselage and we would calculate the
14:23volume of that airplane and get that
14:25area then we would calculate the lift of
14:28that airplane and the lift of course is
14:30generated mostly by the wings we would
14:32add those two together and compare it
14:34with the ideal and then we would of
14:37course be off and we would have to go
14:40back and change the design and route you
14:42know recalculate it and do it again
14:43until we got them very close together we
14:47said this is about as close as we can
14:49get it can a hand drawing that and then
14:52we took the design to the model makers
14:54and they built us five inch steel models
14:57that cost six or seven thousand dollars
15:00because they had to be very exact in
15:02thickness and everything and then we
15:04went to the wind tunnel to the tunnel
15:06and and tested the airplanes at the
15:09design Mach number whatever that was and
15:12you would we would measure the pressure
15:14inside that cone because that cone would
15:17hit the wall in the tunnel so we would
15:19put one of the pressure probes inside
15:21the cone the other pressure probe
15:22outside the cone and get the difference
15:25of that pressure jump when people would
15:27hear that sonic boom and we saw that the
15:30the theory looked like it was working I
15:33what we were trying to this is our
15:35experiment they said these equations
15:37were right we look like we're headed in
15:39the right direction and we started
15:41making our designs more realistic we put
15:44engines on the plane we've used twists
15:46and camber in the wings and things like
15:48that and then finally when we thought we
15:50had a good design we actually came out
15:52to California and actually by this time
15:56I think another company was helping with
15:58us we got two f5s from the military and
16:01we took just volume and changed the the
16:04volume of the area distribution of the
16:06airplane just using volume of the f5 of
16:09one f5 and then we flew a 2nd f5 with no
16:13we flew them out at Dryden Research
16:15Center down near LA and we measured that
16:20those signatures coming off of those two
16:22airplanes all the way to the ground
16:23first used in f-15s and then slower
16:26airplanes and maybe some balloons and
16:28then finally measuring on the ground and
16:30we were able to show that yes this
16:33theory is working we were getting a big
16:35n wave with the unmodified f5 but we
16:38could see the changes but where we had
16:40modified the f5 and folks was shouting
16:43shouting then like you saw him shouting
16:46in the control room when the shuttle
16:48came home and so this became your life's
16:56work I spent about 20 years working on
17:01that 20 years working and you progress
17:03throughout the in in the group you've
17:05progressed well we did we actually had
17:08we actually had a funding cut out during
17:11one period of this doing one of these
17:13periods and when we funding came back it
17:16was for the environmental portion of a
17:18high-speed civil transport well sonic
17:20boom was one of the environmental
17:22portions so they asked me to come back
17:24and get the program back together for
17:28the sonic boom and so I actually went
17:30all over the country looking for people
17:33who had worked in sonic boom and all the
17:36NASA centers at universities at Boeing
17:39at McDonnell Douglas and everything and
17:42they came back to NASA and up for like a
17:45three-day meeting for us to decide
17:47how should we approach you know this
17:50program now and we decided the design
17:53which we had been doing before was one
17:56way the second we needed to know what
17:58people would accept and so we started
18:01putting computers in people's houses and
18:04randomly playing sonic booms the
18:09computer was doing okay the computer was
18:12generating them randomly and then they
18:14were supposed to go back and give their
18:16immediate reaction to this on your own
18:18and then the third thing we were
18:21concerned about these airplanes are
18:23flying at 40 or 50 thousand feet what
18:26happens to that signal coming through
18:28the atmosphere forty or fifty thousand
18:30feet so we actually went down to White
18:32Sands and did some flight tests in the
18:35morning when the atmosphere was quiet
18:36and we would see what would happen and
18:39then in the afternoon when it heated up
18:41and there was a lot of turbulence in the
18:43atmosphere we so that was the third part
18:46you know what would the atmosphere due
18:47to this signal and so we launched into
18:50that program for the next few years
18:52actually looking at all three areas of
18:54that what did the atmosphere due to the
18:57sonic well the turbulence you could see
18:59you could see that you had more scatter
19:01in the signal but you could still see
19:03the effects of the shaping that we had
19:05in there you know you did this in a
19:10concerted way did you have other areas
19:11of specialization while you were
19:13actually I worked on SuperSonics doing
19:17doing some designing the flaps on
19:19supersonic airplanes for a while but it
19:22was mostly the sonic boom that I did and
19:24then at the end of my career I actually
19:26went into management when they were
19:29getting ready to cut the sonic boom
19:30funding again I applied for and got into
19:34a career development program and went
19:36into senior management and became the
19:39first how do you divide advise young
19:42scientists when striking a balance
19:44between specialization and generalizing
19:47more generalize approach well you know
19:51as mine was sort of depending on where I
19:53was assigned and very often that's what
19:55happens you you sort of come out of
19:57school with the general education you've
20:01Brown in the physics background but if
20:03you get assigned to a particular area
20:06you are actually supposed to go to a
20:08deeper level in that area and so that
20:10requires you to spend some time working
20:13to that deeper level and so we find that
20:16actually most of the people that we come
20:18to NASA once they started working in the
20:21engine area or the hypersonic engine
20:24area they spent their careers working in
20:26that area it wasn't a lot a lot of it so
20:28there was not nada not not a lot of
20:31lateral movement once you got there and
20:33and became known as an expert in a
20:35certain area yes so the NASA you left
20:38almost 40 years from when you joined how
20:42was it different you know we described
20:44the beginning state very few women
20:46engine women engineers very well by the
20:49time I left we had seen far more women
20:52coming in to come into the system and so
20:55we had had in the intermediate times we
20:59had had some females supervisors that
21:02had difficulty managing men who did not
21:04particularly like to work for women by
21:08the time I left we actually had a center
21:10director who is female and so women were
21:13pretty much working in in many many
21:16areas of the center about that yes we do
21:20we do which is fantastic you've had a
21:23very successful career
21:24you also have children grandchildren
21:27great-grandchildren how did you address
21:29the balance thing during your career
21:32that was that was pretty hard
21:34I actually actually thought of quitting
21:37my job at NASA when my last child was
21:39born and my mother told me well that's a
21:42really good job you have maybe you
21:45so I mean but I saw I had to deal with
21:49the babysitter's or the childcare
21:51centers and things like that and and
21:54during the summer it was very difficult
21:56because they would be out of school and
21:57I would be working and so that was
21:59difficult but I do know that I had
22:02opportunities to go to NASA headquarters
22:04earlier in my career and I would not do
22:08things like that because I didn't want
22:10my child I wouldn't leave her at home
22:12and by that time I think only the
22:15there and so I made sure I stayed at
22:19home and she wouldn't have to change
22:20schools or anything until I went to his
22:25the the the movie in the book hidden
22:27figures seems to have it's gotten a lot
22:30of praise but it seems a struck a chord
22:33and galvanize people why do you think
22:35that is well you know maybe I'm thinking
22:39that folks didn't realize that that what
22:41black women were working on at the time
22:43so they would work we were working on
22:45some pretty important topics and I think
22:48that's part of what is galvanizing and
22:51as far as our schools schools children
22:55maybe these are role models that they've
22:57never seen anywhere and we always say
23:00that people need to see somebody doing a
23:02job and I think maybe that said I think
23:05there are several lessons in that movie
23:08and all over the country people seem to
23:10be showing the movie to school students
23:13and saying look how these women work
23:16look how they do their jobs even though
23:18they're running into all of these
23:19problems of prejudice and things like
23:22that they're still doing their work and
23:23they're doing it well and so that's a
23:26lesson you need to learn I think the
23:28lesson of Dorothy bond saying look the
23:31job is getting ready to change and we're
23:33gonna lose our jobs if we don't learn to
23:35do something new I think that's an
23:38important lesson but smooth when
23:40computers were coming that's right
23:41computers are coming in they're gonna
23:43replace these human computers who are
23:45very much slower so she says I think you
23:48better learn how to do Fortran so that
23:51you can actually run the computer and
23:53not be would not be out of a job and and
23:56that's something that is happening
23:58everyday in our lives and so I think
24:01that's a very important lesson that
24:03people need to learn that's what's a lot
24:05of what Silicon Valley is oh absolutely
24:08we call them disruptive technologies so
24:14for you personally was there a moment
24:16when you felt like you no longer had to
24:21well I always felt like I had to do my
24:23job and do it well sure yes so so I
24:27don't remember thinking of it that way I
24:30did I didn't have to prove myself but
24:32that actually thought I was pretty well
24:35respected by the people I was working
24:37with and so while I wanted to do my job
24:40well I didn't think of it like I had to
24:42prove myself okay what advice would you
24:44have for the audience about advocating
24:47for your own career I mean you you you
24:49more than once had to kind of call
24:52attention yeah well that's true and I
24:55and I actually had decided if I did not
24:59get some action I was gonna quit at one
25:02point and go and teaching colleges which
25:04but I think you need to let people know
25:07what you what you want and what you're
25:09interested in and and I did that I did
25:12that on several levels and I wanted to
25:14go to school I did that and had to kind
25:17of get a higher boss to advocate for me
25:20to be able to take classes for this and
25:22so I think you need to let people know
25:24what it is you're interested in and
25:27maybe you would like to do something
25:28else but you also need to make sure
25:30you're doing your job very well where
25:32you are so that maybe they'll listen to
25:34you and maybe be favorable in
25:36transferring you to something else you'd
25:38like to do yep deliver you were you were
25:42friends with Katherine Johnson actually
25:44you you were classmates with her it was
25:50calculating the orbital reentry
25:54competing with the computers what
25:56lessons did you learn from her because I
25:58mean well she she's a very gracious
26:03person I think and she people like
26:07Katherine she's she's she's she's very
26:11gracious when I the first day I met her
26:14when I went into the church she went
26:16earch was over she walked from the choir
26:19all the way to the back to invite me to
26:21come join the choir and I think this
26:24might have been when I really met her
26:26it was some years after I had started
26:28working there but and she's very good at
26:31what she what she did of course in her
26:34mathematics and everything and so you
26:39know Margot kind of kind of couch to me
26:42as standing on the shoulders of these
26:44three ladies because if NASA had hired
26:47black females and they had not done the
26:50job well they probably would have
26:51stopped hiring them but the very fact
26:54that I got hired and the people with me
26:56got hired was because these folks had
26:58shown that we yes we do do the job and
27:01we do it well it hired any advance yes
27:03just recognize there's been a strong
27:06movement to focus more on science and
27:08math or stem some people say steam if
27:11you include the arts um how can all of
27:13us advocate towards education well one
27:16of the things I tell the young people is
27:18you know just we were talking about
27:20disruptive technologies and their
27:22articles that said most of high
27:24percentage of people have to change jobs
27:26at some point in their lives and if
27:29you've got the background of the math
27:31and science you have doubled the number
27:35of up options in which you're a
27:36possibility could get a job in if you
27:39have don't have that background you are
27:41have eliminated a lot of jobs and that's
27:43just for the people who don't
27:46necessarily want to be engineers or
27:47everything but the other thing is we
27:50need we need all of the engineers that
27:55are in school now who are not taking
27:58those those math and science courses
28:00those who have the capability to be
28:03engineers to keep our country ahead to
28:05fill the jobs in this country that all
28:07of these companies need and they're
28:09having to go overseas to get people to
28:11fill the job so we need those those
28:14folks in our country to actually be able
28:16to fill those jobs and so I think in
28:18both cases you've got a case that they
28:21need to take especially in high school
28:23if they don't want to go further but for
28:25those who can be engineers they need to
28:27go all the way so they can take those
28:28top jobs and the importance of education
28:31was something that would you your
28:32parents stress my parents stressed that
28:35they didn't have to talk about it yes I
28:37had four sisters and brothers who had
28:40what did they greet you at home with
28:42what was the phrase Oh what did you
28:44learn today yes my dad would always ask
28:46me that which is great I'm gonna ask a
28:49few more questions then we'll open it up
28:50the audience so I'm lightening round
28:52with a few closing reflections you
28:54talked a lot about curiosity and you
28:56said that you always encourage your
28:57children and grandchildren to maintain
28:59curiosity why does it matter to you so
29:02much well I think that what that makes
29:04us grow yeah I mean we want to know why
29:07something happens we so we dig deeper to
29:10find things out and I think that's the
29:13way we learn and I also like Darth
29:16Yvonne's quote in the movie learn
29:17everything you can and be valuable to
29:20somebody I thought that was a very key
29:23statement she made an inspiration who
29:25are your role models past and present
29:28well I think I think my family started
29:30my my parents and my sisters and
29:32brothers but then my math teachers and
29:35then at some level about your geometry
29:38yes my geometry teacher she definitely
29:41was one and then I had supervisors that
29:46I thought kind of inspired and helped me
29:48they they weren't they weren't
29:50necessarily official mentalists but they
29:54would just say things in conversation
29:56that was very good advice that I knew I
29:58should listen to and I tried to tell
30:01people that you need to listen to those
30:05kinds of statements you hear did did you
30:07mentor folks I certainly I certainly did
30:11I actually had a young intern at NASA
30:15one summer who had gotten put into a
30:18shop area and she came she said they
30:23showed me all the equipment and then you
30:25know I've seen it all and out now I'm
30:27just kind of standing around she was it
30:29was a materials and structures and so
30:32she kind of came over complaining I said
30:34well I do know a couple of people in
30:35that area maybe I'll call them but I
30:38said one of the things I would suggest
30:39you do all of the reports that are
30:42written at NASA they would put them on
30:44stands out in the hall so all of the
30:46reports that the people were working
30:47with were out there I said why don't you
30:50walk down that hall and just kind of
30:51look at the reports and see if you
30:53see one that interests you and read it
30:56and then go to the author and say that I
30:59just read your report and I'm really
31:00interested in this work and I'd like to
31:02know so and so on and I said and you
31:04know maybe you can find yourself working
31:06with him but let him know or ask him
31:09some questions about his work and don't
31:12just sit back and wait for something to
31:14happen and by the end of that summer her
31:16she and her mother came back and said
31:18they thought that was some of the best
31:20advice she had ever gotten that's great
31:22good and then the future you've had a
31:25front-row seat to some just amazing
31:27technology change and change what's the
31:30most in wildest most interesting thing
31:33that you think will come next or hope
31:36will come next er well I want to see us
31:40get back into space and to actually
31:42learn how to maneuver in space I think
31:45that's very important for all of us for
31:48for our planet I think we need to be
31:52able to do that and just like getting to
31:55kind of got this country focused on one
31:59thing years ago I think getting to
32:02either Mars or the asteroids or whatever
32:06it be I think we need something like
32:08that to ganar us again
32:09to make us really go after one thing and
32:12get it done we have been getting
32:14inundated with company space companies
32:17looking to do different you know
32:19different execution with that I would
32:21love to open it up for questions we have
32:23mics at both ends if if people please go
32:27I just want to first thank you for the
32:30work that you've done and the role model
32:32that you are and helping tell the story
32:35that meant a lot to me and to my mom and
32:37to my parents so thank you for that my
32:40question for you is about a two-fold one
32:43as a woman as a woman of color who was
32:46the first woman of color to be a manager
32:48you know what were your strategies in
32:50terms of managing people with different
32:52backgrounds than you and managing men
32:54like how did you navigate what I'm sure
32:56was a lot of resistance and what
32:57strategies with would you have for that
32:59and then my second part of the question
33:01would just be any reflections you have
33:03on how far have we come and how far we
33:05have yet to go when it comes to
33:07women and people of color in tech okay
33:11one of the things I guess my whole ethic
33:15of working with people is to treat them
33:17fairly and to to do that I do know that
33:21sometimes some of my co-workers we get
33:25upset about things but I would as long
33:28as I hadn't done anything wrong I didn't
33:31let that bother me and so I basically
33:33pretty much got along with the people
33:35that I worked with let's say the second
33:37question was that's how far have we come
33:43well of course as you get women women
33:48white or black in higher positions of
33:51course just the proximity of having them
33:53there and people getting used to working
33:56with you and knowing your abilities and
33:58everything so we so certainly we have
34:01come you know further in that arena
34:03we've had more black females move into
34:06management positions I think at Langley
34:08and so that has been progress but we
34:12still have don't have very many there so
34:15there's plenty of room for us to come
34:18further I just wanted to ask you the
34:21favorite physics equation or math
34:23theorem maybe an algorithm physics
34:26equation physics equation well the thing
34:29that governed almost everything we did
34:31and in aeronautics was an a via Stokes
34:34equations which were very very
34:37complicated but well they were the
34:45ultimate ultimate equations yes so uh so
34:49they were sort of the basis and they
34:51were simplified before we got the huge
34:53computers that we could solve them with
34:56numerically hi thanks for sharing with
34:59everybody you're very inspiring person I
35:01have a few questions about your research
35:03what happened to your program where
35:06people bothered by the sound on the
35:12okay I'd never got to that once once we
35:17once we proved the concept the next step
35:21was a Boeing or Gulfstream wanted the
35:26plane that we flew was just kind of a
35:28hacked up military airplane so it was
35:31not designed to be a supersonic airplane
35:33and so what they wanted to see was a
35:36design for an airplane a supersonic
35:39airplane and a low boom airplane in one
35:42plane that was fly at the design
35:45altitude everything and show that this
35:48generates an acceptable sonic boom so
35:51NASA this year is supposed to be
35:54building two explains one of them we're
35:58just getting the money yeah because
36:01because to build a full-scale airplane
36:04is pretty expensive but that was 1975
36:07you said okay well no it wasn't 75 when
36:11we the the year we did the flight that
36:15was the culminating activity was like -
36:17OH - mm - okay but it is very expensive
36:21to develop a full-scale airplane and so
36:24yes we're waiting on the funding and so
36:27I actually saw one of my past co-workers
36:30the other day and he says yeah we're in
36:32design review but the federal government
36:35is still on a continuing resolution so
36:37they don't even have 2017 s budget yet
36:40and they don't know if they're going to
36:42get what they'll get in 2018 so they're
36:45still waiting for this budget to build
36:48this airplane and fly it over all of you
36:54to see if you would say yes I could live
36:57with that and so we could build that
37:01airplane and have it fly over land how
37:04loud was the sound on the ground how
37:06loud I don't know in we were we were
37:09have always debated whether 1/2 PSF
37:11would be an acceptable level on the
37:14ground we were trying to get it to one
37:16level and it would not get any higher
37:18and so somewhere in that range it would
37:24be it would have been our gold and I'm
37:25not quite sure what this design they
37:27have now did you try mitigating the
37:30effects of the supersonic boom from not
37:34from you know changing the design of the
37:36plane but from you know sending out a
37:38different frequency that would
37:40destructively interfere there there
37:41there were several options of how to do
37:45this over the years different different
37:49inventors would come up with different
37:50ways of doing it and I believe that the
37:54consensus was most of them actually took
37:58more energy and more effort to try to do
38:01what was being doing to disrupt it than
38:03the just the design itself and and that
38:07turned out to be the chosen approach
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