00:00hi this is Chris Dixon this is the a 16z
00:02podcast today I'm here with Jonah
00:03Peretti the founder and CEO of BuzzFeed
00:06we announced I guess a few weeks ago now
00:09that we invested in BuzzFeed so we're
00:11very excited about that and thanks for
00:12being here thanks for having me I guess
00:14maybe you could start by just sort of
00:16for people that don't know explaining
00:18the premise of BuzzFeed why you started
00:21it yeah so the idea the idea behind
00:23BuzzFeed is that you know people still
00:25want to be informed and inspired and
00:28entertained and the media industry is
00:30always you know had that role but the
00:32way people consume media has really
00:33dramatically shifted in the last 10
00:35years with social mobile and digital
00:37video being becoming the dominant ways
00:40people consume media and so BuzzFeed
00:43really is a media company for the social
00:45mobile world so and so you know someone
00:48might say okay great people read stuff
00:50on their mobile phone now they click on
00:52stuff on Facebook but how does that
00:54really change what a media isn't a media
00:56company I mean a skeptic might say you
00:59know don't you still want to you know
01:01write the same kind of stuff you were
01:03writing before like how does that change
01:04what you do as a media company the fact
01:07that people consume it differently
01:08yes there's a lot of differences I mean
01:10from a business perspective there's
01:12differences in cost structure so you
01:14know printing and broadcast you don't
01:16have a trucks and we don't have timber
01:19interests and pulping mills and we don't
01:21we don't have to you know have
01:24satellites or you know cable networks or
01:27broadcast networks in the same way so so
01:30distribution is different but the
01:32biggest difference is that you get a
01:33tremendous amount of data back about
01:35what consumers are reading and what
01:37they're sharing and for us sharing has
01:39always been the the biggest metric
01:41because it shows someone thinks that a
01:43piece of content is worth passing on to
01:44a friend and so you've always had this
01:46word-of-mouth people watch a television
01:47show they really liked it they go tell
01:49their friend around the watercooler I
01:50really like this show but basically the
01:52distribution was was tied to these
01:55massive industrial er models and then
01:59you have a little word-of-mouth as extra
02:00and now it's been kind of inverted where
02:02the word of mouth is the distribution
02:04and and so you're getting so much data
02:07back about what people like and what
02:08people share and that can immediately
02:10inform the media you're creating so
02:12instead of just guessing
02:13and making something and hoping it's a
02:15hit you're you're able to be in a more
02:18direct relationship with with readers
02:20and what does that mean for how you work
02:22like does that mean that you see that
02:23people like some topic and then you
02:24write more about the topic does it mean
02:26you change the formatting the headlines
02:28like what is it what is it what is it in
02:31terms of how does the data translate
02:32into actions well it's it's the way to
02:35translate data into action is a huge
02:37part of what we do and what we think a
02:39lot about and it's it's not totally
02:41straightforward like you can you can use
02:44data to get people to click a headline
02:47but then not deliver on the story and
02:49that actually has a long-term negative
02:51effect and so and so some people use the
02:54data to optimize for the very short
02:55short term our goal is to use the data
02:57to understand on a deep level what kind
03:00of media people want to share and
03:02consume and and to have a bigger impact
03:04on people's lives and a positive impact
03:06on people's lives and forming them
03:08entertaining them inspiring them and so
03:10that means you have to have a more
03:12nuanced and skeptical view of what the
03:15data is telling you just because someone
03:17is clicking at a higher rate doesn't
03:18mean you're doing a good job just
03:20because someone sharing doesn't always
03:21always mean you're doing a good job and
03:24so we try to avoid local maximums and
03:27and and focus on on things that seem
03:31like more meaningful long-term signals
03:32so one line of argument today is that
03:37media companies like news news
03:40organizations in particular had kind of
03:41or printed news had local monopolies in
03:45the past and that created very good
03:46businesses for them so the New York
03:49Times or whatever the local New Jersey
03:51newspaper or something and that now with
03:54the internet that's destroyed these
03:55geographic boundaries and some people
03:58think has destroyed the economics of
04:00that of the news business yeah you know
04:05obviously you don't think that like how
04:07do you you know how do you create a
04:09dominant news company in the modern era
04:12and what are the barriers to entry yes
04:15so there used to be local there used to
04:18be low-key graphic based monopolies and
04:20spectrum based monopolies so if you were
04:22one of the three television networks you
04:24know you had a huge advantage in that
04:26there was only two competitors and you
04:27had a slot on the dial or with radio you
04:31know they both had spectrum monopolies
04:33and and local monopolies and so what
04:36happened is if you got an early start in
04:38the beginning of radio or television or
04:40newspapers and you you amassed a big
04:43enough audience in a local market it
04:44became very hard for anyone to compete
04:46with you because you already had the the
04:49big printing press and the trucks and
04:51then you had a lot of good editors and
04:53reporters and so then you'd attract more
04:54editors and reporters and it would be
04:56came very difficult for someone else to
04:57like create another newspaper and the
05:00argument is on the internet that's not
05:01true and there's a million blogs and
05:03everyone's on equal footing and and so
05:05you can never build a a defensible
05:07business and you can never generate
05:09great profits and that this is a
05:11terrible thing for the news industry and
05:13I mean it's funny actually when you hear
05:15people say it's a terrible thing for the
05:16news industry because they're saying we
05:17need these monopolies that are
05:18impossible to compete with and that's
05:20what's good for society um and and you
05:23know it it actually is much more
05:27complicated than that and in fact I
05:30think when you look at the at the way
05:32that technology can provide competitive
05:34advantage for companies today and it's
05:36it's actually makes it that in some ways
05:40different but bigger barriers to entry
05:42having a site that runs quickly having
05:45an advertising model that works on
05:46mobile having a good data science team
05:51that can give you better insights in
05:52terms of what people are sharing and
05:54what people are engaging with certain
05:56network properties once you have a
05:59certain level of scale there's there's
06:02things like preferential attachment and
06:05network theory that that suggests that
06:07it becomes easier to to to reach an
06:11audience and so all those things
06:12together people I don't think understand
06:14very well but it does make it possible
06:15to build a defensible business and
06:17that's why we've been able to grow so
06:19quickly generate profits and in while
06:22simultaneously investing in foreign
06:25investigative news team and other things
06:28that people thought weren't possible for
06:29Internet companies to invest in many
06:31other obviously the big change is that
06:32the addressable market is now there are
06:35I think the last numbers I saw two and a
06:37half billion people was Internet
06:39connected smartphones that number a lot
06:41of people think is going to 5 billion
06:43very soon which is which is you know 200
06:47X what the scale that a media company in
06:50the past could have reached all right I
06:52mean yeah even if you assume the margins
06:54let's say drop you know by let's say 3x
06:58or 5x if the scale of the opportunity
07:00goes up 100x it's more than compensated
07:03for yeah people misunderstand that piece
07:05a lot to where they look at particularly
07:08companies that have print publications
07:10and then they go online and they're like
07:11they had 2 million subscribers in print
07:13and they generated that this much
07:14revenue and now they have 20 million or
07:1730 million and they're generating the
07:18same revenue from that that they did
07:20from the two million print therefore
07:21print monetized as well and the internet
07:23doesn't and what they're missing is that
07:25it's it's actually possible to reach a
07:27much larger audience and and if well the
07:302 million were sitting down and reading
07:32it for an hour in the morning the 20
07:33million it's there like unique visitors
07:36which means somebody might have passed
07:37through and read a paragraph in the
07:39entire month right and not they're not
07:41commensurate measure so yes for sure so
07:44so they're not the same and also it's
07:46possible to reach more people than ever
07:47before and so even if they did if even
07:49if even if things were monetized at a
07:51lower rate the fact that you're able to
07:53reach 100x people more people means that
07:55you can build a really big business so
07:57you see some really interesting stuff
07:58you've always you know I've always gone
08:00to you to get little insights into
08:02social networks and things because you
08:03as a content creator sit on the cutting
08:07edge of this and see you know the rise
08:10of Pinterest and whatsapp and all sorts
08:12of other interesting things can you talk
08:14a little about that you even go so far
08:15as to organize BuzzFeed right according
08:18to which which social network the
08:21content is is creative for yeah so so we
08:25see the social networks almost like the
08:28new cable networks and we're the new you
08:30know MTV or CNN where we're making
08:32content for these these networks and and
08:34the you know this kind of gets back to
08:37we're talking about earlier but the way
08:38the way you make content changes
08:40depending on the distribution so when
08:41CNN started making making there wasn't
08:4524-hour cable news and that was a
08:47different kind of media that was only
08:49possible because of cable and doing
08:51something in half hour evening news is
08:52very different than 24 you don't just do
08:56the half hour over and over you do
08:57something very different yes and you can
08:59do things like go live and follow a
09:01story and you don't have to break in so
09:03there's a whole bunch of different
09:04things you can do that that gave them an
09:07advantage because they understood that
09:09cable was different than broadcast with
09:11the internet it's even with social and
09:13mobile and digital video it's even
09:15bigger changes where understanding
09:16understanding how these different
09:17platforms work give you a huge advantage
09:21and we are continually trying to learn
09:24how to make content that really is
09:26native for these platforms people think
09:28BuzzFeed does you know native
09:29advertising for BuzzFeed we actually do
09:31native advertising for other social
09:32platforms for Facebook or Pinterest or
09:34you know the the mobile web the social
09:38web and so we're constantly learning
09:40trying to understand and learn what how
09:43do people consume media in different
09:44contexts on different platforms and so
09:47we you know I've been shocked that that
09:51our video consumption we did 400 million
09:54video views last month and about half as
09:56mobile like I thought video wouldn't be
09:58as big on mobile just because they're
10:00sound in a smaller screen and really
10:02mobile has sucked up lots of video
10:04consumption the same for long-form we at
10:07a 6,000 word piece where the average
10:09time reading it was 22 minutes on on
10:11mobile and so people are sitting on
10:15their couch and the phone is good enough
10:17for them to read the long-form article
10:19and even though they probably could get
10:21up and get their laptop or or a an iPad
10:25or something they're the the effort of
10:27getting up isn't worth it when your
10:28phone is pretty nice started reading
10:30books I actually got the Steve Jobs book
10:32for example when it came out whatever it
10:33was two years ago I read the whole thing
10:35on my iPhone you get used to it pretty
10:38quickly and I didn't expect it and it's
10:41the convenience of being able to like
10:43you get in the car and you can still
10:44read or whatever you know yeah for sure
10:47except for the screen so you get used to
10:49the screen size - yeah the other thing
10:52that surprises a lot of people is that
10:53Pinterest sends double the traffic to
10:55BuzzFeed as as Twitter a lot of people
10:57don't because you do you have a big DIY
10:58section you'll have a recipe with a
11:00photo yeah we had this clean-living
11:02challenge which was 30-day recipes
11:06original recipes breakfast lunch and
11:07dinner for 30 days we've had over two
11:09and a half million people read that and
11:11the vast majority of that is coming from
11:14Pinterest and you do things like do the
11:16lists tell me if I'm wrong like some of
11:19the lists in the DIY section you can pin
11:21just one of the items as example right
11:23as opposed to pinning the whole list
11:24yeah you can pin an individual item and
11:26then also we make these title cards for
11:28for longer articles that are very
11:30Pinterest friendly that that let you
11:32know there's more so people on Pinterest
11:34can say oh this is a recipe and I can
11:36click to get the full recipe it was
11:38funny I was reading the New York Times
11:39the other day and it was like the
11:40weekend one and they had a thing on like
11:42summer you know summer salad recipes or
11:45something and I read it and it was sort
11:47of like basically they went through and
11:49listed five summer recipes but they did
11:50it in prose format the way the New York
11:52Times does you know you think about you
11:55can do it like what one question B blog
11:56people associate BuzzFeed lists and
11:59listicles and and you know why do you
12:01like lists um but I think one tell me if
12:02I'm wrong but one reason is you can take
12:04the different if it's you know as
12:05opposed to prose you can take the
12:06different parts share them separately
12:08discuss them separately on Facebook it's
12:10a much more sort of social format
12:12yeah and also a more mobile format
12:15because slideshows were pretty dominant
12:18which would game CPM advertising and and
12:20would their slide shows are just
12:23particularly mobile very difficult like
12:25with with a list you can just with one
12:26motion you can slide through yeah and
12:29then also you know when you're done with
12:30the story you know how many how what
12:32you're getting into you could skip
12:34things that are boring to you and go to
12:35the things that are interesting to you
12:37but it's not that we have any religion
12:39about around lists I mean we we really
12:42don't see ourselves as a company that is
12:44wedded to any particular format and
12:46what's so exciting about not having a
12:49legacy business is that is that we're
12:53not tied to the constraints of any
12:56particular medium and so I think when
12:59you look at even the first generation of
13:01online media companies they they tend
13:04to mimic print even though they didn't
13:05have to sew articles tend to be the same
13:07length as as newspaper articles or
13:09someone as they do a long one which is
13:11like a magazine article and you know
13:13video tended you know to you know to to
13:16to sort of mimic television with like
13:19Hulu and Netflix where that's kind of
13:21looking like more like television and
13:22what's what's interesting to me is that
13:26none of those things are predetermined
13:28or but when you're making media for the
13:31web so you can make a list you can make
13:33a quiz you can do something super short
13:34you can do something super long you can
13:36do little slighty things that we started
13:37doing recently where you can you can
13:39slide between two images and compare
13:41them and and then we can keep tweaking
13:46and changing the formats to figure out
13:49new new ways of communicating that don't
13:52don't that aren't constrained in the
13:53same way that they were with with this
13:55very standardized industrial media
13:57distribution and so I think that is
14:00gonna be a really exciting thing looking
14:01back you know ten years from now when
14:03you say oh look at all the different
14:04forms of media that emerged you know and
14:06that's funny what people people really
14:08they get so accustomed to certain things
14:10and that becomes that becomes okay so
14:13for example you know you have horoscopes
14:15and you know dating columnist and advice
14:19columnist and crosswords and those are
14:21all of course little games and
14:22diversions and comics and things like
14:23this or you know and yet because those
14:26have existed newspapers for you know
14:28decades it's considered okay but they're
14:32I know you have slidy things and lists
14:35and everything else and because it's new
14:36it's like oh god the web is destroying
14:38Western culture yes so we sometimes get
14:41get criticized for things and and the
14:44argument goes along lines of how can I
14:47take you seriously if you have a slight
14:49ething on your site or if you have a
14:50list or quiz and yet when you look
14:52across all traditional media there's
14:54always been a mix of serious things and
14:56crosswords and cartoons and things like
14:58that but when things are new they they
15:00stand out more they stand out more for
15:02sure let's talk about native advertising
15:04you call it branded content just can you
15:06describe what that means to you first I
15:08guess and yeah I mean back to my
15:10previous company which was the
15:11Huffington Post we we I didn't know
15:13anything about advertise and you deter
15:16and when we first launched and we did
15:18all this tech development in to build
15:19the platform for Huffington Post so the
15:21editors would use and they had all these
15:22special tools and all these things that
15:24they could do and the advertisers would
15:27come to us and they would just get
15:28banners so all our tech development did
15:30not go did not benefit us as a business
15:32at all and at BuzzFeed I wanted to avoid
15:35that where I wanted one unified platform
15:38for distributing media and that unified
15:41platform could be used for news it could
15:42be used for entertainment it could be
15:44used for branded content and then we
15:46still created separate teams to you know
15:49separate team works on the advertising
15:51then works on editorial but they get the
15:53benefit of the data science and all the
15:54cool formats and all the different
15:56innovation we're doing on the platform
15:57side and so the idea was to do really
16:00what Google did with their product which
16:03is make the advertising a version of the
16:06editorial product where where it's
16:08powered by the same thing but have a
16:10church-state separation so the organic
16:12search results are relevant results for
16:15a keyword query and the branded results
16:19are relative versus the critical thing
16:22to understand is that Google ads are
16:25relevant in the sense that they relate
16:26to what you search for but they're not
16:29about tricking the user they're clearly
16:32marked and now of course when they first
16:34start off people didn't fully on it I
16:36mean it said sponsor but didn't fully
16:37understand now over it takes years and
16:39people get trained and they understand
16:40they're separate but for the most part
16:42like I click on Google ads all the time
16:43they're actually really relevant if it
16:44turns out that an auction is a good way
16:46to get relevant content to a keyword in
16:48addition to your algorithmic results yep
16:51and similarly like your in your case
16:53it's not you're not trying to be
16:54relevant you're trying to be compelling
16:55right with entertaining lists and videos
16:57and things like this I don't know I
17:00think it's funny like people people in
17:02Silicon Valley a very widespread adage
17:06is to make things that people want yeah
17:08and yet somehow when it comes to
17:09monetization that they forget that and
17:13they put up a teeth-whitening banner ad
17:14you know or whatever these really but
17:17for the most part I think is is is it
17:18one of the you know is a is a very poor
17:21experience is that is the banner ad kind
17:23of monetization layer of the web yeah I
17:25think part of the part of the reason
17:27that that Silicon Valley sometimes has
17:29that they're so allergic to to ever
17:31paint anyone to create content you know
17:33just because the holy grail is is this
17:37purely scalable business where nobody is
17:39actually making content you're just
17:41making the the platform entirely and so
17:43as a result you end up with some third
17:46party making tea teeth whitening ads and
17:48pumping them for your platform and then
17:50you kind of do a policy level of saying
17:52oh we're gonna have some ad quality
17:53control or whatever and you try to limit
17:55it at BuzzFeed we say we'll do a full
17:58stack of helping the brand make
18:00compelling branded content and they
18:01often want to do things that aren't good
18:03for the user and art in their own
18:05self-interest and would be bad for the
18:07BuzzFeed site and bad for them as a
18:08brand and we tell them don't do that
18:10here we'll help you do something better
18:11and I think in a way it kind of goes
18:14back to you know the magazine like Vogue
18:18has really great editorial fashion
18:20photography and then really great
18:22branded fashion photography and if you
18:23ripped all the ads out the magazine
18:25would be worst magazine and the the
18:27branded content actually in the
18:28advertising actually adds to the product
18:30and that's a really high goal you know
18:33the super bowl's kind of another example
18:34people use like the ads actually add to
18:36the entertainment value of the superbowl
18:38and so he's the original native
18:39advertising right or at least at least
18:41one of the original ones right because
18:44the ads are compelling they're the same
18:46format they're video you know 30-second
18:48whatever videos yeah for sure
18:51I mean it's it's not it just it just
18:55feels like a historical anomaly that you
18:57had this weird fish and fowl kind of
18:59thing on the web where banner ads look
19:01didn't looked and feel and worked
19:03totally different than the rest of the
19:05content on the site and just felt bolted
19:07on and and it's in my view at least and
19:11I don't know if you agree it the decline
19:13of that very bad business model is going
19:16to accelerate on mobile because on
19:18mobile you simply can't fit all that
19:19stuff it's a terrible it's even a worse
19:21experience I would wager when you look
19:24at the click-through rates on mobile
19:26banner ads it's probably asked mostly
19:28accidental clicks it's like point 2
19:30percent or something and a lot of its
19:32like fat finger kind of stuff yeah so
19:34basically it's just not working and it's
19:36going to collapse very soon and then
19:38you're left with either what are you
19:40left with you're left with a paywall
19:42the New York Times in the journal or you
19:44know and other and ft maybe you're
19:45experimenting with there's some other
19:47experiments going on with like
19:48crowdfunding and things and then there's
19:49native advertising and that's it yeah or
19:52hope a billionaire buys your your
19:54newspaper because that those are the
19:55only models I think yeah and the paywall
19:57model is unfortunate when you think
20:00about news being in the public interest
20:03yeah where you know every time there's
20:04really serious news news they have to
20:07take a paywall down you know but you
20:09know the rest of the time it doesn't
20:10matter but yeah I mean if your news if
20:12news matters you want it to be out there
20:14and you know by the way like you know
20:17we're not even selling in terms in Jason
20:19see the same way that the traditional
20:21media has so you can have branded
20:23content that finds its own audience and
20:25and that doesn't even doesn't even
20:27necessarily ride along with news content
20:30so everything is kind of unbundling and
20:32spreading along these social networks
20:33and ideally with great technology and
20:36great content everything is reaching the
20:37audience that it should reach
20:38unfortunate has been a few very
20:40high-profile bad attempts as you need of
20:42advertising like these advertorial kind
20:44of things which I think somehow have
20:46become synonymous and some people's
20:48minds with native advertising but I
20:50think that'll change very quickly yeah I
20:54mean we find sometimes people
20:57criticizing BuzzFeed are actually
20:59criticizing someone whose coffee and
21:00BuzzFeed which is frustrating what so so
21:02the next couple years what are you most
21:04excited about there's so much be excited
21:08about so so video you know is some is an
21:13area that that has just exploded for us
21:15we didn't have a video business two
21:16years with just very high-level explain
21:18why you know we're hearing video more
21:20and more in Silicon Valley and just
21:22generally on the web like what is it
21:24just the transition from TV like why
21:26video well for us I was I I have been a
21:30frustrated with video for years and I've
21:33been frustrated with it because you we
21:34haven't found a way to do the rapid
21:37creation of content and then constant
21:39learning from the audience and that's
21:41something you could do with text because
21:42it was cheaper to do and and so you
21:44could make more content more quickly you
21:47could like play more hands of Poker or I
21:48don't know what the right metaphor is um
21:50and video was so expensive that it was
21:53difficult to to try ideas
21:56experiment and say Frank our our
22:00president BuzzFeed motion pictures you
22:02know he he joined through an acquisition
22:04of a small startup company and he went
22:06from four people to a hundred people and
22:08build it built out a really tremendous
22:11team that has figured out how to make
22:14video production much more web web
22:16friendly than ever before so we have a
22:18studio lot in Los Angeles that's a four
22:21acre studio a lot we were built we've
22:22built out sets for all different kinds
22:24of scenarios so a school an office a
22:28cafe a dungeon you know whatever you
22:30want and then we have a team that can
22:32that brainstorms ideas for concepts they
22:34want to do and then quickly can shoot
22:36videos release them and then learn from
22:38how how people respond everything from
22:40Facebook and YouTube comments and
22:42sharing and and and you know how many
22:45views it gets but also the way people
22:47engage with it and then learn from that
22:49and then immediately go back and make
22:50something else and so it's become all we
22:53have the the fixed cost of our studio
22:55already spent and then the variable cost
22:58is almost nothing so it flips the
22:59Hollywood model where nobody you know
23:02the studio lots of essentially become
23:03banks and and they will greenlight a
23:06project and 100 million dollars will be
23:08spent to to make a film and then people
23:10come from all over make the film and
23:12then they disperse and there's no
23:13learning and they go off to you know
23:15their separate ways after the project's
23:16done we've been able to figure out a way
23:18to flip that so that we can try lots of
23:19ideas experiment and learn through time
23:21and that's one reason why I'm super
23:24excited about video the other is
23:25Facebook video mobile video view
23:28consumption all these sort of trends are
23:30starting to converge where social mobile
23:31and video are really converging and it
23:33allows us to reach a much larger
23:34audience with the video that we're
23:36creating so video is really exciting
23:38International is exciting
23:40we were one of the biggest sites in the
23:42UK now and and have the the if you if
23:46you want to see what the UK's site is
23:48like there's a you can toggle and look
23:49at the UK version it's like I look at in
23:51rugby and we don't we don't do so much
23:54it's a little it's a little smarter a
23:57little snarky err the sense of humor is
23:59a little different but I really like
24:01love the British the British sight and
24:03we're opening up other offices
24:05and and what else I don't know there's a
24:10lot you know a lot of tech things and
24:12data science things that are exciting
24:14we're starting to really be able to map
24:15out how content spreads a cost across
24:18networks so one of the things that's
24:20there's kind of blind spot for social
24:22networks which is that they have huge
24:23amounts of data they have huge number of
24:25logged in users but they're only seen
24:26sharing within their network and what
24:28ends up happening is sharing within
24:30their network is heavily influenced by
24:32sharing that happens outside their
24:33network that they don't even see you
24:35know so if something is blowing up on on
24:37Facebook they may not realize that a lot
24:39of the people sharing it are discovering
24:42it on Pinterest or discovering on
24:43Twitter and then sharing the content to
24:44discover on one network with another one
24:46of the few people with the scale and the
24:48cross network reach to see that yeah so
24:50we can start to see oh we're actually
24:52able to understand how how something
24:55taking off on one network bleeds over to
24:57another network often Facebook's a
24:59beneficiary of it something will you
25:01know take off on on a social network and
25:03then quickly start to be bigger on
25:07Facebook than it was on the original
25:08place where it took off but but that
25:10kind of cross network sharing where
25:11you're really looking at social networks
25:13that not not a social network in the
25:17sense of a tech company the social
25:18network but the actual human social
25:19network of sharing that goes across many
25:21networks so that's another interesting
25:23area where I think both for making
25:26content that is better quality so you're
25:29not ever looking at one social network
25:31as the as the arbiter of quality because
25:34if you do that you might be there might
25:36be a quirk in an algorithm or a flaw on
25:38a social network but if someone is
25:40sharing it across three or four you
25:41actually realize okay this is this is
25:43something that people like in different
25:45contexts so it's a stronger quality
25:47signal so it allows us to make better
25:48content but it also is powerful for
25:51advertisers when they're making content
25:53they they want to you know understand
25:55how their content is spreading between
25:57different networks okay great
26:00we're out of time thanks for thanks for
26:02chatting all right thanks
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