00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland and I sit here with Steven
00:05Sinofsky and Benedict Evans and in the
00:07room are two brand new tablets and
00:10Steven I can't help but notice yours is
00:13the brand spanking new iPad pro the
00:16smaller version and you've covered it in
00:18stickers I broke with tradition because
00:22there was always this weird thing that
00:23like on Macs laptops everybody puts
00:26stickers but you never see stickers on
00:28an iPad this is tweeted many times and
00:30so the first thing I did was like this
00:32is a real up top replacement for me and
00:34so I put stickers on it
00:36and so good news I work with product on
00:38buildings filled with stickers
00:41I see yoga stickers I see producthunt
00:45stickers of course and some California
00:48joints on there too yeah and I also the
00:50the I put the Apple completely upside
00:52down because it's a historical reference
00:56because the Apple is faced sideways so I
01:00put the sticker on it like just
01:01completely upside down how can you say
01:03it's a laptop replacement for you
01:04already well that's it is that's
01:07important because normally when Ben and
01:08I have these discussions over the course
01:10of hallway we wait like a month to
01:12really draw a conclusion but we have a
01:14lot of game film on the iPad right and
01:17but what was missing was actually just a
01:20faster one and the Apple keyboard right
01:24and so now that we have all of those
01:26parts we're able to now I'm trying a
01:29different keyboard out today but like
01:30but we're able to really think about it
01:32and it didn't take long before it's a
01:34lot I like literally this is the only
01:36thing I've carried all week I have no I
01:38haven't missed my macbook I haven't
01:40missed my PC laptop I have made slides
01:43I've worked on spreadsheets I've written
01:45a blog post I've used apps I've used the
01:48browser like it's a hundred percent just
01:51replaced my workflow so it's replaced
01:54and Benedict time we talked about this
01:55little because I was jealous of your
01:57iPad pro and you got it it's replaced it
01:59but it's also different right so it
02:00hasn't supplanted it in those sort of
02:02like one for one it's something else
02:04well so there's a layer of difference so
02:06I'm just picking up on what Stephen said
02:08there's a observation that the CPU in
02:14if has roughly a thousand times more
02:16transistors than a Pentium from back in
02:171995 and if you're kind of a pedantic
02:20semiconductor engineer you can argue
02:21about whether that's comfortable or not
02:22but kind of directionally that tells you
02:24something about what's happened to the
02:25computing power and say you could almost
02:27almost be looking at this and thinking
02:28okay Windows Mac iOS in terms of it's a
02:32different operating system that you use
02:34on a large screen but that you can do
02:36lots of stuff on and there's a bunch of
02:37stuff that works differently and
02:39obviously the difference between iOS and
02:42Windows and Mac and iOS is bigger than
02:44the difference between Windows and Mac
02:46but it still sort of sits somewhere in
02:48that way of thinking about things that I
02:50care there's a bunch of stuff you can do
02:51on it that's the same there's a bunch of
02:52stuff that you can do that you do
02:54differently there's a bunch of stuff
02:55that was easier to do on that and
02:57there's a bunch of stuff that's easier
02:58to do on this one it's actually almost a
03:00little bit like you know if you've got a
03:01laptop but then you're sometimes you
03:03want to go to a computer with a big
03:04screen if you want to like edit some
03:06video or do a really big spreadsheet or
03:07do something we have an enormous screen
03:09your laptop with sort of you you kind of
03:12feel the need to have that just in case
03:13every now and then there's something
03:15that's going to be easier and it's kind
03:17of the same on where the tablet that
03:19there's some stuff that's easier to do
03:21on a hold fashion PC for me I mean I
03:26tweeted that I'm kind of 90% there on
03:28this the gap for me is doing chops in
03:33PowerPoint and so I mean if anyone's
03:35seen the presentation as I post I said
03:37put a lot of effort into making them all
03:39carefully formatted and Microsoft
03:42haven't yet built the charting module
03:43for office for iPad so you can you can
03:45look at it but you can't create charts
03:46from screen yeah a little bit like you
03:49can change the numbers and some but you
03:50can't like create a new chart but that's
03:52yeah that will come yeah I mean that and
03:55that's a relatively small part of what I
03:57do every day and then everything else I
03:59do every day I can actually do exactly
04:01the same but differently that's that's
04:03actually the thing that I noticed right
04:05away with with what I did is I I
04:07purposely didn't like when I first came
04:09out though reviews were all it's like
04:11iPhone just a little bit bigger right it
04:13was like a big iPhone right and so one
04:15of the things that's really changed in
04:17the course of that and particularly with
04:18the the iOS 9 3 and the
04:21the split-screen multitasking
04:22split-screen multitasking and the
04:24keyboard so now what I did is I didn't
04:27just automatically use my backup image
04:29from my phone and have all of my phone
04:33you know the iPad versions what I did is
04:34I picked the apps that are focused on on
04:37productivity and I left all of the the
04:40apps like for for doing open table and
04:43getting a lift and all of those things
04:44are still only on my phone and so it so
04:47it's not your phone it's not your
04:49MacBook Air either or your MacBook it's
04:52it's it's own thing but it's its own
04:54thing but it caught up in all of the
04:57work I need to and then it's some of the
04:58stuff it's just better like I really use
05:01the slack app a lot and so now I have
05:03this not just the slack app like I do on
05:05my phone but it's it's a landscape
05:07oriented I see more stuff on the screen
05:09if I wanted to type like a big thing
05:12it's super easy and I don't have to kind
05:14I can share the link but I don't feel
05:16like writing a note now because you know
05:17I'm standing up and running and so it it
05:20totally I'm you know like the the moment
05:22for me was I wrote a blog post this week
05:25and it was like 40 pictures you know
05:28pasted from all over the net and some
05:29photos of mine and and I wrote the whole
05:31thing in the medium app just it and that
05:35whole flow the thing was it was a little
05:37bit different like the normal flow that
05:39you would have used it is like save all
05:41the photos to a temp folder and then
05:43just drag them all at once into an
05:45editor this you kind of you kind of have
05:47to invert things and it reminded me very
05:48much of my first transition to Windows
05:51because in the DOS world nobody
05:53remembers this of course but in the DOS
05:54world you you used to say what you
05:57wanted to do and then point at the text
05:59on the screen that you wanted to do that
06:00thing to write so you ended up like
06:02saying I want to make bold and then you
06:06go and point to the bold stuff and then
06:08windows came out and arbitrarily you
06:10selected it with a mouse and then hit
06:11bold and so you had this kind of work
06:14conversion that was a arbitrary thing
06:16there's no reason it's sort of like RPN
06:18versus right and then in in this you
06:21know you have to kind of think about
06:23copy paste a little bit like which
06:25direction because you're using the
06:26sharing tools you know that are in the
06:29apps which is a little bit different
06:30than always assuming you're going to
06:32save it to a place on your desktop yeah
06:34kind of like the classic windows model
06:36with you would open Word and then you'd
06:37hit file open and you get the file
06:39whereas the Mac was always structured
06:41and the idea that you double click on
06:42the word file and that Matt and the Mac
06:44would then open the application and you
06:45can argue about which of those is better
06:47but there's just different ways of doing
06:49it and sometime when this is to my point
06:50you could argue like that that thing
06:52worked better on the Mac but then there
06:54was other stuff that worked better on
06:55the PC and I think this is kind of the
06:57thing that there's there's like there's
06:59a small number of things that I can't do
07:01on this there's a much larger there's a
07:03large portion where it's basically the
07:04same and then there's a portion where
07:06it's like if this one is different I'm
07:07better on my Mac and that one's better
07:09on my iPad I mean the thing that I found
07:12it's like there's this I said there's a
07:14whole conversation about what can I do
07:15what I was doing before but then there's
07:17another layer which is I feel like
07:19there's a big sort of step change in the
07:21mental load of using it because you're
07:24not thinking about all the menus at the
07:26top of the screen and you're not like
07:27thinking about well where are my windows
07:29and if I maximize the window and if I
07:31save the file or not and where is the
07:34mouse in particular like moving the
07:37mouse around moving your hand and seeing
07:39the pointer which is kind of a weird
07:40thing to say after 30 years of it being
07:42completely natural but you know actually
07:44going and just touching the damn thing
07:45after about you know two days makes
07:48perfect sense and actually when I first
07:49got the because I had the large iPad pro
07:51so I got it when that when it came out I
07:53had a tablet I had an iPad since the
07:55iPad came out in whatever it was 2010
07:57and I never found myself touching the
08:00screen in my laptop and I had my iPad
08:03pro for about two days and I find myself
08:05touching the screen of my laptop so I
08:06you know this is like a very well I told
08:13everybody that because we when we were
08:15doing Windows 8 we we all started
08:17touching our regular laptops and when I
08:20said that at the big giant unveiling
08:22like the reporters came up to me
08:23afterwards and said that's the most
08:24ridiculous thing then we gave them all
08:26all tablets and then like within hours
08:29I'm starting to hear all of them tell me
08:30they're touching their screens and of
08:32course any one just needs to watch
08:33somebody you know under 10 years old and
08:35they're touching whatever screen is in
08:37front of them and it is it is really
08:39true my Mac is my Mac has always been
08:41filled with fingerprints because I I
08:44mean the thing that I found I mean it is
08:45it's the things too even mentioned
08:47earlier that you kind of try
08:48you need to use it for a while before
08:49you will understand this stuff you can't
08:50just you can't use it for an hour and
08:52get oh this sucks you have to really let
08:54flow into it the things that I found
08:56with the iPad pro is because it doesn't
08:57have the touchpad the screen is closer
09:02to you yeah and therefore the screen is
09:06closer I don't know how you'd measure it
09:07but it's closer to your elbows yeah and
09:09it's closer to your shoulders and
09:10therefore raising your fingers touch
09:13something and then dropping your hand
09:14back onto the keyboard makes much more
09:16feels much more natural than it does
09:18with a surface because the screen is
09:20that much further away because it has a
09:22I still wonder I mean and it sounds to
09:24me like it's something you just have to
09:25experience but the form factor the kind
09:28of general bones are the same as that
09:31tablet that we saw when the a pad iPad
09:32first came out it's a completely
09:35different thing right and what's
09:37happened is is that the software has
09:39changed a huge amount like that all the
09:41apps you know Steve Jobs did say the
09:43apps would get different he sat up on on
09:45a stage and interview with Walt Mossberg
09:46explaining it's just software and the
09:48software will get tuned it just took a
09:50little bit while longer for people to
09:52find the the different kind of apps
09:53there was no slack there was no medium
09:55there was no quip or other products that
09:58people you know are now associating with
10:00that form of productivity and the other
10:02thing too is like you know in fact he
10:04talked about well touch won't work on
10:06laptops because you'll get grill arms
10:08this isn't a laptop and to benedict's
10:10point like you it's you don't my arms
10:13aren't tired ever and in fact some of
10:14these things are a lot easier you sit
10:16kind of lean on your elbow and you can
10:18scroll around you can use two hands to
10:20manipulate the UI so like you can kind
10:22of shift left shift right and you don't
10:25have that pain in your middle finger
10:26that you used to have from scrolling the
10:27wheel on your mouse screen like because
10:32of my own I haven't used a mouse in like
10:35five years but I did get a mouse and I
10:38used it with my Mac this week just to
10:40remind myself and it truly like now I
10:42got I really got the feeling of it like
10:45you're ten years old and you get put in
10:46front of a computer with the mouse
10:47that's like the weirdest experience in
10:50the world because it turns out all those
10:51things people said in the 80s when mice
10:55came out about like it's kind of
10:57detached from what I'm doing and it's
10:58this level of Internet it turns out it's
11:01and if you if you didn't force yourself
11:03to experience it as your first computing
11:05it doesn't appear natural at all name
11:07some things that are better so I
11:09actually like the multitasking model
11:12which is similar to the model that I
11:15mean people have spent like 20 years
11:17trying to work out how you do
11:19and to me the most absurd thing is when
11:21I see people you've got 178 tabs open in
11:23chrome and it's like didn't we spend 20
11:25years trying to work out a better way of
11:26doing it than just having that sawtooth
11:27across across the top of the screen and
11:29so you've got the taskbar in Windows
11:31you've got the expose on the Mac and
11:33then you have the multi split screen
11:35singing in Windows 8 7
11:37not that I'm petty but it was and then
11:43and so then I think the thing that Apple
11:45that the thing that the the split screen
11:46thing I think works really really well
11:48and I is to my mental load point rather
11:50than okay I'm going to put this window
11:52there and I'm going to get the mouse and
11:53I'm gonna grab the corner and I'm gonna
11:54drag it here and then I'm gonna get this
11:56other window and I'm going to put it
11:57there and I've got two enormous screens
11:58on my desk so that's not an issue but no
12:00laptop it's an issue and whereas here
12:02it's like okay I have the mail app now I
12:04dragged from the side I flipped over
12:06what the calendar there and I've got the
12:08mail and Canada next to each other and
12:10it's not done and that is like 10
12:12seconds hundred times a day on my and
12:15and for me like I am just I was writing
12:17my blog post and there's Twitter right
12:19and that is the demo we did for Windows
12:22so a long a long time ago and but the
12:23thing is is that because the apps now
12:25have been tuned to not just display like
12:27that but to work like that
12:29like the feeds coming by you're hitting
12:31you're hitting like you know and it's
12:32just it's all just sort of working and
12:35then I would go another step further on
12:36but you know as part of the brilliance
12:38of the design that they did is that now
12:41like the stuff that's happening on my
12:43phone that is relevant like SMS messages
12:46or incoming phone calls are like
12:48completely seamlessly integrated and and
12:50I definitely notice that because I
12:52switch to an Android phone this week
12:53later in the week just to experience
12:55what's missing oh so so I want to get to
12:57what's missing and what's worse but I I
12:59did have that question like would you
13:01two be as happy with what's sitting on
13:04your knees now if your phones weren't
13:07there and if the phone hadn't come as
13:09far as it had like did those two things
13:12need to go together for this experience
13:15if I had this and then in some parallel
13:18I had a Nokia feature phone from 2001
13:21and this had a I've got had an LTE modem
13:26in it would that matter not that much I
13:30mean that's probably cuz I make no phone
13:32calls and one of the cool things is you
13:33can tap on a phone number on the on your
13:34iPad in your phone dials it and pick up
13:36your phone and made the call does it
13:38make a difference no but um you know I
13:41was walking down the stairs and someone
13:43emailed me a link and I tapped on it I
13:45saw a link in Twitter and I tapped in it
13:47and then I get to my desk and I hit
13:49Safari and or I get to my you know where
13:51my iPad is open my iPad I hit Safari in
13:54the same link is there oh I'm listening
13:56to music and the same music is on the
13:58set is on my iPad and it's not just like
14:00the calendar and stuff where you would
14:01expect you to sing but it's things like
14:03that where you can really can most of
14:05the time just pick up and put down it's
14:08helpful I mean it's not a must-have
14:09right but it's a nice it's only a nice
14:11to have well one of the things that is
14:13much better for me is just because it
14:15gets back to the fundamentals of the
14:17whole hardware and the device is that it
14:19be it you know it is a phone like it's
14:22from the smartphone ecosystem and that
14:23turns out to matter a lot just for
14:25connectivity and so the part for me
14:27that's been so game-changer is with if
14:29if I could use any phone and I could use
14:31it as a Wi-Fi hotspot which is what I'm
14:32doing you know my Android phone it's
14:35super cool but it's always like a extra
14:37step and so now because this has got its
14:39LTE modem and I got the LTE version and
14:41it and it's a big thing that's changed
14:44like when the iPad came out it was $80 a
14:46month extra to have it have connectivity
14:49and now it's it's ten dollars a month on
14:51the family plan and you know and 140 or
14:54so for the the device but like it
14:57completely it's another thing that
14:58totally changes you never have to think
14:59about it's this mental late point it's
15:01another meant an abstraction layer it's
15:02just it's all these little things which
15:04yeah you could do that Windows yeah and
15:05you can do that Windows and you can do
15:07that on your PC and you can do that on
15:08your Mac yes but they're all the thing
15:09you've got to do whereas on a smartphone
15:13or on a tablet you don't have to do them
15:14they're just sort of that yeah the
15:17window management is it is really a
15:19fascinating point because like you don't
15:21think about the mental load if you'd
15:23been doing it for so long but then you
15:24know like all these things that I watch
15:26oh you know I had a reboot last night
15:28and these six apps we use don't remember
15:31their screen position or which monitor
15:33they were on and you're back to like
15:34this 10 minutes of weird bookkeeping
15:36which is very much like the desktop so
15:39like a friend of mine tweeted a giant
15:41picture of his Mac desktop that was
15:42filled with stuff and you just don't
15:43have that management metaphor anymore
15:46and so you don't go oh I'm overwhelmed
15:48by all the stuff on my desktop because
15:50it's all sort of in like a Google Drive
15:52or a box or whatever cloud thing you're
15:55using and you just kind of keep working
15:57and you don't think about like where are
15:58my notes they're in Evernote they're
16:00just in Evernote it doesn't matter and
16:02you search across them with spotlight
16:03and it kind of just works Benedict you
16:05said that presentations were or slides
16:08building was not the the best thing on
16:10the on the tablet Stephen what have you
16:13noticed that you know was it hard to do
16:15this blog post I mean did it take extra
16:17effort where you kind of were
16:20yourself because I I you know I have
16:23this muscle memory that's super old of
16:25having done platform transitions before
16:26it's not-- it was it was different and
16:28there were things that were like wow
16:29okay I got to remember now that's a
16:31little bit backwards like you know it's
16:33it turns out ironically it's like way
16:34easier to get a screenshot then in other
16:37experiences but the screenshots all go
16:39to your photo library so it's kind of
16:41tricky there's not like an easy insert
16:44picture and crop it all at once it's not
16:47like you can't drag the photo off the
16:49webpage onto the desktop and drag it
16:52onto the drag it into the CMS from your
16:54website yeah so that layer I mean that's
16:56what in a sense that's the flip side of
16:58what you give up by not having files and
16:59brain so you don't have so and there
17:02were like 40 different vintage computing
17:04things in this blog post I did and now
17:06they were the this gap of my pictures of
17:09like here's a squirrel and here's the
17:11moon and then here's 40 pictures of like
17:13old computers followed by more pictures
17:15of yoga studios and so I like I'm like
17:17do I move those do I delete them and
17:19then of course I don't care cuz it's all
17:20just cloud storage and it doesn't really
17:22I don't have to clean it up I don't have
17:23to have that that over but you know the
17:26flip side of it is what is that the
17:28writing tools were super good and I
17:30wasn't doing what I would do on a PC
17:31because it turns out what I would do on
17:32a PC for that experience I would have
17:34started word I would have typed the
17:36whole blog post pasted the pictures in I
17:38would have had a file and then I would
17:41to paste it into the blogging tool into
17:44some see and so you don't you that whole
17:45step went away and so now there's just
17:48the media map and I do all the writing
17:49in the media map and which is constantly
17:52saving into the background so there's
17:53never a step where I'm gonna lose the
17:55work right and so it was a hugely better
17:58experience when you net it all out now
18:00it's super early the media map has some
18:02weird bugs and there were things that
18:04were interesting and I like that's gonna
18:06all get fixed and I bet in the next
18:07month they're all fixed because the iPad
18:09isn't it which is certainly my the big
18:11ask of all the founders that are
18:13listening which is like I think that
18:14your iPad app is gonna be a real asset
18:16if you have one and you're in the
18:18productivity space like there's just
18:20there's a lot of uses or if you're in
18:22the social space doing the the side view
18:24of it so that you can you know use it
18:27while you do other stuff but you're
18:29saying when you need a large screen then
18:30you fire it up and you fire up the old
18:32notebook or something but Steven are you
18:35gonna get rid of it completely are you
18:37gonna toss your desktop laptop you don't
18:40have a desktop anymore me know I
18:41definitely do have a desktop I have like
18:43four laptops at home that are all mine
18:46that I just cycle between whether I want
18:47to use a really big surface with a high
18:49pixel count screen a small PC or MacBook
18:52and others and and they're all just
18:55station there might as well be desktops
18:57right at this point like I'm never and
18:59like other things are just small
19:00abstraction I don't think about chargers
19:02now like I first I don't need one ever
19:04in the course of a day like you can't
19:06drain this best you know what Mossberg
19:08said in his review which he didn't do an
19:10official test but he he's like wow it
19:12went all day easily and so and even if I
19:14do need a charger there are like
19:16chargers for this iPad
19:17everywhere you look like everyone has
19:20one the worst case is I'll have to
19:22borrow a cable like an airport but then
19:24there's even a USB plug and so that's a
19:27huge like every hotel the clock is a
19:29charger I mean I mean this is something
19:31we haven't talked about which is sort of
19:32it's a transition from I mean and it's
19:35something that's very interesting when
19:36you look at the iPads next to the
19:38surface which is because the surface
19:41comes from the kind of the winter world
19:42the Intel world and it's kind of it's
19:45almost the same thing but it's not and
19:49it's not partly because of Windows but
19:50also because it's coming from the
19:52different hardware ecosystem and say you
19:53don't have the same battery life you
19:54don't have the three
19:55you made em built-in you don't have the
19:58same weight advantage the charger is
19:59different well the charge is different
20:01but that's just because they haven't
20:02sold a hundred million of them if
20:03they've microsoft's had sid sold a
20:06billion surfaces there'd be charges
20:07everywhere but no my point is it's like
20:08it's it's one of the metaphors i've
20:10talked about sometimes it's like you're
20:12looking at a piece sealer surface or at
20:15the new macbook it's a bit like looking
20:17at like the really last and best
20:19piston-powered aircraft from the 50s
20:21where like they've optimized the hell
20:24out of everything and they were really
20:25good and really smooth and they didn't
20:26vibrate and the engines didn't fail and
20:29then you look at the jets which are kind
20:31of noisy and used twice as much fuel and
20:32they belt smoke and then all is good but
20:34like you can see which trajectory those
20:37two development paths are on yes and I
20:39think this is kind of the point that
20:40there's you could almost say like the
20:42iPad pro is like this is seven now the
20:43707 yeah yeah if it's the one at which
20:46you point okay well the latke
20:47constellation is a beautiful aircraft
20:49but yeah that's the part that you know
20:52I'm just so wedded to it and obviously I
20:54have all of that past in history but
20:56like this is just it is really where
20:58this arm ecosystem in this this new kind
21:00of OS with apps and security and quality
21:02over time and no flakiness and no weird
21:05add-ins that are gonna screw up the
21:06machine all of that stuff it really
21:08comes together like this is the most
21:10reliable like laptop I'm ever gonna
21:12carry on a trip not just like reliable
21:14from software it's also like physically
21:16it's just not there's no it's never
21:17gonna break it and it occurs to me that
21:20you know that there used to always be
21:21the term power user you guys if there
21:23ever were power users our power users
21:25except that nobody says that anymore
21:27because it doesn't matter there's more
21:28than enough power it sounds like to do
21:30anything that you want to do yeah I like
21:32I did a presentation for the team
21:33recently just on like the history of AI
21:36and machine learning and stuff and like
21:38I didn't even think about it but I just
21:39did the whole thing in slides and just
21:42did it and it was pretty it had pictures
21:44that had transitions it had all of these
21:47I admit had no charts and graphs like
21:49but other things about that abstraction
21:51layer like so much of what and remember
21:53I worked on all these things so they're
21:54very emotional for me but like all of
21:56these things that I used to do with the
21:58mouse like aligning text boxes and
22:00pictures and like you don't do those
22:02anymore because a the audience
22:04appreciates them in a different way but
22:06also the tools have changed and so like
22:09things side-by-side like long ago
22:11PowerPoint added stuff to make that
22:13super easy and slides has it and all the
22:16presentation packages have it and so it
22:18kind of just works then I'd exported to
22:19PDF I could mail it around and you know
22:22I'm using outlook as the mail program
22:23which was updated today that has even
22:25more stuff that I can't even do on a PC
22:27like the outlook that I got updated
22:28today that's on my my iPad like has
22:31connections to Facebook events and
22:33Evernote which aren't things that exist
22:36in the outlook that I would use on my
22:37Windows desktop this is certainly the
22:40hope both on the part of Apple and also
22:42you know Microsoft but do you start to
22:44see we're gonna start to see these you
22:46know populating everyone's office
22:48everyone's bag I mean do you think we're
22:50now at a point where you know this
22:52becomes for everyone a replacement I
22:55think it does I mean this there's this
22:58there's questions about which office
23:00you're talking about so you know the
23:01call center with five hundred rabbit
23:04hutch cubicles running a computer that's
23:07connected to a SAS service is that going
23:11to be a tablet maybe but you know it
23:13does it doesn't really matter what it is
23:15but I think there's a huge portion of
23:17other people where I mean this is kind
23:20of comes to a point we've talked about
23:21it for other things which is you have to
23:23think about what the tool is that you're
23:24using as opposed to the underlying task
23:26so if your task to every two weeks is to
23:29make a thirty five slides sales report
23:31in PowerPoint full of information that
23:34you've pulled from s ap dropped into
23:36Excel made charts put the charts into
23:38PowerPoint right bullet points in the
23:39PowerPoint email it at that around its
23:41kind of always going to be easier to do
23:42that on a PC with a keyboard and a mouse
23:44is your job to make a PowerPoint or is
23:46your job to unseal filled sales or
23:48marketing or support or engineering or
23:49something and would that be better off
23:51as a live SAS dashboard or would you be
23:53better off doing that in slack and so I
23:55think you have to layer that question of
23:57how much of the theme of those right for
24:00me or in my ten percent use cases of the
24:01things I can need a PC for I need a PC
24:04or Mac for how many people have those
24:06two use cases and to what extent will
24:10they not have those use cases in five
24:12years time I mean whenever I talk about
24:13this stuff on Twitter I always get
24:15people saying oh you're an idiot I can't
24:16write code on an iPad it's like okay
24:18that's 25 to 50 million people it's one
24:20and a half billion pcs on earth there's
24:22three billion high risk
24:23Android devices on earth will go to five
24:25billion so they're always going to be
24:26like a portion of people where for
24:29whatever reason you're going to be using
24:30a different device you're going to be
24:31Dell but there's always but justice is
24:33always a portion of people who did
24:34engage from a firm dip desktops to
24:35laptops yeah you could have said laptops
24:37of the future nownself again have a
24:38desktop well guess what half the sales
24:40at half of the base is still a desktop
24:41because there's a bunch of people who
24:42either their IT department and you want
24:44to spend $300 on a computer or they want
24:46a big screen or they want the
24:47performance of wherever it is but
24:49there's a whole other portion of the
24:51population where I mean since look at it
24:54in another way if you've asked somebody
24:55somebody asked you 20 years ago should I
24:56buy a laptop or a desktop you would say
24:58it depends you know what are you going
25:00to do with it because laptops are slow
25:02and they're kind of crappy and they're
25:03heavy and they're really expensive but
25:05if you're spending all your day walking
25:07around then you should get one and over
25:09time the laptops got better and better
25:10and better to such to the point that
25:12today there's very few people who do
25:14something that you can't do on a laptop
25:15really very few people who can't you
25:17need a desktop and so desktop sales are
25:20either a as I say the cube farm where
25:22they want $5,200 computers or people are
25:25doing video editing or compiling code or
25:27something and I think the same you need
25:29to slot tablets into that same kind of
25:30calculation which is well what are you
25:32doing are you actually doing something
25:34that needs Windows and Mac will you
25:37still be doing that in five years time
25:38are you sure I think the important thing
25:41now from both of you is that the the
25:43notion of what you can do with the
25:45tablet has changed right with these
25:47devices and also and well justice what
25:49you could do with a laptop right yeah
25:51that is actually a super key analogy for
25:53I think to come across which is what you
25:55know as a reminder it is really the case
25:57is Benedict said when laptops came out
25:59they were ridiculed they had
26:01black-and-white screens they had small
26:03resolution I had them all and like
26:05everybody you travel and people would be
26:07mesmerized by it and then they'd say hey
26:09I have this thing that needs a serial
26:11port can i connect it and you'd be like
26:13no and they're like I can't use it and
26:15then pretty soon they got all the ports
26:16and then they became the replacement for
26:18the desktop for people who actually
26:19never needed a desktop right and what's
26:22happening with with the iPad and there
26:24was a brief moment where people were
26:26only traveling with our iPads and they
26:27were constantly oh it's on my desktop or
26:29I have to get when I get to the hotel
26:30I'll print it or any of these things and
26:32what happened is all of those use cases
26:34sort of changed and then there's a
26:36period of time where people
26:37god TSA all the stuff I'm not even
26:39bringing my laptop I'm just gonna use my
26:40phone for this you know day trip or this
26:42overnighter and now with with the pro
26:45it's gonna you're gonna find people are
26:48gonna travel with it it's easy it weighs
26:50nothing like it it really is like
26:53lighter than my paper notebook that I
26:55take notes and stuff and like it fits in
26:57every conceivable kind of bag and so
27:00then you're you know just it will you'll
27:02travel with it and you'll never have the
27:03moment I have to go do that at my
27:05desktop for a huge set of people and use
27:07cases and that's certainly what it just
27:09took like five days for me to first
27:11happen to me well the very big question
27:14is Benedict are you gonna put stickers
27:15on your tablet well I never put stickers
27:22Stephen Benedict thank you guys thank
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