00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Michael
00:02Copeland and we are here today with the
00:05founder and CEO of Walker & Company
00:07hello Tristan Walker and I'm going to
00:11embarrass him right now but everybody's
00:12retail hero Ron Johnson Ron well honey
00:16that's great to be here thank you yeah
00:18well you're my hero and yet when my kids
00:20want to go to the Apple store I'm always
00:21it's like a an orb that pulls them in so
00:24I blame you for things too
00:26I'll take that that's okay so we want to
00:28talk about retail and let me just back
00:32up and Ron you're an investor interests
00:35company I sort of want to get a little
00:36bit of this background on how you two
00:38synched up yeah no it's a it's actually
00:41a funny story I don't I'm not sure Ron
00:43knows the true into end story here so we
00:46were raising our Series A round and
00:49increasing our lights decided to
00:50participate and I remember getting an
00:52email early in the morning I woke up I
00:55think it was 6:00 in the morning I got
00:56an email from Marc Andreessen and Marc
00:58said Tristan absolutely no pressure I
01:01know we're about to close the round if
01:04you don't want to do this don't worry
01:05about it forget about it but we know Ron
01:08Johnson and we think he'd be a great
01:10person to help you think through your
01:12business at which point I frantically
01:15and said are you crazy Ron Johnson as
01:19you know my retail here as well I said
01:22make it happen as soon as possible
01:23unfortunately Ron was so gracious to me
01:26with me and decide to invest in the
01:28business it seems like it's working out
01:30well I I want to know Ron you know let's
01:33let's start at a high level and and and
01:37Tristan you have the opportunity to sort
01:39of build a brand from scratch which is
01:41what you're doing but are the elements
01:43of retail have they changed are there
01:46certain things that you have to have as
01:48you're building a brand and a and a
01:50retail presence where are we today and
01:54where do you think things are going well
01:57I think brands are really not retail
02:00they're much bigger than retail retail
02:02is just a distribution system for a
02:04brand and for years and years because
02:07the store was such a central part of
02:10and in the 80s when a lot of specialty
02:13stars came out we thought of a retail
02:15store as a brand as personified by like
02:17the gap right you know back in the 80s
02:19and there been a lot of specialty stores
02:21but brands proceeded retail stores
02:24brands have been around forever and
02:26brands have certain core values that
02:29show up in everything they do and we
02:31just a lot of times think of retail
02:33stores as brands but brands are
02:34pervasive from what we drank to what we
02:37wear to what we drive you know it's an
02:40identity that has certain markers and
02:42those markers are really important to
02:44build and trust and monitor and value
02:47and and love and that's the core of a
02:50brand I think a retail store is just a
02:52physical face of a brand if you will
02:56so Justin as you think about that part
02:59of your brand and how you're sort of
03:01creating those markers and and how are
03:04you executing on that and how do you
03:05think about it yeah so I think for our
03:08brands there there are two things that
03:10are really important for us number one
03:12designing product that works right
03:14products that actually proved on its
03:18efficacy promise right but to for us
03:20even more important is authenticity to
03:23what we're trying to build I think we
03:24try to have a really deep respect for
03:27our customers the culture that they want
03:29to be a part of the aesthetic that they
03:31want to see the tone of voice in which
03:34we communicate with them you know
03:36customers are as smart as ever and
03:39particularly you know in our case we're
03:40focusing on the niche demographic I
03:43think you know our customers are a bit
03:45more perceptive around how they've been
03:48underserved and as long as we stay true
03:51and authentic to their needs it will be
03:54fine and we've been proving that so far
03:57Tristan's in a great job building the
03:59coral months of his brand and it shows
04:01up in the quality of the product you
04:02know the moment I invested I was right
04:04here after I met Tristan for coffee when
04:06were and I just believed in him right
04:08and as anyone will tell you you invest
04:09in people especially in early-stage
04:12companies but it shows up in the brand
04:14because the values that Tristan embodies
04:16are embodied in bevel in the products
04:19the marketing the website
04:21and I become a real connoisseur you know
04:23I shave every day you know with the
04:25bevel blade and I used to do you know a
04:28variety of things but it's by far you
04:31know the best shave I've had and I
04:34honestly miss it almost feel guilty when
04:36I don't do that the more I'm in a hurry
04:38these part I've made a commitment to
04:40this brand there's a relationship now
04:41but brands are very powerful when done
04:44right so if retail is just sort of the
04:47distribution for a brand or the shelf
04:51space however you want to describe it
04:53how important is it and and for brands
04:57you know Tristan you can answer this but
04:59for brands that are building you know
05:01their footprint today how should they
05:03start thinking about retail so I mean
05:06the way that we think about it we very
05:07much believe in omni-channel right now
05:09we sell online direct to consumer but we
05:11have every intention to sell our product
05:13offline you know one thing I learned
05:15from Ron and in his build out of the
05:18Apple Store is you know Apple is very
05:22thoughtful about the folks who didn't
05:24buy product yeah well you walk into the
05:26store you can go and check email you can
05:29listen to music you can get your Mac
05:31fixed right among other things and I
05:33think Apple did a fantastic job
05:34optimizing the experience for you know
05:37the 90% of people who walk through the
05:39store and don't buy anything right and
05:41when we think about what we want to
05:43build our brand means more than just the
05:45product itself it's the lifestyle it's
05:47the music it's the aesthetic among other
05:49things so we want to be thoughtful about
05:51creating an offline presence similar to
05:54what they were able to build and
05:55optimizing for the 99% of people who
05:57might not want a haircut or want a salon
05:59treatment or something of that sort yeah
06:02you know it's interesting when the Apple
06:03stores first opened in 2001 you look at
06:07what Apple's brand value was it was ease
06:10you know enriching lives making people's
06:13lives better and the store had to do
06:15and so we designed a store that wasn't
06:17about selling things is about making an
06:20owner have a better experience and
06:22introducing the brand to people so we
06:24located stores where people lived their
06:25lives we had free service no employees
06:28were on commission we delivered
06:30face-to-face help a genius bars at a
06:32was going to the web we did that because
06:34that's what you'd expect from Apple and
06:36part of why the Apple stores were so
06:38successful is they somehow personified
06:41in a physical way the core brand
06:44attributes in today's world which is
06:47multi-channel unfortunately we're in a
06:50period where stores will become
06:51increasingly less important in the total
06:54distribution mix the world is moving
06:56online right it's moving online more
06:58rapidly than I think a lot of us imagine
07:00a lot more than I did and so the
07:02challenge for a start-up is given that
07:05physical retails expensive and knowing
07:07there will be less important to your mix
07:09long term what's the right mix how does
07:12it complement your brand what's the role
07:14of that in your mix and that's a very
07:17challenging question for people to
07:18figure out so I want to poke at that
07:20then what interesting you can answer
07:22this but what is that mixin and then how
07:24does it play a role well specifically
07:26for our products I think it's it's
07:28fairly unique because there's still a
07:30hell of a lot of folks who are skeptical
07:32about leveraging a tool like this right
07:35so you know when I think about my
07:36shaving experience as a kid I was know
07:43not being able to shave because all of
07:45the products that I would leverage did
07:47damage to my face right and you know
07:50we're talking to customers and trying to
07:53convince them to leverage our tool when
07:54there's that inherent skepticism so
07:56sometimes you might need that barber to
07:58say hey you can actually use a product
07:59like this you might need folks
08:01experience having the priming oil on
08:03their faces or the kind of cooling
08:05effect of the restoring balm and what
08:07that does and show the customer the
08:10efficacy in real time so I think our
08:12needs are a little bit different from
08:15some of the more traditional retailers
08:17out there where it's a very very
08:19important part and so this is something
08:21I want to ask is that there's this idea
08:23that there are certain products or
08:26categories of products that you have to
08:27try and you have to use or try on before
08:31you make that purchase but we see sort
08:33of one-by-one the categories end those
08:35products falling away and like maybe I
08:37don't need to try that but do you
08:38believe that for you know hair care and
08:41you know sort of facial well-being
08:45what you do that it's always gonna be
08:47the case that people need to try it
08:48before they buy it well III think it's
08:50it's even more than that let's the kind
08:52of thing about the traditional barber
08:54shop yeah you know folks go there to get
08:56a haircut folks go there to experience
08:58the community and you know communicate
09:00with each other and have fun with each
09:02other and experience the culture you
09:04know at least in our community black
09:06barbershop will never go away
09:07right right it's an important part in
09:10driving politics culture among other
09:12things and as long as we can be
09:14respectful and authentic to that
09:16experience you know we'll be able to
09:19develop an experience for folks that
09:20really resonates Ron how would you
09:23answer that question well I think
09:24Tristan's right the best advertising has
09:27always been word-of-mouth it's been
09:29integrity coming from one customer to
09:32another in the days we live in today
09:34with social media word-of-mouth can
09:36spread faster than ever before in
09:39history but it's kind of like the
09:41chicken or egg where do you start so you
09:43have to start with someone having a
09:44great experience with the product and
09:45authentic experience right so you see
09:48them some level a trial and then that
09:50words got to get out to people and so
09:52every brand has to find a way to get
09:54customers to try their product then you
09:56can leverage social media to get the
09:57word out and it's actually trusted and
09:59if you look today everybody goes online
10:01to research increase they go to video on
10:04YouTube they get recommendations from
10:06friends that's the most powerful voice
10:09for many brands it's the social media
10:11world we live in but it's got to start
10:13somewhere right when we launched the
10:16Apple stores the challenge for Apple was
10:17we had three percent you know market
10:19share but no one could try a product so
10:21we had to put stores in so that would
10:23give us a chance to suit up and then the
10:26word took off by itself one of the
10:28values of the Apple stores over the past
10:30twelve years is Apple has really not had
10:34a bad product launch since we had stores
10:36now the stores didn't create the
10:38products in any way shape or form
10:40inherently you got to have great
10:41products but the stores became a way for
10:44the first users to have a great
10:46experience and then word of mouth took
10:48over right right so if you look at the
10:50Apple stores there's only a couple
10:51hundred in the US you know other brands
10:54have thousands of stores yet they're the
10:57right number of stores that when
10:58something new happens Apple gets the
11:00benefit of launching that product so
11:03real people can spread to you the social
11:04media network if app comes out with a
11:06new product in September ninth you can
11:08guarantee those stores will be filled
11:10with people trying to touch it try it
11:11see what it's all about and that's a
11:14critical asset for Apple in its
11:15distribution system it enables their
11:17creativity of a chance to be heard by
11:19the marketplace so I think all brands a
11:21to figure out how do you get that trial
11:22but increasingly it's not about that
11:25being the only distribution method
11:27you're gonna have most your commerce
11:28done long term through other formats in
11:31a traditional store so I have to follow
11:33up questions for that does that then
11:35explain why other consumer electronics
11:38companies I will name Sony and Microsoft
11:41didn't succeed with that same retail
11:43model is it because the sort of lineup
11:46of product meets retail meets experience
11:48meets you know satisfaction just wasn't
11:51there and so no matter how how beautiful
11:54a store etc if you don't have all those
11:57elements it's not going to help you well
11:59here's what I'd say I think the
12:00Microsoft stores has succeeded much more
12:03than the popular opinion you know when
12:06someone sees an Apple stored on
12:07Microsoft Store side-by-side
12:09you're comparing the Microsoft Store to
12:11for some reason that's the most
12:12productive retail store on the planet
12:14right and Microsoft has you know a
12:17hundred stores they continue to open
12:19stores the experience in the stores is
12:22pretty good it's different than the
12:24Apple store but it's not I think it
12:25severe it's a successful retail strategy
12:28so this idea that hasn't been successful
12:30ok it just maybe isn't quite as popular
12:33as the Apple store right but that's just
12:35saying like you know one restaurant
12:36isn't as good as the other because it's
12:37not quite as crowded you know and so you
12:40know I think retailing is really hard
12:42and you know I think Microsoft's doing
12:45better than people think
12:47or they wouldn't keep opening stores and
12:49I I think it's really helped for
12:50instance the surface 3 it's a really
12:52great product we all know that everyone
12:54tries surface 3 is pretty blown away
12:56with the software the interaction how it
12:58can be a tablet and a computer it's part
13:01of the future without those stores that
13:03surface 3 wouldn't be where it is today
13:05now it's going to take a long time
13:08because it takes time to move from mind
13:10share to market share but I think those
13:12stores are really helping Microsoft with
13:13that product describe that breakdown
13:18moving from mind share to market share
13:20is there a sequence of events and and
13:22how do you think about this to Tristan
13:24yeah so the way that we think about is
13:26that market share will get figured out
13:28if mine share gets figured out and kind
13:30of way we think about mine share is
13:32getting the maximum number of people who
13:34are so incredibly enthusiastic about the
13:38promise that you've given them right rat
13:40so for us I tell our team you know we're
13:43not gonna focus on growth as much as we
13:44are gonna focus on kind of kind of
13:47customer lifetime value of sorts right
13:49we want diehard loyal customers who are
13:52inevitably incentivized to want to
13:54promote our product right the great
13:57thing that we have is you know a lot of
13:59customers who haven't had a good
14:01experience with similar types of
14:02products of the Harz for decades right
14:05and once they get it you know they'll
14:08preach it to the mountaintops their
14:09inheritance statement and as long as we
14:11get a core small group of very die-hard
14:14loyal customers they're gonna talk about
14:16and that market share work itself out
14:19the Apple store you mentioned Ron that
14:21it's the most productive or one of the
14:23most productive retail stores out there
14:25there is this idea that physical retail
14:28in the in future will be sort of this
14:30lost leader do you believe that and or
14:34how should people again in this mix of
14:37retail and online think about the
14:40expense and the value of retail oh I
14:44think anybody who sets up a retail store
14:46as a loss leader is gonna fail you know
14:49there are much better ways to invest
14:50your money to build a brand and to build
14:53a business than use a store as a loss
14:54leader now that has worked at times for
14:57flagship stores and Couture apparel on
14:59Fifth Avenue but broadly speaking to
15:01reach masses through a money-losing
15:03retail strategy is not a good investment
15:07fair enough don't do that Tristan so
15:11Tristan it sounds like your retail
15:12strategy you've mentioned barbers you
15:16know and you tell me yeah if you're
15:18thinking about some date because it's
15:20interesting that there's a handful of
15:22brands have been born online so I can
15:25think of Warby Parker and bonobos and
15:27and some others bata brands is another
15:30one here in San Francisco that you know
15:33they were all internet all the time and
15:35all sudden they're like well no actually
15:37we'd like to have our own shop or our
15:39own outlet how do you think about that
15:42well I think when you kind of reference
15:44some of the brands that you mentioned
15:45that they were masterful at the way that
15:48they sequence things right so these
15:50folks didn't start online and then come
15:52out with ten permanent retail shops
15:55right these folks started online built
15:58the lion's share you know sprinkled a
16:00few pop-up shops around the country
16:02understood how efficient they could make
16:04that retail space work and then when
16:06that became successful then slowly went
16:09into kind of establishing their own
16:10permanent presences I think we're going
16:12to take the same a similar approach
16:14fortunately we have folks like Ron
16:16helping us think through some of that
16:17stuff but you know at least for us we've
16:20been online for you know seven months
16:22now we want to take our product to
16:24consumers we can do it efficiently with
16:27things like you know potential pop-up
16:28experiences etc and if that's successful
16:31it will acquire the learnings from that
16:33to even potentially develop our own or
16:36you know pop-ups within a pop-up or a
16:38hominid presence and not to mention
16:41opportunities and things like mass
16:43retail etcetera but we'll get there
16:44right we're no rush yeah the internet
16:47has been this amazing thing to enable a
16:49proliferation of great brands and if you
16:52look at most of them they start by
16:54becoming famous for one thing you know
16:56Warby Parker for the way--by glasses
16:58bonobos for a pair of pants that fit
17:00ever lain for a t-shirt Amazon for books
17:03the key when you build a brand is to
17:06take a product and idea that you know
17:09kind of means what the brand is all
17:11about and do it so exceptionally well
17:14let the word-of-mouth carry over and
17:16then it enables you to move at some
17:19into a store or some type of physical
17:22experience but it used to be you'd start
17:24with the store and then move online
17:27today you start online and then maybe
17:29move to a store but it will be a
17:31multi-channel marketing strategy but the
17:35Internet is pretty powerful in what it
17:36enables like Tristan's gonna start with
17:38you know the best shave you've ever had
17:40and from there he can build a variety of
17:43consumer products and he'll have
17:45different ways to go to market but the
17:47internet really enables someone to take
17:50an idea and build off a niche a very
17:53powerful brand and to build a business
17:55that didn't exist you know prior to you
17:58know a decade ago I think that's a
18:00that's a great point yeah I got some
18:02advice you know when I was in business
18:03school I had a professor who said
18:05something that really stood out with me
18:07she said Tristan brand is not what you
18:09say it is it's what they say it is right
18:11and what was fascinating about I guess
18:13what Ron just said the the quicker you
18:16can get to that one use case that
18:19everyone can identify on your behalf
18:21mm-hmm then you know you will have had
18:23something to build upon and I'm
18:24fascinated every single day by how much
18:26our customers can articulate our value
18:29proposition to us that's a very very
18:32special thing and it sounds like and
18:35tell me what you think about this but
18:36does building a brand on the Internet
18:39does it engender loyalty in the same way
18:42or is there even sort of more capacity
18:44sort of for deeper loyalty I mean you
18:47know there's much discussion about
18:49showrooming and that you know nobody has
18:51any loyalty to sort of at least retail
18:54outlets they might have loyalty to
18:55products but how does the internet help
18:57end or hinder kind of building that
18:59loyalty and getting us away from this
19:02sort of polyamorous shopping habits that
19:04a lot of people have well see I really
19:06believe the Internet is gonna allow
19:08brands to extract the premium that they
19:11deserve you know great brands deserve a
19:13premium for the products for the
19:15experience that they provide early on
19:17with the mass number of stores we have
19:20too much square footage broad
19:22distribution of products stores have
19:24competed on price and by definition when
19:27you have to discount a product it's a
19:29withdrawal from the brand
19:31right if you look at Lana online of the
19:33new brands we've talked about they're
19:35all assault at full price you know
19:37they're maintained their premium and
19:39they're gonna let a business build at
19:41the right rate based on true brand
19:43values and that artificial things like a
19:45short-term discounted price now you know
19:48people like Amazon are actually the
19:50Walmart of the internet I think we all
19:52know that and they're helping people buy
19:54things at low price online there's a
19:57value for that right but in the early
19:59days most of Internet commerce is
20:01essentially a transaction it's about a
20:05low price and delivery right and we have
20:08a lot of people competing on delivery
20:09but if you look at the history of stores
20:11there been a lot of stores that are
20:13about a great product and great service
20:15right and those are the ones we think of
20:18great brands right and so the Internet's
20:21gonna have a way to communicate you know
20:23products that have great brands and
20:24eventually people find a way to add
20:26service online but in the early days
20:29it's been you know heavily devalued and
20:31very transactional right
20:32but Tristan ever Lane bondable all these
20:35people are in the forefront of building
20:37great brands online and they're gonna
20:39have those traditional brand values of
20:41you know a fair price really high
20:43quality great brand attributes and
20:45hopefully those leaders will reduce the
20:47to resist the temptation to get short
20:49term value at the expense of their
20:51brands yeah and this one go ahead
20:52Tristan please no I was gonna say or add
20:54that the irony of online that we've
20:58noticed is that it allows us to do
21:01things that potentially don't scale to
21:03the light of our customers and what I
21:05mean by that is you know we'll do things
21:07like our customer success you know
21:10specialists will actually do one-on-one
21:11video interviews with customers that
21:13want to find the grain of their hair to
21:15shave in the right direction like when
21:18you think about it that's not gonna
21:19scale will scale it but like when you
21:21think about it on first glance it
21:23doesn't you know for customers that
21:25travel and can't take their blades
21:27because TSA will take them away you know
21:29we'll send blades to their destination
21:31waiting for them right you know that's
21:33the stuff that will delight folks around
21:35the brand and things that the Internet
21:37can actually afford us that kind of off
21:39like can't run I want to get a little
21:42bit to your experience of JCPenney but
21:44and only by way of having you sort of I
21:47don't know advise folks who come from
21:50sort of more traditional retail
21:51backgrounds how they can approach this
21:54new world Tristan in some ways has this
21:56huge advantage of building a brand and a
21:59company from a blank sheet but if you're
22:01not there if you've been in this sort of
22:03bricks and mortar world what are some
22:05things that you should be thinking about
22:07to move move forward
22:09well I think in many ways and it's it's
22:10an advantage to come to the brand
22:13business to the amla and brand build a
22:15business from a clean sheet of paper you
22:17know a lot of the people in the bricks
22:19and mortar world have developed very bad
22:21habits very bad assumptions over a
22:23period of time because they've been
22:25competing really in an old business
22:27model and trying to survive and some are
22:30doing pretty well but very few are
22:32thriving right you know and some of the
22:34best like best buy yesterday reported
22:36sales down 2% stock went up because they
22:38earn more money well if they earn more
22:40money it's because either the vendors
22:42gave them more margin or they reduce
22:45payroll for their employees both of
22:47these are good in the short run for
22:48investors long term they aren't you no
22:51good for shareholders or stakeholders or
22:53for employees it's you're fighting a
22:56long term very challenging battle and I
23:00think you can develop bad habits
23:01competing that way you know and so I
23:04think some of these people that are
23:05coming into the business with a fresh
23:07set of eyes a fresh set of business
23:09models a willingness to try things and
23:11pivot as needed to build a great
23:14business are going to end up in a better
23:15place then some of us who come from a
23:17lot of experience but really have some
23:19old ideas about the right business
23:22models you know that's the challenge how
23:24hard is it to unwind those bad habits
23:27and and move forward I think it's really
23:30hard you know by human nature most of us
23:33our knowledge is based on our experience
23:36and the older you get you draw on a lot
23:39more experience and it's pretty easy to
23:42try to take that play that worked a
23:43decade ago and apply to today versus
23:46somebody doesn't have that experience
23:47and just applies new thinking to things
23:49you know and you look at an example I
23:51was reading today and
23:53I'm not advocating for the copy but I
23:55was ringing about Burger King and they
23:57said it's kind of being run by kids and
23:58the top five officers are 26 to 34 years
24:02old but they're performing really quite
24:05well and they're competing against
24:07people like McDonald's and other fast
24:09food with a lot of experience and
24:12they're they're flourishing right now in
24:14so age and experience are not a
24:17guarantee of success right and there are
24:20a lot of examples where young people are
24:22changing the world we've seen that here
24:24in technology in the valley but
24:26increasingly we're seeing it in consumer
24:28products and retail you're seeing it in
24:30fast-food you're seeing it in online
24:33commerce you know so I think it's time
24:35for us who kind of have the silver hair
24:38or the more mature thing to really start
24:40to think younger right about how we
24:42approach business about business models
24:44and I'd use the word thing differently
24:46but that'd be such a play off Apple
24:48there's obviously a lot of truth to that
24:50right to thrive in today's world you got
24:53to really challenge all those old
24:54assumptions I want to ask you guys both
24:57about a great sort of brand purchasing
25:01experience you've had recently and it
25:02can't be Walker & Company is there
25:05anything that comes to mind that that
25:07you know we should be paying attention
25:08to as a good example and or just a good
25:11experience to go out and try my answer
25:14is no that's a problem
25:17right I have not in a very long time at
25:22a very delightful offline retail
25:25shopping experience okay Ron yeah you
25:29know here in the bay or there's a coffee
25:32company called Phil's which charges
25:35about a dollar more a cup and then
25:37Pete's or Starbucks but every time I go
25:39by their stores the lines out the door
25:42and what their secret is is they
25:44personalize every cup for the customer
25:47you know today people want it now but
25:49they want it personal they want it
25:51special and the employees that work
25:53there are valued for the uniqueness
25:54they're valued for what makes them
25:57special and they're allowed to express
26:00themselves individually and every time
26:03you know coffee shop the employees are
26:06being there that customers love to be
26:09there they clearly don't even mind
26:11waited in line out the door right they
26:13sit around longer in the store you know
26:16so I think Phil's has created through
26:18the starting point a really great cup of
26:21coffee a brand experience that's quite
26:23elevated compared to other coffee shops
26:25and they're being rewarded with
26:27incredible volume you know and so I
26:30think it comes down to the kind of
26:32things you have to do to build a great
26:33experience our probably universal truths
26:36it's really creating a place that
26:38someone wants to be it's having a great
26:40product it's creating a trusted
26:43relationship with that customer that you
26:45can rely upon but it's hard it's really
26:48hard work but I think there are a lot of
26:50examples of it but you got to look to
26:52find them and increase them they're not
26:54coming from the large companies
26:56improving their business they're coming
26:58from the startups that are really
27:00working really hard to take a set of
27:02values and to honor those and execute
27:04those every day with every customer yeah
27:07you really have to search for it well on
27:09that note I I feel like I want a cup of
27:12coffee from Phil's and I definitely want
27:14to shave so magic over
27:16Tristan thank you so much for joining us
27:19on you as well thank you all right we're
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