00:00hi I'm Hannah and welcome to the a 16z
00:03podcast the phrase personal brand is
00:05something of a cliche but we all know
00:07we're supposed to have one so what does
00:09it really mean and how do you go about
00:10actually creating one in this episode a
00:1316 Z's Margot Vetta mockers and alex
00:16constantinople CEO of the Outkast agency
00:19both break it down into basics and also
00:22give us a sense of nuance on how best to
00:23think of a personal brand this podcast
00:26was recorded as part of the breakline
00:27tech program for military veterans so I
00:31just thought we would start with a
00:32really basic question just to lay a
00:35little groundwork which is what do you
00:37think a personal brand actually is how
00:38do you how would you define it I think
00:41in a nutshell it's basically what people
00:42think or say about you when you're not
00:45in the room that's how you should think
00:48about what your brain what is what is
00:50your reputation what is the association
00:52that you occupy in someone's mind and so
00:56that's that's in a nutshell what it is
00:58if you think of companies are easier
01:01than people if you think of Apple you
01:03probably think of design and elegant
01:06products if you think of virgin you
01:09probably think of the Reverend and fun
01:11like those are that those are the brand
01:13attributes that you think of not even
01:15consciously necessarily and not really
01:17what defines a brand yeah I mean the
01:19good news is just being conscious about
01:21it actually will help you so I think
01:22while it is a huge part of what others
01:25say about you I do think it's what you
01:27choose to put it out into the world as
01:29much I mean it's actually more important
01:31so let's say we're you're starting
01:33totally from scratch you you know who
01:35you are you know what you've done you
01:36know your resume says but how do you go
01:39about step one to finding what your
01:40personal brand is what we usually do is
01:43we'll have an executive come in and
01:45really just do a whiteboard session and
01:47we really start with vibe talk to your
01:49neighbor if I talk to your to your
01:50parents or your partner's or your best
01:53friends or your co-workers what would
01:54they say about you we find that's an
01:56easier entry point then if I say give me
01:59adjectives it feels weird like I am the
02:01smartest the prettiest it's harder to
02:04get it out of people who's just awkward
02:06right to feel like this is who I am but
02:08this is how we usually just really start
02:11and then the next question the most
02:13as you're thinking for yourselves is
02:16also what kind of leader am i what what
02:19is it that I want to put out into the
02:21world and how people see how do I want
02:23to be and this can be aspirational all
02:25of this by the way it might not be who
02:27you are today you might be like you know
02:28I've gotten feedback I mean my 360s that
02:30I've gotten from my GE past to now are
02:32hilariously the same it's sad I'm not
02:35happy about it but there are some
02:36feedback points in there the one where I
02:38can't get rid of that you know and so I
02:40think being conscious about it like how
02:41what are some of those things that the
02:43way I lead that I want to be seen and
02:46how do I get there which is per P of
02:48this and then really your expertise is a
02:50big part how do you want to be seen out
02:52in the world this is where more if
02:53you've heard the phrase thought
02:54leadership when you're out more in the
02:56external world what do you want to be
02:58known for what are you really really
03:00good at what can you own as an expert I
03:02mean that can be subject matter it can
03:04be super broad or very very narrow and
03:06all of the above and then the last for a
03:08personal brand I think is really
03:09everything about you because you can't
03:11leave I find you can't leave your your
03:13personal stuff at home you can't leave
03:15that you might love the outdoors and
03:17you're more an adventure it helps round
03:18out the picture you love to read you
03:20love to be with your family like that is
03:22you and if you come to a job I find
03:24without your full self you can't have
03:26the most value and so we don't leave
03:28that off as soft stuff it's really
03:30important that you you are authentically
03:32you what another way of getting at this
03:34is thinking about story when you're
03:35saying all that I'm thinking like well
03:37that's so much information I mean how do
03:39you know what the story is that pulls it
03:42all together what's a good way of
03:43thinking about that that's to out this
03:46point earlier that is where you have a
03:48fair amount of control right like what
03:50what are the anecdotes that you want to
03:52share right like what's what's the part
03:54in your childhood that shaped you that
03:56made you join forces or that made you
03:59the leader that you are a Tague you can
04:01control all of those anecdotes if you
04:03think of like a very carefully crafted
04:06brand whatever you think of the person
04:08out is um this woman sheryl sandberg you
04:10all know who she is right well if you
04:13hear her speak or if you read her book
04:14or if you see her on TV there was always
04:18a story about when they were kids she
04:20was managing her siblings right she put
04:23that out there right so a good way to
04:27version could be is if you read take any
04:30of your favorite magazine and read a
04:32personal profile that someone has
04:34written about a business leader is
04:37probably the most relevant example or an
04:38athlete or whatever and sort of look at
04:40okay what would my version of that be
04:43right like what how would I fill out
04:45paragraph one three seven right click
04:48and you see once you dissect an article
04:50it becomes not as black box voodoo ish
04:54as it seems when you when you first
04:55think about brand right you go like oh
04:57they have their family interests they
05:00have their childhood experience they
05:01have their expertise they have like and
05:03you can deconstruct the story and then
05:05if you take one of those articles go
05:07like okay if I had to write a story
05:09about me or if you I want it there story
05:11written about me what would be in that
05:13story and that gives you a control over
05:16what it is and also helps you build the
05:19body of how you talk about yourself so
05:21are there things though that you think
05:22universally make a good story you know
05:25that that you look for when you're
05:26helping people do this characteristics
05:28that you save that so I think it depends
05:30like we haven't even talked about like
05:32we've talked about what is your brand
05:34how do you want to describe yourself we
05:36haven't talked about like how you put it
05:37out in the world right so that that's a
05:39whole we want to come to you next which
05:41we which we want to come to but when you
05:44think of stories that other people tell
05:46about you like a magazine article or
05:49something they always want some tension
05:51and that's fine as long as I think
05:55there's a happy ending at the end right
05:57intention can be anything from a tough
06:01childhood or a really tough mission to
06:04the extent that you can talk about it or
06:06you know what countries for you to point
06:07and whatnot right but they all want some
06:10tension they want they want the reader
06:12to go along and go like okay I want to
06:14read the next thing right it can't just
06:15be like here's my picture perfect resume
06:18and like yay nobody wants to read that
06:21right like we don't even want to read
06:22that I wouldn't say if their lessons
06:25learned people really like yes
06:26what have what can you bring to somebody
06:29else and and so it I love I love people
06:31who put themselves out there and a
06:33little more vulnerable and I think I
06:35know that is hard so being able to say I
06:37tried this where this was something
06:40didn't work but I learned X from this I
06:42think is a great way to think about that
06:44particular tension just last night I was
06:47reading your profiles and I was like one
06:49we shouldn't be talking you should be
06:50talking but there are great stories in
06:53there right like one of you tried to
06:55land one of those planes and that they
06:57don't quite work out raise your hands
07:04but I was reading that in like look it's
07:07stuck with me so there are amazing
07:09stories I thought these profiles were
07:10really really interesting to read and
07:12there's a lot of good stuff in there
07:13where I thought like oh my god they have
07:15a lot to work with and also thank you
07:17for all the stuff that you've done yeah
07:19so maybe this is totally obvious but
07:21does everybody need a personal best then
07:25I mean even if you're interested in a
07:27job where say you don't want to put your
07:29opinions out there that mine I do this
07:31with college graduates I do this anybody
07:32who needs to tell you know to be you're
07:35going out into the world doing something
07:37I feel like you need to think about this
07:41and it's if you think of the startup
07:43world here in Silicon Valley most of
07:45them they language in obscurity you do
07:48want to stand for something you want to
07:50be remember you want to be remembered
07:52for something you know as much as there
07:54are a gazillion jobs out here right like
07:56everybody needs to curl like okay I want
07:58this person because they struck me as
08:00such such and such and such and a brand
08:02doesn't have it doesn't mean Fame I
08:05think people who confuse brand with Fame
08:07if you have a powerful brand with the
08:10right twenty people that maybe it yeah
08:13it doesn't have to be fame it's not like
08:15you don't have to be on CNN or whatever
08:18like no when no one's saying that but
08:20you just want to have a deliberate way
08:22of thinking about like wow how do I want
08:24people to think of me I wish there was
08:25another name for it I think especially
08:29personal brand I found it was when I
08:31spent the majority of my time in New
08:33York in DC before I came out here and
08:35personal brand there was no big deal
08:38here it's sort of like oh I don't want
08:40one of those like that sounds too much
08:41for me the personal brand yeah I can
08:43turn people off because they certainly
08:45if they came up through the technology
08:47and the engineering side it's very
08:48uncomfortable it's like I don't want to
08:49be I only do go out there only do my
08:53it's good for the company but I'm really
08:55not interested and they're kind of
08:56missing the point because Tamar gets
08:58point it's not necessarily that the next
09:00step which can be for people then what's
09:02the communications plan against your
09:04personal brand and that can be okay
09:06start talking at these places and giving
09:08these kinds of speeches and let's work
09:10toward you know this kind of profile in
09:12this kind of publication that will help
09:13your business grow but I think for
09:16purposes of just any executive and I've
09:18literally done them for professors for
09:21you know scientists people who you
09:23wouldn't think this would be but it
09:25really could work with anybody because
09:26it's just a way to frame your activities
09:29what we also say to a lot of executives
09:30no matter what level it really also
09:32helps you as a filter for your time if
09:34the activities you're doing and you're
09:36gonna get asked to do a lot of things
09:37right if it doesn't necessarily fit
09:39within what you've laid out for yourself
09:42then I think it's easier to say no it's
09:44like right now I'm focused on this you
09:46know obviously everyone has a favor for
09:47a friend that they'll do but I think it
09:49will help you focus and save you time so
09:51that's another really practical reason
09:53that we try to put this down now it
09:54doesn't mean it won't evolve over time
09:56you can look at it again in five years
09:58time in two years time in a year and say
10:00okay now that I've been doing that Keith
10:01that does this feel right because I
10:04think we do want to push ourselves all
10:06to be aspirational the other side of the
10:08coin is like brand happens to you
10:10whether you want to or not like people
10:13will describe you in their head so would
10:16you rather have some say in what that is
10:18or do you just want it to kind of let it
10:21right so it just happened I mean think
10:22of business executives that you admire
10:24or hate or whatever like you have
10:26opinions about them right and so would
10:28you love their shape how people perceive
10:30you and have it be true to yourself and
10:33what you want it to be or just have it
10:35happen right so just take control like
10:38you are there some examples of people
10:40that you think maybe that I like that
10:41you distinguish between Fame and brand
10:43that yeah I think maybe I'm not on the
10:45famous side but did such a good job of
10:47telling their story and establishing a
10:49brand you mentioned Virgen already I
10:51think Richard Briggs yeah I do think
10:52he's done quite a good job of he his the
10:54companies he's built and absolutely are
10:58from him you don't feel a disconnect
11:00he doesn't say things that then don't
11:02show up in his companies and so it's the
11:04only business I think that has
11:07brand that's consistent across very dad
11:10yes he's a horizontal growth so it's
11:11like you know mobile to hotels to
11:14Airlines to right oh yeah it's crazy and
11:18but but it's that thread through works
11:20and then the way he jumps out of planes
11:22and it doesn't have insurance like seems
11:25to work absolutely works it absolutely
11:28works another person I think who's done
11:30consistently a good job of their brand
11:32is Warren Buffett yeah he's very
11:35authentic he's got that folksy style but
11:38he's also smart you know he shows up
11:41consistently and I think he's done a
11:43really lovely job of managing his brand
11:46and I'm not even sure he's consciously
11:48doing it maybe he's just lucky and
11:50gifted um sometimes people are more
11:53gifted than others another person who
11:55hasn't actually doesn't even tell her
11:57story but I think has done a good job is
11:59Angela Merkel over in Germany I think
12:02she's just like no-nonsense right it's
12:05not a flashy brand it's it's not a you
12:08know let me use my feminine charm brand
12:10at all it's just like you know she is
12:15who she is and she's just like boom she
12:18keeps marching right so I think she's
12:20done a good job and then the example of
12:22someone whose brand has changed a lot
12:25for the better will be Bill Gates mm-hm
12:29if you you know some of you're too young
12:31but like he was just particularly in
12:33Silicon Valley but I think widely hated
12:36because of their hard core business
12:39behavior and now he is like one of the
12:41most admired men rightly so one of the
12:43most admired human beings now it's easy
12:45when you have that much money to throw
12:47at the problem but still a lot of people
12:50have quite a bit of money and don't
12:51bother to try and improve the world so I
12:53think I think he's a good one that makes
12:55me think of you mentioned authenticity
12:56and like the role that authenticity
12:58plays in it I mean how do you avoid
13:00feeling over produced or over I think it
13:03starts with if you're trying to portray
13:06something that you truly are not if so
13:09let's just say you are hardcore
13:12competitive then don't try and make your
13:16brand be like I'm a little puppy dog
13:17right it's just not going to work just
13:20who you are right and I'm sure there's
13:23an OK version of who you are and and own
13:26that right so that's step one and
13:27authenticity and then Facebook and
13:29Twitter and snapchat and whatever else
13:31there is that they just demand
13:33authenticity because it's so easily
13:35detectable if it's someone else doing
13:38the writing or if these photos are too
13:41curated from a Content point of view
13:43make it who you are like everybody has
13:46features and bugs in Silicon Valley
13:47parlance right like I have a lot of bugs
13:49but you've got to find the place where
13:50the features are values right and you're
13:52gonna be successful in those jobs and
13:54not in others well it's ok so let's talk
13:56about logistics a little bit yeah and
13:57platforms you've made your list of
13:59adjectives you know you've figured out
14:01you've sort of how do you actually go
14:02about getting it out there and like are
14:04all platforms you have to be on all
14:06platforms all the time and well that's
14:08uh I mean that's an entire book of a
14:11conversation but to start with let's
14:14just assume you've done not just the
14:15adjectives but also like here's my story
14:18right here sort of here's the biography
14:20that there's not sort of your official
14:22resume that you send out in the world I
14:23would start with if it's something you
14:26love if you've done a lot of speaking as
14:28part of your work if it's something you
14:29love like go to town try to get the TED
14:31talk but don't try to get the Ted dog if
14:33it's not something you really love
14:35because the worst thing that you can do
14:37is just sort of do a very high profile
14:39thing and then just fail it miserably it
14:42feels like it doesn't feel good and then
14:44B just doesn't do you any favors so I
14:46would start if it's not something that's
14:48totally natural to you I would start
14:50with something really small
14:51uncomfortable I know it could be your
14:53alumni newsletter it could be you know
14:56it could be very very small and then the
15:00other thing I would say is not every
15:03medium is for everyone so i'll use marc
15:06andreessen example like if i do Q&A he's
15:10brilliant he's just very good at the
15:13repartee the question and answers being
15:15quick on your feet getting to the heart
15:17of the matter and then he talks fast and
15:19the whole thing works right just find
15:21what you are if you if you are good at
15:23speaking speak if you're good at writing
15:25right now if you're good at speaking you
15:27still need to write because I want to
15:29make sure that what you say is like
15:30really deliberate and what
15:32not but like everybody is different
15:34there are things like LinkedIn and
15:37medium right where you can share things
15:38like what Alex are saying like lessons
15:41learned or or tips or you know like
15:43those kinds of things then obviously
15:46there's there's press which is the least
15:48controllable because whatever you say it
15:51goes through their filter and like they
15:52end up what gets used and how and all of
15:54that so I'm sure you know pitfalls but
15:57it also is in some ways the most
15:59credible because it's not just you doing
16:01your own talking but a third party who
16:04may have their readership and whatnot
16:05but there all kinds of options I will
16:07bring it back to in case you that none
16:09of that is where you are right it's
16:11actually within a job it's what
16:14activities are you doing and what are
16:16those are you doing the kind of work
16:18that you want to be doing are there
16:19projects that you want to be on I think
16:22there's also ways to use this for your
16:23advantage within a company or within
16:26your environment and maybe it is more
16:28you know community advocate as well on
16:31the side and then what are you doing to
16:32do that right you know do you want to
16:34sign up for something do you want to
16:35participate in a non-profit like
16:37whatever those other things are that
16:38also get me included so I think there's
16:40a quieter way also to think about the
16:42execution of a personal brand exercise
16:45that that can be how do you show up
16:47wherever you are just to add another
16:49thing okay it can also be like maybe you
16:52want to create your own personal network
16:55let's say you're here you have a job it
16:57could be just like you Corral a bunch of
16:59people you have dinners it shapes as
17:02Alex put saying so eloquently it shapes
17:04your activities and also what you say
17:07and like what you focus on and and what
17:10you want to impart how do you know when
17:12it's working I mean when he is it
17:13followers is it like getting you getting
17:15places published when do you know like
17:18this is I'm telling the right stories
17:19companies spent millions of dollars
17:21doing brand studies and they'll do
17:23things like sentiment analysis and
17:25Twitter followers and all that kind of
17:27stuff I think you know when it's working
17:30and I think you know when it's not and
17:32it sounds like a pat answer and maybe
17:34Alex can help me refine it but are you
17:36working in the right job is that
17:38fulfilling do you feel like you're
17:40connecting well with people are you
17:41spending your time on activities that
17:43you enjoyed you feel like your expertise
17:46to me it's like are you working on
17:49something that you think is important
17:51that's larger than just yourself and do
17:53you feel like you play a meaningful role
17:55in it if you keep running into trouble
17:57or if you keep not interacting well with
17:59people then yes then I think it's time
18:01to revisit it and go like okay what's
18:03what's not working here I actually wrote
18:05down three things off of mine that I
18:08wanted to use as a temperature check
18:10which I keep looking at so you would
18:11have you could have your own version of
18:13this but mine was am i growing and
18:15developing so actually one of the
18:16reasons I took this job is at first I
18:18was like no thanks this is like pre lean
18:19lean in territory and I was like I can't
18:22I just had my third kid as a surprise
18:24like oh my god and then running a
18:25company I don't think so I've never been
18:26trained for that and then I was like no
18:28this is this matches growth and
18:30development I'm gonna push myself I'm
18:31gonna throw up probably every day
18:38totally true for the first year I'm over
18:41it now growth and development was one
18:42adding value was a big one because that
18:45is are you and I have two versions about
18:47which is am I able to do what I do best
18:50at the job I'm in am i bringing
18:52everything am I able they accepting what
18:54I am giving basically and that was also
18:56the personal part and I actually I think
18:58I'm successful because it's all of me in
19:00that whole brand platform page and then
19:02the last one is just the fun it is my
19:04thing that you may have another one but
19:06for me I think I've almost 48 just been
19:08like you know what I am NOT working with
19:10people even on your crappiest day I was
19:13gonna say shittiest but I'm trying to
19:14work on your crappiest day that you
19:17can't have a little bit of a laugh or be
19:18like what the eff is happening you know
19:20or whatever you know and I you just have
19:22to have that so that's my thing so you
19:24will have your own things but I think
19:26that's another way of thinking about it
19:28in the frame that you're us so what if
19:30you mess up on a less happy note what if
19:32you put something out there and then
19:33you're like whoops that's totally
19:35doesn't feel like me or you get a bad
19:36reaction with it you have a famous
19:38phrase never wasted never waste a crisis
19:43my way of coping so there's the company
19:47version of this person if you mess up
19:48right like what what do you how do you
19:50handle yourself right what do you do
19:53because there are no secrets we all know
19:56this right in theory we all know this
19:58and then we try to forget it when it
20:00applies to us but there are no secrets
20:01it's really not if you've tweeted
20:03something just own it own it and move on
20:07just own it interesting nothing with the
20:09PWC thing from the Oscars right and I've
20:12seen all the coverage Liz they are
20:14taking it on the chin big time the
20:16chairman actually came out and quoted
20:18I always appreciate I'm sure you do is
20:20just a regular consumer think of brands
20:21that have messed up whether it's a food
20:23brand and something happened or you know
20:25just saying we did this we're sorry
20:27here's what we're gonna do to fix it
20:28right yeah I always tell them I should
20:30do it yeah I mean you probably already
20:31tell your kids that like just own it and
20:33say you made the mistake and I'm you're
20:35not gonna get as much trouble if you'd
20:36make eight lies and make me hunt you
20:38down in condition we want to forgive we
20:41just want to feel heard why do I feel
20:44hurt and then we're ready to forgive but
20:46if you're lying to us you cannot get Ben
20:49we get very neatly and obsessed and
20:51whatnot so in your own experience and
20:53building your own no personal brand what
20:56do you felt like was the hardest or what
20:57was the most challenging for you I would
21:00say the hardest and most rewarding it
21:02was coming out here not knowing anybody
21:04I mean my whole network was a completely
21:07different network and I moved here much
21:09like it I think that you guys are and
21:10that was just hard because it was sort
21:12of this blank slate of like nobody knows
21:13me so that's kind of Awesome
21:16and what do I want to be so starting
21:19over I think in making that transition I
21:22think can be very challenging but
21:24incredibly rewarding you just have to be
21:26patient and I think best times coming
21:28out of that I was just extremely
21:29thoughtful and I've never made a quote
21:32unquote mistake in my career yet so far
21:34landing I did a lot of due diligence
21:35I've really thought about you know what
21:37kind of company do I want to work for
21:39what's the what brand you know is it
21:41like how will my story I'm not a planner
21:43so I'm not a my five-year plan and my
21:45ten-year plan and I'm gonna be this and
21:47I'm definitely not gonna run for
21:47president 20:34 in holy hell you know
21:50but I do think I've been along the way
21:52to to sort of combat that mmm-hmm scared
21:55about it just trying to be really
21:57thoughtful and not rushing a decision or
21:59not rushing into it not looking at a
22:01whole company or not looking at the
22:03people that I'm gonna be working with
22:04and the kind of work and can I be
22:06successful so mine was when I was
22:10Castes we sort of had made a decision it
22:13is going to be all about the clients and
22:15we are not going to be out there and
22:18vocal maybe that was my excuse for not
22:21doing anything but like my my belief was
22:24you don't ever want to be in the news
22:27and have your client going like what is
22:29she spending her time on while I'm
22:32paying right I just didn't sit right so
22:34I kept a very low profile I basically
22:38did nothing and then when I joined here
22:41mark essentially sort of challenged me
22:44we didn't force me he said like I would
22:45HIGHLY encourage he's very convincing
22:46highly encouraged she she like up your
22:49brand profile a little bit and that was
22:50really weird like it was so ironic right
22:54I'm sitting here something like you
22:55should work on your brand and Here I am
22:57hiding in a corner right so he caught me
22:59on it and it was really difficult at
23:02first so I did things that were
23:03comfortable I did dinners I did dinners
23:06with reporters and like that somebody
23:08wrote a story on me out of that which we
23:10didn't like we didn't work on that it
23:12just kind of happened happened
23:14organically and then I always have like
23:16my happy home place Germany of the
23:18Germans like want to talk to me all the
23:20time because there's so few Germans in
23:22Silicon Valley and there's all this tech
23:23tourism happening now so if I'm more
23:25like an easy win I just go talk to the
23:27Germans all right fine but like that's
23:30that's why I was saying like find where
23:32you're comfortable right and so and work
23:34your way into it and it doesn't have to
23:36be pressed as Alex are saying find your
23:38way where you're comfortable and kind of
23:40worm your way into it that's a great
23:41note to end on and we'll take some
23:43questions if anybody has to ask away
23:45thank you very much for being with us
23:48most of us were transitioning out of the
23:50military right and so we're in this
23:51space of somewhat recreating ourselves
23:54trying to you know downplay even though
23:58we're proud of our achievements in the
23:59military you're trying to connect the
24:01dots where people see you being in a
24:03executive space or being in the tech
24:07industry so while we're transitioning
24:10there is all the advice you gave the
24:12same and then or or also maybe when you
24:15get more specific of where you
24:17specifically a company or industry that
24:19you want to go in to do how do you shift
24:21how is that brand shifting
24:23happening and can you do this by
24:25yourself or or is it something that
24:27you'd actually need to hire someone you
24:30can definitely do it by yourself I think
24:32the interesting thing is on the stories
24:33it's what translates it's what is the
24:35activities and the work that you did in
24:37your military experience a lot of the
24:40leadership skills in general without
24:42being very specific to what each company
24:45does and what you'll need to do in that
24:46company finding those bridges of the
24:49work that you did and the kinds of teams
24:50that you ran and oversaw project
24:53management like take those very basic
24:54things that are core to any leader
24:57anywhere and map those for people with
24:59just with your experience yeah and I
25:01would say I mean you're gonna laugh and
25:03and rightfully so but Silicon Valley
25:05thinks of themselves as a place of
25:07disruption which means it those are
25:09uncertain environments that are wobbly
25:12they can shift any second and a company
25:14that's hot now is not tomorrow and
25:16whatnot and it's full of people with
25:21engineering degrees but not a lot of
25:23actual sort of real-world experience so
25:26what do you guys do you guys go into
25:29uncertain environments and make stuff
25:31work basically out of nothing so I think
25:34that's highly highly applicable and so
25:38you just need to find out the specifics
25:39of how you've led and explain those in
25:42plain English but like we need so much
25:44of that because a lot of the the folks
25:47here they are running large companies
25:50but like they've never run a thing
25:52they're out of a dorm into their new
25:55dorm with kombucha so someone like you
26:02coming in there's like alright people
26:04here is how are we going to go is a
26:07thing of beauty and I think that that
26:08should be highly highly transferable and
26:10desired thanks for both your time the
26:13idea of who you are is much more
26:15multifaceted than this just this is my
26:17brand this is what I want to be seen for
26:19like it can be situational independent
26:21it can change on your life circumstances
26:22and it can income you know I may need to
26:25be a jerk in this situation and that's
26:27who I have to be in in this situation
26:28I'm not how do you encompass all that
26:31authentically into into one brand
26:33without having to like hide this side of
26:37brand is not trying to prescribe every
26:40detailed behavior in every situation but
26:43I think you know having to be a jerk in
26:45a situation that's just sort of
26:46adjusting your management style right
26:48but I think if you have three or four
26:50three we like three brand actives it
26:53gives you a well-rounded body of like
26:55the essence of who you are it doesn't
26:57describe every behavior and it's also
26:59not static I mean if you looked at me
27:02funny when I was a teenager I would be
27:03blushing and I rarely spoke and I can
27:07speak now static as I think we might
27:13have made it sound I'm finding that it's
27:16okay to associated with a startup that
27:19fails it's actually positive for a lot
27:21of people but it's very negative it
27:23seems to be associated with a stolid
27:25old-fashioned company who may be
27:27successful but if you go there and your
27:30career you're you're quickly known as
27:32one of those guys not good enough to
27:35make it at a you know high growth I
27:39think when I I still lived this this is
27:42literally where I came here I got to
27:45yeah my first job riki persons moving
27:47here was with Wired magazine so that was
27:49sort of my first kind of a couple years
27:50which was great and I got to learn the
27:51space then I got to outcast and it's
27:53like my G enos is to be worked on
27:55startups and we're like uh-oh like that
27:58is how embarrassing for you basically
28:00and I think that was part of my year of
28:02feeling horrible like all this stuff I
28:04learned then I realize you know what all
28:05of the stuff I learned through osmosis
28:07through being in boardrooms they're just
28:09my experience traveling around the world
28:11is actually bigger so I had to sort of
28:14move from feeling really bad about
28:16right and that it was a it was an
28:18albatross and I have to say I over
28:19rotated a little bit in the beginning I
28:21tried to bring like too much project
28:22management or think or too much process
28:24to the company I think in the beginning
28:26and then I found my way you know but he
28:28was saying like this seems too much
28:30right so I learned also a lot of like
28:32not necessarily my way was always the
28:34right way so learning to be flexible
28:36like a start-up I think was hugely
28:37valuable but you you will get that a lot
28:39of startups don't have that experience
28:41of how to run you know a big company and
28:43that is actually what they all aspire to
28:45so it's sort of ironic I think there's
28:46the chatter yeah and then there's like
28:48we you know we have an executive talent
28:50when a startup gets certain a level of
28:53momentum they actually do want someone
28:55who has sold to big customers before oh
28:59who has worked in a big security
29:02department before or like they do do
29:04that there's like the what's cool and
29:06there's like Forbes doesn't list off
29:07like the 30 under 30 and the 20 under 20
29:10and like nobody does the 60 but like you
29:14do you know I think in the real world
29:17once companies get to a certain scale
29:19they actually do want the experience and
29:21they do want sort of the big company
29:23nests but I do think you'll pick up when
29:25you're interviewing or talking to these
29:27companies you easily can pick pick that
29:29up I think there are some founders who
29:30aren't very good at the this is the way
29:33I did it at Microsoft and then and you
29:35can you can feel it very quickly though
29:36they're not interested and then it's
29:38just you know fine good to know or not
29:40your place or maybe that is your place
29:42because you don't want to be like myself
29:43one more maybe hi thank you so much for
29:46your candor by the way it's very
29:48we don't have work so we've had a lot of
29:52feedback on translating military skills
29:55into civilian skillsets and things like
29:56that and really what that boils down to
29:58is branding in a way and one of the
30:00things that I think is pretty universal
30:02throughout the military is the ability
30:04to be you know an athlete and do a ton
30:06of things all at the same time I think
30:08the problem with that with our personal
30:10branding efforts is how do you portray
30:14the fact that hey I have a lot of
30:15different skill sets without coming
30:17across as contradictory I think my
30:19concern is just that if we do brand
30:21ourselves as this athlete that can come
30:22in and do a lot of things it'll come
30:25across as we're sort of a jack of all
30:27trades and a master of none and you did
30:29kind of touch on it but how do we keep
30:32from being I guess pigeon-holed mm-hmm
30:35into like the standard military oh
30:38you're a military member so you need to
30:40do this specific thing and kind of would
30:42you say that you can you were wide and
30:44deep though yeah that's how that's how I
30:46would phrase it right that you can go
30:48wide like wherever you're gonna go
30:49you're gonna be successful because you
30:51know how to go deep and then think of it
30:53exactly maybe you know two examples
30:55where you did that like we say that all
30:58the time even where we do our portfolio
31:00companies we work with is everything
31:01from Patagonia to Amazon
31:03- Airbnb and microbiome company right so
31:07when they came to us they were like well
31:08do you have life sciences and like no
31:10but we know we know we know that what do
31:12we do right we'll learn really quickly
31:14on life sciences like we get up to speed
31:16we know it's so many industries but then
31:18we go deep you know once we get so we
31:20know it there's a way to get smart and
31:21then we can go deep but we are not and
31:24then we own it by the way we say we're
31:25not a life sciences agency if that's
31:27what you want we can make recommendation
31:29for you but I can't pretend to be
31:31and then usually they're like ooh or
31:33they're like thanks we'll be moving on
31:35so you just that's okay like I would
31:37rather say that they'd be like yes we
31:38can do that for you and then you get in
31:40there and you're like like there's no
31:42way I can do that right public cause
31:44there's so much winging it all right
![How To Succeed As A NEW & YOUNG Realtor [Deals Every Month + Luxury Listings]](/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FrtrRghgTayc%2Fhqdefault.jpg&w=3840&q=75)
