00:00hi everyone welcome to the a 6nz podcast
00:02today we're talking about guest spots
00:04and to cover that topic and all its
00:07wonderful glory we have with us Benedict
00:09Evans our in-house analyst and expert on
00:11all things mobile and beyond
00:13we have Connie Chen our partner who
00:16covers all things China including
00:17messaging and payments and various
00:19threads related to how these phenomena
00:21are playing out internationally
00:22particularly in China and we also have a
00:25suggest Chris Messina who is previously
00:27at Google he's currently at uber and
00:29developer relations he's widely credited
00:31with proposing the first use of hashtag
00:33on Twitter so you can blame him for that
00:35whole phenomena or thank him for it and
00:37more salient Lee for this conversation
00:39he's been a longtime advocate of the
00:41open web and was an early proponent of a
00:43auth this conversation was recorded
00:45right after Facebook's f8 event last
00:48week so it focuses on the news that came
00:50out around messenger and BOTS a platform
00:53for BOTS as a lens to have a broader
00:55conversation about many different
00:56threads around BOTS everything from chat
00:58as an interface conversational commerce
01:01just the topic of what comes next for
01:03messaging and mobile and especially as
01:05computing moves into our lives in more
01:07diffuse ways so let's get started today
01:10we want to talk about BOTS in the
01:11context of yesterday's Facebook news and
01:13I think we should take a step back and
01:14talk about what that news is but also
01:16more broadly like why are bots in the
01:19conversation and also just this I mean
01:21do you guys even agree with this notion
01:23that there's like it's like it was a web
01:24and now it's apps and now it's BOTS and
01:26by the way we should probably start by
01:27talking about what the hell a bot is in
01:29the first place so there's different
01:31ways you can come in this question so
01:33what Facebook is announced is a
01:36platforms alerts of brand talk to you
01:38inside facebook messenger it sends a
01:41message you apply it can see the message
01:43in produce a response and the message is
01:46from the brand can a bit more
01:48sophisticated than just a bit of text in
01:50that they can be a card they can have a
01:51couple of calls to action they can put
01:53three or four cards up that you can
01:54disappoint back and forth which means
01:56that you don't have to know what you can
01:57ask in the way that you would otherwise
01:59you don't you're not faced with just
02:01kind of a blank command-line it the way
02:02you would with like an SMS service that
02:04you might have been using 15 or 20 years
02:05ago you get a little bit more of kind of
02:08an interactive model and so they've
02:11launched there's a payment multiplier
02:13in there there's a few other bits and
02:15pieces very oddly there's no sort of
02:17social viral mechanic in it which we can
02:19talk about a bit later and this fits
02:22into like two or three big industry
02:26preoccupations like there is one
02:28preoccupation which is AI and natural
02:31language processing and the sense that
02:34you can sort of say you can talk to the
02:35bot and it understands what you said and
02:37send something back there's a second
02:39preoccupation which is finding like
02:42another run time after the web and
02:45mobile apps preferably on on mobile in
02:48which you can create experiences
02:50preferably one that comes with sign of
02:52some kind of user acquisition or
02:54engagement model that's better than the
02:55App Store and better than PageRank
02:57because there's a sort of elemental
02:59thing that everyone worries about with
03:01apps is well how do we get people to
03:02install our app and so the sense of if
03:04it's well is if it's just a chat board
03:05inside messenger or WeChat or something
03:07then you don't have to get people to go
03:10and then there's a sort of a third run
03:13third question in here as well I think
03:15which is sort of Facebook sitting on
03:17other people's platform and the
03:19smartphone itself is kind of is a
03:21platform for the Internet in a way that
03:23windows was not you targeted the browser
03:25you didn't target windows but on the
03:27smartphone you target the smartphone
03:28operating system and it's not neutral
03:31Apple and Google changed stuff
03:34deliberately or not and that affects how
03:36you can get your users and so Facebook
03:38and to some extent Amazon are sort of
03:40sitting on top of this and thinking well
03:42okay what do we do here how can we live
03:45in this world how can we get to the
03:46point that we can carve out some space
03:48for ourselves so I think those are the
03:49kind of a three kind of mega trends as
03:51like there's the AI question as they
03:54specifically like the bot and the
03:56conversational commerce and the clean
03:57you how do you build a new runtime and
03:59you do that in a messaging app and then
04:01there's Facebook going oh crap we're
04:03running on top of Android and iOS what
04:05do we do about that yeah let's start off
04:06talking about the first two so what do
04:09we think about the Facebook product
04:11itself I felt like it's almost like
04:13we've been talking about when his
04:14facebook gonna copy WeChat for so long
04:16that it's like it's finally happened
04:17starting it's starting it's starting to
04:19look like we chat official accounts did
04:23yeh can you clarify what those look like
04:27so when we chat first launched official
04:29accounts a lot of them were more
04:31text-based as well with very simple very
04:35simple graphics they didn't have the
04:36menus at the bottom just yet and a lot
04:38of official accounts weren't focused on
04:40the web view concept and they opted
04:42within an app but it quickly evolved
04:44into that because the text-based
04:46chatbots just didn't work out and very
04:48few of them got much traction at all why
04:51didn't they work out I think it's
04:53because then in my personal opinion I
04:56think a lot of commerce actually doesn't
04:58need the conversation and I don't think
05:00the dialogue the back-and-forth Chad is
05:03that additive I take customer service
05:06aside from that because that's an
05:07instance where I feel like I want
05:09someone listening I want to pretend that
05:10there's someone on the other side and
05:12things like travel agent or personal
05:14shopping something when you want
05:15personalization that aside though I
05:17think there's a lot of types of Commerce
05:19where I know exactly what I'm looking
05:21for and the back-and-forth Chad actually
05:24slows me down and I think that's what
05:25happened in China and actually in China
05:28the app within an app model is much more
05:30focused on web views as opposed to BOTS
05:32so I actually think BOTS is an
05:33unfortunate name because it kind of
05:35insinuates there's this back-and-forth
05:37conversation happening where I think in
05:40many transactions messenger should be
05:43thought of more as a shortcut a link to
05:46a web view that can give a much broader
05:48richer experience there was a Jake on
05:50Twitter sort of what do we want BOTS
05:51when do we want it so he bought didn't
05:53understand the question you know it's
05:59kind of this it's is if you all you have
06:01is a hammer everything looks like a nail
06:03it's like everything needs to be about
06:04now well there's some interaction
06:06patterns where that's going to work
06:08really well like if you want if you want
06:10if you placed an order online and you
06:11want to change the order or you want to
06:13see if it's available and you want to
06:14ask like an actual quest there's an
06:16actual question you want to ask right
06:17what do you have available is not a
06:20question what are the headlines today is
06:22not a question what shirts do you sell
06:25is actually not a question what you want
06:27is a page that lists shows you all the
06:29headlines or page it shows you all the
06:30shirts when is my order going to arrive
06:32that is a question can I change it for
06:34something else that's the question
06:36and so to Connie's point it's like where
06:38you actually would be it's almost like
06:39where you would be email
06:40Ling yeah then it works where you will
06:43be going to the website and looking for
06:44the support email or the phone number
06:46or maybe opening a support chat on the
06:48website then a board is a much better
06:51way of doing that right and the
06:52unfortunate focus on the baht means it's
06:54in it's in the chat bubble and that's
06:57very limiting from a design perspective
06:58right you you lose the freedom of the
07:01full screen you get a much smaller real
07:03estate piece on the screen and so that's
07:05why the transaction ends up taking
07:06longer in many cases well I think it's
07:08important to mention though that the
07:10chat bubble is relevant in the sense of
07:12identity because part of what messenger
07:14announced is that it Facebook has your
07:17identity they know who you are and I
07:19think that's a key component to this
07:21conversation like how does that fit into
07:22the making that transaction so seamless
07:25cuz the end of the day a user just want
07:27things to be easier regardless of how we
07:28categorize it well there's no reason the
07:30webview can't keep the identity
07:32persistent as well though but it doesn't
07:34I think that actually so the thing
07:36that's so interesting about about this
07:37and I'm actually curious to know more
07:39about the internet in China and why you
07:41know chat would have been a better
07:43platform to launch these services there
07:45than for example here where the web has
07:48been very open it hasn't been censored
07:49and so as a result you know both brands
07:52any commerce companies as well as
07:55advertisers and other folks could build
07:57on it in a very sort of free way and as
08:01a result you get a lot of really you
08:03know 10 15 20 years in you got a lot of
08:05crap and so people are sort of looking
08:07for I think a simpler more universal
08:10experience that's also persistent across
08:12devices and does have some sense of who
08:15they are so the web require being in the
08:17chat so so I feel like one of the things
08:20that would be really interesting I think
08:21for us to talk about is actually
08:22separating canvases and the way in which
08:25you can deliver experiences or services
08:29in these different channels and also
08:31look at where the behavior is so I
08:33actually agree with you that chat isn't
08:35the right thing for all things one of
08:37the the critiques that I got of course
08:38from the piece that I wrote about
08:40conversational commerce was well which
08:42is your critique which is well you know
08:44it doesn't make sense to put everything
08:45in check because it's slow it's stupid
08:46bots are dumb today at least and I
08:49actually completely agree with that like
08:50my background is in design so I would
08:52not be the first person to
08:54you know say let's move everything
08:55that's been done on the web which is
08:57this very immersive environment that's
09:00very interactive very rich you know full
09:02photos like it's great for browsing it's
09:03great for seeing things I spend way too
09:05much money on Amazon because of the
09:07richness of that channel when you go to
09:08the Amazon homepage it's and you're
09:10logged in it's a very personalized
09:12experience and everything is on display
09:14if I go into a chat context that is not
09:16the case I have to poke and I have to
09:18prod and the things that I can do in
09:20that channel aren't necessarily made
09:22available to me in a very obvious way
09:23now that's changing if you look at like
09:25telegram BOTS and so on they advertise
09:27what they can do they sort of tell you
09:28there's sort of like a you know like a
09:29help command that will give you the list
09:32of things that they're available for but
09:33visually I can't just sort of casually
09:35browse and see what's there so that's
09:37actually one of the I think benefits and
09:40constraints about chat and messaging as
09:43as a canvas but that also suggests some
09:46of the limitations that you will have to
09:47hand off to a webview or to video or to
09:51voice or to other things the question I
09:53guess is what is how do you sort of
09:55express the intention of what you're
09:56trying to do and how quickly can you
09:57execute that task this sort of several
10:00bits going on here one of them is like
10:02can you use your can you use an app to
10:05create a better acquisition path and so
10:08you know to look at a completely
10:09different model which is Baidu Maps you
10:11go into body maps and you search for a
10:13service and that you can only search for
10:16stuff that local so to speak so you
10:17search for restaurants you wouldn't
10:18serve as your search for cinemas or you
10:20search for taxis or so on and you have
10:22the services integrated and then you can
10:25go in and tap on them and you'll get a
10:26native interface it won't be a chat
10:28interface at all but you're using the
10:29map as a channel as opposed to just
10:31giving an app store in a search box and
10:33then the same thing in social it feels
10:36like well if you're going to put it into
10:37social you should have some acquisition
10:40model in here and the weird thing to me
10:42about you know opening facebook
10:44Messenger is this like this just like I
10:45say there's four bubbles that they
10:47promoted and then there's a search box
10:49and I go into the sample the kind of the
10:52content partner so they've got and
10:53there's no social model at all though at
10:54all so if I'm a in the commerce vendor
10:57and I've decided I'm going to be on
10:58facebook Messenger there that doesn't
11:00change my acquisition model at all
11:02there's no this isn't giving me
11:04that's that's entirely true I mean for
11:06one thing the thing that is different
11:08about searching in Facebook unlike
11:09Google for example is that it's all sort
11:13of either filtered through your friends
11:14so you can see which if you search for a
11:16service and your friends have liked the
11:17thing you can see which of your friends
11:18have liked the thing and you can also
11:19see on mass on aggregate how many
11:22thousands or hundreds of thousands or
11:23millions of likes a page has and so
11:25that's a different you know PageRank if
11:27you will that's more social and I've
11:30gone in and said right I'm gonna search
11:32for the gap mmm that's not the eve
11:35already solve the problem mm-hm
11:36the question is how do I get people to
11:38know about my service and if you're not
11:40providing that and I think the point is
11:43that webview commerce in many cases not
11:47conversational it's not necessarily
11:48triggered by a chat there is no chat
11:50functionality and by doing maps and in
11:522014 you could already booked a cleaner
11:54on demand through Baidu maps you could
11:57already hire a driver on demand through
11:59Baidu maps you could already buy a
12:01specific seat at a movie theater for a
12:03movie in Baidu maps and there's no chat
12:05functionality or what there whatsoever
12:07and and if you think about WeChat it
12:10it's not fair to classify it as a chat
12:12application and it's not fair to draw
12:14all the conclusions that we chat has
12:17achieved and say that all messaging apps
12:19can achieve that because we chat is much
12:21more an operating system it is much more
12:23of a browser and in a sense any app that
12:27has high frequency use case has log in
12:30and ideally payments data tied to it
12:32could create the same web view commerce
12:36ecosystem I don't think it actually I
12:38think it's limiting to say that it's
12:40conversational based and that it's chat
12:42and messaging this I think that that's
12:44probably fair I think that the challenge
12:46for us is like we're so early in this
12:48shift and there is and has been this
12:51meme which I have nothing to do with and
12:53don't think that it's that useful of
12:54figuring out what the WeChat of the West
12:56is going to be and it's actually not
12:58that interesting of a question it's like
12:59what is actually going to work and what
13:01are people actually going to use right
13:02and so I think given the numbers at
13:04Facebook announced yesterday and the
13:06growth of messenger the numbers you mean
13:08the fact that the use of messenger is
13:10like so much higher than the peak of SMS
13:13which I think was like 20 billion yeah
13:14so the number that they gave was
13:16combined whatsapp and facebook Messenger
13:20have I think about 60 billion messages
13:22sent I think monthly daily okay whereas
13:26SMS was yeah so it's basically like you
13:30know for you there's kind of a weird
13:31strand in here which of course half of
13:33that is whatsapp which has no platform
13:35at all at the moment on their platform
13:36story at all and there's a sort of
13:37there's a strand in here somewhere which
13:39is that Facebook had the newsfeed that
13:42was the first Facebook product and they
13:44port the newsfeed to mobile and it turns
13:46out to work much better on mobile or
13:47even better on mobile than it worked on
13:49the desktop but the beta they've been
13:51there's no way to do a Facebook platform
13:52inside the newsfeed on mobile or lean
13:54rate they didn't do a Facebook well
13:56that's not entirely true I mean these
13:58are all sort of recom positions of
13:59different pieces of content from
14:01different sources right so but it was a
14:03great experience and then I suppose what
14:06but what I was going to get at is that
14:07they went from that and on the desktop
14:08messenger was this sort of interesting
14:10little add-on that they built it was
14:12almost like a 24 someone's 20% project
14:14and then on mobile they decide that
14:15messenger it's almost feels like
14:16messenger is going to be the the the
14:18mobile native product as opposed to the
14:20newsfeed which is kind of the thing
14:22that's ported for been transferred over
14:24from the desktop and so I'm sort of you
14:26know to Connie's point I'm sort of
14:27sitting and thinking okay why are you
14:29deciding that if I'm a retailer and I
14:32want to build a way that people can buy
14:35inside Facebook and that people can
14:37share my products within Facebook why is
14:40that happening in messenger and not in
14:42the newsfeed app and why can't I build
14:45an app inside the newsfeed app so to
14:49where my pages and likes are already
14:50started yeah exactly why does it have to
14:53be conversational or is again is this
14:55gonna go down a path that ends up where
14:57I am gonna get web views inside and
14:59messenger and I can't stress how
15:00important the payments part is in making
15:03this whole ecosystem work
15:05WeChat flourishes because over a third
15:07of their users already have their
15:09banking credentials tied to their
15:10account and that's why so much commerce
15:13can happen with one just one tap and so
15:15if you think about all the apps out
15:17there that already have your payments
15:18credentials and a login and high
15:20frequency they actually have a leg up as
15:23opposed to facebook Messenger I'm
15:24pulling this off so that but but
15:28actually what it's going to be very
15:30to see how one of the big themes that
15:33came out of marks like keynote mr.
15:36Zuckerberg Emily essentially was talking
15:39about how they want to continue growing
15:40Facebook to like the rest of the world
15:41like most the world is not online you
15:43know we are actually in the minority
15:44those of us who have high-speed
15:46bandwidth and so on the thing that's
15:48really interesting about messenger is
15:49that it's a low bandwidth opportunity
15:52for actually reaching people in the
15:53developing world they've done a lot to
15:55really optimize that experience they're
15:57doing things with instant articles to
15:58cut down the loading cost of all these
16:00things and furthermore one of the things
16:02that they launched that is just
16:04mind-blowing to me was the check out
16:06plugins so I don't know if you saw that
16:08but like what they're enabling you to do
16:11is it's essentially start to your point
16:13a rich you know shopping experience on
16:15the web and then tap a button that
16:17actually takes you into the messenger
16:18context whether you're on mobile web
16:21view or desktop web and then complete
16:22the transaction and messenger so a
16:24messenger as an app and as a platform
16:26becomes your credit card sort of in a
16:28sense that you're going into that you
16:30know comfortable familiar place to then
16:33continue the conversation and the
16:35relationship to say I want to actually
16:36checkout and pay inside of the messenger
16:38context and they beat Apple pay to the
16:41web which i think is hugely important
16:43for the developing world and for people
16:45who live in environments that are not at
16:46all like ours so I think about the
16:48failure of the web as the platform it's
16:51because it's so heavy it's because you
16:52know ad blockers are an ascendancy
16:54because the web is so slow for most of
16:56the world that we don't have sensitivity
16:58to that and so when it comes to identity
16:59persisting across devices with payment
17:01information attached the web has
17:04so it's interesting you talk about
17:06identity so this is great piece about
17:07Facebook in in Burma talking about how
17:12Munez Burma went from basically 0 to 15
17:15million mobile phones in about two years
17:16whatever our number is something like
17:18that I would forget the exact number no
17:20only 18 hours drive away from hands then
17:22and so everyone has a smartphone and
17:26everyone has expensive data and everyone
17:30has Facebook on their smartphone and the
17:32way the you get Facebook on your
17:33smartphone is you go to the shop and ask
17:34for it and the guy takes a printout of
17:36300 to log in as and he picks the next
17:38one on the list any love if you win and
17:40if you accidentally get logged out or
17:41you lose your Facebook app on you
17:43we got a new phone you get back to the
17:44shop and he gives you a new facebook
17:46login so the idea that this is about
17:47identity is kind of a Western assumption
17:50that actually those people in Burma are
17:52using Facebook like Twitter with no
17:53connection to their identity at all
17:54they're using it to see funny pictures
17:56of goats and stories about you know
17:58whatever it is but not actually about it
17:59but there's a small percentage of all
18:01Internet transactions there will always
18:02be about Commerce and so you sort of
18:04have to have the context for all the
18:06silly stupid things that people will do
18:07you know in their normal day-to-day
18:09lives when they're not taking the
18:10platform seriously and they're just
18:11using it for you know shits and giggles
18:14that then eventually becomes a platform
18:16that becomes more valuable over time I
18:18mean the the contrast that you might
18:20draw then is like with snapchat or with
18:22kik for example kik is used much more by
18:24teenagers and so on and so the question
18:26is could they ever become a more serious
18:27platform for payments and transactions
18:30as that teen user base grows and matures
18:32or will they actually see a value in
18:34establishing a facebook identity that
18:36actually is more persistent and more
18:37useful I mean they said yesterday that
18:39facebook login is used across 70% of
18:41apps out there in the world so
18:42ultimately people at least this is you
18:45know Facebook's messaging and I'm sure
18:46it's fairly accurate given that I worked
18:48on open ID people hate usernames and
18:50passwords so they're looking for a
18:52simpler easier way to get access so
18:54while I wouldn't dispute the point that
18:56you're making about these sort of new
18:59environments where internet access or
19:01phones and devices are are new I think
19:03with a maturing market that starts to
19:06understand the power and utility of
19:08Internet access and in an internet
19:09identity Facebook is actually a pretty
19:13good platform to build on for the long
19:14term so one question I have is you know
19:18Chris you were working up to this
19:19argument about why conversational
19:21Commerce one question I have is I think
19:23and I think all three of you guys
19:24disagree about this is where you guys
19:25fall in this this discussion of web apps
19:29and now BOTS I mean well I don't think I
19:31mean I think there's a pretty clear
19:32distinction one has to make here which
19:34is there is web and apps and then there
19:35is something else and then one of the
19:37things that that maybe is within a
19:39third-party app on the device it's
19:41clearly also Apple and Google's desire
19:43to create something here and so there's
19:44always a sort of context each year that
19:46facebook says hey this is the future of
19:47interaction on mobile and like six weeks
19:49later Apple and Google say oh sorry kid
19:56and I think actually what Facebook has
19:58done this year is quite sensible in the
20:00delay actually not trying to do stuff
20:02that Apple and Google get to do they're
20:04doing it inside their app but then to
20:05Cody's point is not specific it's
20:07certainly not specific to chat and it
20:10doesn't even have to be specific to
20:11social it can be anyone where you've got
20:13some kind of mechanic for frequent use
20:15into some discovery model now the
20:17obvious alternative so like and the
20:19question is right have you got the
20:20frequent use and the payment have you
20:23got some kind of interaction model where
20:24it makes sense to add more stuff to it
20:26and have you got some kind of discovery
20:28path and so the reason I mentioned by do
20:30maps and Connie wrote a great blog post
20:32about body maps is like there you're not
20:33using social using location as the kind
20:35of filter for how do you discover stuff
20:37and the concern I have looking at um
20:40now then Facebook they could have done
20:42it inside the newsfeed where we wouldn't
20:44be talking about BOTS at all instead
20:45they chose to do it inside messenger
20:47where we are talking about thoughts like
20:49problem the App Store has two million
20:51things in it solution create an app
20:53store inside messenger problem the
20:55messenger app store has two million
20:56things inside it like if you haven't
20:58actually done something you have to do
21:00some other thing all you've done is just
21:02move the problem and say bye that's why
21:04I think body maps is interesting because
21:05you are actually solving a problem
21:07because you're just constraining it to
21:08local services and you will not go in to
21:10buy doom you would not go into Baidu
21:12Maps and search for stuff that isn't
21:13local I mean you might dear but you
21:15wouldnt get a result where is the
21:16problem with the search box in messenger
21:18it's the same as the problem with the
21:19search box in the App Store the problems
21:20of Google search box which you can
21:21search for absolutely anything and it
21:23will give you some kind of answer and
21:24this is a versus my point what I found
21:26really surprising about the messenger
21:28implementation is there's no social
21:31there's no acquisition model here it's
21:32just it's a new channel I think that the
21:34the challenge for me right and and it's
21:37so interesting cuz like there's so many
21:39threads and so many you know edges to
21:40sharpen here because I agree with some
21:42like many of the things you said but I
21:44also disagree with a bunch of other
21:45things so on the point of discovery what
21:47I think will be interesting and we we
21:49really have no way of knowing how this
21:50is going to happen but my feeling in my
21:53sense is that there's a lot of stuff
21:54that will happen probably in the next
21:55five to ten years in terms of you know
21:58you talk about a map and in a really
22:00good sort of immersive map is just
22:01and so if Facebook is actually able to
22:04provide a way for smaller merchants in
22:06smaller environments
22:07towns and places like that to actually
22:09help their customers get in touch with
22:11them not by using the phone not by going
22:13through a teen teen not by going through
22:15Verizon or whatever but simply going
22:16through messenger and through the
22:17Facebook page that they already have
22:18that is actually a huge win for them if
22:21you are business trying to figure out
22:23which platform to build on and all you
22:25hear are about apps in the App Store you
22:27need an app to go out there right I've
22:29consulted with a bunch of nonprofits who
22:30are like oh we have to build an app like
22:31we've got dollars coming in saying you
22:34must have an app build an app I'm like
22:35how are we gonna get discovery no one's
22:36gonna use your app right international
22:38players have the same problem - yeah in
22:40contrast you could build something
22:41whether it's a bot or not whether it's
22:44just being in messenger that allows you
22:45to actually be interactive and see what
22:47happens at a very low cost and
22:48furthermore with a bunch of the things
22:50that Facebook is rolling out which we
22:51probably take for granted and think are
22:52sort of silly there is social discovery
22:54so these can be the messenger codes or
22:56they can be the new URLs they've thrown
22:58out and as well they're actually
23:00focusing a lot more on group dynamics
23:01and I don't know a lot about the stuff
23:03that they're planning but they're
23:05looking at groups and messenger as being
23:07a big way of solving the distribution
23:09problem so the problem that Apple has it
23:11has in our social network the problem
23:12Coogler has is a social network so
23:14there's no place for people to sort of
23:16congregate and share information with
23:17smaller communities of people where this
23:19stuff actually spreads and I'm thinking
23:21of international markets not really in
23:22American markets where the media is a
23:24big part of it and there's hype cycles
23:26and stuff like that where people are
23:28actually going to be sharing the names
23:29of bots or sharing the names of services
23:30and sort of sharing stuff in that way
23:32and that it's going to be a more natural
23:34way for people to discover these things
23:36and for these services to grow it's
23:37gonna be a lot more organic and it's
23:39gonna take time but I think it's a
23:40better answer in a better solution then
23:42go hire some consulting agency to build
23:44you some fold the spoke app that you
23:46know people will download once and
23:47forget about it I think the whole
23:48problem goes back to the distribution
23:49point that Benedict is bringing up
23:50because if you're focusing on onboarding
23:53it's very unclear to me in that
23:54nonprofit example that building a bot is
23:56easier than building a webpage and then
23:59creating a bot that's simply just a link
24:01to the webpage those are hard right but
24:04the point is one will work on all kinds
24:06of platforms and in browsers and one's
24:08only going to work in facebook Messenger
24:09right and actually that's I think
24:11something that's going to hold at the
24:13onboarding of BOTS even onto this new
24:15platform websites don't already have
24:17this programming capability in-house
24:19whereas if you focus much more on web
24:21and use the but as more just a shortcut
24:25to go into the full-on web view you can
24:29on burn accounts much much faster can we
24:31take a step back though and talk why why
24:34people even care about bots in this
24:36paradigm because clearly there is a need
24:38to have conversation in a way that isn't
24:40populating your inbox with all this
24:42extra stuff I mean regardless of how
24:44it's I mean it's not that's not that
24:46it's not irrelevant the design and the
24:47scoping of it but why do we want this
24:50because I don't care about the social
24:52sharing what I want a frictionless
24:53interaction where when I booked a ticket
24:55and my I don't have to go back into my
24:58inbox to find the confirmation if I want
25:00to change my flight that I can just very
25:01easily like just go right into and and
25:03and say like hey this is my new time I
25:06think that's exactly I mean there's
25:08different priorities conflicting here
25:09because there is kind of from the user
25:12point of view that customer service
25:14example of being able to message
25:16somebody on Facebook messenger and there
25:17being a platform where they can do a bit
25:19more than just send you a text reply is
25:21fantastic then the idea of kind of
25:24coming from the at the other end and
25:26saying okay instead of going to a
25:28vendor's website or installing their app
25:31I'm going to chat with them that feels
25:33like a kind of a broken experience and
25:35then there's a third question which is
25:37like we want to have an engagement with
25:39sent this person getting in them to
25:42install an app is really hard and it's
25:44really binary is there some other way we
25:46can create like a rich interaction
25:47experience without forcing them to go
25:49through the app which is what the web
25:51gave you on the desktop it still frankly
25:53gives you on mobile which I thought you
25:55do have a web browser on your smartphone
26:00actually buggies where that where the
26:02medley where one person's basically what
26:06if you invent a phone where you don't
26:08have to download app and you can just
26:10you can just access everything he was a
26:15genius until he realized
26:19well this is the thing but this is why
26:20the kind of the webview what your your
26:22web viewpoint is interesting because
26:24then it's like it's another way to get
26:26people to a website is it a website
26:28isn't an hour I mean that's a whole
26:30other conversation and it's like I don't
26:31really care what programming language it
26:33is it's just not as that's not something
26:34that matters to a user but it's a way of
26:36delivering that getting that rich
26:38experience and this is kind of comes
26:40back to the kind of primary point that
26:41the desire for a third one time
26:43how can you give someone the richest
26:45experience you would want that doesn't
26:47have these weird constraints of like
26:49you've got to get the app installed that
26:52doesn't have the weird constraint of
26:53it's a chatbot and it can only do
26:55certain things how can you get people
26:57give that people that experience without
26:59having to get people an app installed
27:01well but I think that you're solving
27:03this from the wrong perspective which is
27:05on the flip side of it from the users
27:07perspective how do I get the most
27:09possible power and benefits with
27:11learning as little as possible in doing
27:13as little work as I need to exactly I
27:16want to think about what that Facebook
27:18is that the app store don't you just
27:20care right it's and so the question then
27:22is who gets out ahead who builds a
27:24platform that is just rich enough and
27:26enticing enough and has enough
27:28distribution which is the entire sort of
27:30marketing pitch that Facebook provided
27:32yesterday is like we have all the users
27:33come to us right relative to anybody
27:36else who's thinking concretely about
27:37building relationships so the thing that
27:39I actually I think is really broken I
27:41think is worth bringing up is the way in
27:43which we actually have articulated our
27:46brand relationships is pretty awful I
27:48mean if if I were to like look at
27:51conversion of friends that I've made
27:53like what is my conversion like figure
27:56you know 0.2% every time I try to make a
27:59friend walk by me I mean this is email
28:06marketing essentially right so this is
28:08the problem with these rich web views
28:09that you're talking about I mean this is
28:11again going back to the ID blocker thing
28:13like every time I try to read an article
28:14you know my friends you know Forbes or
28:17whatever has like 15 other friends
28:19coming in that are trying to sell me
28:20things before I can even talk to them
28:21so one of the nice things and one of the
28:24dynamics that's built into messenger and
28:26chat apps that I think is so powerful
28:27that's returning some power and control
28:29to the person is just the simple block
28:32action that you can take that you can't
28:33take I mean I guess adblock is that
28:35thing it's sort of like saying I don't
28:37want to hear from all these other brands
28:38and companies and services on the web
28:40but any platform that enables those web
28:42views could block it too right and and
28:44WeChat for example there's there's all
28:46kinds of rules around how often an
28:48official account can even message it
28:49yeah I think I fear I would describe
28:51your think your characterization is
28:52exactly wrong because I can choose which
28:55websites to go to or not go to but I
28:57can't choose who sends me Facebook
28:59messages or Twitter messages unless I
29:01block them or I turn on the privacy
29:02things and so face these are push
29:04channels where is the web it's a pull
29:06channel that's that's actually not true
29:07in terms of Facebook Messenger
29:09facebook Messenger explicitly said
29:10yesterday that the users have to first
29:12do some action but that's also that's
29:18that's a very clear sort of intent that
29:20opens up that channel I mean I think the
29:21control thing here is actually there's
29:23much more there's a fundamentally
29:25important point here which is you know
29:26there's a great chart from BuzzFeed and
29:28information for BuzzFeed on where people
29:30watch content on BuzzFeed and you know
29:32it's one quarter is direct and then it's
29:34YouTube and Facebook video and Facebook
29:36images it's a snapchat and you look at
29:38those things and you see different
29:40content formats and different
29:41acquisition models and now we've got
29:43another content format and another Oh
29:45another acquisition model with the don't
29:46weather dynamics through a bit different
29:48and it's not really a media format in
29:49the way that those are but it's another
29:50format and when you look at all of these
29:53you see this sort of splintering of how
29:56you get users what content you create
29:58what the interaction model would look
29:59like if there is interaction models and
30:01all of them are controlled by people and
30:03I think you know you can look at
30:05snapchat video is exactly the same as
30:07instant stories or Google amp in a funny
30:09kind of way even though one is that the
30:11bandwidth consumption is very different
30:13but they're about somebody with a closed
30:15platform creating new content formats
30:17and making people telling people if you
30:19want to be in this format in this
30:21platform with this distribution you have
30:22to create new types of content think
30:25about users in new ways in order to get
30:27access to those at least when it comes
30:29to snapchat and I think this is this is
30:30relevant given what I'm trying to sort
30:32of anticipate is the next wave of people
30:34using the internet and what their
30:36expectations and norms will be and if
30:39you grow up you know using messaging as
30:41your first sort of application of the
30:43Internet then you sort of expect to kind
30:45dynamic interactivity that you don't get
30:47from content that is created that it's
30:49static right so I think the key point if
30:51you look at snapchat in the the one of
30:54the at least my intuitive sense for why
30:56snapchat is compelling especially for
30:58young people and for friends is that
30:59it's very hard to to fake it it's much
31:02more authentic content and you're going
31:04for it because you can't sort of compose
31:06you know this immaculate blog post and
31:09put it out there and it's very you know
31:10nice and pretty it's more sort of rough
31:12and raw and so messaging sort of also
31:15does that and it's and it's if you
31:17contrast that with a lot of the
31:19marketing and advertising and and again
31:21you go to like a lot of these websites
31:22like one of the reasons why amp and
31:24instant articles is interesting is
31:25because it sort of cuts all that crap
31:26off and it says look you're here for the
31:29content you're here for the raw stuff
31:30you're here for the good stuff and
31:31that's what you gonna stick around for
31:32and the more that companies have abused
31:35customers and sort of taken advantage of
31:37their attention I think people are
31:38moving away from that and so that's sort
31:40of like this shift that I see and
31:41messanger is such a narrow channel and
31:43it's so restrictive it's actually not
31:46rich and that's actually a feature and
31:48so that actually from developers which
31:51is the point like it's moving back in
31:53the direction of the consumer to
31:54actually give them back some of their
31:56attention because they're overwhelmed by
31:57all of this crap that we've created and
31:59the control is moved from the publisher
32:01yes that's right it's not about the
32:03users control it's about the publishers
32:05it's the experience and it's like I
32:07guess what I'm saying is that even with
32:08all the ads on Facebook and so on
32:10messenger is such a narrow channel where
32:12there is no sponsorship and there's no
32:13ads and success totally yet successively
32:16though you see generations of people
32:18using social media abandon the previous
32:20generation once they move into
32:21monetization mode because they start to
32:23abuse the users I mean the places in
32:24which Twitter is putting ads it's just
32:27it's it's almost sort of uncomfortable
32:28you sort of go to like you know what
32:29used to be a single tweet page and now
32:31you've got like a sponsored tweet below
32:33it and you've got all this stuff
32:33distracting you all the time you know so
32:36where does that balance of you know I
32:39guess relationship between these brands
32:41and the consumers and the people using
32:42these platforms sort of fit in at the
32:44same time commerce is a hundred percent
32:45reliant on marketing right commerce is
32:48built on marketing and so if you if you
32:50completely stripped down the way that
32:52you can market a new product to just
32:54text in a one image it's very limiting
32:58for these commerce company
32:59well I feel like we're also talking
33:01about this in isolation because it's not
33:02like these other elements the web and
33:04everything else go away it's just like
33:05this is now adding a rich exactly sort
33:07of adding a rich a richer way of now
33:10interacting with an existing brand like
33:12when I booked my initial plane ticket
33:14I'm probably gonna go to a travel
33:15website and then when I have the rest of
33:17those interactions about updating my my
33:19travel and doing all the reservations
33:20I'll do all that within a bot so I think
33:22there's another there's another strand
33:23here just to talk about maybe which is
33:25that we chat has achieved a point that
33:27its success is circular that you have to
33:29be on WeChat because everyone's on
33:31WeChat everyone else on WeChat because
33:32everyone's and WeChat all brands on it
33:34and Facebook clearly isn't in that
33:36position at all certainly not a
33:39messenger and it's an open question as
33:42to whether we will be able to get that
33:44and yeah and that's why web these is
33:48actually much faster with on board it
33:51says and there's an interesting kind of
33:53question here and this comes back to I
33:54mean as again I mean I agree radically
33:57with the idea that this shift e this is
33:58shifting power to the user is shifting
33:59power to the platform and the thing that
34:01it reminds me of is I mean but so the
34:03sort of two metaphors here one is at
34:04what the Zuckerberg is extremely good at
34:06his surfing user behavior and that if
34:08anything is unbalancing the surfboard he
34:10pushes him off and so this in turn
34:13reminds me of the line in The Godfather
34:15where Vito Corleone's ser tells a lot so
34:17I'm sorry I can't tell my judges my team
34:20judges and policemen to protect you
34:21because they will protect the gambling
34:23record or put a prostitution racket they
34:25will not protect a heroin smuggling
34:26racket and if they did they would be in
34:28trouble and they would get fired and I
34:31think this is kind of the point that you
34:32know it's not in my in Facebook's gift
34:34to say we will be a good partner to you
34:36because it's actually not their decision
34:38it's the users decision and so whenever
34:40they've done you know the things that
34:42they killed because the users didn't
34:45like it but you know it's funny because
34:46you just said that all the power exists
34:48on the platform and yet Facebook is
34:50beholden to user behavior it's not it's
34:54not directly a decision by the user with
34:56Facebook can decide to put this stuff
34:58there Facebook can also decide to remove
34:59it Facebook can decide what you're
35:01allowed to do and what you're not but I
35:02think you raised a really interesting
35:03point and I think that there was an
35:05article this morning that I haven't read
35:06yet but I saw the title which is you
35:07know provocative enough which is like
35:09that's all anyone does anyway
35:13although stories in my knees attitude
35:18about you know the CEOs being like the
35:21new states men or people or whatever and
35:23whether you believe that or not
35:25I mean what you're talking about is
35:27actually the governance of these
35:28platforms and the balancing of the
35:30interests of all these different parties
35:32so in a sense Facebook is the largest
35:34global political party that exists or
35:36political I don't even know like system
35:38that exists it actually is balancing
35:40lots of different interests
35:42by the way I mean just to go back to
35:43like my whole sort of the genesis of the
35:46term conversational commerce was merely
35:48to point out that in software that has
35:51been mostly dedicated to conversations
35:53between friends and family members for
35:55however many years we're now starting to
35:58see in the West commercial entities show
36:02up non-human entities show up so it
36:06isn't to me that it's about
36:07conversational commerce forever it's
36:10about conversational software as being a
36:12new paradigm for releasing and launching
36:14services features and tools in a way
36:17that previously people didn't have that
36:18expectation and so that's the shift that
36:20I see in terms of this new runtime and
36:22that those conversations will take many
36:23forms whether they're in the form of
36:24chat and you know with chat bubbles and
36:27the conventional kind of like back and
36:28forth whether it'll be like Alexa or
36:31Cortana or Siri or other voice that
36:35interactivity that I think is
36:36interesting and and the dynamic nough
36:38stats presented in that relative to the
36:40static content that's largely defined
36:42the web where there is a piece of
36:44content on the server you request it it
36:46comes down to the browser the browser
36:47interprets it it shows it to the user
36:48and that's basically what you do and
36:50then you have a form and it goes back
36:51and forth and back and forth and back
36:52now we're stripping away a lot of the
36:55decorations on that content and we're
36:58making it just pure conversation in a
37:00way that anybody who speaks any language
37:01can participate I guess I didn't say
37:03that as one if that's the definition of
37:07conversational commerce that is not new
37:09because it's existed in Asia for many
37:11many years totally and that's why it's
37:13new here at least it's new for me
37:17another really interesting thing that
37:19surprisingly the media hasn't talked
37:21about is how the bots will interact with
37:24flying world and this is an area that I
37:26think we chart really shines because in
37:30WeChat QR codes are not WeChat sorry and
37:32Asia QR codes are much more prevalent
37:33the idea of adding an official account
37:36through the offline world is very very
37:39common and it goes to that whole issue
37:42that Benedict mentioned which is how do
37:44you discover these spots how do they get
37:45pushed you how do you find them and if
37:47all you can do is say well you put the
37:49QR code on a billboard then you haven't
37:51actually solved the problem at all
37:52that's no different from putting your
37:53domain name on the billboard I mean
37:54really you ever you have actually
37:55haven't solved a problem you know saying
37:59follow our bot you know spending a
38:01million dollars on media to say follow
38:03our bot is no different at all from
38:04spending a million dollars on media
38:06saying like us on facebook or go to our
38:07webpage you haven't actually solved a
38:09problem to me this is also a case where
38:11we really don't know how things are
38:12gonna I mean this is your point where
38:13how things are gonna evolve because when
38:15I can imagine a bot that is as good as
38:18my relationship with Alexa in the sense
38:21that I can it has a personality and
38:23something that not liked a just
38:25something that I really just want to
38:26interact with as my go-to place we can't
38:29even conceive of that yet because it's
38:31so raw and command line style still that
38:34that could be a potential future I mean
38:36where I wouldn't actually follow a bot
38:39liked it Connie if you said like hey
38:40there's a store and it has this great
38:41bot and this bot is actually a fashion
38:43assistant and it's like Anna Wintour and
38:45a bot I might follow that bot if it's
38:47named Anna and click on it and create
38:49this personality of like these things
38:51that I'm following it's not just this
38:53transaction at that point I think it's
38:55funny too that you use the verb like
38:56follow right I think that the thing
38:58that's different and then the dynamic
39:00that actually is more exciting and
39:02interesting to me about this is that
39:03again it's it's actually sort of
39:05bringing these these services and brands
39:07and bots or whatever it is into your
39:09world in a way that people who are not
39:12super familiar or savvy with technology
39:13can understand if they text their moms
39:15or they share photos after weddings and
39:17stuff like that they can do that with
39:18these whether they're official accounts
39:21or BOTS and businesses at Facebook calls
39:23them whatever it's going to be and that
39:24that pretext those set of behaviors and
39:27the fact that we have fairly ubiquitous
39:28you know mobile networking now means
39:31that people can text these things and
39:32message them whenever they want to when
39:33they're out of the bar at night and
39:34they're drunk and they're like oh I need
39:35some new shoes like they can do that
39:37impulse thing is there whereas trying to
39:39sort of you know remember which website
39:41to go to and is it mobile optimized and
39:43I'm like I'm waiting for it and I've got
39:44like poor reception like there's still
39:46realities on the ground that make using
39:48the web on mobile devices and platforms
39:50just not that great but you can always
39:52just about always message someone and
39:55that I think resilience is I guess one
39:58of the things that I feel makes the
40:01messaging context robust and so from
40:03here because there is that behavior now
40:05you can build on it you just describe
40:08like being able to recall the name of
40:10the website that really is just a
40:11shortcut and so that's why again like I
40:13focus a lot less on the back-and-forth
40:15chat dialogue because I don't think
40:16conversation is that additive to most
40:18transactions and I think the fact that
40:21it lives in messenger fine but it's
40:22really just the shortcut to something
40:24then maybe maybe that's it right like I
40:25mean the funny thing about the way that
40:27threaded experiences look is that it's
40:29actually sort of very similar to the way
40:30that RSS readers used to look and so you
40:32have sort of like your sources on the
40:33side and you've got sort of content on
40:34the right so I would agree with you it's
40:36not necessarily just about the
40:38conversational nature but I think that
40:40the conversation is the invitation that
40:42then invites she'd actually have a back
40:44and forth which is about I I sort of
40:46started this point before about you know
40:48if my conversion rate for friends was
40:49like point two percent that'd be pretty
40:50terrible this question that that so many
40:53marketers and brands and agencies focus
40:56on just the conversion on just getting
40:57someone into the funnel and then they
40:59drop them off to whatever sort of other
41:00automated system exists it's part of the
41:03way in which it's broken if you could
41:04imagine actually scaling a high quality
41:06high class high touch interaction that
41:09feels like the friendships that you've
41:11had for years because I you know I've
41:13been with Virgin America I don't know
41:17four for ten years or whatever since
41:18they first opened and you know god rest
41:20her soul like now they're with Alaska
41:22but like the thing that's interesting is
41:25that I actually messaged them this is so
41:28great I sent them a DM on Twitter last
41:31night the last message that I'd sent
41:32them was in 2009 and I never got a
41:34response just crickets things have
41:36changed I got a response within two or
41:38three minutes and I had a problem with
41:40my check-ins so I sort of did this thing
41:41you're a perfect example but this person
41:44knows nothing about me
41:45I've had a relationship with virgin for
41:46all this time and to me that's sort of
41:48part of the broken piece of this that
41:50aspirationally we can
41:51move closer to getting to a kind of
41:53personalization and a resonance that you
41:56know brands would love to have and I
41:58just don't see that that I mean it's
41:59possible and Amazon is a good example of
42:01this like they have done it they sort of
42:02maybe not totally cracked enough but
42:04they certainly opened it on the web
42:06most other brands and services can't
42:08achieve that level of personalization
42:10and customization and persistence and so
42:12I guess my question in my thought is
42:14that well if you strip away all the
42:15other trappings of pretty things and
42:17bells and whistles on the web to just
42:19being about a conversational channel
42:20that actually forces you to sort of you
42:23know get into it and just be very raw
42:26and very direct and if you're going to
42:28be useful and valuable that's where
42:30that's going to happen like that example
42:31is again more customer service centric
42:34right so so I think we all agree
42:35customers are is a fantastic way to use
42:38conversation and back-and-forth dialogue
42:39but it's it's really that when I'm going
42:41out to buy something I already know it
42:43so I think I think eyebrows is like
42:45really bad that's one of the challenges
42:46that I think while I mean I I've sort of
42:50always tried to be on the side of
42:51individual freedom and choice and all
42:54this stuff and the reality is these
42:55platforms remove so much of the cost and
42:57overhead of learning about and
42:59maintaining awareness of all the
43:00standards and all the sort of emerging
43:01things that it actually enables people
43:03to conduct business and transact even if
43:06it's lower margins because the platform
43:08is taking a cut then if they were to
43:10build their own really really good
43:12implementations of the stuff I mean
43:13again if people can't even get them to
43:15download if brands giving it people to
43:17download and use their native apps as it
43:19is yeah the challenge the challenge is
43:20that you you have that nice easy
43:22frictionless experience and you're on
43:24Facebook and then you wake up one
43:25morning and your traffic's down by three
43:27quarters I totally hear that you know
43:29the Internet is funny to say the
43:30internet with like twenty years of
43:31status before Mobile came along but kind
43:34of you know you have a kind of a
43:36completely new kind of change in many
43:38more different levels and much more
43:40continuous than you had on the desktop
43:41web but I think and this is just kind of
43:43one aspect of that as we know this the
43:44same we look for another one time it's a
43:46lot more complicated than that we're
43:47looking for kind of new interaction on
43:49new engagement or new acquisition at
43:50every level of the stack in a way that
43:52we didn't really have with a desktop web
43:53yeah so I think like the the fundamental
43:56shift that I see and it's interesting to
43:59think about the last 20 if not the last
44:0160 years of computing you know coming
44:04out of like the Cold War era
44:05and building and designing computers
44:08that were designed really around human
44:09augmentation you know suddenly you know
44:11this coming out of park and building
44:13systems that were really about
44:14information retrieval designed for
44:16experts the mobile device is the first
44:19real sort of mass-produced device that
44:21everyone seems to have and everyone
44:23seems to want and that they incorporate
44:25into their lives in these somewhat
44:26awkward ways we've persisted so many
44:29metaphors from the office environment I
44:30mean down to like the desktop which was
44:32real able the home screen or though the
44:34home yeah screen on iOS and we have this
44:38this concept of apps that represent
44:41different verbs and then you have to
44:42sort of from a cognitive perspective
44:44relate this you know a little app icon
44:46to the verb that you want to take to
44:48then the services that you want to
44:49execute and you have to have accounts
44:51and identity and payments and all these
44:53things have to be sort of set up in each
44:54one of these little pockets of
44:56functionality that that I think is
45:00leading to this sort of gist or will
45:01lead to this just exhaustion so on the
45:06one hand these personal devices I think
45:07are sort of leading to a place where
45:09people are looking for simplicity on the
45:12other hand with ubiquitous networks and
45:15now sensors and other things like that
45:17sort of entering into the environment
45:19and you know the first kind of room
45:22computer is sort of lighting up and
45:23giving us access to computing
45:25capabilities just sort of in the ether
45:26we're seeing diffused computing kind of
45:29come upon us and so that relationship
45:31and that handoff between these personal
45:33mobile devices and computing in the real
45:35world is going to become super
45:37interesting and it's at that kind of
45:39inflection point that we start to see
45:41you know what urban computing is going
45:44to look like as opposed to you know
45:45office work driven computing and I guess
45:48that to me is the most rich and the most
45:50interesting and it's really bringing
45:52maybe it's not control back to the
45:54individual per se because they're still
45:56members of and beholden to the platform
45:58providers but it's forcing these brands
46:02to actually sort of cut back a lot of
46:04that complexity and focus on delivering
46:06very simple very straightforward
46:07services to people at scale and so I
46:10think that that's why and because
46:12conversation is so universal and so
46:14accessible that's why I think it's super
46:16interesting and super worth thinking
46:17about and we are only the
46:19very very very very bidding beginning
46:20stages of this shift I think I'd like to
46:23basically give caution to some
46:25developers because there is this kind of
46:27gold rush to build a bot right now to
46:29really think whether in the bots that
46:32they're creating that chat is additive
46:34and whether chat is actually going to
46:36get rid of friction and really evaluate
46:39your service are you a customer service
46:41centric product is your product
46:43something where personalization is very
46:45key to what you're doing alright in
46:47those instances sure about I think
46:49allocating resources to go make a bot
46:51might make sense but if you're not in
46:53one of those categories really think
46:55about whether the chat and the
46:56back-and-forth conversation is additive
46:58and if not I mean I don't mean to not
47:01build a bot but think about how to
47:03design it such that it takes you to the
47:04webview much faster so you can show them
47:06more images so you can do more richer
47:09interactive experiences and spend more
47:11time thinking about how will this how
47:14would this evolve in the offline world
47:16right when when first Facebook first
47:17came out you all of a sudden saw a bunch
47:19of billboards that said follow us on
47:23same thing with Twitter you would see
47:24the Twitter handle on the bottom of CNN
47:27or of all kinds of TV shows right and so
47:30how will this new bot ecosystem live in
47:33the offline world I think is super
47:35interesting and so thinking about how
47:37this whole bot ecosystem will live in
47:40the offline world I hope will be much
47:42more than just follow me at XYZ username
47:47okay thank you guys thanks everyone
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