00:00hi and welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm
00:03Hannah and today I'm here with Adrienne
00:05mayor historian of science and author of
00:07the just released book gods and robots
00:09myths machines and ancient dreams of
00:12technology mayor is the 2018-2019
00:15Berggruen fellow at the Center for
00:17Advanced Study in the behavioral
00:19sciences at Stanford and her previous
00:21work has been on the science buried in
00:23ancient legends Native American legends
00:26about dinosaur fossils legends about
00:28ancient Amazonian women Warriors to King
00:31Mithridates the poison King for which
00:33she was a National Book Award finalist
00:35in this latest book mayor shows us the
00:38earliest myths around ideas of
00:39technology and even artificial life from
00:42the first imagined robot to walk the
00:44earth to actual historical technological
00:47wonders of the ancient world such as
00:49mechanical flying doves and giant
00:51parades of self moving automatons so
00:54Adrienne let me just start with what
00:55first turned your interest towards these
00:57ancient ideas around technology and
00:59artificial life well as a folklorist and
01:02a historian of ancient science what I'm
01:05interested in are the very first
01:07Inklings of the scientific impulse in
01:10pre scientific cultures especially
01:12antiquity especially ancient Greece and
01:14Rome and associated ancient cultures so
01:17I moved to Silicon Valley in 2006 where
01:21there's just so much advanced
01:24innovations in automatons and AI and
01:27trying to extend the lifespan and
01:29surpassing nature I just started
01:33wondering how deep are those roots where
01:35and when did those desires and actual
01:37endeavors begin there's a lot of natural
01:41knowledge and even scientific folk
01:43knowledge if you will embedded in
01:46mythology and all of my projects have
01:49been investigations into finding what's
01:53real in myths and legends it's kind of
01:56like witty archeology of knowledge
01:58absolutely sometimes I call myself a
02:00historian of human curiosity that's
02:02wonderful what a great job so what do
02:05you actually mean by technology what do
02:08you actually mean by ancient ideas about
02:10artificial life let's do some definition
02:13just so we know what language we're
02:15speaking back then and now around these
02:17ideas how would you define technology
02:19itself well a lot of philosophers of
02:21science have doubted that ancient Greeks
02:24were able to imagine automatons and
02:27self-moving devices before the
02:29technology actually existed and my goal
02:32was to see whether those things could be
02:35thinkable long before the technology
02:37existed you could call ancient mythology
02:39cultural dreams or ancient thought
02:42experiments they're basically the very
02:45first science fiction's before science
02:48what I'm interested in are automatons
02:51and self-moving devices visualized in
02:54mythology about gods and heroes and
02:56humans that were described as beings
03:00that were made not born and that's a
03:03critical distinction the whole way
03:05through the book that is a critical
03:07distinction in antiquity and now if
03:09something is manufactured or fabricated
03:12and not reproduced biologically that was
03:15the dividing line between real and
03:18natural human and non-human animate and
03:21inanimate artifice artifice imitations
03:25of nature the God who is most involved
03:29in creating self moving devices and
03:31automatons is Hephaestus he was the god
03:34of blacksmithing and forging with bronze
03:37but he was also the god of invention and
03:41technology he was the only God with a
03:44job he's the only one who breaks a sweat
03:46when he's working all the other gods
03:48have lives of leisure and they are in
03:51awe of his special abilities in his
03:54Forge with technology and invention so
03:57they asked him to make them special
03:59weapons various baubles and contraptions
04:03he made automatic gates for Mount
04:06Olympus that would automatically open
04:09and close when the gods or goddesses
04:11approached with their chariots he also
04:14made a fleet of what you might call
04:17automatic Butler's these were tripods on
04:20wheels that would deliver ambrosia and
04:23nectar to the gods feasts and then
04:25automatically to him when they were
04:26empty all these devices were described
04:29by Homer this is 2,500 years ago or more
04:32we're hearing about ancient Greeks
04:35imagining self moving devices and
04:37automatons and so does technology mean
04:42to you the tools to have made those
04:45things basically essential definitions
04:48that can be accepted now and we can
04:51apply back to antiquity to the myths and
04:54then to inventions beginning the fourth
04:56century BC a machine is essentially a
04:58device that changes the direction or
05:00magnitude of a force so a machine the
05:04very earliest machines humans always had
05:07a desire to make machines to enhance
05:10their own abilities and powers so an
05:13atlatl or the first bow-and-arrow
05:15those are essentially machines and addle
05:18addle an adalat all preceded the bow and
05:21arrow it was a device that held a spear
05:25stable and then you could throw the
05:29spear using this device or go much
05:32further a much straighter
05:34I guess the principle today would be
05:36those devices that you used to throw
05:37balls for your dog right right okay but
05:40with a spear as you see it's a human
05:43enhancement yeah it amplifies the
05:45magnitude and refines the aim and
05:47distance of the missile so those are the
05:50first machines you also use the word an
05:52automaton maybe we can write that down
05:54automaton is usually understood as a
05:57self moving construction that can carry
06:00out a job or a task and some automatons
06:03can actually respond to their
06:05environment or a situation and the word
06:08robot is that interchangeable with
06:10automaton robot even today that's a very
06:12slippery term in many different
06:14definitions floating around usually
06:17means a machine or some kind of self
06:20moving entity or self moving device our
06:23automatic device that has some sort of
06:26power source you use the word biotech
06:28knee quite a bit is that what you're
06:31using to think of as sort of early ideas
06:33around literally artificial life or
06:35what's the relationship there many
06:37ancient cultures have
06:39of stories and tales and myths about
06:42lifeless entities brought to life
06:45magically by a god or a magician's spell
06:48and instead of inert things brought to
06:52life by magic or their command of a god
06:53I'm looking for myths and stories and
06:57ancient accounts of automatons and
07:00self-moving devices that were
07:03technological products Hephaestus used
07:06the same tools and implements and
07:08materials that an ordinary blacksmith
07:11used but of course he had awesome
07:13abilities and his products of technology
07:16were spectacular what you would expect
07:19of a God but using regular recognizable
07:22everyday tools exactly and these
07:24entities that were made not born they
07:28were made by a process that the Greeks
07:31would call biotech nay which means life
07:34through crafts and it is the root of our
07:38word biotechnology so what we're looking
07:40at our ancient myths imagining
07:44automatons and self living devices
07:47created using biotechnical technology
07:53what an amazing idea so you open the
07:55book with a story about the very first
07:57robot the very first robot to walk the
08:00earth was the bronze robot named talus
08:04the story of Talos is very ancient
08:07indeed it goes back to Hesiod and Homer
08:10who lived in the period of 750 to 650 BC
08:15so we're talking about an extremely
08:17ancient imagining of a robot made of
08:22bronze set to work on earth he was
08:26created by the god Hephaestus for Zeus
08:29to give to his son King Minos to protect
08:32me Knossos kingdom of Crete he was able
08:36to march around the island of Crete
08:40some people have estimated that he went
08:42maybe 500 miles an hour
08:45so fast and he was not a mythical
08:48creature he was made not born
08:50we actually have his
08:52eternal workings described tell us his
08:54job was to notice ships that were
08:58approaching Crete strange ships pirates
09:01or other invaders he would then grab
09:05boulders and hurl these boulders at the
09:08ships to destroy the ships but in close
09:10combat should anyone come ashore tell us
09:13had yet another capability which was to
09:18red hot he's made of bronze he's able to
09:20heat his body until it was red hot grab
09:23up a victim and crush them to his chest
09:25and roast them alive so he's a guardian
09:31he's a guardian of Crete and he is
09:33somehow aware of his surroundings he can
09:36spot approaching ships and then he can
09:39decide to take action ancient coins of
09:42Crete depict Talos as a giant man
09:46hurling boulders carrying out his job
09:49now in the ancient epic of Jason and the
09:53Argonauts Jason and his sailors almost
09:57became victims of tellus so the story of
09:59tellus was also told by apollonius of
10:02rhodes so what was Tallis's power source
10:05if that's an essential part of the
10:07definition of robot Talos can be defined
10:09as an ancient robot because of his
10:13Hephaestus created him of bronze he was
10:16Hollow but he had a single artery that
10:19went from his head down to his feet and
10:21in that artery pulsed not blood but
10:25ICOR which was the fluid of the gods
10:28which made them immortal and the entire
10:31viv assist M if you will was sealed with
10:35a bronze bolt on his ankle so he is at
10:40product of technology the definition is
10:43really clear that he was constructed by
10:47a god of Technology and innovation well
10:50and he was defeated by precisely that
10:53one ankle hinge right Medea who was a
10:56sorceress was accompanying Jason and the
11:00Argonauts on their quest for the golden
11:02fleece figures out how to
11:05destroy Talos before he can kill them
11:08she says we don't know if he's immortal
11:10but we do know that his entire system is
11:14sealed by that bronze bolt on his ankle
11:17let me see if I can persuade him to
11:19allow us to remove the bolt and she uses
11:23her powers of persuasion on this giant
11:25bronze robot and here's where we know
11:27that he has some human features of
11:31sentience and he has emotions she tells
11:34him that she can make him immortal and
11:37he wants to become immortal he has
11:39desire he has a desire to live forever
11:41he doesn't want to be destroyed and that
11:44is his downfall he agrees to allow Medea
11:48and Jason to remove that bolt from his
11:50ankle and the myth says the iCore poured
11:53out like molten metal ah which is
11:57another very technological image the
12:00other interesting thing to me is that I
12:02are at least two ancient vase paintings
12:04from about 450 BC that show Jason a
12:08Medea using a tool to release that bolt
12:13on his ankle with like a wrench or like
12:16what does it look like it's very hard to
12:18see but if you use a magnifying glass it
12:21looks like a small wrench that is
12:23amazing so they're working on the robot
12:25which confirm that tell us has conceived
12:29of and imagined as a technological
12:31product a product of biotech name that
12:35he really was manufactured and not a
12:38giant human or something magical so the
12:41thing that stands out to me and that is
12:43this wrestling with this idea of like a
12:45creature created for service to humans
12:49but that sort of on this blurry line of
12:52sentience and not sentience right which
12:54is something that persists with us today
12:56right our anxiety around this sentience
12:58or not yes and today a lot of social
13:01scientists and psychologists try to
13:04understand why do we tend to humanize
13:08robots and AI and automatons we tend to
13:13ant help it I know we tend to bestow
13:15life and desires and human emotions
13:18to them even though you know actually we
13:20know it's not true well that was true in
13:22antiquity too Medea suspected to that
13:25this bronze man might have human
13:30emotions and she played upon those and
13:31exploited them the other interesting
13:33message from the story of Talos is that
13:35he was a product of technology carrying
13:38out his duties but he was destroyed by
13:40technology too I also think it's really
13:42interesting that you see these glimmers
13:45of wrestling with issues around command
13:46and control right like that this is a
13:48robot who has been programmed to do a
13:52certain kind of protection but anxiety
13:54we cannot control there were ancient
13:56plays about Talos in antiquity we know
14:01that he was humanized and people felt
14:04empathy for him was it a blend of
14:06empathy and fear or oh yes as today it
14:09was then also an ambivalence a sort of
14:12mixture of dread and awe but also a kind
14:15of pity for the robot who was simply
14:19going about his assigned job and was
14:22taken in by a trick there are some
14:24ancient vase paintings that show Talos
14:27being destroyed and he's falling
14:30backwards and you can see the rivets and
14:33the seams of this bronze giant and yet
14:36there is a tear falling from his eye so
14:40in antiquity people did feel sympathy
14:42for this role heartbreaking detail it's
14:45interesting in that this story is really
14:47kind of a very early imagining of a kind
14:49of military technology that were
14:52starting to see become a kind of reality
14:55in certain ways how else did the
14:57ancients think about this kind of line
14:59in a technology around conflict there's
15:02another very interesting story in the
15:05epic saga of Jason and the Argonauts in
15:07which Medea was involved again in
15:10helping Jason figure out how to deal
15:13with another kind of robotic juggernaut
15:15that he had to face madea's father the
15:19king of Colchis imposed an impossible
15:22task on Jason before he could get the
15:25Golden Fleece and he had to yoke a pair
15:29of fire-breathing brawn
15:31bowls these were robotic bulls made of
15:35bronze by Hephaestus of course and they
15:38breathed fire now the King thought that
15:41Jason would be killed burned up by these
15:43robot bulls but Jason was able to yoke
15:46them so the king imposed another task
15:48you need to plough a field and you need
15:52to plant dragon teeth which will
15:55immediately grow into an automaton army
15:59many people remember this scene from the
16:03cult movie jason and the argonauts from
16:051963 it was her it was a horrifying
16:08thing no one can forget if they've ever
16:11these skeleton soldiers armed with
16:14swords popping up out of these ploughed
16:17furrows and they're unstoppable and
16:19they're multiplying and they are
16:21programmed so to speak with one task to
16:25go forward and attack that is all they
16:28can do they cannot be led they cannot
16:30retreat and their orders can't be
16:32changed so Medea figures out how to
16:36trigger their programming to destroy
16:40them she advises Jason to throw rocks
16:45and the blows on their shields trigger
16:49their attack programming and they begin
16:52attacking the soldier nearest them their
16:55own companions and they feel the blows
16:58on their shields and began to attack
17:00each other hacking at each other with
17:02their own swords Jason and his men can
17:04now rush in and finish them off and this
17:07story really has a lesson about cyborg
17:09soldiers and issues of command and
17:12control it's essentially hacking right
17:14she sort of hacks them too I like to
17:17call Medea a techno Wizard because she
17:20seems to be able to figure these things
17:22out by thinking about the programming
17:26and the systems of these inventions of
17:29the god Hephaestus and she's able to
17:32destroy them by using their technology
17:34turning their technology against them so
17:37you could call her the first hacker I
17:39hadn't thought of that I love it no
17:44talk a little bit about Hephaestus this
17:46amazing god of invention because tellus
17:49was not his only invention he had a huge
17:52range and that range shows quite a bit
17:55of all the different ways that the
17:57ancient Greeks were thinking about
17:58invention technology and creation what
18:00were some of the other tools and
18:02inventions that Hephaestus was known for
18:05creating the God of invention and
18:06technology have festus had a fantastic
18:08resume not only did he invent the first
18:12automatic garage doors for heaven he
18:15also invented a staff of golden women
18:21who looked like real women in every way
18:24but they were made of gold and they were
18:26endowed with strength and intelligence
18:28and he then bestowed upon them all the
18:34knowledge of the gods this is
18:36essentially a data dump of information
18:39they don't really need but who knows
18:41they might need it yeah helping him I
18:43think you said lifelike humanoids they
18:46were these golden servants female
18:49androids who bustled de round his
18:51workshop anticipating his every need and
18:55so these were AI servants you say mobile
18:58with reasoning and intelligence but
19:01critically they were not human so yes
19:03this is a kind of pre AI idea of
19:05artificial life yes I think so they're a
19:08lifelike they are self moving they
19:12anticipate his needs and they have a
19:16huge wealth of information stored inside
19:20them just in case it might be necessary
19:23so essentially they are the first AI
19:26entities in Western literature and it
19:30was Homer who describes these what's
19:32interesting about Hephaestus is marvels
19:35and inventions is that they were almost
19:38all created for the benefit of the gods
19:40in the heavens in service to them yes
19:44but when Hephaestus made things that
19:46would be sent to earth that's when
19:48problems arise there was another entity
19:51that Hephaestus was commanded to make by
19:56is Pandora now Zeus was very angry about
20:00humans receiving the secret of fire from
20:03the Titan Prometheus and as we all know
20:07he punished Prometheus by chaining him
20:09to a mountaintop and Hephaestus forged a
20:13bronze eagle to come like a drone at the
20:17same time every day and peck out the
20:19liver of Prometheus that was the
20:22punishment for stealing fire from the
20:24gods and giving this very important
20:27technology to humans but Zeus also
20:30created a very merciless punishment for
20:33humans for accepting that gift of fire
20:36Zeus commanded her Festus to make an
20:40artificial woman that he would send down
20:43to earth to bring ruination to all
20:45humankind and have Festus created
20:48Endora who was once again made not born
20:52she had no childhood no memories no
20:54parents no emotions she was programmed
20:57with one task only she was sent to Earth
21:00with a sealed jar or box that contained
21:04every human misery and all the suffering
21:08of humankind her only task on earth was
21:11to insinuate her self into human society
21:15and open that box we never hear from her
21:18again she completed her task on earth
21:22delivered the Box originally it was a
21:25jar but throughout the ages it became a
21:27box and through a mistranslation in the
21:301500s something like that but it was a
21:32jar that she opened and released all the
21:35miseries and sufferings you wrote an
21:38article recently about the importance of
21:39this story for modern technology why do
21:42you think it resonates so much still
21:44today when people talk about AI and
21:46robotics today sooner or later somebody
21:48talks about or brings up Pandora's Box
21:51and that's very appropriate because we
21:54can think of all of the advances in
21:56technology and AI and robotics as a kind
21:59of Pandora's box that were opening but
22:02the original story was rather different
22:05Pandora comes down to earth she is
22:07escorted to Earth by zoo
22:09messenger Hermes and Hermes takes
22:13Pandora to Prometheus's brother
22:16Epimetheus now their names are very
22:19Prometheus means foresight looking ahead
22:22in Greek Epimetheus he's a cheerful sort
22:26of happy-go-lucky guy he's the perfect
22:28Patsy his name means hindsight or lack
22:33of foresight he's unable to look ahead
22:36so he's the perfect person to receive
22:39Pandora into his life and he is dazzled
22:42by the short-term gains the beauty of
22:46this ravishing artificial woman and he
22:49said the ancient poet who tells us this
22:53story and about 700 BC says that
22:56Epimetheus only realized his mistake
22:58later but prometheus attempted to warn
23:01his brother Epimetheus prometheus is you
23:04know justifiably paranoid about Zeus's
23:06gifts and commands and things that have
23:09estes make so he warns Epimetheus not to
23:13accept Pandora into his life or her
23:16dowry which is that sealed box
23:18Epimetheus says yeah but she's beautiful
23:20and and I'm gonna basically what's
23:25really important today is whether one is
23:28going to be a Promethean or an epimer
23:31thean when considering ai and advances
23:34in technology foresight is really
23:37important but we tend to be more like a
23:39Prometheus and going for the short-term
23:41gains I thought it was very interesting
23:43when you talk about the Aristotle sense
23:46of the consequences of the economic
23:49consequences of these inanimate
23:50instruments and things that do labor for
23:54us can you talk us through a little bit
23:56about how Aristotle was thinking about
23:58those consequences one reason I wrote
24:01this book is to point out that these
24:02stories are kind of a mythology for the
24:05age of AI and I think it's interesting
24:08that in antiquity these myths were about
24:11robots and automatons and self-moving
24:14devices and even AI we're good to think
24:17with even for philosophers so we have
24:20Aristotle who actually
24:22offended the practice of slavery in
24:24Athens ancient Athens and yet in one
24:28remarkable passage Aristotle starts to
24:31muse on the old myths of Hephaestus
24:34making these golden women to help him in
24:37his shop and the travelling carts that
24:40fed the gods and then returned and a
24:43bank of bellows for his Forge that
24:45actually could adjust their blasts
24:48according to his needs
24:49Aristotle mentions all those and then he
24:52sort of throws out a thought experiment
24:55well if we had such things today in our
24:58real life if we had looms that could
25:01weave by themselves or musical
25:05instruments that could play themselves
25:07there would be no need for slavery and
25:09if only he had gone on with that thought
25:12but he didn't he stopped right there it
25:13seems to be something that occurred to
25:15him and then he moves on the cur
25:17yeah and yet that that flicker of
25:21realization of what automatons and
25:24Automation how it could affect a society
25:29both socially and economically occurred
25:33to Aristotle back in the 4th century BC
25:36you talked quite a bit about how these
25:37were ways of thinking about ethics over
25:40all were there differences that you
25:42noticed when you went back between sort
25:44of how some of the ancient Greeks and
25:46Romans were thinking about the ethics
25:48around these ideas about artificial life
25:50and the way we tend to think about it
25:52today I have an article coming out
25:54called tyrants and robots because in
25:56both myth and historical times in
26:00antiquity its tyrants autocrats
26:02who are really interested in deploying
26:06automatons the enhancement of power it's
26:09a way to amplify your power and so we
26:13have Zeus who is the all-powerful God
26:16he's the lord of gods and men and he
26:20commands a Festus forces efest us
26:22sometimes against his will we here to
26:25create these a killer robot for Minos on
26:30Crete an evil fembot Pandora to
26:36and then we hear about Kings in myth who
26:39owned a pair of robotic fire-breathing
26:43bulls that would kill anyone who came
26:44near them or can deploy an automaton
26:48army that can't be stopped
26:50so Kings are very interested in having
26:53these automated animated statues and
26:56various robots it's interesting that
26:58even back then there was an awareness of
27:00the deep relationship between power and
27:02technology and potential imbalances as
27:05well let's talk a little bit about the
27:08actual early historical examples that
27:10you touch on in the book you spend a
27:12whole chapter talking about some of the
27:14actual technology that you were able to
27:17pull out of the archives what were some
27:20of those examples well in antiquity
27:22there certainly was technology the use
27:24of robots and self-moving devices by
27:27autocrats in myths was echoed in real
27:31life there are many instances of real
27:34kings with absolute power who deployed
27:38automatons and animated statues not just
27:42to aggrandize their power but to
27:45actually kill masses of people artisans
27:49and craftsmen and sculptors and
27:51engineers offered their services to
27:54autocrats because they knew they would
27:56be rewarded those autocrats and monarchs
27:59held contests to find new innovations in
28:03military machines that's how the first
28:06catapult was invented for a Dionysius
28:09the first it makes me think about how
28:11DARPA holds contests for various things
28:16and incidentally DARPA is currently
28:18working on an automated exoskeleton that
28:22will have AI capabilities for soldiers
28:26and they deliberately came up with the
28:29acronym so they're Airy well the first
28:34surface-to-air missiles that were built
28:37after world war ii we're called Talos
28:40missile Telus missiles were placed on on
28:44ships and they patrolled the seas
28:47very similar function to her ancient
28:50tell us already in weaponry yes the very
28:52first automaton that could fly was
28:56created by a friend of Plato named
28:59Archie toss he was just a polymath a
29:02brilliant inventor engineer and a
29:04general and he created an artificial
29:07bird in the shape of a dove that could
29:10fly several yards it had to be reset
29:13after it flew but this was a rather
29:16amazing invention it caused a big
29:19sensation modern engineers are
29:22fascinated by this historical incident
29:25so early 4th century BC and they guess
29:30that it was probably steam driven by
29:33captured steam we have only a small
29:36fraction of what was written down in
29:39classical antiquity so what we have just
29:43shows the tip of the iceberg of real
29:45inventions there was also a mention of
29:47actual real robots at that time what was
29:50that well I can tell you about some
29:52benign robots and some evil robots
29:56actually designed and manufactured in
30:00antiquity the king of Sparta nabis came
30:04to power in the 200s in Sparta it was a
30:07very harsh dictator he was widely
30:10detested and he ended up being
30:12assassinated in 192 BC he and his wife
30:15ruled with an iron hand and their reign
30:19was long remembered for extortion and
30:22actually torture and mass killings of
30:26citizens of Sparta and the surrounding
30:28territories many historians said that
30:30his wife a pega was even more cruel than
30:33nabis one of his great ideas was to have
30:37some engineers create a robot in the
30:41shape of his queen a pega it looked just
30:44like her and it maybe even had a wax
30:46face that was cast from her face and he
30:49dressed it in her finery what an
30:51incredible image yes someone has
30:54recreated this you can find it on you
30:57a Polish engineer so he created this
31:00fake a pega who could move he would
31:03invite citizens in and ply them with
31:06wine and try to persuade them to turn
31:08over their property to him and if they
31:10refused he would say well perhaps my
31:13queen of pega will be more persuasive
31:14and he would take them to meet a pea and
31:17as they went forward toward a pega who
31:21was seated on a throne and they reached
31:23out their hand she suddenly stood up and
31:27clasped them to her body
31:29what was she powered by she was probably
31:32powered by cams and springs and levers
31:35and we know that Navis then went behind
31:39her and worked the levers and springs
31:43like The Wizard of Oz yes and remember
31:46that catapult torsion catapults had been
31:48invented by this time so some of the
31:50same mechanisms probably were being used
31:52on a smaller scale for this evil robot
31:54and he worked the levers and Springs in
31:58the back and caused her arms to draw the
32:02victim closer and tighter with a
32:05ratcheting sort of effect and increasing
32:07the pressure and the most diabolical
32:09detail is that under the finery her
32:12entire body was studded with nails so
32:16she was an earliest version of an iron
32:19maiden but she was robotic the iron
32:21maiden was not he increased the pressure
32:24so it was a torture device Wow well
32:27let's hear this story was a happy benign
32:29robot Ptolemy the second Philadelphus of
32:36Alexandria was an extremely powerful
32:39monarch he lived in Alexandria which was
32:41the hub the center of innovation and
32:45engineering inventions where craftsmen
32:48and brilliant engineers were actually
32:51creating genuine self-moving devices and
32:55automatons and many of them many of the
32:58most spectacular ones were displayed in
33:01the grand procession of Ptolemy
33:04Philadelphus and this grand procession
33:07went on for days it covered many miles
33:10was a parade of essentially floats there
33:14was for this purpose to show that it was
33:16to show the incredible almost
33:18supernatural and divinely inspired power
33:22of Ptolemy Philadelphus they were really
33:26spectacular I'm sure that they caused a
33:29sensation of the uncanny valley effect
33:32among the observers along the route
33:34these floats were pulled by sometimes
33:37600 men that were so heavy on top of
33:40these carts were gigantic self moving
33:43statues of gods one of them was of
33:47Dionysus and right behind Dionysus came
33:50a statue of the goddess Nasser who had
33:53been the nursemaid of Dionysus and she
33:55was seated on a throne dressed in yellow
33:58silk and she was holding a jug of milk
34:01and a bowl do we know what they were
34:03constructed of and what Meck because
34:05they were so heavy they were probably
34:07not constructed of metal or bronze
34:10perhaps some gold plating but they were
34:13probably constructed of wood and plaster
34:16she was 10 feet tall she periodically
34:20along the route stood up and poured from
34:24the jug into the bowl actual milk which
34:29overflowed onto the root so people could
34:31see that it was actually milk and then
34:33she would sit down again now this has to
34:35be a very robust mechanism for her to
34:39stand I'm wondering whether the milk
34:41even got in there and where that's why
34:43these carts were so heavy and had to be
34:45pulled by so many men so the tank of
34:48milk would be hidden and how do you get
34:50that much milk people have tried to
34:52figure out how the statute worked it had
34:55to be robust enough to allow her to
34:57stand and pour and sit down in a stately
35:01matter as befitting a goddess it
35:02couldn't be jerky or awkward in any way
35:05and she was just one statue of how many
35:07she was just one of them well the parade
35:10there are many of these that's amazing
35:13what a sight so we know that a lot of
35:15the same themes tend to come up right
35:17this relationship of Technology as power
35:20issues around command and control human
35:25questions about sentience and empathy
35:28when it comes to these made not born
35:31beings it gives us is this awareness
35:33right that some of these issues are as
35:35old perhaps as civilization itself
35:37what do we learn from thinking about
35:40these ancient legends and understanding
35:42that the deep deep roots of the
35:45well the deep roots show us that there's
35:48always been a connection between
35:50mythology imagination and science and
35:53the fact that its roots are so deep I
35:56think tells us something about human
35:57nature that we should pay attention to
35:59what do you think it tells us that we'll
36:02never be able to resist trying to
36:04imitate life you've all her Ari has
36:07pointed out that history kinda began
36:10when humans created gods but history
36:13will end when humans become gods
36:15he's also pointed out the relationship
36:18between totalitarianism and automation
36:23and AI so if there's a way of thinking
36:25about going forward right with these
36:27historical imaginings these that are as
36:31old as civilization itself which story
36:34do you think or what would you want for
36:36our founders and our technologists
36:38listening to think about as they bring
36:40the next generation of technology out
36:42into the world you know recently someone
36:44asked me if there's a figure from Greek
36:46mythology that sort of evokes the
36:48conscientious technology engineer or
36:52person who's striving to use AI for the
36:54betterment of humanity and so what it
36:57made me think of was a recently
36:58discovered papyrus that has a fragment
37:01of an unknown myth about Hephaestus oh
37:04how interesting something new was
37:06discovered in 1986 and recently
37:08deciphered and it tells about Hephaestus
37:11forging an automaton in the form of a
37:14to defend the island of Lesbos another
37:17guardian robot there were a lot of these
37:20in myth the god animated this bronze
37:23statue with intelligence and the scrap
37:26says he endowed it with powerful
37:29substances beneficial to mankind that's
37:33the end of the scrap we don't know
37:35anymore but that just seems so
37:39because I think in the Asilomar
37:41conference of 2017 one of the rules that
37:46the AI thinkers came up with is that AI
37:49should be beneficial in the human kind
37:51thank you so much for joining us
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