00:00hi everyone welcome to the asic Cinzia
00:02podcast I'm sonal and I'm here today
00:03with the rune cinder origin who's a
00:05professor at NYU's Stern School of
00:07Business and he's a longtime expert on
00:09the so-called sharing economy the reason
00:13is because a lot of people have a
00:14love-hate relationship with that phrase
00:16they've proposed alternatives like gig
00:18economy there are lots of other
00:20proposals on the table for lack of a
00:22better phrase we're gonna stick to it
00:23and the other reason we're gonna stick
00:24to it is because it happens to be the
00:25title of a runes new book which is
00:27called the sharing economy the end of
00:30employment and the rise of crowd-based
00:31capitalism welcome Arun good to be here
00:34so no well it's funny everyone cuz I do
00:36recall we wrote an op-ed about 40 over 4
00:39years ago in Wired and I think it was
00:41one of the very early op eds we didn't
00:42coin the term by any means but I did do
00:44a google search at the time and I only
00:46saw it used in a few places and I
00:48remember having the little fight with
00:50the headline desk because the title of
00:52the op-ed is why the government should
00:54not regulate the sharing economy and
00:56they were like what the hell is a
00:58sharing economy well for the next few
01:00years I being the government and so that
01:17makes me happy to hear that the term has
01:18been around for a while and I think we
01:19do talk about it a lot but you're
01:22writing one of the early definitive
01:23books on the topic I actually would love
01:26to deep dive on some of the things that
01:27people don't talk about you have a
01:29subtitle called the end of employment
01:30and the rise of crowd-based capitalism
01:32and that part is what I find very
01:35intriguing do you want to quickly break
01:37down for us what you mean by the rise of
01:38crowd-based capitalism the crowd-based
01:40has to do with a shift away from
01:43traditional twentieth-century
01:45institutions that would hire their own
01:48employees and acquire their own
01:50resources and you know then produce
01:54goods and services for us and the
01:56capitalism part is to underscore the
01:58fact that while the term sharing economy
02:00might sound like we are not engaging in
02:03commerce what's happening is very
02:06commercial it's bringing a little bit of
02:08gift into the capitalism but at its
02:10heart there are prices being set the
02:14matched and it is just a new way of
02:16organizing economic activity that at its
02:18heart is capitalist one of the themes
02:20that came up on a recent podcast we did
02:22with the US Secretary of Commerce penny
02:23Pritzker was that the Department of
02:26Commerce is looking into figuring out
02:28how to actually capture this new kind of
02:30capitalism into the economic measures of
02:32GDP and so I'd love to hear from you on
02:35you're an economist by training and why
02:37that is such a challenge and we'd have
02:38to go into great detail on this but I
02:40think it's important to talk about
02:40because it's a topic that comes up a lot
02:42and whether you agree with the academic
02:45nature of the discussion or not
02:46it does impact where people put funding
02:49how people allocate resources how they
02:51think about policy and everything
02:52related to the topic of the future of
02:55work just a very basic level like what's
02:57the main problem what GDP is a measure
02:58for separating the world I think we can
03:01break down the trouble with GDP into at
03:03least three buckets the first is that
03:06there's a lot of value that's created by
03:08technological progress like you know the
03:11value you get from Google searches the
03:13value you get from sort of connecting
03:14with other people on Facebook there's
03:16sort of the surplus that you know
03:18consumers enjoy that aren't captured
03:21this this isn't captured by GDP and so
03:23if that's relatively small it doesn't
03:26matter but technological progress
03:28especially progress the digital
03:29technologies seems to make this consumer
03:32surplus piece pretty big and GDP is not
03:35measuring that it's just measuring the
03:36flows is measuring the prices that we
03:38pay and the revenues that firms get so
03:40that's one problem a second problem has
03:43to do with distribution GDP is a total
03:46measure meaning it's adding up all of
03:47the dollars and it's not giving us a
03:50sense for how equally or unequally
03:52they're distributed so for example about
03:5580% of India now has access to a mobile
03:58phone I'm a couple of decades ago that
04:01was just 10% and so we've not just seen
04:03an increase in consumer surplus here but
04:05we've seen like a tremendous reduction
04:08and inequality of access that just
04:10doesn't get picked up by GDP right the
04:12distribution of those smart phones
04:14absolutely and a third reason has to do
04:17with other quality of life measures that
04:19are becoming increasingly important if
04:21all that you care about is how much
04:24money you earn then GDP is a
04:27measure of how much everybody is earning
04:29or at least one s11 form of GDP but once
04:32you start to value other things like the
04:34work/life balance that you get from
04:37providing through the sharing economy or
04:39by running your small business on Etsy
04:41the fact that you're doing something
04:43that you like and have you have the
04:44flexibility of switching to something
04:46none of these aspects of work are well
04:49captured by GDP and this wouldn't matter
04:52if it was just sort of a small handful
04:54of people who were engaging in this kind
04:56of freelance activity but now as
04:58crowd-based capitalism goes mainstream
05:00it's going to highlight how there's a
05:03big disconnect between what we're
05:05measuring which is GDP and what we value
05:08as things that really point to progress
05:11and so as this gap starts to grow I
05:15think much like there's a gap between
05:17the observations and the theories that
05:20leads to a paradigm shift in Koons
05:22theory of the structure of scientific
05:24revolutions it's gonna take something
05:27like the expansion of the sharing
05:29economy to highlight how there's a big
05:32disconnect between what we're measuring
05:33which is GDP and how much an economy is
05:37progressing or not progressing so people
05:39have had problems of GDP forever but
05:41you're arguing that the gig economy and
05:43the sharing economy or crowd-based
05:45capitalism as we're calling it that that
05:47will be a driver for getting people to
05:49really to really push economists towards
05:51this shift it could sort of be the
05:53change that triggers the paradigm shift
05:56away from GDP as the measure of progress
05:59and towards something that is more
06:01inclusive right well let's spend a few
06:03minutes talking about the economic
06:05effects of the sharing economy because
06:07you know for better or worse you you are
06:10an economist by training you've done a
06:11lot of research on the sharing economy
06:13in traditional economic terms what how
06:16do you think about the impact of what it
06:18brings so I have categorize the
06:21traditional economic impacts of the
06:24sharing economy or crowd-based
06:25capitalism into four key impacts the
06:29first is how we are increasing capital
06:32of assets of money through more
06:35efficient use of it so you might think
06:39of this as leading in the long run
06:41an increase in productivity because
06:43you're using stuff more efficiently and
06:45so that's one impact a second impact has
06:48to do with an increase in consumption
06:50that comes from greater variety so let's
06:54contrast for example the level of
06:56variety that you have on a B&B with the
06:59level of variety you have in the hotel
07:01industry there's just so much more
07:03choice of so many different
07:05configurations and kinds of
07:06accommodation on a platform like Airbnb
07:09economists disagree about most things
07:11but there are two things that economists
07:13a very important one is that when you
07:16increase efficiency and you increase
07:19productivity this leads to long-run
07:21economic growth and the second thing
07:23they agree about is that when you
07:25increase variety you increase the amount
07:27that people consume and increased
07:30consumption also leads to economic
07:31growth so those two factors increased
07:35capital impact and increased variety
07:38have a decidedly positive prognosis for
07:41how crowd-based capitalism is gonna
07:43alter the economy you're also really
07:46talking about people who maybe could
07:48have no afforded certain choice like
07:49before choice was the province of the
07:51wealthy you're also describing a
07:53phenomenon where people just get more
07:54choice whether they can afford it or not
07:56there's there's a democratization of
07:58opportunity here and this goes back to
08:01what we were discussing when we talked
08:03about GDP a little because it points to
08:07the fact that maybe we shouldn't be
08:08measuring just how equal or unequal
08:11income and wealth are but how equal or
08:14unequal are accessed things that give
08:18you a high standard of living so you
08:21know if I can buy a Tesla use it when I
08:25want to use it and then rent it out on a
08:27peer-to-peer car rental marketplace when
08:29I'm not using it I'll be able to afford
08:31a better car if I can't afford that car
08:34I might still be able to access it when
08:36I want it if there's a fluid pure pure
08:38rental market and so by removing
08:41ownership as a barrier to access you're
08:45in some ways equalizing people's
08:47opportunity to go after that higher
08:49standard of living but there's more to
08:51that democratization of opportunity
08:54what we're also doing as we shift the
08:56workforce away from being providers of
08:59Labor and towards tiny business owners
09:02were increasing the fraction of the
09:04population that owns the means of
09:07production and one of the things we
09:09learnt a couple of years ago from
09:10piketty's book capital in the 21st
09:13century that book that everybody talks
09:15about but nobody's actually read
09:19misusing you because you're allowed to
09:21talk about it anyway but yeah everybody
09:23quotes from it nobody's actually read
09:25the whole thing from start to finish
09:27anyway the core of piketty's argument
09:29about inequality increasing all the time
09:33is that people who own capital who own
09:36the means of production see a faster
09:38rate of growth of income than people who
09:41earn wages and so the gap between the
09:43haves and have-nots spans over time so
09:46by the same argument if we increase the
09:48fraction of the population who are
09:50owners if we shift people away from
09:52being labor providers and towards being
09:54owners of tiny short-term accommodation
09:56businesses on a b-and-b of tiny retail
09:58operations on Etsy of like tiny grocery
10:01stores on LaRouche POV then you're
10:03increasing the fraction of the
10:04population who will see those faster
10:06rates of growth and overtime this could
10:08reduce inequality so that's the third
10:11aspect the democratization of not just
10:13access to stuff but also of ownership of
10:16the means of production of society I
10:18want to hear your fourth your fourth
10:20bucket and then we'll come back to that
10:21ok well the fourth bucket is really it's
10:24where we're gonna see some positives and
10:26some negatives and this has to do with
10:29some gains and some losses of economies
10:31of scale for those of us who aren't
10:33economists an economy of scale is when
10:35as you increase the amount of something
10:39that you produce your costs go down or
10:42your ability to produce it improves
10:44relative to the competition traditional
10:46economies of scale come from like having
10:48a big manufacturing plant and so it's
10:50possible that as we move from massive
10:53industrial production to millions of
10:56makers who are making things that we may
10:58lose some economies of scale but I argue
11:01in the book how we're probably going to
11:03reclaim some of those ok so I do want to
11:06go back to the point you mentioned
11:07the democratization of opportunity and
11:09the reality is that I have not yet to be
11:11in a lyft or uber where someone is
11:12actually taking their Tesla in the road
11:14so I want a probe on this idea of how
11:17Jamaa critizing it really is because one
11:19of the common prevailing complaints that
11:21I've heard is that well okay come on is
11:23that are the benefits really accruing to
11:25the producers now or are we just shifted
11:28that it's now just going to the platform
11:30owners and they're the ones who are
11:32really extracting all the value and that
11:33no one else is how would you respond to
11:35those critics I I think we should look
11:38at the data I've done some research on
11:40my own I've seen research done by others
11:42fundamentally we should realize that the
11:44nature of the relationship between the
11:47individual and the institution shifts
11:50from the 20th century industrial model
11:53of you are a provider of labour to one
11:57in which you are a small business owner
11:59and so however much wealth is created by
12:03the platforms this is something that is
12:05empowering for the individuals and maybe
12:07later in the conversation we can talk
12:09about policy challenges that come up
12:11around labor protection but that's
12:13that's an important starting point that
12:15this is fundamentally empowering for the
12:17individual alongside each tech
12:19billionaire that the sharing economy
12:20creates it also creates millions of
12:23small entrepreneurs and this
12:25distinguishes the sharing economy from
12:27some of the technological advances that
12:30preceded it it's not just the software
12:33engineers and the people with Google
12:35stock who are then a fitting financially
12:37it's also the millions of entrepreneurs
12:38who are providing through the platform
12:41my own research has shown that if you
12:44project what the sharing economy is
12:46doing forward a significant fraction of
12:49the value creation is captured by people
12:51below median income in fact the rate of
12:54growth of the value creation for people
12:58below median income is significantly
12:59higher I'm glad that you can bear that
13:01out in the numbers because people always
13:03doubt those values but it's nice to have
13:05data to actually back it up there's some
13:07research from JP Morgan Chase that looks
13:09at today's distribution I project into
13:11the future they find that the top 20% of
13:13income earners are earning a little more
13:16through the sharing economy than the
13:17bottom 20% but you look at that
13:19distribution you compare the
13:21to the actual income distribution and
13:23you see that it's redistributed which is
13:26that people in the top 20% on ten times
13:29as much as say people in the bottom 20%
13:31but they're earning a dollar 20 for
13:33every dollar that someone in the bottom
13:3520% is earning from the sharing economy
13:37so fundamentally that income is reducing
13:42so then on the policy side what's your
13:44views on how we should then consider
13:46protecting the benefits of people who
13:49are in these systems this is the big
13:51policy challenge for the next 20 years
13:53so I so I think that the question of how
13:56do we create a new funding model for the
13:59social safety net of the 21st century
14:01workforce that is exactly the question
14:04here's why it's a challenge today it's
14:07because over the 20th century we made
14:09great strides in constructing a social
14:12safety net for the full time employee
14:15and it made sense to do that because
14:17that was the dominant way in which
14:19people made a living so now you've got
14:21that status of full-time employee and
14:23it's got a good funding model you work
14:25for someone full-time they pay you a
14:26salary they spend some more money on
14:29providing your safety net whether it's
14:31income stability European vacations or
14:33health insurance some other benefits but
14:35once you move away from being a
14:38full-time employee to being a small
14:41business owner through a platform a
14:43comparable funding model for the safety
14:46net doesn't yet exist that doesn't mean
14:49that the model of micro entrepreneurship
14:51is flawed it just means that it hasn't
14:53been around for long so we haven't spent
14:55the last few decades creating the
14:57funding model I think the answer is
15:00gonna come from some partnership in the
15:03short term between the individual the
15:06government and some third party
15:08institution I don't see the u.s. at
15:11least as moving towards a model where
15:13the government is going to provide the
15:14entire social safety net this may work
15:16in some countries in Europe like Finland
15:19and Sweden where the population is small
15:21and the tax rates are high and there's a
15:23history of a government provided safety
15:25net but in the u.s. in a similar way to
15:27how we created 401 k plans as a response
15:31to companies not paying pensions
15:34we're in the 50s you work for a company
15:36you retired they give you a pension that
15:38funding model stopped working and so we
15:41created the partnership model where the
15:43individual contributes the company
15:45matches and the government gives you a
15:47tax break and so we need to create
15:49similar funding models for other slices
15:52of the social safety net and I actually
15:55am pretty optimistic about the fact that
15:57we can create them because every company
16:01today that employs people full-time is
16:03also sort of like an insurance company I
16:05think that's a crux of the issue and how
16:07you move from that to this world
16:09where you may have a lot more gig
16:11economy workers than captive workers and
16:14a company for 20 years how do you then
16:16solve for that it just means that we've
16:18got to move the role of the insurance
16:21provider in some sense away from the
16:23company of the 24 20th century now we've
16:26got to create a way in which that
16:27insurance comes from somewhere else and
16:30but we've got like a pool of million
16:32millions of providers to sort of
16:34diversify this risk over so I actually
16:37think that where we end up eventually
16:39will be far more efficient than each
16:42company individually stabilizing income
16:45and paying for vacation for their
16:47full-time employees I always make the
16:49argument on this podcast as well that
16:50the third party ecosystem for those
16:51types of services just hasn't grown up
16:53yet because we're still in the early
16:54days and we have yet to see what's gonna
16:56come out I'm confident that the pace at
16:58which we make progress in creating this
17:01new social safety net will be far more
17:03rapid over the next 20 years than it was
17:06like a hundred years ago just a quick
17:09question then what does this mean for
17:10regulation and the government's role in
17:12this what you're really talking about
17:13irune is a shift to the new future of
17:15work what do you see as the key
17:17challenges of that shift well like you
17:21know let me start with some of the
17:22benefits of that shift because you know
17:25we can tie what's happening here to
17:28offshoring which dominated the
17:30conversation about the future of work
17:32about a decade ago and automation which
17:35is dominating the conversation about the
17:37future of work today the conversation is
17:39often dominated by work going to other
17:41countries and by work being taken over
17:43by robots the point I'm trying to make
17:46a contemporaneous change in how we
17:49organize work the extent to which work
17:52is organized through marketplaces the
17:54extent to which were becoming
17:55generalists and the immediacy with which
17:58you can tap into resources and labor
18:01that's equally important for the future
18:04of work I don't think we'd contest that
18:07the question for me is if we accept as a
18:09given that this might be the future of
18:11work and that it changes the nature of
18:13the firm the topic I love talking about
18:15this podcast and how do we answer the
18:16questions to people who are going to be
18:17completely affected by this well you
18:20know as we make this transition from a
18:22workforce that is inside companies to
18:25one that is sort of connected to these
18:27new firm market hybrids these platforms
18:30that are somewhere in between in a firm
18:31in a market that's interesting phrase
18:33for market hybrids it's a natural next
18:36step we had markets in the 18th century
18:38we had organizations in the 19th and
18:4020th and now we've got this interesting
18:41in-between so there's the social safety
18:44net challenge that we've already talked
18:46about in some detail I think that
18:49there's a bad little conversation about
18:53decentralizing the ownership of the
18:55platform's themselves there's a lot of
18:57excitement in certain circles about the
19:00potential from provider owned platforms
19:03or platform cooperatives most companies
19:06in the United States are organized as
19:09shareholder corporation a cooperative
19:11says well there is shared ownership
19:14among the people who are providers or
19:17who are sort of doing the work and so a
19:19worker cooperative would be like Sunkist
19:22every farmer is a part owner of a
19:25cooperative and they all share in the
19:28ownership of the enterprise itself
19:30there's a lot of excitement today about
19:33the potential for creating new shared
19:36ownership models for platforms some
19:39people label them platform cooperatives
19:41I'm cautiously optimistic about their
19:44potential in certain spheres to me the
19:48shareholder cooperation is still a good
19:50model that's what plenty of life in it
19:52the challenge that gives me the most
19:55concern is something that oh Malik a few
19:58years ago labeled arid urbanism
20:00it raises the specter that as we become
20:03providers through platforms that rating
20:06that you have through a platform and
20:08that portfolio of work that your
20:10platform provision represents will
20:13increasingly become what determines
20:16whether or not you get access to future
20:18opportunities the ratings are incredibly
20:20important component of the sharing
20:21economy and you made this very argument
20:23to me four years ago that it's a way
20:25that you know that you can trust and
20:27appear to pure way it's a way that you
20:28can create a reputation build that sort
20:30of currency that's part of it for sure
20:33but there's also the fact that this
20:35reputation is created in part by other
20:37people perceiving how good you were and
20:40so if you happen to have a bad day that
20:43could curb your access to future driving
20:47jobs or there are people who decide that
20:49they just don't like you for some reason
20:52I mean there are so many biases that
20:54human beings have that I want to belong
20:56to a particular category where people
20:59are biased against you your ratings are
21:02going to suffer as a consequence and so
21:04that's something that we have to think
21:05about carefully how do we design our
21:07algorithms in a way that corrects for
21:10any bias that might be inherent in these
21:13reputation systems so that you don't
21:15create a new division of access between
21:18one category of people and another in a
21:20lot of ways it's no different than what
21:22happens in real life institutions where
21:24you have a probably a far far worse
21:26system you're so subject and a lot of
21:29companies to the whims of one person's
21:31review and it could make or break you in
21:33certain opportunities there's a lot of
21:34interpersonal politics that can come
21:37into play at least in this case there's
21:39some instrumentation there's some
21:40systemic approach there's some way of
21:42getting multiple data points yeah
21:44there's there's really a lot of
21:45opportunity here because we are well
21:48aware of the biases that exist in
21:50traditional organizational evaluation
21:52and we've got laws that are in place now
21:56we need to bring that thinking into a
21:58world in which your reputation is your
22:01gateway to access so what are some of
22:03the solutions that you see to the data
22:05Darwinism I mean there are two solutions
22:07right one is you can either remove bias
22:09from human society impossible yes the
22:12Lucian is to train your algorithms to
22:15recognize and correct it and in some
22:18ways if an algorithm is monitoring the
22:20ratings that might represent a vast
22:22improvement over human judgment that
22:25happens within an organization but we've
22:28got to make sure that the platforms that
22:30are running these reputation systems are
22:33consciously aware of it maybe are even
22:36required to be aware of it in the same
22:37way that companies are required to
22:39comply with anti-discrimination laws and
22:41that pay program that algorithms to look
22:44for detect and correct this kind of bias
22:45I don't like it when people treat
22:47algorithms as this you know uber all's
22:49solution to everything but what is
22:51inherently interesting in this is this
22:52idea that whereas in human life the very
22:56things that are your limitations are
22:57also your advantages but they actually
22:59are often in conflict at least on the
23:01algorithmic world you could turn the
23:03problem on its head and turn it into a
23:04solution so one last question a room
23:06then to come full circle to where we
23:07started not on this podcast but four
23:09years ago with the regulation side of
23:11things where what have you seen change
23:13in that four year period in terms of
23:15where the government is going with
23:16regulating the sharing economy I want to
23:18know what you've been seeing from their
23:19front lines what seems to be happening
23:21is that regulation is actually growing
23:23except the party that is conducting the
23:26regulation is largely non-governmental
23:29so what do you mean by that you know ten
23:31years ago with New York City taxis there
23:33was a bunch of regulations and the Taxi
23:36and Limousine Commission was setting
23:38those regulations was enforcing them was
23:41doing the inspections was cleaning the
23:43drivers now with lyft and uber you've
23:46actually got a greater amount of
23:48regulation because there are so many
23:49more drivers there's a whole host of
23:52guidelines that they have to follow
23:53there are rules that they have to follow
23:54but a lot of the regulatory
23:56responsibility for enforcement has been
23:59delegated to the platforms themselves so
24:02there's more regulation going on it's
24:04just that a lot of it has been moved to
24:06a different stakeholder it's not the
24:08government doing it directly but it's
24:10the government playing a different role
24:12of like maybe setting some of the
24:14regulations providing advice on them and
24:16then some other party in society which
24:19happens to be the transportation network
24:21company is actually and forcing the
24:23regulations and do you think that's the
24:24direction that it should
24:25genuine or do you see that evolving over
24:27time well I think it's actually going to
24:29evolve to other stakeholders and not
24:32just the platform's also being part of
24:34the regulatory solution for example
24:37homeowner associations may become the
24:39entity that decides a building's policy
24:42towards Airbnb that's another example of
24:44a party other than the government taking
24:47on some of that regulatory
24:48responsibility I think the most exciting
24:51potential comes from looking where the
24:55data to solve a problem is and then
24:57delegating regulatory responsibilities
25:00to the party that holds the data that's
25:02that's really interesting because data
25:03is such a key key part of this there's a
25:06lot of excitement and there has been for
25:07the last decade about open data which is
25:10sort of an idea of going in the opposite
25:13direction where platforms or other
25:15entities handover data to the government
25:17for regulatory reasons what I'm
25:19suggesting instead is that let's hand
25:22over regulatory responsibilities to the
25:24party that has the data and so instead
25:28of telling hosts to register with the
25:30city and then the city collecting taxes
25:32from them let's just tell Airbnb listen
25:35you have the data you figure out who
25:36owes what you collect it and you remit
25:39it to the government and we may be
25:40subject you to an audit or instead of
25:43telling Oberyn lyft give us your data so
25:45we can figure out if there's any sort of
25:47you know ethnicity based discrimination
25:50that your drivers are practicing we tell
25:53Oberyn left listen here are the laws we
25:56want you to invent new machine learning
25:58based ways of detecting and correcting
26:00this and give us some sort of compliance
26:02if you think about what's happened with
26:04credit card fraud detection the credit
26:06card company is in some sense have been
26:09delegated the responsibility of
26:11detecting fraud the science has advanced
26:14so dramatically over the last 20 years
26:16you know imagine what would have
26:19happened if the government had instead
26:20said listen credit card companies give
26:22me all your data and will detect the
26:24Freid I think that'd be potential for
26:26creating new ways of enforcing existing
26:30laws and new solutions to problems
26:33ranging from discrimination to safety
26:35screening to host source of to a whole
26:37host of other problems
26:39is the greatest when instead of saying
26:41give me your data we say here's the
26:44responsibility you do the regulation or
26:47the incense incentives are more aligned
26:48because everyone benefits yeah and if
26:51the incentives aren't perfectly aligned
26:53if you worried that perhaps but might
26:55not take safety as seriously as society
26:58wants to take safety then up quick fixes
27:01for that it doesn't mean that you take
27:02back all of the responsibility you just
27:04align the incentives a little I'm in
27:06there imagining an example like
27:07discrimination at local levels but if
27:09you have a wide spreading you know
27:11regulation that this is how you're gonna
27:12comply with it and you have to do this
27:14then everybody has to adhere to that and
27:16that's one way of resolving the tension
27:18for those kinds of cases in some sense
27:21if you think about the future of
27:22regulation we've come full-circle we
27:24started out by talking about how the
27:26government doesn't need to regulate the
27:28sharing economy which was the headline
27:30which sort of captured the idea of that
27:33article but you might modify it to say
27:36well the government doesn't need to
27:37regulate the sharing economy the way it
27:40regulated the industrial economy because
27:42there's gonna be a whole host of other
27:44stakeholders who are participating in
27:46the regulation that's exactly the
27:48direction that makes sense given the
27:50evolution of the future of work the firm
27:53this ecosystem and the way people work
27:55well thank you Arun people should just
27:57read your book because it's a wonderful
27:59output of a so much research and
28:01thoughtfulness about this topic I don't
28:03think there's actually anything else
28:04like it but it's great to hear it
28:05especially from you Oh welcome and
28:07thanks for joining the a 6nc podcast
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