00:00thank you for coming today my name is
00:01Dora I'm one of the partners here at Y
00:03Combinator and today we're going to talk
00:05with have a conversation with ich Magog
00:06who is the CEO and founder of gobble
00:09which creates and delivers 15-minute pan
00:13I am personally a happy customer it's
00:16great for people who don't have time to
00:19do grocery shopping prep ingredients
00:22actually cook and then clean up
00:25afterwards so so gobble started in 2011
00:28and while it's doing pretty well today
00:31it's growing around 100 million revenue
00:33per week I believe it's gone through its
00:36many ups and downs and so future my
00:38today I want to talk to her about a
00:40couple things one is evolution of her
00:43business she's mostly been in the food
00:46business but it's iterated her business
00:48model many times and so I think it'd be
00:49interesting to talk about that and then
00:51to is something she's an expert in which
00:54is grit and determination I think she's
00:57one of the few people that I've seen
00:59that just never gives up and so I think
01:03in termination or one the qualities many
01:05people think they have but when
01:07hits the fan things start to fall apart
01:09and so I think it's also interesting to
01:12talk about so with that I would love to
01:13welcome you to the stage thank you
01:34so welcome oozma thank you for having me
01:37thank you for coming so maybe we can
01:40just briefly start from the very
01:41beginning you were a student at Stanford
01:44and I believe you start your first
01:45company then which was correct new
01:49client got this wrong is you help
01:50students get jobs at banks and yes he's
01:54obviously that didn't work out and you
01:56did cobble instead but can you explain
01:58why that didn't work out and what made
02:01you think that you should just move on
02:03sure so back when I was at Stanford they
02:09started this company out of my dorm room
02:10and fun visual is that I had this like
02:15you know 150 200 square foot room like
02:18with no space and I lofted my bed like
02:21five inches from the ceiling and stuffed
02:23some like IKEA desks under my bed we
02:26could only fit like three desks in there
02:28I was a junior so I hired all these
02:31freshman really smart freshmen as
02:33interns and got a boyfriend so I could
02:36sleep somewhere else for the business
02:38joking and and then our dorm room became
02:42our office and I hid the key in the
02:45girls bathroom and people would come
02:47between class and get the key from my
02:50like pink shower caddy and then go into
02:52my dorm room and work on our startup so
02:54that was our house my first company in
02:56Napa de and the idea was to help
02:59students get jobs I was head of this
03:01group Stanford women in business so we
03:03were matching people to banks and law
03:04firms and consulting firms and and I
03:07worked on that for three years I
03:09bootstrapped it and no one would fund me
03:11they told me the idea was too nice or
03:15what-have-you but really no one was
03:18using LinkedIn at the time and all of
03:22these students are looking for work so I
03:24thought that we could really be the
03:26LinkedIn for for students and it was all
03:29centered around their interests and
03:30student groups long story short the idea
03:33was working and we were making we were
03:36making money like these companies would
03:38write us $20,000 $25,000 checks for
03:43for annual subscriptions to my
03:46recruiting website and it was a
03:49two-sided marketplace so what really
03:51happened is first of all I poured
03:53everything I had into the business and
03:55and my health went down the drain which
03:59later leads to gobble but um
04:03what ended up happening is I learned the
04:05hard lesson that whoever pays you kind
04:09of owns you and determines how your
04:11product evolves so these banks and
04:14consulting firms and all of them were
04:16paying me and they wanted to recruit
04:18students based on quotas based on like
04:23their GPA or their race or their you
04:27know other parts of their background
04:29that didn't really have to do with if
04:31they were a good cultural match and so
04:35anyways I I was making money but the
04:36mission and the the initial like a
04:40vision and all of that of the business
04:42of helping people find the good jobs
04:43wasn't true anymore so I actually got to
04:48a very dark place and ended up selling
04:51the business so it could have worked but
04:53the less and it could have worked longer
04:54term but it wasn't the business I
04:57initially intended and I'm not the kind
05:00of person who you know was just gonna do
05:02something to make money I want to do
05:03something that I believe in so in our
05:09third year we were taking off with law
05:11firms there are thousands of law firms
05:14and only tens of banks on Wall Street
05:16and so I sold it to a company called law
05:18works and basically their their
05:20recruiting company and software and they
05:22wanted to add community to their to
05:24their offering at that time it was like
05:272010 and social and communities and all
05:31of that where we're not as common as
05:33they are now so you mentioned briefly
05:36this is good transition and we talking
05:38about gobble in the beginning your
05:40health was going down the drain yeah how
05:42did that actually turn into gobble
05:44itself yeah and I'm sure as you all are
05:48you know too familiar with starting a
05:51company at least especially in the first
05:53thousand days is very very lonely
05:56very few people believe in the idea
05:58outside of yourself and most people
06:01most people don't care about you and so
06:04you're the only thing that keeps
06:05yourself going and maybe your co-founder
06:08your partner but your partner's sick of
06:10hearing about it and your co-founder may
06:11or may not work out so there's lots of
06:14loneliness and and basically this I
06:19became just very insular I stopped
06:22visiting my family and my friends I was
06:23working on the business but I was
06:26staying up too late and then waking up
06:28too late and then just eating like all
06:29this takeout and soda and I think it not
06:34only affects your physical health and I
06:35gained a lot of weight but it also
06:36affects your mental health as all of
06:40that came to a head when my dad insisted
06:43on visiting and I was here in California
06:46my parents are in Texas and my dad is
06:49the head of nutrition at UT Southwestern
06:51and Texas so he spent 30 years of his
06:54life studying diabetes obesity and
06:57nutrition so and then at home he would
07:00make sure we all ate home-cooked food
07:02and like real good food so and your
07:07parents always know when something's
07:08wrong you can't lie to them it's just a
07:12matter of time so um so anyways he like
07:16got on a plane actually first he cooked
07:18for three days and made all of this like
07:21home-cooked Indian food stuffed it in
07:23these like international suitcases that
07:25were like you know nicely packed and
07:27checked in everything's in foil and zip
07:30locks and whatever flew here in a
07:33California to my like little dingy
07:35studio apartment and without even saying
07:38hello comes in the apartment goes to the
07:41fridge and starts like stuffing the food
07:43in the fridge and it just showed like
07:46his anger and sadness and emotion about
07:50like me not taking care of myself and
07:52how bad things had gotten and he warmed
07:56a little plate of some sub Z which is
07:59like a vegetable Indian dish with some
08:01bread and rice and just put it in front
08:03of me and I had this like IKEA
08:05two-person dining table in a corner and
08:07I ate this first bite and I just
08:10I started crying uncontrollably because
08:13the food was so good and it showed me
08:16that I like that's how much I had lost
08:19and it wasn't just nutrition it was like
08:21a sense of self and being and that's
08:23really easy to do um
08:26and so anyways that first bite of my
08:28dad's home cooking inspired gobble and
08:31that moment was when I decided that the
08:34home cooking and the sense of family
08:36dinner is very important to me so the
08:39first version on gobble if I got it
08:41correctly it was a marketplace for
08:42people to create home-cooked meals and
08:45sell it on the marketplace
08:46so that was 2011 and then I believe then
08:49then one year later you turned it into
08:51if I have this written down catering yes
08:55and then a year later it was
08:57personalized dinner service and then to
08:59what it is pretty much what it's today
09:0150 minute dinner kids so maybe you could
09:04start off with if you remember your
09:06one-liner for each four of those
09:08business models to help us distinguish
09:12the difference between those four
09:13absolutely I definitely remember the
09:15first one because it it's what I raised
09:17our seed round off of so we started
09:19after I ate that food I wanted to
09:24replicate my dad in the bay area and I
09:25posted on Craigslist and looked for moms
09:27or dads that would cook for me anyway
09:30the way that we described the idea it
09:32ultimately became a marketplace for
09:34personal chefs and and families and we
09:37described it as peer-to-peer lasagna and
09:40everyone remember that and just set it
09:43and it was catchy and weird and and the
09:46peer-to-peer economy was really hot at
09:48the time Airbnb was just coming up Etsy
09:51was coming up and there were all these
09:52like rental or sharing startups in 2010
09:54to 2012 so that's how he described the
09:57marketplace Catering was just like
10:00home-cooked food for office the
10:02personalized dinner service was exactly
10:05that it was meals personalized exactly
10:08to your tastes and our current dinner
10:11kits we describe as just as a meal prep
10:15service 15-minute one pan cooking so
10:20everyone who built the product always
10:24very first user who wasn't their mom or
10:26dad or family do you remember that
10:28person and what was he or she like yeah
10:34so recently I met one of our very first
10:38like 10 users the guy's name is she'll
10:41tile and it's really funny I actually
10:43met him and he was a user of ours in
10:462011 so now it's some seven eight years
10:49later I met him a few weeks ago at a
10:52wedding in New York and he was like are
10:55you yeah and he's like I used to eat
10:59your food and he you know your product
11:01goes through so many iterations that
11:03when someone remembers like the first
11:05website of yours and all that those bugs
11:07and things it's really special he was a
11:10Stanford student and he would email us
11:12like pages of feedback you know every
11:15time you tried the food and so it was
11:18kind of a the canonical early adopter
11:21that's someone who really wants to work
11:23with you and who wants to help improve
11:25your company and like make it good for
11:28them and for everybody else so in the
11:31beginning you also did a lot of
11:32unscalable things to get users I read
11:35you you did promo cards everywhere you
11:37went the Starbucks and I just bother
11:39people - yes order from gobble so all of
11:44those things probably didn't work but
11:45anything that you remember that actually
11:47works yeah and there are two things that
11:51that worked and I was reflecting on this
11:56one of them is um I guess the things
11:59that work is when you're just starting
12:01out you you can't throw a million
12:04dollars into Facebook ads in one week
12:06but it doesn't also work to just like
12:09talk to ten individuals that's to
12:11unscalable so it's all about reaching
12:13like micro groups one thing I did is I
12:16would go to my favorite I went to all my
12:17favorite shops like coffee shops
12:19restaurants laundromats whatever and I
12:21actually bought card holders on on like
12:25a whatever equipment website and made
12:28promo cards that were business card size
12:30and it said like two free dinners gobble
12:33comm and it and it had the restaurants
12:35name on the back one of the first
12:38valuable innovations or features that we
12:41released into our product was the
12:44ability to accept promo codes because
12:46attribution of your growth is extremely
12:49important from day one or else I can't
12:51tell you what's working or not working
12:53so there's zombie runners on California
12:56Avenue this is coffee shop and and it's
12:59inside a running store that what used to
13:01be a movie theater it's very weird you
13:03should go there it's my favorite coffee
13:05shop and and so they put a little thing
13:08at their at their register and it turned
13:10out to be more effective than the nail
13:12salons the laundromats anything else
13:15another YC company order a head actually
13:18for a while was very successful with
13:21coffee shops and promos and ordering at
13:23coffee shops one other thing was I
13:26I spoke to as many like meetup groups or
13:30moms groups and neighborhood groups as
13:34possible and I would get them I would
13:36always try to have an offer that was I
13:38tested offers and I knew what would work
13:40so every single one of them would send
13:43my offer on their email list and it had
13:45to be an email with your offer to a
13:48group and that converted the attribution
13:51point is very I think key there which is
13:53even if you're doing a spray-and-pray
13:55method of just like everyone used me at
13:57least you know when they come in the
13:59door were they actually absolutely yes
14:01cool so again and going back to the
14:05evolution of the business at what point
14:07in each of the business model did you
14:09realize oh this isn't it I gotta think
14:11of something else right the funny thing
14:14is that and so first of all we talked
14:18about these business models all of that
14:19was going on for from 2011 to 2014 so
14:24between three and a half years which is
14:26still roughly that thousand days of
14:28finding product market fit we had four
14:31different iterations to the product and
14:33this is a minor little point but I know
14:35that I think Michael Seibel spoke
14:36recently and he said that he talked
14:39about the difference between pivoting
14:40and iterating and I thought that was
14:43really important because people say
14:44gobble pivoted but we didn't pivot we
14:47didn't turn into some like you know
14:49online video game we just it
14:51and then found success and I think that
14:54a lot of nuance is important because
14:56pivoting I think you don't carry a lot
14:59of your learnings with you
15:00iterating is always building on your
15:03previous learnings so with these
15:05business models they and different
15:08iterations and launches they all failed
15:10for different reasons we had a market
15:14place first and and everyone loved the
15:17food because it was this authentic
15:19small-batch home-cooked food from like
15:23Italian grandmas and Mexican moms and
15:26like Ethiopian chefs and things and food
15:29you can't get anywhere else
15:30it's not like ruined by capitalism I
15:32guess anyways that food wasn't scalable
15:37so we started getting success with that
15:39marketplace idea but when I asked this
15:43like Italian mom and San Carlos to make
15:45me 200 of her lasagna when she used to
15:48make 20 a day it wasn't fun anymore
15:50and she didn't want to make 200 and she
15:53wasn't a caterer so that that model um
15:58you know Airbnb is a peer-to-peer model
16:01that can scale and it's sharing an asset
16:03it's sharing a space this is a
16:06peer-to-peer model that has a lot of
16:08like break points at scale of quality
16:11time capacity and so on so that that's
16:16why the marketplace model didn't work we
16:18were supply constrained not by the
16:20number of chefs but by the juice we
16:23could squeeze from each of our SKUs on
16:25the marketplace then we pivoted to de
16:29catering because we had built that
16:31marketplace with seed funding and we
16:35were we maybe had like a half a year of
16:37money left or something but one of our
16:39investors was very insistent that we had
16:43our growth with money and we do
16:45something that'll definitely make us
16:47money and so I went into the catering
16:48world frankly to me I think it's very
16:52easy and and I didn't really want to do
16:56it you just get we got like box.net and
17:00Pinterest and these companies signed on
17:02and they rarely quit and so you're just
17:04making this money in the
17:05background we did that we made good
17:08money and we showed growth but the
17:10problem is that when we went to raise
17:12series a the investors asked how much of
17:15your money is from families and the
17:18model you're pitching and how much of
17:20your money is from catering and from
17:22enterprise and at that point some 75%
17:25was from enterprise because when you do
17:27something like that like the previous
17:29startup lesson we learned all your
17:31attention goes to what's giving you the
17:33most money and so that that really
17:36sucked because unless I wanted to build
17:37a catering business then you know I
17:39wasn't gonna get funding so we were in a
17:42pinch then and I had to raise a bridge
17:44round and wind down the catering
17:47business which was hugely unpopular
17:49because we were making lots of money but
17:51it wasn't my long-term vision the vision
17:55was that people don't have access to
17:56this home-cooked food and I wanted to
17:58crack it and figure it out and give it
18:00to everyone so we wound that down
18:04because it wasn't part of the long-term
18:06vision the third month so then we
18:09focused on this personalized dinner
18:10service I still today think that the
18:15power of personalization what Amazon
18:18brings to e-commerce and what Netflix
18:20and Spotify bring to movies and music
18:24that level of personalization has not
18:27taken off in food and just like Google
18:30with search the company that cracks it
18:32in food I think will be like the
18:34long-term winner and have all these
18:37learnings built on top of each other to
18:39where you build a long-term sustainable
18:41advantage so that's what we did with
18:43that personalized dinner service we took
18:45these chefs and and then we started
18:47using restaurants and caterers and we
18:51focused on the technology because that
18:53that's what that's the talent that we
18:55had in our headquarters we had engineers
18:57and product people so we focused on the
19:00tech to match to take we we allowed
19:04people to give us whatever taste they
19:06wanted so we ended up getting like
19:08thousands of picky eaters and people who
19:10like didn't eat nightshades and they
19:12were vegan but they still didn't like
19:14olives and lettuce and like crazy stuff
19:18what your tastes were I said I would
19:20feed you and so anyway that that model
19:23really stretched our technology and by
19:26doing the hard thing we learned if
19:28you're vegan and don't like lettuce what
19:29are you eating I know I don't know like
19:32lots of beans so you move the business
19:37model a little bit each time or yes and
19:41so one of the difficult things in doing
19:43that is taking the risk and bringing
19:45down your current business for hopefully
19:48future success and that I think a lot of
19:51people actually don't do that because
19:52it's very very scary they just try keep
19:55pushing the current model I'm trying to
19:57make it work so was it scary for you and
20:00like what was your thought process and
20:01like actually just saying no not going
20:03to do this enterprise catering anymore
20:04even though it's making tons of money
20:06right it was it was so scary
20:09um it was really scary and and actually
20:13some of our investors would like call me
20:16into their office and just use it as
20:18like me as a punching bag you know and
20:21like sit down at their reclaimed wood
20:23table and their kitchenette or something
20:25and and they would like I'd be sitting
20:28and it's stand-up and they'd be like and
20:30and every time there's new startups
20:32coming up the grass is always greener
20:33because the investors know all your
20:35problems and they don't know any of the
20:36other problems so anyway so they would
20:39be like this company mantri is starting
20:42and this company order ahead is starting
20:44and all these companies are starting and
20:46like what are you doing and it was it
20:48was much louder and much worse than that
20:51and and so but you know I have found I
20:57think that's what you mentioned earlier
20:58about the grit and determination I don't
21:00know if it's learned or what it is over
21:05so many years I have found that I cannot
21:08listen to anything there's nothing more
21:11loud than like my gut and it's just when
21:15you know something and you've been in it
21:18for three years or thousands of days you
21:21can't avoid it you know what you have to
21:23do other people think about you like 1%
21:25of the year and just in the one hour
21:28meeting and so I think early on we put a
21:32into investor meetings even into YC
21:34partner meetings into all these meetings
21:36and it can really throw you off your
21:38game for a few days you're like oh this
21:41one person didn't like my idea who am i
21:44and it's just something you have to get
21:47through and and I would always try to
21:51justify each direction with like with
21:55with logic and with market drawings and
21:58one book that really helped me was Blue
22:00Ocean Strategy it's my favorite business
22:02book to date and it talks about how
22:05companies broke through the noise in
22:08existing industries talks about
22:09Southwest Airlines yellowtail wine and
22:12some like really interesting companies
22:14and that no one thought would work so
22:16you should and it gives you a framework
22:18with which to think about your company
22:20and I would draw that framework and keep
22:22using it as my North Star in a previous
22:26talk and let me read this so I get it
22:27right you said something green
22:29insightful which is product market fit
22:30is not just an aha moment it's a
22:32summation of lots of broad experiments
22:34and micro learnings over many years can
22:37you briefly expand on that like a common
22:40mistake is for people when they look at
22:42product market fit is to just look at
22:43one metric and then if it moves in one
22:45direction then that's good so what did
22:48you look at the beginning and how did
22:49you visualize this summation of stuff
22:51yeah ultimately I think that product
22:56market fit is the the center of the Venn
22:59diagram of ability to grow on one side
23:04and retention on the other side and so
23:07if you look at our history um in the
23:09marketplace model we weren't able to
23:11grow because of the chef's we were
23:15supply constrained in the personalized
23:17dinner model we actually weren't able to
23:19grow really fast because of the
23:21customers the even though it was
23:23personalized the food wasn't better than
23:26the best takeout that you could order so
23:29if you want to change the world or
23:31change your industry you have to do
23:32something that is like materially better
23:34like iPhone level better than the market
23:38so people weren't racing to our doors so
23:41we didn't have that ability to grow our
23:43dinner kitten model has the ability to
23:46internally and externally from customer
23:48demand and it also has high retention so
23:52moving on to maybe more about
23:54determination so in the beginning at
23:57Stanford you were a bioengineering major
23:59yes so technical but not a coder
24:03how did you manage actually doing all of
24:05this without being technical yes hmm
24:09well initially um and I mean everyone is
24:14gonna use their skillsets and I think
24:16the one common theme is that in the
24:18first few months you need to you need to
24:21prove your concept you need to have an
24:23MVP you can do that with code you can do
24:25that with sales whatever so I I did not
24:28know how to code um I I learned a PHP
24:32but in both my businesses in the
24:34recruiting business and the chef
24:36business or the food business I have now
24:38I made initial sales without a website
24:43and I proved our concept in the first
24:45three months before any other kind of
24:47funding so with the recruiting business
24:49I did know like Photoshop and design and
24:52I taught myself all of that and loved it
24:54so I enjoyed that and I designed these
24:56like sales packages um that would like
24:59and I made up stuff I was like gold
25:01platinum whatever twenty thousand
25:03dollars and I would like to see if
25:04people would give it to me which is very
25:06bold as a college student um and I like
25:08how to mock up of a website that wasn't
25:10built yet and I took a semester off and
25:13tried and only did sales because that
25:16was my proof of concept and my parents
25:18said that only if I like got a sale
25:20could I not go work on Wall Street which
25:23it's a side note I didn't get a sale
25:26that semester and I'm eight I meant like
25:29maybe eighty or so people
25:31I'm through introductions and I went to
25:34go work at Morgan Stanley in 2008 and
25:37that horrible summer and I hated my life
25:40it was like equities trading and three
25:42weeks in I got a check in the mail for
25:46ten thousand dollars cuz it was a
25:48founder founding customer price from
25:51this like law firm and it was like the
25:54coolest day of my life it was revenue it
25:58and and it took me like you know seven
26:00to ten days to figure out how to quit
26:01the internship people were all like
26:04you'll get blacklisted you'll never get
26:06a job and I told the head of the program
26:10and he said you will always have a job
26:12here but you will never come back and I
26:15thought that I thought that was cleared
26:16at the time and now I fully understand
26:18it and it's because like once an
26:19entrepreneur always an entrepreneur in
26:21your heart in a way so anyways I think I
26:25think the quitting is hard it's a long
26:27story short but it's hard to avoid
26:29so around 2011 2014 you had a hard time
26:32raising money correct so how did you I
26:35mean it's three years how did you fund
26:37all of this and then also at the same
26:40time what did you spend your days doing
26:42it must have been really it's when you
26:45can't get money it's really distracting
26:46like that's a huge distraction so how
26:47did you focus on your business and keep
26:49yes so first of all over those three and
26:54a half years of finding product market
26:56fit our monthly burn was $40,000 on
26:59average that's pretty low that's not a
27:02fancy office that's not ten people we
27:05kept it to about four people and
27:06everyone had to be like co-founders
27:08style generalist because we were still
27:11iterating so if you make your burn 40k
27:14you know you can make your 1.5 million
27:16last lasts a while but we raised to
27:20bridge rounds during that time and there
27:23were some some investors who refused to
27:25invest some of them who like saw would
27:27listen to the next iteration and invest
27:29in me both of those bridges were like
27:31200 some K and one critical thing there
27:36was a time in 2013 when no one would
27:40and I was running out of all of my money
27:42and we had like one one payroll in the
27:47I think our bank was like $8,000 or
27:49something and that's when I did YC so I
27:53didn't do YC at the beginning of gobble
27:56I did YC three and a half years into the
27:59struggle when I was I didn't know I was
28:02about to figure it out everybody had
28:05lost faith and I'm the only one who had
28:08faith and the only money I could get was
28:11and PG and so I did YC and they said
28:15they would help me raise a series a like
28:17they would fund me for three more months
28:19and six months after that we figured out
28:23our fifteen minute one pan dinner kit so
28:26you Michigan employees during this hard
28:28time how did you keep them motivated to
28:31you know keep going that's a tough one
28:34um I think that there's a lot of
28:41turnover in the early days and even in
28:43like the later days after venture
28:45financing and you're learning how to
28:46hire execs but the employees that ended
28:51up lasting the longest were by referral
28:53and so there was some like shared values
28:55and shared trust there and I also really
28:59clued them into the hard times sometimes
29:01you think you're protecting people by
29:02not telling them but actually your
29:04closest employees especially when you're
29:06four to six if you bring them into the
29:08challenge and if they are challenge
29:10oriented they will stay with you but if
29:13you hide it then they're not really
29:15feeling that excitement and that
29:16challenge at what point you said that
29:19you got an acquisition off or one of
29:22your investors wanted you to just get
29:23acquired by the clothing startup
29:25clothing start absolutely yes I mean
29:27you're having a hard time in here's like
29:29potentially money in your bank account
29:30what was your thought process in just
29:33turning that down yeah um I've I've
29:37thought a lot about this right now even
29:39in our space there's a lot of
29:40consolidation in the food space in the
29:42meal kit space if you like see the news
29:44it's very popular drama in the news um
29:50it's I mean there's all these companies
29:53like Facebook or snapchat or this or
29:55that that I've turned down different
29:57offers over time and sometimes it's
29:59right sometimes it's wrong judged by
30:01society and I just see so much potential
30:05in gobble and once we early on it was
30:09just that early on I turned that
30:11clothing startup thing down in that
30:13product market fit time because this is
30:15what I want to work on and I had I have
30:17nothing to lose I didn't have kids or
30:19whatever and I I just didn't imagine a
30:21better life than working on working on a
30:23heart problem and now
30:25we've started like you know doubling or
30:27tripling year-on-year and so if someone
30:30were to acquire us now and we can't
30:32weather the storm of a bad meal kit
30:35market I think we're like leaving
30:37billions on the table speaking of
30:40competition there's been billions of
30:42dollars in venture funding going into
30:44competitors or so-called competitors
30:47like Reaper and plated and so forth I
30:50mean you're the original company what do
30:53you think about was like all that money
30:55is going over there but you're like I'm
30:57here surviving I'm growing fast you know
30:59what's really going in your mind yeah
31:04well you know we can look at the silver
31:07lining of it which is that necessity
31:10breeds invention and so by not having
31:12that much money we didn't get
31:14comfortable and we had to innovate and
31:16we had to have good numbers so I'm not
31:18saying that we should all starve our
31:19companies but because we were like
31:21somewhat cost starved we didn't I wasn't
31:25distracted by lots of fancy things and I
31:27just focused on making all the dollars
31:30count and doing something meaningful so
31:32you talk about mission but beyond that
31:34what actually really like how did you
31:37keep going over the 78 years like is it
31:39genetic like what what do you think it
31:41really is beyond just the mission Wow
31:44hmm man maybe it is some kind of like
31:52nature nurture thing if it's the mission
31:54is a big part of it but with regards to
31:57the grit and determination thing from in
32:01like early age I think I just my parents
32:05wanted me to go to this school this like
32:07all-girls school and I hated my current
32:10school I was bullied a lot and there was
32:12like like bad phrases and racist things
32:14on my locker and like bad stuff and I
32:18applied to this girl's school in
32:20kindergarten and I didn't get in
32:21and then in first grade and I didn't get
32:23in and in second grade and I didn't get
32:25in and you had to take this er B test
32:28and then like in those early grades
32:29they're asking you like what's a
32:30triangle or something right and I didn't
32:32get in so I was like what's going on and
32:34my parents weren't donating and there's
32:36all these other factors I didn't know
32:37and so I kept applying like third grade
32:40fourth grade fifth grade didn't get in
32:42and I remember one time my parents were
32:45like the test is coming up this is for
32:47your future you need to do this and I
32:49was just so mad I like I just remember
32:54being so defeated and so distraught and
32:56like I was letting them down and I
32:58didn't want to take the test I was like
32:59who needs the school like forget it it's
33:01stupid and I took the test and I still
33:05didn't get in um and finally in seventh
33:08grade I got into that school and it
33:11changed my life I used every resource
33:14they had I started new organizations
33:16I got funding from the principal of the
33:18school to like start a Model UN Society
33:20and like I saw it in a different way and
33:22I just I seized the entire opportunity
33:25when I was there because I knew how
33:26special it was and I worked so hard to
33:29get there and so somehow early on like
33:32that was one experience but there were
33:34experiences like that that I just
33:36learned that life is about hard work and
33:39it's about lead bullets and I'm always
33:41enamored by these real overnight
33:43successes I think the most overnight
33:46successes are like ten years in the
33:48there are some flukes that are like one
33:51year two year three years that the media
33:54celebrates in a disproportionate amount
33:56and I'm always very enamored by them but
34:00the only way that I know is like this
34:01lead bullets grit do not give up
34:04strategy you are a very ambitious third
34:07grader thank you I wish that we had
34:13known you back then we would just
34:14predict it all this in front of you all
34:15the way back in kindergarten that would
34:16have been great so you talk about
34:18obviously never quitting but are there
34:20do you think there are reasons to quit I
34:24I guess I like quit kind of on my first
34:28startup and on one of the iterations of
34:31gobble and the only reasons I have ever
34:33quit is because I think the what I was
34:38doing didn't have enough impact in in
34:42the broader world or fulfilment and for
34:45me and meaning and purpose for me I
34:49this question and those are the only
34:52reasons I have quit in the past I think
34:54though that said I think if if the
34:57environment evolves and you can't keep
35:00up with it and things are just waste
35:02surpassing you then then that would be a
35:05really like hard look in the mirror and
35:08I I would may need to quit in that in
35:10that instance so not getting comfortable
35:11and constantly iterating and being not
35:14dogmatic is important a good example of
35:16that is Netflix Netflix evolved to stay
35:19alive there are a lot of big titans of
35:21industry that fell along the way because
35:23they couldn't evolve so two more
35:27questions and then we'll take questions
35:28from the audience one is can you when
35:31you look back are there just like are
35:33the decisions that you made in the early
35:35days that you're thankful that you may
35:37that were really critical to your
35:38success success and if so what were they
35:41well I'll talk about two so one of them
35:45is that one of them is something a lot
35:48changed when we hired our executive chef
35:50Tomas Ricci and and it wasn't just
35:53because we hired a chef to make
35:56consistent food and good food and like
35:59safe food in a kitchen what we gained
36:02though was the ability to innovate in
36:05food and what I have learned is what I
36:10would suggest to an entrepreneur is that
36:12real entrepreneurship comes from diverse
36:14perspectives and from innovating at the
36:17edge of different industries it's really
36:19hard just to get ten homogeneous
36:20engineers in a room and like make
36:22something incredible
36:24you have to have other experts in like
36:26consumer or food or something whatever
36:29else is in your industry to really find
36:32those little insights so once so our
36:35success came from innovating and
36:37technology and personalization but a lot
36:40from innovating in food and doing that
36:43prep work and sending these food
36:45packages in a way that no other company
36:47sends them that's not trivial
36:49so making room for creativity in
36:53different areas of your business is
36:55important and we didn't have that
36:57creativity when the suppliers were just
36:59contractor chefs the second thing was
37:03I have to thank adora she is way too
37:06humble when I had no money and I did YC
37:11and I like swallowed my pride we were
37:14still doing that personalized dinner
37:15service and somehow like I got matched
37:18up with adora and we didn't even fit out
37:22by demo day like we raised 200k on demo
37:24day was nothing it wasn't the right
37:27timing we hadn't figured it out and that
37:30we had just hired our chef like maybe
37:32six weeks or four weeks before a demo
37:35day so I started working with him and
37:37innovating with him and focusing on our
37:38future and and meeting with adora at her
37:42office and anyways I came to her and I
37:46told her about this this meal kit idea
37:48this 15 minute prep kit back in 2014 and
37:52and she was she was like just so like
37:56scary to me and really badass and really
37:59like aggressive and she was like ooh
38:01Sh'ma and she was like if this is it
38:02you need a do it it's just like
38:04you need to do it now and I was like
38:05okay and she was like how fast can you
38:07do it and you kind of want to impress
38:08people something like I don't know like
38:10two weeks she's like great and she was
38:12like and so I mean she basically was
38:13like she's like she was like it was we
38:15had four weeks so she was just like it
38:17was in July and I remember because it
38:19was August first and she's like do it by
38:21August first I was like okay great and
38:24she probably like I don't even know she
38:26remembers all of that but that's what I
38:27thought of every single day for 30 days
38:30and I shut down that personalized dinner
38:32service and we were doing maybe like one
38:34and a half to two million and ARR but it
38:35wasn't going anywhere and the food
38:37wasn't different enough and when we had
38:38tested and are indeed these like prep
38:41kits where people cook it themselves and
38:42feel like a superhero that was magical
38:45in our in our testing and our customer
38:47visits so within 30 days we just rip the
38:52band-aid off shut down that business was
38:55the highest revenue making iteration
38:57that we had ever built with every
38:59iteration we made more revenue
39:00ultimately even though we shut it down
39:02and then on August third we launched
39:04this thing and I emailed adora this like
39:06long email up here the screenshots
39:07here's this and not like I was using her
39:10to hold myself accountable and I was
39:11like it's launched you know and and that
39:14was the best decision of our lives and
39:17need to execute and the other lesson is
39:18like finding people who are in your
39:20corner you need people who are in your
39:21corner and it's okay to not talk to the
39:23ones who aren't but finding people who
39:25are in your corner who you can use as an
39:27inspiration to motivate you is really
39:29critical for speed oh yeah one of the
39:32things I tell people just do it already
39:34you know exactly idea stop just stop
39:37meddling just do it okay so last
39:41question for me is 50 to 100 years from
39:44Kabul is gonna be even bigger it is
39:46today but what is what do you think it's
39:48gonna be Wow I you know in the 50 to 100
39:56year vision I actually want gobble to be
39:58let's call it the Disney of the home and
40:01I my thing with gobble is about creating
40:05magical experiences at home that are
40:08easy and fit into this busy life um for
40:11any for any kind of person like single
40:13parents hourly working you know affluent
40:16people I think there's I think that with
40:21all this technology and all this fast
40:23food we've over instrumented a lot of
40:25industries and I was missing that
40:27connection and I think at the end of the
40:29day when our lives are over all we care
40:32about are the moments with our loved
40:34ones and so if I can facilitate some of
40:36that whether it's with learning whether
40:38it's with dinner or food and I'll keep
40:41evolving with the environment I think
40:43that's a worthy cause that's interesting
40:47so it's go me more than just food yeah
40:49we're working on a few other things
40:50around like education and learning and
40:53things like that awesome
40:54cool all right so who has questions like
41:15you see them in progress and they really
41:17made progress but now the life I don't
41:22so what do you suggest what kind
41:24suggestion for you half of those people
41:25right or in that situation
41:27and now they're like yeah so I think the
41:35question is around that there are like
41:38environmental constraints and legal
41:40constraints like with regard to
41:41immigration and h-1b and things like
41:43that that prevent people from being
41:46where they want to be with their
41:47customer if you have to Newton full time
41:54but you have to live in another country
41:55is that what you're asking
42:15mm well I I know one of my good friends
42:20had a similar problem and these are very
42:23tactical things like they establish some
42:25like shell company and then one of the
42:27investors was a put-on as a board member
42:29and then that board member sponsored the
42:32sponsorship but you're really the CEO of
42:34the company and so there are like I
42:37think first of all getting that like
42:40h-1b visa is insane right and we had
42:43someone we have people who can't get
42:45that visa so gobble actually has an
42:46engineering team in India and in South
42:48Africa and like we're just waiting for
42:50the visas and it's been some people have
42:52been waiting for like 14 months and
42:54they're still working for us remotely so
42:56in those situations that's nuts and now
42:59there's very few loopholes but if you
43:01already are here sometimes there is some
43:04things you can do I think like YC has
43:06helped with some of that stuff if you're
43:07making revenue and you have an actual
43:09company going there's ways to go about
43:11it I would just talk with a lawyer
43:31yeah um interesting so we've done a lot
43:35like oh yeah sorry question is tell us
43:37about the pricing strategy for gobble
43:39and how our pricing strategy evolved
43:42pricing is a big part of product market
43:44fit so you know it has to be priced
43:47appropriately for your market initially
43:49we had different offerings at different
43:51prices on our marketplace in a if you're
43:56at a scrappy company the best tool for
43:58pricing experimentation is email because
44:02it's hard to put like different prices
44:04all over your website for different
44:06users so what I would do is email people
44:08and I have a zillion things in beta all
44:11the time so I'd email our existing
44:13customers and I'd say hey here's a beta
44:15on premium dinners or here's a beta on
44:18value meals or here's a beta on our wine
44:21program and I would I would first do all
44:24the research of the market and then send
44:25people like different clusters of people
44:28three different prices and in the early
44:29days I did it with like 20 people each
44:32and then now I do it like thousands of
44:34people each so um and in the early days
44:37it was a plain text email and I would
44:39say like would you and then sometimes to
44:41each individual person I would send
44:43three plans so I'd say do you want plan
44:44a B or C and so that you can send
44:49different groups different sets of three
44:53plans or you can send different groups
44:55different pricing for one product but I
44:57would you just basically you multiply
45:00the profit times how many people buy it
45:02and whichever one wins and most profit
45:07thank you my seeds really grow having a
45:12co-founder the question is that YC is
45:19very Pro having a co-founder and that I
45:21did it on my own for a while can I talk
45:23about that hmm when I started gobble I
45:28looked for a co-founder and I spent I I
45:31kind of just started it like I found
45:33chefs on Craigslist and I was delivering
45:35food in my car but I was dating
45:37co-founders that are now otherwise see
45:40founders at the time and no one at that
45:43time in that like three four month
45:45period was willing to quit their job and
45:48join me or was randomly as passionate
45:52about my idea as I was so it was a
45:55unique this was all very organic I
45:56didn't really think you know I must have
46:00a co-founder or I must be a solo
46:02co-founder I tried to find one and my
46:04priority was like leaping on this idea
46:07and so I didn't find one and I just went
46:09with it um long term I think it is hard
46:13very hard as a single founder right now
46:16our exec team operates kind of like as a
46:19as a hive mind and I share everything
46:21with them so after many many years now
46:23we have like a five person super team
46:25that's all very invested and kind of
46:28like a co-founding team but at scale in
46:31the early day is what I say for single
46:32founders is you kind of have like if
46:34you're swimming in the ocean it's kind
46:36of like a net buoy system so you have to
46:38find like three or six people that are
46:41like those orange buoys and you're
46:43swimming by yourself and you're super
46:44super tired and when you want to rest
46:45you like swim over to one of the buoys
46:47and you hug it and you like talk to them
46:49and they help you but then since you
46:51don't have a co-founder no one can be
46:53your rock right so next time you're like
46:54you know need to rest you swim over to
46:56another buoy and you hug that you know
46:58and you're kind of like you you
46:59basically crowdsource your co-founder
47:02from other founders and friends and you
47:03have to really find and in fact some of
47:05my closest friends were other single
47:08founders and so I had a group of like
47:10two or three single founders and we all
47:11like would constantly meet up for coffee
47:13or drinks after work and trade stories
47:15and help each other yes how's your life
47:20see you now versus when you started what
47:23were the lows what were the highs Wow or
47:27please I apologize so the question is
47:31how has your role as CEO change from
47:34beginning to what it is now
47:35must've been dramatic yes okay um in the
47:40beginning one of the highs is just that
47:42you're constantly innovating like that
47:45that 24/7 maker time is very precious to
47:50my contrast now my day is like full of
47:53meetings like meetings meetings meetings
47:55meetings and then dinners and so
47:56yesterday I get home at like 11:00 p.m.
47:58today we're starting at 8:00 a.m. and
48:00it's like really full and I have and I
48:02have to fight for strategic time and
48:04maker time and we still need that to
48:07like keep evolving right so I cherish
48:10that part of the early days obviously
48:12the lows are our when like nobody cares
48:16about you you barely have any customer
48:18is like I'm just sleeping at our office
48:21or laying on our couch and I remembered
48:23in some of the lows I just would put
48:25white paper all over and I'd like slay
48:27on the floor and it'd just be like a
48:29blank slate and I'd be like okay what's
48:31next come up with it and so those are
48:36the lows the highs now are it's it's
48:39really gratifying when people start to
48:42know you and you every time I meet a
48:45customer like in the wild it's it makes
48:47my day and when I get too far from the
48:50customer I actually noticed myself
48:51getting unhappy again I think if you
48:54care about the customer and that
48:55experience long-term all the money will
48:57come okay let's take two more questions
49:19negro so my question is how do you get
49:22that happening without pestering them
49:24you know like hey well how do you do
49:27that a good manner that's a great
49:33the question is in the early days you
49:36have your I think the question is this
49:38that you have your team that you're
49:39working with and your customers but
49:41there are other people that aren't on
49:43your team that help you and they're like
49:44mentors advisors friends how do you get
49:47those people to work with you without
49:49feeling like a pest or that you're
49:51pestering them I had a lot of this so
49:54this is a really good question um two
49:57things one I targeted the right advisors
50:01to help me and I would find out where
50:03they were speaking and and I would wait
50:05till everybody was done talking to them
50:08and be the last one to talk to the
50:10speaker because they would remember me
50:12and then I would walk them to their car
50:14because they were in a rush so again
50:17this is about like psychology and like
50:19what does what does a speaker need to do
50:20they talked to a hundred people you know
50:22they need to go if you carry their bags
50:25to their car you're helping them in a
50:27small little way and you're showing kind
50:29of some respect there that's how I found
50:32like Aaron Patzer from mint.com
50:34back in the day who was one of my early
50:36advisors and some other people that was
50:39a hack to finding the right mentors find
50:41out where they are and like wait and
50:43then follow up the other thing is I only
50:47asked people questions that was in their
50:49wheelhouse so I learned a lot about like
50:51what should I ask this person because
50:53when you spend time with someone who's
50:55like a mentor and let's say you ask me
50:57about like enterprise sales I don't know
51:00anything about I do a little bit but I
51:02don't know a lot about enterprise sales
51:04you know and so it's kind of it makes
51:05them feel bad and it's also a waste of
51:07your time and and and what I would do
51:11with people is I would bring I
51:13structured like a white piece of paper
51:14and three kind of thirds I guess and the
51:19top would be my progress like what have
51:22I done since I last saw you
51:23the next third would be what am i
51:27working on now and the last third would
51:29be one of my challenges
51:31and I was very organized about all the
51:34time that I asked from people and so
51:35they always saw progress and then they
51:37would see their advice like come back
51:39and I would save all my notes so early
51:41in the early days I met Reid Hoffman and
51:43there was this cafe called University
51:45cafe and I went to cafes that only had
51:48paper tablecloths and we would write all
51:50over the tablecloth and then I would
51:52like take even had coffee stains on it
51:54and stuff and I would like take it home
51:55and I still have this box of like those
51:58tablecloths that are like big butcher
52:00papers from like five six years ago and
52:03so it's just like I think about all
52:05those little things and about making
52:07time useful taking notes being prepared
52:10and meeting with the right people I
52:12think also and you mentioned this but I
52:15just want to pull it out as being very
52:17thoughtful the questions you ask and
52:19being very specific and instead of
52:20asking broad questions that could take
52:22hours to answer yeah more likely to get
52:25an answer as a result okay last question
52:27make it good go in the back oh my gosh
52:38thank you so much Wow great question the
53:00question is we talked about hacks with
53:03getting customers and what are the hacks
53:06around getting investors cuz I struggled
53:08with getting investors in the in the
53:09early days I think um as you observe all
53:14your friends everybody has lucky kind of
53:16or easier fundraising rounds and
53:18everyone has hard fundraising rounds so
53:21even if someone has it easy right now
53:23and you have it hard it's okay like it
53:25might be hard for them later and the
53:27stories are very up and down um how do
53:31you get investors Wow it's still tough
53:35for example even last year for our
53:38Series B I had a very difficult time
53:40raising money like it all looks
53:41fantastic and there's lots of news and
53:44videos but it like took every ounce of
53:47my being it was the hardest fundraising
53:49and it's because Amazon acquired Whole
53:52Foods and everyone is afraid of Amazon
53:54so they just thought Amazon's gonna do
53:56gobble and also because blue apron went
53:59public and they don't have a lot of
54:00defense ability and there's lots of
54:02companies that are repackaging groceries
54:04so their stock price went down and that
54:07meant that gobble wasn't going to work
54:08so last year was really really hard what
54:13advice do I have I think that oh here's
54:19one good piece of advice a lot of it is
54:21grit and a lot of it is testing and then
54:23watching what resonates with people and
54:25perfecting your pitch and it's weird to
54:27practice in front of friends but you
54:29should really really do it and have
54:30everything like everyone help you with
54:32your deck and your pitch and that's
54:35that's important but the one advice I
54:37have and this may not be true for
54:39everyone but some founders that are like
54:41Shire or not as confident when they get
54:46to their last slide they say even if and
54:50they say like even if you know the world
54:54ends I will still get you your money
54:55back and investors do not care about
54:59getting their money back that is not
55:01sexy to them you shouldn't say that
55:03founders are kind of like hedging
55:06against themselves and saying don't
55:07worry I'll still protect your money but
55:09you need to uplevel that when you go
55:11talk to investors and not say even if
55:13you need to say you need to say that we
55:16have the potential to be the next big X
55:19like we have the potential to be a ten
55:21billion dollar business in three years
55:24and like pump yourself up like stretch
55:27power pose but you have to end on that
55:30really big high note very strong and
55:34that's that's my piece of advice all
55:38right thank you so much huge well thank
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