00:00The worldview that we absorb as
we grow up is a great worldview
00:05for material purposes. But it's
not so good for spiritual
00:10purposes. So we need to actively
generate or discover a different
00:18worldview. If we are interested
in this self actualization that
00:32I'd like to welcome to the show,
Pablo Sender, How you doing
00:35I'm doing well. How are you
doing?
00:37I'm doing very good, my friend.
Thank you so much for coming on
00:40the show. I'm really excited to
talk to you. Anytime I hear of a
00:43new spiritual practice or
teachings that I haven't heard
00:47before. I love doing deep dive
to see the nuggets of gold that
00:52I can mine from those teachings.
And we are definitely going to
00:55be talking about a new, a new
kind of new, it's been around
01:00forever, but new to me feel the
theological, I could feel
01:05philosophical, the the
esophageal society or theists or
01:09theosophy, I can't say please
forgive me, but you, not the
01:15Even our members have difficulty
sometimes.
01:19But before we get started, my
first question to you is, how
01:23did you begin your spiritual
journey?
01:24Um, I guess I, it began when I
was a child, really, because I
01:34would wake up and feel that life
was empty, I couldn't understand
01:39why I wake up in that way. So I
was about a turn nine. So I
01:45started reading some books that
my dad had in his library, on
01:51Atlantis and Egypt, and UFOs.
And I guess that began to show
01:59me that there were other things
in life that you don't normally
02:04hear about. And then as I grew
up, I was always interested in
02:09philosophy. I read some Western
philosophers, and I read some of
02:15New Age literature, but never
found something completely
02:21satisfying. So when I was about
20, I thought that I wanted to
02:29learn how to meditate. And I
tried within some books, and I
02:36needed more guidance. So talking
to my mom, who was going to
02:41yoga, hurt teacher was a TS
member. So she knew about TS
02:47stands for Theosophical Society.
So she knew about this
02:51organization, but she had never
been there. So talking to her,
02:55she said, Well, I know about
this organization, let's go on.
02:58Maybe they are teaching how to
meditate. So she told me they
03:02are and they were giving a class
on meditation at the time. And
03:07that's how I came across the
Theosophical Society. I was at
03:11that time in college doing my,
my grad, I'm a microbiologist.
03:19And I was really attracted to
the idea that theosophy proposes
03:23of combining religion,
philosophy and science. So
03:27that's how I found the path that
I feel, you know, it's, it has
03:32been great in my life.
03:35So can you talk a little bit
about what the theological,
03:37theological, dammit. The TS
society is?
03:44Yes, the TS has three objects or
three goals. The first one is to
03:53try to form in in the
organization, a nucleus of what
04:00they call the in the 19th
century universal brotherhood,
04:04without any distinction of race,
sex, caste, creed, or color. The
04:11idea was that, for humanity to
be able to live in a in a
04:18healthy way, we need to generate
a sense of kinship, brotherhood
04:25and sisterhood, tolerance, and
really encourage loving
04:32relationship with respect to all
differences. So that's the first
04:38aim and the society has been,
especially at the beginning, it
04:43was attacked, often because it
normally would break some
04:51barriers that were part of the
culture of the place like in
04:54India, people from different
castes would come together and
04:58eat together and was not
accepted. In other places,
05:04similar, similar situations. But
I think eventually, many people
05:10today recognize that that's the
way to go. Then there is a
05:14second object that encourages
the comparative study of
05:19religion, philosophy and
science. The idea is that in
05:22order to understand life in a
deeper way, we need to look at
05:27it from all the different
avenues of knowledge that
05:30humanity has developed. Because
each Avenue has its strengths
05:35and its weaknesses. So there is
room for a scientific point of
05:39view. But we don't need to be
limited to the material realm
05:44that science, researches, there
is room for a philosophical
05:51approach to humanity, and to
life unto ourselves. But without
05:56being limited to this being just
an intellectual speculation. So
06:01there is room also for a
spiritual or religious approach,
06:05in which we have these spiritual
aspirations, but without being
06:11limited by a particular dogma or
theology. So that's the idea of
06:16the second aim. And the third
one is about promoting or
06:21encouraging the study of the the
hidden laws in life that are
06:30unexplained by science, like the
Theosophical Society was the
06:35first one in in the West, in
bringing out the idea of karma.
06:40And, you know, talking about
what in the East they know, as
06:45chakras, et cetera, because part
of the idea of the Theosophical
06:50Society was to bring up this
hidden aspect of life and of
06:54human beings, which are
important to understand our
06:59place in life and how we can
search for for, you know,
07:05however, you you visualize it in
law, enlightenment, or
07:08fulfillment or happiness, but
from a deeper point of view. So
07:13those are the three objects or
aims of the Theosophical
07:17Society, which are framed in
what we call freedom of thought,
07:22which is an official
declaration, let's say, by the
07:27General Counsel of the society
that says that all members have
07:32to respect the freedom of
thought of other people, and
07:36there is no discrimination, you
know, or no, no personal has to
07:42hold any particular idea,
whether philosophical or
07:45otherwise, to be a member of the
society. So that's more or less
07:49the general structure of the
organization.
07:53So I'd love to hear your
thoughts about how science is
07:58seems to be, in recent years
specifically, is starting to
08:03meet spiritual spirituality in a
very profound way with quantum
08:08physics and quantum mechanics.
And it's starting to catch up to
08:12ideas that have been around for
1000s of years in spiritual
08:16texts. How does How do you? How
do you like view that and? And
08:21where do you think this is all
going as far as science and
08:24spirituality meeting?
08:25Yeah, I think it's very
important that, that this
08:29happens. As I said, the,
actually the Theosophical
08:34Society was the first
organization at least in the
08:38West, in modern times, to
actually research the interface
08:43between science and
spirituality. And actually one
08:46of the foundational books that
one of the founders of the
08:49Theosophical Society wrote, The
subtitle is a science, a
08:54synthesis of science, and
religion and philosophy. And she
08:58contrasts quite a bit, science
and spirituality there. And I
09:04think it took quite a while. But
gradually, some scientists are
09:11beginning to try to look at life
in this more, let's say holistic
09:17way. And I I make emphases on
some scientists because I think
09:25the science as a discipline, is
still quite far from embracing
09:33something more spiritual.
Normally, we see attempts in
09:37individual scientists, many of
them are ostracized, because of
09:42their attempts, like Rupert
Sheldrake, for example, who was
09:46one of the first ones I guess,
in in doing this very
09:49explicitly, but more and more
individual scientists begin to
09:57to see that this is a an
interesting field of, of
10:01research. And since science
cannot define consciousness, I
10:08mean, there is a definition, but
not the explanation of how
10:11consciousness comes about.
beyond what we can see in the
10:16brain. There are some scientists
that are turning to more
10:20philosophical or spiritual ways
of explaining what consciousness
10:25is. And as you mentioned, the
field of quantum physics
10:30provides some avenues to try and
to try to explain consciousness
10:36in ways that are not so much
material. So I think it's
10:41hopeful what is happening. But
the problem with science and I
10:46have a PhD in molecular biology,
I, I spent half of my life in a
10:52lab because I started with
science in high school. And the
10:57problem with science is that for
something to be accepted as
11:01scientific, you need to devise
an experiment that can measure
11:06that principle that you want to
propose. So it's, it's quite
11:12difficult to measure to devise
means to capture that which is
11:19not physical, because we are
using physical means. So quantum
11:23physics may be a way of entering
into that realm. But even
11:29quantum physics, in many aspects
is regarded as a philosophy or
11:33not as a science. Scientists
know because you can do certain
11:39experiments to see if if what
these theories say are true.
11:44It's very just fascinating
what's what's happening and
11:46where it's all going. I have
heard us speak of the insightful
11:51mind, can you dive into that a
little bit?
11:54Yes, in the Theosophical view,
there is far more to the human
12:01psyche, that what we know by
means of regular psychology, for
12:07example, and I mean regular
because again, in psychology,
12:11too, there are new lines of work
and theory that are getting
12:17closer to the spiritual, but our
normal conception at the
12:21psychological level of what a
human being is, is far more
12:26limited than the philosophical
view. And similarly with
12:30science, which talks about the
brain. And the idea is that
12:35besides this kind of mind, which
uses thought as the main
12:43cognitive tool, what we are
doing now is using thoughts and
12:47words to communicate. Besides
this, there is a deeper aspect
12:53of our minds, which can perceive
and understand things that
13:00thought is not necessarily able
to those, we see this in
13:06mistakes from all religions,
when we see even in our western
13:12tradition, see Plotinus for
example, one of the main
13:17characters in the Neoplatonic
philosophy which influenced
13:22quite a bit early Christianity
Plotinus was very rational, they
13:27would follow the teachings of
Plato and Pythagoras, but he
13:32would always say there is a
religion of, of life of human
13:37beings that escapes the level of
thought and logic. And in
13:44general, in our culture, we
think, okay, if there is a run
13:49like that, it is irrational. It
is something that maybe
13:53miraculous but it's sovereign,
supernatural, it doesn't follow
13:58the laws of nature or logic. But
the the idea in the Theosophical
14:04view, which coincides with many
mistakes is that there is a
14:08higher kind of intelligence that
can grasp realities, beyond the
14:13processes of thought and logic,
and then you can present them in
14:17a logical way using your
thoughts, but the perception is
14:22beyond the that kind of
cognition. And the importance of
14:27this is that this is what brings
to a person, a sense of the
14:33reality of the spiritual,
because by mere logic, how are
14:39we going to believe that
anything exists beyond what the
14:43senses bring? We can by logic,
because thought is based on the
14:49senses. But when these higher
mind is accessed, then we have
14:57real experiences, not
imagination. When we have real,
15:03insights realizations, that,
that there is something more,
15:08and that changes how we live.
15:11So then what is the lower mind?
15:14The lower mind will be the mind
that we normally use, by means
15:19so far thinking, et cetera,
which lower only in terms of
15:25philosophical categories, not
lower in the sense that is, that
15:29is not useful. The lower mind is
the one that we use for everyday
15:35life. The problem is that if we
are limited to that, then there
15:42is a whole aspect of the of life
and the cosmos that escapes us.
15:47Most spiritual traditions have
different practices for us to
15:53start awakening these other
higher mind, which is what
15:59brings the person in touch with
those more spiritual realities,
16:05motivations, feelings, thoughts,
etc.
16:09So it's kind of like connecting
to your higher self in many
16:12ways. Yes, yes, yes, we can put
it that in that way. So what are
16:18the stages? In the consciousness
of our mind, I've heard you
16:24Yes, there are many stages, I
mean, all classifications are
16:29arbitrary. So there are many
ways of describing anything. But
16:34one of the descriptions we find
in theosophical literature that
16:38I find quite useful, is that
there are different levels of
16:44consciousness that we can see in
our daily life. One of them is
16:49the mind that is being driven
basically, by our emotions or
16:55desires. We see this happens a
lot in let's say, for example,
17:01politics, universities, see that
many times people support
17:07certain things, not because they
have thought out policies and
17:12the effects of the policies and
the causes of that, but rather,
17:16because they feel first in a
certain way. And then they use
17:20their minds to justify how they
feel. And therefore, though
17:25those the positions of many
people are not based on facts or
17:30rational discourse, they are
based on feelings. This happens
17:34in religion, the this happens in
relationships with other people.
17:39So that's the level that we
would call the desire mind, the
17:44level where the mind is a
vehicle for our desires, fear,
17:50fears, wishes, etc. Now, there
is a more rational, state of
17:57consciousness more rational, I
mean, that has its own
18:00rationality and intelligence,
but more rational in the typical
18:05definition of what rationality
is, that would be the mind that
18:10tries to look at facts,
independently of how we feel
18:15about those facts. And that's
when the lower mind, let's say,
18:19is working at its best. So we
look rationally we look at the
18:23facts, we try to connect the
facts in the best possible way
18:26understand that. And that is a
mind that is, I think, in
18:31general, a better guide than in
mind that is just an expression
18:36of the desires. This doesn't
mean that desires are wrong,
18:40it's just that desires and
emotions are giving us some
18:46input about the world, the
person and relationship, but
18:51then the mind has, ideally has
to work with that and try to
18:56understand those emotions for
example. Now, beyond that, there
19:00is the mind that is aspiring to
something beyond it, because we
19:05see that sometimes the
intellect, can can get closed in
19:12it in its own world and reject
anything that the intellect
19:17cannot verify or perceive. So,
there is what we could call the
19:22aspiring mind the mind that is
trying to see if there is
19:26something more and that aspiring
mind is like a bridge between
19:31that higher mind that we
described earlier and the more
19:36concrete mind. So the aspiring
mind is perhaps a that that mind
19:41that is trying to search for
more trying to see, to challenge
19:47the perceptions that come
through our senses trying to
19:51aspire to something different.
And as we nourish that one, then
19:56we start getting in touch with
that higher mind Which, you
20:01know, from the point of view of
the law of the lower mind or the
20:05concrete mind, competition makes
sense, because you can maximize
20:09your profits by competing, the
higher mind begins to take into
20:15account other things that are
connected more to the value of
20:20human relationships, of
cooperation, of love, of a
20:26healthy relationship. So all
those are things that are, are
20:32that are important for the
higher mind, not for the lower
20:35mind. So, we are all in touch to
some degree with all these
20:39levels. But we can nourish those
that, you know, that are higher
20:46in this philosophical category,
because at least we believe
20:51that's what will bring in better
life for everybody, and we can
20:55still be successful. But you
seen more the higher mind and
21:04Now, we've been talking about
the mind a lot, can you talk
21:06about the power of our thoughts?
Because it's something that we
21:10all we're all pretty brutal with
ourselves, in that mind. So can
21:14you talk a bit about the power
of our thoughts and what we can
21:16do to hopefully help better our
lives with our thoughts?
21:20Yeah, absolutely. I think many
traditions, talk about the fact
21:27that we are, we become basically
what we think about, not in a
21:33magical way, sometimes in the
new age, this is postulated,
21:37like in a magical way. But this
is a very, if you think about
21:43it, a very obvious, you know,
conclusion, the fact that we are
21:48what we think and the importance
of thought, even in
21:53Christianity, for example, when
you see the Bible that Jesus
21:57says, A sin is not only in the
art, but in thinking about
22:02committing the art, you know, if
you divide that from the
22:07connotations of what sane is,
etc. What he's saying there is
22:13that, if you keep thinking on
something, eventually, you will
22:19start being have the tendency to
act in that way. Because the way
22:25we think, begins to generate a
certain worldview, and begins to
22:30prepare us for a certain kind of
action, that eventually we are
22:35going to enact externally. So
the idea is that we, when we
22:42start thinking, in terms of, in
more holistic terms, not only
22:50our action changes, but also how
we perceive life, you see people
22:56who are very competitive, let's
say, they will tend to interpret
23:01the whole world and all
relationships in a transactional
23:05way. This is only natural,
because we the way we think
23:10shapes our perception. So if you
start thinking in other terms,
23:14you will start perceiving life
in a different way. We can talk
23:19in more esoteric ways about
this, there is the idea of what
23:23we can call the aura. The aura
is supposed to be some, the
23:29means of perception, just as we
have a physical body, we have an
23:33emotional body that is part of
the euro, that is a the means of
23:39perception of the emotional
aspect of life. And similarly, a
23:44mental body, which is the means
of perception on the mental
23:47level. And the idea is that all
our thoughts, let's say taint
23:53the way in which our emotional
and mental bodies work. So it's
23:58like looking with glasses. So if
we have thoughts that tend to be
24:04benevolent about others and
about ourselves that tend to be
24:09cooperative, that tend to be you
know, all these kinds of things,
24:13then that's how we are going to
perceive ourselves and others.
24:16We can't be, you know,
judgmental with others without
24:21being judgmental to ourselves,
because we have the same mind
24:25for both things. So one of the
main, or fundamental practices
24:31in the Theosophical tradition
that is proposed to people is to
24:35begin to pay attention to how we
think how we interpret things,
24:40and to train our minds to choose
the kind of thoughts that we are
24:45going to hold. And that when we
go into a direction that we feel
24:52is unhealthy to develop the
ability to say, I don't want to
24:56go in that direction. Normally,
we don't Have any means, you
25:00know, we worry, we think ill of
something that a person may do.
25:07And we need to understand
normally we don't have means to
25:11know what the reality will be.
And then we can say, I'm not
25:16going to go there before I have
to face the situation or the
25:20person. So let us stop the mind
and focus on something else. And
25:26that's a skill, like anything
else is a skill, we need to
25:29learn to be the masters of our
thoughts, and not the opposite
25:34to be led by, by thoughts and
fears, etc.
25:38So can we create a reality?
25:42Well, we can create a reality
psychologically, we are
25:46constantly doing that we are
constantly interpreting life in
25:51different ways, we see two
siblings in the same family can
25:55have a completely different
experience of how their parents
25:59are or how their lives are. We
see in daily life, that things
26:05that bother a person, don't
bother the other one, we are, we
26:09do create the reality in the
essence of how we perceive
26:13reality. And, and that's very,
very objective in the sense that
26:20it does produce a completely
different experience of life,
26:25just by means of our our
interpretation, you know, you go
26:29to the theater with high
expectations, because everybody
26:33says, this is a great movie. And
then chances are, you are going
26:36to be disappointed. If you would
have gone without expectations,
26:41many times you would, would
enjoy the movie more. So you see
26:44how just the mental image
changes the experience. Now, the
26:49idea of changing external
objective reality. In general, I
26:55would say that in the
Theosophical tradition, the view
26:58tends to be an I say, tends to
be an I speak in this way,
27:03because there is freedom of
thought in society. So I'm
27:08giving you you know, my take of
my my study, work tends to be
27:14that this idea in the new age
that we just think about
27:18something and that will
immediately manifest and is kind
27:22of overblown is a more an overly
simplistic interpretation of
27:28certain laws in in life. It's
evident that we can just turn
27:35physical reality, because with
our thoughts, but there are
27:41there is the possibility of
doing that. By highly developed
27:47people we know, yogi's, that can
precipitate manifest material,
27:52like certain things, blocky, one
of the founders of the
27:56Theosophical Society did that in
front of people many times
28:01because one of her strategies to
challenge the materialistic view
28:06of science at the time. She had
been trained in Tibet for many
28:11years, etc. And she had this
power. So she would, for
28:16example, in India, call people
in the government of the
28:21colonial government in India,
and do these demonstrations and
28:25say, I want you to explain in a
scientific way, how am I able to
28:30do this? And then she would say,
this shows that science doesn't
28:36know everything about the
cosmos, and that there is room
28:39for a lot of things that science
doesn't understand. So that was
28:43her strategy. But anyway, the
point is that highly skilled
28:48people can even produce certain
things physically, I'm gonna ask
28:54you would explain the mechanism.
This is not a miracle. This is
28:57all using laws of nature, which
most of which science doesn't
29:03know, yet. But for most people,
and thankfully, so most people
29:10don't have the power to shape
the physical reality in that
29:14way. Because if they do, they
did, the world would be far more
29:20of a chaos than it is the grid.
Now, there is one more aspect to
29:26keep in mind and that is the
what we call karma. And that is
29:31that our present thoughts will
generate a different objective
29:37reality. In our next
incarnation. Again, here if you
29:41had said the theory of
reincarnation, the idea is that
29:47all our thoughts on our desires
are kind of designing where we
29:54are going to be born in our next
incarnation in what circles
29:59stances, and therefore they are
right now creating our next
30:05experience. And it happens many
times that people may wish to
30:12have power to have to be, you
know, to be influential to have
30:16power to be the prescient of
something. And they are their
30:20strong thoughts and desires may
or may not be enough to produce
30:25that in this lifetime, maybe
they don't have enough, or the
30:29circumstances are not right. But
that will lead them in a, in a
30:34future life to be born in
circumstances where they can
30:38actually get that, they probably
means that if the person is not
30:42able, you know, we may want to
be a precedent of anything or
30:46organization or country,
whatever. And eventually, karma
30:51will bring us to that. But if we
are not able, we are just going
30:56to mess up, and that will
produce suffering, and that will
30:59produce difficulties, and that
will produce karmic
31:03difficulties. And that's how we
learn as a soul. To wish for the
31:10right things, you know, the
saying God punishes people by
31:14granting them their desires. And
so anyway, all these things are
31:19really complex. But what I want
to point out is that our
31:23thoughts are actually creating a
different objective reality, but
31:29mostly for our future
experiences.
31:33Now, how do we actualize our
potential?
31:39In some approach, I mean, there
are many ways and all spiritual
31:45traditions, propose a particular
way. And I, in the Theosophical,
31:52society, we value all of them.
Now, it's important that there
31:56there are different ways because
we are all different. Some
31:59people are quite intellectual,
and rational, and more
32:04devotional approaches, so on,
don't give them anything, or the
32:09opposite. Some people may be
very devotional and more
32:13intellectual approaches aren't,
are not inspiring for them.
32:17Other people may be more
practical, and they want to,
32:22they are a spiritual life is
about doing and giving and
32:26helping, et cetera. So it's
great that there are all
32:29different kinds of approaches, I
think, what is often in the
32:35philosophical tradition, there
is something that is offered,
32:38that is this idea of three main
areas of our lives, that we can
32:43start working on. One is the
study of the study to understand
32:50life and human beings better the
study of spiritual literature,
32:58also philosophical and even
scientific, A, to the extent
33:03that that helps us understand
ourselves and life. And the
33:08study is important, because it
begins to give you a different
33:13view, that perhaps you would not
have come to by your own
33:19thinking, you know, for example,
this idea that many traditions
33:22talk about karma, this law of
causes and effect that says
33:27that, you know, whatever we do,
we are generating down the, you
33:33know, in time, we are generating
certain effects that we have to
33:36deal with. And therefore, we can
think of what we do now, with in
33:44a wider or broader perspective.
So, you know, studying that and
33:51beginning to reflect on it and
look, trying to look at your
33:55life, etc, you, you begin to
have a different view of life.
34:01The lifestyle, the worldview
that we absorb, as we grow up is
34:06a great worldview for material
purposes. But it's not so good
34:11for spiritual purposes. So we
need to actively generate or
34:19discover a different worldview,
if we are interested in this
34:23self actualization that you
said. So this study is
34:26important. But it's not only
intellectual study and person we
34:31have many scholars that are
experts in what the Buddha said
34:35or Jesus said, and they are
neither the Buddha or not Jesus.
34:40They they in all the knowledge
that we incorporate has to be
34:45assimilated, and for that
meditation is important. So the
34:49study and the meditation by
which you try to access that
34:55higher mind, so that you begin
to perceive the reality of it.
35:00As themes, and not just as as
intellectual knowledge, that is
35:04also important. And the third,
let's say practice that is
35:10recommended is service of
whatever kind service not
35:15necessarily limited to the
physical giving food to the
35:19hungry or things like that. But
surveys in the sense of begin to
35:25be interested in, in the welfare
of everybody in, in people's
35:32happiness in trying to be a
beneficent force in the world.
35:39Because that is an essential
part of spiritual growth, as
35:43meditation and study may be very
self centered, and that self
35:48centeredness is a barrier to
discover our higher nature. So
35:53study meditation and service are
normally recommended, as
35:59practices that will help us
produce the self actualization.
36:05Now, what is The Secret
Doctrine?
36:09The Secret Doctrine is a book
that blocky Helena Blavatsky
36:14wrote, as I mentioned, she was
one of the founders of the
36:18Theosophical Society. And what
she claimed in this book, she
36:24said, what I'm doing here is
translating some stanzas from a
36:31very old book that is kept by
her teachers that she met in
36:39Tibet. And she says, this book
is not public is not publicly
36:45available, they use this book to
train, they are disciples, let's
36:49say. And they allowed me to
translate some of these dancers
36:54and publish them, only a few of
them, relatively speaking. I
36:58mean, she, she published, seven
stances that they have several
37:03verses. And she said, there are
like 60. And what this book is a
37:11two volume book that describes
the the beginning and
37:18development of the cosmos in the
first book, and in the second
37:23book, the beginning and
development of humanity on this
37:27planet. And the way that these
dancers described, this is a way
37:32that is not only from a physical
point of view, but it's also
37:39from a spiritual point of view,
from a psychic point of view is
37:43it tries to encompass all the
levels in the cosmos, you know,
37:49spiritual and intellectual, and
moral and psychic and physical.
37:55So it's a quite complex book to
read. I just finished the book
38:02that will be published next
month, that is called
38:06approaching the secret dog tree,
where I work on how to study
38:12this book, and the main, the
main topics, and then some
38:17practical practices based on
these teachings. And the book is
38:23fascinating, but it's not easy
to study by on your own, and
38:29basically gives you a different
view of life, the purpose of
38:33life, the Constitution of the
cosmos, and human beings and,
38:37and the journey, why we are
alive and where we are going. So
38:41that's more or less what she
tried to cover there. And she
38:44called it The Secret Doctrine,
because it was based on these
38:48stances that she claim her
teachers had, and they are
38:52secret. So that's why she called
it in that way.
38:56It's good marketing to for that
matter.
38:58Yes it is. The book was sold far
before she could even publish
39:04it. And he has been in print
ever since that there are, you
39:10know, scholars in in
esotericism. They regard The
39:14Secret Doctrine as the most
influential book in esotericism.
39:21And it's fascinating. My final
question is, how can we expand
39:28our consciousness and awaken in
this life as we keep coming back
39:32and back to learn lessons as a
reincarnated reincarnated soul,
39:36but is there any tips that you
have for us to to expand our
39:41consciousness now and awaken
now? So we might not have to
39:45come back the next time?
39:46Yeah. Yes, besides those general
practices of study meditation
39:52and service, there are there are
things in in you know, there are
39:58many practices that We can use
many of them, I have a class
40:05that I have been given for about
10 years, weekly class that is
40:13based on these, the practical
aspect of theosophical
40:18literature. And I give my
students an exercise every week
40:24to, you know, on different
aspects of their spiritual life.
40:30And so there is a lot that can
be done. In particular, with the
40:35idea of expanding our
consciousness. One of the main
40:40problems that we have is that
our body and our senses are like
40:46an anchor for our consciousness,
we perceive we we normally
40:52perceive, only through the
brain, and the senses are mostly
40:57we have other perceptions, what
we call God, feelings, and
41:01intuitions and inspirations.
They come from other aspects of
41:05our nature, but for the most
part we perceive through the
41:08body. And that keeps our
awareness confined. If you study
41:14the experiences of mistakes, in
many traditions, the Christian
41:19tradition or the Hindu or or Tao
is some or of course, Buddhism,
41:24and even Native Americans. All
their great mystics have, at
41:30some point, the experience that
they that their consciousness is
41:37interpenetrating, everything
they feel as being inside a tree
41:43inside a bird that is flying by
in the very ground, as well as
41:48within their bodies. And these
are common experiences of people
41:52that never met. And this
happened throughout 1000s of
41:57years if we are going to believe
what we read in the Vedas and
42:01these very old scriptures. So
what this indicates is that in
42:06all our consciousness, our
consciousnesses, let's say, in
42:11each of us, there is the
possibility of a perception that
42:16transcends the body, the use of
this particular brain and these
42:20particular senses, and we can
feel ourselves as being far
42:26beyond the physical body. But
the habit of perceiving only
42:31through the physical body is an
essential limitation. So part of
42:38the practices to expand our
consciousness, besides the the
42:45necessity to learn about our
other aspects, to learn about
42:49our spiritual nature, etc, one
practice we can do is to try to
42:57have the sense of being you
know, we always feel we are
43:03inside the body, well try to
feel the opposite, the bodies
43:08inside you, you are a sphere of
consciousness. Because a sphere
43:13of consciousness, really the
bodies inside us, we are in the
43:17whole aura, and we can expand
that aura. And if in meditation,
43:22we can perceive at the level of
these higher bodies, this is
43:26exactly what we perceive, we
perceive we are this sphere of
43:29consciousness, and the bodies
within. So without necessarily
43:35having to have a psychic
experience of the type that I
43:39just mentioned. It is a good
practice. For example, if you
43:43are walking on a park, try not
to feel that you are within the
43:46body, try to expand your sense
of presence, we do have a sense
43:51of, you know what we call my
personal space, we have like a
43:55sense that I begin in a certain
place. And if you come too
43:59close, you're invading my
personal space. So use that
44:03sense of personal space and try
to extend it and try to feel
44:07that your presence is this in
this sphere. And then when you
44:14work, as I said, feel that you
are far beyond the physical
44:17body. In meditation, there are
techniques in which you can
44:21visualize like a bubble around
your body and feel your presence
44:26there and then you can expand
your bubble more and feel your
44:29presence there. And all of these
produces a certain let's call it
44:35flexibility in our
consciousness, by means of which
44:39we really start having a sense
that, that the body is only a
44:45very small part of ourselves.
And typical feelings that come
44:51with that is a feeling of
lightness and expansion and
44:56freedom. The feeling of freedom
is quite character. Ristic of
45:01beginning to perceive beyond the
physical body. So, you know,
45:06just to mention one particular
practice this, this practice is
45:10quite effective. I have an app
that, you know chimes every
45:17hour, and then I stopped for a
few seconds. And I tried to have
45:22the sense of expansion. This is
something that I have been
45:26working for quite a bit. And it
is amazing how you know, you can
45:32really feel an expansion of your
being of who you are.
45:37Fair enough. Now, I'm going to
ask you a few questions, as all
45:41of my guests can a quick kind of
rapid fire. What is your
45:45definition of living a good
life?
45:48Living the life that is not only
about me, but is about all of
45:54us, because ultimately speaking,
we are one.
45:58What is your definition of God?
46:01God, is that the sacredness that
is in life, I don't believe that
46:08God is an entity, but God is the
sacredness that is in everything
46:13that exists in the cosmos.
46:16And what is the ultimate purpose
of life?
46:19The ultimate purpose of life is
to realize our divine nature,
46:23that we are not this small,
limited person, but that we are
46:29a divine divine consciousness,
and we are using this limited
46:35person to express ourselves on
the physical plane.
46:39And where can people find out
more about you and the work that
46:44I guess the the best place would
be on my YouTube YouTube page,
46:50because there are many talks
there if you're interested in
46:53these concepts. So Pablo, send
their channel, you can find it
46:58there. I have also a website
with some articles that I that I
47:03written and a couple of books.
And then I work in education for
47:09the Theosophical Society in
America. So I give weekly
47:14classes online. So if you want
to participate live, search for
47:19the website of the Theosophical
Society in America, and you will
47:23Pablo I want to thank you again,
so much for coming on the show.
47:26It's been a pleasure talking to
you. I mean, we can talk for
47:28hours about these concepts. It's
we just barely scratched the
47:31surface of the meaning of life.
But I appreciate you coming on
47:36the show and for all the work
you're doing to help awaken
47:39souls around the world, my
friend, so thank you so much.
47:42Yeah, thank you. And I really
enjoyed having this
47:46conversation. It's evident that
you know, by your questions that
47:51you are serious and intelligent,
and I really enjoyed this kind
47:57I appreciate you my friend.
Thank you.
48:01Thanks for watching. Click on
one of the videos below to
48:03continue your journey and don't
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