ICM Roundtable — Pricing & Money
Kai Davis2023-01-26
130 views|1 years ago
💫 Short Summary
The video discusses different pricing strategies for consulting services, including transitioning from hourly billing to fixed rates and value-based models. It emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes, setting clear expectations, and quantifying the value of services to attract high-value clients and justify pricing. Strategies for raising prices, avoiding client objections, and establishing trust through expertise and credibility are also highlighted. The segment provides insights on efficient operations, building trust, and creating a strong personal brand to attract ideal clients and justify higher rates. Ultimately, the goal is to educate clients on the value of services, target higher-value clients, and ensure prompt payment for services rendered.
✨ Highlights
📊 Transcript
✦
Panelists discuss pricing consulting services.
02:07Jonathan and Jeremy transitioned from hourly billing to weekly rates and value-based models.
Jonathan focused on outcomes and value for clients, while Jeremy found weekly rates streamlined client interactions.
Importance of strategic concepts and setting up architectures in addition to coding was emphasized.
Discussion provided insights into different pricing strategies and the evolution of consulting service models.
✦
Strategies for pricing services in consulting include commission-based collections, monthly retainers, and hourly billing.
04:33Different packages are tailored to client needs, offering options for one-time engagements or fixed pricing.
Positioning oneself as a high-value consultant can attract clients who are less price-sensitive.
Red flags may indicate clients who are not a good fit for the consultant.
Valued conversations are important for determining client fit, addressing specific needs, and providing professional guidance.
✦
Addressing price objections from clients by understanding the role they are looking to fill.
08:59Determine if the client truly needs a senior developer or a junior developer for task-based work.
Justify the cost of services by understanding the client's needs and level of expertise required.
Discuss the value of the outcome and diffuse price sensitivity to position yourself as an expert.
Make it less likely for competitors to challenge your pricing by following these strategies.
✦
Importance of Setting the Right Price in Business Strategy.
11:45Charging Bargain Basement rates can lead to clients without money and unpaid invoices.
High prices signal high quality and attract clients willing to pay for value.
Undercharging can attract the wrong clients and undervalue your services.
Positioning plays a key role in setting prices, as clients may have unrealistic price expectations based on hearsay.
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Importance of Teaching Prospects About the Value of Services
15:52Communication and understanding the client's problem are essential in quantifying the value brought to the table.
Examples of quantifiable outcomes, such as increasing sales through site updates, are provided.
The subjective nature of value can make it challenging to quantify in some cases.
The focus is on providing specific, tangible results to clients and setting up automated business processes for efficiency.
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Importance of quantifying the value of services provided to clients.
17:49Understanding the client's goals and potential outcomes is crucial in framing the value proposition.
Justifying pricing by presenting the value in terms of cost savings or revenue generation.
Having value conversations with clients to determine the worth of the service.
Focus on aligning the proposed value with the client's perception of worth.
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Importance of Decision-Making Processes in Efficiency.
21:56Using examples like flipping a coin and presenting pricing options to assist clients in making decisions.
Quantifying the value of services by saving time and reducing costs for clients.
Emphasizing the significance of efficiency in development processes and ways to streamline tasks.
Highlighting the positive impact of making operations more efficient on the overall engagement and professional image enhancement for businesses.
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Importance of pricing services and building trust in professional fields.
25:13Professionals can establish credibility by delivering consistent value through content marketing and public speaking.
Trust is crucial for attracting and retaining valuable clients, requiring continuous demonstration of expertise and reliability.
Framing services as time-saving solutions can appeal to clients seeking efficiency and quality.
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Importance of Creating a Strong Personal Brand for Higher Pricing and Ideal Clients.
27:27Delivering a passionate message from the stage helps establish trust and credibility, leading to immediate contracts and increased rates.
Transparency, education, and expertise are key factors in attracting higher budget clients and being able to charge desired rates.
Building a reputation as an expert through email courses, articles, and transparent communication can significantly impact business success and client relationships.
✦
Educating clients on the value of services leads to higher rates and attracts clients willing to pay.
31:28Explaining the process and expertise involved builds trust and increases the likelihood of hiring professionals.
Targeting higher budget clients is important to avoid difficult bargain shoppers.
Focusing on clients who understand the value of the service can lead to smoother engagements.
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Shifting focus to established businesses with technology projects has reduced pushback on pricing.
34:35Increasing rates and targeting higher-value clients has gained trust and respect as an expert in the field.
Importance of attracting the right clients, qualifying them properly, and providing value to ensure payment is emphasized.
Each client situation is unique, requiring a strategic approach to address non-payment issues effectively.
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Importance of Setting Rates and Clear Communication for Prompt Invoice Payments
38:12Setting rates that reflect value and attracting the right clients is crucial for prompt invoice payments.
Clear communication, setting expectations, and getting everything in writing from the beginning are key factors in ensuring prompt payments.
Picking up the phone to address overdue invoices is recommended as it is harder to ignore than emails.
Asking for 100% payment upfront or at least half upfront for software projects can help avoid payment delays and uncertainties about project completion.
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Benefits of requiring upfront payment for consulting projects.
41:59Avoiding delays in payment is emphasized to improve efficiency and client satisfaction.
Transitioning to fixed-rate productized services eliminates the need to chase payments.
Setting clear expectations and pricing upfront leads to smoother project execution and client commitment.
Strategies for raising prices for existing services include recognizing when pricing is too low and adjusting based on demand.
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Challenges in transitioning from hourly billing to fixed pricing for software developers.
44:53Emphasis on benefits of automated pricing and improved client communication.
Addressing the fear of raising prices and focusing on value delivered to justify pricing.
Highlighting the concept of consumer surplus and the opportunity to charge more for mutual benefit.
Insights on pricing strategies and overcoming internal fears related to pricing decisions.
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Importance of savings, maintaining multiple leads, and avoiding desperation for a single client.
48:06Avoid lowering prices due to client objections and consider pricing higher if value is provided.
Get paid in advance to establish a stronger negotiating position.
Gratitude towards panelists for insights on pricing and money, directing viewers to The Independent Consulting Manual for further learning.
00:00independent Consulting manual Round
00:01Table discussion our topic today is
00:04pricing and money I'm your facilitator
00:06and in just a moment our esteemed
00:08panelists will be introducing themselves
00:09to you I think you're going to find
00:11today's topic extremely interesting
00:12because there's so much depth involved
00:14in pricing your services and dealing
00:16with the financial aspect of Consulting
00:18to paraphrase Yogi Berra Consulting is
00:2090 pricing and the other half is the
00:23delivery each of our panelists has a
00:25wealth of experience and hard-won
00:26lessons to share on this topic so pay
00:28attention to the next 45 minutes it's
00:30going to be solid gold I promise my name
00:32is Kai Davis I'm an Outreach consultant
00:34I help Consultants product creators
00:36coaches and authors grow their Audience
00:38by managing their most valuable
00:40relationships and helping them build new
00:42ones and again I'll be your facilitator
00:44for this panel discussion I'm now going
00:46to ask our panelists to introduce
00:48themselves uh Jonathan
00:50sure thanks Kai my name is Jonathan
00:52Stark from lovely Providence Rhode
00:54Island and I'm a mobile strategy
00:56consultant I help CEOs transition their
00:59business from the sort of Legacy desktop
01:00era to a more modern mobile architecture
01:04excellent uh Julie
01:07I am Julie elster of just tell Julie
01:10and uh just until Julie is a virtual
01:12accounts receivable service geared
01:15towards Freelancers so basically I'm
01:17helping to ensure that your invoices are
01:20getting paid
01:21excellent thank you uh
01:24my name is from Super spicy media and
01:27I'm a social media consultant that helps
01:29software companies and online product
01:30creators manage their social media and
01:32generate New Leads so they can invest
01:34their time in other aspects of their
01:36business
01:37thank you and uh Jeremy
01:39hey I'm a software architect
01:41specializing in Ruby and Ember and I
01:44help Ecom and SAS applications make the
01:47transition from monolithic applications
01:49into a microservices architecture
01:53thank you all so much and so uh today is
01:56our today our topic is going to be
01:57pricing and money it's going to be a
01:59Roundtable format so I have a couple
02:00questions I prepared but uh we'll be
02:03going through them one at a time and
02:05just talking about them and seeing what
02:07comes up from them so the first question
02:09I have for the group is how do you price
02:12your services and uh uh
02:14Jeremy if you'd like to kick us off
02:17yeah sure most of my clients I work with
02:19just on a weekly
02:22basis where we've just agreed on a
02:24weekly rate uh and then every week we
02:27try to basically squeeze in as much work
02:29as we can fit into the time that I have
02:32allotted to them uh this was after years
02:35of doing hourly billing and tracking
02:38hours and doing a lot of back and forth
02:40over
02:42you know what's included in this hour or
02:44that hour and I found that a weekly
02:47uh really eases a lot of that and makes
02:49my interactions with clients a lot
02:51smoother
02:53excellent and uh Jonathan
02:55sure I used to do hourly billing years
02:58ago and I moved away from that in about
03:002006 uh to a value-based model so I
03:04would pray software development work
03:06based on the outcome through the
03:08business that I was helping and that was
03:11huge for me and I found that over time
03:14it actually started to it started to
03:17affect the kind of services I offered so
03:19I started moving away from
03:21sort of hands type you know hire me from
03:24my hands to code things up to up the
03:27value chain to more strategic Concepts
03:29you know like how to set up the
03:30architecture for the application or how
03:33to choose external teams and manage
03:37external teams to actually deliver the
03:39work and so my my business now is almost
03:42100 device so I still am an expert in
03:46software development and I do that on
03:48the side and for occasionally I'll do a
03:50non-profit promo things or just side
03:52projects for myself
03:54but uh these days it's just you know
03:57people pay me by the months to pick my
03:59brain
04:00excellent and uh Julie how do you price
04:02your services
04:03uh it depends on the type of work I'm
04:06doing
04:07um if I'm doing like one and done AR
04:09collection work it's going to be
04:11commission based so I would take a
04:13percentage of what I'm able to collect
04:15on that invoice if I'm doing
04:18um month-to-months work for somebody I
04:21work on monthly retainer I found is the
04:23best way
04:24uh for me to price up my services but a
04:27lot of my clients I'd say the majority
04:29of my clients are hourly they bill
04:32hourly
04:33excellent and uh what's up
04:36so I never did early billing um but I
04:40price currently my um my services based
04:42on my clients needs so I definitely I
04:44always create different packages uh from
04:47what I think my what I know my clients
04:49need uh and I build them by monthly
04:52retainer but I also have one productized
04:54Consulting offering which is super spicy
04:56sessions and that's one-time engagement
04:59thing and you know there's a one-time
05:01prepayment and that's it and it's fixed
05:03price fixed scope so I have kind of two
05:06different uh ways to tackle this
05:09excellent so across the group we can see
05:11that there's a wide range of different
05:13ways that we've chosen to build clients
05:15for our time for the outcomes we're able
05:17to help deliver for the value we're able
05:19to provide uh I think one thing to all
05:22connect on though is no matter which
05:24methodology we're following we all might
05:27run into the situation where a client
05:28objects to the price we put on our work
05:31our time a week uh across a group I'm
05:35curious how have you what strategies
05:37have you developed to help you deal with
05:39clients that object to the price that
05:41you present
05:43uh I can see that it starts way back
05:47before you even are talking to a client
05:49so if you position yourself as a high
05:51value
05:52consultant and you offer a very high
05:55value uh service sort of a premium thing
05:58then you're automatically going to
06:00attract people who aren't going to be
06:02that price sensitive in the first place
06:03if you do end up getting someone who's
06:05price sensitive there are a bunch of
06:07things you can do to deal with that but
06:10it could be a red flag that they're not
06:11a good fit for you but one thing that
06:13you can do assuming that that's not the
06:15case and that maybe you you can at least
06:17how do you find out if they're a good
06:18fit or not is to have what I call a
06:20valued conversation with them
06:22uh the way it usually goes they'll get
06:24an email somebody say hey we're gonna do
06:25the go-to guide for like what we're
06:27responsible design on mobile or whatever
06:28and we'll set up a phone call and I'll
06:31talk to them and they'll initially start
06:33off by talking about something they want
06:35me to do like oh we want you to rebuild
06:38these three pages you know some very
06:40tactical specific labor that they want
06:43me to perform
06:44and in my mind that's kind of like a
06:46self-diagnosis they they know they have
06:49some kind of problem and they think that
06:51this doing this thing is going to solve
06:53that problem and as a professional I
06:55think it's my moral obligation to at
06:58least make sure that I agree that the
07:00prescription that they're giving to
07:01themselves is accurate so I'll say okay
07:04that's great you know they finished
07:05brain dumping what they want me to do or
07:07they think they want me to do and I'll
07:09say okay but you know why what's the
07:11outcome of this because it's going to
07:12cost a lot of money to hire me I want to
07:14make sure that you're going to get good
07:16Roi out of this so why is this just a
07:18vanity project for the CEO or is this
07:21actually going to move the needle in
07:23your business and they'll think well
07:25geez that's a good question
07:27um and they either know the goal and
07:30they can sort of articulate that and you
07:32can start talking about the underlying
07:34motivation why do this project now
07:38um how well to do it you know is this a
07:40prototype or is this the laying the
07:43groundwork for the next 10 years of
07:44their business why am I there a guy you
07:47know is there some cheaper option that
07:48they could use that would be just as
07:49good I'd try and talk about hiring me
07:52and by the end of that phone call you as
07:55the as the consultant you'll have a
07:58really good idea if there actually is
08:00any benefit to the customer so you know
08:03if you're asking them to give you you
08:06know ten thousand dollars fifty thousand
08:07dollars a hundred thousand dollars
08:09they're going to want that money back
08:11and then some you know so if you can't
08:14find any possible way for them to do
08:17that then it's probably a bad fit if you
08:19can find a way through this discussion
08:21then they'll kind of have talked
08:23themselves into the value of it and that
08:27the ultimate fee that I'm gonna put on
08:29the proposal I get in the quote here's
08:31the amount that it's going to cost it'll
08:33seem reasonable compared to the outcome
08:35that we've discussed so if we can at
08:37least come to a conceptual agreement
08:40about what the value of the outcome is
08:42then you know it's it sort of
08:46diffuses a lot of the price sensitivity
08:49and positions you as a as an expert so
08:51people aren't going to be your um
08:54competitors will be less likely to you
08:57know have any chance against you
08:59that's wonderful that's a great way of
09:01uh taking an objection and really
09:04defeating that objection uh uh Jeremy
09:07how about yourself when a client objects
09:09to your price what sort of strategies do
09:10you find yourself using
09:13um I often try to dig into exactly you
09:16know the details of the role that
09:17they're looking to for me to fill uh
09:20often if there's a price objection it
09:23turns out that you know they think
09:25they're looking for a senior
09:27developer type of a person and then when
09:31we dig in and start asking you know what
09:34are the problems that you're having and
09:35how much of you know how much ownership
09:37of this project are you looking for
09:39somebody to take
09:40sometimes it turns out that yeah they
09:42really do need senior people and they
09:44just don't have a good idea of what
09:46Market rates look like
09:48um and sometimes we discover Oh no
09:51you're not looking for a senior person
09:52you're looking for a junior developer
09:54that you can parcel out tasks to
09:57that you know is like Jonathan said Just
10:00A Pair of Hands that's going to come in
10:01and do some stuff on the product or on
10:03the project and if that's the case you
10:06know you don't need senior people for
10:07that you need senior people when it's
10:10you know decisions about how are we
10:13going to architect this thing how are we
10:14going to deploy it how are we going to
10:16support it over the next few years
10:19um and you know if if they're not
10:21looking for people to make those kind of
10:22decisions then I'm you know not a good
10:25fit for that project and rightly so they
10:28probably don't want to pay my rates and
10:30so it's often a process of figuring out
10:33you know
10:34kind of like Jonathan said also have
10:36they self-diagnosed a problem and maybe
10:38diagnosed it incorrectly and so they
10:40think that they need things that they
10:42don't actually need and so sometimes
10:44it's just that process of trying to talk
10:46them into
10:48looking for more Junior Talent
10:50excellent so very heavy on the
10:52communication in both cases uh Julie so
10:56you have an interesting mixture of a
10:58commission-based service but you also
10:59provide monthly retainer-based Services
11:02how do you deal with objections on
11:04either side of that Spectrum
11:06so I really don't get too many people
11:08objecting to my rates but I see uh like
11:14my clients ends I do see a lot of that
11:17in dealing with unpaid invoices and I
11:20can tell you like going back to what
11:22Jonathan said as far as value I think a
11:25big part of what I'm seeing is people
11:27are charging these Bargain Basement
11:29rates just to try and attract
11:33clients and they're not getting the
11:35quality clients the people who are going
11:37to pay the rates that they are wanting
11:39so what ends up happening is they're
11:41attracting people who don't have any
11:43money like when you are charging Bargain
11:45Basement rates you're going to attract
11:48Bargain Basement Shoppers who are
11:51looking for a discount because they
11:52don't have any money so while I don't
11:55see that so much in my service I really
11:58don't get too many objections because I
12:00think by the time a lot of my clients
12:01come to me they're just they're looking
12:04to get their invoices paid so they need
12:06the help they're willing to pay me but I
12:09see the issues when talk when I'm
12:10talking to their clients about their
12:13invoices and I would say that's a
12:15majority of the invoices that I see that
12:17go unpaid or the issues that they are
12:20having when I'm talking there are
12:21conflicts about rates it's it really a
12:25lot of it boils down and they don't have
12:26the money these people and I see the
12:29invoices they are not charging the rates
12:30that they should be charging and so they
12:32are attracting these people who don't
12:34have the money to pay the invoices at
12:36the end of the day
12:38so price in a sense on both ends can be
12:41a signal if you're pricing high as
12:42Jonathan pointed out you're going to
12:44attract people who are already budgeting
12:46for world-class world-class Talent
12:48high-end Talent if you're pricing low
12:50you're going to attract people who are
12:52saying I'm looking for a affordable
12:54option with all the costs and
12:56consequences that might imply yeah know
12:58your value know what you're worth I mean
13:01you shouldn't if you're bringing a
13:03certain level to the table you shouldn't
13:04be charging Bargain Basement prices
13:06you're going to be attracting the wrong
13:07kind of person
13:10and uh how how about yourself
13:14um I just want to say that I agree with
13:17everything that Jonathan said about
13:18positioning that it all starts with
13:20positioning but I've had actually I had
13:22an interesting maybe Insight uh that
13:25I've had multiple occurrences where
13:27prospects came to me saying uh you know
13:30just a price that they've made up uh
13:32because their friend said hey a social
13:35media manager only costs a hundred
13:37dollars a month and they came to me so
13:40when I told them what my price actually
13:42is they were shocked so what I can do
13:45then is just first of all just teach
13:47them about how this works what do you
13:50get for a hundred dollars per month and
13:52just show them the value that I'm going
13:55to create when I charge a little bit
13:57higher but usually you know when
14:00Prospect like prospects like that come
14:02to me you know they usually just go away
14:04I'm not willing to lower my prices just
14:06because of that but you know just I
14:08think that showing them and teaching
14:10them about this you know particular
14:12topic is just maybe a one step in
14:15another direction that we can all make
14:16just to teach our prospects that you
14:19know if you want just the cheapest
14:22Services you're gonna get cheaper
14:24Services which you know basically means
14:27that the results aren't going to be
14:29something that you would like
14:32I I think across the board what I'm what
14:34I hear from everybody is that there's
14:35definitely an aspect of communication
14:37involved here with the prospect to both
14:39educate them and both understand the
14:41problem that they're experiencing and uh
14:44touching on something that moisten just
14:45said I'm wondering how we individually
14:48work on quantifying the value grouping
14:51to the table for clients because as she
14:53just pointed out a client might show it
14:54up with an expectation of I'm going to
14:56be able to buy a pair of hands or buy
14:58the service for X dollars but how do you
15:02quantify the actual value that you're
15:04presenting code isn't just code social
15:07media Services aren't your social media
15:09Services there's more to it
15:11sure sometimes you can you can sometimes
15:14it's easy to quantify you know somebody
15:16comes to me and says hey you know our
15:18analytics are showing that we're getting
15:20like 90 percent uh abandoned shopping
15:24cart rate on mobile
15:26and you know we know how much they're
15:28doing per year in sales and if you just
15:30say well for every 10 that I can bring
15:33that down by updating the site and
15:35making it more mobile friendly they're
15:37going to make ten thousand twenty
15:38thousand dollars more per month uh so so
15:41it's pretty easy to quantify in a lot of
15:44cases
15:46um and you can focus your services on
15:48things that are going to deliver things
15:50that are easy to quantify like that so I
15:52could say that you know I could focus my
15:54business down and say that I optimize
15:56e-commerce shopping sites for mobile and
15:59from then on out I would have an easy
16:01time quantifying the goal I would just
16:03say I want to find the value of the
16:05outcome I would just say we're giving
16:08access to your analytics let me know
16:09what you're doing in sales let me know
16:10what the bounce rate is I'll take a look
16:12at your site and let you know if I think
16:13I can have an effect on it and you know
16:16here's here's what I would do here's
16:18what the next steps are so you can set
16:19yourself up to make it really easy to
16:21have a quantifiable outcome but to your
16:25point A lot of times it's really hard to
16:27quantify in fact impossible it's almost
16:29impossible for
16:31um other than a really bottom line
16:33service like that it's almost impossible
16:35for the developer in my case to quantify
16:38the value to the customer because values
16:40100 subjective
16:42so really the only person that can give
16:45you a sense of the value when it's
16:47anything less than dollars you know
16:49something really specific like that
16:50something that they have to do so it's
16:54you know if it's something like
16:56um
16:56we are working around the clock Morella
16:59is horrible we need to we need some
17:02Automated Business processes uh to
17:04correct that or we're doing something
17:07like our outreaches or our uh our CRM is
17:10terrible we're doing making all kinds of
17:13Errors we're emailing people that we you
17:15know sending Outreach emails to people
17:17who we're already working with it's just
17:20embarrassing so things like that are
17:22really hard to quantify to put a put a
17:24number against but the client will
17:26internally know
17:28how much it's worth to them in the sense
17:31that if you give them a number
17:32they can react to that number as being
17:35either too high too low or just right
17:37and if you said to them how much would
17:39it be worth to you to solve this CRM
17:42problem that you have they probably
17:44wouldn't be able to go I I don't know I
17:46don't really know it would be hard for
17:48them to quantify but if you said
17:49if you know if you go through the cop
17:51talk with them and you move them past
17:53the task that they wanted you to do and
17:56you talk about this term that they're
17:58creating or all these problems and how
18:00much stress it's causing them and you
18:02get it the real root goal which is that
18:05they want to relieve this stress or they
18:07want to make their reputation better
18:09they want to treat their customers
18:11better
18:12and you talk about that it's on their
18:14mind when you do put a number in front
18:17of them they'll react to it in a way
18:19that like I said it's either the
18:21president be high medium or low so if
18:24you did a good job and you got a good
18:25sense of this magnitude of the problem
18:28and let's say let's say the term one
18:31let's say it's a big customer and they
18:33have big customers and something like
18:36they're probably losing one customer a
18:38year One customer per year uh that they
18:41screwed up and if you imagine that those
18:45deals are worth 100 Grand a pop and
18:48their Enterprise deals and they're
18:49really hard to get real long sales cycle
18:51you know for sure that you'd be saving
18:54them if you save them one customer it'd
18:57be you know in the hundreds of thousands
18:58of dollars so then you can say and then
19:00you think about well all right here's
19:02here's what it's going to take me to do
19:04this it might take me a month to look at
19:05this so if I price myself at say
19:09ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand
19:11dollars for the month
19:13they're they're gonna be if they're
19:15thinking about the right thing which is
19:17the whole churn problem and maybe
19:18they're losing customers over this
19:19twenty thousand dollars is going to look
19:21like a joke compared to potentially
19:23losing a major customer so it's all
19:25about having that first conversation
19:27understanding what the goals are getting
19:29a back of the envelope calculation for
19:31what kind of numbers you're talking
19:32about and then coming up with a number
19:34that's gonna be good money for you
19:37based on your level of effort and is
19:39like a tenth of what their possible
19:42outcome is going to be so once you've
19:45had that value conversation there's a
19:46huge range a huge margin you can be off
19:49by tens of thousands of dollars and
19:50still have the client rush to send you a
19:52check so I don't know if it answers the
19:55question but you know I guess the answer
19:57is you don't have to quantify the value
19:58you have to you have to
20:01sort of get the client to be thinking
20:04about what it's worth to them and then
20:06put a number in front of them that they
20:07can react to with a yes or no I I'm
20:10reminded of the old uh uh I don't know
20:12whether to call it an analogy or a joke
20:13that the best way to make a decision
20:15that you're stuck on is to say well I'll
20:16flip a coin heads right away bi details
20:18and as soon as you flip the coin and see
20:19that it comes up heads and you're like
20:20oh no I don't want to do that it's only
20:22been able to make that decision
20:23similarly when you present that client
20:25with like well okay the value the
20:27potential outcome is this the price is
20:29this they suddenly where before if you
20:31said how much you're willing to spend on
20:32this and they're like uh I don't know
20:34when you say okay it'll be ten thousand
20:35dollars now they're able to say oh gosh
20:37that's too much or oh go it's it's only
20:39that much it gives them that context
20:42Jeremy how about yourself when it comes
20:44to quantifying the value that you could
20:46bring to clients
20:49um a lot of times it's uh it comes down
20:52to calculations about how much time can
20:55we save their staff Engineers or you
20:59know how much
21:00can we reduce hosting costs by doing
21:03things more efficiently uh that kind of
21:05thing like when people are have a big
21:08huge monolithic application uh
21:10development feedback loops kind of tend
21:13to slow down and so things that you know
21:16seem like a simple easy fix can end up
21:19taking a good fraction of an hour just
21:21because getting the application
21:24fired up and running can be slow because
21:26there's so much of it there and so you
21:29know I
21:30want to look for things like okay can we
21:33do some things by splitting this up that
21:35is going to you know cut the time to
21:38launch this application in half say and
21:41then you know that means that for every
21:43hour that you've got an engineer working
21:44on it we're saving that that engineer 10
21:48or 15 minutes which by the time they're
21:51working on this thing for a full day
21:52means we've given them an extra hour or
21:54an hour and a half
21:56um and so
21:58you take a number like that multiply it
22:00by what they're paying their Engineers
22:02by how many Engineers they have and then
22:04we've got a pretty good back of the
22:06envelope calculation on you know how
22:09much additional engineering time can we
22:12get you by
22:14making some of this stuff more efficient
22:17so in a sense anchoring it to the
22:19positive upside of the engagement
22:23that's great Julie how about yourself in
22:25your business
22:26uh I think I this question is probably a
22:29little bit easier for me because I'm
22:30working with money so the value of my
22:34services is I mean it's right there on
22:36paper if you have an unpaid invoice like
22:38the value of what I'm doing is clear
22:42um so for me it's a little bit easier if
22:45I'm doing monthly retainer work I think
22:48I try and focus on
22:50um you know not only how much time am I
22:52saving You by doing this but if it's if
22:56you're a freelancer and it's just you my
22:59services are something that's going to
23:01help your business to look more
23:03professional you know you should be the
23:04talent you should be focusing on that
23:07if you can't afford an office manager to
23:10have a third party be able to come in
23:11and make these phone calls and handle
23:13invoices and money for you I think just
23:16it brings your business to the next
23:17level so aside from being able to just
23:20very easily be like well here's x amount
23:23of dollars that I'm going to be bringing
23:25in I can also tell you here's time that
23:28I'm going to be saving you and here's
23:31how you're going to be looking more
23:32professional to your clients so for me
23:36easier question for me I think that's
23:38wonderful I really like it in moitza
23:42so I have a similar approach that Jeremy
23:45has because social media is very hard to
23:47quantify especially because my clients
23:50are so different
23:51um each you know client of mine has
23:54different goals each social media is so
23:56different so
23:58um I actually again I just uh tell I
24:01just try to quantify in a way that how
24:03much time I can save you because the
24:06biggest expensive problems my clients
24:08have is they know they need to be on
24:11social media they know that the social
24:14media can generate leads can generate
24:16new sales if you try hard enough but
24:18they just don't have the time to try
24:21hard enough so I actually try to maybe
24:24put that forward a little bit more just
24:26how much time I am going to save you
24:29with you know taking your social media
24:30and just working on it myself so you
24:34don't need to do that yourself anymore
24:37that's great and it's a similar approach
24:40for my business where what I'm selling
24:42is less quantitative so I frame it as
24:46the time savings to a client where by
24:49investing their their money in my
24:51services uh the outcome for them is hey
24:54you have more time to focus on growing
24:55your business running the parts of your
24:57business you care about instead of you
24:59know mucking around with this or that or
25:01the other thing uh uh one thing we
25:04touched on earlier was the difference
25:06between Consultants who price low and
25:09the type of clients that attracts and
25:10Consultants who price at the higher end
25:12of the spectrum and the type of clients
25:13that attracts
25:14how how have you all gone about the
25:17process of raising your prices to
25:20attract those more valuable or higher
25:22budget clients
25:26okay
25:27that's a tricky one I think I don't know
25:31who said it but there's a quote that uh
25:33pricing your prices are the number one
25:36most powerful thing that you can say
25:38about the quality of your service but
25:40you can't just randomly pick some high
25:42number unless you have some credible
25:44claim as to why you are way more
25:46expensive than everybody else so or even
25:49why why you you know maybe don't do
25:52hourly and you do fixed project bids or
25:54you do retainer type big Scope Services
25:57or prototype services so you have to
26:01I mean basically it all boils down to
26:03trust so if you when somebody is going
26:05to make a purchase with you or anyone
26:07like us any kind of professional service
26:09provider the number one thing if you
26:11want to boil it all down it's there
26:13there's a risk there's a danger that
26:16they fear that they're going to waste
26:17their money so the only the best way I
26:21think for people like us and
26:23Professional Services and knowledge work
26:24in general is to just do everything you
26:28can to make them trust that you're going
26:30to deliver the value so
26:34um you know that boils down to Content
26:36marketing it boils down to writing books
26:38it just boils down basically to
26:40delivering value all the time at every
26:43level
26:44um in public you know speaking
26:46engagements and writing books and
26:48blogging and answering questions on the
26:51line I mean it's it's not there's no I
26:54wish you know be cool if I could just
26:55say oh there's just this magic thing you
26:56can do and all of a sudden people trust
26:58you but
26:59um give oils down to trust and the more
27:00people trust you the more you can charge
27:02basically so I guess that's the answer
27:05and so that's been your experience as
27:07you've leveled up as a consultant and a
27:10practitioner the more you've been in
27:11public the higher you've been able to
27:13yes justify absolutely So speaking I
27:16mean I've literally walked off stage at
27:18conference I've spoken at me over 100
27:20conferences and it's fabulous because
27:23people get a sense of your whole Persona
27:25they get a sense of what it would be
27:27like to work with you and if you're if
27:29you deliver like a passionate message
27:31from the stage that clicks with with its
27:34it's going to click with your ideal
27:36customers if any of them are in the
27:37audience and you can see immediately if
27:39it happens because after you get on
27:41stage they come right up to you and I
27:43I've gotten contracts right off the
27:45stage on many occasions big six-figure
27:47contracts just walking up the stage
27:48because people are immediately like
27:50this is the guy we're not even going to
27:52look for someone else this is the guy I
27:54need for this weird thing that I'm here
27:56to learn about and they just trust you
27:58like crazy it's like this um it's not
28:01crazy but it's just it's powerful to be
28:04in person and be in that sort of
28:05authority position of being up on stage
28:07and and people just feeling it so that's
28:11that's great writing a book is amazing
28:13too if you if you're the person who
28:15wrote the book and the thing you're
28:16automatically perceived as an expert in
28:18the area so that is a huge uh trust
28:22source of trust
28:23if I can just jump in a little bit
28:25because I have a similar Point uh so
28:27first of all I agree that communicating
28:29you know why you price higher than maybe
28:31uh your in my case other social media
28:34consultants is very very important like
28:36in my case you know I can achieve great
28:38results in um in a shorter period period
28:41of time than other social media
28:43consultants so I try to put forward that
28:45but I think what Jonathan touched a
28:47little bit here is like he said persona
28:49or like I call it personal Brands so I
28:52think that communicating
28:55um why you price higher and maybe
28:58developing a strong personal brand like
29:00Jonathan said where you walk off the
29:02stage or how you present yourself on
29:04Twitter for instance I think in my case
29:07just my personal brand had so much to do
29:10with charging my prices a little bit
29:12higher and just you know increasing it
29:15um over time
29:16um because you know people knew me and
29:18people wanted to work with me not with
29:20any other social media consultant there
29:22is and because they wanted to work just
29:24with me I was able to raise my prices
29:26and not you know shock the prospects or
29:30anything like that so I think Jonathan
29:32touched on that a little bit so I just
29:34wanted to just throw a little comment in
29:37there
29:39that's excellent yeah I think that's a
29:41really valuable Point uh uh Julie I'm
29:43curious
29:45how about yourself or your business or
29:47your clients that you work with how do
29:49you Advocate they attract those higher
29:50budget clients
29:52um well I think at least what's worked
29:55for me for attracting clients and being
29:58able to charge the rates that I want is
30:00I like to to Jonathan's Point becoming
30:04making yourself an expert so I try to
30:08educate clients and I find that that
30:11really has worked wonders so like I have
30:15an email course and I write articles
30:17about you know what are the best ways to
30:20avoid late payments and what are the
30:21best ways to attract you know certain
30:24clients that are going to pay you the
30:26rates that you want and I'm very
30:28transparent about what I do and I think
30:30that having that level of transparency
30:32makes you trustworthy and I think that
30:35it allows you to be able to charge the
30:38rates that you want to charge and it
30:42attracts clients who are going to pay
30:44those rates and pay those invoices on
30:46time so really that's what's worked for
30:48me and so that's what I try to convey to
30:52my clients who are having issues getting
30:55paid when they ask me how do we avoid
30:56this in the future that's really the
30:59point that I try to drive home with them
31:10accidentally muted myself I think that's
31:13really really important uh and that's a
31:15topic that's come up multiple times
31:16throughout these roundtables the
31:18importance of educating your clients on
31:21what exactly it is you do what the value
31:23of it is that you do and that that both
31:26inspires that trust leads to that
31:28connection to your personal brand and
31:30you know it helps you charge more Jeremy
31:33people people are like well how do you
31:36get clients if you're telling them how
31:38to do it yourself how do you get clients
31:39and I find that that absolutely never
31:41deters anybody from hiring me and really
31:44if anything when they do hire me it
31:46makes my job that much easier because I
31:48know that they've
31:50already gone through all of these steps
31:52so when it gets to a point where my
31:53services are needed I know that they're
31:56on top of their game and that my job's
31:58going to be that much easier it is just
32:00it is never deter to anybody from hiring
32:02me so I think education is key I also
32:06think education is valuable because it's
32:08it's uh let's pick on the metaphor if
32:10you don't know how you don't want to
32:11know how the sausage is made well if you
32:13teach your clients how your metaphorical
32:14sausage is made they're going to say
32:16this is incredibly difficult there are
32:17so many steps involved here everybody's
32:20nodding I don't want to do this myself
32:22and suddenly when you come in and say
32:23well I've been doing this for 10 years
32:24I've been doing this for five years even
32:25I've just been doing this for six months
32:27they're like oh thank God a professional
32:29I want to just throw this money at you
32:32so I don't have to do this myself uh
32:34Jeremy I'd love to hear your experience
32:37when it comes to attracting higher
32:39budget clients or clients who have more
32:41money to invest in your expertise
32:43uh so one of the biggest steps for me
32:46was just realizing that I needed to go
32:48look for a different type of client than
32:51I had been looking for previously
32:53um like prior to being an independent
32:55consultant I ran an agency with a
32:57business partner and we were always
33:00going after like local small and medium
33:02sized businesses
33:04um often it would be a business's first
33:07foray into having a web app of any sort
33:10or really even you know just a minimal
33:13website uh and so it was uh you know by
33:18and large the the bottom Barrel clients
33:21that Julie mentioned earlier with people
33:22that were kind of new to the game didn't
33:25know
33:26what was going on didn't know what to
33:28expect didn't know what to expect to pay
33:30uh and so it felt like there was just a
33:32lot of struggle to
33:35try to get the rates that we wanted to
33:37be able to charge from people that
33:39weren't prepared to pay them
33:41um and we also found that many of those
33:44Bargain Basement Shoppers were also some
33:46of the toughest clients to please
33:48because they it seemed like many of them
33:51had the mindset that the whole world is
33:55out to get them and so if something
33:57didn't go right on the engagement it's
33:59obviously because we were trying to
34:00screw them not just because things
34:02happen and you know they were not often
34:05not very uh receptive to oh I'm sorry we
34:09screwed that up we're going to fix it
34:10it's not going to be a big deal
34:13um and since you know moving and not
34:16looking for those kind of clients
34:17anymore now I look for established
34:20businesses that have you know a large
34:22technology project already going that is
34:25really starting to move so fast under
34:27its own momentum that they can't keep up
34:29with it
34:30um and that
34:32just making the change of who I look for
34:35has almost completely erased any
34:38pushback on uh price objections because
34:42I'm just operating at a higher level in
34:45the game and I'm dealing now instead of
34:48with you know the owner of the business
34:50who is getting into doing their first
34:52web app I'm often talking to a CTO who
34:57you know understands the technology that
34:59they have at play and understands the
35:02value of making that operate more
35:04efficiently within their organization
35:07um so it's for me mainly just been
35:10start looking for a different type of
35:13client
35:14that makes a lot of sense and it really
35:16Echoes my personal experiences I've
35:18grown my business I think back to three
35:19or four years ago when I had my first
35:21clients and I was charging I mean if I
35:23want to be honest 25 to 30 an hour and I
35:26just had the worst clients possible
35:28where everything was either my fault or
35:30they had a ton of changes or they wanted
35:32to micromanage it but as I've increased
35:34my rate by over eight times the clients
35:37I work with now are much more likely to
35:40view me as a trusted advisor on the
35:42project somebody who they're bringing in
35:43because I have that knowledge and
35:45expertise and the only way I've been
35:47able to get there is through the
35:48strategies we've covered educating
35:50people presenting to people taking part
35:52in different discussions making my
35:54authority known so part of it is people
35:56now come to me and say I've heard your
35:58name all over the I've had calls with
35:59prospects who say I've heard your name
36:01all over I I keep hearing you on
36:02podcasts I really want to work with you
36:04and as soon as that happens like it's
36:06almost like you have them on the hook
36:08they're invested in working with you so
36:10when you quote that number they're like
36:12he's the expert she's the expert heard I
36:15why not work with them
36:19so so flipping it around we've talked a
36:21bit about how to attract those higher
36:23value clients but there always is that
36:24risk of clients not paying and I'm
36:27wondering if uh the personal experience
36:29each of you have where a project might
36:31have been completed successfully but the
36:34final bit of money didn't arrive and how
36:36you overcame that problem and from
36:38Julie's experience working in AR how she
36:40Advocates consultants in Freelancers
36:42overcome that in their business
36:47yep
36:49should I start since this is what I do
36:51yeah Julie please tell teach us
36:55um well uh I I personally have I don't
36:59think I've ever had a client not pay my
37:01invoice and I think that goes back to
37:05um the value that you're bringing and so
37:08it's attracting the certain kinds of
37:09clients so I think there's more to it
37:11than just like well what do you do when
37:12a client doesn't pay because I do this
37:15every day and I can tell you there's no
37:17like simple answer every situation is
37:20different as to why clients don't pay
37:22invoices so I think you need to back up
37:24and go back to step one and kind of you
37:28know what we talked about a little
37:29earlier
37:31um when you're looking for clients that
37:33you want to work with you really should
37:35be qualifying clients you should be
37:36asking questions you should be charging
37:38the rates that reflect the value that
37:40you're bringing you're going to the then
37:43attract a certain kind of client and
37:45really if you're qualifying if you're
37:46getting everything out in the open up
37:49front day one get it in writing you know
37:52who you're going to be working with the
37:53expectations are clear on both ends for
37:56you and for them and then when it comes
37:58down to that invoice they're going to
38:01want to pay that invoice because
38:03everything's been clear the
38:04communication has been there the
38:06expectations have been set up and you're
38:09bringing a certain level of value and
38:12they're going to see the value and
38:14they're going to want to pay that
38:15invoice because you're going to be
38:16someone that they're going to want to
38:18continue to work with so I think it's
38:20it's a lot more than just like well what
38:22do we do when they don't pay
38:24um I mean I guess the simple answer is
38:27get on the phone that's one thing that I
38:30see when people hire me to call about
38:32invoices past you invoices nine times
38:36out of ten they haven't called they
38:39sometimes people obviously need contact
38:41information if I'm going to be doing
38:42accounts receivable people won't even
38:44have phone numbers for their clients so
38:47it's like you've never once picked up
38:49the phone and spoken to this person
38:52so I think rule number one when you are
38:55in that situation is to get on the phone
38:59um it's gonna be much harder to ignore
39:01somebody on the phone than it is via
39:04email and I can tell you calling people
39:06every day about past due invoices I have
39:09never once been hung up on never not one
39:12time so picking up the phone is key
39:16um communication is key but I think
39:19ultimately it goes way beyond that it
39:22needs to be from day one qualifying
39:25clients communication with clients from
39:27the beginning setting up expectations
39:31um knowing your value and charging rates
39:33based on that I think really is the
39:36foundation of making sure that your
39:38invoices are getting paid on time but if
39:41you're in that situation because it
39:42happens pick up the phone like for the
39:44love of God get their phone number and
39:46pick up the phone nobody ever uses the
39:48telephone anymore but you'd be amazed at
39:51the results that you can get just by
39:53picking up the phone so okay rant over
39:58I actually sidestepped the whole thing
40:00by asking for 100 payment up front so
40:03okay that's even better yes that but
40:05that goes in I think that goes back to
40:07like qualifying your clients and setting
40:09up expectations that should be in your
40:13like upfront conversations with them and
40:16if they have a problem with that it's
40:18like bye-bye so like that's all part of
40:21that conversation in the beginning but
40:23yes yes for sure
40:25yeah I mean one of the benefits of doing
40:27a software project that's fixed bit
40:30instead of hourly is that you know what
40:32the price is going to be so you can say
40:34all right you know here's the here's the
40:37quote uh here's how you can make payment
40:39and you know let's get it on the
40:41calendar
40:42and you'd be surprised I've been
40:45surprised you know I get probably 80 of
40:48people who just don't even blink and
40:49they just sent the check sent
40:52some people will say oh well can we do
40:5550 up front fifty percent when you're
40:57done and I say well you know software
41:00project you never really know when it's
41:02done we'll know when it's delivered but
41:03there still might be bugs in Fringe
41:05cases three months later so let's just
41:08do uh half up front and then happen 45
41:11days or on whatever other date arbitrary
41:13date you want to pick but uh let's not
41:15tie it to the end of the project because
41:17if you you know if you sign off on a
41:20project and then there's Buds and I'm
41:21gonna charge you for the box if we don't
41:23do that then I'll just fix it
41:26that's a wonderful strategy Jeremy how
41:28about yourself yeah doing weekly rates I
41:31now get paid up front you know two weeks
41:33at a time and I've had very few people
41:35push back on that uh when they do uh
41:38it's usually a pretty simple
41:39conversation where I just say look it
41:42it's going to make the project go better
41:44if we do it this way because I'm not
41:46going to be worried that I'm going to
41:47get paid I'm not going to be taking time
41:49out of my week to ask you hey did you
41:52pay that invoice
41:53you know everything is just going to run
41:56smoother from top to bottom if that's
41:59removed as a consideration up front and
42:01then we can focus 100 on solving the
42:05problems at hand
42:08foreign
42:12yeah just like Jonathan said 100 uh
42:16prepayment uh get paid up front but
42:19before I did that uh let's just say that
42:22I can be very intimidating when you
42:24don't pay me uh and I can make you feel
42:27very very guilty that's it
42:30yeah about a year and a half ago I
42:32switched my entire Consulting practice
42:34over to productized Consulting projects
42:36where I charge flat rates for fixed
42:38scope you know what you're buying it
42:41says on the tin it's like a Campbell
42:42Soup can you're you know what you're
42:43going to get inside of there prior to
42:45that I was just charging hourly and I
42:47was invoicing monthly after the fact and
42:50it was a big challenge for me because
42:52often I'd have clients who they'd
42:54received the invoice and they're like it
42:56takes you know a week or two for our
42:58department to pay and I'm like fine and
43:00then a week later I get well we have a
43:01couple questions about this line item
43:02can you explain it better and I'm like
43:04well this is the work I did it's a
43:05little hard to remember because we're
43:06now six weeks out from when I did it and
43:09it just was
43:10a constant ongoing I I want to use the
43:12word battle to get paid when I flipped
43:15over to requiring payment up front and
43:18making it very explicit as everybody
43:19here has said it's easier for the client
43:22to know okay this is how much I'm going
43:23to pay I'm going to hand them the money
43:25and then I'm going to get to the service
43:27like it's rare I think that you'd I I'm
43:30probably going to mangle this but it's
43:32rare I think that you take your car to
43:33the mechanic and say like this is great
43:35I need you to fix my carburetor I'm
43:36going to pay you in 90 days is that cool
43:38they're going to expect payment up front
43:40for the service it should be the same in
43:42the Consulting industry
43:46um another question I have for the group
43:48is for existing services that you have
43:52what strategies have you used or do you
43:55recommend to raise prices so ideally
43:58you're able to take on less clients if
44:00you already have a service out there how
44:01do you ladder up or level up what you're
44:03charging
44:05yeah I mean that's a great thing about
44:06productized services that are relatively
44:08fixed scope is is once you sell out of
44:10them you just your price is too low so
44:13you just raise it I mean it's it's
44:15fabulous it's one of the you know it's
44:18like um
44:20it's such a different mindset when
44:23you're you know I work with software
44:25developers and they're very used to the
44:27time for money thing and it's really
44:29hard for a lot of them to get their
44:30heads around some other way and one but
44:34once you do and you it it makes hourly
44:38weather hour just looks so weird you
44:40know it's it it the the bizarre
44:43arbitrariness of it becomes self-evident
44:45and you know you can have these fixed
44:48bid products you feel like a website
44:49tear down right and just say look you
44:52know no matter how big the client is
44:53this is only going to take me x amount
44:55of days pretty much and I can just say
44:59this is two thousand dollars and I can
45:01put a price for it on my site and I can
45:03have a buy now button and just be
45:05totally automated and then I get the
45:06phone calls automatically set up and
45:08they paid and we call and do the thing
45:11and it's so easy and if you can only do
45:13say you know 10 of those a year then and
45:17you're sold out or 10 of them at a time
45:19let's say you're sold out then your
45:20price is too low so raise it you know
45:23it's like some people I I I've heard
45:25some people like every time they make a
45:27sale of a product I service they raise
45:28the price every single time which I
45:30think is a reasonable approach
45:33how about other people in the group
45:40I would just agree with Jonathan here um
45:42and I don't know which one of you was it
45:45Jonathan or was it yukai when we were
45:47talking about
45:48um you know my book and it goes for all
45:50actually product size Consulting
45:52offerings but what we were talking about
45:54pricing someone said that
45:57as far as there are not like hordes of
46:00people telling you this is too much keep
46:02raising the price and that's a that's
46:05that's my take on it
46:06yeah I think it's valuable to keep in
46:09mind that
46:10there's a fear I mean I've experienced
46:13this fear personally of raising a price
46:15on a service or a product that I sell
46:16but it's always an internal fear it's
46:18that the Buddhist concept of monkey mind
46:20it's like 70 year old voice in your head
46:21that tells you ah it's gonna cost too
46:23much you're going to lose all your
46:24clients your business is going to catch
46:25on fire when it's your brain lying to
46:27you because your brain might gravitate
46:29towards being more afraid than not and
46:31the truth is the biggest signal that
46:33you're charging too much is clients
46:35saying oh you're charging too much and
46:37to jump back into our conversation you
46:39might experience that objection and you
46:41could overcome that objection by
46:42focusing on oh well here's the value
46:44this solution presents to you this is
46:46the value of an engagement to me this is
46:47how many hours we're going to save or
46:49how many hundreds of thousands of
46:50dollars you'll save in your business and
46:52you might still be charging too much for
46:54that value you might have something on
46:56the table where you're like oh we're
46:56going to save you a hundred thousand
46:58dollars a year I'm charging you a
46:59million dollars for this the client
47:01might balk at that unless they have like
47:03a 50-year game plan but until you start
47:06getting that pushback for you know your
47:08weekly rate or your fixed rate or the
47:11rate of the book you're selling there's
47:13always an opportunity to charge more
47:15it's that that uh concept of you know
47:17consumer surplus and economics if you're
47:19under charging the consumer is
47:21benefiting if you raise the price the
47:23consumer is still winning they just
47:25aren't getting as much of a surplus as
47:27they were before
47:29we're almost up on time here I'm just
47:31wondering if anybody has any last
47:32thoughts I'd like to contribute to uh
47:34the overall concept of pricing and money
47:36and getting paid
47:38I was just gonna say one thing that has
47:39helped me have confidence to kind of
47:42raise my prices over time is having a
47:45decent amount of savings to fall back on
47:46so that if people are saying no I don't
47:49feel like oh I have to get this one
47:52client and then very closely relate to
47:54that it's also having just a general
47:56source of leads so that I am talking to
47:59more than one Prospect at a time so that
48:01I don't fall into that trap of thinking
48:04I have to land this one this is the only
48:06client in the world uh you know it's
48:10just keeping in mind the worst that they
48:12can do is say no and move on and
48:15then you have more prospects
48:19very valuable advice and just following
48:21up on that I think you should never
48:23lower your prices just because you know
48:25there's like one client saying you
48:27charge too much or something like that
48:29but my advice would be don't be afraid
48:32uh to price a little bit higher if the
48:34value is there uh because you'll attract
48:37better clients and not only that you'll
48:39be happier happier yourself which is you
48:41know what's what's all about in
48:43Consulting business
48:46and I think one of the one of the most
48:48valuable points that everybody here
48:49touched on is the idea of getting paid
48:52in advance I mean the worst thing that
48:53could happen is you say to your client
48:55or Prospect hey by the way I charge in
48:58advance be it weekly be it daily be it
49:00whatever and they say no and you
49:02negotiate down from there if you enter
49:04into the conversation from saying oh no
49:07it's gonna you know I invoice you 30
49:08days out and then you can pay later well
49:09you're setting yourself up to get paid
49:1230 60 90 days from the time you do work
49:14if you instead just say as a matter of
49:16my business I charge in advance this is
49:19how that looks you could always
49:20negotiate down to something to
49:22accommodate the client but you're
49:24starting from a much stronger position
49:26yep absolutely
49:28well thank you all for joining me and uh
49:31uh I'm very very happy that our
49:33panelists were able to help give you
49:34dear dear uh video Watcher some insights
49:37into the topic of pricing and money uh
49:39to our listeners however you found this
49:41video be it from purchasing the book or
49:43from a friend uh you could find out more
49:45about it the other Roundtable interviews
49:47and the book The Independent Consulting
49:49manual itself at
49:51independentconsultingmanual.com and I
49:53just want to take a moment Dan thank all
49:54of our panelists once again thank you so
49:56much
49:57thank you thank you have a wonderful day
50:00bye-bye
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