00:00oh hi Hugo so uh what did you want to
00:03meet about mob darling I have a business
00:09um okay what do you have in mind uh yeah
00:13you have a watch brand and I have a
00:16frightfully colossal amount of talent
00:18success and dashing good looks naturally
00:22right and what exactly are you proposing
00:25a watch collab darling like the one
00:27you've done with um tgv and the beige
00:30Master oh so you wanna
00:34I'm thinking Platinum stealth wealth
00:38baby we can we could buy stunning from
00:40the dial hand painted onto mother of
00:43pearl of course the Hugo master or
00:47perhaps the Isla nublander get it
00:54ah that sounds wildly expensive one has
00:58subject a certain level of success on
01:01sport I'll wear it on the red carpets
01:04and Leo and Brad and Jurassic Jeff will
01:07be positively green within bear and
01:10they'll demand to have one too uh yeah I
01:15we'll sell more watches than that Madame
01:18gagar or any other celebrity Ambassador
01:23have you seen what I've done from
01:27I'm real sorry Hugo I gotta go uh record
01:30the tgv now but you haven't even heard
01:32my ideas for the advert we could shoot
01:35it on the beach in the Hamptons it's
01:37your neck of the woods I believe
01:39not on the island that is long
01:43I know some lovely swimsuit models
02:40to the show once again I'm joined by the
02:44horological legend that is Mark how are
02:46you sir good how are how are you I'm
02:49okay I'm doing yeah okay A little
02:51frazzled as usual yeah yeah are you
02:54better than usual because you're still
02:55frazzled yeah I think
02:58coming back from Italy gave me a little
03:00bit of a zest a little bit gotta you
03:03know Lust For Life well everything over
03:05there moves at the speed of a snail so
03:07very true very true I I haven't been as
03:10relaxed I don't think for about 20 years
03:13so oh good actually I was there I mean
03:17you know now I'm back it's like you know
03:19I gotta move again I know everything
03:21that you did you gotta kind of work
03:23through now yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
03:26um so how have you been doing good and
03:28everything's going good yeah no
03:30complaints no complaints busy busy good
03:32so I should probably explain and I'll
03:35preface this because this is a video
03:37I've been wanting to do for absolutely
03:39donkeys years because
03:41I I especially with you I wanted to get
03:43your opinion on it right your feedback
03:46with your insight into the industry as
03:49well as your engineering side sure um
03:52but I've never had the right context the
03:55the right framing how to start in the
03:58um and then about a month ago
04:01I uh acquired well I didn't acquire this
04:06three uh watches micro Brands all
04:10inspired by the Gerald genter the Royal
04:14Oak Nautilus kind of look right sure and
04:17of course in typical fashion uh I
04:20actually decided to to add one of them
04:22to my own collection which I did of
04:24course uh you know you know how it goes
04:25there's nothing wrong with that but in
04:27doing so somebody in the comments asked
04:29a really great question they said um as
04:31it's based on a model from the 70s that
04:34this this is by the way this is a Nevada
04:36grench in this one okay this is the f77
04:39because it's based on something that
04:41they did back in the 70s and it has its
04:43its own little quirks in terms of like
04:46it's it's inspired by Motor Racing also
04:48obviously the Royal Oak but motor racing
04:50as well so like the dial has this
04:52pattern like a fabric of the intern uh
04:54interior of a sports car right got it a
04:57lot of things like this got different
04:58hands and they are considering all of
05:01that do you still consider it a homage
05:04okay and I was like it is and it isn't
05:09and then it suddenly occurred to me
05:14there's no there's no black and white
05:16answer right there's there's an actual a
05:18scale of homogeneous it's like swissness
05:22yeah yes yeah sure and I've I've managed
05:25to figure it out so we'll go into that
05:28I've identified eight different types of
05:31homage watches okay and they're really
05:34great at the top at 10 out of 10 and and
05:38um zero you know being counterfeit
05:40replicas at zero right because
05:42understood technically they are homage
05:45of something they're legally ripping off
05:48so anyway sorry I'm I'm getting ahead of
05:51myself uh no it's good it's good because
05:53I have no idea what the hell we're doing
05:54today right yeah I said going blind
05:56don't you know I want you this is my
05:58favorite kind of video to prepare for I
06:00did absolutely nothing nice nice whereas
06:02I've been studiously you know all these
06:05notes scribbling no note I have nothing
06:07but a bottle of water perfect so let's
06:10just get the wristwatch check before I
06:12completely forget uh what are you
06:14wearing oh well this we could probably
06:16talk for a while I picked up a dark sir
06:19nice oh I saw that new incident yeah if
06:21I was an Instagram so this is my first
06:24um it's based on of uh it's a Clive
06:27Cussler like uh Memorial watch if you
06:30will Clive costler is an author he's
06:33written dozens of novels uh he passed
06:35away a few years ago his lead main
06:37character Dirk Pitt it's all thick it's
06:39all fictional uh he wore an orange face
06:42doctor uh honestly if Clive clusters
06:44probably sold more docsa in North
06:46America than doxa ever dreams due to
06:50this guy you know being all the books um
06:51but they made one yeah it's not Orange
06:53dial but it's a very Adventure kind of
06:55dial it's an aged it's an aged look to
06:59um because it's supposed to be like a
07:01relic because he always uh he Dove on
07:03shipwrecks and he's discovered stuff so
07:05um so I am I'm wearing my my first daxa
07:08yeah very excited congrats I when I saw
07:10it I haven't watched your unboxing yet
07:12it's in my watch list to watch later
07:15let's yeah I will I will uh but uh I saw
07:19it on your Instagram and it made me
07:21think of Indiana Jones the dog that's
07:22exactly what it is yeah right exactly
07:25it's like an old map right yeah like a
07:27compass rose yeah not to and my double
07:30I'm doing the flighty Oh yay that was
07:33perfect for today's discussion because
07:35that definitely takes inspiration from
07:37oh the navi time a little bit right oh
07:40sure yeah yeah yeah very nice thank you
07:43is that the 21 millimeter bracelets that
07:46you do no that's it this is a a 22
07:50millimeter mesh off of a Seiko 5 that I
07:53trim the end the the lugs of to get it
07:55to fit so it's actually Seiko branded
07:57it's got this on it yes yeah I think I
08:01ripped the part of Seiko 5 from
08:03inventory to scavenge the bracelet nice
08:05nice we there we're filing it oh yeah
08:08right yeah right exactly Dremel nail
08:11file everything yeah very uh shade room
08:14mechanic type nice nice uh I'm wearing I
08:17don't think you've seen this one this is
08:19uh so I should tuck in that it looks
08:22like an ellipse but it's not it yeah
08:24yeah you're this is why I wore it today
08:26this is my Universal genev super slim
08:31designed by genter he did this before
08:34the uh Patek ellipse and then the Patek
08:37two years later then did that I'd done a
08:40video all about this but then did the
08:42lips and it's like come on your homage
08:44and Gente and then two years after that
08:45they hired gender to do the Nautilus so
08:47it's like you you know who he is right
08:49of course and this goes into a really
08:52good point which we'll discuss later how
08:54brand All Brands have homage everything
08:56everything sure yeah nobody's innocent
09:00here unless it's like a word think or
09:02something extreme where they do some
09:03phrases or the guy who invented the
09:10thank you thank you I don't think
09:12there's been able uh we we haven't
09:13mentioned it for about two episodes so
09:15yeah probably yeah it's one of my
09:18do you remember when we ranked the
09:20Rolexes and yeah because because of my
09:22dyslexic brain I completely
09:24forgot one of the the the entries so oh
09:28right right uh it was the milk house I
09:29think right yeah and I had to
09:30retroactively put it in and I phoned you
09:33and I was like what's your score and
09:34then you I was like oh thank God because
09:36it adds up and got it yeah um so I'm
09:39gonna ask you to keep score as well so
09:41we can avoid some uh I will keep score I
09:44have said pen and writing stick
09:46wonderful wonderful okay so we should
09:49explain homage means something
09:51completely well very different to what
09:54us watch enthusiasts uh right
09:57um then normal people right right normal
10:04I would qualify 10 as a reissue from a
10:09brand that legitimately did that watch
10:11got it a long time ago so
10:15um a modern Speedmaster right got it it
10:18to me that it's it's a homage to their
10:21own past which in my opinion legitimizes
10:24it extremely legitimate yeah extremely
10:26legitimate um and it's their design give
10:29me a one so that's number ten right yeah
10:33um and that's the first type of homage
10:36which we should get out the way an
10:37original re-issue from the same brand so
10:40that's ten sure number one is like we
10:42said earlier counterfeit
10:44um you know an illegal homage so that
10:48can include Franken watches that
10:49pretending to be something they're not
10:53etc etc so that's so those are the two
10:56types okay and they demonstrate the
10:58whole uh ranking system I understand the
11:02third type okay is what I call little
11:05homage specialists okay so these are
11:09brands that pretty much just do homage
11:13watches that's all they do I got Pagani
11:15yep uh San Martin yeah uh steel is it
11:20steel dive steel dive yeah yeah still
11:22that one I'm not I haven't had hands-on
11:24experience with so I don't know if you
11:26have no so where for you where do they
11:32you know that's kind of a loaded
11:33question because you know and I'll be
11:36honest that's the way I started you know
11:37my own brands well we'll get to that
11:39we'll get to that later okay great oh
11:41this is gonna be excellent
11:43um do you mean where on the where on the
11:46scale do they lie oh so we're doing this
11:48as the first one we're ready yeah we're
11:50starting yeah yeah go through it okay
11:52um so where do I put them
11:54um somebody like a Pagani I would put
11:57them pretty close to the bottom I would
11:59say yeah um maybe like a three or so I
12:02mean they're not putting it doesn't say
12:04Rolex on the dial it doesn't say relax
12:06on the dial you know but it's just kind
12:09of it's kind of just take in the one
12:11thing and just replacing it you know
12:13with their own logo 100 you know one to
12:17one yeah so I would I would make them a
12:20three now do I want to lump everybody in
12:23that like San Martin see Stern all these
12:26guys I I don't know too much about them
12:28but Pagani I certainly know and I I
12:30would I would rate it a three okay wow
12:33that's better than I was I was gonna I
12:35was gonna give it a two oh my God that's
12:38okay and the reason is is like I'm a
12:40nice guy you're gonna find yeah I don't
12:42want to sink any ships especially again
12:43especially where I started um I'm sure
12:47there's detractors of me that are going
12:52one yeah yeah we'll get to that we'll
12:55get to that actually we're talking about
12:57detractors I got quite an interesting
12:58little story to say but um okay so
13:00you're a two I'm a three I'm gonna keep
13:01score while you keep score some are
13:04better than us some Martin is definitely
13:05better in terms of quality and and I and
13:08the ones I've seen were pretty good
13:10value for the money um Pagani the
13:12problem is is that there's a lot of
13:14scammers who claim to be them and then
13:17uh also the the the the nature of
13:20AliExpress and stuff it's totally
13:21different it's like the wild west or the
13:24wild East you could say compared to like
13:26Amazon and eBay because it's it's the uh
13:30the way they enforce their policies to
13:32protect the buyers is is very very
13:34different and not very uh yeah yeah a
13:36lot of people say why haven't you
13:38reviewed one and I'm just like I don't
13:40this I have friends who've bought them
13:43and been scammed and and it's just I'm
13:45not I don't want to support that person
13:48um then you've got QC issues you've got
13:50a misalignment uh sure debris on the
13:53dials this kind of stuff and then
13:56um I haven't uh I've had heard some
13:59really great stories about some of their
14:01their customers support and terrible
14:03stories as well so okay
14:05it's not good you know to me it's a
14:08false economy I would save up a little
14:10bit more and get something which we'll
14:12talk about in a moment higher on higher
14:14annual marginal scale exactly exactly
14:18um so so that's where I stand okay
14:21so the the the fourth type is what I can
14:25call Heritage brand homages or or
14:29Heritage Brands making homages okay so
14:33this includes tiso doing the PRX right I
14:37mean it's blatantly gent inspired but
14:40yeah it's it's got its own deal it's
14:42something from their own past squale
14:45yeah there's another one uh they got
14:47amazing history but yet they do offer
14:49they do offer the Rolex clones Yep
14:51they're Rolex clothes Invicta their own
14:54history yup Pro Diver which we discussed
14:57uh Cassie Oak Cassie Oak fantastic I'm
15:01gonna even put Nevada grenshin on this
15:03because they got a great history uh
15:06Swiss brand but then they make this
15:08which is obviously obviously gentle
15:15have you seen their their Royal Oak no
15:19they don't think so back during their
15:21kind of like shaky period when they were
15:23trying to you know this is why a lot of
15:24Barons started doing it because they
15:26were suffering after the Court's crisis
15:30sure I mean that's a tough one that's a
15:33tough one um you know if you look at
15:35someone and say oh that was a good idea
15:36that you start doing it does that make
15:37you a Maji I mean I guess in a way I
15:39mean they did it their way right right
15:41but come on look at this
15:44well that's what I said to you when you
15:45looked showed it I was like an ellipse
15:47yeah yeah this is a couple of years
15:49previous it's nice and then they turn
15:51around and hire gender to do the
15:52Nautilus right right after he has
15:54success with it I've done a whole video
15:56about it I mean one could say that the
15:57Nautilus is a homage to the Royal Oak
15:59but it's done by the same design I mean
16:02right this is this is why it's so
16:04problematic so yeah where do you stand
16:06on Heritage Brands doing homage watches
16:09so how how uh how on how high on the
16:12homogeneous scale do they go
16:14um you know I would go pretty I would go
16:17pretty high and pretty true um because I
16:19think they do a really good job about it
16:23it's not just a Rebrand or a re-label
16:26you know the PRX for example you know
16:29um there is still design work even
16:31though you have the overall shape that
16:34um there's just a lot that goes into
16:36case design and still making the whole
16:38thing flow uh so I would throw them at a
16:41seven perfect me too me too oh wow look
16:44at us we're a pair of sevens
16:47uh yeah and it gets really complicated
16:51because they're like if we if we go back
16:53to school right A lot of people don't
16:55understand that that they originally
16:57started making those Submariner style
17:00cases for blank bang right and and it's
17:03so so which means like if they did it if
17:06they did that style of case
17:09on the bequest of another Heritage brand
17:11right does that legitimize it is it now
17:14right is it wrong or right or right yeah
17:16is it right or wrong or right and and
17:18now that they started doing it again is
17:20it you know what does it mean well
17:21exactly exactly do you think that maybe
17:25this is a bit controversial but that's
17:27okay do you think it damages a brand yes
17:30you do yeah in some in some respects in
17:34um but you know what
17:36um I don't save some lights I'll say in
17:38some people's um in some people's minds
17:41um but you know you got a way that
17:44damage with what it could do to your
17:47Brand's Revenue right right and I think
17:50that some some of us will sell our soul
17:52to the devil just a little bit um to get
17:54more business and you know if it brings
17:57more people into your brand is that a
17:58bad thing not really it does its job
18:00it's like a piece of bait on a string
18:02right right right right not to go into
18:05irelander but like because we're going
18:06to discuss that later because but
18:09uh yeah I'll tell you now so I was
18:13watching a podcast right all right and
18:15uh I'm not gonna name names you know
18:18normal watch enthusiasts every so often
18:20I kind of chime in I just want to hear
18:22what the opinions of people because it
18:24was I can't remember it was it actually
18:26it was about homages and your name came
18:29and uh one of the Gen not gentlemen one
18:33of the ungentimenly people
18:35just started going on this tirade of
18:43I was so I was angry I was really angry
18:46because I was like well you know you're
18:47my friend and uh I disagree I laugh it
18:50off yeah yeah you've got a very thick
18:54um and you have to to be on YouTube
18:56especially but yeah you you told me that
18:58many years ago right yeah
19:02um and but you know what it got to me it
19:04was because you're my friend and I'm
19:06naturally defensive right again and also
19:09the second thing is that he's never put
19:11a watch out like right oh yeah no no
19:14qualification no idea no idea and and at
19:18the end of the day like you're trying to
19:19put food on the table for your family
19:21right and yeah anyway sorry that's
19:24another totally different about it don't
19:27worry about it I appreciate it thank you
19:28thank you for the defense but it's not
19:29necessary it's not necessary I
19:31unsubscribed and I'll never watch it
19:32again so good bye you know
19:37anyway sorry carrying on so okay yeah
19:39that was the fourth type the fifth type
19:42vintage inspired wait wait a one two
19:46three yeah so let me let me just back up
19:48a second in case I didn't really
19:49understand the first two that we talked
19:51about one was the replica and one was
19:53the true homage so we're basically
19:54saying that you and I we're one one ten
19:57ten is that correct yeah yeah uh 10 out
20:00of 10 is is the reissue by the the the
20:02that's the first yeah and then so so the
20:05first two are really I'm not really
20:06grading them I'm more like yeah we I
20:09think for the scale to work we have to
20:11agree that zero is a replica and
20:18oh it's one zero zero zero to ten means
20:24oh God okay well this is why you're here
20:26then don't go doing that you gotta do
20:28one one to ten that way five is in that
20:31one two and I'm gonna do my two three
20:33four yeah that'll be five kind of in the
20:35middle it really is five and a half but
20:36yeah okay fine fine okay replica is one
20:39then and then ten out of ten is is yeah
20:42thank you reissue okay
20:44okay back to number five numero Cinco go
20:47ahead so this is brands that are Vint
20:50vintage inspired right
20:53um and typically micro Brands so
20:56um I oh damn it I should have brought it
20:58I've I've put it away WMT have you heard
21:06um mainly Rolex homages but of very very
21:09obscure Rolexes that you just cut unless
21:12you've got billions of dollars to like
21:15for example I bought their homage of a a
21:18man dial with the Armani Royal symbol
21:21that uh got it very collectible you know
21:23they sell at Christie's for ridiculous
21:25I'm never gonna own I even if I did have
21:28that money I'm not interested so it says
21:31it says WMT on the dial yeah yeah yeah
21:33but they're basically just reissuing say
21:35like um like a bark case or something
21:37like something really like a try try
21:41door stuff like real exactly that
21:44nobody's got got it exactly and they do
21:46it very well and they have really nice
21:48branding really nice packaging I think
21:50they're based in Hong Kong and the
21:52quality is some people complain that
21:54they're a bit expensive yeah I always
21:56give me my question what is what is the
21:59um it depends from around about 400 to
22:02up to a thousand if you're getting like
22:04a mechanical chronograph something got
22:06it okay they're really well done the
22:09quality then you've got Brands like Dan
22:11Henry which yes he does it in a totally
22:14different way where he like I I own two
22:17in my collection in 1972 and the right
22:21I always talk about this because the 62
22:25is a perfect example if I hold it far
22:28away it looks like a speedy and that's
22:29because of the case and the bezel but
22:31then the hands are Universal genev evil
22:35Nina the the subdials are from the
22:38Daytona and these are all inspired
22:39watches in his collection right
22:42and it's funny I got the comment
22:44literally the other day about my review
22:48this one I I uh I bought and gave quite
22:51a harsh review because there were the
22:53the chronograph wasn't working when I
22:56I had to send it back they did look
22:57after me someone commented just the
23:00other say oh it was a it's a clone of
23:05um what's it called Porsche Design you
23:06know Porsche Design sure yep that's
23:08exactly what I think of when I look at
23:09it yeah if you squint your eyes from
23:11from your distance yeah that's what you
23:13probably think it is but yeah then it
23:15has a sandwich dial it has an alarm
23:17complication it has this that makes it
23:20different so I don't consider it a clone
23:23no it's no it's a it's a it's all more
23:26of a mashup a lot it's a mashup yeah
23:28yeah and it's great value here really
23:31good quality and so vintage inspired the
23:33vintage inspired how much this is I'm
23:35gonna go I'm gonna go with a five there
23:37sir right okay I'm gonna go with the
23:40um and I'll and I will tell you why
23:43um probably it's loading my own deck
23:45it's because you know I don't feel like
23:48there's much in the way of design work
23:52that needs to go on rather than reading
23:54through a history a watch History book
23:56and again I'm not no offense and I can't
23:59say I'm not guilty of doing the same
24:01um on some things but that kind of is
24:04you know there's not much in the way of
24:07design going on and that's a lot okay
24:11I I I'm gonna give it a six it's okay
24:15you can give it a six I I think
24:18I Think It's Tricky doing it on the
24:20affordable level because you're always
24:24um kind of a victim of the movement so
24:26oh yeah yes I know you know we've gone
24:29through it a million times yeah with it
24:31with our collabs um yeah
24:34you know it dictates where the sub-dials
24:36go or where it tells you everything
24:38where the date's gonna be it tells you
24:39everything yeah and it becomes a bit of
24:43Creative Kill like uh kind of I don't
24:47know it takes some of the fun out of it
24:48it does take some of the funnel it
24:53so when I was in engineering I'll just
24:55kind of Regal you with a quick story you
24:57know I love these I love these yeah and
24:59so you're a mechanical engineer and
25:01you're making a box and the box is
25:02loaded up with a bunch of circuit boards
25:04and you get the design you know you'll
25:08you'll take your design as a circuit
25:11board and and for heat transfer and
25:12structural purposes we know there's got
25:14to be eight screws in it and keep out
25:16areas for solder masks and washers and
25:19everything else and we'll give it to
25:21electrical design electrical design look
25:22at it and go well I can't fit all the
25:24components on here because you're taking
25:26away all this room from me and so no
25:29remove this screw no remove this screw
25:31remove this screw we can't have that you
25:32know it doesn't work and that's kind of
25:34like what we Face here you know the date
25:37has to be this distance from the center
25:39point it can't be more it can't be less
25:42uh you know like you said the crown has
25:44to be here has to be at three uh all
25:48that stuff so you are very fixed
25:50um you're very fixed by the movement the
25:52movement dictates everything else yeah
25:54I only give it a slightly higher score
25:56because I feel that there are some
25:58brands that are very vintage inspired
26:01that are do it better than others for
26:04they make watches that take reference
26:09you know so many different I I've I've
26:12co-design watches with them as well as
26:14you know so like I think they do it
26:16better than let's say a Dan or a or a
26:20certainly a WMT who is just very much it
26:23looks like a Rolex you know that's it
26:25and doing it yeah yeah yeah okay cool
26:27well that was I I your story was really
26:29fitting because I I probably people out
26:31there don't realize what goes into it
26:34and how even making a a clone can be
26:39yeah challenging you know so um okay
26:44this is what I call the Moonlighting uh
26:48uh homage Brands Moonlight yeah
26:51Moonlighting so I think squalor comes
26:54into this as well because they have two
26:56sides to them got it you know that's the
26:59Moonlight part I guess yeah the
27:00Moonlight yeah Moonlighting is in the
27:01sense of I have a second job yeah
27:03exactly exactly the the best example is
27:07steinhardt right they have original
27:09models and then they have like blatant
27:13just 100 cut photocopy machine yeah yeah
27:18um I've owned two so I'm you know and
27:21they're great they're very high quality
27:24um and this is what I would recommend if
27:27you know if you if you're spending a
27:29couple of hundred on a on a Pagani or a
27:33whatever just keep saving and get this
27:36because you get a warranty you get a
27:38reputable they're a German company and
27:40right they're amazing to deal with and
27:42you get a a Swiss mate a Swiss Salita or
27:45whatever it is they're using nowadays
27:48and they're impeccably done right you
27:51know and and you don't you don't have to
27:53worry about being scammed or and they
27:55even they even keep their value right
27:58you know they do well they keep their
28:00value because I would say they're so
28:01inexpensive to start with right
28:04um so they you know so there's not much
28:06you know you break it down to its
28:07constituency it's a great deal you know
28:10it's not like a car going to a chop shop
28:12I mean you put all those pieces together
28:13it's about the same price it's kind of
28:15crazy so I I have to rank the brand as a
28:19I guess I mean I it's squalid definitely
28:22for is there any other brands you can
28:24think of that have like an original line
28:26and then a homage line well besides my
28:33um but let me think uh well we've got to
28:36go 10 out of 10 here obviously oh 11 out
28:40um I'm sure there are others it kind of
28:42just escaping me I want to say that a
28:44bunch of years ago over a decade ago I
28:46think steinhardt cleaved off a portion
28:49of their company the more original
28:50designs into a new brand called to
28:53belfry and that didn't last
28:58d-e-b-a-u-f-r-e I'm pretty sure I like
29:00their pilots watches and stuff went
29:02there and then eventually I think they
29:03just brought everything back into the
29:04fold because that kind of rebranding
29:11I guess it put them out like a six
29:13yeah okay I'm gonna I'm gonna put six
29:15there as well there were six also huh
29:18okay so number seven uh this is what I
29:21call the fashion watch homage right okay
29:24and this exists on several platforms you
29:27a ton of of them you see on Amazon
29:30AliExpress Alibaba all this kind of
29:34um so what they do is that they take
29:36whatever's trending in fashion and they
29:40make a cheaper version of it and it's
29:42typically like in the style but with
29:45like this name you never heard of it so
29:47like on Amazon you because I've bought
29:49many casios on Amazon and there's always
29:52this one that I think oh that's a nice
29:54Cassie and then I click on it and it's
29:56like oh it's not a Casio it's a SUNY
29:58lager yeah yeah right I I get emails
30:03from these Brands almost daily yeah they
30:06come from certain parts of the world
30:07obviously you don't want to be their
30:09spokesman no no it would be perfect
30:14no I there's no money in all the world
30:17that would I don't I don't believe I
30:20don't believe that statement because I'm
30:22sure if a briefcase full of cash landed
30:25on your lap for one review the Urban Jet
30:28would be Urban Gentry ceases to exist
30:30but you're retired somewhere in the
30:33okay fine fine now be Tuscany it'll be a
30:37villain I'll be telling you I'm sorry
30:41trying to think of the number now
30:43what about you I I know my number don't
30:46worry about it oh you have a number oh I
30:48have a number somebody wants to buy the
30:50business I got my number don't worry
30:52I'm trying anyway yeah sorry
30:57uh yeah so so we talk about like I'm
30:59also like you know like after Daniel
31:01Wellington yes success all of a sudden
31:03every other watch you know just reverse
31:05the letters put on two different letters
31:07exactly make another name yeah yeah oh
31:11so we're not raiding the Daniel
31:13Wellington we're rating the Daniel
31:14Wellington homage yeah correct and they
31:18do everything from like yeah a cheap
31:20version of a Richard melee whatever's
31:23part you know whatever yeah we're down
31:25we're down to a two we're down to two
31:27yeah we're even we're below Pagani if
31:30you could believe it oh yeah yeah yeah I
31:32have to say I'm I'm gonna give it to as
31:36yeah there's just nothing in that and
31:39there's nothing wrong with the cash grab
31:40I do a lot of cash grabs myself
31:42um but that is just yeah and also
31:46because a lot of the times they're just
31:48going to the same Factory that's pumping
31:49the watch out yeah and you know waiting
31:52till night time and saying okay give me
31:54a hundred more and put you know WD on
31:57the dial right right and then yeah
32:00it's a bit like uh certain organized
32:04groups in Italy do with high fashion
32:09um when the factories shut down yeah at
32:12night they take it over and they make
32:14it's quite it's quite that's why I love
32:17these like being I'm not saying but oh
32:19God yeah you get versuji nervous yeah
32:22exactly so and a lot of it's made by the
32:25same people you know sure
32:27um anyway I will bleep that out for
32:30legal reasons yeah well there was a
32:32brand I carried a long time ago I'll
32:36even say it was arbitis this is going
32:37back a long time and the guy that owned
32:40the company told me that they made their
32:42dials where Movado made their dials in
32:46same factory factory at night after they
32:49were done pumping out Movado dials they
32:51would and I was like that's insane yeah
32:54and uh yeah just goes to show you oh
32:56absolutely actually that that kind of
32:58nicely segues into a question that I
33:00always wanted to ask you because oh
33:03going back to Dan Henry talking of
33:05factories in China this is back in like
33:07when did he start I think it was 2017 or
33:1016. one of the things that I really
33:13respect about him is that he went to
33:15China documented it on his blog took
33:18pictures so you could see the Factory
33:19and then seems still to this day there's
33:22this misconception that a bit like this
33:24scale right you got your low end doing
33:27counterfeit stuff and then you got your
33:28high ends doing the bulk of what the
33:31Swiss Watch industry needs you know you
33:33know the truth is out there it's not
33:34it's not uh it's not it's not a secret
33:38um because where do you think the other
33:3940 of the watch is made of course Swiss
33:44um yeah that's the law it's it's no it's
33:48I really like the fact that he kind of
33:51demystified it a bit at the time
33:55and it made me kind of believe in the
33:57brand because I respect that
33:58transparency and I you know like right
34:00um so how many of these brands that
34:03we've talked about how many do you think
34:05they're made in the same Factory as the
34:07the illegal stuff this no not many I
34:11wouldn't say because China has despite
34:14what people you know might think pretty
34:18anti-counterfeiting laws and stuff
34:21um and it's not worth it to them to get
34:23shut and whether it's corruption that's
34:24a different story it's not worth it to
34:26them to get shut down you know I deal
34:27with a few factories myself I was buying
34:30crowns and they're like yeah we can sell
34:32you crowns we can sell you them with an
34:33s on them and I'm like well I don't want
34:35crowns with an S I want crowns with my
34:37logo I said but just curiosity why is it
34:40because everybody's gonna think it's a
34:41sacral crown and we want nothing to do
34:43with anything remotely related to that
34:48um so yeah no uh the same factories
34:51maybe I'm just naive I don't think many
34:55I don't think so because the factories
34:59um my watches come from or let's say
35:01zelos comes from or let's say uh uh nth
35:06or any of these other you know
35:09I'm going to say better micro Brands if
35:12um just the cost is higher because the
35:14cost of assembly is higher because the
35:16care in assembly is higher whereas when
35:19there is a three dollar Daniel
35:21Wellington clone you're not getting
35:23you're not getting top marks for that
35:26you know the quality is not going to be
35:27all that great so I would say more than
35:29likely not the same factories absolutely
35:31I I would actually like to add a little
35:34antidote antidote no antidote is like
35:38when you're sick sorry
35:40you want a little uh oh god post script
35:43uh no um anecdote oh anecdote oh you
35:47want to tell a story oh yes sorry so
35:49you're not sick yeah
35:51only for watches true there was no way
35:54and there is no known antidote no there
35:56isn't I'm trying very hard to get out of
35:58here but there's no cure um
36:00it's just to add on to that
36:02um damn it now I forgot what I was gonna
36:08right okay I so there was a watch brand
36:11that um I was designing or co-designing
36:13a watch with right I'm not gonna name it
36:15who because maybe they don't want this
36:18information out there but
36:19we we were going to have the watches
36:22made in Germany right okay
36:24and we we sent prototypes back and blah
36:28um sorry they sent prototypes to us and
36:31they were terrible right really really
36:34bad and this was a very quite a high-end
36:36German watchmaker and the reason was was
36:40this was a an affordable a very
36:42affordable watch right to keep it within
36:46they had to produce it for cheaper which
36:48meant that certain things were
36:50sacrificed right yeah certain Corners
36:54um and it's not because of their uh
36:58um incompetence no it's because that
37:00everything every process costs costs
37:03money right so if you remove QC between
37:05each step to save money then you're
37:07gonna get a product that is you know
37:11you've you know all about this right but
37:13sure for those who don't maybe they
37:14don't right yeah for example I went to
37:17the tag hire Factory and after each
37:21uh for example after hand assembly there
37:24would be a separate section for QC QC
37:26yeah then there'll be this section for
37:28polishing then can you see again you see
37:30again yeah so that's why a watch can
37:32cost a thousand dollars but then someone
37:34else can sell the same spec for Less
37:37right now you could of course no no
37:40one's no one's impervious to mistakes
37:45um but my point what I was saying is
37:47that so then we took the same watch
37:48design and we took it to China and they
37:51did an amazing job for the same price
37:54yeah right yep so I'm just I'm gonna put
37:58that out there so it's this perception
38:00of oh you know it's German German made
38:03or Swiss made it's always better it's
38:05it's a it's it's not it's a complete
38:07fight I mean obviously also I would say
38:09that the more than more like more than
38:11likely the German Workers
38:14quality of life is probably better than
38:17the China workers quality of life I'm
38:21um but you know there was We There was a
38:23saying and I think saying is very
38:27um many Industries uh was it's price
38:30quality and schedule pick two out of
38:32three you can never get all three right
38:35right drop you know something's always
38:37going to be sacrificed you know and so
38:39like you said you know you and the
38:41reason you do QC between each step is
38:42because the last thing you want to do is
38:44Skip all the QC and then it gets to
38:46final QC and the hands are misaligned
38:48well guess what now you got to undo the
38:51whole thing whereas if you just did a
38:53five minute QC in five minutes five
38:55second QC after the hands were put on
38:58you would have called it yeah the longer
39:01mistakes go they keep there was another
39:04saying saying in my industry in
39:06engineering that like every step that a
39:08design proceeds and there's a mistake in
39:10it the cost to fix it goes up by a
39:12factor of 10. right right so catch it
39:15when it's pencil and paper and it's free
39:17right catch it when it's fielded in you
39:20know 100 different f-18s like yeah it
39:22could be a little closely yeah
39:25um God that must be terrifying because
39:27you know somebody's riding around in
39:29that you know yeah flying around rather
39:32yeah yeah riding and flying having a
39:34good time right so the last the last one
39:37number eight which one which one did we
39:39just do wait fashion watches or four
39:42five oh six yeah eight got it sorry
39:44can't count yeah it's fine a uh this is
39:47watch modders because technically
39:51mods I've seen are a homage of something
39:55either really really expensive I've done
39:58it myself I had a Seiko modded in the
40:00style of uh of the James Bond uh 65 38
40:04you know the doctor know
40:06uh which of course is like one of the
40:09rarest Rolexes there's obviously kind of
40:12is it a Franken is it because I had the
40:14dial custom made it's not a Seiko so
40:16then that opens up the discussion oh you
40:18know tgv made a Franken watch you know
40:21so come on there's watches that are
40:23completely custom made unlike anything
40:27um you could say you know there's a
40:28company I forget the name but is did
40:30customized specialized and customized
40:33customizing Rolexes you've seen have you
40:36seen that well which one there's Bamford
40:38that's the one yeah yeah okay and there
40:40was another one that Rolex took took to
40:43town and ripped him a new one and Rolex
40:45won in in legal I forgot what it was
40:47yeah anyway yeah I know yeah vaguely
40:50remember something hearing or something
40:51about that yeah yep I still I'm still
40:53gonna put them in this list because
40:55there are you know I see so many seikos
40:57trying to be Royal Oaks or trying to be
40:59this or trying to do that you know
41:00there's the 55 fathoms is it 55
41:0350 Fathoms 55 fathoms yeah they call it
41:06the 55 because it's okay yeah it's like
41:10another five fathoms huh yeah which I
41:12owned as well oh wow yeah so are we
41:15talking watchmothers so this is more
41:17than just the individual
41:19you know I'll just I'll shout them out
41:22Loom shot you know he's you know he did
41:24watch my custom you know bespoke watches
41:27you know you could commission a watch
41:28are we kind of talking about that or but
41:31we also doing talking about it at scale
41:35oh that's a good point because there's a
41:38big difference between what he does yeah
41:42which is really amazing yeah and the
41:45people I recommend like uh shout out to
41:47uh watchmakers 4 and Tempest watches in
41:50the UK those are my two two go-to guys
41:53and they're very professional right you
41:55know they have all the equipment they'll
41:57pressure test it but they're not
41:59cranking out you know 100 watches a week
42:01no right they're very meticulous they're
42:03very professional yeah so I'm gonna I'll
42:06say that then if we're talking about the
42:08Homegrown person yeah you know I give
42:10them like I give them like an eight I
42:12think they're fairly authentic right um
42:14because I think there's a love of it
42:17um you know a lot of times
42:19we tend to come out and commoditize we
42:22tend to make watches into Commodities
42:24but I think if it's someone that's doing
42:25it on a personal modding level even if
42:27it's doing it for business it's a love
42:29there's a knowledge there's a lot of uh
42:32good feelings going on and definitely
42:33good intentions all right you know to
42:36give somebody something that you know
42:38they truly can't afford you know I can't
42:39afford you know a double red or whatever
42:41and they make it out of an skx007 case
42:44and it's simply amazing in a way it's
42:46where you started right it's exactly
42:48where I started exactly
42:51um so you know we did your walk your way
42:53for a number of years
42:55um you know let people mod their own skx
42:58to their liking you know through a bunch
43:00of choices um if I give them an eight I
43:02give them an eight oh one individual
43:04okay yeah for the end for the individual
43:05also we should take into consideration
43:09um many many years if one of the first
43:11few years on my YouTube I uh I bought um
43:16skx from a modder in in the UK not
43:20Tempest that must be very very clear
43:21because Tempest is great but a mother in
43:23the UK and uh after a few years it
43:26stopped working I I sent sent it to my
43:30watch guy to have it fixed he opened it
43:32up he said this is this has none
43:34original not non-seiker Parts in it got
43:37it and I was like wow okay so that was
43:40never disclosed to me right because
43:42anybody can do it it kind of brings it
43:45down a little bit yeah I agree you know
43:47that's the negative but if you stick to
43:49gut you know do you due diligence and
43:53there's some great guys out there you
43:55know don't even make your living off it
43:57and I think I'm sure yeah so I'm gonna
44:00go seven you're gonna go eight I know
44:02I'm gonna go seven I told you I'm gonna
44:03lump all the other people into it
44:06they're gonna they're gonna bring me
44:12um so should we tally up the scores yeah
44:15um I will and then you will separately
44:17and we'll see what we come up with
44:18obviously reissues would be 20 because
44:21it's 10 plus right and then the crap at
44:24the bottom would be the would be the the
44:26replicas they get it too number one has
44:29to be the reissues because we both agree
44:30those are 10 out of tens yeah that's 20
44:32points yeah yeah yeah that's number one
44:37um in second place I have a two-way tie
44:40between the Heritage stuff like you said
44:42the tisso PRX and we just discussed the
44:45watch watches uh and whoever else so I
44:48forgot to tie for second place got it
44:50agreed yes agreed okay in third place I
44:54have the moonlighters such as uh
44:59um whoever else is kind of
45:01I say playing both sides of the field I
45:03I guess yeah yeah Islander is going to
45:05be one of those as well where getting
45:06into our own okay we're putting yeah
45:08let's put on yeah put me in there I want
45:11I'm in there uh so I'm in third place
45:14not bad I'll take it uh fourth place
45:17would be your vintage homages vintage
45:20inspired yeah vintage inspired like WMT
45:23um Dan Henry do we put Laurier in there
45:29I don't know I would say he's not I
45:32would say no because I I feel like when
45:34I look at his watches
45:36I you know I look at Dan Henry and I
45:38immediately I guess I think Porsche
45:40Design or I think whatever you know if
45:42you show me a WMT I would say oh that's
45:44a Lapis Lazuli dial or whatever yeah
45:46yeah but you show me a Laurier and I'm
45:48not like immediately
45:50oh that's a you know that's an oyster
45:52it's an oyster date or or uh the quartz
45:55one you know so with the square
45:56bracelets and stuff yeah I don't think
45:58any of that yeah okay fine sorry scrap
46:00that sorry yeah I'm very sorry Lorenzo
46:03Lauren yeah I would just saying come on
46:04get the guy some credit
46:06because I tell you I I picked up his uh
46:09brief Segway I picked up his new Tano
46:12shaped watch oh it was gorgeous the one
46:14show and I was like wow I mean it's a
46:16little small for my tastes yeah but it's
46:19great that I was like wow beautiful no
46:24yeah it's very very awesome I love that
46:26wash I think I was in my top ten of
46:28watch releases for last year actually
46:34um who's next uh it looks like you're uh
46:37the paganis of the world oh really
46:40they're worse no they're better than the
46:42uh the fashion yeah because the fashion
46:45guys came out with a four
46:47right look at that you're like oh this
46:49is no good we got to reshoot this
46:53okay paganis and whoever else steel dies
46:56whoever else you want to lump into there
46:58they're in fifth place uh and then sixth
47:01place is the kind of replica fashion
47:03watch industry right right how's that
47:06sound perfect and bringing up the pooper
47:09would be the blatant replicas right with
47:13a score of two this kind of works out
47:15nicely because I feel like
47:18I don't think I don't believe that
47:20somebody is either Pro or or anti-image
47:23I mean they can be I I but I feel it
47:26it's everyone has a level yeah you can
47:29own a watch if you're totally against
47:31exactly it's very hard to find anything
47:34that doesn't have a design inspiration
47:35from anything else exactly so where
47:38would you where do you draw your line I
47:41was funny I will tell you I think it's
47:44um in my own in my own lineup the homage
47:48Direction I go that's probably my line
47:49that's probably my floor
47:52um where I would go you know something
47:54that looks like the original maybe it's
47:56got some upgrades it's a little bit
47:58um obviously doesn't have the same name
48:01um that dryer would I would draw the
48:03line right for myself yeah how about you
48:09so definitely not illegal obviously
48:11replicas definitely not fashion watches
48:14yeah and not and not you're not you're
48:16not a Pagani guy no not the pecano guy
48:19so anything up from that I'm fine with
48:21see I'm trying to see if what what I own
48:23from this collection because I actually
48:25do if you have a Pagani and you're happy
48:28I'm not liking your choice I was gonna
48:30say you know yeah the views expressed
48:32this video or those of the creators and
48:35did not have any impact on your design
48:39past performance is not indicative of
48:41future performance and please make it
48:43consult your lawyer remember fbic if you
48:46have an issue with it please please
48:48waste your own time and make an
48:50hour-long podcast uh talking crap about
48:53me go ahead I don't I don't care and
48:56then clipping together Mike my crummy
48:58audio yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
49:00yeah yeah yeah I'll give you full
49:02permission you know go ahead um yeah I
49:09yeah I have some diver homages
49:12um you know the uh the steinhardts and
49:14squalies of the world so I own a couple
49:16of those that's probably where I am
49:17personally fair enough
49:20um and I think that's what I'd recommend
49:22too I would you know like I don't want
49:25to the reason why I'm not gonna have
49:27Pagani and all these things is because
49:28if a thousand people decide to buy a
49:32watch because I said it was good right
49:34and it probably was good or I had a good
49:36experience and then I had a good
49:37experience yeah ten percent of those
49:39people get ripped off and then it's like
49:41there's that's a hundred people that are
49:43very unhappy and right so that's why you
49:46you won't see certain brands ever on my
49:48channel unless they're willing to fund
49:54see you now sipping your Chardonnay yes
49:59um actually I quite like Riesling I'm
50:01getting into recently so I'm way out of
50:03my jurisdiction I drink seltzer right
50:08I think we'll wrap it up there I think I
50:10think it was great yeah guys what about
50:12your scores where do you draw the line
50:14share all that good stuff uh Down Below
50:16in the comments suggestions for the next
50:18show do you think are you Pro against
50:22what do you feel about homage watches
50:24all of that good stuff in the comments
50:26I got to give a massive thank you to
50:28mark for sponsoring the production of
50:30this video as always uh so I really
50:32really appreciate it and um yeah
50:35subscribe to Mark and Instagram yeah
50:37give me a sub give me a subscribe yeah
50:40subscribers come on hit the Bell
50:42notification whatever that does I don't
50:45even know but I don't think it does
50:46anything I don't think so either because
50:48I'll get notifications that you put out
50:50a video because I really still subscribe
50:52to many people at all and I got the Bell
50:54click for you and I'll get a
50:55notification like a day and a half later
50:57yeah yeah I I I click notify me nothing
51:00happens yeah nothing yeah I don't get it
51:03yeah because like by the time I saw your
51:05latest video it already had like 150 000
51:15anyway thank you Mark
51:18pleasure take care and we will catch you
