The Borderlands Chat Ep.1: WvW Development Goals w/ Roy and Cecil
SheffPlaysGames2024-07-20
1K views|1 months ago
💫 Short Summary
The video features discussions with ArenaNet devs on World vs World changes, including structural improvements, population balancing, and player engagement. It highlights the challenges of server restructuring, community dynamics, and the importance of player feedback for continuous improvement in Guild Wars 2. Efforts are made to incentivize winning, align player incentives, and enhance the overall gaming experience. The speaker emphasizes transparency, communication, and adaptability to diverse player preferences, aiming to create a more competitive and inclusive gaming environment.
✨ Highlights
📊 Transcript
✦
Discussion with ArenaNet Devs on World vs World changes.
00:19The conversation focused on structural changes, not balance changes in World vs World.
The creator is grateful for the opportunity to speak with devs and hopes for more in the future.
The conversation was considered interesting and valuable, highlighting ArenaNet's engagement with creators for interviews.
✦
Dedication and experiences in early morning tournaments.
05:37Playing support classes and being a target as a commander.
Enjoyment of various game modes.
Recognition of players who prefer anonymity.
Congratulatory remarks on team achievements and platform engineers' contributions.
✦
Restructuring system in World versus World.
08:52Aims to improve matchup balance and player experience by spreading player populations across different time zones.
Addresses issues with stack servers and imbalanced populations.
Enhances the feeling of fairness in facing off against other teams.
Discourages server stacking to promote a competitive environment.
✦
The World vs World system aims to equalize player populations and address spikes and valleys in player content.
12:22It allows for better response to population fluctuations compared to static server systems.
The linking system was introduced to address population imbalances between servers.
Issues existed with both the server system and the linking system, as massive population disparities were observed between different tiers.
Continuous improvements in server structures and restructuring systems are needed.
✦
Discussion on server linking and world restructuring in online games.
15:25Aims to balance server populations and time zones for better matchups.
Allows players some control over who they play with, within limits.
Initial excitement over the idea of more player agency and group control.
Concerns raised about potential balance issues with rewards and winning on low population servers.
✦
Disparities in World versus World gameplay based on server community vibe and size.
19:01Evolving server dynamics with a focus on community and external pressure to win.
Call for a better system to support fair and balanced match-ups for all players.
Ongoing developments and adjustments in gameplay structure to achieve equal chances of winning.
✦
Challenges and benefits of world restructuring in the game.
21:45Impact of server restructuring on community dynamics, guild interactions, and long-term game health.
JQ and TC double-teaming BG in Season 2 as a strategy to address imbalance led to lasting community rifts.
Emphasis on the need for systems that balance player freedom with community cohesion and adaptability to population changes.
✦
Development of server system and World restructuring in video game industry faced delays, but were prioritized in 2021.
26:55Backend system for handling algorithms and switching between server systems was developed in 2021 and 2022.
Complex infrastructure of Guild Wars 2 posed challenges, leading to longer development time.
Competitive producer for Guild Wars 2 played key role in decision-making and gathering community feedback.
World restructuring project launched on June 14th.
✦
Importance of maintaining a backlog and setting goals in improving systems.
28:11Appreciation for transparent communication on issues like matchmaking.
Gratitude for leadership supporting transparent communication and navigating challenges in the tech industry.
Iterative process of testing and refining systems, such as matchmaking permutations.
Highlighting the importance of adapting to unexpected community actions and integrating feedback into system development.
✦
Player Engagement Data Collection and Alliance Structures.
32:16Direct live data is used to understand player engagement.
Increase in large player groups may be attributed to alliance structures.
Plans are open to adjustment based on data insights.
Time zones are not well considered in the algorithm, potentially impacting data accuracy.
Communication about system limitations is prioritized to prevent player frustration and misinterpretation.
✦
Balancing NA and OCX populations in online gaming.
34:57The challenge of managing queue times and matchmaking tiers for both populations.
Crafting an environment for all players to have a fun and active experience.
Acknowledgment of the complexity and limitations in achieving an ideal scenario due to regional differences.
Mention of upcoming changes in the game mode to address these challenges.
✦
Population differences between NA and EU servers discussed, focusing on time zone coverage and player preferences.
39:22Constant iteration and adaptation emphasized as necessary to cater to diverse player opinions and preferences in the gaming community.
Roundtable discussions planned to address issues within the OCX community and gather feedback for improvements.
Challenges in creating and maintaining a diverse and inclusive gaming environment, especially in World versus World discussions, acknowledged.
✦
Diverse preferences in the World versus World Community.
42:35Meeting everyone's needs is challenging due to the variety of playstyles.
Evolution from focusing on PVP to GVG gameplay.
Many players start with random PPT activities before becoming more organized.
Emphasis on constant evolution and diversity within the community.
✦
Importance of Community Feedback in Gaming Communities.
44:00Player populations have diverse preferences and playstyles that impact game development.
Positive changes based on community feedback are well-received by players.
Updates and attention given to game modes to make players feel heard and listened to.
Emphasis on engaging with the community, listening to opinions, and providing opportunities for change and communication.
✦
Speaker emphasizes importance of player feedback and impact of game changes.
48:16Positive reception of communication initiatives like retro blog and bug fixes.
Striving for continuous improvement while facing challenges of pleasing everyone with changes.
Emphasis on balancing improvements for all player types and taking a 'Do no harm' approach to updates.
✦
Importance of communication and experiencing different player types in gaming.
50:20Diverse perspectives and interactions lead to valuable insights in gaming groups.
Exploring different playstyles offers benefits in the gaming experience.
Ongoing improvements and challenges in the World versus World environment are discussed.
Continuous efforts are made to enhance the gaming experience for all players.
✦
Recent scoring changes and adjustments made to game mode.
53:22Developers are open to feedback and plan to iterate changes based on player responses.
Goal is to incentivize winning, make winning matter, and encourage players to care about matchups and fighting for their respective battle guilds.
Past concerns about player burnout and unhealthy behaviors are reflected upon, emphasizing the importance of addressing these issues while evolving the game.
✦
Incentivizing winning in a World versus World game mode for a healthier gaming environment.
56:22Goal is to improve communication and teamwork among players by aligning objectives.
Emphasizing the importance of winning to bring different player communities together.
Making systemic changes and iterating on gameplay to enhance overall experience.
✦
Importance of aligning player incentives with shared goals in gaming communities.
59:32Recent adjustments in a game to align player fun with overall success in matches.
Concerns raised about player base feeling slighted by majority Zerg-oriented approach and lack of prioritization for diverse playstyles.
Questions about reward structures in World versus World gameplay and potential need for rebalancing to address outdated content.
Emphasis on ongoing considerations for reward acquisition and potential adjustments in future updates.
✦
Introduction of vendors like Duan to address the issue of players accumulating excess tickets without valuable items.
01:02:41Focus on improving rewards, simplifying acquisition process for legendary items, and enhancing player experience.
Seeking feedback from players for ideas on currency distribution and game mode enhancements.
Commitment to continuous improvement based on player input.
✦
Importance of providing feedback through forums and discords in influencing potential changes in the game.
01:05:31Specific questions raised about World versus World rewards and encouragement for players to share their thoughts in the forums.
Clarification that the speaker is not part of the balance team but is willing to pass along feedback to the relevant team.
Mention of receiving bug information and player opinions on the current meta, with a willingness to share this with the skills and balance team.
Emphasis that while feedback can be relayed, the speaker does not have decision-making authority in balance matters.
✦
Discussion on the potential return of events like holidays or festivals.
01:08:43Uncertainty surrounding the decision to not host such events currently, with no definitive reasons given.
Speaker expressing interest in event ideas and their role as an 'ideas man.'
Conversation about changes in the game mode Siege, particularly focusing on design philosophy.
Speculation on the prioritization of Defense as an active event between players.
✦
Importance of player versus player interactions in game mode.
01:12:05Emphasis on engaging and active gameplay, balancing defense and offense.
Highlighting adjustments to siege mechanics, like reducing supply costs for offensive tools.
Ensuring that both offensive and defensive strategies have value and purpose in the game.
✦
Importance of Player Engagement and Efficient Button Use in the Game.
01:16:50Addressing the CU bug in the game with an ongoing investigation and dedicated resources to solve the problem.
Decision to increase tiers in each region to lower the impact of the CU bug.
Challenges in resolving complex game issues.
Decision not to delay the release of the restructuring system despite existing bugs.
✦
Importance of live data for system iteration and observing different aspects of the system.
01:18:32Openness to feedback and communication with the community for positive changes in the game mode.
Commitment to listening to player feedback and engaging with the community through various platforms.
✦
Acknowledgement of forgetting previous public tags and commitment to rectifying the issue.
01:21:55Speaker plans to watch VOD, identify incorrect tagger, and send thank you message for correction.
Gratitude expressed for viewers, well-wishes for week and weekend, and mention of interacting on forums, balance streams, and maps.
Segment concludes with warm farewell and well-wishes for audience.
00:00hey everyone this is Chef how's it going
00:02um this video is a little different than
00:04stuff that we normally put on the
00:05channel so I wanted to give it a little
00:07bit of a preamble I usually use this
00:10channel the eponymous main Channel Chef
00:13plays games for edited content condense
00:16content Focus content that's you know
00:17here's how you do something or here's a
00:19change that's coming up this video is
00:21not that it's a VOD of a stream that I
00:24did earlier this week where I had the
00:26opportunity to talk to seeso and Roy to
00:28Arena net devs about the progress and
00:33philosophy behind some recent World
00:35versus World changes things like
00:37restructuring defense changes scoring
00:40changes that kind of stuff uh in a in a
00:43world where I had more time I would edit
00:46this video down a bit I would pull some
00:47clips out but unfortunately I'm about to
00:50go on a trip for the next two weeks and
00:52I just don't have the time to get it out
00:53before I leave so I thought I'd just put
00:56it up unedited it's a little longer than
00:58stuff we normally do on the channel but
01:00it was a really interesting conversation
01:02and it's neat that arenanet is willing
01:05to reach out to different kinds of
01:06creators do these interviews and talk
01:08about some stuff that you know may not
01:10actually have been mentioned in any
01:11blogs or streams or anything like that
01:14so this is not a video about balance
01:16patch this is not balance changes
01:18anything like that this is structural
01:21changes and structural things that exist
01:23in World versus World so I hope you
01:26enjoy it was a good time I appreciate it
01:27doing it I hope I have the opportunity
01:29to do some more in the future and I
01:31think it led to some really good
01:32conversations I'll see you guys then
01:34hope you
01:37enjoy all right and then here's our
01:39here's our other
01:41visitor hello how you
01:44doing doing good thanks for having
01:48me right do you know this is a like it
01:52might sound a little bit weird as a as a
01:53starter question do you know how to
01:56type uh I have typed before yes do you
01:59know how to write
02:01to right yeah pen and
02:03paper oh
02:05yes yeah not like not like if you
02:07written a book like can you produce
02:10letters with your hand usually okay cool
02:14I was just
02:16wondering so I mean technically we still
02:19have a minute but I don't know if you
02:20just want to get it started like a
02:21minute early and then you know we can be
02:23done a minute
02:25early it's your show man we all your
02:28lead sure
02:31yeah so thanks for um thanks for taking
02:33the time and stopping by I appreciate it
02:36I did uh I have like a couple questions
02:38I've got prepped for you but I'm a small
02:40talk guy I'm a I'm a noted yapper
02:43according to many people so really the
02:46thing I wanted to start with before we
02:48even get into talking about
02:49restructuring is um congratulating you
02:52Cecil specifically as a ocx gvg draft
02:55tournament runner
02:56up probably at this point I would say
02:59the second most successful uh Arena net
03:02gvg player I think that's a pretty fair
03:05assessment I don't know about that third
03:08first are you are you claiming that you
03:10might be better than I'm actually I'm
03:11actually better than Roy that's what it
03:14is not saying very much have you have
03:18you gvg recently Roy or are you retired
03:20from the
03:22scene uh for me to have gvg recently
03:25there would have had to been gvgs going
03:26on
03:28so yeah so maybe CE so at this point you
03:31are the best gvg who works at Arena at
03:35yeah I can't
03:37st. yeah that's actually the my
03:39superpower is just staying up till 3:00
03:41a.m. to be a part of that tournament I
03:43mean like you told me that you
03:45participated I was like oh that's pretty
03:46neat and then you were like yeah I was
03:47waking up at like 3:00 a.m. to do
03:49footage reviews and I was like that
03:51could not be me would I would not do
03:54that that's a that's a level of
03:56dedication that's completely different
04:01has corrected me in chat there are there
04:03are two guilds on an agbg I'm not good
04:05enough to gbg with them so that's fair C
04:08is better I'll see if I can join one and
04:11then you were also commanding a bit
04:12recently weren't
04:13you uh sure yeah technically commanding
04:17I am uh a proud member of demolish post
04:20and we have been getting demolished a
04:22lot uh so I've been pug maning random
04:26days trying to just honestly keep our
04:29corner of vbg happy how's that been
04:32going for
04:33you uh it's all right I feel the urge to
04:37play Support classes as a commander and
04:41being both support and Commander and
04:44having an arena net tag on makes me a
04:47huge Target and frequently wrecks my
04:49group but uh it's been
04:51fun yeah I feel like if I was going to
04:54command on a support build you need to
04:56play like a a permanent bunker
04:58profession
05:00to be on like you know a Firebrand with
05:01three invols or
05:04whatever yeah my most successful day was
05:06actually just on support Scourge uh but
05:08it's probably just because I'm most
05:09familiar with necro can I ask about one
05:12up one down
05:14yes overall fun yeah it's a it's a good
05:17time I mean I've I've said this on
05:19stream a couple times but you know a
05:22common Forum take is that nobody in
05:24arenaa actually like plays the game and
05:26it's been nice to see you doing like
05:27some gvg stuff some open tag and stuff
05:29get out there experiencing some of the
05:31game mode it's good to uh it's good to
05:35see yeah I think it's just it's good to
05:37remember that uh we have the ability to
05:39turn our tags off and we actually have a
05:41fair amount of Arena players that just
05:43play the game all the time Incognito and
05:46and just want to be a normal player
05:48mostly to avoid like the permanent Arena
05:51tag snipe that like Roy is currently
05:53experiencing live on camera it's more
05:56fun though I'm going to be honest like I
05:58enjoy the tag s there are times when
06:00it's fun but I can definitely understand
06:02that there's times when you just like
06:03don't want people to know that it's
06:06you yeah
06:08absolutely and then also like a a
06:10congratulations to both you and to the
06:14the world versus worldy de team overall
06:15you guys have had a a fairly busy summer
06:17with the release schedule that you've
06:18had going on you know restructuring is
06:20live scoring Changers are live way
06:23earlier than I thought they would be you
06:25guys have been uh you've been working on
06:27some stuff
06:29varying degrees of popularity on those
06:31changes I would say but definitely a
06:34good time to uh be working on learning
06:36new
06:38stuff yeah for sure congrats Roy on the
06:41scoring changes that's big big win for
06:43him yeah team effort as is everything
06:47yeah that's true we have we have a
06:49really awesome uh World VI World
06:51team you don't hear from our Engineers
06:53very often but we have some amazing
06:55platform Engineers that work on our team
06:56and uh make some really cool stuff
06:59happen
07:01yeah the the relas schedule has been
07:02nice lately I mean my perspective on it
07:04is so weird because I started playing in
07:06like I think late 2018 I started playing
07:09when
07:10um basically when dragonfall came out so
07:13like end of
07:14PF which I've heard from people who have
07:17played longer than me was like one of
07:18the worst times to play World versus
07:20World because you were stuck in that
07:21support meta where the only two
07:23professions you could legally play were
07:25like Scrapper and Firebrand so for me
07:28across like my Entire World versus World
07:30Journey it's only kind of ever improved
07:34I got to avoid a lot of the dark times
07:36like the postseasons triple red BL era I
07:39wasn't around for that I only had to
07:41suffer through like the stealth blast
07:43meta a little bit before that got
07:46changed so I think I definitely have
07:48like you know a Rosier perspective than
07:50a lot of other people but it's been good
07:52lately the the quality of life changes
07:55the improvements that have rolled out
07:56have been pretty
07:57steady but the thing that we want to
07:59talk about specifically for this was uh
08:02the restructuring system which came
08:04out almost a month ago at this point a
08:07little bit more than a month ago at this
08:09point and kind of to to open that
08:12discussion up uh I'm curious to hear
08:15both of you guys talk about what kind of
08:18motivated the restructuring system so if
08:20you go back all the way to the original
08:23alliances post from like
08:242018 the stated goals for that were
08:27things like uh make matchups more fair
08:29fix server imbalances things like that
08:32and you know at least for me talking to
08:33a lot of other veteran players I think a
08:35lot of that motivation flowed out of
08:38some of the limitations and issues that
08:41Arena net identified with Seasons
08:43specifically as a a major source of
08:46player burnout but at least from your
08:48perspective what are the uh kind of like
08:50the issues that restructuring purports
08:52to fix with the way that World versus
08:54World exists structurally
09:00yeah I mean I could start um Rob
09:02structuring from my perspective is
09:05primarily a matchup balance Tool uh it
09:08is trying to present A system that
09:10allows players to have a reasonable
09:13amount of control over their placement
09:16but to really put more competitive
09:18matchups on the table and so some of the
09:21specific ways that we want to you know
09:23specific things we think about in
09:25matchup balance are uh player population
09:28across different time zones um it's not
09:33that we believe World restructuring
09:34necessarily improves the number of
09:37players in any given time zone but we're
09:39trying to spread them more logically so
09:42that those players have fights when they
09:44want them and have uh opposition in
09:46their game rather than having you know
09:49issues with stack servers where certain
09:52servers might only have an ocx or C
09:56population and feel to their na players
09:59to be completely empty um and and I
10:01think though it is a balanced tool a lot
10:04of world restructuring is about
10:06improving the feeling of logging into
10:09World VI World and going up against
10:11other team and there actually being
10:13people on your side and on their side to
10:15feel like you have a
10:21chance did you did you find that a lot
10:23of that
10:24stacking kind of cuz like I I know how
10:26it would work in seasons and postseasons
10:28you'd basically like like pick a flavor
10:30of the month server that people wanted
10:32to
10:33join and then you just stack the hell
10:35out of it in na you'd move like
10:36alliances there or something like that
10:37it led to these really
10:39imbalanced uh Styles and approaches of
10:41kind of like structuring the content in
10:43World versus World so it's mostly just a
10:46a tool to kind of equalize some of those
10:48things out get rid of those those spikes
10:49and valleys of way or player content
10:51winds
10:52up I would say that's his primary
10:55purpose uh and it has some secondary
10:57benefits of allowing us to be a little
11:00more reactive to population fluctuation
11:03which is something that uh you may
11:05remember from those original posts you
11:07know as the population of just active
11:09worldly World players changes or player
11:11Behavior changes having a system you
11:14know that's that's algorithmically
11:15driven that we can make edits to rather
11:17than the static server system allows us
11:20to respond to those changes better you
11:22know if you think to even like other
11:24games when you lose player population
11:27you do things like server merges um that
11:30can be
11:32fairly uh wild uh from a from an
11:35engineering standpoint and this is you
11:38know though it is a long coming
11:40engineering project it is more flexible
11:43now that it's
11:45up and I mean there was a time this is
11:48actually something I didn't even know
11:49until I started doing these server
11:51history project things but there was
11:52actually a time when link servers
11:53weren't a thing there's actually every
11:56server was just you know that was your
11:58server
12:00and my understanding of it from talking
12:01to players is that eventually some of
12:03those the the population imbalances on
12:05those servers got so wide where you had
12:08servers like iron Terrace that had very
12:10few people on them versus servers like
12:12black gate that were absolutely massive
12:14that the linking system was kind of like
12:16the first opportunity to try and address
12:19that to equalize some of the populations
12:22out yeah I think Roy could probably
12:24speak to that better I wasn't a very
12:26active World re World Player pre servers
12:28so
12:29I don't know what the experience was
12:31like there as much Roy do you have that
12:33kind of historical perspective in the
12:35days of like when there was a T8 in
12:38na um I actually didn't play on na as
12:43much uh in the early days I started out
12:45playing on EU but I mean you know the
12:48the server structure was the same on
12:49both regions so so was there a t was
12:50there a tier 10 in EU cuz it has more
12:53servers um I think there was tier nine I
12:56think there was it it was one additional
12:58yeah um
13:00yeah I mean so kind of going back a
13:02little bit to your original question
13:04which was uh you know about the to sort
13:08of wrap the two questions together I
13:09guess what you know what what you see
13:11the world restructuring system for and
13:12and then this talking about like servers
13:15versus World structuring um I I don't I
13:18don't know that there's necessarily one
13:20perfect system right I don't I don't
13:23know that uh World restructuring is
13:25claiming to be the perfect system I
13:26don't know that servers were claiming to
13:27be the perfect system I I think every
13:29system kind of has pros and cons to it
13:31um but there there were definitely some
13:33serious issues with the server system
13:36prior to links and I also think there
13:37were some pretty big issues with links
13:40as well uh the server system with links
13:41after it um I mean you you know like you
13:44said yourself obviously there were
13:46massive population disparities between
13:48the bottom of bronze tier and the top of
13:50gold tier um and as someone who
13:54primarily played like top of silver Low
13:57Bottom on Pik and Square on you um you
14:01know there were like definitely very
14:02noticeable differences between those
14:05types of servers the servers that were
14:06at the top and the servers that were at
14:08the bottom and I imagine it was probably
14:10pretty similar for for North America as
14:11well um and then yeah when linkings came
14:14out I I obviously I don't know this for
14:17sure um just because obviously I wasn't
14:18working at Arena at the time um and I
14:21didn't have the opportunity to really
14:22speak to developers um as a player uh
14:25back then but I imagine that server
14:27linkings were never really meant to be
14:30um instituted for as long as they were
14:32uh you know we all know when alliances
14:35as they were called or world structuring
14:36was first announced um and I don't I
14:38don't know that anyone necessarily
14:39planned for you know the server linkings
14:41to be the system that was used for as
14:43long as it was I kind of always looked
14:44at it as a little bit more of a uh
14:47shortterm sort of solution um to the
14:50problem that we just talked about which
14:51was that some servers just were
14:53massively imbalanced and so this was a
14:54way to kind of get uh more of a
14:57condensed population um hopefully you
14:59know equalize populations across the
15:00board a little bit more uh but of course
15:02you still had the same major drawback
15:04that the servers system always had which
15:07was that players could transfer between
15:08servers so you know every every time
15:10there is a relink you know you would say
15:11oh where does my guild want to go this
15:14relink what the flavor of the month
15:15server to be on this exactly and and
15:18obviously that stayed for a while um and
15:20so I think you know one big Advantage
15:22with with World restructuring is as C
15:25was saying it's it's aimed to be a a way
15:28to better populate better balance out um
15:31those those worlds or teams uh whatever
15:34you want to call them um not just based
15:36on population but also based on on time
15:39zones you know so we're hoping to be
15:40able to as as you was saying give you
15:42know the time zones like off hours ocx
15:44and whatnot um better populated matchups
15:47across the board uh you know than than
15:49servers necessarily provided I also
15:51always kind of looked at it as a little
15:53bit of a way to you know we're giving
15:56we're giving some control to the player
15:58uh over you know who who they want to
16:00play with um with a limit which is
16:01obviously very important because
16:03obviously if you could just play with
16:0410,000 different people or choose to
16:06play with the same 10,000 people that
16:07would cause some similar issues as we've
16:09seen before res servers but you know you
16:11can choose now up to a limit um of who
16:13who you want to play with which I I
16:14think is nice I think when that was
16:16first presented uh that seemed pretty
16:18promising um that was pretty exciting I
16:20remember I remember going on a a tea
16:22time actually I think when the First
16:23Alliance post got made on the forums and
16:26talking about it um and and uh you know
16:29it was it was exciting to to think that
16:31we were going to kind of have more
16:32control over um you know the people that
16:34we were able to to play with and and
16:36group up um as opposed to kind of
16:37getting uh you know relink around uh
16:40that was that was kind of an exciting
16:42idea I don't know if uh that answered
16:44all of your questions about the servers
16:45if you have more them it did the one
16:48thing that I wanted to add is it's kind
16:49of seems like a a balanced nightmare to
16:51start thinking about adding things like
16:53rewards and having winning matter when
16:56you have these low POP servers that are
16:58stuck in T8 that have like no reasonable
17:00shot of ever climbing out of that tier
17:02and are just relying on gills to
17:03transfer to them to do
17:05anything yeah I mean I will say uh I'm
17:09obviously not qualified to speak for uh
17:11the entire world vers world population I
17:14don't know that anyone is um I do think
17:17that there were people who enjoyed that
17:19sort of disparity in a way you know I
17:21think there was you know there was a
17:22level of kind of understanding that if
17:24you were in gold league you kind of you
17:26had larger map groups um that ran around
17:28you you know you focused a lot more on
17:30on pping um you know definitely during
17:32the seasons those were the groups that
17:33were kind of slated to win those Seasons
17:35or those tiers um and then I I think a
17:37lot of people kind of looked and again
17:39this is obviously from an EU perspective
17:41versus like I don't know exactly how and
17:43thought about it although I you know I
17:44know like na had certain fight tiers or
17:46something um I think uh on uh uh during
17:49during the old server system uh but then
17:51you know you had silver silver league
17:53which was kind of like a mix between um
17:55uh bronze and gold and then you had
17:56bronze League which a lot of people kind
17:58of looked at you you know smaller scale
17:59Havoc um groups and obviously that's you
18:03know that's generalizing that's
18:04obviously talk the case across the board
18:07but I think there were some people that
18:08kind of enjoyed that um difference of
18:10system but again I think in in in
18:11regards to trying to create sort of more
18:14fair and balanced match ups across the
18:15board it like I said you know it
18:17obviously has its drawbacks um and so
18:19yeah you're totally right um you know if
18:21we want to give every person and you
18:24know every team or world you know an
18:26equal chance of or relatively equal
18:28chance of winning and at least feel like
18:30they have an equal chance of winning um
18:32and we want to you know move towards
18:33making a winning matter move towards
18:34making scoring more fair um then
18:36definitely there needs to be a better
18:38system in place um to support that and
18:40and that's why you know you
18:42see you know I I would say everything
18:45that we're doing and have been doing is
18:47kind of um steps towards an ultimate
18:49goal um you know uh along the way and so
18:52there's multiple steps to that
18:54process yeah definitely there's there's
18:57two things that Chad is saying that I
18:58want to mention really quick cuz I I
18:59think they kind of fold in is that
19:01during like The Season's era and even
19:03shortly after The Season's era you
19:05definitely had different uh like tear of
19:07population in World versus World where
19:10the atmosphere and the the personality
19:13that like the big na T1 fight servers
19:15had places like JQ BG Muma Etc had a
19:20really different like Community Vibe
19:22than servers that were down in like t7
19:25T8 where the the servers that were
19:27further down kind of had these small
19:28more tightly knit communities they were
19:31you know obviously smaller because the
19:33the population size is smaller but they
19:34were also just like it more focused on
19:37the community because there wasn't this
19:38external pressure to win and so it was
19:41it was interesting to see that evolve
19:43but also you know there might be times
19:44that that's not necessarily desirable
19:47where you want the player base's
19:49expectations around the game to fracture
19:51that
19:52much um and then the other thing that
19:54people are saying which is like it's not
19:56really related to the conversation were
19:58having but it was like an interesting
20:01time to note is back before the PVE Mega
20:04servers when you would actually have
20:06like you know you were on Blackgate and
20:08you'd go into World versus World and
20:09You' it's awful in this Lords room right
20:12now by the way uh but you'd like you'd
20:14be on BG you'd see other people on BG in
20:17Lion's Arch and you'd like you'd rally
20:19the forces in La map chat oh
20:23yeah there there's a bunch of stuff in
20:25like old old Guild Wars 2
20:29that like a lot of people might not have
20:30been around for that were really
20:31different from the way things work now
20:34yeah every every Friday reset We we'
20:35Gather up in Lions Arch you know we'd uh
20:37it would be the Pike and square uh Lions
20:39Arch or you know during a a particular
20:42you know precarious keep defense you'd
20:45run into Lion's Arch and say we need to
20:46get more people into World versus World
20:48you know people would be like oh I
20:49didn't know there was a fight going on
20:51you know they jump in yeah those were
20:52yeah those are those are fun times yeah
20:54it was a really interesting conduit into
20:55kind of you know getting involved in the
20:57game mode I think uh Cecil maybe was
21:01gonna say something after I finished
21:03speaking last I don't know sounded like
21:04you want to say something oh yeah I I
21:05was just GNA reiterate a point here you
21:08said it kind of early in your you know
21:10sentence is that we recognize World
21:11restructuring isn't like the perfect
21:13system for every type player every uh
21:17group or Community right like it has
21:19real costs and I one of the feedback
21:21we're seeing a lot is a loss of a
21:22feeling of server community and that's
21:24that is absolutely a thing that we're
21:27considerate of and like want to find
21:29find and create systems that are better
21:31for creating communities within the
21:33world restructuring system but that is a
21:35real cost of this system um the way
21:39servers existed with open transfers
21:42there there is no reasonable way to uh
21:45balance those uh for for population
21:48there there's too much uh player agency
21:52in the system that allows for a lot of
21:54abuse cases and you know you hear terms
21:58like bandwagoning and things like that
21:59that's absolutely a problem that world
22:01restructuring is trying to solve uh for
22:04and allow just like gu allow us more
22:06flexibility to manage the population
22:09rather than having to kind of respond to
22:13the population changes that happen with
22:15the transfer system yeah I think that's
22:18something that was actually exposed by
22:19Seasons really well is that sometimes
22:22what's good for a guild or even like
22:24good for a server is not necessarily
22:26good for the health of the game mode
22:28over all and especially like even in
22:30Seasons sometimes you will have a guild
22:33or a server that thinks something is a
22:34good idea and really like does not turn
22:36out to be a good idea at all like the
22:38first thing that jumps out to me is uh
22:40season 2 with JQ and TC deciding that
22:44they were tired of BG winning every
22:46single matchup in season one and they're
22:48like we're just going to double team
22:50these guys that process of like
22:53negotiating that among the different
22:54guilds on
22:56TC fundamentally broke TC's Community
23:00like it was never totally repaired after
23:03that process and I mean like this is I
23:06don't expect you guys necessarily to
23:08comment on this it's something that I
23:09have observed as a player but sometimes
23:12the community will do things that seem
23:15good in the short term but end up being
23:16really destructive in the long term and
23:18I think restructuring is a approach that
23:22helps to mitigate some of those things
23:23from happening things like you know
23:25server stacking
23:29yeah so what is the kind of
23:32overall uh timeline of the restructuring
23:36process been there was the the post in
23:38January 2018 but like for people who
23:41don't spend a lot of time in the video
23:43game sphere or I don't know people who
23:45weren't born until like 2020 uh 2018 and
23:502019 were like not great years for the
23:53video game industry and then 2019 2020
23:55weren't like really great years for uh
23:58like the going outside industry and like
24:00being in the same place at the same time
24:03so a lot of that initial processing kind
24:07of got disrupted by industry factors and
24:09public health factors and then got
24:12picked later uh I think in like 2021
24:15something like that is when Grouch was
24:17saying that development resources
24:18started to get allocated so what's been
24:20the the overall timeline and process of
24:22kind of getting restructuring
24:25implemented yeah uh so I will my old old
24:30head knowledge will be a little fuzzy
24:31I've only been in Arena net for about
24:33three years um but I can give the
24:36context I know of that situation which
24:38is that uh a lot of the initial passes
24:40of the design of this system did happen
24:42back in 2018 uh a lot of smart people
24:45developed a pretty good plan uh back in
24:472018 and it was talked about with the
24:49community but due to other business
24:51needs like things got reprioritized
24:53happens all the time in the games
24:54industry and tech industry at large uh
24:58just because a thing was set out loud
24:59doesn't mean you have to keep working on
25:01it you got to make decisions that are
25:03good for the business of the time so uh
25:06it was deprioritized and as you said Gar
25:09pointed out in 2021 is when uh sort of
25:13engineering side development and Earnest
25:15started happening on the system and much
25:18of 21 2021 and 2022 were spent
25:21developing the backend system that would
25:22become World restructuring things that
25:24handle the algorithm allow us to switch
25:27between
25:28uh the server system and World
25:30restructuring to facilitate doing betas
25:32for example um those systems got
25:36developed and you know obviously a lot
25:38of bug fixing and uh solving all of the
25:41problems of you know a quite old game at
25:44this point with a lot of Fairly
25:45complicated
25:46infrastructure yeah like 11 years going
25:49on 12 at this point uh I think we're 12
25:5312 12 113 or yeah I this will be 12 this
25:56is 12 in August yeah 12 yeah okay uh so
26:00yeah it's quite old game quite
26:02complicated system and it likely took
26:06longer than anybody originally expected
26:08even once work started on it that's just
26:11again a normal part of developing any
26:13kind of complex system uh is you're
26:15going to find hidden work that you did
26:17not expect when you started out the the
26:19plan so um I've been on this project for
26:22about 18 months I am the competitive
26:24producer for Guild Wars 2 and I uh have
26:28sort of been the world restructuring guy
26:30for the last 18 months in that I have
26:32been uh doing a lot of like decision-
26:35making and and I interface a lot with
26:38the community I gather a lot of the
26:39feedback and and I bring those things to
26:41the engineering team that is working on
26:43that product and we discuss how best to
26:47make this for the for World
26:48restructuring so um and you know we
26:52finally launched in an always on State
26:55uh on June 14th which was a huge day for
26:58for our team uh and it's going
27:01reasonably well um there's still a ton
27:04of stuff I have a giant list of things I
27:06want to improve for the system uh as
27:08every person who manages a product will
27:10tell you not all of those things are
27:12ever going to get done but we we
27:14maintain the backlog so we have goals
27:17and continue working to improve it I
27:20appreciate that you've been transparent
27:21with a lot of that stuff like the the
27:22post about the ocx match matchmaking
27:24issues in
27:26particular was like Hey this really
27:28working like we wanted to but here's
27:31letting you know what you can do to
27:32mitigate it while we work on a better
27:33fix like it's not ideal but it's better
27:37than the no communication from Marinet
27:39ever meta that some people from like
27:412017 might be used to like nobody talked
27:44about World versus World for years
27:46around the time when I was playing and
27:48it's nice to it's nice to have that be a
27:50little different these days yeah I would
27:52say I would say thanks to our leadership
27:54for that of being supportive of more
27:56transparent communication and and kind
27:58of developing in the public eye a little
28:01more uh it's a scary thing to do it's a
28:03really hard thing to do in Tech and um
28:05you know the average person doesn't
28:07understand our job they don't understand
28:09what setbacks we might face or or you
28:11know general just games industry
28:14business um and that's letting you come
28:17on my stream and talk about stuff like
28:19yeah exactly um but I I love the system
28:22of us being able to talk about things in
28:25in this you know it's a live beta
28:27environment where we're absolutely still
28:29testing the system we believe it's in a
28:31good place enough to to kind of entrust
28:34world the world to that system now and
28:37continue actively iterating on it every
28:40week so did you find that the way I we
28:43went through I think something like
28:44seven eight betas for restructuring
28:46something like that my assumption always
28:48been that in large part that was to to
28:51test out different matchmaking
28:52permutations but there was also the
28:55announcement that Grouch gave in a an
28:57interview that I can dig up the link for
28:59later about how the actual system of
29:02alliances of letting these guilds build
29:05uh you know formal communities together
29:08was deprioritized basically because
29:11people just started doing it anyway
29:12before the UI even existed by making a
29:15new Guild and inviting everyone to that
29:18was there anything else that happened
29:19during the the restructuring development
29:21pipeline that was kind of like hey the
29:23community is doing things in a way that
29:25we didn't necessarily expect let's try
29:27and integrate that into how we're
29:29thinking about this
29:32system I'm trying to think of examples
29:35since I've been on it I mean a lot of it
29:37is informational um I think you you know
29:41you get you get into developing these
29:43systems and you're thinking about it
29:45from a list of requirements right you
29:47know you talk about alliances sort of
29:48being sheld alliance's UI you know from
29:51the beginning we had been considering
29:53that a core requirement of the system
29:55that we would not Ship Without that um
29:58but when you're building the system you
29:59don't start with the most complicated
30:01part you start
30:02with what is the simplest what you know
30:04what groups already exist that could
30:06approximate that and so when we're
30:08building the back end you approximate
30:09with guilds right that's more or less
30:11what happened and uh eventually you go
30:15wow this system actually works okay with
30:17guilds we don't necessarily need that
30:20more complex more resource intensive UI
30:24to get this started and so we were
30:26always Gathering data from the betas but
30:29there are one we or two we periods that
30:31don't accurately show us what player
30:34Behavior looks like under the new system
30:36and that's what we're seeing now like um
30:38the fact that we've put this into a
30:40longer system allows me to just gather
30:43direct live data and look at it and try
30:46to understand how players are engaging
30:48with the system you know I would find it
30:51really interesting to see that 500
30:55player Alliance you know uh Alliance
30:57Guild have kind of happened those pseudo
30:59alliances and that's really interesting
31:02how many of those pop up versus how many
31:0410 player guilds are being involved in
31:07the system and trying to see that does
31:10is the system working well for both of
31:12those
31:12categories um that's a long answer on
31:15the alliance's UI specific part of this
31:18uh I would also say you know the
31:20alliance's UI is never fully off the
31:22table uh it's not a thing we're
31:24prioritizing right now because like I
31:26said we have a functional system that we
31:29can draw data from but maybe we hit a
31:31point in development where that becomes
31:33important to us we're always open to
31:36adjusting our plans uh based on what not
31:40yet but I can ask situations we're
31:42seeing from the data other situations
31:44we've seen as far as like play pattern
31:47um I'll say one that has come up in the
31:49community a lot is the feeling that
31:52alliances has created a pressure for
31:55people to participate in 50 person
31:57squads
31:58um I would say that's certainly a thing
32:01that has happened recently we are seeing
32:03large groups more frequently possibly
32:06due to player activity possibly due to
32:08the way alliances are structur but uh
32:11you know that's that's one of those
32:12things is like we may have to adapt to
32:16that as a as a player Behavior but
32:18currently we have to figure out what is
32:20what is the root of that
32:22player yeah I I like I like the way you
32:25cast it as you know let's get the most
32:26interesting stuff implement at first and
32:28there's this big backlog of stuff that
32:30we can roll out over time and you you
32:32can catch yourself in these situations
32:33where you're trying to build the perfect
32:35product but before it releases like even
32:37with the existence of a multi-week beta
32:39to test some of the relinking stuff out
32:42there's a bunch of things that you just
32:43don't know about any big complex
32:46algorithmic system until you you know
32:48launch it and just kind of watch it work
32:50for a little
32:51bit Yeah the most interesting thing we
32:53can learn is is how players are
32:55interacting with the system right you
32:57know you know when you design a system
32:59you kind of um I've heard the phrase
33:01like you cplay play test right like you
33:05test it as uh the using it in all of its
33:09intended functionalities the way you
33:10designed it players are really good at
33:13giving us edge cases and that's that was
33:15an important thing uh to learn and like
33:17you brought up the um the recent Forum
33:20post that I made that addresses one of
33:23those right we are considering time
33:26zones in the way that are algorithm
33:28Works we're not considering them well
33:30enough right uh in the way especially in
33:33a situation where you have an extremely
33:35large Alliance U that that data can kind
33:37of get flattened out kind of law of
33:39averages style um and I brought that to
33:43the team as I think this is an important
33:44point to tell people we don't have a
33:46solution for it today but telling people
33:50that this impact may be happening to
33:51them is better from my perspective than
33:53letting people think the system is
33:56broken or ignoring them or they're just
33:59getting unlucky right there it builds up
34:01frustration and I'm hoping that that
34:03communication will let people make more
34:05kind of informed decisions about what
34:07they're doing yeah actually on that
34:09point I want to pull and kind of
34:11synthesize a couple questions from chat
34:13because I think people have asked a
34:14couple things that kind of tie into that
34:16point um I I think this is kind of like
34:19an NA unique problem I don't know what
34:21the state of off hours is like on EU but
34:24it it strikes me as being really
34:26difficult to balance around around off
34:28hour's population in na because the na
34:31population is sufficiently large that
34:34five tiers is necessary to kind of do
34:36things like mitigate Q buug uh make the
34:39game playable because nobody actually
34:41likes sitting around waiting in q but
34:44ocx I don't think really has the
34:47population to support five tiers and
34:48might not even have the population to
34:50support four and they're they're both on
34:53the same region so it it seems like a
34:55particularly difficult problem to solve
34:57of what do we do about this massive na
35:00population and this relative this
35:03relatively smaller but still active and
35:05important ocx population and how do we
35:08craft an environment where kind of both
35:10of them get to play and have fun and
35:12have content and see activity with where
35:14they're
35:16at yeah I mean that's a huge Challenge
35:18and like that's a huge uh goal of world
35:21restructuring and you know frankly it's
35:23one that we're only going to ever
35:24accomplish in a in a partial right um
35:27you know to talk about an ideal scenario
35:30every you know in the ideal World
35:33exactly map caps of all four maps for
35:36every team are filled at all times right
35:38and only that many people want to play
35:40World be world at any time uh because
35:42that both avoids qes and perfectly fills
35:44the maps right that's just not realistic
35:48um you know we have different uh
35:51populations in different regions and
35:52even if you didn't like say you know
35:54people often bring up the case of like
35:57uh uh what if ocx or C had servers now
36:01I'm not in control of that at all uh
36:04because that is a totally different part
36:06of our B our organization that would
36:07answer those kind of business questions
36:09but that would not actually solve this
36:12problem and I think it's important to
36:14remember that I live in Seattle and I
36:17play regularly during the ocx time
36:20because I just am up that late it
36:22doesn't matter that you put a server in
36:24that time zone uh that that would help
36:26people's lag maybe but it's not going to
36:29actively um solve the issue of all hours
36:32play uh and you know you mentioned you
36:35don't know as much about EU EU has this
36:37problem it's just less um I would argue
36:39less defined in yeah it's like different
36:42they have different allw problems EU is
36:45a wider place than na oh no a new build
36:48Roy why would you do
36:49this uh I must approach something else
36:52really uh no I actually don't know what
36:55I don't know I don't know what this
36:56change is or this update is
36:58I'm out man I'm I'm I'm bailing I don't
37:01want to get stuck in here when they turn
37:02the lights off forced to bail um yeah
37:05it's it's they're like they're different
37:06they're different off hours issues I
37:07think or not issues necessarily but
37:10different uh have balance patch
37:14incorporate when we come up with um
37:16change the game mode which is why you
37:18see of course uh you know with the the
37:20victory Point changes that we're rolling
37:22out on Friday um I think I actually have
37:24to
37:25like numbers for each region um because
37:28dock yeah the uh I'd say I'd say like at
37:31the extreme the gaps between the
37:33population on a u are higher um but then
37:37like the average population Gap is is
37:40more frequent on an a if that makes
37:42sense um just because you know na has
37:44historically had um more time zone
37:48coverage than EU does uh you know
37:50there's a lot of different there's
37:51people that play ocx there's people that
37:52play C there's people that play Early na
37:54there's people that play late na there's
37:55people that play EU on na a and then EU
37:57kind of has EU time zone uh and
38:01then everything else uh and so it's um
38:05you it's it's they're different they're
38:06different problems um to to think about
38:10uh and like s said there's not really um
38:13there's not there's probably not a
38:14perfect solution it's kind of it's kind
38:15of the same thing with uh the actual
38:18population system um you know we
38:20structuring versus servers versus links
38:22versus whatever um and so it's you know
38:27there there's we
38:28have there's a lot of iterating that we
38:31have to do um you know there's a lot of
38:32things that we want to try um and if
38:35something doesn't work out the way we
38:37want it to work out initially um there's
38:39always room to to change and and
38:41potentially try and make whatever change
38:43we do better um and and work better for
38:46all the different populations um yeah
38:50that's kind of the nature of calling it
38:51The always on beta right is that a lot
38:53of the stuff can kind of get changed and
38:54iterated on yeah yeah absolutely and you
38:57know like she said he has a long list of
38:59things he wants to to do um for World
39:02restructuring I it's the same thing you
39:03know I have a long list of things I want
39:04to do for World versus World uh in the
39:06same sort of sense
39:09um yeah I I do want to get into like a
39:12little bit more of these kind of not
39:13necessarily podcasty but like Roundtable
39:15discussions and I think one of the ones
39:17I'm planning on having once I get back
39:19from doing stuff back home is like an
39:22ocx Round Table to just kind of talk
39:24about you know what are the issues the
39:25ocx community has uh how does balance
39:28work you know how does time zone
39:30representation work all that kind of
39:31stuff and just kind of have that
39:33conversation so I think it'll be
39:34interesting to see what comes out of
39:36that because I know from talking to some
39:37friends that I have in ocx that like
39:40they're not a monolith some people are
39:42like these changes are really good some
39:44people like these changes are terrible I
39:45hate playing the game and it would be
39:47nice to just kind of you know have a
39:49conversation with a bunch of different
39:50representatives from ocx and be like you
39:53know how are things working what works
39:54what doesn't what are the issues that
39:56you guys are are running into with this
39:59yeah I will I will say uh just very
40:01quickly without maybe answering uh
40:04answering your question I I do think
40:06that uh you know this is something
40:07you're going to encounter anytime you're
40:09ever um you know creating so I mean like
40:13like you know what we were saying before
40:14about uh tech industry in general I
40:16think there's you know you're always
40:17going to have diverse A diversity of
40:18opinions uh I think gaming always has a
40:21diversity of opinions I think World
40:22versus World has one of the largest
40:24diversity of opinions I've ever seen I
40:26don't I don't think I've ever really
40:27seen uh in any Forum uh of World versus
40:31World discussion a
40:33universal um agreement from world so
40:36players on on almost anything and that's
40:38obviously not an excuse right I'm not
40:40I'm not that's not to say that we don't
40:41want to try and and uh make everybody
40:43happy but I do think that it's you know
40:45it's we're you know we're always going
40:47to expect that you know things are not
40:50always going to please everyone uh and
40:52that is not obviously ideal um but you
40:55know that is that is kind you know just
40:56kind of what you saying uh where you
40:58know we see some people are happy with
41:00changes and some people aren't um and
41:01you know I think my the way I kind of
41:03look at it is if people are happy with a
41:05change that's awesome and if people are
41:06not happy with a change I want to find
41:07out why and I want to find out if I can
41:10uh you know make them happy with the
41:11change or or change something about that
41:14to make them happy I'm I'm hearing from
41:16twitch chat that um the World versus
41:19World build update was to fix an issue
41:21that was blocking access to mot token 25
41:23in Ember Bay so now that that's resolved
41:27to go that keep
41:30again we all go get tokens uh I'm
41:34actually done with it already on both of
41:35my accounts so unfortunately I can't
41:36join you those don't exist to me anymore
41:38but yeah I was going to say like I don't
41:40I don't envy the task that sits in front
41:43of either you or the balance team at all
41:45cuz there's like no less than half a
41:48dozen different unique distinct World
41:50versus World communities that all want
41:53totally different things you've got the
41:54people who like dueling and roaming you
41:56have people like PPT you have small
41:59scale group large scale group Zerg
42:00groups you have the defense crew you
42:03have the off hours crew and everybody
42:05wants all these different things there's
42:07no unanimous solution that you could
42:09ever possibly come up with that works
42:12for everyone so it's always going to be
42:14this issue of like meeting some needs of
42:16every Community but nobody's ever going
42:18to be completely happy with them yeah
42:20and uh that to be you something else
42:23that I I was trying I was trying to get
42:25to and I couldn't find the words to cuz
42:27you know a little slow sometimes but uh
42:30I think that's always been the case
42:31right like I I don't I don't think this
42:32is I don't think this is necessarily new
42:34I don't think that the World versus
42:35World Community is split and it's only
42:37been split the last year so like you
42:39know I remember when I was when I was
42:40just a player before I be I became a Dev
42:43um you know when I first started playing
42:44all I cared about was was pping uh and I
42:47any anyone who was anyone who was gvg on
42:50home Borderland I was I was not happy
42:52with you know I told them they had to
42:53leave uh you know cuz they were they
42:55were taking up spaces that I wanted to
42:57have her players to PPT with uh and then
42:59when I started gvg I was like well hold
43:01on now I kind of like gvg a lot more uh
43:04so it's like I've gone I've gone through
43:05that exact uh exact thing myself and I I
43:08think that's always been the case with
43:09the world Community it's it's truly
43:11crazy how many people who I've talked to
43:14who started playing in like 2014 and now
43:16Guild leaders commanders you know all
43:18these different people who are like yeah
43:19I got my start with scouting I just sat
43:21in a tower for 2 hours and like said
43:23when people were showing up there's an
43:25incredible amount of people who actually
43:27just like got their start doing random
43:29PPT stuff and then they got more
43:31involved they got more engaged they
43:33wanted to do more organized stuff and
43:35like the the rest is history and it's
43:37cool to like you know we're talking
43:39about these different player populations
43:41these different player groups and they
43:42all want different things they're not
43:44static it's not like you're only a
43:46Dueler and the only thing you ever do is
43:47dueling there are different ways that
43:49you can approach playing the game but
43:51people move through them in between them
43:53all the time it doesn't mean that
43:55they're like not legitimate things to
43:57balance around they are but it's that
43:59the actual players who make up those
44:00communities shift around a
44:03lot uh serial did have one really
44:05interesting question that I wanted to
44:07ask as well he said
44:09um are there any recent changes and this
44:12he said this was to Roy specifically but
44:13I kind of want to ask it to both of you
44:15um are there any recent changes that
44:17you've made in like the last year or two
44:18where feedback has been overwhelmingly
44:20positive from
44:23everyone my guess would be that it's
44:25like impossible to hate the the Exotic
44:28vendor it's impossible to the of Duan
44:30but I wanted to see if there's anything
44:31else that jumps out at you well so I
44:34mean I I will also say I
44:36think
44:39um the feeling that I've gotten uh you
44:42know so I only been a dead for for a
44:43little over two years right uh so I've
44:45only been doing this for for a short
44:47amount of time um and this you know this
44:49is my first job the feeling that I've
44:52gotten from know since I worked here is
44:54that you know you tend to see
44:58um like negative feedback tends to be a
45:00little bit more outspoken than positive
45:01feedback so I will say I think a lot of
45:03the times absence of feedback is almost
45:05a sign of like positive feedback or you
45:08know so like if there was any change
45:09that I just heard nothing about like
45:10maybe that was a positive change in a
45:12way um but yeah I think the Exotic
45:14vendor definitely uh was you know I
45:17can't I think the only negative thing I
45:19saw about that was people were sad that
45:20we didn't originally have a aqua
45:22breather on there which we added the
45:23next patch so you know there you go I
45:25guess that was probably the most
45:26universally positive patch when we added
45:28the aqua breather um I would like to
45:31think that most of the changes we've
45:32been
45:33doing um have been pretty positively
45:36received um and in the sense that I
45:40think people are happy to see the game
45:43mode getting updates and the game mode
45:45getting attention um because I think for
45:46a long time the community felt like
45:48there weren't really things um happening
45:51for the game mode uh and you know I
45:54think the other thing that's really
45:55important the thing that's most
45:56important to me is that the community
45:58feels like they're they're at least
45:59being heard at least being listened to
46:01which is you know part of the reason
46:02we're doing something like this where
46:04you know we're getting on and and
46:05chatting with you um and you know it's
46:08part of the reason where like why you
46:09know I've wanted to try and you know
46:11post a bit more of the forums it's part
46:12of the reason that we wanted to do the
46:14stream uh where we talked about the
46:16upcoming competitive changes a couple
46:17weeks ago uh because it's really
46:19important to me that you know even even
46:20if they don't necessarily agree with
46:22every single change we make that they
46:23feel as though you know there's there's
46:25the opportunity for change to happen
46:27There's an opportunity for them to to
46:28hear or to to to speak you know with
46:31their minds so you know I think I think
46:33overall with that goal in mind we we've
46:35done a good job of that we can always do
46:36better um you know I'll always say that
46:38we can always do better uh but I think
46:40you know since certainly since like from
46:42when I started here to now I feel like
46:43we've we've done a good job with that I
46:46would like to think so anyways I could
46:47be wrong maybe I'm maybe I'm you know
46:49maybe I'm uh delusional but awesomeness
46:52is saying that the the colored UT titles
46:54were a good change but I distinctly
46:56remember people ha the color Duty change
46:58like there were people who got mad about
47:00that yeah it's really hard to please
47:03everyone but I I also like your your
47:06mental of like if you never hear
47:07somebody complain about it then it's
47:09universally liked well okay no that's
47:12twisting overs a little best I won't I
47:14won't assume that I I'll actually I will
47:16I'll go even further I won't assume that
47:17any change I make is ever like
47:19universally liked just because uh I I'm
47:23always someone who wants to strive to do
47:24more and better um I
47:27uh I tend to to want to I tend to hold
47:30myself to a higher standard and like I I
47:32definitely think that I could always be
47:33doing a better job than I am I think the
47:35team is doing a great job obviously but
47:37um no if if I don't hear feedback about
47:39something that's not automatically going
47:41to make it a good change it was it was
47:42more of a joke bit really but that's
47:44fair see honestly like the one thing
47:46that I was thinking about before this
47:48stream was I was like remember this is
47:49like actually something that's semi
47:50official just like don't meme it up and
47:54say anything dumb oh we can meme it up
47:56that's so I'm like oh no I twisted Roy's
47:59words they're never going to talk to me
48:00again man it's over no if anything I'll
48:02get in trouble not you oh perfect well
48:05in that
48:07case C did you have anything you wanted
48:09to add about like stuff you've done that
48:11people
48:11liked um honestly I think the things
48:14I've done that people like are mostly my
48:16communication things I think people
48:17enjoyed my retro blog and specifically
48:20my uh my stealing of the gliding U bug
48:24as yeah the fall damage STS yeah I I
48:27love fun data and when I would get the
48:30opportunity to share some of that stuff
48:31in our Communications this is like a
48:33great time for me personally and think
48:35everybody I talked to seem to really
48:37enjoy those um I would also say just
48:40kind of reiterating I think you know
48:42even our most positive changes will have
48:45detractors right this is this
48:47is even detractors that aren't in the
48:49world the world Community I think that's
48:51important to remember uh I'll give I'll
48:53give you a negative side of the ex you
48:55know stat selectable EX vendor
48:57definitely hurt the minstral market on
48:59uh on the trading post right so those
49:01players are going to have opinions about
49:03that I think it's good that they do
49:05right I think it's good for our team to
49:06remember that changes we make in our
49:09game mode don't just impact our game
49:10mode they they impact the entire game
49:13and PVE also exists spvp also exists
49:18exactly and like uh as the competitive
49:20producer I have to think about both PV
49:22uh both spvp and World be world but I
49:25you know I I try to also consider PVE
49:28and just make sure we're not negatively
49:30impacting those players I I try to take
49:31a Do no harm approach to most of our
49:33stuff um when I just as I think about
49:36the game that I want to improve things
49:38for players while having the least
49:40negative impact but you know it's it's
49:42development there's always going to be
49:44tradeoffs in things that you have to
49:46do yeah my my universally likeed thing
49:49is I I people really appreciate
49:51communication and I've been championing
49:54championing that a lot uh on our team
49:57yeah I think that's a a great kind of
50:00lesson and message to take away from it
50:01because I think it has been really
50:03appreciated even if people don't
50:04necessarily agree with what the changes
50:06are they like hearing like what the
50:08change is and maybe some of the
50:10rationale with it as
50:12well yeah and uh another thing that I
50:16know Chef is familiar that I do this but
50:18like um I try to play with lots of
50:20different world V World groups I just if
50:22you run at a regular time and uh have
50:26that posted somewhere publicly um I do
50:29try to jump in and join those players
50:31because it lets me experience the
50:34different you know you talked about the
50:35many different player types um there are
50:38way more than you even named right and
50:41it's it is incredibly challenging to
50:44always put my brain in those spaces
50:46without just going and experiencing it
50:48and so that's been a really fun thing
50:49I've been doing for the last pretty much
50:51year and a half two years uh where I'll
50:53just a couple of nights a week I will
50:55jump in and play with people and as I
50:57said I frequently play in ocx times and
51:00uh have a lot of experience in that time
51:02zone just because I have a really weird
51:04sleep schedule but yeah he's doing he's
51:05doing footage reviews at 3:00 a.m.
51:07there's no group he won't play with
51:09that's true uh and if yeah if you have a
51:11draft tournament that you would like me
51:13to participate in uh message me I'll
51:15I'll try it um I will probably cause a
51:18team to lose though that's that's my I'm
51:20not good at the game I just love it a
51:23lot so I kind of I I structured the
51:26first part of this uh conversation as
51:29you know restructuring specifically and
51:31then the the back half is more General
51:33game stuff and I was anticipating it go
51:35a little over an hour but it is
51:36currently 48 and we haven't made it to
51:38the back half yet um but I do kind of
51:41want to hit on some of the the bigger
51:43points that I had laid out and the first
51:45one is that we've we've seen a lot of
51:49changes to the World versus World
51:50environment over like the last two years
51:52or so uh quality of life changes
51:54structural changes scoring changes
51:56restruct coming out obviously what are
51:59some of the biggest uh structural
52:02challenges to the game mode that still
52:04exist some of like the biggest
52:06imbalances that you're looking at fixing
52:07some of the biggest issues that you want
52:09to work on
52:13improving so uh I think there's um it's
52:18kind of two things one um I we've we've
52:20we've been able to do I'd say a decent
52:23amount of the things that we kind of set
52:24out to or at least I set out to when I
52:25first joined the world world team which
52:27was a little over a year ago um and
52:32obviously World restructuring was of
52:33course a big one um but you know just
52:36releasing world structuring is enough
52:37like we've been saying there's changes
52:39to we want to make there's iterations we
52:41want to make um and you know I think I
52:45don't I don't know that that's
52:46necessarily going to change because
52:47again you know would would it be great
52:49if if one day we were like oh World
52:51restructuring is perfect oh we've we've
52:53we've cracked the code and every single
52:55player agreed with us that be amazing um
52:57but is that realistic maybe not so I
53:00think you know we're we're definitely
53:01going with the the idea of we have the
53:04system in place uh you know we're going
53:06to continue to try to make it better and
53:08make tweaks to it um and it's the same
53:10thing with with other changes that we've
53:11made like content Focus changes um the
53:13scoring changes that partially went out
53:15this week and that will be finished uh
53:16going out on Friday uh are kind of the
53:18same thing where you know these These
53:20are the first real scoring changes we've
53:22had to the game mode
53:24in I want to say maybe ever uh I can't
53:27really think off the top of my head of
53:28of other you know real significant
53:30scoring changes that have happened
53:31outside of when uh skirmishes first got
53:33introduced it's either since the
53:35addition of PPK or the transition to one
53:38up one down when Glo got removed I think
53:40it's probably either of those yeah
53:42that's I mean yeah I guess I guess uh
53:44that's kind of yeah you could you you
53:46should definitely call that scoring I
53:47guess I was thinking more along that's
53:49more along the lines of like matchup
53:51structure so last change would have been
53:53like shifting off Glo in what 2017 that
53:55was yeah yeah yeah yeah um and so you
53:58know so we're we're trying we're trying
54:00the changes out um and obviously we've
54:01seen a lot of feedback both positive and
54:03negative around it um it's it's the
54:05first time we're we're trying these uh
54:07and I you know I said this on the stream
54:08that we did a couple weeks ago a lot of
54:10these numbers are not numbers that were
54:12like sold on 100% at the gate there's a
54:14good chance that you know we're not
54:16going to hit we're not going to just hit
54:17the right numbers immediately um and we
54:19you know we're going to need itate on
54:20them um whether that's just changing
54:22numbers whether that's changing um the
54:24amount of buckets we're using uh that's
54:26whether that's changing the amount of uh
54:29or you know the way that we're we're
54:31changing numbers and distributing
54:32numbers you know whatever whatever that
54:33might be um maybe we need to pull back
54:35on changing the war score for objectives
54:37maybe we need to pull back on the PPK
54:38change maybe we need to pull back on the
54:40p uh the VP change whatever that might
54:42be that that'll continue to be iterated
54:43on um and so I
54:46think what like the overall goal and I
54:48again said this a couple couple weeks
54:50ago on that stream uh we definitely want
54:52to focus on um incentivizing winning uh
54:54making winning matter giving players a
54:56reason to care about winning care about
54:57matchups uh care about fighting for
54:59their uh battle Guild now or or you know
55:02their team they are officially called
55:04battle guilds now that's correct yes um
55:08and uh you know and I think I think
55:09we're in a much better place to do that
55:11um I I personally didn't really think
55:13that we should um you know try to to
55:17start moving in that direction um you
55:19know until until we had scoring address
55:21just because I think you know one of the
55:22reasons that Seasons got pulled away
55:24from you you mentioned this earlier on
55:26in this stream um you know the the
55:28development team at the time was worried
55:29about player burnout um players
55:31overextending themselves um you know we
55:33saw unhealthy behaviors uh you know
55:36earlier on or rather I should say the
55:38other developers the previous developers
55:39saw unhealthy behaviors and as a player
55:41I saw unhealthy behaviors and I I even
55:43did some of those unhealthy behaviors uh
55:45as a player um to to try to win uh and
55:48so you know we want to we want to set
55:49World versus World up to a place to be a
55:52place that you know you're not going to
55:53just play 24/7 for a week and then not
55:56play for weeks or for months on end or
55:58possibly like ever again as was the case
56:01with a lot of people postseasons where
56:02they're like I I did like 24-hour raids
56:05I can't play this game anymore I'm just
56:07leaving and you know but yeah and and so
56:11you know we we want to put it we want to
56:12get into to a place where you know it
56:14feels like you can you can play and you
56:16have a goal you know we want the goal to
56:18be to win we want the goal to be for
56:20players to work together and and and and
56:22work as servers but again in a healthy
56:24way and so I think um there were a lot
56:27of quality life changes that we made to
56:29make uh playing the game mode feel
56:31better and feel healthier um scoring
56:33scoring is a big part of of that uh in
56:35sort of a larger way as well uh and
56:37again all those things need to be
56:38iterated on whether that's changing the
56:40supply cost of an eror cart whether
56:41that's changing the uh point value of a
56:44um of a skirmish you know whatever it
56:46might be those are things that need to
56:48continue to be iterated on U But
56:49ultimately yeah we want to work towards
56:51um incentivizing winning making winning
56:53matter uh and we're definitely setting
56:56ourselves up to be in a better place to
56:57start doing that um and so that's that's
56:59going to be the sort of again what we're
57:01looking at moving forward with again in
57:03mind keeping an eye on the changes we've
57:05put out and and how we can continue to
57:07to iterate on those and make those
57:09better yeah I would say uh a lot of the
57:13stuff we're doing right now is
57:14systemically in support of that idea of
57:17you know making winning matter in a
57:19competitive game mode uh and one thing
57:21I'll add to that is something that we
57:24talk about a fair amount is the a of uh
57:27shared player goals uh in winning
57:30matters one thing we hope winning
57:32matters will have uh an effect on the
57:35community is that all of those different
57:38scales and types of players will be more
57:41aligned in the things that they want to
57:43do um or more accurately that the things
57:45they want to do contribute to the same
57:49mindset um we're you you see this
57:53problem uh occur specifically a
57:55communication like social problem occur
57:58when you know for example a team wants
58:01to drop down AER to get better fights
58:03verus always trying to win um you you
58:06get that that inconsistency of
58:08competitive play and so that's just an
58:11important thing to us is we want people
58:12to you know sort of want the same things
58:15and we want so incentivizing those
58:17things getting people to uh understand
58:20their common goals a little better as
58:22part of when he matters yeah I I love
58:25that I think there's 's at times a lot
58:27of animosity between things like you
58:28know Scouts rors PPT guilds and PP PPK
58:32guilds because they all kind of what
58:35what's fun in World versus World for
58:37them is kind of different for each of
58:38those four communities they're all kind
58:39of looking for slightly different things
58:41and there's no kind of unifying goal
58:45that pulls everyone together to work for
58:47a shared objective because you know
58:49winning kind of isn't really
58:50incentivized that heavily and I I
58:52totally agree with the way that you guys
58:53are talking about it in that you know if
58:56you had some kind of carrot on a stick
58:58for doing well in a matchup that you
59:01would incentivize some of those
59:02different groups of players to want to
59:04work together play together and and
59:06contribute to some shared goals because
59:08you'd all kind of get something out of
59:10it that you all
59:11want yeah you you said a really
59:13important there thing there that I want
59:15to distinguish right it's not always
59:18about incentivizing you to do a thing by
59:21putting a carrot on a stick it a lot of
59:23times it is about a aligning what you
59:26get out of the thing what you get out of
59:29your fun is aligned with the things
59:32other people want right so um I
59:35personally believe that like the uh the
59:38recent adjustment uh the Roy made to PPK
59:41Right Moving uh points per Kill from two
59:43to three is better
59:46aligning fight Guild success with the
59:51goal of getting War score in a matchup
59:53right and there's more we need to do
59:55there but that that is is the kind of
59:57thing where it's like we want your fun
59:59to be recognized by the system you know
01:00:03gotcha sorry I'm fighting for my life
01:00:06I'm good yeah that's a that's a good
01:00:08it's a good distinction to
01:00:10make cuz I I think that a lot of a lot
01:00:13of those communities kind of feel um you
01:00:17know slighted sometimes by the fact that
01:00:19the majority of the player base tends to
01:00:21take kind of this Zerg oriented
01:00:23approach and what they enjoy doesn't
01:00:26always feel prioritized because
01:00:28everybody around them like not talking
01:00:29about what anet does necessarily just
01:00:31talking about the mentality of the
01:00:33player base like the majority of players
01:00:35are in groups and they're fighting to
01:00:37either win a matchup or defeat another
01:00:39Zer so you know giving giving these
01:00:42different communities kind of different
01:00:44Avenues to to contribute and have their
01:00:46own fun I think is a a positive
01:00:49development
01:00:51yep there has also been a bunch of
01:00:54questions about uh rewards and I don't
01:00:57necessarily in fact I'm almost positive
01:01:00that you guys aren't going to be able to
01:01:02talk about what kind of ideas you have
01:01:03in the pipeline for making rewards
01:01:06matter but are there other kind of
01:01:08reward structures that exist in World
01:01:10versus World things like uh the
01:01:13legendary armor or the Mist trinkets or
01:01:16things like that that might be due for a
01:01:18bit of a rebalance the same way that we
01:01:20got Dugan added as a currency sync and
01:01:22the way that we got an exotic armor
01:01:24vendor and the way that we got a new um
01:01:28just in this last patch recipe for
01:01:30unlocking some new ascended weapons are
01:01:33there different kind of corners of World
01:01:34versus World that maybe haven't been
01:01:36touched in a while and are looking a bit
01:01:38outdated that you guys have flagged as
01:01:40something to get iterated on in the
01:01:43future I don't think we have anything in
01:01:45that area necessarily to talk about
01:01:47other than like you know rewards and
01:01:49acquisition is always something we're
01:01:50just thinking about with any new update
01:01:52is like are there adjustments that we
01:01:54should make here um um Roy do you have
01:01:57anything on list for that I mean you're
01:02:01right that we probably can't talk about
01:02:02specifics uh yeah you know I'll say this
01:02:07is what I'll say so you mentioned Dugan
01:02:09we talked about Dugan a couple times um
01:02:11that was in response to a problem that
01:02:13has existed for a while right which is
01:02:15that World versus World players have a
01:02:17lot of different World versus World
01:02:18currencies they don't really have a lot
01:02:19of things to spend those currencies on
01:02:21especially once they've gotten you know
01:02:23well geared up um so you know maybe for
01:02:26like a player who's kind of newer to the
01:02:27game who's getting into World versus
01:02:28World for the first time they don't have
01:02:30a lot of those currencies they've got
01:02:31more things to spend spend their tickets
01:02:33on and what not that's great for someone
01:02:34who's been playing the game mode for a
01:02:35while uh you know maybe they have uh
01:02:37880,000 tickets built up and they don't
01:02:39have anything to spend them on and
01:02:40that's obviously a lot so that that's
01:02:41that's a problem that is very clear it's
01:02:43a problem that has existed um we've done
01:02:46other things besides just Duan but yeah
01:02:47Duan is a good example adding that
01:02:48vendor is a good example of us trying to
01:02:50solve that problem um and I'll just say
01:02:53you know there are other problems that
01:02:55exist and you know that that problem
01:02:57still exists in some in some sense right
01:02:59like that that Merchant alone wasn't
01:03:01enough to you know completely um fix you
01:03:04know it wasn't enough of a currency s
01:03:07remove all the currencies not that that
01:03:08should be the goal either but um you
01:03:10know we can always improve on that and I
01:03:12think just like just like that if there
01:03:14are other issues that that exist if
01:03:16there are other problems related to
01:03:17rewards that exist um then those are
01:03:20things that we are going to eventually
01:03:21want to try and solve if we think that
01:03:23those are problems um if we think those
01:03:25are issues and that's obviously not a
01:03:28maybe not a helpful answer again not
01:03:29very specific but yeah you know I I'm
01:03:31not going to say like no we're not going
01:03:33to we're never going to do anything more
01:03:34with rewards no we're never going to
01:03:35look at you know legendary acquisition
01:03:37structure uh with World versus World
01:03:39Avenues to unlock trinkets things like
01:03:41that since that's the big missing one
01:03:42right now yeah if there's if there's a
01:03:44problem that exists in the game mode uh
01:03:46at some point uh or another if again if
01:03:49we think it is a problem we're probably
01:03:51going to try and address it uh in some
01:03:53way um and just like Dugan if it if it
01:03:57worked that's awesome if we feel like
01:03:58maybe there's more that we could do then
01:04:00we will continue to do that as with
01:04:01everything
01:04:02else yeah I think one thing I think a
01:04:04lot about just in our game mode in
01:04:07general uh is
01:04:10like guiding people through our game
01:04:12mode like wanting to attach uh you know
01:04:18increase Simplicity make things more
01:04:20obvious about the things that you want
01:04:22to purchase like I think legendaries
01:04:24become a really common sticking point
01:04:26because it is an
01:04:27obvious uh quality of life Improvement
01:04:30once you have legendary it's a it's a
01:04:32great Chase goal um it's very obvious
01:04:34for players to want those things there
01:04:36are lots of really necessary things to
01:04:38play in our game mode that like the
01:04:39average player won't be aware of and
01:04:41just making those surfacing those things
01:04:43making them more obvious for players and
01:04:45then sinking some currency around out uh
01:04:48especially out of veteran players with
01:04:49them is very important to us so we
01:04:52always like I love getting that feedback
01:04:53anywhere you can reach me especially the
01:04:55Forum I read the forums all the time if
01:04:57you have ideas for things you would like
01:04:59to see um you know added to world view
01:05:03world is more you know more currency SS
01:05:05for us it's always really useful
01:05:07feedback even if we don't do the exact
01:05:09thing it gives us the idea of the thing
01:05:11you're looking at in those systems yeah
01:05:14I can't I can't over like yeah sorry uh
01:05:16just you know just go piggy back up what
01:05:18C was saying please please definitely
01:05:20make sure I mean we say this on every
01:05:21bound stream make sure you're giving us
01:05:23your feedback I do read the forums I
01:05:24rdit I read a lot of discords that I'm
01:05:26in pretty much every single day um and
01:05:31uh yeah so you definitely make sure
01:05:32you're you're you're giving your
01:05:34feedback um and uh you know saying
01:05:36saying what you would like saying what
01:05:37you like about a change saying what you
01:05:38dislike about a change um you know in
01:05:41those places um because there's a pretty
01:05:42good chance that I'll see it uh and
01:05:44obviously you know that doesn't mean
01:05:45that it's going to happen immediately
01:05:46that doesn't mean that it's going to
01:05:48happen but you know until you know we
01:05:50get that feedback um or when we get that
01:05:52feedback it's a lot easier for us to to
01:05:54work with feedback than than but um yeah
01:05:57sorry go ahead
01:05:58Chef uh God what was I going to say oh
01:06:01yeah I was going to say there's a
01:06:02there's a bunch of people have asked
01:06:03like very specific questions about World
01:06:04versus World rewards and if I you know
01:06:07ran through all of them it' be 30
01:06:08minutes like legendary Rune sigils
01:06:10legendary trinkets can I get X can I get
01:06:12y yeah if we're not going to be able to
01:06:14get to every single one of them but the
01:06:15forums are a great place to put that of
01:06:17like hey it would be nice if there's an
01:06:18Avenue to get x out of World versus
01:06:20World yeah always appreciate that
01:06:22feedback we're not going to be able to
01:06:24discuss the specifics of any those plans
01:06:26on this stream so like that's this is a
01:06:28this is a little bit more of a passle
01:06:30game stream I would say like talking
01:06:32about existing
01:06:35development obviously we have some some
01:06:38vague uh planned sentences for the
01:06:40future that we can share you know such
01:06:42as as wanting to make Mone matters and
01:06:45such yeah I also a lot of people talking
01:06:48about balance just to reiterate this is
01:06:50something that I said to the stream
01:06:52before I had you guys hop on this is
01:06:53explicitly not a profession balance
01:06:55stream
01:06:56we're kind of talking about World versus
01:06:57World generally just yeah I'll say it um
01:07:02is not on the yeah neither C Cil or I uh
01:07:06bounce the game at all uh which I know
01:07:09is is definitely a bit of a
01:07:10misconception because I have previously
01:07:13been running the balce streams um so you
01:07:16know of course it would stand to reason
01:07:17that players would think that I'm on the
01:07:19balance team that makes sense but I am
01:07:20in fact not on the balce team not only
01:07:22am I not on the balance team I was even
01:07:24farther away from balance when I first
01:07:25started running those streams cuz I was
01:07:27on the rewards team I wasn't even on the
01:07:29competitive team working on world short
01:07:30at the time just a good bit of lore
01:07:34there yeah go ahead to reiterate that a
01:07:37little bit like we are always happy to
01:07:39get balance feedback but you just need
01:07:42to have the understanding that we are
01:07:43not the decision makers in Balance uh
01:07:46happy to pass along feedback I do this
01:07:47for players all the time I play a lot of
01:07:48structur PVP as well uh players will hit
01:07:51me with bug information or um you know
01:07:54their opinions on current meta and stuff
01:07:56and I'm always happy to share that with
01:07:58the skills and balance team uh but it's
01:08:00just not an area where we have any
01:08:02Authority or decision making
01:08:04power so what I was going to say is uh M
01:08:07actually asked a really good question in
01:08:08chat about no down stake wheat and uh
01:08:10Golem Rush do you have any information
01:08:14that you can share about whether we'll
01:08:17ever see a return to events in World
01:08:20versus World and whether they might be
01:08:21put on some kind of like rotating
01:08:24calendar to maybe Co side with holidays
01:08:26or festivals or things like
01:08:29that it would be nice to see more of
01:08:32those uh those event returns every once
01:08:34in a
01:08:35while yeah I mean you know again not
01:08:38going to commit to anything here
01:08:39obviously I I would certainly say it's
01:08:41not out of the question
01:08:43to uh think that we'll ever see those
01:08:46events again um I
01:08:49think yeah I mean without getting into
01:08:51too much there's not necessarily like
01:08:52it's not it's not as though we we have
01:08:54decided that those were bad or something
01:08:56you know that's not necessarily why we
01:08:57haven't been doing them um and yeah
01:08:59there's no reason to think that we we
01:09:00couldn't do them again in the future um
01:09:04yeah you know I just there's no we're
01:09:06not uh going to commit to any of that
01:09:07sort of stuff right now I don't think
01:09:10yeah I would say Roy and I book big fans
01:09:12of of uh events like that in general as
01:09:15you know exciting Roy may not be a fan
01:09:18of the specific ones you mentioned but
01:09:20uh the idea of events of that type are
01:09:23definitely something we're interested in
01:09:26not always a development priority the
01:09:27times that you've stopped by my streams
01:09:29I've given you no shortage of ideas for
01:09:31like you know killer uh week event ideas
01:09:35so you've got a huge backlog just from
01:09:38those yeah everybody all them have been
01:09:40good your bad event ideas I love hearing
01:09:43them they're actually some of my
01:09:44favorite things I I consider myself in
01:09:46many ways to be an ideas man in that I
01:09:49don't really have like any other
01:09:50marketable skills or talents I'm just
01:09:52coming up with ideas
01:09:55uh and then I we are like 10 minutes
01:09:57over uh but I I want to I want to poke
01:09:59it one or two more quick questions and
01:10:01then we'll probably wrap up um I know
01:10:04that there's been a lot of like
01:10:06conversation discussion about the way
01:10:09that defense events are changing and the
01:10:11way that Siege is changing in particular
01:10:14um that element of the game is is kind
01:10:16of in flux and the existence of Siege in
01:10:19the first place is you know one of the
01:10:22things that kind of defines World versus
01:10:23World and makes it this unique game mode
01:10:25is that you have these things that you
01:10:27can build you have destructible walls
01:10:28you have destructible Gates um to the
01:10:31extent that you can what is kind of your
01:10:34design philosophy around what Siege
01:10:36should do for the game mode and how it
01:10:38should be used that's driving a lot of
01:10:41those changes and
01:10:45modifications
01:10:46um
01:10:49so I think that
01:10:55do you want me to try and kick you off
01:10:56cuz I've kind of I've read into it a bit
01:10:58and I think what it seems like to me is
01:11:00that it's a it's a prioritization of
01:11:02Defense being an active event that takes
01:11:04place between players rather than being
01:11:06a passive event that takes place between
01:11:08a player and a static game defined
01:11:11objective like a wall or an NPC Etc
01:11:14that's at least how it reads to me with
01:11:15like the the structural and
01:11:17vulnerability changing being a dampening
01:11:19effect rather than an immune with the uh
01:11:23disabler change being a reduction in
01:11:25Effectiveness and making ceg easier to
01:11:27kill it seems like one of those things
01:11:29that's like it it incentivizes players
01:11:32responding to an objective that's being
01:11:33attacked but if it's an attacking group
01:11:36trying to break into an empty objective
01:11:38that has no active player Defenders it's
01:11:40really like not a change at all it
01:11:43doesn't make any difference for
01:11:45them so uh yeah so what I was you know I
01:11:49was I'm mostly just trying to find the
01:11:51right words to say what I want to say
01:11:53more than not necessarily knowing what I
01:11:55want to say which I think kind of what
01:11:57you were touching upon yeah we want we
01:11:59want the engagements you know across the
01:12:02game mode to be active ones um you know
01:12:05I think you know in general it is meant
01:12:07to be a player versus player game mode
01:12:10um at its at its route uh and so
01:12:12obviously you know we want to encourage
01:12:14player versus player interactions that's
01:12:16not to say that you know I I think if
01:12:18you can um successfully maneuver out
01:12:22maneuver players um and you know avoid
01:12:24avoid them and and you know take their
01:12:26objectives without them knowing then
01:12:28that's just credit to you you know if
01:12:30you know for whatever reason if you
01:12:33they're not scouting properly or or
01:12:34you're just you know doing a good enough
01:12:36job to to help maneuver them then I
01:12:37think that's credit to to you and you
01:12:39should be rewarded for that um yeah you
01:12:41know I think primarily when we're
01:12:43talking about what I'll say like an
01:12:46actively defended structure versus an
01:12:48actively attacking group so when when
01:12:50there's you know a group of players
01:12:51trying to get into a structure trying to
01:12:53flip that structure um versus is a group
01:12:55of players trying to stop actively
01:12:56trying to stop them we want both sides
01:12:58to feel like they have tools to use we
01:13:00want both sides to feel like um you know
01:13:03what they're doing is engaging and fun
01:13:05um and not to feel like they are
01:13:07basically being denied um you know a
01:13:11chance to a do what they're do what
01:13:13they're trying to do and also um you
01:13:16know en enjoy what they're doing uh and
01:13:18so yeah the change with um like you know
01:13:22structural Integrity uh where um you
01:13:25know before it completely denied any
01:13:27damage well you know that that really
01:13:29shut down you know a siege for a
01:13:32specific amount of time and so you know
01:13:33we looked at that and we felt kind of
01:13:35like that wasn't really the behavior we
01:13:37wanted to see we want you know players
01:13:38to not feel like they're going to have
01:13:40to stand around for a minute doing
01:13:41nothing um especially if there's nothing
01:13:43in that objective that's actually
01:13:45threatening you it's just you know
01:13:47sitting on your hands for like a minute
01:13:49because your siege doesn't work
01:13:51absolutely um and you know same thing
01:13:54same thing with Siege B both offensive
01:13:55sieges and defensive SI and talked about
01:13:57this a little bit on
01:13:59um the stream that we did a couple weeks
01:14:01ago you know we primarily we're looking
01:14:03at what we considered a more defensive
01:14:04seed which a carts and trebuchet um and
01:14:07obviously trebuchet can be used pretty
01:14:08offensively as well and you know I think
01:14:10with the reduction in supply cost we're
01:14:11probably seeing that a little bit more
01:14:12often um now uh but you know we want we
01:14:16want Siege both offensively and
01:14:17defensively to feel uh as though it has
01:14:19a use and has a purpose uh and there's
01:14:22certainly more work to be done on that
01:14:23you know I'm not going to claim that a
01:14:25cost reduction in aor karts and
01:14:26trebuchet has made all seem perfect now
01:14:28um yeah it's it's it's going along the
01:14:31same route where we want players on both
01:14:34sides of the equation to have tools uh
01:14:36you know to use we want players on both
01:14:38sides of the equation to feel as though
01:14:39they're empowered to play the game you
01:14:41know Play Play that defense or offense
01:14:44um you know we don't want one side to be
01:14:46just like washing out the other all the
01:14:47time um and so that's that's what a lot
01:14:50of the changes both back and forth have
01:14:51been kind of aimed at
01:14:56cool yeah I would say one thing I think
01:14:58I think about on this in this specific
01:15:00case is also just like we want you to
01:15:02use your buttons right we want you
01:15:05to uh not have as much time of your game
01:15:08just be standing around waiting on a
01:15:10given thing to happen uh and that that's
01:15:13a thing we think about a lot it's not
01:15:14the easiest fix to make by any means but
01:15:18uh good
01:15:19to good to encourage players to press
01:15:21buttons you know yeah for sure so I've
01:15:24noticed that this squad is currently led
01:15:26by a player named uh senap so Cecil I
01:15:29think you in
01:15:30particular um have a a commitment that
01:15:33you now need to get to and I've I've
01:15:34used up all your time available and also
01:15:37we're 12 minutes over when I have wanted
01:15:39to have it run anyway but um yeah I
01:15:42appreciate you guys you know agreeing to
01:15:43this and coming to to chat a bit about
01:15:46you know where you see the development
01:15:48of the game mode going and some of the
01:15:50history of it some of the issues that
01:15:51you've identified stuff like that I will
01:15:54say uh for people in chat who asked a
01:15:56question that I didn't ask Roy or Cil
01:16:00it's probably because it was a little
01:16:03too specific or it was about future
01:16:05plans for the game and I just kind of I
01:16:07know from previous experience that those
01:16:09are questions that are unlikely to get a
01:16:11straight answer because you know nobody
01:16:13wants to give away the stuff that
01:16:14they're working on but the the forums
01:16:17are a great venue for initiating this
01:16:18kind of conversations if it's something
01:16:20that you really want to know I will also
01:16:23say fortunately for you um awesomeness
01:16:26uh can ask me at any point his questions
01:16:28since yeah uh they're they're our
01:16:30coworker uh and also uh it's Captain
01:16:34John actually uh dm'd me on Discord an
01:16:37hour ago the same question he asked you
01:16:38in chat so um you know it's uh those
01:16:42questions are are being seen don't worry
01:16:43I you know there's other venues
01:16:45available yes yes I do want to answer uh
01:16:48one question I saw come up a couple
01:16:50times which is about the CU buug um
01:16:54cubbug if if you did not read my blog
01:16:58from quite a while ago at this point
01:16:59from our previous World structuring beta
01:17:02uh the cbug was something that was
01:17:04increased and is currently increased by
01:17:07the action you know the the fact that
01:17:10world restructuring is on uh that's
01:17:12actively being worked on so uh the CU
01:17:14buug is under investigation uh there's
01:17:17engineering resources dedicated to
01:17:20solving that issue it's just slow uh we
01:17:23have a very complex game and some the
01:17:26things like that are actually have been
01:17:28proven really difficult to think um so
01:17:31yes it is actively ongoing I would say
01:17:34uh just to reiterate a point from that
01:17:36blog that is one of the reasons we
01:17:38increased the tiers in each region uh
01:17:40was to address you know lower the impact
01:17:43of that Cub make less cues
01:17:46overall um the yeah I know there was a
01:17:50period as well where you're like you
01:17:51know we want to fix this before we
01:17:53release the restructuring system system
01:17:55and I'm you know not to be negative
01:17:58about it but I'm I'm glad that you
01:17:59decided not to do that cuz the cubg has
01:18:01existed
01:18:03forever yes it seems like going to be
01:18:05really hard to narrow down we're trying
01:18:07to solve two things right there is the
01:18:10the specific aspect of the cbug that is
01:18:12made worse by World restructuring that's
01:18:14the thing we were trying to solve before
01:18:16launching World restructuring and we
01:18:18elected that it it was going to take
01:18:20more time than we were willing to hold
01:18:23uh the launch because as I said earlier
01:18:25launching the system gives us a lot of
01:18:27important live data to iterate further
01:18:29on the system um so that's that was an
01:18:32an important factor in us making that
01:18:34decision uh but yeah it is we're not
01:18:37done with it it's an active
01:18:38investigation we're continuing to work
01:18:40on it and I would say on the tiers
01:18:42specific tiers aspect that is just
01:18:44another aspect of the system that we're
01:18:47always observing um you know we are
01:18:50looking at the population across the
01:18:51time zones we are discussing do we need
01:18:54have these tiers these These are always
01:18:56things that are on the table to change
01:18:58at any given team creation and what
01:19:01we've done that I'm very happy with is
01:19:03we've given ourselves a very I would say
01:19:05simple but a very identifiable point to
01:19:09make those kind of structural changes to
01:19:11the game mode we can do it basically on
01:19:13each team creation we can make that
01:19:15call and that's a that's a human
01:19:18initiated process as well right that's
01:19:19not like an algorithm deciding how many
01:19:20tiers there's going to be correct
01:19:23correct yeah
01:19:25how many how many there are based on
01:19:28quite a lot of data that we put pull
01:19:30together around
01:19:32world I am super not looking at my supp
01:19:34no it's okay I'm taking care of you
01:19:35don't worry I got you I'm giving you
01:19:37barrier like when it's
01:19:39available which is not that often but
01:19:41I'm
01:19:42helping any other questions that you
01:19:45that you guys noticed in chat that that
01:19:46I happen to miss cuz I think we've all
01:19:48kind of been looking at a lot of
01:19:49different things going on at the same
01:19:50time um I wasn't I wasn't watching chat
01:19:53a ton this to be honest um so I I don't
01:19:57really know um there weren't specific
01:20:00questions that I would look to um all
01:20:02I'll say is I I welcome opportunities
01:20:04like this to to come and chat with
01:20:05people um and I mean I'm I'm always
01:20:08happy to talk to people wherever they
01:20:10may be able to find a way to talk to me
01:20:14uh and like I said I I really do you
01:20:15know promise that like I you know I'm
01:20:16keeping an eye on Reddit and the forums
01:20:18like any time I see some sort of World
01:20:19versus World post on Reddit I I open it
01:20:21up and I read through the comments um
01:20:23you know I try and keep an eye on like
01:20:24new topics on World versus World uh the
01:20:26world world section the forums um you
01:20:28know I I it really is important to me to
01:20:31um try and and get a sense of of what
01:20:33the community is feeling um like Cil
01:20:36said before you know there have been
01:20:37points where I've been trying to play
01:20:38with a lot of different groups in World
01:20:39versus World I haven't had as much time
01:20:41to play recently but hopefully I can I
01:20:43can start that up again uh but at the
01:20:44end of the day the the main thing is I
01:20:45just you know I want to um definitely be
01:20:49making good changes for the community um
01:20:51and and for the game mode as a whole uh
01:20:53and so you know I I welcome any and all
01:20:55feedback any and all discourse um from
01:20:56players and from the community um you
01:20:59know I I would like to think I am at the
01:21:02disposal of of said community and
01:21:03players uh and so uh yeah please feel
01:21:06free to uh to to reach out or or post
01:21:08feedback through various forms um if you
01:21:12want to and obviously Chef thank you
01:21:14very much for having us on your stream
01:21:15and being a wonderful host it's been uh
01:21:18fun
01:21:20man it's been a good time
01:21:26thank you thank you tag everyone say
01:21:27thank you thank you to our tag people
01:21:29don't thank public tags often enough
01:21:31although I'm realizing I forgot to think
01:21:32the previous two public tag so I'm kind
01:21:34of the [Â __Â ] now you're perpetuating
01:21:37the problem yeah yeah look nobody's
01:21:40perfect I'll I'll go back I'll watch the
01:21:43VOD figure out who it was send them a
01:21:44mail be like thanks for tag it was a
01:21:46good
01:21:47time yeah thanks for thanks for hanging
01:21:50out I hope you guys have a have a good
01:21:51rest of your week I hope you have a a
01:21:52good weekend and you know we'll see you
01:21:54around on forums we'll see you around on
01:21:55balance streams and we'll see you around
01:21:57on maps every once in a
01:21:59while yeah all right awesome thanks so
01:22:02much have a good one yeah you guys too
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