00:16so gabriel tell us why should we go
00:18hyper casual rather than indy i will uh
00:21hand over to you so go for it
00:25thank you oscar thanks for having me
00:27allow me to share my screen
00:36um i hope you all can see my screen
00:43um i'm gabriel and i'm here to tell you
00:48traditional quote-unquote um indie games
00:52uh so a little bit about myself
00:55um i have been i'm the head of design at
00:59i've been five years in hyper casual
01:02not even sure how how old that genre is
01:05but it isn't much older than that and
01:07i'm not even sure if we called it hyper
01:10if that term even existed um and what's
01:14maybe relevant to this talk i've started
01:16out as a solo developer like i
01:18had my own little studio self-funded so
01:22be relevant later um a little bit about
01:26we are based in beautiful lemington spa
01:30uh we are growing really really quickly
01:33like we have a new teams in
01:35bangalore in india being scaled in
01:39in turkey um we our games have
01:43reached almost half a billion downloads
01:46staggering like a significant portion of
01:48the world's population has played our
01:51is mind-blowing and we are the uk's
01:54uk's biggest hyper-casual games
01:56publisher we publish games from external
01:59and we develop our own games um
02:02so just for those who might not be that
02:05familiar with hyper casual games or what
02:06are hyper casual games
02:08it's uh if you if you go on your phone
02:11open the app store or the google play
02:13store you go to the game charts
02:15scroll to the top usually you'll see a
02:17lot of hyper casual games there
02:18those are these simple approachable
02:22they're free so so we make our most of
02:25our money through ads
02:26um and in order in order to do that
02:30we um need to reach a very wide
02:32demographic so it's really interesting
02:34when we look at our analytics data we
02:37uh from from little kids to
02:41uh pensioners basically playing our
02:44believe hyper casual games are the genre
02:46that reaches the widest possible
02:48audience i could be wrong
02:51which which makes hyper casual games
02:54in that sense and yeah
02:57who is this talk for it's uh this talk
03:00is for anyone who wants to make their
03:03who think who likes to play games from
03:06i want to i want to do that i want to
03:08bring i want to show my creativity to
03:11and maybe you're a student who has just
03:15kind of game design game programming
03:19uh maybe you're a hobbyist uh maybe
03:23gone through a few unity tutorials and
03:26you think oh i want to
03:28give this a try and this talk is for you
03:32so where do people go to most of the
03:35want to do their own thing it's what i
03:38said like quote unquote traditional
03:40indie games like stuff you'd see on
03:43steam is steam is big for that
03:45and um i can clearly see why those are
03:48those games are amazing
03:50uh everybody loves to play them and
03:52people obviously want to
03:53make stuff that they like to play
03:56uh there there's uh the the amount of
04:00genres and the create
04:01creativity you can bring into these
04:04which is very very appealing you you're
04:08by any rules that maybe like traditional
04:11and last but not least there's also
04:15fame and fortune of bedroom developers
04:18for years on their on their games and
04:21and suddenly getting
04:25having a huge success with them becoming
04:28millionaires overnight um having their
04:32printed in in game magazines and whatnot
04:36like these stories are
04:37certainly appealing to to some people at
04:40and um what i'm here to tell you is
04:42basically hyper casuals
04:44working on hyper casual games offers all
04:47of that and then some
04:48and has some distinct advantages um
04:51which i'll get into in detail in this
04:55um so an important aspect is of course
04:58the creativity like you
05:00if you're a creative thinker if you're a
05:01creative person you want to express
05:04you don't want to be you don't want to
05:08by boundaries by by certain rule sets
05:11uh you you uh and and i'm here to tell
05:14hyper casual games are probably the more
05:18most diverse genre of games there are
05:21countless sub-genres there are new ones
05:23being discovered constantly and just to
05:26sort of a quick uh um
05:29a quick glimpse into our portfolio what
05:33made in in recent times uh for example
05:36this game it's called overtake
05:38which is a game sort of like a racing
05:40game but you're more racing against
05:43really fun game uh bake it this is a
05:46pastry baking simulator essentially
05:49this is a sharpshooter blitz basically a
05:53first person shooter in a in a
05:55simplified hyper-casual format really
05:58we've published that recently was
06:00developed by an external developer
06:02amazing game one of our big hit games is
06:06it's a basically pictionary as a mobile
06:09uh was a huge success for us uh made
06:13uh off the rails 3d here you get to be a
06:17this is a very very recent release they
06:20stay tuned to to to see more of that one
06:23called blade forge and uh you make
06:27you make swords and then you get to use
06:28them in sort of a competition a really
06:32game this one is a top three in the
06:35charts at the moment
06:36uh called teacher simulator is you play
06:39as a teacher but it's actually
06:40more of a trivia game uh but packaged in
06:44a really appealing format
06:46uh this is big battle 3d a game we
06:49last year was it was a big hit for us
06:52one was reminiscent of like uh real-time
06:56genre which i really love on pc and and
06:59this game sort of scratches that age
07:02another one of our recent hits let's be
07:04cops you get to play as a
07:05traffic police uh officer this is a
07:09looper this looks completely different
07:10like minimalist aesthetic it's a rhythm
07:14uh timing game very arcady very fun has
07:20you should check it out this is another
07:22one of our recent hits it's called sneak
07:25thief 3d and it's a first person stealth
07:28game believe it or not
07:30so you see this very wide range of
07:33genres we can have um and the creativity
07:38to making the games themselves like this
07:40is just a behind-the-scenes
07:42view of sneak teeth 3d and you can see
07:45the complexity of the levels we made
07:47like i started making games as
07:49in the in the half-life and
07:51counter-strike modding community i used
07:53to make half-life mods and
07:56counter-strike maps and when we worked
07:58on sneak thief like i had total
08:00flashbacks and working on these maps
08:03uh if you if you're uh if level design
08:07uh hyper casual games certainly can
08:11that as well um and uh we like to say
08:14that quality working on hyper casual
08:16games is like doing a game jam every day
08:18because we are working on
08:19so many varied games and and the sky is
08:23another thing i really like about
08:24hypercash games is that uh
08:30goes above everything else doesn't
08:33presentation doesn't mean that
08:36presentation doesn't matter
08:37but uh it's if you have a fun game
08:41and it's truly fun to play and it's also
08:45it's not a clone or anything like that
08:47you you're very likely to have a
08:49to have a hit game on your hands uh
08:52especially if it also looks fun to play
08:53if you can see the video and see oh yeah
08:55that that looks fun to play i want to
08:58and all that stuff that matters more in
09:01aaa games and even indie games like
09:03graphics and story and character and
09:06ip like we have the marvel franchise
09:10stuff like that it doesn't really matter
09:12in hypercast games it's a
09:13so it's a really pure
09:16genre if i say like in the sense that
09:18it's all about gameplay
09:23gameplay graphics do matter a little bit
09:25uh i'm not gonna deny that but
09:28way less than in other genres um
09:32so another thing that really appeals to
09:34me personally i'm i'm i'm
09:36i'm a person who craves novelty who who
09:39doesn't like to get stuck on the same
09:41thing for for months and years so uh the
09:43short development time on
09:45of hyper casual games it's some
09:47something that really really appeals to
09:51we a lot of our prototypes and most of
09:54our prototypes are developed
09:55in less than a week like on the left
09:58side you can see a screenshot
09:59of our recent hit let's be cops
10:02and i've checked actually the the
10:06uh the timestamps on slack uh when i got
10:09uh this is a screenshot from a video and
10:11i got the screenshot from
10:13and it took us less than a day to have
10:16like the core functionality of the game
10:18we we then spent a little bit more time
10:20to polish it and add a pre a little bit
10:22prettier graphics and stuff like that
10:24but the core functionality was there
10:26less than a day so hybrid casual games
10:28can be developed in a really really
10:30uh uh in very little time
10:33uh which makes it appealing you you you
10:36work on something new virtually every
10:41at least for me is very very appealing
10:44and now we're doing something called cpr
10:47tests which means we we just test the
10:50marketability of the game
10:52and what ctr tests uh allow us to do is
10:55basically we don't even need a prototype
10:57anymore we just need a gameplay video
10:59it doesn't even need to be recorded from
11:01uh on a phone it can be recorded from
11:03from the unity editor uh it doesn't need
11:08uh content like like if we have a minute
11:10of gameplay we can show that's all we
11:12it doesn't need to be very polished it
11:14doesn't need to work
11:16properly there if if if it has bugs we
11:20don't record the footage of these bugs
11:23so that that allows us to
11:25even quicker test game ideas which
11:28i think is very very exciting um
11:31especially if you're somebody who has
11:33like this stream of creative ideas and
11:36want them all made um hyper casual games
11:40cheaper to pro produce like there is
11:44less of an expectation of production
11:48like using asset packs is not frowned
11:51if you sometimes on steam you see games
11:56which and you see their reviews and it
11:58says something like oh this is just an
12:00asset flip because the uh players
12:03recognize that this is an asset pack
12:05that was used in the game
12:07uh we that's not an issue in hyper
12:10casual nobody's going to
12:12care if you're using asset packs so that
12:18programming is often not very complex
12:21like there's usually the if there's any
12:24ai then it's very very simple
12:27we don't really do multiplayer like we
12:30bots as a i mean there are some hyper
12:32casual games that sort of imply that
12:34that they look like they are a
12:36multiplayer games but
12:38that's just smoke and mirrors those are
12:41um sorry if i give gave away the the
12:46um we don't need sounds people usually
12:49play it don't play them with sound on so
12:51those are not really needed at least not
12:53for the initial versions we can add it
12:57if if the game does well uh and there's
12:59not a lot of content
13:00required like there's no expectation of
13:02having like eight hours of play time it
13:05can do with much much less than that as
13:07long as the game is fun
13:09uh uh and engaging that's that's
13:12all you don't need to have like i don't
13:15unique levels or anything like that so
13:18saves production time um
13:22here's a scary headline i have found on
13:26it says 80 percent of steam games earn
13:295 000 in the 5 000 in the first two
13:33which is frightening like that's means
13:36there's a lot of developers that
13:38don't break even maybe or or barely
13:41make a profit with their games and uh
13:44um and also if you think about it uh
13:47with traditional indie games the
13:48development times are much much longer
13:51if not years working on your baby you
13:55income during that time you're just
13:56eating into your savings or
13:58your investor money or whatever source
14:01of funds you have or you're doing it on
14:03the side you don't have any income and
14:06you release your game to the world and
14:09the the the dice roll is it gonna make
14:13is it gonna make the money back or not
14:16a frightening prospect like i've been
14:21it's it's it's indeed very very
14:23frightening and what
14:25hyper casual games offer at least when
14:27working with quality i cannot speak for
14:29our competitors but when working with
14:32when we're publishing a game with us we
14:35uh advanced play payments we do offer
14:38milestone payments if certain kpis are
14:40we we we can build that relationship
14:44with the nintendo solo developer or an
14:47independent developer
14:48to to stay afloat even and and get some
14:51some money even before the game is
14:53really released even before the game is
14:56we do offer that uh and uh like i've
15:00um with hyper casual games you you won't
15:03a lot of time and money on something
15:05that simply won't work like
15:07uh and uh another thing
15:10casual games you need an artist you need
15:14you and you need a game designer um as
15:17i've mentioned earlier like
15:18like asset packs are a thing so if
15:20you're a programmer who has a good
15:22good sense for for uh aesthetics and
15:26knows how to put together some assets
15:27maybe you don't even need an artist or
15:29if you're an artist who sort of dabbled
15:32maybe the game you come up with is uh is
15:35simple enough that it doesn't uh even
15:38that you can basically write it yourself
15:42a lot of them are can be written in very
15:44rather simple unity scripts
15:49that's why i say it's uh you need a team
15:52or less to to get to work on hyper
15:59another thing that really really would
16:04if i were um if i were an independent
16:08making hyper casual games it's uh that
16:12only for at least again with the caveat
16:15with us working with quali publishing
16:17your game with quali means
16:19we take care of the heavy lifting we
16:20take care of the boring stuff
16:22if you look at the pie chart on the left
16:24that's that that's actually based on a
16:27indie game i found i believe in
16:29kamasutra i changed it switched
16:30the numbers up a little bit um
16:33but but it's representative of where
16:36time is being spent um
16:40in the in the in the development of an
16:43so you see the uh more than a third is
16:47on uh boring stuff i i i would say like
16:50marketing and bug fixing
16:52i mean if you're a game developer you
16:54don't want to you want to make
16:55make games you don't want to spend ages
16:58bug fixing or marketing the game
17:01and we take care of all of that we take
17:03care of ports if you make an ios build
17:05we port it to android and vice versa
17:07we take care of quality assurance we do
17:11we integrate all these sdks you know the
17:14and and and add sdks and analytics
17:18sdk really tedious stuff that can go
17:21uh we do we take care of that we take
17:23care of a localization
17:25and of course of user acquisition and
17:28so in the indie scene the list is saying
17:30that the last ten percent is really the
17:33ninety percent uh meaning like the the
17:36polishing a game and just getting it out
17:39a never-ending story and i've been there
17:42it's it's really not fun
17:43uh but that doesn't necessarily apply to
17:46hyper casual games at least not when
17:48like we we take care of that tail end
17:52thing um and you don't have to worry
18:00if that sounds like something you'd want
18:03be a part of you you you'd want to
18:06try get in touch with us write us an
18:09email at publisherpublishingquali.com
18:12if you're an indie developer maybe maybe
18:16exactly know where to get started with
18:18hyper casual games just
18:19just contact us we will we will help you
18:22get your foot in the door and and
18:24help you get started uh uh with
18:27with the hyper casual development um
18:31we um also also of course if you already
18:35hyper casual games you're working or if
18:38you're already working on a hyper casual
18:40game that could be turned maybe into a
18:42hyper casual game contact us
18:44please we have a really talented
18:47team of publishing managers that
18:51are going to help you and what's i
18:54something i'm not sure uh sure how
18:58in with our competitors but you know
19:00with quality the publishing
19:02team works very very closely with the
19:04design team we have a
19:05very talented design team we have a
19:07proven track record of
19:09hit games like we uh not not to brag but
19:13two um two two games in the top five
19:16charts in the us at the moment in the
19:19so we have a track record we we know how
19:22and we are there there to uh not only
19:24make our own games but
19:25we're also there to help um uh indie
19:28developers and hyper casual external
19:32uh and we the design team supports the
19:36to make sure if a game doesn't quite
19:40we we can help there to drag it across
19:44and um uh check out quality.com we have
19:47interesting blog with uh with where we
19:51where we um write more about
19:54how we work on casual games
19:57and if going solo is not really for you
20:01lack the funds or it's too terrifying or
20:05doesn't fit your uh life circumstances
20:07and you prefer to have that
20:09steady paycheck um go to quality.com
20:13join uh slash join us it's a it's a
20:16like fun people a bunch of perks all
20:20great great environment to work we have
20:22something called creative wednesdays
20:24which means every wednesday uh
20:28everyone at the company i mean literally
20:31can work on their own game ideas
20:34uh and we give we give we give you that
20:38creative freedom to work on your own
20:41uh uh and uh what sweetens the deal we
20:45have a profit sharing
20:47scheme in place that means every quarter
20:50we get bonuses based on profits and
20:53based on your contribution to a
20:55to a profit making game which means uh
20:58you sort of get to be almost a little
21:00bit like an entrepreneur you get the
21:02creative freedom you would get
21:04you would have if you were your own
21:07if you were a solo developer or a small
21:11you get paid like an entrepreneur you
21:13get the share of the profits
21:15but you don't have any of any of the
21:17risks because you have a steady paycheck
21:19have an office environment
21:22where everything is provided to you so
21:24it's a the best of both worlds
21:26it certainly suits me like i've been a
21:30and um i've been an entrepreneur and
21:34working at quality definitely scratches
21:37entrepreneurial itch i always had and
21:40so yeah quality.com join us
21:47thanks gabriel that's great stuff um
21:50i've got so many questions for you and
21:51i've only got about two minutes to do it
21:54i did start you five minutes late so uh
21:56that's that's my fault um
21:58so just want to tap into some of these
22:01so the first question here
22:02um do you do user acquisition in tier
22:07like india and are you able
22:10in those uh economies to get return on
22:13investment can you make money basically
22:16in the indian market with this kind of
22:21ruth be told we do strive for
22:24profitability when we scale a game so
22:28yes india in particular i don't know the
22:30numbers it's not really my forte but i
22:33would assume so because
22:34we do strive if we scale a game that
22:37means we're making a profit on it
22:39uh so i do assume that applies for uh to
22:42yeah and in my my understanding of it is
22:45um because we're dealing with uh
22:47advertisers rather than direct
22:49payment mechanisms it's actually in some
22:51ways a bit more easy to make
22:52some level of profit um because of the
22:57um billing particularly credit card base
23:01which can be a problem so um yes i know
23:04some organizations that do okay but i i
23:06don't think it's as as kind of
23:08as the u.s for example another one here
23:12um uh in fact i'm going to go for once
23:15um i will be saying um
23:18what guarantees it after showing you the
23:20game that you collap
23:22that if a deal was rejected um
23:26how do what stops you from appropriating
23:29um should there be an nda in place
23:32before showing you a prototype what do
23:33you think about that
23:35um this is a excellent question i'm not
23:38entirely sure what the publishing
23:39team how they approach this but what i
23:43doing something like that would just
23:44create a a bad reputation throughout the
23:48industry if we would were to do
23:49something like that that word gets out
23:51and we would tarnish our
23:53reputation forever so i don't know the
23:55details would exactly sign what's in the
23:57but it's not something we would do we
24:01long-term partnerships exactly and i
24:03think this is the thing that we often
24:04actually is that there is a problem
24:06where we get very precious about our
24:09and there is no investor who will sign
24:11an nda that's worth the salt because
24:15it's a pointless exercise for them if
24:17you don't have the capacity to produce
24:19lots of ideas in hyper casual there's no
24:21point in having a relationship with you
24:23and the fact that you think your idea is
24:24unique is probably wrong
24:27and i i suspect from my observation it's
24:30mostly about can you deliver
24:32the relationship that delivers the
24:34quality of experience for the player
24:36on a regular basis and that's about
24:37teamwork not about a specific idea is
24:40makes sense to you that's absolutely how
24:42it is don't get too attached to your
24:46learn get the mindset of failing fast
24:49moving on failing fast moving on like
24:52having that mindset not getting too
24:54attached not trying to um but maybe if i
24:56twist it a little bit like that it will
24:58just move on if the game doesn't meet
25:00the kpis if it's near the target kpis we
25:03can work with you like i mentioned we
25:05team that will work with you that will
25:07help you drag that game across the line
25:09but if it's far from the mark
25:11it's better to move on as harsh as it
25:14so purnima was saying um that uh
25:18video ads versus playable prototypes um
25:20have you seen a difference in terms of
25:23for testing hyper-casual games
25:27is uh in in comparatively prototypes to
25:31to click-through rates if i understand
25:33correctly which means
25:34uh with prototypes we get the full set
25:38cpi data we get uh retention data uh
25:42however with with uh with the ctr test
25:44we only obviously get ctr and some other
25:47cpc and ipms uh in terms of like
25:52what exactly the metrics are that we're
25:53looking for this is again a question
25:56our publishing team unfortunately i have
25:59to publishing at quad oh that's fine hey
26:02i know those guys pretty well
26:03uh but if anyone's interested um if you
26:06ever participate in the big indie pitch
26:08fantastic sponsors of that event and i'm
26:11very lucky i spent a lot of time doing
26:12judging on that myself
26:14and they're they're so much more
26:16generous than i am i'm i'm so much more
26:19uh they're a great bunch of people to
26:21work with and um you know again um but
26:24that you know obviously there are other
26:25people who are in this space and we're
26:27going to talk about the
26:28uh one of the bigger teams next so i'm
26:30going to say thank you to one gabriel
