Candela Obscura: Game Master Roundtable
Critical Role2024-06-27
Audio Drama#Candela Obscura#Occult#Sci-Fantasy#Critical Role#Sci-fi#Fantasy#Performing Arts#Improvisation#Fiction Podcast#Narrative Podcast#Matthew Mercer#Matt Mercer#Aabria Iyengar#Liam O'Brien#Spenser Starke
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💫 Short Summary
The video segment features insights and advice from GMs on creating a spooky atmosphere in tabletop role-playing games, aligning personal and campaign themes, and providing closure to player arcs. It emphasizes the importance of session zero, pacing, and narrative development, as well as player agency and engagement. The discussion also covers themes of healing, storytelling techniques, and embedding themes in character backstories. GMs are encouraged to empower players, balance agency and narrative progression, and use atmospheric triggers to enhance gameplay experiences. The segment concludes with discussions on societal themes in storytelling, research, and creating a safe and inclusive gaming environment.
✨ Highlights
📊 Transcript
✦
Discussion on establishing tone with players through session zeros, importance of silence in horror games, and transition point before starting the game.
01:46Aabria shares technique of shaking out laughter and jokes before a moment of silence to create a shift in mood.
Emphasis on setting the table's mood to immerse players in the spooky style of the game.
✦
Importance of pacing, volume, and narration style in creating mood and atmosphere in storytelling.
03:30Utilizing silence and quiet moments for intimacy and impact, adjusting music and lighting to enhance the experience.
The significance of deliberate spooky voices and maintaining a baseline tone to engage players effectively.
Suggestions for cultivating playlists and making simple lighting adjustments for horror games.
Discussion on running games in the evening for a better atmosphere.
✦
Creating a spooky atmosphere in tabletop role-playing games.
07:04Aligning monsters with metaphors to evoke primal fears in players is crucial.
Self-reflection, internal struggle, and confronting one's worst enemy are key elements in crafting impactful campaigns.
Tapping into emotional landing points and avoiding superficial scares enhances the horror experience.
Participants aim to engage players in a deeper, more meaningful horror experience by exploring personal fears and inner demons.
✦
Importance of aligning personal and campaign themes in character building and storytelling.
08:50Observing players build characters and explore thematic interests enhances engagement and collaboration.
Drawing inspiration from horror soundtracks and media helps set atmospheric tones in the game.
Engaging with spooky content like true crime and cryptids outside of gaming sparks creativity and adds depth to narratives.
Utilizing music and diverse media sources enhances the overall gaming experience.
✦
Discussion on fascination with bizarre and strange content on the internet.
12:11Exploration of historical cryptids and creatures reflecting fears of different eras.
Concept of social hysteria and imagery related to uncanny valley and primal fears.
Mention of artist Beksiński and his eerie and unsettling art.
Emphasis on finding inspiration from unsettling art to create narrative lore and world-building aspects evoking primal fears.
✦
Urban legends surrounding bodies found in a graveyard being moved to make space for a field are discussed.
14:52The bodies were rumored to have multiple limbs and heads due to mishandling during relocation.
Horror game inspirations are explored, with a participant sharing their original idea for a game based on dark historical moments.
The concept of institutional memory of trauma in a place, such as a razed Black neighborhood, is considered as a theme for storytelling and game development.
✦
Discussion on healing old wounds and moving forward by acknowledging and learning from past mistakes.
17:37Emphasis on the importance of addressing historical mistakes rather than ignoring them.
Exploration of history and mistakes made in the past to avoid repeating them.
Highlighting the allure of exploring ancient states and the relevance of repeating mistakes in a modern context.
✦
Importance of Allowing Horror to Unfold Slowly.
22:42Traumatized landscapes and supernatural spaces can hold emotional scars from history.
Horror can have a therapeutic aspect by allowing individuals to face their fears and learn from them.
The concept of personifying trauma is discussed, highlighting the choice between fighting it or helping it process.
Horror is portrayed as having a dual nature, being both scary and potentially beneficial.
✦
Importance of relatability and hope in storytelling.
24:04Author uses example of characters facing extreme challenges and emerging stronger.
Discussion on D&D game scenario where players overcome obstacles for a positive outcome.
Themes of hope and character development in storytelling are explored.
Balance between player agency and narrative direction is discussed.
✦
Importance of Session Zero in Role-Playing Games
27:42Session zero involves one-on-one conversations to uncover player motivations and preferences.
Asking the right questions helps reveal player excitement and fears, leading to a dynamic narrative.
Trust and communication are crucial for setting boundaries and ensuring player comfort, especially in horror games.
The Game Master plays a key role in guiding story development based on player input and reactions.
✦
Importance of Fun and Safety at the Table in Tabletop RPGs.
31:02Players should have fun and feel safe, with tension created without traumatizing characters.
Setting up dramatic questions allows players to shape character arcs and achieve resolution.
Brennan's character arc, focused on saving his mom, demonstrates the impact of personal goals on character development.
Emphasis on nuanced storytelling elements and player agency in tabletop role-playing games.
✦
Tips for weaving individual sessions into an overarching story.
33:33Vary threats beyond monsters, create breathing room for players, and balance anxiety with fun to prevent burnout.
Provide closure to player arcs, whether sad or happy, for a satisfying experience.
Building emotional weight through character losses can deepen player engagement and investment in the narrative.
Collaborative storytelling experiences are enhanced as players join forces to navigate challenges together.
✦
Planning the scope of a campaign is crucial for pacing and narrative development in tabletop RPGs.
36:55The rule of three acts structures storytelling, with early establishment, mid-game twists, and big finales.
Setting up elements in early episodes that pay off later enhances player engagement.
GMs should ensure that the horror elements in the story make sense internally to immerse players effectively.
Having a clear idea of the campaign's endpoint allows for strategic storytelling decisions from the beginning, leading to a satisfying and cohesive narrative experience.
✦
Importance of planning a mystery with clues and Easter eggs that lead to the final moments.
38:51All clues and directs should point towards one place, especially in a three-game series.
Planning clues and mysteries in a game setting involves establishing themes, introducing settings and moods, and creating multiple threads leading to a common threat.
The core theme focuses on people repeating past mistakes, capitalizing on the unknown, and unleashing horrors through exploitation and misuse.
✦
Importance of Providing Crucial Information to Players in Storytelling.
43:20Confession about creating a bottleneck in the game, causing fear and uncertainty.
Chamber filled with powerful artifacts leads to a surprising discovery of a platform going even further down.
Cautionary tale about luring players into traps.
Flexibility in storytelling is necessary to maintain player engagement.
✦
Importance of embedding themes in characters' backstories and story elements.
46:02Key themes need to be repeated multiple times for players to understand their significance.
Balancing player freedom with subtle guidance in tabletop games is crucial.
Consistency and direction are necessary in game narratives, similar to stage performances.
Creativity and spontaneity can coexist with constraints in game design.
✦
GM's role in guiding players through a dangerous place.
48:08Narrative focuses on subtle nudges to keep players engaged without forcing them.
Modularity and gentle guidance help players navigate failures and ensure smooth story progression.
Taking breaks and allowing players to think helps access important parts of the mystery.
Collaborative storytelling and gentle guidance are key to guiding players without restricting their choices.
✦
Key highlights from the segment on player investigation in GMing mystery games.
51:10Players indicate interests to guide GMs in highlighting areas of narrative importance.
Specific details prompt player investigation, akin to closeup magic, in mystery games.
All players investigate together, influencing clue distribution based on inquiries.
Clues can be tailored to player styles, such as seeking information from people or art.
✦
Strategies for guiding players in narrative-form games.
53:36Importance of shifting narratives based on mixed successes and listening and responding as a GM.
Handling mixed successes by providing twists and consequences, asking questions to push the story forward, and creating dangerous scenarios.
Emphasis on understanding player desires, motivations, and consequences to advance the narrative effectively.
Encouragement for GMs to be flexible, allow for narrative turns, and create engaging action set pieces with time constraints and obstacles.
✦
Using atmospheric triggers and senses to create consequences and increase player anxiety in tabletop RPGs.
56:46GMs should introduce complications on mixed success dice rolls, such as physical sensations like tingling or smelling things.
GMs transitioning to narrative-driven games may struggle with consistently coming up with complications for mixed success outcomes.
Easy options for complications include giving players brain marks or abruptly ending conversations.
Useful storytelling tools involve themes, narrative moments, and player indication.
✦
Narrative-focused gameplay system discussed in the video segment.
01:00:38Success, failure, and mixed success are depicted as emotional states for characters, with outcomes determined by storytelling rather than game mechanics.
The system allows for unexpected plot twists, prioritizing character emotions and experiences over numerical results.
✦
Empowering players in tabletop games by balancing agency and narrative progression.
01:02:33GMs can raise stakes to push player decision-making and maintain tension without removing agency.
Acting in narrative-driven games is emphasized over over-planning.
Creating high-stakes situations encourages player choices and drives the story forward.
Engaging all players, including those withdrawn, can provide valuable perspectives on unfolding events.
✦
Encouraging player initiative and choice in the game.
01:05:45Some players may be more hesitant than others when making decisions.
Spotlighting moments for quieter players to shine and lead the group is important.
The GM should empower players to narrate and contribute in unexpected ways.
Dynamic energy between players and GM shapes the story, fostering freedom, respect, and trust at the table.
✦
Role-playing game session with seance or exorcism scene involving players and GM.
01:07:53GM facilitates interaction, allowing players to explore character relationships.
Importance of balancing narrative pressure and player agency emphasized by GM.
GM creates challenging situations while providing support and guidance.
Fun of playing up conflicts and maintaining balance between antagonism and camaraderie discussed by participants.
✦
Inspiration for Candela Obscura
01:10:57Drawing from Victorian era and post-World War society to create a turn of the century setting with societal issues.
Emphasis on research and learning to avoid cultural insensitivity in game development.
Removal of crystal balls as they were identified as a blind spot in the game.
Encouraging open conversations at the table and welcoming diverse perspectives while maintaining a safe and inclusive environment for all players.
✦
Importance of societal themes in storytelling and conducting research.
01:14:41Building a world together with a group, even with a rule book, for investment and understanding.
Engaging with historical issues in a safe space at the table for exploration of horror narratives.
Conflict and contention as essential textures for storytelling, emphasizing the need for communication and collaboration in world-building.
✦
Importance of creating a comfortable and engaging gaming environment.
01:17:40Knowing the game's setting and NPCs is crucial for a successful gaming experience.
Addressing uncomfortable situations at the table with grace and a willingness to learn is key.
Continuous evolution and adaptation are necessary for a positive and inclusive gaming experience.
Expressing gratitude to participants and promoting Candela Obscura game and accessories online and in local stores.
00:00MATT: Hello, everyone,
and welcome
00:01to this very special
Candela Obscura GM Roundtable.
00:05AABRIA: Ooh.
00:06MATT: I'm joined by my
fellow series GMs,
00:09Spenser Starke.
AABRIA: Ow!
00:10MATT: Aabria Iyengar
and Liam O'Brien.
00:13LIAM: Cheers, dears.
00:14MATT: For those who
are coming in with us
00:16and are unfamiliar,
00:17Candela Obscure is an
investigative horror
00:20tabletop RPG by
Darrington Press.
00:22It's actually out now in
the world as a game, a book,
00:26multiple series
on Critical Role,
00:28and your own actual
play series.
00:31We've also seen
on top of that,
00:33fantastic new assignments
00:34and other content
coming out using
00:36the Darrington Press
Community Gaming License.
00:38We're super thrilled that more
folks are growing the world
00:41of Candela Obscura and the
Illuminated Worlds System
00:44at their table and
in published content,
00:46which is incredible.
00:47We're so excited about that.
00:49But this is about
the GM roundtable.
00:52AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Each of us
00:54have our own game
mastering style
00:56and tools that we use
when running Candela Obscura.
00:59So today we're going to
bring you our best insights
01:02and advice and general
conversational fuckery
01:06to inspire your
own game mastery.
01:10In case you're just
trying out Candela Obscura,
01:12note that there's a
free quick start guide,
01:14a full core rule book,
dice, accessories,
01:16and more available
to you right now
01:18to play the game
if you'd like.
01:20So look for them at your
friendly local game store
01:22or Darrington Press
Guild stores
01:24and Critical Role shops.
01:26So, without further
ado, shall we begin?
01:28SPENSER: Let's do it.
AABRIA: Let's do it.
01:29LIAM: Let's talk.
MATT: Beautiful.
01:31LIAM: Let's talk
creepy deepy.
01:32MATT: Well, speaking
of creepy deepy--
01:33AABRIA: Creepy deepy! Yeah.
01:34MATT: Speaking
of creepy deepy--
01:35AABRIA: What?!
01:36Please, that's the best
transition I've ever heard.
01:38(laughter)
01:39MATT: A big thing about horror
games is mood, setting it,
01:44setting the table's mood,
getting everyone invested.
01:46Just to kick this off,
what are some of the tricks
01:49that you use to
guide your players
01:52into that head space,
to both actively
01:55and subconsciously
pull them into this
01:58spooky style of the game?
02:00LIAM: I just re-skin
"Goosebumps" episodes.
02:02(laughter)
02:03MATT: Also viable.
SPENSER: So viable.
02:04AABRIA: That makes sense now.
02:06MATT: Use what you know.
AABRIA: I see it.
02:08SPENSER: I think that session
zeros are really important
02:10to establishing
tone with players.
02:13If everybody's showing up
and knows what they're in for,
02:15I think it's a lot easier
to get that transition in.
02:17I also think that,
especially in horror games,
02:20that silence is
really important.
02:22MATT: Yeah.
SPENSER: Just allowing
02:23for there to be a
moment of silence
02:24before everything
gets started.
02:26I remember when we were,
02:27I don't think anybody here
was playing in the campaign
02:29that I did,
but when we did it,
02:32before we started shooting,
02:33we would all shake
everything out
02:35and then we'd all go silent
02:36for a couple of moments.
02:38AABRIA: Ooh.
SPENSER: Then we would start
02:40and that little
bit of letting go,
02:42because we were
laughing and joking
02:44and having fun right before,
02:45but then we shook
all of that out
02:47and then just let
that moment of silence
02:49be our transition point
02:50before I jumped into
the opening of the show.
02:53AABRIA: Nice.
SPENSER: That was-- Yeah.
02:54MATT: Awesome.
AABRIA: That's really good.
02:55You should have
shared that note.
02:56That's a great idea.
(laughter)
02:59LIAM: I think the method
of one's narration
03:02goes a long way
to doing that too.
03:04If you're doing high fantasy
or something cyberpunky,
03:07you're probably doing a little
more action-adventure vibes
03:11to what you're narrating,
03:13but this isn't even like
that schmacting thing,
03:16it's just the nature
of the audio book
03:18you're inviting
your players into.
03:20So in addition to silence,
03:22there's a lot more
room for quiet
03:23and way more
intimacy overall.
03:26SPENSER: For sure.
MATT: Yeah,
03:27I'd say pacing and
volume are two knobs
03:29that you can continuously use
03:30to change and shift the mood.
03:34To your point, taking those
quiet moments, keeping it down
03:37and still,
setting that baseline,
03:39and then being able
to leave those gaps
03:43and slow the pace,
03:45so when you ramp
it up suddenly,
03:46it catches them
off guard and helps--
03:47AABRIA: That's too spooky.
MATT: -- build that--
03:49(laughter)
03:51MATT: That's the end
of the panel. Yeah.
03:52(laughter)
AABRIA: We did it.
03:53MATT: We did it. No.
AABRIA: I do think
03:54there's something there
03:56with being very deliberate
with your spooky voice,
04:01that scary narrator voice,
04:03and using that
to re-enter groups.
04:06You can't expect a table,
especially when you're like:
04:08We're all friends having
fun with each other.
04:10You're going to break
the tone a little bit,
04:12usually just above game
04:14because you can't live
inside of anxiety forever.
04:16But having that baseline tone
04:18and the tenor you
can drop into
04:23gets everyone back with you.
04:24You get quiet and low
and methodical again
04:27and it feels like the music
changing behind the scenes
04:31and you're like: Oh, we're
getting back to it.
04:33All right, cool, that was
a fun diversion to baseball.
04:36LIAM: Baseball.
AABRIA: Baseball.
04:38LIAM: Pronunciation.
AABRIA: Sorry.
04:40I always mispronounce it.
MATT: (laughs)
04:42AABRIA: Getting back
to the spooky.
04:43LIAM: It's great sport.
04:44MATT: You mentioned
music, that's
04:45actually another great tool.
04:46I mean, for most
games in general,
04:47but especially
for horror games
04:49where the atmosphere
is so important,
04:51cultivating a playlist that
you've either found online
04:56or built yourself
of movie soundtracks
04:58that fit a similar
vibe and theme,
05:01either separating it
into different moods
05:02or having something
that lends itself
05:04to that creepy atmosphere
that you want to set,
05:07whether it be a time
period you want to evoke,
05:10or the mood you want
to keep at the table.
05:12Even simple lighting
adjustments
05:14in the space that you're
playing if you can.
05:15SPENSER: Totally.
05:16LIAM: Probably better to run
your games in the evening.
05:19(laughter)
05:20MATT: A brunch Candela
just doesn't quite
05:21have the same spark.
05:22AABRIA: Brunch Candela
is so great.
05:24You're like: I'm eating
a frittata. Let's be sad.
05:27(laughter)
05:28MATT: But, by all means,
05:29please do if you're
inspired by it.
05:30AABRIA: Yeah. (laughs)
MATT: Don't let us stop you.
05:32I love a spooky frittata.
05:34AABRIA: Spooky frittata!
05:35Please change my lower
third that doesn't exist
05:37to Aabria Iyengar,
05:39Spooky Frittata.
SPENSER: Spooky Frittata.
05:40(laughter)
AABRIA: Thank you.
05:41LIAM: Candela Obscura,
chapter five.
05:43(laughter)
05:44LIAM and AABRIA: Circle
of the Spooky Frittata.
05:46(laughter)
05:49MATT: (laughing) Oh no!
We're already off the rails.
05:51This is beautiful.
AABRIA: Done.
05:52SPENSER: What's the
existential horror version
05:55of a bottomless mimosa?
05:56It's an endless,
like the void--
05:58AABRIA: Ooh.
05:59It's like getting too
much of what you want.
06:01It's like--
SPENSER: Yeah.
06:03AABRIA: It's the "Se7en"--
06:04Or sorry, "Se7en" but--
06:06MATT: The glutton?
AABRIA: Yeah, you get it.
06:08MATT: I knew it.
AABRIA: Yeah.
06:09SPENSER: (laughs)
AABRIA: Yeah.
06:10I want to die like that.
06:11SPENSER: (laughs)
06:13AABRIA: Hey, when I die--
MATT: You heard it here, folks.
06:15(laughter)
06:17AABRIA: Hey Matt, you want
to do a really weird
06:18death pact with me?
06:20MATT: Honestly?
Throw it on the pile.
06:22AABRIA: Yes!
(laughter)
06:23MATT: I got seven, let them
fight it out when I'm done.
06:24AABRIA: (laughs)
MATT: (laughs)
06:26Not my responsibility.
06:27LIAM: Why is the hot tub
06:28full of orange juice
and champagne?
06:29(laughter)
06:31MATT: Oh no. (laughs)
06:34AABRIA: I'd do it.
06:35MATT: (laughs)
06:36AABRIA: What were
we talking about?
06:37MATT: We're talking about--
SPENSER: Whatever.
06:38AABRIA: Scary.
LIAM: Setting mood.
06:40MATT: Mood and themes.
AABRIA: Yes.
06:42MATT: Well, that's also
very GM-facing
06:44or person who's
hosting a game.
06:46AABRIA: Yeah.
06:48MATT: As far as
preparation goes
06:49for the mood of your players,
that's one thing.
06:51How about the mood
for you as a GM?
06:53What helps each of you get
into the mindset to begin
06:56to create a campaign
for your players,
06:58to really get you in
the mindset of starting
07:01to build in this
spooky space?
07:04AABRIA: I definitely abide
by horror conventions now,
07:09which are like,
what am I specifically,
07:12and maybe we as
a society or a group
07:14afraid of right now?
07:17Taking that, I always tend
to build theme first,
07:20and once you land on,
for our chapter,
07:24leaning very much
into what if you're
07:26the most monstrous thing
you'll ever encounter?
07:29That idea of the
thing in the mirror.
07:32No one's ever been meaner to
me than I am in my own head.
07:36What if I'm my worst enemy
07:37and what does that mean
for the people around me,
07:39and what does that
mean for a group
07:40that has a purpose
of fighting monsters?
07:44that has a purpose
of fighting monsters?
07:47So I think there's something
inside of what terrifies you,
07:50what feels creepy,
what feels spooky?
07:52Because you can
always come back
07:53to that emotional
landing point.
07:56Then the monsters that
you bring into the world,
07:58the monsters are supposed
to be a metaphor.
08:01So being able to
line up a shot
08:03and say here's how the
monster serves this idea,
08:06because when you see
in your player's face
08:08that all of it's
into alignment
08:10on something that's
a primal fear
08:12and not just like it's
a spider with eight butts
08:14and 19 stingers.
08:16If that means something
more than the visceral fear
08:19in your player's ability to
imagine a thing that's scary,
08:23then it lands in
them in a good way
08:25and everyone's now
playing a horror game.
08:28MATT: I dig that.
AABRIA: I talked for too long.
08:29MATT: No, no, no.
SPENSER: No, no.
08:31MATT: That's what
this is about.
08:32AABRIA: Ripcord out!
08:33SPENSER: On the
topic of themes,
08:34one of the things that
I find really valuable
08:36for me as a GM is
watching the players
08:39build their characters--
AABRIA: Yes.
08:40SPENSER: -- and figuring out
08:41what themes are
they interested in,
08:43and then how do I take the
themes that I'm interested in
08:45and either find
a common ground--
08:47LIAM: Throw them together.
SPENSER: -- or smash them together,
08:48right, and take all
these different pieces.
08:50So I will literally lay out
the themes of the campaign.
08:54AABRIA: Same.
SPENSER: It's even in the book
08:56because the book
was developed
08:57as we were making the show,
as we were making the game,
09:00so laying out
what are the themes,
09:03and then whenever I, as a GM,
have a question about
09:05what it is I should
go to in a moment,
09:07either in preparation
09:09or at the table when
we're improving stuff,
09:13looking at those
themes and being able
09:14to pull something from one
of those four or five options
09:18makes it a lot easier to
decide how to take the story.
09:22SPENSER: So, yeah.
09:22So infusing that and including
the players in that process
09:26is really fun.
AABRIA: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
09:28LIAM: On a totally
different angle,
09:30when I was prepping
my chapter,
09:32I liked creeping the
shit out of myself.
09:34I wanted to make myself
feel as uncomfortable
09:37as I was aiming
for with the table.
09:39So my days spent
in my office alone,
09:42obsessing about
the initial ideas
09:44and how I was going to
have to them change things
09:46and move them around,
09:47I would play lots
of horror soundtracks
09:50just so that I could feel bad.
AABRIA: Yeah.
09:54SPENSER: (laughs)
AABRIA: What was your go-to?
09:56What gave the
the most spooky?
09:58LIAM: (contemplative) Oh.
09:59What's the movie, "The Witch."
MATT: Mm-hmm.
10:02AABRIA: "The Vvitch?"
SPENSER: Yeah, "The Vvitch."
10:03AABRIA: Hell, yeah.
SPENSER: It's so good.
10:05LIAM: That was a big one.
AABRIA: Love that.
10:06LIAM: I don't know.
I'm going to blank on you now.
10:08MATT: That's fine,
that's okay.
10:09SPENSER: There's a
really cool series
10:11of albums online on
Spotify or wherever
10:14called Atrium Carceri
and they're like drone--
10:18Do you know those?
MATT: I know them
10:19because they show up
on other playlists
10:21that I have for
atmospheric spooky
10:22and they're on the playlist.
SPENSER: So I click
10:24one of those albums--
AABRIA: Yeah.
10:25SPENSER: -- and it
is like gold.
10:26It's so good, yeah.
MATT: That's stuff's really good.
10:28I use that for a lot of
writing background stuff.
10:30Outside of Candela, but
really helpful in Candela.
10:32Music for atmosphere
is really good.
10:34Pulling from media, that's
inspiring, to that point.
10:39It's funny, before Candela
I was accidentally preparing
10:41because me and Marisha
are weird people
10:43and when we go
to bed at night,
10:44we'll find macabre
YouTube rabbit holes,
10:47like true crime stuff
and weird mythological beasts
10:51and cryptids and
odd disappearances
10:54and people getting lost in
tiny caves and getting wedged.
10:57Terrifying things.
AABRIA and SPENSER: (laugh)
10:59MATT: Look, YouTube
has a plethora
11:00of terrifying
topics out there
11:02and a great thing
to sleep to,
11:03because your
dreams are awesome.
11:05AABRIA: (laughs) Oh my god.
11:05MATT: I have problems.
SPENSER: (laughs)
11:06MATT: But you can
use that-- (laughs)
11:09LIAM: If you didn't know--
MATT: Self-inflicted trauma.
11:10AABRIA: I'm so happy.
LIAM: For anyone who
11:11didn't know, Matt
has a real strange,
11:14lesser known fascination
with the bizarre
11:19and strange on the internet.
11:20It is his background
noise at all times.
11:24AABRIA: I didn't mean to
throw you under the bus
11:25by laughing the whole time,
but it was great! (laughs)
11:28MATT: Oh, I wouldn't have said
it if I didn't expect it.
11:30(laughter)
11:31SPENSER: What have you pulled
from, what can you remember
11:33that you pulled from,
from those kinds of bits?
11:36MATT: A lot of
various historical
11:38cryptids and creatures
11:40were reflections
of fears of the time,
11:42to what you
were implying too,
11:43and were often people's
either imaginations
11:46and fears mingling with eras
11:48in which there wasn't
a lot of light.
11:50There was a lot of,
11:53also a lot of, historically,
periods of time
11:55where food went bad
and no one knew
11:56and people were
mildly hallucinating
11:58without understanding it.
AABRIA: Right. Oh my god.
11:59MATT: And there might actually
be terrible creatures
12:01we don't understand
out there.
12:03But so all these
different aspects
12:05of these
mythological creatures
12:08and these cryptids and stuff
12:09to me, created one, ideas of
12:11what social hysteria was,
as well as imagery.
12:16It's funny, giant
monsters are awful.
12:19Humanity wrong is more
intrinsically terrifying.
12:24Things that push into
the uncanny valley.
12:25If you're looking at
yourself in the mirror
12:26and seeing something
look back that's not you.
12:28AABRIA: (shudders)
MATT: All these different facets.
12:30The more it's
recognizable but wrong,
12:33the more it hits
that primal fear,
12:36which is why the uncanny
valley is so terrifying
12:38and you see a lot of these
cryptids are human-like.
12:41So you hear a lot
of these stories
12:43and that was a lot
of inspiration there,
12:46and a lot of it too
was finding creepy art.
12:49Many real incredible
artists out there
12:50that draw incredible
creatures.
12:53I can never pronounce
his name, Belinski.
12:55He's incredible.
12:57I'm going to look it up so
I don't mess up his name,
13:00but he's this amazing,
I want to say Polish artist
13:03who did this incredible
hellscape art of creatures.
13:06AABRIA: Dope!
SPENSER: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:07I think we were talking about
this during the first season.
13:10MATT: Yeah, Belinski.
SPENSER: Belinski, yeah.
13:12MATT: Or sorry, Beksiński,
who has just--
13:16AABRIA: Beksiński.
MATT: Beksiński. Beskin-ski--
13:18You get it. Google it.
SPENSER: I remember you
13:19sending it to me.
MATT: It'll fix it for you.
13:20AABRIA: Put it in Matt's lower
thirds that don't exist.
13:22(laughter)
MATT: Sorry, I'm bad at this.
13:23AABRIA: No, you're good.
MATT: I'm bad at this.
13:24Also, I find incredible
art out there
13:28from some incredible artists
13:29to be great points
of inspiration.
13:30When you go through and go:
Oh, that unsettles me.
13:34What about that unsettles me?
13:35And taking that down
13:37and seeing what
narrative lore,
13:39world-building aspect can make
a reason for this existing
13:42and why it scares me
on a primal level,
13:44and then adapting
that in a unique way
13:46within the setting
works really well.
13:48LIAM: Now Spenser, you just
eat too many Red Vines
13:50when you're prepping.
SPENSER: It's true.
13:51AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: (laughs)
13:52AABRIA: (spews)
SPENSER: (spews)
13:52AABRIA: This is the monster.
13:53(laughter)
13:57SPENSER: I was wondering,
13:58because I know for
me pulling from,
14:01to jump off what
you're talking about,
14:02pulling from real
life phenomena,
14:05things that actually
happened and then going:
14:07What's the one step removed,
14:11is oftentimes a fun way
to find a real mystery.
14:13I know one of them,
14:14and I don't think it
impacted the season we did,
14:17but it was one of the
games that we played,
14:20at least I know you
and I played together
14:22when we were play testing.
14:23AABRIA: I've never played game with you.
SPENSER: You've never played the game--
14:24Yeah, we've never played
the game together
14:25ever in our lives.
AABRIA: Ever, not ever.
14:27SPENSER: I think Aabria
is probably the person
14:28I've played the most
games with in my life.
14:29AABRIA: Look,
if you've ever noted--
14:32Occasionally, I get credit for
like, oh, a cinematic thing.
14:35I was like, "Watch Spenser.
That's where I stole it."
14:38You can hear the yoink
as it happened.
14:41You're incredible.
SPENSER: Oh, thank you.
14:42I know, we played
early early on there.
14:44AABRIA: Early days, sorry.
SPENSER: But when we were playing,
14:47there was this thing
that happened in a graveyard,
14:48and forgive me, I don't
remember where this was,
14:50but they essentially
wanted to
14:52clear a space that
was originally a graveyard
14:56to be a field for
kids to play in,
14:59or something like that,
15:00and so they have this
undertaker move the bodies
15:03from one place
to another place,
15:05so they dig up all
the bodies and move them.
15:08But what that resulted in
is that the new graveyard,
15:12when they exhumed some of
the bodies down the road,
15:16there were coffins
that were open that
15:19were full of legs,
they weren't full of people.
15:21They had like six legs
or like three heads.
15:25It was these weird,
15:27like the coffins
were all messed up.
15:28And it was that
the undertaker,
15:30the person who was
responsible for digging,
15:32they dug everything up
and threw it all into a pile
15:35and then moved everything
15:36and then put everything
back into coffins
15:38to do it as fast as possible.
15:40AABRIA: Bruh, you sorting
200 some odd bones? Naur.
15:43SPENSER: I know.
LIAM: They're all going to
15:44turn back into
an array of atoms.
15:46SPENSER: Right, and that was
probably their thought process
15:49would be my assumption.
MATT: No one's going to
15:50go look these up later.
15:51SPENSER: Right, but then
when people did look them,
15:54it became
this urban legend, right,
15:57that these bodies
were, somehow,
16:00these people of this area
16:02had six legs or had
three heads or something.
16:06So pulling from that,
there were games
16:08where these bodies were,
we found this coffin
16:11that was full of a body
that had eight arms
16:14and you know, two heads,
and six different joints
16:19for their elbows and stuff.
16:20So pulling from that
was a cool inspiration.
16:23I was wondering if
there's anything
16:23that you all have pulled
from for this game,
16:26or horror games in general.
16:28AABRIA: My original idea
for Tide & Bone
16:31was actually pretty
close to that.
16:34I'm obsessed with the
ways in which modernity
16:38has plastered over
dark moments in history.
16:41I think thematically that
still stayed through,
16:43but there was going to be
more of a through line to--
16:47Central Park in New York City
16:48used to be a thriving
Black neighborhood,
16:51and they razed it
so they could have
16:53a beautiful park in
the middle of Manhattan.
16:55That idea of these,
it's not generational trauma,
17:00just the institutional
memory of trauma in a place
17:04where you have not put
the wrongness to rest.
17:09So that was going
to be a big thing
17:11that came through
in other ways.
17:12But yeah, pulling from
things from the headlines.
17:15The more we learn
about our history
17:16and the more we seek to
rectify it or justify it
17:20or just interact with
it in some way
17:22instead of simply
ignoring it now.
17:24That idea of trying to heal
old wounds is a thing
17:26that I constantly come
back to in horror
17:29because there is something
horrifying about
17:30having to go: A wrong
thing happened here
17:34and we have to apologize
and move forward,
17:37and we can't keep
holding onto old pain,
17:40you have to really
release old pain,
17:42is just a thing that,
it's not scary,
17:46it's difficult and
sits next to emotions
17:49that feel so close
to horror for me
17:51that it feels like
a good theme
17:52to always pluck at
while you're going:
17:54I don't know,
a spider with 19 butts.
17:56SPENSER: Right. (laughs)
MATT: In a similar vein,
17:58mistakes that are
intentionally forgotten
18:01and never learned from.
AABRIA: Yeah.
18:02MATT: To where the
pattern repeats itself.
18:04AABRIA: Ooh.
MATT: In dark, spooky spaces
18:06like Candela,
it's a ripe environment
18:08for forgotten history,
forgotten mistakes,
18:11things that exist because
of human arrogance,
18:15and as opposed
to dealing with it,
18:18just bearing it and hoping
it never creeps up again
18:19until I'm dead and the next
generations can deal with it.
18:22There's a lot of
that in our history.
18:24SPENSER and MATT: (laugh)
AABRIA: Probably not, though.
18:25LIAM: The setting
in the book,
18:27as well as history, and in
all of our chapters really,
18:30I think that we see Oldfaire
in its ancient state.
18:33AABRIA: I didn't say it first.
LIAM: We're repeating--
18:34AABRIA: I've been waiting
to talk about Oldfaire,
18:35but I didn't say the word first.
MATT: We'll get there,
18:37we'll get there!
AABRIA: Ah!
18:37(laughter)
18:39AABRIA: Go ahead.
LIAM: I'm just as deep
18:40on Oldfaire.
AABRIA: (hyperventilating)
18:42MATT: It's okay.
18:42LIAM: I love the lore
and the history
18:45that you guys created
in the book,
18:46and I fell in love with it,
18:47starting with Tide & Bone
and into mine.
18:49But obviously with the
modernity of war in Newfaire,
18:54it is just repeating
the mistakes of Oldfaire
18:56in a new and exciting way.
19:03I think we all
touched on that
19:04in different ways.
AABRIA: Yeah.
19:05LIAM: The book,
it's hard not to
19:08with the setting as it is.
19:10SPENSER: Us coming out of war--
LIAM: Yeah.
19:12SPENSER: -- and having
this technology, yeah.
19:15LIAM: On a different angle,
to answer your question,
19:18I had two things that
I wanted to explore in mine.
19:22One was touching on what
you were saying about
19:24when things are mostly
normal but just slightly off.
19:30When I was approached,
when Marisha asked me
19:32about running some Candela
a million years ago,
19:35my first thought
was I want to do
19:37something connected
to Ireland.
19:39AABRIA: Why does Ireland
scare you so much?
19:40LIAM: Because it is so--
(laughter)
19:43LIAM: It's hard to look at myself.
SPENSER: It's so green.
19:46LIAM: Because it's a lot
of desolate landscape
19:48and quiet and wind
and odd folk, sorry.
19:55I had fun
19:57with the opening
game of my chapter
20:00of trying to get
the players to relax
20:02and go, "Oh, they're
just a little quirky."
20:07AABRIA: Yeah.
LIAM: "It's fine,"
20:07and just lulling things,
lulling everyone
20:10into a place of a false
sense of security
20:12and then opening
up the 20 butts.
20:17AABRIA: I have to give you
so many props for that
20:21because we had talked about
it a little bit before
20:23you filmed and I was like,
"Shit, that's a really good idea.
20:27"I want to take it."
20:29But watching it,
you do something
20:31that I think is really
important when
20:32we talk about living in
horror and treating it right,
20:35which is give it enough time.
SPENSER: Yeah.
20:38AABRIA: I can see the ways
20:41even I would have been like,
"Ah, they're not relaxing.
20:43"Maybe I just move forward."
20:45You stuck with it and I felt
myself go, "Well, hold on.
20:50"I know what's coming and
yet I'm going to calm down."
20:53And watching the
entire table settle
20:56and then you hit
them was so good.
20:59That was a masterclass.
21:01I was just like, "Liam's
fucked up, actually."
21:03(laughter)
AABRIA: Jesus.
21:05LIAM: "Look, I have food."
AABRIA: Yeah.
21:07LIAM: "Come eat it." (chomp)
(laughter)
21:10SPENSER: The little angler fish.
AABRIA: So good.
21:13MATT: Oh.
SPENSER: Yeah, so cool.
21:13AABRIA: We're going to keep
calling that one girl a bitch
21:15and I'm like, "Yeah, that's
my little angler thing,"
21:17of like, "(laughs) We
don't like one girl."
21:19LIAM: The other thing
I wanted to play with was
21:21the only two things
that I knew for mine
21:23were the beginning
in Not-Ireland,
21:25which became the
island of Serenity,
21:27which is just two
lines in the book
21:28and I was like, "There
it is, it's right there,"
21:31was to end in a place where
people couldn't trust
21:35their senses because many
of us have been there
21:39and it is terrifying even
if there is not some
21:42greater power warping
and twisting you
21:45and it's one thing if you
can see the landscape
21:48around you and you can see
the monster with its 20 butts
21:51and how do I get
away from its butts?
21:53But when you're not sure,
21:54I wanted to see what would
happen after following
21:57you guys setting the pace
for Candela on the channel
22:04if I took away
22:07the tangible world to see,
22:09what could you even do?
AABRIA: Yeah.
22:11LIAM: It just seemed
like another way
22:12to make them feel
more hopeless.
22:14SPENSER: Yeah, really.
MATT: It's cool, too,
22:15because we talk about being
22:18barely off what's normal
and recognizable.
22:21We talked about
historical trauma,
22:24people carrying trauma
from previous generations.
22:27The cool thing about
supernatural spaces
22:29is more so than-- it
exists, it's real--
22:32the land itself holds trauma.
22:34AABRIA: Oof.
MATT: You know?
22:35That's what the idea
of haunting is.
22:36The idea that even those
that are long passed,
22:39the actual landscape
itself carries those scars
22:41and how does that
change the land?
22:42How does that change the energy
of the land and the nature
22:44that surrounds it?
LIAM: Holds emotion.
22:45MATT: Yeah, and you can
feel it to this day.
22:47You go to some places
in this world
22:48that have had
traumatic history
22:50and as beautiful as
it might be today,
22:52you can't help but feel
that history when you arrive
22:55and in settings like this, you
can tweak that even further.
22:58You can personify
that beyond the setting
23:01and sometimes give it
an actual entity,
23:03give it a figure that
represents that trauma
23:06and then is it up
to you to fight it
23:07or is it up to you
to put it to rest?
23:09Is it up to you
to help it process?
23:12Horror is scary, but horror
is also therapeutic.
23:16AABRIA: Yeah.
23:17MATT: As long as
you survive. (laughs)
23:19AABRIA: You'll learn
something, even in death.
23:21MATT: It's true.
LIAM: "My 20 butts have suffered,
23:23"and now you will, too!"
(laughter)
23:26SPENSER: I went to the
guy who wrote Fight Club.
23:29AABRIA: Chuck Pal...
23:30MATT: Chuck Palahniuk.
23:31SPENSER: Palahniuk.
AABRIA: Thank you.
23:32SPENSER: Went to his book
signing in LA a couple of--
23:34AABRIA: Yes!
23:36SPENSER: Maybe a year
ago at this point
23:37and he said something
that stuck with me.
23:39He's an awesomely
strange dude.
23:41MATT: I can imagine.
SPENSER: Yeah.
23:42But he said something
that stuck with me.
23:44AABRIA: Bottoms of pools
still freak me out.
23:45SPENSER: In the middle
of the-- yeah--
23:47There was a Q&A section
and they were asking him,
23:50somebody asked him, "Are you
ever worried that people
23:52"will judge you based on how
fucked up your characters are?
23:56"How fucked up your books are
23:57"and what do you
do about that?
23:59"How do you still keep
people interested
24:02"in these characters even
though they're fucked up?"
24:04And he stopped
24:06the whole thing.
LIAM: Because they're relatable.
24:08(laughter)
24:09SPENSER: He stopped
the whole Q&A
24:11and he took a water
bottle and he opened
24:12his pants and he poured
the water bottle
24:14down his pants,
the whole thing
24:16and then he put the water
bottle down and he said,
24:20"People want to watch
characters go through
24:24"the worst possible thing
they could ever imagine
24:28"and make it out
the other side.
24:30"For me, the worst possible
thing I could ever
24:33"go through would be
peeing myself on stage.
24:36"This is my worst nightmare.
24:39"I'm still going to
finish the presentation
24:41"and I'm going to go home and
I'm going to be just fine.
24:44"People want to watch
people go through that
24:47"and then come out
and still be okay
24:50"and that's what
gives them hope.
24:52"So as long as you
give, in some way,
24:54"give the audience hope
despite all the darkness,
24:59"that's what they're
going to love you for."
25:01I thought that was a really
weird and interesting way
25:04of getting across the
point of horror, right?
25:06It's like we are
scaring them,
25:08we are showing that we're
pushing them to the edge
25:10and even if our members of
Candela Obscura don't make it,
25:13the whole party's gone,
25:14did they do a thing--
AABRIA: My dream.
25:16SPENSER: Dream.
(laughter)
25:18SPENSER: Did they do a thing
that keeps the world safe?
25:21LIAM: Yeah.
AABRIA: Yeah.
25:22SPENSER: They
stopped a thing.
25:24AABRIA: Was it worth it?
SPENSER: Was it worth it?
25:25LIAM: I learned that
in my chapter.
25:27I came in beforehand going,
25:28"I'm going to kill every one
of these motherfuckers."
25:30AABRIA: Yeah.
LIAM: You watch, I'll be the one.
25:32The other three
were too scared.
25:34Here I come.
SPENSER: (laughs)
25:35LIAM: But halfway through,
I was like--
25:36AABRIA: I did great.
LIAM: I don't know if that's
25:37what it is.
25:40I allowed for that
to be the case,
25:41but my players rolled
real well.
25:44AABRIA: They rolled
lots of Candelas.
25:45LIAM: Rolled real well.
MATT: Yeah.
25:47Imari, forever.
25:48LIAM: But--
AABRIA and SPENSER: (laugh)
25:50LIAM: -- the outcome
was just right.
25:53AABRIA: Yeah.
LIAM: Because
25:56as an audience member
and even from my seat,
26:00I worked so hard to
grind them into dust
26:02that I wanted there to have
been something earned for it
26:06and so the ending was just
where it should have been.
26:09MATT: To a similar point,
26:11bring it back to the
game in session zero.
26:16How much of your
theme and game's
26:22beacons or goals of hope
26:24are taken from the
players at the table
26:26as they develop
their characters
26:28or it's something you find
partway through the story?
26:30Is that something you
consider at the outset
26:32or do you just focus
on theme and dangers
26:34and let it evolve
as you play?
26:37AABRIA: I think the way
we did our session zero
26:41involved one-on-one
conversations
26:42when we got everyone's
question and catalyst
26:46and there was a lot
of pushback on, "Okay,
26:48"here's your question about
what you think your character
26:51"is turning around,
the big idea behind them,"
26:54and I found it very,
very helpful to ask,
26:57"What is the worst version
of that answer for you?"
27:00And then "What do you
hope the answer is?"
27:03It's a very easy binary
for a shorter session.
27:06There's only three of them,
27:08so there's not a lot of time
27:09to tease and let
it build over time.
27:11SPENSER: Yeah.
AABRIA: But having those two,
27:14that bit of directionality
means that now you and I as
27:19the world and the character
27:21know the poles that
you're moving between
27:23as we move through the space
27:25and it becomes that much
easier to throw things
27:27to not quite corral
you in a direction,
27:30but to make both
results equally tempting
27:34and have you arrive
somewhere.
27:36So I think it's the themes
I walk in the door with,
27:40the story and the motivations
the players walk in
27:42and then the plot unfolds
from the intersection
27:45of our two things
and how the dice go.
27:47MATT: That's solid.
27:48I like that idea and I think
27:50most GMs who have a
little bit of experience
27:51do it subconsciously
to a point, but--
27:53AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: It's finding
27:54the right questions
to ask the players
27:56that tricks them into
revealing the things
27:58they're excited
to engage with.
27:59AABRIA: Yes!
SPENSER: Yeah.
28:00MATT: Without going, "Tell me
what you want your endgame to be."
28:03AABRIA: Yeah. (laughs)
MATT: You know?
28:04"What ending are you
looking for here, kid?"
28:06Where you can just in
talking about their character,
28:08finding the right
questions like that--
28:11MATT: -- to make them
unintentionally talk out loud
28:14about what they're
thinking about.
28:16AABRIA: Yes.
MATT: And how to
28:16incorporate the things
they're excited for
28:18because as players, you want
to engage with the things
28:19that make you excited and
then finding ways to turn it
28:21around on them and really
make them afraid and wanting
28:25to get there or missing
that opportunity or worse.
28:27LIAM: That's something that
you have honed as a skill
28:29and I've been gaming
with you for a decade,
28:32so maybe you were doing it to
some degree beforehand, but--
28:36AABRIA: He's talking
about you.
28:37LIAM: Getting a little bit
of information out of us
28:39and then just
doing rug yanks.
28:43AABRIA: Yeah.
28:44LIAM: Even the
last couple years,
28:45I'm like, "Fuck, he
did it to me again!"
28:46SPENSER: (laughs)
28:48AABRIA: Getting to watch
you do it up close,
28:49I'm like, "Goddamn,
clinical, rough."
28:53Glad to just be a guest.
28:55MATT and AABRIA: (laugh)
28:56MATT: It's fun, but to bring
it back to the game table, too,
29:00it's important to
know that your players
29:02are comfortable before
you do that.
29:03AABRIA: Yes, 100%.
SPENSER: Yeah.
29:04MATT: That's another important
part of the session zero,
29:06especially in a horror game
is the lines and veils,
29:08having really strong
conversations about
29:11how far players are willing
to go in the story.
29:14At what points they're
not willing to go
29:17and build a safe
space of trust
29:20to where I can yank that rug.
LIAM: Yeah.
29:22MATT: To where I know
that I can do up
29:24to this point and you
will be here for it.
29:27AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Because the bottom line
29:28is you're all still
having fun at the table.
29:30You're scared, but
scared can be fun
29:31as long as you feel
safe as players there.
29:33LIAM: Yeah.
AABRIA: Don't traumatize your players.
29:35SPENSER: Yeah. (laughs)
29:36LIAM: You get an individual--
AABRIA: Traumatize the characters.
29:38LIAM: Traumatize them
the right amount.
29:40Yeah, that's right.
The characters
29:41MATT: That's a good
distinction.
29:42LIAM: But your players
will give off an energy.
29:44I could tell from
Aimee Carrero that she,
29:47even as a player,
had a lot of hope
29:49and she really wanted to
figure out how to dance
29:52between the raindrops and
come out the other side.
29:54MATT: You don't know
anything about that.
29:55AABRIA: Nothing, I know nothing!
(laughter)
29:56LIAM: I warned her that it was
not going to be a happy thing.
30:00AABRIA: I was screaming at
the TV, going "Yeah, yeah!
30:04"She be that way."
(laughter)
30:06AABRIA: "Go off, queen."
30:06LIAM: Alex Ward, on
the other hand,
30:08just radiated
"Eviscerate me."
30:11AABRIA: Yes!
SPENSER: Yeah.
30:12LIAM: From the top
and so I knew--
30:14MATT: Just channeling
Edward Gorey
30:15at the table the entire time.
LIAM: Yeah.
30:16I wasn't planning on it,
but when we got to our ending
30:19and I wanted somebody
to get absorbed
30:23by what they were
dealing with
30:24and I knew that Alex
wasn't a worry
30:26if it was him and
luckily, it was him.
30:29SPENSER: I think it's interesting
because we can set up these,
30:32and the question in Candela
does this to some extent.
30:36AABRIA: Yes.
SPENSER: But I think as GMs,
30:37we can set up dramatic
questions for our players.
30:40AABRIA: Oh, sure.
30:42SPENSER: To touch on
what you were saying,
30:45for me in shaping that,
I want to figure out
30:47what that dramatic
question is,
30:49what they want to
know by the end
30:51and that is a shortcut
to understanding
30:55what that character's
arc might be.
30:58AABRIA: Yes.
30:59SPENSER: If I can get them to
the other side of that arc,
31:02at least get some
semblance of resolve,
31:07even if it didn't answer
it the way that
31:09they wanted it to be or even
if it wasn't perfect, right?
31:12LIAM: Which is like life.
SPENSER: Which is like life.
31:14If we can get an answer, I think
of Brennan in this, right?
31:17AABRIA: Who?
31:19LIAM: Not familiar.
SPENSER: Red-- Not familiar? That's fine.
31:22Brennan is brilliant
in so many ways. (laughs)
31:26Are you still thinking
about who Brennan is?
31:27MATT: I'm like, "I don't know
if I've met that guy."
31:28SPENSER: Yeah.
(laughter)
31:30AABRIA: He's Irish, I think
he was on that Serenity.
31:32MATT: Oh, got it.
SPENSER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:33Brennan's brilliant.
MATT: You all know each other.
31:35AABRIA: (squeak laughs)
31:37SPENSER: Brennan is
brilliant in so many ways.
31:39AABRIA: Yes.
31:39SPENSER: But one of the
things that was really fun
31:41about Brennan's
character was that
31:44the arc for him,
the question was,
31:49"Can I save my mom?"
31:52That was his
whole question, right?
31:54It didn't matter what and
it wasn't Candela-related.
31:58He was playing in that space,
but that was his whole thing
32:00and so every time
there was a question about
32:02what do I give this person,
32:03what situation
do I put this person in,
32:05it was always in opposition
32:09with the goal that he wanted
32:11or in harmony with
the goal that he wanted.
32:15MATT: Yeah.
32:17SPENSER: So that was
fascinating to watch
32:19how he took the reins
there when I gave him
32:23freedom in
the middle of episode two
32:25to watch him then take
that and run himself
32:29or I guess episode three.
32:32But knowing what that is
is so key
32:34to being able to give
the player the satisfaction
32:38that they've reached
the end of their character
32:41by the end of the campaign
or whatever you're running
32:44so that when they die,
it isn't for nothing, you know?
32:49AABRIA: It's very
funny in a game
32:50that involves
a lot of ghosts,
32:51you don't want to make a ghost
out of your players' arcs.
32:55You want them to
finish with closure.
32:59Whether or not that's
a sad ending
33:01or a happy ending
is immaterial
33:03as long as they feel like
they went through a thing
33:06and explored something and
got to the other side of it
33:10with their pants wet.
That's great.
33:11(laughter)
33:12MATT: That is viable.
AABRIA: It's great.
33:13MATT: Even if the character
doesn't get to complete
33:15their arc per se,
if you can find a way
33:18with that player as part
of that story's end
33:21to bring that weight
onto another player
33:24who's still around--
AABRIA: Oh god, yeah.
33:26MATT: -- then both
the players
33:27join your side a
little bit as a GM
33:29because now their
loss is haunting
33:31and adding to the weight
on the shoulders of those
33:33that still remain.
SPENSER: That's such a good point.
33:34AABRIA: God, I love
haunting the narrative.
33:36MATT: It's good times.
AABRIA: So fun.
33:37MATT: So we've talked
a little bit about
33:40character arcs, session zero,
33:42and building and
playing the story
33:43towards character
back stories
33:44and bringing that
all together,
33:47but a large part
of this can be,
33:49especially session
to session in Candela,
33:51kind of a monster
of the week feel,
33:54which can be easy to set
from session to session,
33:56but for those of us
that want to try
33:57and weave it together
into an overarching story
34:00where each of these
solitary-ish stories
34:04can be threaded together,
34:05what are some general
tips that you use
34:07or processes that you
go through to help
34:10prepare yourself to
thread those together?
34:14LIAM: Well, I don't know
if this is the exact answer
34:16you're looking for,
but I'll kick us off.
34:17One thing is we each ran
a three-part story, right?
34:21MATT: Mm-hmm.
34:22LIAM: I felt that if
there were a monster
34:24every single game
34:26that I would
fatigue my players
34:28and anyone watching as well.
34:29The people in this world
are certainly as scary,
34:31if not scarier,
than the monsters,
34:34so I looked for different,
34:36there's so many ways
to endanger your players.
34:38It doesn't always
have to be, you know,
34:40a supernatural creature, so
34:43I kicked off with
facing the elements
34:46and then it was
34:49murderers in a small town
34:52to a full episode of breather
34:55where they all just
talked to each other
34:57and explored their stories
34:58and their histories
and then went to a party
35:00because Taliesin needed
to Oscar Wilde.
35:03(laughter)
35:04MATT: You can't stop the boy.
AABRIA: Give the people
35:06what they want.
SPENSER: (laughs)
35:07AABRIA: Yes.
35:10LIAM: I think you said it
at one point, you can't have
35:12your players in a
constant state of anxiety
35:14the entire game every game
35:15because they'll get burnt
out, they'll get fatigued.
35:17So you do want to
find different colors
35:19and breathing room
35:20and fun as well, so that
when you do drop the hammer,
35:25they can summon all their
energy to handle that anxiety
35:27and then afterwards
(sighs), it's out.
35:30So, you know, you're
picking your moments,
35:32and I wouldn't make it a
20-butted monster every time.
35:36SPENSER: I think knowing what
kind of scope you're going for
35:41in your campaign,
35:42or at least in this chapter
that you're running,
35:45really helps for me.
35:48Any game, I'll say
we're doing 10 sessions
35:51and then let's see
after that 10 sessions
35:53where that takes us, right?
AABRIA: Yeah.
35:54SPENSER: But knowing,
35:55especially in a
game like Candela,
35:57knowing, hey, we're doing
a five-session campaign,
36:00we're doing
a 10-session campaign,
36:02or in our case a
three session campaign,
36:04which is pretty fast.
36:05So knowing that we
have that time,
36:07I can ramp up and down how
many marks I'm giving,
36:11I can ramp up and down how
fast the narrative is moving
36:14or how quickly I need to move
people through their scenes.
36:18But I think also, it tells me
36:21structurally generally
where to put things.
36:24AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: If we're doing
36:26three episodes,
36:27I'm probably going to
introduce something early on
36:30in episode one
36:31that will come back
by episode three.
36:35You get some preview of
whatever the thing is early,
36:39so we set that up and
then we pay it off later.
36:42Knowing that
I have three episodes,
36:44I know I need to do
it by episode one.
36:45AABRIA: Yep.
36:47It's really nice
that it's three,
36:49because there's so many things
around storytelling that are
36:52that rule of three,
three act structures.
36:55Even down to improv
where you're like,
36:57episode one, you're
establishing a concept.
36:59Here's a fear,
here's a theme,
37:00here's a thing
we're going to do.
37:02Two is usually
your twist for it,
37:04so right around your mid game
37:05when everyone's
comfortable with
37:08what the board state is,
37:09you do something and
pivot and go like,
37:11"Well, what if it's
actually about this?
37:12"What if--?"
37:13For Tide & Bone, it was
that early idea of
37:17we're dealing with someone's
personal horror story.
37:19We were inside of
37:21Raj's personal backstory
maw monster.
37:25You get to the second one,
37:27and now it's:
What's the turn here?
37:28You're like, oh,
the monster is now
37:30something tied
to the society.
37:32The scope's gotten
a little wider.
37:33Then you get that third act,
37:35bring it all home, big
blow out of like, no, no, no,
37:37this is something about
the history of this place.
37:39So having three and knowing
you can have an arc
37:43and a ramp up,
37:44it's that exact idea.
37:47Establish something
early, play with it,
37:50give your players time to
understand what's going on,
37:54twist it, and then blow
it up for the big finale
37:58so everything feels like:
This is exactly what I want.
38:01I'm overwhelmed by the
theme and the vibe
38:04and the feeling
and the monster
38:05and the hopelessness and
the horror of it all,
38:07but it all makes sense.
38:09I think that's the thing
that we have to strive for
38:12as GMs for this.
38:13Let the horror make
sense internally
38:15and then your players
are inside of it with you.
38:18LIAM: It can be
helpful to have,
38:21sometimes you're going
to run a game, you know,
38:22if you're running a game
for your friends at home,
38:24you could change in the
middle of what you're doing,
38:26but usually,
and I did and I think
38:29you're saying the
same thing is that
38:30you know where you're ending,
38:31you know what the ending is,
so you can be laying stuff out
38:35right from the jump
38:36that seemingly has nothing
to do with anything,
38:38and it's pointing towards
your final moments.
38:41So that's one of
the fun things
38:44for planning a mystery is
leaving little Easter eggs
38:48and clues just sitting
in plain sight
38:50that seemingly mean nothing.
38:51But if you know your ending,
you know where you're going,
38:53everything, all your clues,
all your directs and everything
38:56are all pointing
to one place.
38:58Especially in a
three game series
39:01because you don't
have a lot of time,
39:02so everything is pointing,
even though they can't tell,
39:06towards one direction,
the band.
39:08SPENSER: Yeah. (laughs)
39:10Speaking of that, Matt,
I'd love to know from you,
39:13you spearheaded
our first season.
39:15AABRIA: (laughs)
39:17SPENSER: So--
MATT: No pressure.
39:17AABRIA: Way to set
the fucking tone!
39:19It was beautiful.
39:21SPENSER: Starting off
with episode one,
39:24how did you plan
39:27your clues out?
39:29How did you plan
your mystery out?
39:32And how would you
recommend people do that
39:35as they move into
their own games?
39:37MATT: I had built my
first three episodes
39:40to be equal parts
a horror story,
39:43but also an introduction to
the setting and the mood.
39:47So it means that the themes
maybe weren't as strong
39:51as some of the later seasons,
39:53because it was--
AABRIA: Yes, they were.
39:55I'm going to yell
at you about that.
39:56SPENSER: (laughs)
AABRIA: (laughs)
39:57MATT: Well, I mean in
the sense that it was
39:59running dual
purpose for this,
40:01and so it had to have tandem--
LIAM: You had to have two.
40:03Multiple, yeah.
40:04MATT: Had tandem points here.
40:05I was just trying
to establish it as
40:06a monster of the
week is a thread,
40:09but there is a common
thread through them all,
40:11and the larger threat
actually is a societal threat
40:14than it is a particular
creature threat.
40:16LIAM and AABRIA: Yeah.
40:17MATT: Exposing the
audience as well as
40:19hopefully new players
to Candela that
40:21there are many factions
in this world
40:23and many people
and many things
40:25that are working against
the greater good
40:27and the dangers
through the history.
40:29So for me, a lot of it was
knowing that I wanted to end
40:32with the Red Hand
and their involvement,
40:34and that the real
horror here is people
40:37repeating the mistakes
of the past,
40:39trying to capitalize on
things they don't understand,
40:43and what horrors are
unleashed in that process.
40:46The exploitation of what
isn't fully understood,
40:50the misuse of technology,
40:52not that we know
anything about that.
40:53AABRIA: Probably not.
SPENSER: (laughs)
40:54MATT: So that was
the core theme.
40:57I knew where I wanted it to end,
to what you were saying,
41:00and then in that space,
telling myself
41:02what are the important
facets of this mystery?
41:04What's the information
that will lead them
41:06to the next thing I
want them to get to?
41:07What's the information
that's going to lead them
41:09from that to the next thing?
41:11What different pieces
must they know
41:14to put together this mystery?
41:16Then making sure
41:18that I have some ideas
of where they will go,
41:19but make sure
they're modular.
41:21AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Make it so that,
41:22oh, they missed talking
to that guy.
41:23well, oh god, he's the only
guy that would know.
41:26That puts you in a really
bad position as a GM.
41:28AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: Yeah, yeah.
41:28MATT: So he might know,
but who else might know?
41:30Or where else can they
discover this information?
41:32Can what this person
know also be found
41:33in a drawer in
someone's desk?
41:36Can this also be delivered by
someone on their dying breath
41:38as they come running out of
a scuffle in the street?
41:41Keeping in mind that the
very important information
41:44to help the players un--
41:45pardon, unravel this
mystery can be
41:49recovered by the players at
multiple points in the story
41:52and in places where you
don't expect them to go
41:54in ways you don't expect them
to have it handed to them.
41:57Because then you
don't end up in
41:58that terrible position that
many of us GMs end up doing
42:01where you build this mystery
and the players go
42:02in a completely different
direction and you're like,
42:06"How do I fix this now?
42:07"We're completely
off the rails
42:08"and how am I going to get
back to this ending?"
42:10So you have to have a little
bit of forethought to that
42:12and how you build
that mystery out
42:14and be flexible with how you
present that to the players.
42:16LIAM: I have to make
a confession
42:19about my chapter now,
42:20because you're
absolutely right,
42:22and yet--
42:23I did that for many
aspects of my chapter,
42:26and yet, I made a
bottleneck for myself
42:31with no other option.
42:32They had to go through
this one point,
42:36and I was terrified of it the
entire way up to the moment,
42:40and everything that
happened in that moment
42:42bore my fears out to be true,
42:44and I still somehow
threaded the needle.
42:47In my last game,
they end up in Oldfaire,
42:51and then they find
42:55what I loosely
was thinking of
42:56as a vault of
powerful artifacts
42:59that Calinus had
created in Oldfaire.
43:02There was a room where
another circle lay dead.
43:08But it wasn't a room,
it was a platform to go down
43:13even further than Oldfaire.
43:15So that was another thing
I wanted to do with my chapter
43:16was have my party get as
low as possible and be like,
43:19"God, we couldn't go
any lower than this,"
43:20and then drop them
the same amount.
43:22AABRIA: Ugh!
MATT: Hmm.
43:24But I didn't have any backup
passageways or anything else.
43:27I was like, I have to
lure them into this.
43:29It's a little box trap
43:32with a piece of
food underneath,
43:33and I had to get the
raccoon to go under the box
43:36and then pull the string.
43:38I was like, man. I mean,
I guess I could improvise.
43:40I'll figure something out,
43:41but I really just
want them to go
43:43for the food under
my box trap.
43:46They got into this chamber,
43:48and there I was
describing the room,
43:50and I'm not sure who it was
because I was disassociating.
43:53(laughter)
43:54AABRIA: That's so real.
SPENSER: That's so--
43:55MATT: Uh-huh.
AABRIA: Yeah.
43:56LIAM: I think it was Alex,
but I'm not sure.
43:59MATT: Oh, Liam's just
so into the story.
44:00(laughter)
44:02LIAM: I'm describing what's
going on around them,
44:03and I think Alex maybe said,
44:05"We got to get the
fuck out of here,"
44:06and all the (sirens blare).
44:08I got to pull the string
44:10before you get out
from under my box trap.
44:12I think I just went,
"Look over here!
44:14"Look over here!"
with my description
44:16for something for
another 15 seconds
44:18to stop them from saying,
44:20"Let's get out of here now,"
to trigger them going down.
44:23So don't do that.
44:25Don't do what I did.
AABRIA: No, it's okay.
44:26MATT: No, no, no! I disagree.
AABRIA: It's okay.
44:27LIAM: It was such a gamble.
AABRIA: We're going to fight
44:28and be like,
it's a gamble, but
44:32my recommendation would
be if you know
44:35you have to get them
to follow a tasty morsel,
44:38you seed the tasty
morsel in their backstory.
44:41All of you had
ties to Oldfaire
44:42that you came up
with on your own
44:44that I got delighted by
and kept developing.
44:46So if you see the
tasty morsel before,
44:49but that's my favorite
secret for mysteries.
44:51Which is, put it
in their backstory
44:53so then all of a sudden
they remember and care.
44:54Sometimes they don't remember,
and that's okay, too.
44:56MATT: (laughs)
SPENSER: (laughs)
44:57AABRIA: Both things happen.
MATT: I'll say also, too,
44:59if you have those linchpin
parts of the story
45:02that you've built, it's
okay to remind yourself
45:05that you know everything and
the players know nothing.
45:07AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Often, I'll say this
45:09whenever I'm a player, we'll
be oblivious to a lot of the--
45:12AABRIA: (laughs)
MATT: -- things you say.
45:14Sometimes,
you have to be overt.
45:16AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Sometimes you
45:16have to be a little
more forceful
45:19with the important
information
45:21than you might think
is comfortable.
45:23But honestly, most of time,
45:25the players don't
see it that way,
45:26and it helps them go,
"Oh, maybe that is important."
45:29AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Or you end up
45:30finding a chair in the room
45:31that your players obsess
over the entire episode.
45:34SPENSER: I was going to
say, it's crazy
45:35because I feel like sometimes
I'm hitting the theme
45:39over the head so hard,
45:42and yet when I go
back and watch it,
45:45and I'm not in my own
head, I'm like, oh,
45:47I actually didn't--
AABRIA: Oh, it's true!
45:48MATT: Yeah, it feels so much
louder in your own head
45:50than it does to players.
SPENSER: Yes!
45:51Because I know what I'm doing
45:53and everybody else
is just observing
45:54what the effects of that are.
45:56So even just taking
it back to themes,
45:59not being afraid to
hit the theme twice,
46:02three times, four times.
AABRIA: Yes.
46:04SPENSER: If you
have a question
46:06about how an NPC might react,
46:08and you have a theme that
you know you're trying to hit
46:09for that character, mirror
that theme back to them,
46:12hit it over the head
because it's going to take
46:15three or four times for it
to come through in full.
46:17LIAM: I would argue, maybe
not for all players,
46:19certainly for me,
46:21and I think for many
players, is you really,
46:23maybe it's contradictory,
but you really want both.
46:25You want that sense of freedom
to be able to do anything.
46:27But also, at times I'm like,
46:30"Where are we going?"
46:32I don't mind subtle
little nudges
46:35because I'm like,
"Oh, I got you,"
46:36and then I start
moving with it.
46:37Then, I always liken it to
both for running these games
46:40and being a player
in tabletop games to
46:43if you're doing the
same show on stage
46:44for three months, right,
46:45you still have to
stand at the table.
46:47You still have to go and pull
open the door the same way.
46:49You still have to
yell specific lines
46:51because you've been
directed to do as such,
46:53but it doesn't mean it's going
to be the same every time.
46:56There is still, it's
not a perfect analogy,
46:58but even though in a
three game structure
47:01where there's not too much
time to go all over the map
47:05and wander about because we're
on a train and it's moving,
47:10there's still a world of
creativity and randomness
47:14and surprise within
those confines.
47:18MATT: It's finding where to
nudge and find those bumpers.
47:21If you need them to go
to this particular place
47:23where the floor is going
to fall out from under them
47:24and carry them into a space,
47:26and all of a sudden,
the players are like,
47:28"I don't,
that place seems dangerous.
47:29"We don't want to go,"
47:30that's where you know,
47:32you quickly go, "Someone
runs that direction saying,
47:35"'I saw something
glowing in that chamber.
47:36"'Go call the police.
47:37"'There's a mystery afoot,'"
and they're like,
47:39"Hmm, maybe we should
go check out that room."
47:41Or you know, if
there's an object
47:44they need to touch in your
narrative that you've built
47:47to trigger
a vision of the past,
47:49but they go, "All right,
47:51"if this room seems clear,
we can leave."
47:53You can come in and be like,
"As you're about to leave,
47:55"you turn over your shoulder,
47:56"and you feel
this tugging sensation,
47:57"like a whisper in your ear,
47:59"and as you glance
back in the shadow,
48:00"this gem seems to
glow a little brighter
48:02"than the rest of
the darkness around it."
48:04You know, it still
feels narrative-focused,
48:06and it's just
a little gentle nudge
48:07that tells the players
48:08the story here that's
interesting isn't done yet,
48:11and it doesn't
force them into that,
48:13but it also lets you know,
48:15"Hey, I built
something cool for you,
48:16"you might want
to check it out."
48:17LIAM: That's essentially
what I did, which was
48:19"It's at that moment that
you notice one detail that pops
48:23"that you
hadn't noticed before,"
48:24and it made everybody
slow down long enough for me
48:27to drop the floor
out from under them.
48:28AABRIA: It is one of
those things that
48:29if you're doing your job
right, your table is scared,
48:33and I don't know, I don't
have access to my whole brain
48:36whenever I feel
any strong emotion,
48:38so I think there's
a moment to advocate
48:41for player grace here
where you're like,
48:42"I've fully freaked you out.
48:44"You're probably not
picking up all the clues
48:46"I'm putting down
because you're scared
48:48"of the 21-butted spider
just outside the door."
48:51MATT: I had a monster with
a lot of butts in my story.
48:53I feel like this is
kind of pointed, at this point.
48:55(laughter)
48:56AABRIA: And it's the scariest
thing that's ever existed.
48:59Could you imagine
all the poop?
49:00MATT: Yeah, yeah.
AABRIA: Terrifying.
49:02MATT: That's pretty scary.
49:03AABRIA: But yeah,
having that sense of
49:06if you're worried
that you're like,
49:07"I feel like I'm dropping
a million clues,"
49:08and you're like, "Your
players are thinking about
49:11"30,000 things right now
and trying to do right
49:14"by their characterization
and the story
49:16"and they might not be thinking
with the full faculties
49:20"that you as the GM
currently have access to."
49:22MATT: Yeah, and the modularity
and gentle bumper concept
49:27helps a lot when players
have terrible rolls
49:30and the things that you
want them to get to,
49:32they make
really weird choices
49:34or the dice say, "Nah, you're
going to fail repeatedly,"
49:38to the point where the logic
of the story at the moment
49:41doesn't allow them to access
that part of the mystery
49:44that you think is
important for it to continue.
49:47Then you let them rest a bit.
49:48If you have to, take
a break, everyone,
49:50eat and think on
it to the side
49:51and think of where else they
can acquire this knowledge.
49:53Who else can come
into the story--
49:54LIAM: Yeah, it's a hot potato.
MATT: -- and guide them back on.
49:56SPENSER: Well, I think to
something that all of you
49:58touched on is one of the
ways you can guide players
50:02in a gentle GM way that
doesn't restrict their
50:07ability to do
whatever they want,
50:09but gives them
guidance on like:
50:10Hey, this is where our story is
interesting to me as the GM.
50:15Because players do that
all the time, right?
50:17They tell you what they're
interested in all the time
50:18by what they do, so
as a GM, it's our job
50:20to also indicate what's
interesting to us
50:22and to showcase like:
Hey, this is the area
50:25that the narrative
is pointing you to
50:28is describing something
specific in detail, right?
50:33is describing something
specific in detail, right?
50:34I know I've watched
all of you do this
50:35in a really cool way.
MATT: For better or for worse.
50:37(laughter)
MATT: Sometimes accidentally.
50:39SPENSER: But it's what you were
just talking about, right,
50:40where you're like, "I'm drawing
their attention to a thing,
50:42"but I'm describing--"
50:43I remember, for me,
one of those moments was
50:46when they walked
into the room
50:50when they walked
into the room
50:52of one of the characters in
the chapter that I did was in
50:55and they were like,
"Is there anything off here?"
50:57They rolled and they
rolled a mixed success
50:59and it was everything
seems normal,
51:02but there's a lamp
that's just slightly askew.
51:06And just by giving
that morsel,
51:08that doesn't tell
them everything,
51:10but it does give
them enough doubt--
51:12AABRIA: Yes.
SPENSER: That they then go,
51:14"Oh, we'll stay here
for another beat."
51:16AABRIA: Yeah.
51:17SPENSER: So by using
those pinpoint--
51:19If you describe
everything very vague
51:22and then one brick
in a brick wall
51:24as being of a
particular color,
51:26players are going to
go investigate that.
51:27LIAM: I've always felt it's a
little bit like closeup magic,
51:29like sleight of hand magic.
AABRIA: Yeah.
51:31MATT: Very much so.
SPENSER: I want you to look here.
51:32LIAM and AABRIA: Yeah.
51:33MATT: Sleight of word.
51:34AABRIA: I will say,
that brought me to a thing
51:37I wanted to mention earlier
so thank you for reminding me.
51:39In a game with a mystery,
everyone's an investigator,
51:42so you don't really have
the plot hound person
51:46at a normal fantasy game
table where you're like,
51:49there's one guy, he's always
here with a high investigation
51:52and he wants to go
investigate every room
51:54before you get in there.
51:55I'm trying not
to look at Liam.
51:56(laughter)
51:58LIAM: Is it me? I don't have
a book full of notes.
52:00AABRIA: Orym's 31 perception
means nothing is ever missed.
52:04But the idea--
LIAM: It's 33.
52:05AABRIA: I'm so sorry,
that's on me.
52:08God, that's insane,
yeah, drink more.
52:11MATT: I spilled.
I'm a messy baby.
52:13(laughter)
52:14AABRIA: No.
52:16But there is something
inside of like,
52:18since everyone's
investigating together,
52:21hearing the way your players
ask to investigate a room,
52:24if everyone's walking in and
they have to find the clues,
52:26listen to how your players ask
about the information there
52:30and you can feed clues
based on the style
52:33of what they look for.
MATT: Yeah.
52:35AABRIA: So if you're like,
"How do I feed them this mystery?"
52:37If someone comes in and goes,
"I'm going to go find a person,"
52:41and if that's their first
impulse, you're like:
52:42Great, I know that I just
have to put a person
52:45with a clue in any room
52:47where I need to
get you information
52:48and my one
interpersonal person
52:50will always go run to
talk to them first.
52:52If there's someone that's
always going to be like,
52:54"I'm going to go
look at the art
52:56and see if I can see
anything there."
52:57You're like: Great, you
tell me how to give you clues
53:00based on walking into a room
53:02that's been
vaguely described,
53:03if you tell me how you
look for something,
53:05I'll learn to feed you clues
53:07and it becomes that much
easier to get you down the path.
53:10MATT: On the same topic
of feeding players
53:12what they're looking for,
53:14also shifting the narrative
based on mixed successes.
53:18AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Which is,
53:19especially for players
who aren't familiar
53:20with a lot of
narrative-form games,
53:23to get used to the idea of
what kind of consequences
53:26you can introduce
during these stories.
53:28What are some of your favorite
inspirations in the moment
53:32to explain to players
what the consequences are
53:36for a mixed success
in Candela?
53:38AABRIA: You have to answer
this first. (laughs)
53:40SPENSER: So I love
53:44listening and responding
as my main GM move,
53:48ask questions and
build on the answers,
53:50listen and respond, and
that is the scariest way
53:54to do mixed successes
53:55because you just can't
plan for them, right?
53:57But listening to the
situation and them describe
54:01what they want to do,
54:02and then thinking about
a way that I can give them
54:04what they want, but
there is some twist
54:08that either doesn't
give it to them fully,
54:10or gives it to them in a
way that sets them up
54:12to actually be in a
worse position now,
54:14even though they
have the info,
54:16and so it's hard to
quantify what that is,
54:18but I think the biggest tool
is doing your work as the GM
54:23on the front side to be able
to go like: What do they want?
54:28What are they willing
to do to get it?
54:29AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: What is this situation
54:31asking of them?
54:33What do the other people
54:34that are maybe opposed
to them want here?
54:37And how can I give them, how
can I push the story forward,
54:43advance the narrative,
and also put them
54:46in a more dangerous
spot because of it?
54:48All of those questions have
to be processed pretty quick
54:50and that can be intimidating
54:52and so oftentimes you
can step back and go like:
54:58What do you want and what
are you willing to get?
55:00What are you willing
to do for it?
55:01AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: Like that is
55:02the basic of that
55:04and sometimes I will even,
I don't think I did it here,
55:06but in home games,
55:08sometimes I'll even
ask them for that.
55:10AABRIA: Oh yeah,
I love asking for that.
55:13SPENSER: Right?
AABRIA: They're like,
55:14"Don't hand me
the rope, no!"
55:16SPENSER: Because they will--
AABRIA: You tell me.
55:18SPENSER: Yeah, in specific moments,
if you're drawing a blank,
55:22they will give you something
55:23worse than you would
ever do to them.
55:25MATT: Oh yeah.
AABRIA: It is true.
55:26MATT: My mom, whenever
I got in trouble, she'd be like,
55:29"And what do you think
your punishment should be?"
55:32"Two weeks grounded?"
55:33She'd be like, "I was going to
ground you for one week, but sure."
55:34I'm like, "God dang it!"
AABRIA: No!
55:36MATT: That actually happened
to me a few times.
55:38SPENSER: So maybe that's
not as actionable of advice
55:41because it's a little more
esoteric, a little more vague,
55:43but like, allowing
yourself the freedom
55:47to be able to go, "Okay, how
can the narrative turn here
55:50"in an interesting way
for all of us?"
55:52MATT: Yeah, especially
when you're in spaces,
55:54I find that that's
easier to come up with
55:56in action set pieces
in which there's--
56:00people are already pushing
towards something
56:01in which time is very much a
fluid resource that is fading
56:06and so you can put
obstacles in the way,
56:08you can have people get hurt,
56:09you could have things
they're searching for
56:11be blocked from them.
56:11You could have things they're
chasing get further away.
56:15Action set pieces, I think,
naturally are easier to go with.
56:18It's the the quiet spaces
where it can get challenging,
56:21in which case, I love
using atmospheric triggers
56:24that start a timer.
AABRIA: Ooh.
56:25MATT: If you're
investigating a scene
56:27and they roll a mixed
success, but you find it,
56:29but you hear a door
slam in the distance
56:31and you don't know what
that is and you're like,
56:32"Fuck, fuck, okay,
we got to go."
56:33You don't even might know
what that door is,
56:35but already you've, that
this is a consequence,
56:38an ethereal consequence
56:40that already ups
their personal anxiety
56:43and puts them on an
imaginary timer.
56:46SPENSER: It's an indicate
coming danger GM move
56:48that we talk about.
56:49MATT: So using the atmosphere
outside of their periphery,
56:54using their senses, all of a
sudden you grab something,
56:56as you pick it up, suddenly
you smell something
56:58very iron-like in the air
that wasn't there before,
57:00but it's sourceless,
57:02playing with the senses
as part of a consequence
57:04that can eventually tie into
what the overall threat
57:08or mounting dark danger that
surrounds them could be from
57:11is a fun way to do it without
having to be specific,
57:14but you can always tie that
in with whatever the danger
57:16is that's coming closer and
here's how you express that.
57:19AABRIA: 100%.
SPENSER: Yeah, it's that
57:22make a move offscreen
57:24where you are doing
a thing as the GM,
57:27but you go, "You're
fine for now."
57:29That's another one if you
can't think of something
57:30in the moment, think
about how you could advance
57:33a future scene, a
future moment and then--
57:35MATT: Indicate
it to the players--
57:37SPENSER: Indicate to players.
MATT: In the same time.
57:37It's something like,
"You're fine for now."
57:41But then how can you also
goose that a little bit?
57:44Rick mixed success,
what happened?
57:45Nothing, but for some
reason your left hand
57:48just got a little tingly.
57:49You can't really
feel your fingertips.
57:51AABRIA: Am I having
a heart attack?
57:52MATT: I mean, I guess
you could do that, too.
57:54AABRIA: You've given me heart disease.
LIAM: You smell toast.
57:56AABRIA: (laughs)
You smell toast!
57:58(laughter)
57:59AABRIA: I'm going to use
that from now on.
58:00Mixed success? Eggs?
58:02MATT: (laughs)
AABRIA: You smell eggs.
58:05SPENSER: I think it is the
biggest challenge for GMs
58:08in coming from more
binary kinds of games
58:11to these kinds of
games is how do I
58:14constantly come up
with complications
58:15because the mixed success
58:17is the most common
result on the dice, right,
58:20so that's the muscle
that has to be learned of--
58:25Easy ways, I could
give them a brain mark
58:27because it's stressful
what they're doing.
58:29Those are easy go-tos.
58:32I could have the person
they're talking to be like,
58:34"I'm going to give
you this information,"
58:36and then cut off, but we're
done here and walk away.
58:39There are go-tos that
you can have happen
58:41that are a little bit
easier to quantify
58:45or put in a list.
AABRIA: Yeah.
58:46SPENSER: But I think that the
ones that are the most useful
58:49and powerful for us as
storytellers are the things
58:51that come out of all those
things you talked about,
58:53the theme, the moment,
the narrative,
58:55where we hope the
story is going
58:56and how to indicate
that to the players.
58:58AABRIA: I think, oh sorry.
I was just going to say--
59:01LIAM: Let's all apologize
to each other.
59:02MATT: Sorry, guys.
SPENSER: I'm sorry.
59:03MATT: I'm sorry.
AABRIA: I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
59:05LIAM: Never done anything
wrong in my life.
59:07(laughter)
59:10AABRIA: Sort of weighing
what you all have said.
59:13I always, I think of it
as the want versus need.
59:16What do you want
in this moment?
59:16That's why you're rolling.
59:18What do you need longer
term and long scale,
59:20is as simple as often
it is my health or sanity
59:24or the things that
you can easily mark up,
59:27but a lot of times it's time
59:29and that's where
you start to play
59:30with that atmospheric things.
59:32You can start to bring
in character things, too,
59:33where you're like, "You
want something that is good
59:36"for the party right now,
59:37"but the cost is something
you need in your arc."
59:40If you're playing
with Brennan
59:42who wants to have
his character save his mom,
59:45the thing that you
lose is some tether
59:47to that bigger question
where you're like,
59:50"There's something
about your mom here
59:51"and that is closed
to you now.
59:53"Anyway, keep going."
59:55That's the calculus I came
up with when I started running
59:58a bunch of PBTA games back
in the day where you're like:
01:00:01Another hard move.
What does that mean?
01:00:03MATT: Yeah.
LIAM: What I was going to say,
01:00:05I was going to talk about
why I like the system
01:00:08that you guys built for this
because it's very different
01:00:10than another tabletop or say,
01:00:13if you're playing
"Final Fantasy VII"
01:00:15or any video game--
01:00:16MATT: Don't you talk bad about
"Final Fantasy VII."
01:00:18LIAM: It's a lovely game,
01:00:20but it's one kind of game.
AABRIA: "It's a lovely game."
01:00:21LIAM: Where you have
01:00:23an enemy or a monster or
a whatever with a stat block
01:00:26and your hero
has a stat block
01:00:28and there's
some randomization,
01:00:29but you're throwing
stat block versus stat block
01:00:31and see what comes
out on the other side.
01:00:32That's not really
what this is.
01:00:34It's really just
a temperature read
01:00:37for what's going on
in the story.
01:00:38This is a very
story-centric system,
01:00:42and at least my
interpretation of it is
01:00:43that all the rolls and the
failures and the successes
01:00:46are not like, "I've taken away
25% of the monster's life,
01:00:50"50% of the monster's life."
01:00:51It is really just upbeat
in the story, downbeat.
01:00:54And you're being surprised
moment to moment to moment
01:00:56and going with
whichever direction
01:01:00a dice roll takes you,
01:01:01it's just, is the
character feeling up?
01:01:03Is the character
feeling down?
01:01:04Are they safe or do
they just get hurt?
01:01:07Are they feeling good vibes
01:01:08or are they feeling bad vibes
moment to moment to moment?
01:01:10And at the end of it,
there's a story.
01:01:12MATT: Yeah, I think that's
a good way to put it
01:01:13because success,
failure, and mixed success
01:01:16can feel like three
separate things
01:01:19and the challenge is people
who are used to binary RPGs
01:01:21often is, what's
this third option?
01:01:25Which, with experience,
you begin to build
01:01:27a bag of tricks for that,
01:01:28but also you can consider it
as opposed to three options,
01:01:30it's just a scale.
AABRIA: Yes.
01:01:32MATT: You have success,
you have failure,
01:01:33and the mixed success
is in the middle
01:01:36to the point where
it's like success,
01:01:37they get what they want.
01:01:38Failure, they do not get
what they want
01:01:40and bad things happen.
01:01:41The mixed successes,
they get what they want
01:01:44and bad things
come at the same time.
01:01:47You're just mixing the two.
01:01:48You're finding that in between.
LIAM: Fucking Imari, sorry.
01:01:50(laughter)
01:01:53MATT: We love you, Imari.
01:01:54AABRIA: Unfortunately, Liam has
no idea what a mixed success is
01:01:56because they rolled out--
MATT: I know.
01:01:57AABRIA: -- crazy.
01:01:59MATT: You'll get 'em
next time, buddy.
01:02:00LIAM: Yeah.
AABRIA: Aw, that's rough.
01:02:03Getting the,
"That's rough, buddy"
01:02:04from the GM Roundtable
(laughs) is crazy!
01:02:08LIAM: I got 'em in the end.
01:02:10MATT: You did it, you did!
AABRIA: You did!
01:02:11MATT: I'm proud of you.
LIAM: Didn't make it easy, though.
01:02:12MATT: They never do.
They never do.
01:02:15Well, to that point, we
have a lot of agency as GMs
01:02:18and we want to
empower the players.
01:02:20Some players can be shyer,
01:02:22some players can
be more outgoing.
01:02:24Especially in tense moments,
01:02:26people might be
very invested.
01:02:28How do you speed
up the narrative
01:02:33along with the players without
stepping on their toes,
01:02:35without feeling
like you've taken
01:02:38a little bit of the
agency away from them,
01:02:40or how do you keep
it player-driven,
01:02:42especially in moments of
high action and tension?
01:02:45SPENSER: Well, to
touch on something
01:02:46that maybe would
be applicable
01:02:49to the last conversation
and this conversation,
01:02:51one of the moves that
you can make as a GM
01:02:54is to raise the stakes.
AABRIA: Yeah.
01:02:56SPENSER: So in
a mixed success,
01:02:58they get what they want,
but the stakes are raised.
01:03:00In this system, we
specifically have standard,
01:03:03and low, and high
stakes, right?
01:03:05So I can take a situation
and think about how as a GM
01:03:08I can push it from
standard to high,
01:03:12as a move to showcase
why that success was mixed.
01:03:16In this situation also,
where a player is like I--
01:03:19There's a little bit of
reticence to action, right?
01:03:21It's like we don't quite
know where we're going.
01:03:24We're having a hard
time making a decision.
01:03:26By ramping up the
stakes of the situation,
01:03:28making that move as a GM,
01:03:29you can force them into,
01:03:31"We have to
make a decision now."
01:03:32MATT: Yeah.
SPENSER: That's something
01:03:33that we see happen often
I think at all of our tables
01:03:36of they want to
think about things
01:03:38the longest
they possibly can,
01:03:39but because we are playing
a narrative-focused game,
01:03:41it's not about planning,
it's about acting.
01:03:44So how do we give them
the opportunity to do that?
01:03:48It's a balance
of not taking away
01:03:49too much agency
and being like,
01:03:51"I'm putting you in
a bad situation
01:03:53"because you guys
didn't do something."
01:03:54It's like: "I'm taking the--
01:03:57"I am using my position as
the GM to showcase for you
01:04:02"what happens when
you don't act."
01:04:04MATT: Yeah, you heard the door
slam off in the distance earlier,
01:04:06now you're hearing it slamming
into the door behind you
01:04:09and the wood's
starting to splinter.
01:04:10SPENSER: Exactly.
MATT: Yeah.
01:04:11AABRIA: I think those
are those important beats
01:04:15where you're like:
Great, you have a new thing,
01:04:17the stakes are even higher
01:04:19in order to keep people
from worrying too much about,
01:04:22Oh, the stakes are raised,
01:04:23we have to make
the perfect choice
01:04:24or everything will be bad.
01:04:26I definitely love taking
those opportunities
01:04:30as an edit in improv, but
focusing down on one person,
01:04:34usually the person
01:04:35that is a little withdrawn
from a given situation
01:04:39and going: It's not
that you're withdrawn,
01:04:42but you have the best eyes
on everything that's going on
01:04:44because you're not inside of
01:04:46whatever big moment
is happening
01:04:47that's keeping us inside of a
scene or inside of an energy.
01:04:50So you, in your head,
in your heart,
01:04:53something needs to change.
01:04:54I'm going to ask you
to be our edit here.
01:04:57What do you want to do?
01:04:58MATT: Yeah.
01:04:59AABRIA: Using that
to piggyback:
01:05:01Great, you've made a choice,
01:05:03now we're all going to follow
it or splinter away from it,
01:05:06but action has been
asked for and delivered.
01:05:08MATT: Yeah, finding a
quiet moment of focus
01:05:10in the midst of the chaos.
01:05:11In a very cinematic
way, be like--
01:05:13AABRIA: Yeah!
MATT: -- as everything's crazy,
01:05:14shift over to this one player
01:05:15and be like: Right now,
01:05:16you can feel your heart
beating in your ears.
01:05:19All of a sudden, you have
a moment of clarity here.
01:05:21What do you want to do?
01:05:22AABRIA: Yeah, and it's this
beautiful spotlighting moment
01:05:24for players that may
hang back a little bit
01:05:27inside of big moments to go:
It's a feature, not a bug.
01:05:31What you've done is
actually super important
01:05:33to this moment right now
01:05:34because you're unique
in your ability
01:05:36to make a choice
for the group.
01:05:38You're all leaders,
01:05:39make the choice here
and we'll all follow it.
01:05:41I think it's good praxis
for the table to be like,
01:05:45"Everyone makes decisions,
01:05:46"and we're going to spotlight
and share focus,
01:05:48"and scoot along
from an energy
01:05:50"into the next thing
that's going to happen."
01:05:52MATT: Oh yeah.
LIAM: I also,
01:05:52outside of the game,
encouraged everybody--
01:05:55I like it when
players step up
01:05:56as sort of Deputy GM
for chunks of time,
01:05:59and telling Taliesin,
01:06:01"Tell me what you're
wearing, go nuts."
01:06:03I know I'm going to
just listen for 10 minutes.
01:06:04AABRIA: (laughs)
01:06:05LIAM: And I love that.
01:06:06There's nothing
wrong with that.
01:06:09So I encouraged
everyone to, you know,
01:06:11if you're comfortable
and you want to,
01:06:12and you have a
scene or a moment
01:06:14or something you
want to pursue,
01:06:16you don't need my permission,
01:06:17go ahead and I'll
come along with you.
01:06:19AABRIA: Yeah.
LIAM: But,
01:06:21every player is different,
01:06:22and some people are happy
to leap in and do that
01:06:24and some people are
way more reticent.
01:06:27So I would also have
ideas for things
01:06:31that I could toss at
that reticent player,
01:06:34like you're saying
about zeroing in on them
01:06:36if they are hesitant
01:06:37and aren't going to jump
into the ring on their own.
01:06:41Oh, and sometimes, they'll
surprise me and do it anyway.
01:06:43So having an option in
my back pocket is nice,
01:06:45but not being married to it,
01:06:47to just go with
wherever the energy
01:06:51between you and that
one specific player is.
01:06:53AABRIA: Yeah.
LIAM: Then you throw it all
01:06:54out the window anyway, so.
01:06:55AABRIA: I mean, that's the
secret to all of this.
01:06:57We can talk all day long
about here's all your tools.
01:06:59You're like: I've got a case
full of cards and I'm Gambit,
01:07:04and eventually you'll let
me throw one of these.
01:07:06It's mostly you're
chasing your friends
01:07:08down a spooky story
01:07:09and being like:
Yeah, there's a monster!
01:07:11Keep going! Why are
you going that way?
01:07:12Sure, okay!
01:07:13(laughter)
01:07:15SPENSER: Well, and I love--
AABRIA: Yeet! (laughs)
01:07:17SPENSER: Like you were
talking about, I love
01:07:18empowering players,
01:07:19and I think there's
a really interesting
01:07:22freedom and respect
01:07:24and trust that can
be born out of a table
01:07:29where you as the GM
give them the ability
01:07:31to narrate sometimes
01:07:33in a way that they
wouldn't typically expect.
01:07:36I remember there was
a scene, Zehra,
01:07:38who was fairly new to
tabletop role playing games,
01:07:41an incredible player.
01:07:42There was a scene where Luis
01:07:45was playing himself
when he was younger
01:07:48and was being--
01:07:51Zehra's character,
Jean's father,
01:07:53was coming to do essentially
a seance or exorcism
01:07:56was coming to do essentially
a seance or exorcism
01:07:59or something on him.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
01:08:00SPENSER: So I just
let Zehra and Luis
01:08:02do that scene together.
AABRIA: Oh yeah.
01:08:03SPENSER: Zehra playing
her father, right?
01:08:05I could have played her
father, but I was like,
01:08:06"I don't know your father."
01:08:08That also was born out of
"We're playing three sessions,
01:08:10"I don't know your
father like you do,"
01:08:12and I also know thematically
01:08:13that the father figure
in her backstory
01:08:16was really important to her.
01:08:17I didn't want to
mess it up, right,
01:08:18I didn't want
to step on toes.
01:08:20But then, they did a scene
for 10 minutes together
01:08:23and we all got to,
at the table,
01:08:26just got to hang out--
AABRIA: So fun.
01:08:26SPENSER: -- and watch the
movie that was happening.
01:08:27MATT: I love those
moments so much.
01:08:28AABRIA: Bro, when
you get to be fan
01:08:30and audience member one,
01:08:32the best.
SPENSER: It's so good.
01:08:34But it also gave them
01:08:37the feeling of
agency in a way
01:08:41that I really enjoyed seeing
them open up after that.
01:08:45So I think it's
a powerful technique
01:08:47and obviously we can't
do it all the time as GMs,
01:08:49but if we can find
those certain moments
01:08:52to gift them that time
01:08:55for them to run
with some agency
01:08:59in a way that maybe they
wouldn't have typically.
01:09:02I think also to
piggyback on that,
01:09:05there's a difference for me
01:09:08in a group of characters
trying to scramble
01:09:13to figure out what to do
in a high stakes moment,
01:09:15and you as the GM
putting pressure on them
01:09:17in the narrative
to make a choice,
01:09:20and a player who
you need to have
01:09:22a little more patience with
01:09:23because they are
overwhelmed by the system
01:09:26or overwhelmed by role
playing games in general.
01:09:29I think being able to
differentiate as the GM
01:09:32how much pressure can I
put on them via the narrative
01:09:37versus how much patience
01:09:38and guidance do
I need to give them
01:09:40as their friend
and their guide,
01:09:43essentially, to this game.
01:09:46Being able to make those calls
I think is really important.
01:09:48To be frank,
01:09:49I was worried when
I gave Zehra
01:09:50the opportunity to do that,
01:09:51that she would feel
overwhelmed, right?
01:09:53So it was this--
01:09:55I was there to support
her if she was like,
01:09:57"Oh, I don't know
how to do that."
01:09:59But being there as a support
pillar for your friends
01:10:02But being there as a support
pillar for your friends
01:10:05and also putting them
in bad situations
01:10:08is the bread and
butter of a GM.
01:10:10We are the heel in wrestling.
AABRIA: (laughs)
01:10:11MATT: Yeah.
SPENSER: Right?
01:10:12AABRIA: God, yes.
MATT: Yep.
01:10:13SPENSER: We're doing kayfabe.
AABRIA: All day long.
01:10:15MATT: It's fun to
play it up, too.
01:10:16SPENSER: Yeah.
AABRIA: It's my
01:10:17favorite thing to do.
MATT: In our hearts,
01:10:19we are like, "I love
you all so much."
01:10:21On the face:
01:10:22"Ugh, you ruined my stuff I
was trying to kill you with!
01:10:26"But I love you
01:10:26"and I'm so proud of you."
AABRIA: Yeah! (laughs)
01:10:28MATT: That's the whole secret.
AABRIA: "You did a good job
01:10:29"fighting it!
01:10:30"I mean, aw shucks.
Next time."
01:10:32SPENSER: (laughs)
MATT: Yeah, exactly.
01:10:33AABRIA: Getting to go--
MATT: That's the best part of it.
01:10:34AABRIA: You foiled my plan.
01:10:35You get to constantly be
the like, "You meddling kids!"
01:10:38It's the best!
01:10:40MATT: This is actually
a good question, too.
01:10:42Candela Obscura as a world
01:10:46draws a lot of
its inspiration
01:10:47from Victorian era,
spirituality and spiritualism,
01:10:52turn of the 20th century,
post-World War society.
01:10:57Taking all the facets
of this genre of horror
01:11:01into this new world
01:11:04for players that are wanting
to build their own mysteries,
01:11:07and their own creatures,
01:11:08and their own horror
in this space,
01:11:11what are your recommendations
for these players
01:11:14to pull from their
inspirations in history,
01:11:18but without bringing
in the colonial baggage
01:11:21or historical
problematic elements
01:11:23that come along
with our culture
01:11:24at those periods of time?
01:11:25SPENSER: Yeah.
AABRIA: (laughs)
01:11:27SPENSER: I think that was
one of the big reasons
01:11:28why we made Newfaire and
the Fairelands as they are,
01:11:32which is this is aesthetically
a turn of the century place,
01:11:37but we wanted it
to be a place
01:11:38that the problems lie in
other aspects of society.
01:11:42(laughs)
AABRIA: Yeah.
01:11:44SPENSER: We aren't
living in a world
01:11:45where somebody like Zehra
couldn't be a doctor.
01:11:48AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Right.
01:11:48SPENSER: Right?
Jean couldn't be a doctor.
01:11:52I think that we can do
our due diligence as GMs,
01:11:56as storytellers,
to go and do the research
01:12:00and to do our best
to put into practice
01:12:03and to do our best
to put into practice
01:12:07the kinds of things from that
world that we find interesting
01:12:08the kinds of things from that
world that we find interesting
01:12:12without bringing
with it the baggage
01:12:15of the terrible parts
of that society
01:12:18that we all are
highly aware of.
01:12:24The other bit that
I think is so important
01:12:27is that we're going
to get it wrong sometimes.
01:12:29MATT: Mm-hmm.
01:12:33SPENSER: There has to
be grace for failure,
01:12:35but there also has to be
space for learning, right?
01:12:38If we fail and we learn,
that's what's important.
01:12:40So in building the game,
that was a big factor.
01:12:45We had a lot of things that
we failed and learned from
01:12:47with cultural consultants
and sensitivity consultants
01:12:49and all these people that
came in and were like,
01:12:50"Hey, this thing, actually--"
01:12:52For example,
01:12:53something that was a blind
spot for me in particular,
01:12:56I didn't know that crystal
balls were an issue.
01:13:03So that's something that
I learned as we did it.
01:13:08You'll notice in Candela,
there are no crystal balls.
01:13:11AABRIA: Yeah.
SPENSER: That's just not
01:13:11in the artwork and stuff.
01:13:13MATT: Yeah.
01:13:14SPENSER: Now, if you
want to bring that
01:13:15into your own home game,
that's up to you
01:13:17to figure out how you
grapple with all of that.
01:13:20But yeah, I think just doing
your best to be able to go,
01:13:24everybody is welcome here.
01:13:25If there's anything
that pings on anybody,
01:13:27making sure you as a GM and
even as a player at the table
01:13:30have an open enough
conversation with the table
01:13:33that they can go, "Hey,
I'm uncomfortable with this,
01:13:35"can we change it?"
01:13:36MATT: I think it's also a
good thing to talk about, too.
01:13:39You are also welcome to
explore these themes
01:13:41if they're important to
you as a player at the table,
01:13:43and you are in a place where
you can or you have the--
01:13:48You are able to speak
on these things.
01:13:50AABRIA: Yeah.
MATT: Being like,
01:13:52you and the people at the
table want to discuss this
01:13:53and feel what's a safe space
for you to explore a story
01:13:56that can deal with
societal prejudice
01:13:58that could exist
in the Fairelands
01:13:59that's not prescriptive
in the book,
01:14:00but that's important to
you for you to explore
01:14:03in this world as part of
the story, you can do that.
01:14:06But it's also doing the
research, doing the care,
01:14:09and making sure that
everyone at the table
01:14:10is on the same page
and everyone's comfortable
01:14:12with exploring these
themes as well.
01:14:13AABRIA: 1,000%.
01:14:14I think it's so important
to note up top
01:14:17that a vibe is a shorthand,
01:14:20and shorthand is always
a launching off point.
01:14:22It is not the be-all end-all
the moment you start going:
01:14:25Gaslamp, Victorian, great.
01:14:28I'm going to map on everything
I know about a time period.
01:14:32You're unfortunately
porting in
01:14:36all the societal
stuff around it,
01:14:37that maybe doesn't ping
as inherently problematic
01:14:40but the moment
you start digging.
01:14:41So, take a vibe up
top as a beginning.
01:14:46Then I think there's
always value,
01:14:48especially if you're coming
into something with a group
01:14:50that you're like, we want to
be aware of what we're doing
01:14:53and build something that
is specifically for us.
01:14:55Spend a little extra time,
01:14:57the vibes that are put forth
in the book are immaculate.
01:15:02Do some world building
with your table.
01:15:04MATT: Mm-hmm.
AABRIA: Figure out
01:15:05what you guys want,
where you build,
01:15:07where you diverge, and
what you want to deal with.
01:15:10Having a gorgeously written
01:15:12and aesthetically
very pleasing
01:15:14rule book and core system
book is not an excuse
01:15:18to not do a little bit
of that legwork yourself,
01:15:20both because it helps
everyone be invested
01:15:23and understand the stakes
and world of the story,
01:15:26and also it helps
you build a world
01:15:27that has fidelity
to your table
01:15:29and your table's priorities.
01:15:30LIAM: Yeah, and the human beings
at your particular table
01:15:33are making that
framework together.
01:15:34AABRIA: Exactly.
MATT: Yes.
01:15:35LIAM: The book and the rule
system's not saying--
01:15:37We want your players
01:15:39to be able to tell
any kind of story
01:15:40they want in this world,
01:15:42and you don't want
to be like,
01:15:43"Well, it's 1910, so you don't
get to tell that story."
01:15:45AABRIA: Yep.
MATT: Yeah.
01:15:46Or, Candela, in the book,
it doesn't say
01:15:48we can talk about
generational trauma,
01:15:49you know, or classism, or
issues with authority,
01:15:52so we should avoid
those themes.
01:15:54No, if those excite
you as players
01:15:55and everyone at the table
wants to explore those,
01:15:57then please do so.
01:15:59You know, this is
just the setting
01:16:01in which we can
build that space
01:16:04without baking those
historical issues in.
01:16:07AABRIA: Yes.
MATT: Then if you feel
01:16:08you want to engage with
them as a player
01:16:10and process that as part
of the horror narrative
01:16:12because a lot of these things
in the world and in history
01:16:14are horrifying
in their own right,
01:16:16and can be explored at
a table where it feels safe
01:16:18and there's trust there.
01:16:19Please, by all means,
go for it.
01:16:21AABRIA: There simply
isn't a setting--
01:16:24No one can build
and present a setting
01:16:27that is clean
from any conflict
01:16:30or point of contention,
because that grit
01:16:33is the texture that a
story is driven off of.
01:16:36MATT: Yes.
AABRIA: So again,
01:16:38this isn't a bigger message
beyond talk to your group,
01:16:43build your world
with your group.
01:16:45Even if you have a book,
01:16:47build your world
with your group.
01:16:49You don't hand off
copies of Candela
01:16:51and go like, "I hope
everyone has studied."
01:16:53(laughter)
AABRIA: "You all have to
01:16:53"know exactly
where you're from
01:16:56"and what all the deal is,
01:16:57"and you have to know all
the NPCs in your location."
01:17:00That's not fun.
01:17:01But taking that as
a launching off point
01:17:03to build the world
you want to play in
01:17:04should always be a part
of the building the game.
01:17:07MATT: Yeah. I mean,
if there's ever something
01:17:08that you're not sure of,
01:17:09or you're like, "I wonder.
01:17:11"I don't see these
things anymore.
01:17:13"I'll look up and
see if there's
01:17:14"something wrong there."
AABRIA: Google it!
01:17:15MATT: Then Google it
and find out.
01:17:17AABRIA: (whispers) Google.
MATT: Or as you play your game,
01:17:19if a player comes up
to you and says,
01:17:20"Hey, just so you know,
01:17:22"that kind of makes me
a little uncomfortable
01:17:23"about this thing," or maybe
you didn't know this history.
01:17:25Be like, "Oh, okay.
01:17:27"Well, we're not going to
go back to that again,"
01:17:28you know?
AABRIA: Yeah.
01:17:29MATT: Pluck it out if it
makes the table uncomfortable.
01:17:31LIAM: Yeah.
MATT: You just evolve.
01:17:32Once again, you won't always
get everything perfect,
01:17:35and as long as there's grace
and the willingness to learn,
01:17:38then you continue on
and everyone's gravy.
01:17:40And by gravy, I mean
absolutely terrified
01:17:42and clinging for their life--
01:17:43AABRIA: Spooky gravy.
MATT: -- and probably being
01:17:44devoured and eaten
until nobody's left.
01:17:46So, yay.
AABRIA: Yay.
01:17:48MATT: I think that's a great
beat to finish up this topic.
01:17:51AABRIA: Yes.
01:17:52MATT: So thank you all
so much for joining us
01:17:54for the Candela Obscura
GM Roundtable.
01:17:57Thank you all so much
for being part of the series
01:18:00and being part
of this roundtable.
01:18:02Spenser Starke, Liam O'Brien,
Aabria Iyengar,
01:18:05you are the apple of my eye,
I love you all so much.
01:18:08Thank you for being here.
01:18:08AABRIA: Matthew Mercer.
SPENSER: (laughs)
01:18:10MATT: Oh, I'm here, too.
01:18:11(laughter)
01:18:14MATT: Mwah!
AABRIA: I love you!
01:18:15(laughter)
01:18:16MATT: Do not perceive me!
01:18:18I'm put here because
I have to be!
01:18:19(laughter)
01:18:21AABRIA: We don't let him
out the building.
01:18:22SPENSER: Yeah, he sleeps here.
MATT: I'm know, I live here.
01:18:24But no, if you haven't
checked that out yet,
01:18:26Candela Obscura's
Core Rulebook,
01:18:27along with the dice,
accessories, more,
01:18:30are all available at the
Critical Role online shops,
01:18:32the Darrington
Press Guild stores,
01:18:33and of course your other
friendly local game stores.
01:18:36You can learn more
about the game
01:18:37at darringtonpress.com/candela.
01:18:40So please, go forth,
01:18:42and we hope your games
bring you excellent
01:18:44and delightfully haunting
tales in the Fairelands.
01:18:47Thank you all so much.
Bye-bye!
01:18:49LIAM: Stop rolling sixes
in this building!
01:18:51SPENSER: Ah!
MATT: Oh god!
01:18:52ALL: (exclaiming)
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