00:04consent um cool so um I'm very glad that
00:08some of um a lot of the Learners that
00:10were serving here are software Engineers
00:12uh my prior job was to create the first
00:15machine learning engineering boot camp
00:17in springboard so a lot to say over
00:19there um and um more recently I was also
00:23a founding coach at Maven which is um a
00:27cohort based um course creator
00:30platform um um where I have served um
00:34different um courses for instance like
00:37AI generated creative CL uh class from
00:40uh media lab Community product class by
00:43Mar and Etc um so a lot of my previous
00:47experience are actually working with
00:49adults um however as some of as Michael
00:53and robberto probably know a lot of my
00:55passion goes back to Innovative
00:57education in K12 so my um I spent most
01:01of my time these days um with curus
01:03Cardinal as head of learning design to
01:06um work a lot with teachers and our
01:08teachers ESP special in this case are
01:10all college students so I'm working on
01:14uh my company uh cures Cals and where we
01:18provide a passion-based mentorship and
01:21workshops to middle schools and high
01:23schools all all facilitated by college
01:26students so the mentorship is steeped
01:29into every bit of our offering uh so far
01:32we have about 5,000 students and 200
01:35teachers on our platform we're also
01:37building a bigger Community to allow for
01:41you know big widen up the top of the
01:44funnel but also offer some more low
01:48engagement and happy to ask me about any
01:51experience before um I do want to hint
01:54that um actually prior to become a
01:57learning experience designer a lot of my
01:59experience come from becoming a design
02:01researcher um so a lot of my Approach uh
02:04is human Centric by Nature it's a lot
02:06about truly understand and our learner
02:09which the traditional ID or
02:12instructional designers might skip um
02:15and also ask me about China that's where
02:17I come from where I spend a lot of time
02:19understanding the market and we all know
02:21about the recent Crackdown um and it's
02:24definitely a place where there are a lot
02:26of movement um lot of um right now a lot
02:29of Chinese companies are going to India
02:31and like other Asian countries so we'll
02:34happen um very briefly so what is
02:38learning experience design it's actually
02:40a very new title and um under a lot of
02:44development for myself I feel the under
02:47layer of everything is leveraging
02:49learning principles from understanding
02:51how people memorize how people learn to
02:54how people interact socially and thus
02:57goes the social cultural Circle over
03:00here around how a learn how a learner
03:03process information themselves and
03:05collaborate others to learn um which has
03:08become you know has become it's a very
03:11important thing when it's an offline
03:12experience it's becoming more um
03:15important in the online um environment
03:18these days but more traditional part of
03:21learning experience design is
03:22pedagogical design um I've already heard
03:25a lot of people mentioning project-based
03:27case study Real World experience show
03:30learning so all of these are within the
03:32realm of pedagogy and with each approach
03:35we take there are a lot of details to
03:38discuss but um by the heart of it it's
03:41around how do you design the curriculum
03:43how do you design the interaction so the
03:45Learners can go from where they are now
03:48to where they want to get to and the
03:51last bit is um the techn technological
03:54aspect well it wasn't a thing when we
03:57mostly were designing for offline
03:58activities years years ago um the field
04:01of instructional design actually started
04:04in military where they um pushed bunch
04:07of psychometricians into the military
04:09say hey um well we need to train all
04:12these you know so military staff um how
04:15do we know that we're doing good job so
04:18um a lot of it actually come from you
04:20know a lot of worksheets back in the
04:22days and documenting progresses but
04:25right now as we know there just so many
04:27tools out there so the technological
04:29layer really gives a lot of depth into
04:31how we track progress how we you know uh
04:35demonstrate outcome and Etc but now as
04:38we know it's also steeping Into You Know
04:40The Learning Experience itself for
04:42instance how do we facilitate live live
04:47Etc um so you may wonder I didn't even
04:50kind of mention content curriculum in
04:53these kind of like three pillars or Alia
04:57who wrote this article recently um I
05:00think one thing I want to emphasiz is
05:02when we think about learning experience
05:05it's really not just a profession and
05:07especially all of you are education
05:09entrepreneur here it's really important
05:11to not just think about learning
05:13experience designer or designed as a
05:16role like one person will deal with it
05:18all No it should be designed into your
05:20strategy it should be designed into you
05:22know staff people to do specific
05:25different things and understanding can
05:27you incorporate you know p of learning
05:30experiences Into Your Role map and like
05:33success success criteria a huge part of
05:37it is because you know in the last
05:39decade more than a decade of online
05:41learning from moo we know we're like far
05:43graduated from the static oneway
05:46information transmission online learning
05:49experience um Learners are looking for
05:51more interactive personalized and
05:53Community Based or even connection based
05:57um approach to to learn and thus you
06:01know a lot of the if we really break
06:05down kind of like what is in learning
06:07experience design it's really not like a
06:09oneperson job so start from core
06:14um uh for instance um at Maven West the
06:19co-founder Maven often talk about the
06:20course mechanis mechanics canvas before
06:24you even start thinking about course how
06:27are you like how what are some levers
06:31that you can pull to you know decide on
06:34to design an experience to uh support
06:37your learners all of these 12 levers
06:39stand for you know like very strategic
06:42decision that you're going to make um do
06:45you want to make a three-week course or
06:47do you want to further develop into a
06:48six-month course um all of these
06:51components would kind of like determine
06:53the tone and like expected interactions
06:56for instance like how much the
06:58instructors is going to be involved is
07:01are we going to do so the first cohort
07:04what are we hoping to do in fifth cohort
07:06and Etc similarly uh at springboard
07:10although we don't use the course um
07:12mechanis canvas we didn't officially
07:14call it cohort based learning but you
07:17can arguably say bamps are cohort based
07:19and we've done it for so long um so as
07:22springboard for instance um although I'm
07:25a you know technically only like respon
07:28in a job TI I'm only responsible the
07:30content part of the uh course however um
07:34you know in the real job I actually need
07:36to work with my business team very
07:39closely on repositioning the course from
07:41a generic machine learning boot camp
07:43into a machine learning engineering boan
07:46and that requires a lot of like
07:47projection towards the market and like
07:49setting goals around our enrollments and
07:52setting metrics for our engagements and
07:54Etc so all of these examples are kind of
07:57just trying to say like when we think
08:00about learning experence design the
08:01first thing is like what goal do we have
08:04so um I would suggest if you have
08:07learning experience designer involve
08:09them in the process of Designing the
08:11strategies of different components that
08:13we just mentioned here and then the next
08:16three are kind of like in the warehouse
08:18of um you know learning experience
08:21designer that's also where I came from
08:23like curriculum design content and I
08:25actually specific mentioned content
08:27system design why I why do I mention
08:30that for instance like C's Cardinal u in
08:33the past year we have about 120 courses
08:36and uh when I come um and now I'm in the
08:39process of kind of like set up the
08:41update cycle and set up metric for uh
08:44material quality because we all of our
08:47mentors create their content and it's
08:50like a lot of work to actually like um
08:53you know set a bar and then need to
08:55design incentive system to make sure
08:59um well in a non-m Marketplace model for
09:02instance as springboard we have five
09:04Flagship courses across data to engineer
09:07and um uh in design then the question
09:12for us when we think about content
09:13system is when do we do a major
09:16curriculum update so the tools that we
09:18teach are not out of date is the hurti
09:21we did was six month but there were some
09:24Industries for instance cyber security
09:26when the certificates update the tools
09:29update you got to update so how do you
09:31embed the small update cycle and major
09:34update cycle and making sure that they
09:36have their goals and
09:38Etc live instruction and
09:40facilitation um yeah this is I a lot of
09:43people ask about this question it's
09:45getting really important uh as I
09:47mentioned um you know oneway information
09:50transmission no longer popular um there
09:52are so many more synchronized um
09:55interactions be it from the main
09:57classroom or so social events or you
10:00know quote unquote extra extracurricular
10:03events like this right so there are a
10:05lot of experiences on going to how do
10:08you facilitate how do you you know one
10:10have people to have meaningful walkways
10:12and two they feel part of a greater
10:15Community Etc and then brings the
10:17community engagement which I feel has
10:20been like somewhat more deciphered you
10:23know over the years but it's still kind
10:25of a black box there are some courses
10:29communities um and you know there are
10:32ways to do it include you know slack
10:34WhatsApp events um strengthening kind of
10:37facilitating like live interactions
10:40noticing Alberto sending you know re
10:43interacting with people and sore out
10:45questions out there and Etc small things
10:47like that or bigger pieces like setting
10:50up a student Club setting up a study
10:52group and Etc so I do feel like
10:55Community engagement is gaining a lot
10:57more attractions and you started to
10:59notice kind of roles like head of
11:02community and Etc but I do want to say
11:05like it's a contingent piece of learning
11:07experience design um there still kind of
11:09like need to be designed in a lot of
11:12places after that comes assessment
11:14assessment will be a much more
11:16traditional way of saying what I really
11:18see is outcome manifestation so for
11:21instance um as spring board we pursue
11:25learning outcome and career outcome and
11:27part of career outcome meaning like get
11:29them job um and I and I noticed a few um
11:33kind of transcend fellows are working on
11:35professional development realm as well
11:37so there are a lot of design going to
11:40like how do you you know basically
11:42design a portfolio that is convincing
11:44and have like included multiple pieces
11:47that allow your learners to show what
11:49they have learned right it's way past
11:52the time of just giving a certificate
11:54and like you don't need to deal with all
11:56the CR credentials Etc and more
11:59importantly is like are they learning it
12:01more and more like are they learning in
12:03public do we do they have a track of
12:05record of like you know working on
12:08Etc um and the last bit um I I actually
12:12should put like line between the last
12:14three and L and and the up because more
12:18and more especially when I'm looking at
12:21uh working a lot with Maven instructors
12:23because a lot of them are like one or
12:25two people trying to like you know pull
12:27out the whole courses it's really really
12:29difficult job because there are a lot of
12:31operational side of things so course
12:33operations can go from you know how do
12:36you disseminate your you know course
12:38materials to you know um someone will be
12:42drive your slides when you do live
12:43interactions and Etc to things like
12:47payment um and Etc so I know in this
12:51kind of whole operations real there are
12:53a lot of like tools out there but again
12:56human touch human touch is super
12:58important important I just want to note
13:00it's kind of of often like a hidden like
13:03a hidden thing for learning experience
13:06but often times it's kind of like the
13:09basic fundamental usability level of the
13:11experience that we actually need to
13:13design for but became a glitch in a lot
13:16of time to um and another thing is
13:20course performance monitoring um I do
13:23remember someone asked about Matrix so
13:25for instance um in springboard we have
13:29as I mentioned learning outcome and
13:31career outcome and within learning
13:33outcome we look at enrollment uh
13:36engagement satisfa completion sorry
13:38enrollment completion um engagement
13:42satisfaction and then referral so every
13:44one of that we have metrics to check
13:47with like inap popups qualitative things
13:50and more regular kind of like survey or
13:53uh interview on top um and I work with
13:57my researchers um to to do that in chis
14:00Caro we're smaller team we're much more
14:02Scrappy uh and we're also working with
14:04younger students on a more kind of like
14:07Competency Based like actual curriculum
14:10so we have much less like to be really
14:12honest much less like concrete metrics
14:14that we're tracking right now we are
14:17looking for engagement um you know based
14:19on the recorded videos to see um kind of
14:22like a speaker time um and as well as
14:26like how many people are turning on the
14:28camera and we look at learning outcomes
14:31on you know what kind of things that
14:33kids created Etc uh and then we also um
14:39look at I'm blanking out I'll return to
14:42this there's one more thing I wanted to
14:44share there um one last um I also put on
14:48the talent development so in my case I
14:50actually spend about half of my time
14:53working with teachers to you know
14:55prepare help them to prepare content
14:57help them to be ready to teach help them
15:00to be a better Mentor a lot of it goes
15:03from you know developing content to
15:05allow them to do so a lot of it's
15:07actually just a lot of talking to almost
15:10kind of like what I do to May
15:12instructors as a coach I do that to my
15:14own uh cures Cal teachers um and why do
15:17I put Talent Development here so
15:20similarly in a lot of cohort based soon
15:22you might notice that you know you need
15:24to scale Beyond yourself to have a staff
15:27of cod or you know more traditionally TA
15:31in a sense to help you um track students
15:36understanding to provide a lot more kind
15:38of like Community presence and Etc and
15:42that you need to think about you know
15:43what is role of Mentor in your co-
15:46offering what are some expectations from
15:48a Learners to engage with mentors I do
15:51no that some of you um I think
15:53mentorship is a CR critical component um
15:56as well I I think especially with an us
15:59uh and Venture um yeah that's a very
16:04rough like very high level rundown of
16:06like these are all things you need to
16:07think about and um now let's just like
16:10save more time to go into the specifics
16:12if ask me about practices I'm also here
16:15to learn from everyone so I may not know
16:18AI anwers um yeah so let's just get into
16:21the questions uh other than however you
16:26organize yeah no totally Lucy thank you
16:28so much we have like a lot of claps and
16:31then um so I think Michael actually has
16:35the first question in the chat um so if
16:38we can attend to that and then everyone
16:39else if you have any questions please
16:41put it in the chat and we can also call
16:45you so uh Michael's asking how do we
16:48staff for well execution of learning
16:50experience design seems everything
16:52across Department yeah that is why I
16:55mean it's like my spiky point of view it
16:57should be like drizzled down ing to like
16:59different people right you might you you
17:01will Pro for instance in a small team
17:03your social media person or your C your
17:06account success manager might know more
17:08about the people so like they might
17:09actually take up the community piece um
17:12so I think um it really depends on kind
17:16of the stage of the company I think the
17:19critical thing is to like think about
17:21what are the projects or things that
17:23need to be done and then like
17:25incorporate that in your you know
17:27strategic road map and find whoever can
17:30do it to kind of like do it just making
17:32sure you know these particular practices
17:34are done but then when you get more
17:37mature um I think it will be nice to
17:39have someone and it's going to be really
17:42hard for us to kind find like a unicorn
17:44learning experience designer who like
17:46done all of it um because largely
17:49because for instance if you want to find
17:51someone who are really good at content
17:52design they usually come from you know
17:55instructional design background which a
17:58lot of them you find are not so familiar
18:00with technology they're still in their
18:01it era or they're not very familiar with
18:06the more kind of like you know consumer
18:08Tech practices but then you might also
18:10have more like you might have people who
18:12come from more operations perspective
18:14they may not have as much like learning
18:17like depth in learning pedagogy and Etc
18:22like take it back so it's like think
18:25about you know what are the most
18:27important piece of learning experience
18:29design that you really need to roll out
18:32and then think about how you staff it um
18:35that's kind of the best I can say but
18:37I'm ex I'm happy to you know DM me later
18:39to think about you know more customized
18:42way how I can help you bring storm to
18:45staff yeah uh Lucy just to respond to
18:48that because that was just super helpful
18:49um just maybe transcend at work as just
18:53to ground what you shared and and what
18:56we're going through we have a head of
18:58learning learning and a community
18:59manager onon here and I think at because
19:03Community Connection and the experience
19:05was what we wanted to prioritize for but
19:07now as we grow and there might be two or
19:09three other programs we roll out uh
19:12Staffing for those other things that
19:14were maybe deprioritized before but now
19:16become more interesting when you're
19:18managing a a bigger Community with
19:20multiple programs yeah and then the
19:23question for for instance Maven right it
19:25has now three batches like there needs
19:27to be a person also thinking about how
19:29do I do a global Community rather than
19:32just cohart based community so it's like
19:34the thing with if you have a community
19:37person then they might have more
19:39strategic thinking of like just overall
19:41how Community around over time Etc if
19:43you don't have a community person focus
19:45on like like what you need to do you
19:47know next month right do those Community
19:51things I think that would be you know
19:53making sure it's there but then thly
19:55grow someone who can do it more
20:01perfect thank you um so we also have
20:03like questions from before while
20:05registering so I want to like honor like
20:07these individuals because they shoot the
20:10questions ahead of time um I think most
20:13of them are here so AR in them you have
20:15a question maybe you can ask um directly
20:18here so that we can all know the
20:19question and then Lucy have thought
20:21through about your question um so this
20:24nice sure I posted a question when
20:27registering you want me to ask
20:30that okay yes yeah I'll try I I'll try
20:33to remember the question but I think it
20:34was about uh uh study groups and peer
20:37learning circles if I'm not wrong um so
20:40I'll just give you some context here uh
20:42Lucy so we have the concept of study
20:45groups so during the live sessions we
20:48have people kind of engaging in a case
20:50method of learning uh in kind of smaller
20:53groups of five or six people uh what we
20:56have been kind of struggling with with
20:58is especially around um how to allocate
21:03people into the learning circles right
21:05because when they come in with different
21:07profiles uh and we we've tried out
21:10things like the Briggs Myers test
21:12results also whether that and we've been
21:14trying out different patterns here but
21:16would love to know if there are any kind
21:18of good practices to figure out the
21:20allocation logic into different study
21:22groups so that people jel together
21:24because we've seen different Dynamics
21:25across different study groups yeah yeah
21:28um absolutely I think like first
21:30question I might like put a ball in your
21:32court is like what are your goals so I I
21:35notice in your original framing of the
21:37question to drive peer-to-peer learning
21:40so I think it can be manifested as it's
21:43a open-ended study group and if you see
21:48students like ask a lot of questions to
21:50each other or they like like proactively
21:53bringing some materials that might be
21:55one of the goals right and then there's
21:57another kind of set set up is like you
21:59actually have a very structured guidance
22:01on what you need to do in these you know
22:04study sessions it's just like non
22:06facilitated or no instructor involvement
22:09um so in those kind of um you know
22:12scenario some of your kind of like
22:14success might look like they actually
22:16did what they you know what what you
22:18asked them to do so they actually have
22:20projects or some discussion notes that
22:22they can share back out um I'm just
22:25overall there are kind of two routes to
22:27do this like stud group I often like go
22:30back to you know most of us probably
22:32went to University and good professors
22:34did study group so like think back to
22:37those like more old format um and then
22:42specifically and then for this the
22:44scaffolding one I think some of the key
22:46practices will be like actually have
22:48like if you let them to you know
22:50actually make the prompt specific for
22:53instance if you ask them to brainstorm
22:54don't just write one question like at
22:57like par es in like like different dire
23:00suggestive different directions because
23:02you never know who are in the group they
23:03might just like go in silence or maybe
23:05one person did his own work and that's
23:07it so if you want the structure route
23:10make sure we have a lot of scaffolding
23:12like overc communicate everything when
23:14there's non like when there's no
23:16facilitation and making sure that you
23:19have a track like a place to like store
23:21their progress it can be as simple as
23:24like a Google doc if it's a consistent
23:25like five sessions of study group like
23:28put your study notes like a note capture
23:31to show your progress or you can go more
23:33creative on like you know use mirro like
23:36you literally designed the template one
23:37two three four five you know even it's
23:40BR like put a title there so every team
23:43you know when they graduate they have a
23:45miror board to present so that also one
23:48give some pleasure for people to like
23:50actually put something in to like just
23:53nice to have some delir B to show kind
23:57of the pro process um and then you asked
24:01about how to allocate people um I think
24:06one it kind of depends again going back
24:08to the two route right if it if you were
24:11hoping for a more open-ended kind of
24:14like self-organized group I think it's
24:17honestly like a higher goal to achieve
24:20and if you want to do that it's kind of
24:22in you kind of need to not only just
24:25look at like the background of the
24:26people you I need to kind of assess the
24:29activity level and engagement level um
24:32like something which means to embed
24:35someone is active like who can
24:37potentially grow into like the study
24:39group leader and embed that into each
24:42group um you can also design a mechanism
24:45of like they can rotate to lead the
24:47discussion and like someone will take up
24:50the role to come up the with come up
24:52with for uh come up with the questions
24:55and Etc um but the key is when there's
24:58no facilitator making sure there someone
25:01is a not making sure increase a
25:04probability that someone is this kind of
25:06like semif facilitator and you can gauge
25:09that by you know you might have pre-
25:11survey on you know how much time you're
25:13hoping to spend on this like someone who
25:15are really taking this opportunities to
25:18really learn there's always going to be
25:20you know this metaphor of front row
25:22student uh in your cohort and trying to
25:24like like kind of um separate them and
25:29um one last trick is when you come back
25:31to kind of the whole group um
25:34interaction whichever that is like
25:37making sure to highlight you know things
25:39that happen in the study group don't
25:41just let it go you know going back to
25:44you know very traditional classroom you
25:46give students assignment you're going to
25:47talk about it next day otherwise people
25:49don't do it um so I think these are kind
25:52of small tactics that you can leverage
25:54to make it slightly more um engaging
25:58got it thank you so much this is really
26:01helpful yeah thank you Lucy and then I
26:04have like one more question that is like
26:06specific and we can go to other
26:08questions um this question is from Greg
26:10actually um so how does kind of like The
26:13Learning Experience change when your
26:15audience is a lot younger um Lucy I know
26:18that you mentioned you work mostly with
26:19adults but curious if you have any
26:21insights on that yeah um well I think
26:24I've informally worked with um middle
26:28schoolers quite a lot teenagers um one
26:30of my Inspirations to stay in the
26:32education is actually this book called
26:34teenager Liberation handbook graph you
26:36should check it out it's really cool uh
26:39it's designed for kind of on like
26:41unschooling homeschooling communities
26:44written in 90s but they're just like a
26:46lot of story of the kids where you like
26:49you know when you really give The Paton
26:51to them like give them space they're
26:53going to make a crazy like active like
26:56crazy creative things and and that's
26:57like so still today like inspiration for
27:00me and also why I Cas return to k12 and
27:04like work on curis Cardinal um I just
27:07needed to express that um I am still
27:10learning honestly um Greg um and I think
27:14just based on what I'm looking from the
27:16store store Squad I I would love to
27:18learn from you because it sounds like on
27:20the curriculum level you are doing a lot
27:23of kind of like active things and you
27:25have a very strong statement of like no
27:27work sheets and like kind of throughout
27:29the Traditional School side of things at
27:31C's Cardinal like we're leveraging so
27:34hard on like you are learning with some
27:36Mentor that are cool like we're trying
27:39so hard to like relate to them in a way
27:42in a language that they know right for
27:45instance um you know like we tell so
27:48many stories of the mentors like of
27:51their cool experiences and then we get
27:53to Define what is cool like they've
27:54tried different things and then they've
27:56found what they like and Etc um the key
28:01like I think one thing I mean at least
28:02we're still trying out is like make it
28:06make it a off like make it not just an
28:08offering make it a community and space
28:11where they can hang out with you know
28:13peers that they like and if you have
28:16mentors that they like or people they
28:18and then a little bit higher it's like
28:19people they look up to I feel teenagers
28:23especially I think yours is like eight
28:24to 14 so even like younger than teens
28:28early teens it's really a time that they
28:32they're like their brain still working
28:33in a very connectionist kind of model
28:36it's really about who they are with less
28:39of like you know what thing they've
28:42created but of course like the thing
28:44that it created you know bring a sense
28:46of Pride so I just want if you think
28:49back to the three pillars I've just
28:50showed like I think for teenagers or
28:52younger Learners like social culture is
28:55like this big like trumping or other two
28:58pillar I mean you need to support but
29:00like really think about what kind of
29:02feelings this courses bring to them like
29:05are they hoping are they excited to like
29:07return to next course like what are they
29:09excited about so index so much on the
29:12emotional side of offering because
29:14that's kind of like the impression that
29:16they walk with um and then I think
29:19they're just like techical side of
29:21things like they literally have shorter
29:22attention span as you know like they
29:25might not sit still and especially if
29:27it's like like an online format of
29:29offering then how do you like adding you
29:32know stand up do like three jumping
29:34jacks kind of like small trick to let
29:37their energy out um or when you design
29:40your classroom you know um for instance
29:43out school they will say like for people
29:46who are um like 6 to 12 I think it they
29:50suggest it to be like nine people or
29:53less uh we roughly do five to 10
29:55students in our 14 to 18 year classroom
29:59I think it really depends you know the
30:01more interactive you might want it to be
30:03a smaller class in the way so like
30:05control your space control your
30:07classroom to you know fit whatever
30:10you're teaching might also be important
30:12um yeah and these like I think there's
30:16so much more uh to like talk about and
30:19learn in that in that sphere and I'm
30:21like learning myself as well thanks so
30:24much Lucy that was that was fabulous
30:28yeah and I'm going to be myang
30:30spokesperson um how do you ensure
30:32quality is maintained when of like the
30:35mentors and or teaching assistant when
30:37the community or the cohort
30:39grows yeah uh well I'm dealing with that
30:43challenge day day by day um number one
30:47admission um as much as you can afford
30:49kind of tighten the bar because the
30:52first kind of community that you like
30:54early stage community that you having um
30:57like the best way is to like get word by
30:59mouth like you know the coach and Coach
31:02friend to become coach and whoever they
31:05recommend always kind of index much more
31:08on you know the initial batch and then
31:10you probably have scaling needs like you
31:12literally just need more teachers like
31:15yesterday we got like three School
31:17partners and then they're like urgently
31:18needing like 10 more people and I just
31:21need to like go out and find people um
31:24but then you know right now at least I'm
31:26still holding the bar even it's like
31:29like urgent hires we can expedite your
31:31process you still go through the whole
31:32process um so like ensure quality in
31:35early stage is really important and
31:38number two um kind of incentive system
31:42um and this can be two ways like there
31:45are people who are you know wanting to
31:47be like mentors um not like really in
31:52the in it for the money they Le in it
31:54because they like the Learners or like
31:56they want to they feel like they can
31:57learn something through this engagement
32:00and Etc um so I think one thing is like
32:04you can like understand their
32:05motivations and show they can get that
32:08for instance uh in Maven from Maven 2 to
32:10Maven 3 coach they actually add
32:13specialization so founding coach we have
32:16like 12 people and it's like everyone
32:18does everything and you lead a pod and a
32:20lot of us complain like I'm a pedagogy
32:22specialist like I literally don't know
32:24how to deal with marketing stuff and I
32:26like it's not a reason why I'm here and
32:28you're putting labor on me that I can't
32:30really tangibly help my students so in
32:33Mayben 3 they actually change into four
32:36specialization pedagogy Community
32:38marketing um kind of like progress like
32:41overall um so that's a way to show like
32:45we respect your time respect your
32:46expertise this engagement can help you
32:49to become a better specialist right if
32:51it's something that we care um so that's
32:54like literally like reor like
32:56reorganized to show that we care about
32:59your growth as well and and then the
33:02other part of incentive system is just
33:04monetary or whatever mechanism you
33:07design right now we're trying kind of
33:10like um bonus program so for teachers
33:13who do and design great great content or
33:17who receive higher uh who receive High
33:20student ratings we give them bonus and
33:22it's like still kind of like a slightly
33:27to do that and then you kind of need to
33:29frame it very nicely because while you
33:31give bonus to these teachers you also
33:34need to recognize the you know hard work
33:37and the awesome job that other teachers
33:39did so it's not kind of like a too far
33:42bar like be fully transparent of your
33:44selection criteria for bonus and then
33:47like there might be like like five small
33:49things that you can do right so give
33:51them a letter that they can you know
33:53receive bonus next and then um I've also
33:56seen there are other communities kind of
33:59have a like a small like Iraqi you
34:02either add different tiers of Mentor or
34:06ta like it can be like a lead ta right
34:10they they might lead their own part and
34:11Etc I think out MBA they have done a lot
34:14of experiment as they like grew um so
34:17like you know and Coach you down you
34:21know a few years of job you graduate
34:23into a ha coach um and then you know it
34:26all flows from the team a lot um because
34:29they have so much institutional
34:30knowledge and they hire so many past
34:33graduates to become coach um and I think
34:36that's the same practice for a second
34:38brand as well um yeah but long in the
34:43long run if you want to ensure quality
34:45like have your own criteria have your
34:48own criteria and design incentive system
34:50around it will be really important it's
34:53not always about like the coach or like
34:56I don't know like like really great
34:57experts or something sometimes it's
35:00literally about you have staff of like
35:03really community-driven people so your
35:05criteria might be like how how well
35:08they've engaged the community and Etc
35:11you need to add incentives like they be
35:13more present in slack and Etc rather
35:15than like they are like I don't know the
35:18person who has more years of pedagogy
35:20training are necessarily more senior
35:22coach or something so you can design
35:24your incentive structure around you know
35:27what you want these people
35:30do thank you and I believe myang is
35:33trying to say Thank you so okay I'm the
35:35spoke person um and I think next I want
35:38to give like Anna some space to ask
35:40question because what cleido is doing I
35:43think very aligned to what you're doing
35:45Lucy um so Anna please ask
35:48away hi Lucy um yes I have two questions
35:52right now but I think one of them you
35:54kind of um sort of answer um with which
35:57is like what's the difference between
36:00like Middle School and High School
36:01versus others um and the other one I I
36:04do have is um I'm I'm kind of like um so
36:08so cido works on advis menhip um um kind
36:11of like products so that means
36:13short-term uh relationship building as
36:16opposed to long-term relationship
36:17building um but I am curious on how are
36:20you creating uh your long-term
36:22mentorship uh like are you just like
36:25giving them a short structure like of um
36:29and also I guess like who exactly are
36:31your mentors or is a fellow students or
36:33like more professionals um and how are
36:37you structuring them to to kind of like
36:39creating those sort of relationships are
36:41you creating any guide books are you
36:42creating any um you know like this time
36:46you have to meet in order to um produce
36:51relationship um and yeah in general yeah
36:55absolutely uh we have both both so I do
36:57have our Workshop offerings you know
37:00usually work through school Partners so
37:02we have like 10 sessions um during
37:05school year it's kind of over you know
37:0710 weeks during summer it's over two
37:09weeks so you know depends on which
37:11format it is um and then we have our
37:14oneon-one offerings one of them is
37:17Passion project like kid come with a
37:18rough ask and then we turn it into
37:20project after you know 10 weeks and it's
37:23usually one week a Cadence so you can
37:25also think it as like a 10 weak
37:27involvement and then even longer term we
37:29have like tutoring in a more traditional
37:32form and some kid like stay with the
37:35same teacher for a school year for
37:37semester and Etc just to give you kind
37:39of a diversity of like the length of um
37:42relationship that I'm working with here
37:45um I would say like sadly like there
37:48there are little opportunity to develop
37:50mentorship in like two week course or
37:53even 10 week course if you're dealing
37:55with like five to 10 kids small touch
37:58can be you know send up dates every week
38:01every class and like keep a log of like
38:04you know things that the kid did well um
38:07and it's really like depending on the
38:08teacher thems like already noticing
38:11Small Things um for teachers I work I
38:14work with teachers to do these things so
38:18sometimes I would sit in a class and
38:19just kind of point it out hey like
38:21notice this kid has changed this
38:23behavior these are the things you should
38:25look out for um so these are kind of
38:28like the best you can do in my view when
38:30it's like short-term engagement uh when
38:33it comes to kind of longer term uh
38:35engagement on 101 so 10 weeks or even
38:38longer yes I start them with kind of
38:41like a guidance we use cool sble just
38:44kind of like an interactive
38:47internal training tool excuse me to one
38:51talk about like what you can do upfront
38:54I call it like the fabulous first
38:56session right like first impression is
38:58so important I give actually a very
39:00detailed breakdown of like six 60 Minute
39:04how do you like get to know each other
39:06to you know roughly and then tie their
39:09in tie their interest to design of the
39:11project and then set goals and Etc so
39:14the first 60 Minute is actually almost
39:16like scripted for them to like set off
39:19to a good start um and then I provide
39:22tips for like you know in the progress
39:25checking side like making sure they're
39:27making progress on their project cuz
39:30it's not just like come talk you know
39:32every week it's like they're working
39:34along something so there are a lot of
39:36tricks on what kind of questions like
39:39what kind of progress tab um Google doc
39:42that you collaborate on Etc so we give
39:44them actual Tools in order to do that
39:47and then we also give them tips of like
39:49literally just how you relate to the kid
39:51as a human sometimes when we ask the kid
39:54like do you know how to do it they'll be
39:55like yeah I know how to do it and then
39:57they don't do it because they don't know
39:59then how to identify you know when kid
40:02tell you something like what they really
40:04mean and how to say it in a way that
40:06you're still like not making them
40:08embarrassed but knowing you know you
40:11were providing them help um and so to
40:15answer your question these are kind of
40:17the things or tools that I give to the
40:19teachers and then we I like meet them
40:22ongoing I don't proactively meet them um
40:25it's more like I think we all say it
40:27feels like you know imagine you're in
40:29the school just expect me or like my
40:32team like pop on the window and just
40:34check out what is happening like make it
40:36a casual less of evaluative thing so the
40:39mentors actually reach out to me when it
40:42run into challenges and like the types
40:45of challenges so far I've run into are
40:48one um kind of like kids not making
40:51progress uh kids feeling lost or um I
40:55should stop calling them kids Young
40:57Learners Young Learners uh are um you
41:00know and some of the things are
41:01mentioned are kind of beyond their realm
41:04for instance you know when you actually
41:06start to develop very authentic close
41:08relationship they started talking about
41:10their own relationships and that's not
41:12you know that's a best of a kind of of a
41:15mentorship that you feel comfortable
41:17enough talk about relationship and
41:18family stuff with your tutor but it's
41:20also not within the realm and this is
41:22where you know we might need to provide
41:24a little bit more support and like that
41:26expectations and manage that and Etc um
41:30yeah so I feel like it's it was a little
41:33bit rumbly but one yes you start off
41:36with like instructions and first session
41:39is so important that it was scripted and
41:41then you set up kind of an ongoing you
41:44know open space for support um and here
41:47and there um I would do like skill
41:49workshops of like how to listen to kids
41:51so they talk to you kind of thing um
41:54that's what I'm trying right now
41:59that's super fascinating uh I think the
42:01workshop how to how to listen to kids I
42:03feel like um it's it's possibly like
42:05valuable to everyone not
42:08just yeah yeah yeah I can recommend a
42:17okay oh we're both living
42:22are okay Lucy I I might hit you up oh um
42:28payy I love this um and now that we have
42:31like extra time Alberto I'll give you
42:33your space to ask your
42:35question yeah thanks luy this is super
42:38super cool um taking notes here and um
42:41yeah I think um one question that I was
42:43curious about um is I think you
42:46mentioned that that change from very
42:49specific learning outcomes that need to
42:51be assessed uh whether they're
42:52standardized outcomes or um I guess
42:56from we're going from that to a world
42:59where it's a little bit more about like
43:00kind of trusting the learner that
43:02they've learned something and asking
43:03them directly and I'm wondering if you
43:06have any best practices or any good
43:08examples of organizations that do this
43:10well um I sometimes struggle to think
43:13about good questions to ask Learners to
43:17measure kind of uh what should I ask
43:20somebody that is going to give
43:22themselves uh an assessment because
43:25there's a lot of stuff that you might
43:26not know right but like anyways that's
43:30I'm I'm kind of making it messier than
43:32it should be but that's the question
43:34yeah I mean um in learning science we
43:36say formative assessment instead of
43:39summative assessment summative is like
43:41you give them them sort of a test or
43:43like or you can frame it as questions
43:45and then if they don't get certain
43:47answer right you like you know they
43:49didn't learn well right I um I mean I'm
43:53very constructivist I'm very for form
43:56ative assessment meaning like you kind
43:58of it's more like learning progress
43:59check as you mentioned right like what
44:02have you learned like what any specific
44:05thing that left a very important
44:06impression on you um Etc but I also feel
44:11it really depends on how like outcome
44:14driven the course offering is for
44:16instance when I was at a boot camp this
44:18doesn't work like they need to finish
44:21their project and they need to do like
44:23really good projects so they can be
44:25hired so I have to do a lot of a
44:27summative assessment on like literally
44:29learning checks on Concepts on like do
44:32they know this design very tricky you
44:34know quiz questions to making sure not
44:37like asking them like do you know do you
44:39know this they don't know if like what
44:41they don't know like you need to design
44:43tricky quiz questions to make sure
44:45they've got it and then you need to rely
44:47on subject matter expert to do that and
44:50I just kind of want to be like put a
44:51flag of like summative assessments are
44:53important in many case scenarios but
44:56then going back to the more formative
44:59side of things um I think there are like
45:02maybe two categories of things you can
45:05do one is literally as I said like what
45:07have you learned like what is one
45:09takeaway you have today and do it at the
45:11end of like live live session right it's
45:14kind of just like a qu like let's wrap
45:16up the container and everyone you know
45:18wrap it fire share about what you have
45:21learned or do it in slack so we have a
45:23track a record of like you know inter
45:25ctions of today um and that it's not to
45:30kind of actually test them it's more
45:32like they have an active reflection and
45:35you can like add these kind of proactive
45:37reflection moments and you and um you
45:40ask like what kind what specific
45:41questions you can ask one is like you
45:44know what is one takeaway that's like
45:46literally like the Panacea question that
45:49you can ask like tell me one thing or
45:51like if you have to explain to your
45:53teammates one thing you learn from
45:55transcend talk like what is one thing
45:57that you walk away it's very quick
45:59everyone can share you can do async or
46:02sync um and then you know in a more
46:07scenario um if there's like you know
46:10week by week I don't know in your you
46:12know F five week Fellowship like every
46:16week you can do kind of like async round
46:18Table Right you Pros a very specific
46:20question like what are the best like
46:22marketing tricks you've seen so far and
46:25then do a like slack engagement so like
46:28do it more topic based so everyone can
46:30contribute um that's another way rather
46:33than ask you do you know but like put
46:35the question out there and like invite
46:38conversation in for these more
46:39open-ended things and then the other
46:42category that I'm thinking about it's
46:44literally like you can just you you
46:46cannot ask the learner if they know
46:48something they will just tell you they
46:50know uh and you need to kind of design
46:53projects um or kind of other more
46:56deliverables that it actually you know
46:58can even make a Twitter post there's
47:01this course called ship 30430 some of
47:03you might know it's a writing course um
47:05it's like one of the best accountability
47:08course I've ever seen I'm learning so
47:10many of their Community tricks right now
47:12um I'm not shipping as much uh anyway um
47:17yeah so like the thing like literally
47:19design you know outcome Del liberal push
47:22people to learn in public and you can
47:24like the outcome can be bigger small but
47:27the thing is like make a thing so they
47:29need to do it and demonstrate their
47:31learning instead of asking if they have
47:37yeah penny is in the course too I assume
47:40thanks thanks Li this is super
47:43cical yeah Agreed 100% um and yeah I
47:47think we are at time so thank you so
47:49much Lucy again for being here um we
47:52learned a lot and also everyone else for
47:54being here um super cool again so yeah I
47:58think this is like the end of our time
48:00together and I also post um oh sorry go
48:05ahead no I was going to say that I'm
48:07going to share your Twitter your email
48:09to like our selective so people can find
48:12you yeah U thank you for asking all
48:14those questions um always great to meet
48:17people who work in education um yeah
48:20awesome thank you lizie before you leave
48:23we have a kind of closing ritual that
48:26uh to invite you too so uh we try to go
48:29off mute when we can and uh put our
48:32hands in the middle and then I'm going
48:33to count down to three and then we're
48:35GNA put our hands up and say go team so
48:37uh please join us if you can so I'll
48:40count down to three and then we'll say
48:41go team so all right team three two one
48:46go team go team thanks
48:50everyone thank you rest of your week
48:53thank you guys bye bye bye right
