00:15welcome love hello good
00:18evening um good afternoon yes um a good
00:22evening Annie good morning Stephanie hi
00:36more people trickle in
00:49hello oh thank you hry I was
01:08oh cool thank you everyone I think more
01:12people will come um as we open it but we
01:14can go ahead and start our session
01:18today thank you all for coming for the
01:21EXP ontable we have Doug here but before
01:24we go into him I thought it would be
01:26nice if we can all introduce ourself
01:28really quickly um our name where we are
01:31joining from and then like one sentence
01:34about what you're doing your company and
01:37you can also put the link in the chat um
01:41yeah thank you also an for the contacts
01:43so I can start and then I'll just poporn
01:46it around angun here Community architect
01:48at transcend I'm joining from Cambridge
01:51um and I'm passing it to
01:54Annie hi Annie from recast success and
01:57I'm joining from Sonora California near
02:00and I will give it to
02:04Stephanie thanks Annie hi everyone uh
02:07I'm Stephanie I'm the co-founder at
02:10to.co um we're developing a SAS for uh
02:13providers of kids activities to help
02:15them manage and grow their business and
02:17I'm joining from Barcelona and I'll pass
02:21vladislav hi everyone vladislav here
02:23founder of LeRon a young planning
02:25experience platform I'm the resident of
02:27prag in the chch Republic and I am
02:32ainash hello guys I am ainash uh I am a
02:36co-founder of Tomo Club where we make
02:38educational games for kids and uh I am
02:42right now in India but the company that
02:43I'm made up is based out of
02:46us and I should pass on to
02:50Jake thanks aan and good morning
02:53everyone or good afternoon wherever you
02:54are in the world uh greetings from Medan
02:56Colombia um great to be on my second um
03:00cool with you all so yeah happy to be
03:01back again um I work as part of the co-
03:03school team and our commercial team so
03:05looking forward to learning from Doug
03:07about different ideas for growth um and
03:09I'll Chuck the ball to
03:14Matthew everyone uh Matt calling in from
03:17Toronto and uh I'm with Benji we've uh
03:20built tools to help uh Educators who
03:23host live uh virtual events uh makes we
03:26make it much easier to to create a more
03:29social and class environment in that uh
03:32situation and uh I will pass it off to
03:39Ed thanks Matt uh yeah I'm also uh from
03:43Co School based in bogatar Columbia and
03:46also on the commercial team with Jake uh
03:49and yeah looking forward to to today's
03:51session uh I will pass it over to
04:00hey everyone how you doing I'm just
04:02finished my workout so I'm sorry I'm not
04:04putting my camera I'm here with the the
04:08whole co- school team looking forward to
04:10learn from Doug of course so nice to
04:12meet you and I pass it to
04:15Henry hi everyone also from the co-
04:17school team I hope you don't mind the
04:19massive kind of co- School Gang that's
04:21here um but you know we've uh we we've
04:24got a lot out of these spaces so I think
04:26it's nice to have a few of us um on the
04:28call um and yeah I'm calling him from
04:31botar Colombia um and I has everyone
04:35gone right yeah yeah um yeah we I'm
04:39keeping Doug at the end um and there's
04:42like SEMA here but um yeah thank you
04:45everyone for the intros and I just
04:47wanted to like a little bit of intro of
04:49Doug Doug is the founder and also CEO at
04:52inter interplay learning a your company
04:55focusing on B2B training and when I
04:58learned about interplay I think it was
05:00like super cool that um the market that
05:02dark is serving and then how much the VR
05:05can be skillable and also effective for
05:07that industry and dark you can feel all
05:10the gaps that I have here um so hi Sima
05:14um so I think I'll just like pass it to
05:16duck if you can tell the story of
05:17interplay learning your founding story
05:20and also like more on how to deal with
05:23the B2B that's what we all are here for
05:27um so yeah Doug pass it on to you okay
05:30good thanks SEMA you want to introduce
05:33quickly sure I'm sorry I'm late um I'm
05:37SEMA I'm based in Dallas um I'm a
05:39founder of the literacy Architects and
05:41we run cohort-based courses for K
05:44through 12 teachers on how to teach uh
05:47literacy how to teach reading and
05:49writing to their students got it okay
05:52all right good well um yeah I don't have
05:55a anything properly prepared I thought I
05:58would just give you the origin Story how
06:00this all started and and we'll sort of
06:02take it from there and see where it goes
06:04and um so uh we're SAS based company
06:08selling training into the the Hands-On
06:10workers of the world the electrical
06:12mechanical industrial workers um and we
06:16started there's we have sort of two star
06:18points if you ask the marketing team we
06:20started in 2016 um because that's when
06:24things really took off when when we
06:25really raised outside Capital but the
06:27fact of the matter is you really start
06:29at the end of 2010 and we were a little
06:32bit of more of a professional services
06:34company and so where it came from is I
06:36was with another company where we were
06:38building or we were delivering training
06:41in in in sustainability and sort of
06:43green energy Etc this Niche trade called
06:46Energy Auditors who keep our houses
06:48tight to make sure they're they're
06:50efficient and it became obvious in this
06:52training course we were running that we
06:54didn't have enough time or the unit
06:57economics did did not support us to do a
06:59lot of Hands-On in the field training
07:02the cost would be too exorbitant for
07:04that class so I looked around and we saw
07:07that the military medical and Aviation
07:10industries were using simulation to
07:13mimic in the field training right
07:14whether it's for soldiers or surgeons or
07:17pilots and we were surprised that nobody
07:19in the trades was using simulation for
07:23you know skill development and the T and
07:27it made some sense at the time why it
07:28wasn't happening the cost of development
07:30was crazy it's one thing to have the
07:32Department of Defense writing a check
07:34right for a a soldier training or a big
07:37Medtech company writing a big check for
07:39surgery Etc but who was going to write
07:41it for HVAC or Plumbing or electrical or
07:44facility maintenance and so it was tough
07:46to fund I think content development and
07:48it was tough to deliver because you know
07:512010 2011 that's really when we started
07:53to get the ubiquity of broadband and the
07:56computing power got big enough that we
07:58could all start handling on our laptops
08:00like 3D simulation so the timing I think
08:03was pretty good in terms of where the
08:04tech was at the time so we built this
08:06nice little company and bootstrapped it
08:09for six years um a little friends and
08:11family money to get going but I had done
08:15do in 1999 in San Francisco I know you
08:19guys are thinking holy he's old uh
08:21but I had been through it once before
08:23with a you know Venture backed and it
08:25wasn't a lovely experience so this time
08:28we just had a crappy board I'll tell you
08:30about that another time but this time I
08:32thought you know we're not doing that
08:33we're not taking Venture money this time
08:35we're going to you know just grind this
08:36thing out and build it slowly and we did
08:38we built a nice little company for six
08:40years um we partnered with a couple big
08:43Publishers um and they would sell our
08:46simulations into trade school so we had
08:49simulations that mimicked in the field
08:52training and it might be you know it
08:53started in energy auditing but then we
08:55went to HVAC it might be so it looks
08:57like you know you're you're fixing
08:59instead of killing a bad guy as I always
09:01say you're fixing a heat pump right it
09:03basically was the the guts of what we
09:05did in 2016 what happened was we what
09:08really woke us up was um you guys
09:11remember a company called
09:13linda.com so linda.com got purchased by
09:16LinkedIn became LinkedIn learning and
09:18when they did um their numbers became
09:22public that they had about 90 million in
09:25ARR and and what I thought were a bunch
09:28of crappy online videos so I I I we just
09:32didn't appreciate this online on demand
09:35catalog how powerful that was and how
09:38much learning was happening uh using
09:41that model and that really woke us up
09:44and and we looked around at the time and
09:46there was also other online on demand
09:48cataloges there's one called grovo
09:51there's ones you know now probably
09:53plural site and udemy and some of these
09:56other ones but they were all for I'll
09:59just lazily call it the white collar
10:00world right business skill programming
10:02skills and the like nobody had built an
10:05online on demand catalog for the
10:07Hands-On worker the electrical
10:09mechanical worker and we said well why
10:11you know why doesn't that exist and and
10:13the obvious answer of course was well
10:15could you really train an electrician
10:18online right I mean it's one thing to
10:19train a Java programmer but can you
10:21really train an electrician well that we
10:23had done six years of simulation builds
10:26right so we we were getting pretty good
10:28at at training on technical in the field
10:30skill sets and we said no we think you
10:33can do that and you can get pretty darn
10:35close to it and with the the ascent of
10:38VR really coming and we had some early
10:412016 um it gets closer and closer to
10:45really scalable Hands-On training so
10:47that was sort of one thing could we
10:49overcome that two was could you build
10:52content cost effectively our first
10:54simulation that we built in 2011 cost
10:57about 300 Grand in about 13 months that
11:01same simulation just give you some idea
11:03would we build that in about two and a
11:05half weeks now uh so it's a little
11:07different day a decade later but in 2016
11:09we said okay can we can we build an
11:11engine purpose-built for building this
11:14type of training and then three could
11:16you deliver this to the learner who's in
11:18all different places they're in trucks
11:20they're in distribution centers they're
11:22they're not sitting like we are in front
11:24of our computers 9 hours a day like the
11:26LinkedIn learning audience so so those
11:29were some of the challenges and I guess
11:31we had the the hubris at the time to say
11:33no I think we can overcome that I think
11:35there is a place in the market for the
11:37linda.com and the trades uh and we are
11:40in a position to do it so we went out
11:42and I guess my wounds had healed and I
11:44said all right let's go time to to bring
11:46in some new capital we went to some
11:48angels here in Austin Texas I'm in
11:50Austin Texas raised a million dollars we
11:52also had won a grant from the Department
11:54of energy and uh US Department of energy
11:56for solar training uh we set a million
11:59and a half in Revenue so all of a sudden
12:01we had you know real little uh a little
12:04bit of money to go build this engine and
12:06try to take a shot at building this
12:07catalog and um so that was 2016 end of
12:132017 um and we built the catalog took
12:15about a year and a half to really get
12:17the engine going and and start building
12:18some catalog and start selling it on a
12:20SAS basis and um now we currently sell
12:25this big catalog into you know Mom and
12:28Pops right Sally's Heating in air Bob's
12:31Plumbing big Distributors like Ferguson
12:34who's a big Plumbing distributor
12:35globally um big manufacturers like in
12:39HVAC carrier and Dyan and gree and
12:42pretty much can't name one that we don't
12:44do work for um facility maintenance
12:47companies big apartment you know if you
12:49all live in an apartment you probably
12:50have a maintenance staff on call and
12:53there's a good chance if they're in the
12:55US they're now using our our catalog as
12:58a training tool and so that's our
13:03um uh let's see what else can tell yeah
13:05so then started to move in 2018 and
13:07numbers started coming in and then we
13:08were able to do a series a and and then
13:11things started to really move and then
13:12Co hit and we got even F you know the
13:15curve even went steeper and really took
13:17off and then we did a series B with Al
13:19Ventures leading that last about 13
13:22months ago and now we're sitting on sort
13:24of the the the envil enviable position
13:28now of like it's all working so now we
13:30get a lot of choices when we took that
13:31first series a we didn't have a lot of
13:33choices uh now we do and so we're trying
13:36to figure out the timing of the series C
13:37and where we go we did just break out
13:40globally uh we're taking over a pretty
13:42massive trades training program in South
13:45Africa um and so that's that's been
13:48exciting we have a a staff down there
13:50now starting to put that
13:52together um yeah that's that's nine 10
13:56years of my life here I guess 11 years
13:58of my life in in six minutes um we're
14:01about 125 people we are distributed
14:05we've we've actually been remote from
14:06day one well before like Co we were
14:08remote when we started in 2010
14:112011 uh we do have a little sales and
14:14marketing office here in Austin uh it's
14:16kind of a foundational home base but but
14:19fundamentally we're we're distributed
14:21just across the United States a couple
14:22people in England um actually we got
14:25some yeah so that's mostly it uh yeah
14:29that's it okay there we
14:30go wow thank you dou that was like super
14:33cool and I think that was the part that
14:36I was very impressed that like you are
14:38you have identified the Gap in the
14:40market and then just like go for it even
14:42though there's like not a lot of players
14:45yet uh tapping into this Hands-On
14:47workers um I guess my question that is
14:52that there's obviously a gap in the
14:54market and yet nobody has um tapped into
14:57it at at the same time then it might as
15:00you said the the big question was that
15:02will the digital um simulation be
15:06applicable or like be accepted nicely by
15:09this population and then at the same
15:11time you have as you're selling it to
15:13B2B then you have to convince the right
15:16find the right person convince them that
15:18this is going to be great for them um so
15:22I'm curious how was the process of that
15:25um sales funnel um to this B2B how do
15:29you find the person to talk to and then
15:31what are the selling points especially
15:33that is when you tap into it it's going
15:36to be like a lifelong customer most of
15:38the time and then there's possibility to
15:39upsell but the initial convincing is the
15:42hardest part yeah so there's a couple
15:45things there one you know we'll talk
15:46about the digital funnel and how we
15:48acquire customers in a second uh maybe
15:50talk about big trends wise that sort of
15:53our world view on this um if you know
15:55and I don't know each one of your
15:57companies unfortunately um but given the
16:00title was this B2B I imagine most of you
16:02have some B2B aspect although I heard a
16:04couple folks selling into schools but um
16:08when it comes to the folks selling to to
16:10the into the workplace or into employers
16:13I'm a big believer that employers are
16:16going to become major major players in
16:19education and if you look at like you
16:21know we have obviously the great
16:22resignation and all of that happening
16:24and and Labor's gotten tight if you look
16:26historically what happens when labor
16:28gets really tight in fact if you look
16:3250s um when their labor was super tight
16:35obviously because World War II employers
16:38started offering healthc care here in
16:40America that was the first time and it
16:42went from 20 million people 20 million
16:44people getting uh healthc care through
16:46their employers to 140 million in a
16:48decade so they really stepped up and
16:50said gez we got to offer better services
16:53to our own employees and it's going to
16:55include Healthcare I think we're seeing
16:57that exact same thing thing with
16:59education you guys have probably heard
17:01of Guild Guild education because it's
17:03you know kind of a darling of edtech
17:04here in the US and it is selling
17:07education as a benefit right and it's
17:08selling it to all the major
17:10Enterprises um if you look at you know
17:13whether it's Amazon career choice which
17:15is their big training program for their
17:17employees and they have $1.3 million 1.3
17:20million employees you look at Walmart
17:22with their better Better Living you or
17:24better you University essentially um if
17:28you you look at the L&D reports in terms
17:31of you know the L &d Learning and
17:32Development people now have a seat at
17:34the sea level table because Workforce is
17:37so critical that they're sitting right
17:39next to the COO and CEO and making big
17:41decisions and getting budget Etc so I
17:44think you're going to see in a big big
17:46way this is not like a one-time thing
17:48where oh they we've had to start
17:50investing our employees no I think this
17:52is now become it's going to become uh
17:55critical to just running a company every
17:58company has to become a learning company
18:00not only because the Market's moving
18:01faster but also they really need to
18:03commit to the development of their
18:05employees they're just finding the the
18:07mobility between uh companies is so easy
18:10now with all the geographic balance down
18:13like you've got to compete for employees
18:15and one of the best ways you can do it
18:16particularly for this younger generation
18:19is in showing them commitment to their
18:21Career Development and skill development
18:23and so you're going to see both
18:25concurrent programs education as a
18:27benefit meaning like
18:29you know I might be a barista but I'm
18:30taking College through my employer right
18:34or I might be building skills to try to
18:36get into marketing for that you know
18:38that coffee company so it might be
18:41just uh training on job specific stuff
18:43that would lend itself to success in a
18:45company or might be even outskilling um
18:47stuff so if you're selling into into the
18:50workplace into companies you're going to
18:53find that there's a lot of reception
18:56right now they're they're really
18:57interested in that so that's the first
18:59thing I would say that has changed
19:01dramatically since we've been selling
19:02this right selling this in 2017 2018 is
19:05very different than today today you
19:08don't have to work really hard to find
19:10somebody who is thinking about how do I
19:13train um where we've had a lot of
19:16success is um the you can imagine the
19:19industries we sell into are not exactly
19:21Tech forward right these are folks that
19:24they're you know they were reluctant to
19:25move to iPads for you know just even
19:28basic scheduling Etc right these are
19:30Hands-On workers who are you know the
19:33bosses were Hands-On workers and their
19:35bosses were Hands-On workers and they
19:36didn't they're just not real techy and
19:39so they've been forced into that world a
19:41little bit in the last you know five six
19:43years with some of the more basic
19:45operations of the company but they
19:47certainly weren't willing to make the
19:48leap to to digital training given you
19:51know their history but that has changed
19:54and it got accelerated in large part
19:56because of the massive skills Gap
19:58and what we heard in our first probably
20:01four or five years of doing this again
20:03from 2012 to 2017 was just people
20:05complaining companies complaining about
20:07the skills Gap oh the kids these days
20:10they don't do this stuff they don't let
20:11you know bum they stopped complaining
20:14couple years ago and just said I just
20:15have to solve this for my company and so
20:18they're the ones Aon who's um who are
20:21online looking like I got to I got to
20:24build my own Workforce where can I find
20:26some online resources to help build my
20:28own Workforce because the trade schools
20:30aren't putting out enough product which
20:32is the students or um there's just not
20:35enough you know labor I've got to go
20:37find labor I got to find I got to find
20:39somebody with a good attitude that's
20:41hungry to work and I will train them and
20:43they've said I need better resources to
20:45train them so they found us so we for us
20:48the digital funnel it represents well in
20:50the last two years it's represented
20:52Almost 100% of our inbound I mean our
20:55our capabilities and and driving that
20:58driving um customer acquisition we lost
21:03Co vertical events were really good for
21:05us like when we go to an HVAC show and
21:07there's tons of HVAC contractors great
21:09it's nice to see that going again and
21:11and um so I think that'll pick up again
21:14for us but almost entirely it's been uh
21:17a digital content acquisition strategy
21:21as education companies one thing you
21:23guys might appreciate is you create a
21:24lot of content that content has value
21:27also on the marketing side side so if
21:29you're creating you know a great course
21:30on X Y and Z for whatever your product
21:33is if you can slice a piece of that and
21:35tease it out to the market have it
21:37keyword Etc so somebody in our case
21:40might say um how to how to fix a faulty
21:44you know contactor on a heat pump
21:46somebody might Google that because
21:48they're trying to fix one on their own
21:50or they're you know trying to figure out
21:51an accelerate way and they might say oh
21:53what's this learning simulation about a
21:55a faulty heat pump right and and that's
21:57how they're finding us so the nice part
22:00I mean if you guys were selling like you
22:02know Self Storage you don't have natural
22:04content you're not sitting there
22:06creating content if you're a self
22:07storage company you've got to create
22:09kind of content to try to get
22:11people like how to store your boxes the
22:13best way and you're creating that just
22:15for you know for customer acquisition in
22:18this case if you can repurpose some of
22:20what you do in your day-to-day work if
22:22it's also applicable on the the digital
22:24funnel side it can really accelerate dep
22:28of content in you know in that
22:30Marketplace that that they're out there
22:32whether it's SEO or whether it's paid
22:34ads it that's that's that's where we
22:40successful oh I love that uh thank you
22:43for giving the background more uh about
22:45like the industry and then where it's
22:47going um and everything that you
22:49mentioned they shared makes sense um to
22:52me um and I love the part that like
22:56education as a benefit is becoming like
22:58more and more common we do have a lot of
23:01um folks as well in transend network who
23:03are doing upscaling at work and then
23:05exactly tapping into the L&D budget um
23:09yeah and I think maybe in the relation
23:11for uh the Jil panel for the sales of to
23:17curious when how do you decide like when
23:19would be the time to build a sales Steam
23:22and what would be the most important
23:24part of it most of the time people are
23:25starting by fers selling it themselves
23:28and then there's always a question when
23:30do I need to um hire a sales team or a
23:33salesperson um so I'm curious uh when
23:36would be the time for you is there any
23:38any preparation in thinking about how
23:41can other people represent my vision and
23:43then my company and sell it to other
23:46institutions you know obviously it
23:48depends a little on the company but for
23:50us I'll tell you our story and you can
23:52you know you can read into it as you as
23:54you see fit so I was head of sales right
23:58as CEO as you guys know you are all
24:00probably head of sales if you're CEO
24:02when you start and um and then when we
24:05started when the product got close
24:07enough and you're certainly please don't
24:09wait for the product to be completely
24:11perfect because you'll never get there
24:13so you know one go to market probably
24:15sooner than you think right isn't there
24:17the famous read uh Hoffman quote right
24:20you're way too long you're not a little
24:22embarrassed when you put out your
24:23software youve waited too long um so you
24:26know one you know get out there because
24:28it just allows customer conversation or
24:30Prospect conversation that'll help you
24:32find to what you're offering even when
24:33you're trying to sell what's on the
24:35truck right you know you're going to do
24:37plenty of work on this stuff on the
24:38truck but you still want to sell some
24:40stuff off the truck and so for us I
24:43built a little I hired a couple
24:45inexpensive salese to really get us
24:47going and um we did okay because the
24:50product you know there was some product
24:51Market fit and there was some pull by
24:53the market and we did okay we didn't do
24:55great but we did fine and but but it was
24:58a battle and then I hired a VP of sales
25:01November 11th 2019 I know that I will
25:04know that day forever because it changed
25:07the company dramatically if you can when
25:09you get to the point where you've had
25:11some modest success in the market and
25:13you truly believe you have something
25:14that will be scalable and repeatable
25:16right which is a whole conversation by
25:18itself and you'll know scalable and
25:20repeatable when you see it like I don't
25:22think I quite appreciated that until we
25:25tapped into it um and once we once we
25:30started to see a little of that then by
25:32getting a VPS sales and watching him
25:34build this sales organization was just
25:38it showed me first of all how terrible I
25:40was as head of sales like I mean if
25:43you're the CEO you're probably not a
25:45great head of sales just because it it
25:48takes a different mentality it's kind of
25:50like half Tony Robins half like General
25:53Patton half like you know used car
25:56salesperson like you have to have this
25:58like some like some Rush that you get
26:00every single day for showing up like a
26:02you know captain of a football team like
26:04let's go get the market like you got to
26:07have that energy and you got to build a
26:08team around you and and it's been
26:10incredible watching him build now the
26:12team's probably 25 or 30 people deep now
26:15and he's got a incredible program of uh
26:18of developing them and advancing them
26:20Etc from you know bdr and you know
26:23lowlevel direct to AE to Strat a all the
26:26way up so that that's one thing I'll say
26:29is that higher when you're ready to make
26:32it will probably be the most important
26:34higher especially if you're like a SAS
26:35company right uh maybe for a big
26:38Solutions company it's a little
26:39different but for a SAS company is
26:40trying to build something that's
26:41scalable and repeatable which is
26:43fundamentally what SAS companies require
26:46then that VP of sales is the the
26:48critical hire if you can find a guy or a
26:51woman who can just get out there and and
26:53show you how to has done that before has
26:55taken a company from half a million and
26:58says look I've taken this from half a
26:59million to 12 million AR or I've been
27:02you know taken one from 3 million to 30
27:04million like anybody really understands
27:07the mechanics of how to build that that
27:09will be probably the most important hire
27:11you're you're going to make if you know
27:13depending on your ambition of as a
27:17company thank you yeah um so um Henry I
27:22was like I was looking at the chat and
27:24then I see that you have question first
27:26um if you want to go off mute and then
27:29question sure I had two questions U just
27:32curious Doug about your experience um
27:35with the with the education sector
27:37selling um to schools school districts
27:39um and maybe kind of other other players
27:42in in any kind of wins challenges that
27:45you think are worth sharing and my other
27:47question is um just curious from your
27:49kind of vantage point if you're seeing
27:50anything happening in the world of of
27:52teacher training uh initial teacher
27:54training or or professional development
27:56for teachers with with VR and still
27:59seems like quite a new new space with
28:02opportunities yeah so I think when I
28:04answer the first one you'll see I'm
28:06probably not that equipped to answer the
28:07second yet but um so we we when we
28:10originally gotten this thing going we
28:12were bootstrapping we did find I think I
28:14mentioned a big publisher partner who
28:16really helped fund our company right
28:18customer funded essentially and they
28:20were selling into schools and this was a
28:22big Textbook Company that SS into career
28:24schools trade schools Community College
28:26Etc so we got to know the school Market
28:28a little there through them selling but
28:30we we were a step away from it from the
28:33exact sale cuz they were making the sale
28:35we were behind the scenes and I I didn't
28:37love what I and this is going to be
28:39discouraging because I know a couple of
28:40you sell into schools but I didn't love
28:42what I saw because of just like the
28:44challenges right the this the budget
28:46Cycles the layers whether it's
28:48department head and curriculum head or
28:50you know state requirements like all
28:53kinds of layers that really make it
28:56challenging to create something that's
28:57again scalable and repeatable and that
28:59has some real velocity especially out of
29:01the gate and so when we were doing that
29:04we actually then had an amicable divorce
29:07with that company they bought out our
29:08royalties and we agreed not to sell into
29:11learning we call it the learning market
29:12for three years so we didn't sell them
29:15to schools for three years and um and
29:18then we just turned it on about a year
29:20and a half ago two years ago and um
29:22we've now done very well in in it and we
29:25have a full team that just sells into it
29:27but I'll tell you I like it only as a
29:30side we have about 160 schools that use
29:32it now and these are postsecondary
29:34mostly but some are K12 with the 9
29:38primarily um I I I love it as a side
29:42business right like I love the fact that
29:45the employers are a lot more predictable
29:47and how they buy and their budget Cycles
29:48are quicker and predictable and they
29:50just make decisions faster and I love
29:53repurposing that content and imp
29:55packaging slightly differently for the
29:58uh the school Market but um recognizing
30:02that that will not travel at the same
30:05clip that the the workplace training
30:07will it's just a lot more like this
30:10because of some of the buying cycles and
30:12and some of the natural resistance so
30:14you know if your primary Market is the
30:17school Market you know recognize that
30:20you're it's going to be harder to show
30:24consistent performance on the sales
30:26front you're just going have like some
30:27big wins and then some you know some
30:30small stuff for a while and then big
30:32wins and and it's not as especially if
30:35you're SAS company sometimes looking at
30:37renewal and we use net dollar retention
30:39is also trickier they're like oh we love
30:41your product but we use this Grand
30:43funding last year to pay for it and we
30:45don't have that grand funding this year
30:48that type of thing happens a lot and
30:50we've actually we've been lucky our ndr
30:52there is about 112% into the learning
30:55market so we' we've hung in there but
30:57it's always taken a creative champion on
30:59their T side in in thosea cases Etc so
31:03I'm not trying to discourage you from
31:04selling into schools but I just you got
31:07to recognize what you're walking into
31:09that is not as you know if you really
31:12cared about just sales velocity out of
31:14the gate that's probably not where a
31:16place a market you should be starting
31:20with the second one about VR and teacher
31:23training we're not I mean all of the the
31:27instructors so the instructors in the
31:29learning market for our you know
31:31electrical and HVAC those are our two
31:33biggest in the learning Market the
31:34instructors are like so reluctant to get
31:37into VR because they're 60 years old 65
31:41they're kind of retirees right they
31:42they're probably practitioners for 30
31:44years their knees are gone so now
31:46they're teaching and and kind of
31:48returning to the industry like giving
31:50their return to the industry a little
31:51more than anything else so like they
31:53just don't have an appetite to learn new
31:55like a new technology that's and so they
31:58they were kind of reluctant adopters
32:00frankly they were more for us Inhibitors
32:03than promoters of our technology it
32:05really was the student saying hey you
32:07know instructor Bob we need to use this
32:10this stuff is amazing and and Bob
32:12finally said fine we'll get you seats
32:14like you guys figure it out type thing
32:17uh I'm I'm probably overstating it a
32:19little they they've come around a little
32:20bit but they've been a challenge for us
32:23so I I don't think you're going to find
32:25I mean at least in our Market we don't
32:27find that the teachers are early
32:28adopters of technology and again might
32:30be very different in in in K through 12
32:34like uh you know general education
32:40program thank you Doug um Matthew you
32:44have an interesting question um you can
32:47go ahead of me to ask your
32:49question uh yeah the question Doug was
32:52you know why go full stack like
32:54technology and content um but I think
32:57just kind of answered that um the the
32:59folks that would be creating the content
33:01probably wouldn't have the aptitude or
33:03the the sort of appetite to to do it um
33:06but I had another question which was um
33:10like how did you decide on the area
33:12you're going to focus on um so there's
33:16infinite s subjects you could cover how'
33:18you nail on that one um yeah I would say
33:23so a couple things one I would say like
33:25um when we got into it we we were more
33:29opportunistic than thoughtful and
33:31strategic right so when we got pulled
33:33into the partnership it's called sage
33:36learning that was the publisher when we
33:38started I told you the energy auditing
33:39story so that was our beach Head Market
33:41right we built our own content there and
33:43then when we started talking to the
33:44publisher they had a lot of pull for
33:46HVAC training and so that's got that
33:49sort of pulled us into there first it
33:51wasn't again a ton of analysis that told
33:53us however today we have a full growth
33:56team that looks is exactly that where do
33:59we go next why what's you know what area
34:01is the highest likelihood of winning in
34:03the shortest amount of time Etc and so
34:07we hired a couple former Bane employees
34:09which you guys are probably a few years
34:12away from this point in your um
34:15maturation but at the right time hiring
34:18somebody who does that market analysis
34:20and really has skills in it incredibly
34:23valuable if you have a product or
34:25service that can go in a lot of
34:27Direction you bring in somebody like
34:28that who really studies it can really
34:31size the market excuse me uh you know
34:35understands buying patterns just knows
34:37how to study it so now we make just
34:39really educated smart guesses on what
34:41what the best sequences for what Market
34:45why so and and more often than not
34:49frankly at this stage our my job is to
34:51say no because we just get oh we should
34:54be in Auto we should be in you know
34:56utility training we should be in Telco
34:58we should and I have to say no a lot and
35:00and we our plan is to be in all of them
35:03it's just a question of sequencing um
35:06and frankly what we find is it's the
35:08content's actually not the harder part
35:09for us building it because we have such
35:11a machine now on the content it's
35:12actually the go to market like you got
35:14to re-educate marketing people learn new
35:16value propositions new sales team all of
35:19that like how people buy there Telco
35:21buys very different than Building Trades
35:23buys very different than Auto and so
35:26it's really the to markets for us in
35:28that case um that that's more
35:29challenging moving laterally to
35:32domains if okay I got like a like point
35:36two uh to the question which is just
35:39like um like do you have any core
35:42metrics like a Northstar metric as far
35:44as like the success of one of these
35:47programs because for us a lot of times
35:50people are telling us oh we're trying to
35:51increase engagement but like what a
35:53fluffy word like how do you actually
35:55measure that what does that mean um um
35:57like outside of like completion rates
36:00like are there any hard metrics that
36:02you're you're tracking yeah so I'm going
36:05to answer this I'm going to come to the
36:06sort of the product and the learning
36:08outcomes in a minute but I actually want
36:10to start with something slightly
36:11differently so we use as a company I
36:13want to go to higher level we use okrs
36:15if you're familiar with okrs right
36:17objectives and key results
36:19and something that I've talked to edtech
36:22companies about before that's been a
36:23real problem or I've heard it to be a
36:26problem is when I explain what we're
36:28trying to do as a company um I often say
36:31you know our the financial metrics
36:34matter and our objective is to maximize
36:37Enterprise Value and that always sounds
36:40like the opposite of you know you're all
36:43good-hearted people thinking you're
36:44getting an edtech for a reason you
36:45probably want to help the world not so
36:47like you're not in fintech if we were in
36:48fintech we'd all just talk about dollar
36:51bills everywhere but you guys obviously
36:53have a little different drive right it's
36:54a little bit about social good if you're
36:57you're attracted to edtech and so
36:59sometimes there's a challenge in an
37:00edtech organization to feel like ah we
37:02have to be social good we can't be that
37:03focused on financial metrics and all you
37:05know this sort of sense and I say that's
37:07it's actually the opposite and with us
37:11okr is I mean the the Enterprise Value
37:14is our maximum uh you know sort of the
37:17top metric because excuse me uh because
37:22our goal is sort of global you know our
37:25Global ambition is to tr
37:27to Better Lives better careers for
37:29everyone across the globe in these and
37:31to do that we need to continue to raise
37:33capital and continue extend our reach in
37:35in our you know all the content areas
37:37and Tech stack and all that right and to
37:40do that we got to we're on this little
37:41merrygoround now raising Capital which
37:43is what I said I wouldn't do and said I
37:45never really admired those companies
37:47that did that but now I get it like if
37:49you really if you're ambition so far you
37:52got to recognize it takes a lot of
37:54capital to be this Global dominant
37:56player player and so if you're not sort
37:58of keeping that in mind the whole time
37:59you're making a mistake and so for us
38:01the okr is our what's our contracted ARR
38:05and what's our multiple that's how you
38:07come up with Enterprise Value as you as
38:09you all know so then we actually sub
38:11everything off of that we lad everything
38:12off there all right what goes into the
38:15the the bookings and the AR number we
38:17talk about sales marketing what goes
38:18into the multiple it's like how big is
38:20the addressable Market can you show you
38:22explain do you have a defensible uh you
38:24know technology do you have internal
38:26culture that's healthy to allow this
38:28kind of growth you know Etc you think
38:30about that and that's how we drive those
38:31are our metrics that drive the
38:32organization and it really is about um
38:36uh driving Enterprise Value because we
38:38we we know we have the product Market
38:39fit right not perfect but right and um
38:43it's just a question of how far can we
38:44go with this and and where do we go so
38:46that's the metric we use um uh to really
38:49drive the organization day-to- day now
38:52when it comes to inside the product um
38:54we we've been playing with different
38:56things so and we don't have
38:58like I wish I had sort of the golden
39:00ticket for you and say ah this is the
39:02number that matters and and we have owl
39:04Ventures as a as one of our investors
39:06who's obviously you know 100% dedicated
39:08to edtech so they've got a learning
39:10outcome specialist and so we meet with
39:13her sometimes and and it's softer than
39:15you'd like especially in workplace
39:17learning right you'd like this Pure
39:19Clean Roi and simple story and it it's
39:22just hard to measure particularly
39:24assessing skills is really challenging
39:26when we do Hands-On skills so it even in
39:28simulations we can measure but at the
39:30same time it's really challenging to
39:32connect all those dots to have a
39:34complete you know Co cogent story around
39:37exactly that so there has to be some
39:39acceptance of softness there I I think
39:42the thing that we learned early and you
39:43guys have probably heard this simple
39:46surveys of are you more confident with
39:49this skill and are you more competent
39:52with this skill whatever you learned
39:53right and if the the surveys are the
39:55Learners are saying saying yes and yes
39:57and you know 85% they're saying yes I'm
39:59more confident and yes I'm more
40:00confident like that's almost better to
40:03me especially to to say to their boss
40:06look at the numbers the numbers say 85%
40:09of these people are saying they're more
40:10confident more confident like how you're
40:12not going to buy this again for the next
40:14group like of course you are and so it's
40:16not even about oh look how many hours
40:18especially if you're selling the
40:19workplace if you start bragging about
40:21the number of hours of training like
40:22you're going to get kicked to the curb
40:24they want those people working uh you
40:26know and and they want learning to be
40:28super efficient and so like we try not
40:31to get too hung up on that stuff I I
40:33mean I think there's still opportunity
40:34to get better at that and more precise
40:36because I think it helps our product but
40:38we're we're younger there our VP product
40:40just started she started last she's less
40:43than a year about a year and so we're
40:45just tightening up a lot of that like um
40:47but but I hope that helps a little bit
40:49that's great yeah thanks so much
40:50appreciate it yeah great questions thank
40:53you Matt um and floody love has a
40:56question around distribution um so FIS
41:00please thanks I'm super curious on
41:03whether you collaborate with L
41:04experience platforms as sort of a
41:07mediator for the delivery or for
41:08distribution or whether you distribute
41:11and and deliver straight to the B2B yeah
41:15so we yeah we have I think I like you're
41:17asking about lxs or lmss right um so we
41:21have our own um but we have to be able
41:25to connect to every everybody's right
41:27you can't go into an Enterprise that
41:29just spent 1.6 million on workday
41:32learning or workday learn or Blackboard
41:35or whatever it is and tell them no no no
41:37you have to use rlms like you just
41:40you'll get kicked to the curb there and
41:41so you have to in our mind if you're a
41:44Content company which fundamentally we
41:46are uh that's really where our value is
41:48today certainly we have some really
41:50interesting Tech to allow us to be that
41:52content company but fundamentally like
41:55it's the content that matters for us
41:57today that content has to be able to
41:59live on other lmss and so yes we have to
42:02you we battle just you know if you're
42:04not in this space or you're not close to
42:06this yet like battling with LTI and
42:08scorm and saml and all like the you know
42:12the apis and the protocols and it's not
42:15fun it's probably the least fun part of
42:17our business and probably the most
42:19inconsistent technically because LMS is
42:22I don't know there's 462 of them or
42:25something that are you know that are
42:27listed so you know trying to be experts
42:29on all of them is really challenging and
42:31you know we've tried to simplify apis
42:33and we've just we've we've we've just
42:36struggled through it and we but we
42:38haven't given it up if you look at
42:40companies like uh plural site they said
42:43no right they said nope for us to do all
42:46these smarts and measure Etc you just
42:48have to be on our platform and I don't
42:51think we had the uh you know courage to
42:55do that frankly into our markets I I
42:57think we just said no we're we're just
42:58going to have to play with theirs and
43:00maybe at some point we have enough heft
43:03uh to do that but right now we've we've
43:05had to learn you know we have full-time
43:08implementation team and U full-time
43:11customer support that just focuses on
43:13scorm issues we have fulltime I mean it
43:15is a necessary evil when you're talking
43:18about delivering content around the
43:22globe so that would be even self self I
43:26would call it very interesting for me to
43:28maybe get in touch in person and discuss
43:30whether there could be some some sort of
43:32integration or collaboration between
43:34your and our platform yeah I'm sure I
43:37can say confidently I don't know what
43:39your platform looks like but I'm sure we
43:42can connect to it because we've
43:44connected to them all and uh there's
43:46never been a time where it just wouldn't
43:48work okay I I'll get in touch with you
43:52okay well um um a you have a de my
43:56question yes uh it's a little different
43:59on not direct lines but let's say if you
44:02are offered a B2B partnership with a
44:04company uh who is has the same target
44:06audience like yours but with a different
44:09offering and they want to bundle it up
44:11to to the same common person in that
44:15case you often become a content provider
44:17or you not not the customer is not yours
44:20in that case yeah right so how do you
44:22make that situation like a win-win
44:24purple like if you have any experience
44:25in that the we do yeah we certainly do
44:28um I I think those are great
44:30opportunities to start because you're
44:32lean they have a Salesforce they've
44:34already already you know won over our
44:36customer Bas likely by the way if it's
44:38another startup it's also trying to
44:41don't waste your time because you're
44:42what you're trying to buy into is is
44:44into their distribution capabilities and
44:47their knowledge of the customer and how
44:48the customer buys Etc great way to start
44:52um crappy way to build a business
44:56uh in my view like I I think it's we
44:59still have some Legacy deals that like
45:00we're trying to undo now cuz we don't
45:02need them anymore right and they're
45:04they're crappy at selling our stuff
45:05there's always complications it's hard
45:07to know with renewal because there's
45:09this layer like you talked about layer
45:11between you and the customer you don't
45:12get to know your customer as well as you
45:14like so to me it's a it's a tool you use
45:18early in your um maturation to get into
45:22more places and get more usage and uh
45:25all those things and when you're lean on
45:27the sales side but you know make put
45:29time time limits on those deals make
45:31them a year or two and and make it very
45:34clear you may not renew well you don't
45:36say that in the early you're you're part
45:38the world out of the gate but yeah
45:40you're yeah I mean plan and your head
45:42that you probably have to pull that away
45:43I I'm a bit you know I think of that as
45:46Channel Partnerships in most parts I
45:48mean sometimes call slightly differently
45:50depend but like I think channels full
45:53fulfill demand don't create it
45:56and so if they have some demand they'll
45:59help you fulfill it right because they
46:01have they've created some you know some
46:03small demand but they don't create
46:05Demand on a big scale they really just
46:06help fulfill demand so yeah so that's
46:09how I think of those I I would I'd use
46:11them uh early on but then I'd be
46:15cautious about where you go in the long
46:16term again depends on your appetite if
46:19it's like a Side Market you don't care
46:20that much about okay maybe you can run
46:22and say good you guys sell it into this
46:24Market a we don't care about a we focus
46:26on BC and D um you know that that can be
46:29a tenable position but more often than
46:31not you'll be disappointed in a partner
46:33selling you know just whatever is in
46:36their book bag you're just one piece in
46:38their book bag that's a it's tough yeah
46:44you thank you um haven't encounter that
46:47but that's a great learning um Ru you
46:50have a question about
46:52GTM yes I do uh hi Doug um so just to
46:56give you a a perspective before I ask
46:58the question we are actually an emotion
47:00and engagement analytics platform we
47:02help Educators and businesses figure out
47:06whether Learners are engaged and how to
47:08improve learning outcomes so one of the
47:10key problems that we are facing is that
47:12our product is applicable across so many
47:15different use cases not just in remote
47:17learning but also in social commerce and
47:20OT so how did U you really zero in on
47:24the right vertical to kind of start off
47:26with what were the signals that you used
47:28to kind of sequence the
47:30verticals yeah well first of all you're
47:33you're starting with the right question
47:35which is where to start like you you're
47:37not going to do all of them like you
47:39know your job now is to choose the one
47:42that you know and focus every bit of
47:44energy into that one let's say it is you
47:47know online math like
47:50whatever F you've got to dig into that
47:53and figure out for us we do a lot of um
47:57uh analysis where it's like highest
47:59return lowest effort right like where's
48:01the highest return lowest effort and and
48:04try to you know obviously I don't know
48:06your market so you're going to have to
48:07dig in and do a lot of analysis like
48:09that do things like you know prior like
48:12prioritizing what matters the most in
48:14the value proposition that that really
48:16sells I mean you know people buy on
48:20emotion and justify with facts so
48:22where's the emotion the greatest like
48:25like where is it really tapping into
48:26something that you think you know will
48:28will have the greatest Market pull to
48:30start uh because as you get into other
48:34you know more adjacent markets you'll be
48:36able to show case studies and how it
48:37works you'll be able to tell more but
48:39you need to really tap into the emotion
48:40early because you're not going to have a
48:42lot of good facts and figures or
48:44customer stories or case studies Etc so
48:47you're going to have to really tap into
48:48the emotion so that's what I would be
48:50doing I'd be looking at that highest
48:52return lowest effort and where the
48:54emotions the greatest and and I would go
48:57Full Tilt at that market and and almost
48:59say no on all the edges and and if
49:02you're confident enough you can win
49:04there um so that's that's how I would
49:07think of it great great thank you so
49:13helpful thank you um D I think I what I
49:17have a question um now that you have
49:19been in the space for a while I'm
49:20curious if you can speak more on the
49:23technology itself VR what is what is new
49:26what is interesting with the space and
49:28then where do you see the space going
49:30yeah I gave a talk on this yesterday to
49:32HVAC instructors and it was a a complete
49:36failure um so maybe this will be a
49:38better audience for it but um you know
49:40they want to just how do I buy this
49:42product and how do I use it in m and I
49:44was trying to tell them about these big
49:46trends in VR um total disaster but um
49:50geez where to start so couple things one
49:52are if you're playing with VR I don't
49:55know who here is playing with VR my
49:56first thing would be like um make sure
50:00that when you're doesn't always app but
50:02for let me say it this way let me say it
50:08been fully dependent on the fact that we
50:10were not VR dependent if we are VR only
50:14we would be a dead company we were VR
50:17also if you want to try it in VR go for
50:19it but everything everything is point of
50:21view simulation on tablet and desktop
50:24through you know through your browser
50:27webgl you know through an iPad whatever
50:30nice if you have VR and you have a tech
50:32forward person great go for it and by
50:34the way it's also 10 times better in
50:36terms of the real experience but we're
50:38not going to force you into it the
50:39market was not ready and frankly is
50:41barely ready now and so if you're VR you
50:45know if you're VR driven and it's about
50:47visual content Etc I would really
50:49challenge you on is there a way you can
50:52deliver it uh through the browser or
50:53through through an app on a 2 2D device
50:56because that's where the market is today
50:58and if you tie yourself to the hardware
51:00you're it's going to be a disaster
51:02particularly we have meta who's you know
51:04people have different feelings of
51:06Facebook meta we have to be friends with
51:08them because they are actually they've
51:10been great to us but you know they we're
51:12dependent if they decide to go left like
51:14their headset's the best on the market
51:16by far they set the price point you know
51:18what they pursue matters Etc so but I
51:22don't have to like sweat that out
51:24because only six or 7% of our customers
51:27are even using VR with any kind of
51:29regular use and and most of them are
51:31just consuming on the devices they
51:33already have so that's the first place
51:34I'd start um you know that being said I
51:38you know I I do think we have begun to
51:41really come out of the trough of
51:42disillusionment with VR I really think
51:44like now the price Point's better I
51:46think it's no longer you know an orphan
51:49sale meaning the VR is now fitting into
51:51the compatibility of of work you know I
51:55there there's a there's a old marketing
51:57guy who you know says there's six six
52:00things you need for technology adoption
52:02one is ease of trial ease of use
52:07Advantage observed benefits Can You
52:09observe those benefits is it compatible
52:11with the way they're doing business or
52:13doing whatever they're today or not uh
52:15and is there any kind of external
52:17network effect right so it's those six
52:20things so as you look at the timing of
52:22your technology look at where you are
52:24with e a trial ease abuse and you know
52:27the four others and um in VR we're just
52:30starting to get to like I'd give it a B
52:32on that now it used to be a d and now
52:35it's a b it's not an a yet and so maybe
52:38even a B minus I mean you know meta
52:41still like jerking you around oh you
52:42need a Facebook account no you don't oh
52:44you need Oculus for business no you
52:46don't you got pico out there with a
52:48Chinese headsight oh this one's good but
52:50it's kind of clunky got HTC committed oh
52:53maybe not it's this you know they missed
52:55the mark of the last you know rev of
52:57their technology like it's still early
53:00days there a little bit and so I you
53:02know I love it for where we're going
53:04particularly given our application but
53:06I'm cautious on it in terms of make you
53:08know bet the farm on VR today if you
53:11need sales right if you need sales the
53:13next two or three years that's tougher
53:15if you had an investor group that says
53:16we don't care we care about 10 years out
53:18then I'd be all in VR I I'm certainly
53:21long VR just the timing and and the
53:24application you know the the deployment
53:26is still a little a little too much
53:31friction thank you for the inside um
53:34it's such a relief to know that we are
53:36going to that direction but also be
53:37cautious because the market is still
53:40like own bicep and people and then
53:42having both sides of the coin having the
53:44pr and also other things is the safer
53:46bet um thank you DC U maybe like the
53:49last question that I have here if anyone
53:51else don't have any question um I'm
53:53curious where do you see in the play
53:55learning U moving forward in the future
53:58when Co has accelerated the growth and
54:00then I think we will not go back to very
54:03non-techy way of doing things and then
54:06people are embracing uh but um it seems
54:08like to me you have a lot of insights on
54:10like how things are going um so I'm
54:12super curious to learn more about
54:13interplay learning and then your vision
54:16forward yeah I mean you know my uh
54:20everything for the last two and a half
54:21years has been up and to the right and
54:24so when everything things up and to the
54:26right it feels like this will go forever
54:28right like I'm sure every entrepreneur
54:30that sort of tapped into that and and
54:33look I mean look I you know the famous
54:35joke is we're an overnight success but
54:37you know it took 10 years and and which
54:40is true in our case right this thing is
54:42all working now but we pushed a stone up
54:44the hill for six seven eight years and
54:47um and now they we in this mode where
54:49everything is is moving the way we think
54:51it and the Market's moving the trends
54:52are moving the macro Trends are right
54:54the techn technolog is aligned we've
54:56made really you know mostly good
54:58decisions we have a really strong
54:59culture in the company uh we're just
55:01going to keep riding here this ourselves
55:04and we have plenty of app there's so
55:06much dry powder for Capital like in
55:09especially in big addressable markets
55:11and you know big macro Trends and
55:12Tailwinds for us so we can you know we
55:15can do a pretty large series C when
55:17we're ready and I suspect we'll do a
55:19large series D after that um we have
55:22plenty of suitors at this point um
55:25you know I think we're number one in our
55:27Market I think if anybody's read you
55:29know horror wit's book um hard things
55:32but hard things he says look if you're
55:33number one in your Market don't sell if
55:35you're number two or three you know
55:36maybe you consider it and so right now
55:38we're number one in our market and we're
55:40going to keep riding and I you know I
55:42think the the South Africa breakthrough
55:44was really interesting for us that
55:46really said this is a you know there's a
55:48global appetite for this and now we're
55:50starting to get some pull in India and
55:52in Mexico without any effort on our part
55:54really inbound and so you know we're
55:57going to continue to to expand one thing
55:59we may do is stay thin on the content
56:01right I talked about Telco and auto and
56:03all these other areas Building Trades
56:05turns out there's buildings everywhere
56:07and so like we may just stay thinner on
56:10you know and wider and not do Toco in
56:12the United States just stay you know
56:14working on Building Trades and try to do
56:16it globally so we have some decisions to
56:18make there um I think we take more money
56:21will be somewhat required to stand up
56:23new domain areas like have to do it
56:25concurrently frankly that's what you're
56:27kind of signing up for so um yeah we'll
56:30keep we'll keep going here we think
56:31there's a you know there is I mean
56:34LinkedIn learning has 17 million users I
56:37you know I can't see I can see why we
56:39might have 17 million one day so um yeah
56:42we're going to keep riding this
56:44hopefully we don't hopefully I don't
56:48up um yeah I I don't think you will so
56:51thank you so much dou for like this
56:53insightful one hour so many things to
56:56learn from like the industry trend from
56:58the learning itself and then like to FR
57:00to this very specific Market too um so
57:03thank you for your time um I think we're
57:05up to close here and we have like this
57:07small ritual FIS love and R and everyone
57:10else if you're here um and can open we
57:13have like this um ritual we bring our
57:15hands to the camera we go off mute and
57:18then in count three to one and then we
57:20all together say um go Team all right so
57:25I want to do it too yes yes yes exactly
57:28you are very invited so um I'm going to
57:31do music this three two one go team go
57:36team thank you guys thank you very much