Why "senior software engineer" isn't worth it... (as an ex-Google tech lead)

TechLead2020-10-15

software engineer#senior developer#computer science#senior software engineer#staff software engineer#facebook#google#fang#silicon valley

314K views|3 years ago

💫 Short Summary

Ex-Google and Facebook tech lead provides insights on becoming a senior software engineer, discussing the pros and cons of reaching higher levels in tech companies and suggesting that starting a side hustle for more money and prestige may be a rewarding alternative. In the video, "Why Climbing the Corporate Ladder is Overrated," the speaker, "The Tech Lead," discusses the challenges and diminishing returns of climbing the corporate ladder in tech companies. He highlights the difficulty of finding impactful projects at higher levels, increased levels of responsibility and conflicts, and the fact that many benefits can be obtained just by being within the company. The Tech Lead suggests that having a side hustle and using employment for basic needs and networking may be more valuable than pursuing the traditional career ladder.

✨ Highlights

📊 Transcript

✦

The path to becoming a senior software engineer at top tech companies like Google and Facebook is challenging and can take 10 to 15 years.

00:00

Many people want to become a senior software engineer but may feel under-leveled when they join a company.

It's a competitive field with a lot of pride and a desire for higher status.

Startups often inflate titles as a non-monetary reward.

There may be a point of diminishing returns in terms of effort versus rewards.

✦

Senior software engineers and staff software engineers have high levels of responsibility and are constantly expected to stay on top of everything.

02:21

Staff software engineers, at around level 6, have uncomfortable levels of expectations and are always in the spotlight.

They have to handle all project status updates, even in areas they're not interested in.

They may need to do mundane tasks and clear technical roadblocks for their team.

Project leads are expected to be on call most of the time and be ready to respond to any issues.

✦

There is a constant push for software engineers to reach the next level, but the higher levels come with increased responsibility and commitment.

04:27

Entry-level software engineers have a more relaxed work life, with less pressure and fewer hours.

Senior and staff software engineers have high levels of pride and ego, driving them to seek higher levels.

The race and hustle to reach the next level of seniority never really ends.

The ideal level of seniority for many is around level 5, where there is autonomy and respect without overwhelming responsibility.

✦

Starting a side hustle can be a way to have more control over your career advancement and decision-making, instead of relying on the company's promotion process.

05:28

Senior software engineers often use their personal time to find new initiatives and opportunities for advancement.

Starting a side hustle allows for decision-making control and potential for more money and prestige.

✦

Challenges of Climbing the Career Ladder

06:00

It can be difficult to find impactful projects that lead to promotion within a company like Facebook, as most features and optimizations are already in place.

Senior engineers need to take on larger, more complex projects that may involve dealing with team members and code refactoring.

Higher levels within a company may be important for internal recognition, but external perception often just focuses on the company name.

Senior members are also targeted and face more conflict with other teams, especially in technical discussions.

✦

Differences in Lifestyle and Income Between Entry-Level and Senior Engineers

08:00

Working at a company provides access to benefits like health insurance, life insurance, and maternity/paternity leave.

Senior engineers and entry-level engineers have similar lifestyles in terms of social activities and company-issued tools.

Senior engineers may have higher social status and drive more expensive cars, but housing affordability is still a challenge.

Having a side hustle can significantly increase income and bring the level of financial comfort closer to that of high-ranking employees.

✦

Recommendation for Learning and Self-Development

10:00

Blinkist app offers key insights from non-fiction books, allowing for quick learning in just 15 minutes.

Visiting blinkist.com/techlead grants a free one-week membership, with the option to cancel anytime, and 25% off for full membership.

✦

Question for Viewers

11:00

At what point do you think the additional rewards and respect from climbing the career ladder are not worth the increased time, effort, and stress?

00:00 welcome back taglite here now before we

00:02 get started today i have a few quick

00:04 announcements i wanted to make just some

00:05 logistics to take care of and it is that

00:07 i just needed to remind you all that i

00:09 am an ex-google x facebook

00:12 multi-millionaire tech lead so with that

00:14 taken care of and out of the way we can

00:16 actually get started today

00:17 and i wanted to talk about senior

00:20 software engineering

00:21 i actually get a lot of questions from

00:23 people who want to figure out how to

00:24 become a senior software engineer and

00:26 sometimes they get into a company they

00:27 feel like they're

00:28 under leveled and they want to get into

00:30 as high level as possible

00:31 and especially from my perspective as

00:33 somebody who's actually climbed this

00:34 whole career ladder

00:36 to staff software engineer that's about

00:37 e6 l6 level at facebook or google

00:40 ad fang this isn't the top say 10 to 15

00:43 of software engineers at these top tier

00:44 tech companies it's a pretty difficult

00:46 thing to do it takes probably 10 to 15

00:48 years for most people to actually

00:49 achieve this level

00:51 and so i wanted to give you my thoughts

00:52 on this the pros and cons of this

00:54 and then potentially alternate paths in

00:56 your life that may be more rewarding

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01:25 lead and i'm getting the first 100

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01:29 description below now one thing to

01:31 understand is that software engineers

01:33 and this may be you

01:34 are some of the most prideful and

01:36 arrogant people on the planet and so

01:38 therefore they always believe that they

01:39 deserve more and they always want to go

01:41 to that next higher level

01:42 the thing is there tends to be a lot of

01:44 tidal inflation at a lot of smaller

01:46 companies

01:47 so startups tend to overinflate titles

01:49 as a means of a non-monetary reward for

01:52 their employees and in fact as many

01:53 startups there's no title below senior

01:55 software engineer and then their senior

01:57 senior software engineer and senior

01:59 senior staff software engineer as well

02:01 so therefore i see many so-called senior

02:03 software engineers applying into google

02:05 or facebook

02:06 and then they seem to get dismayed that

02:07 they're only being considered for

02:09 an intern role so that's the first thing

02:11 to realize everybody's always going

02:13 after more status

02:14 more prestige but at some point you may

02:16 reach a point where the rewards aren't

02:18 going to be worth the effort that you

02:20 have to put in

02:21 right you may reach a point of

02:22 diminishing returns and what i'm trying

02:24 to get at is that this point of

02:26 diminishing returns

02:27 you may reach it as soon as you've

02:29 entered a company right by the time you

02:31 get into say

02:32 entry level at google or facebook you're

02:34 pretty much at that point of diminishing

02:36 returns and you may not need to work

02:38 much harder after that

02:39 you know when i was working as a staff

02:41 software engineer there was an

02:43 uncomfortable

02:44 level of expectations on me it felt like

02:46 i was just in the spotlight 24 7 and all

02:49 eyes were always on me watching my next

02:52 move what was i going to do how was i

02:53 going to handle a project and i was

02:55 expected to stay on top of everything

02:57 and all of the project status updates

02:59 from everybody on my team

03:00 even from areas which i didn't have much

03:02 interest in i still needed to make sure

03:04 that i would stay informed on that

03:05 and make sure that these other engineers

03:07 on my team who they wanted to call

03:09 themselves senior software engineers but

03:10 they were actually operating

03:12 at the intern level i still had to make

03:14 sure that they would get their work done

03:16 and so i would just be busy all the time

03:18 often with mundane menial tasks like

03:20 maybe understanding how logging works

03:22 for some feature project that we're

03:23 working on making sure to clear some

03:25 technical roadblocks for my team

03:27 by reading up on some technical wiki on

03:29 some internal company webpage or having

03:31 to schedule meetings with people who

03:32 didn't really want to talk to me just to

03:34 make sure that we could all work

03:35 together

03:36 and as a project lead well you may be

03:38 expected to be on call most of the time

03:40 if there's a crash that happens at night

03:42 you know you kind of want to be there

03:43 know what's going on be ready to respond

03:45 the next morning you have to know all

03:47 about the crash what happened

03:49 know all about the major issues that are

03:50 happening in the projects read up on all

03:52 the emails

03:53 and this could just be a lot of load on

03:54 you maybe it's in the evening you want

03:56 to watch two netflix movies back to back

03:58 and you can only watch one whereas when

04:00 you compare this lifestyle to that of a

04:02 entry-level l3 e3 software engineer just

04:06 a basic software engineer

04:07 like these software engineers get to

04:08 just cruise you just do the work you've

04:10 been assigned

04:11 sit back relax take your two hour lunch

04:13 breaks you really only have to put in

04:14 say four hours of work a day maybe even

04:16 less is okay

04:17 surf rated sometimes and when you go

04:19 home at night and then there's a

04:20 production bug crash

04:21 well you can just continue watching your

04:23 netflix movies because somebody else is

04:25 going to take care of it you're not on

04:26 the hook here

04:27 and so that sounds like a pretty nice

04:28 life to me and really what's pushing

04:30 these people further

04:31 is ego or pride arrogance but you have

04:34 to remember that once you reach

04:36 say the highest level in the video game

04:37 for instance you kind of lose all

04:39 motivation after that and so once you

04:41 get to

04:42 say senior software engineer or staff

04:44 software engineer then the

04:45 race the hustle to that next level

04:47 starts all over again

04:48 and at some point you're just going to

04:50 think this this is just too much work

04:52 for me in retrospect i would say that

04:54 the staff software engineer level which

04:56 is around l6

04:57 it's it's a little bit too much it's a

04:58 little bit too much responsibility and a

05:00 little bit too tiring and

05:02 the sweet spot is around l5 senior level

05:05 and that's a level where you have a

05:06 decent amount of autonomy and respect

05:08 from

05:08 the peers around you and yet not too

05:10 much overbearing responsibility and

05:12 commitment

05:12 from outside of your standard 9 to 5

05:15 hours and i would say there's no real

05:16 rush to get there you can kind of take

05:18 your time and enjoy the progression at

05:20 each level

05:21 and in a sense l3 level entry level is

05:23 kind of the best because

05:24 you can really just cruise take your

05:26 time and what i would really recommend

05:28 if you're looking for more money for

05:30 more prestige for instance is maybe just

05:32 start a side hustle

05:33 on the side right so instead of putting

05:35 all of your effort into just the company

05:37 and trying to up level in that career

05:39 in an area where other people are going

05:41 to make the decision whether you get

05:42 promoted or not

05:43 you can kind of take things into your

05:45 own control by starting a side hustle

05:47 where you get to decide

05:48 how far you're going to advance in this

05:50 other business that you're working on

05:52 because the thing is that for senior

05:53 software engineers oftentimes they're

05:54 using their own personal time in the

05:56 evenings on the weekends

05:58 to figure out how to find new

05:59 initiatives you know i'd always be

06:01 spending my personal time digging

06:03 through the company code base or

06:04 looking around the internet for open

06:06 source projects where i can come up with

06:08 ideas for new initiatives and imagine if

06:10 i just took all of that time that i

06:12 would put into these other areas

06:14 and put it into my own side hustle

06:15 during that time i could probably have

06:17 built up another business on the side

06:18 right there

06:19 not to mention oftentimes when you're

06:21 working at the company it can be

06:22 difficult to find the proper project for

06:25 the proper

06:25 impact that you're looking at to take

06:27 you to that next promotion level

06:29 like for example when i was working on

06:30 facebook facebook itself is already a

06:32 very mature product so it can be

06:33 difficult to find areas that you can

06:35 improve on

06:36 all of the performance optimizations

06:38 network optimizations or low-hanging

06:40 fruit for project ideas features

06:42 most of them are already in there and

06:43 then anything else that's left it can be

06:45 hairy complex features that span a whole

06:48 areas that could take weeks or months to

06:50 really put in

06:51 and the thing is the higher level you go

06:53 the bigger project

06:54 it is you need to find you can no longer

06:56 just create little features or buttons

06:57 most of that work is for say

06:59 l3 l4 level software engineers and by

07:02 the time you're senior you really need

07:03 to start taking on

07:04 these bigger meteor architectural type

07:06 of projects that span multiple features

07:08 and pages and maybe across multiple

07:10 teams

07:11 and that could involve a lot of work

07:12 that you may not necessarily enjoy like

07:14 harassing other people hassling other

07:16 team members

07:17 trying to dig up information from people

07:19 maybe refactoring some terrible piece of

07:21 code that's really ancient

07:22 and you want to keep in mind that other

07:24 levels may be important for people

07:25 within the company in order to

07:27 distinguish themselves

07:28 from outside the company people just see

07:30 that you're working at some company

07:32 some big brand name right like you work

07:34 at qualcomm

07:35 intel facebook google whatever and the

07:38 level or the role or the team is really

07:40 almost something secondary right like if

07:41 i see somebody coming from microsoft

07:43 that's just x microsoft

07:45 not to mention i've also found that at

07:47 higher levels you become more of a

07:49 target

07:49 and this was especially true at facebook

07:51 where people on other teams they look to

07:53 you and they try to come

07:54 after you to harass you to figure out

07:56 ways to take you down

07:58 because it's going to make themselves

07:59 look a little bit better if they're able

08:00 to take down a senior member of some

08:02 other team

08:03 i found myself having to deal with more

08:05 conflict between my team and other teams

08:07 especially in technical discussions

08:09 where well i would have to be the

08:11 representative

08:12 speaking on behalf of my team because

08:14 nobody else was going to do that

08:15 so overall at least the way i see things

08:17 is that there's definitely value to

08:19 working at the company but

08:20 most of that value can be had simply by

08:23 gaining access

08:24 into the company walls and you don't

08:25 necessarily have to climb that career

08:27 ladder all the way up because

08:28 simply by being there you're able to

08:30 gain access to the excellent health

08:32 insurance that company provides and

08:33 health insurance is a big thing in the

08:34 us at least

08:35 and then after that maybe the company

08:37 offers you life insurance maternity

08:39 benefits

08:40 or paternity benefits right you could

08:41 just have a bunch of kids and just take

08:43 a bunch of time off after that right and

08:45 just keep having kids and taking time

08:46 off and that could just be a really

08:48 great lifestyle in and of itself

08:50 when you compare the lifestyle

08:51 differences of say an entry-level

08:53 software engineer

08:54 and then a senior engineer well

08:55 everybody's pretty much doing the same

08:57 stuff right people are going to the same

08:59 local bars

09:00 same restaurants people are living in

09:01 the same areas shopping at the same

09:03 supermarkets going to the same company

09:05 parties

09:05 using the same internal tools the same

09:07 company issued laptops and hardware

09:09 and maybe the only difference is that

09:11 senior software engineers are driving a

09:12 tesla

09:13 because hey they need to maintain their

09:15 status whereas

09:16 you get to drive a honda civic and maybe

09:18 they're ordering a steak for dinner

09:20 takeout which comes back

09:22 home cold and soggy whereas you're

09:23 ordering like a pizza and some custom

09:25 hamburgers

09:26 and the thing is in either case nobody

09:28 can really comfortably afford a house at

09:30 least not an attack hub like say silicon

09:32 valley where houses start at say

09:34 1.5 to 2 million just for something

09:36 basic in a decent school district

09:38 in order for that type of money you know

09:39 a lot of these people they have to be

09:41 like

09:41 startup founders or start up some side

09:43 business to really get to a comfortable

09:45 level like that i would say or maybe

09:47 like a double income family or something

09:49 like that which is why

09:50 i advocate aside house so like a basic

09:52 side hustle can easily start bringing in

09:54 pretty decent income

09:56 especially you can start taking off tax

09:57 write-offs as well and they can take you

09:59 into say l5 l6 l7 territory quite

10:02 quickly

10:03 and then you use the employment as a way

10:04 to provide for your basic lifestyle your

10:06 health insurance your social status

10:08 maybe your network your friends your

10:10 work colleagues and then that resume

10:12 building and career building

10:13 now if you're looking to learn more

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10:16 start a new site hustle or to go after

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11:19 so that'll do for me but i'd love to

11:20 hear your thoughts on climb being the

11:22 career ladder and at what point do you

11:23 think we reach diminishing returns where

11:25 the additional gains in say monetary

11:27 reward or respect from our peers just

11:30 isn't going to be worth

11:31 the additional required time effort and

11:33 responsibilities that additional stress

11:35 that comes with the role

11:36 if you like the video please give a like

11:38 and subscribe really appreciate that and

11:40 i'll see you in the next one thanks

11:41 bye

💫 FAQs about This YouTube Video

1. What are the challenges and rewards of becoming a senior software engineer?

Becoming a senior software engineer brings challenges such as increased responsibility and the need to constantly prove oneself, but also comes with the reward of autonomy and respect from peers.

2. Is it worth the effort to climb the career ladder to the staff software engineer level?

Climbing to the staff software engineer level brings a high level of responsibility and commitment, which may not be worth the effort for everyone. The sweet spot may be at the senior level, where there is a good balance of autonomy and respect without being overburdened.

3. What alternative paths can be more rewarding than pursuing the highest levels of software engineering?

Starting a side hustle or focusing on personal projects can be more rewarding than solely pursuing the highest levels of software engineering, as it allows for more control and decision-making in one's career advancement.

4. What are the challenges of climbing the career ladder in a tech company?

Climbing the career ladder in a tech company presents challenges such as the difficulty in finding impactful projects for career advancement, the need to take on larger and more complex projects at higher levels, and the potential for increased conflict and being a target for others.

5. How does the video suggest that the value of working at a tech company can be attained without climbing the career ladder?

The video suggests that the value of working at a tech company can be attained without climbing the career ladder by gaining access to company benefits and perks, such as health insurance, life insurance, and maternity/paternity benefits, and by having a good work-life balance and lifestyle without the added stress and responsibilities of higher-level positions.

6. What difference in lifestyle is mentioned between an entry-level software engineer and a senior engineer at a tech company?

The video mentions that the difference in lifestyle between an entry-level software engineer and a senior engineer at a tech company is not significant, with both levels enjoying similar social and work benefits, and that the additional gains in monetary reward and respect may not always be worth the added time, effort, and stress of climbing the career ladder.

7. How does the video advocate for starting a side hustle or additional business while working at a tech company?

The video advocates for starting a side hustle or additional business while working at a tech company as a way to attain financial comfort and career advancement without the need to climb the traditional career ladder, and emphasizes the potential for a good income and lifestyle through a side business.

8. What is the recommendation given in the video for personal development and career advancement?

The video recommends using the Blinkist app for personal development and career advancement, which provides key insights from non-fiction books in just 15 minutes, covering a wide range of topics from self-help to business and history, allowing for continuous learning and growth.

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