00:10perry clavon is the director of
00:12executive education at the d school and
00:14an adjunct faculty professor at stanford
00:16school of engineering he's a seasoned
00:18entrepreneur and a product designer but
00:20despite his years of running startups
00:22and corporations perry's true calling is
00:25teaching which is why we love to have
00:26him it's so much fun and then also with
00:29us today we have jeremy utley jeremy is
00:31the director of executive education at
00:33the d school and an adjunct professor at
00:35stanford school of engineering he's also
00:37an outstanding collaborator and teaches
00:40many celebrated courses at stanford
00:41gentlemen it's always a pleasure thank
00:44you for being here with us today and
00:48awesome thanks so much robin we're
00:50thrilled to get to see everyone today
00:52and we're excited to get started
00:55this question what is design thinking
00:57and why should i care is something that
00:58we hear often at stanford and in the
01:02there's a great thing about design
01:03thinking becoming a popular term which
01:05is that lots of people are curious about
01:07it it's somewhat well known but there's
01:09a downside which is that all of a sudden
01:11it starts to seem special or
01:14inaccessible and that's ironic
01:17for us because the goal of design
01:19thinking is actually to make
01:21the tools and mindsets and ways of
01:23thinking that have helped designers
01:25solve problems available to folks who
01:28don't consider themselves to be
01:29designers or maybe even don't consider
01:31themselves to be creative so very simply
01:34design thinking is a way of coming up
01:36with ideas and seeing whether they're
01:38any good very simply and it's meant to
01:41be not some specialized thing that's
01:43reserved for the chosen few but a set of
01:46tools that can help anyone in any career
01:49in any organization in any role in the
01:52be more effective at solving the
01:54problems you're tackling there whether
01:56those problems look like
01:58introducing new products into the market
02:00or crafting a sales pitch or writing a
02:02subject line to an email or
02:05designing an expense reimbursement
02:10as opportunities for design thinking or
02:13for coming up with ideas and learning
02:15whether they're good ideas very simply
02:17just to get started we want to start
02:18with this quote by linus pauling
02:22he said to get a good idea you need a
02:24lot of ideas and that's something that
02:26very few people really appreciate it's
02:29the it's said so simply as only a
02:31two-time nobel prize winning chemist
02:33could say it but it's actually profound
02:37what the research indicates is that the
02:39single most important variable
02:42that affects how good your ideas are
02:45is how many ideas you have
02:49and so while many people are really
02:51focused on coming up with better ideas
02:53the truth is they should be coming up
02:56the way to get to better is actually to
02:58generate more and what we would say is
03:01that design thinking is an exceptional
03:04idea generation methodology to put it
03:06very simply it's a great way to come up
03:09with a volume of ideas and you may be
03:12familiar with a process visualization
03:14that we've used and popularized now
03:17about 10 or 15 years ago through a video
03:19that perry and i made and we released it
03:21on youtube it ended up being viewed gosh
03:23half a million or maybe even a million
03:25times and so this visualization became
03:28very popular probably more popular than
03:30it should have become but it became a
03:32way to describe one way to think about
03:35what designers do which is very simply
03:37they empathize with people they're
03:39trying to design for meaning they try to
03:41get to know them and understand their
03:42feelings and emotions etc then they
03:45define a problem to be solved meaning
03:47they start with that loose understanding
03:49of human beings and say what problem
03:51really matters to those people and then
03:53they idh they generate a bunch of
03:55potential solutions and through series
03:57of prototyping and testing implement
04:00and refine and discover whether their
04:02ideas are any good and the useful thing
04:05about this way of visualizing the
04:07process is it helps us put various tools
04:10that designers might use that we might
04:12recommend that anyone in any role might
04:14consider bringing into their problem
04:16solving process it helps us put them
04:20that's been really great the downside of
04:22us using this visualization is a lot of
04:26people have taken design thinking as a
04:28recipe of sorts or a formula of sorts
04:31and they assume that if you you know if
04:33you empty the powder into the bowl and
04:34then you add water and then you beat it
04:37and add an egg that all of a sudden the
04:39cake's gonna come out and so it's not
04:42it's a little bit misleading in so far
04:44as it looks like a linear sequence of
04:46events that has a clear beginning and an
04:47end point it's more a set of mindsets
04:50and so rather than talking about a fixed
04:52process per se what we thought would be
04:54fun to do is actually introduce design
04:56thinking by way of a story because we
04:59have the incredible privilege of getting
05:00to interact with some of the most
05:02innovative individuals and innovative
05:04organizations and even organizations
05:06that don't really seem innovative but
05:08employees actually are and they're doing
05:10really cool things we hear a bunch of
05:12great stories and we feel that we're
05:14stewards of those stories we have the
05:16opportunity to showcase how a mindset of
05:18a designer leads to breakthroughs and
05:21leads to realizations and meaningful
05:24impact in human beings lives so we want
05:26to tell quickly the story of our friend
05:28bill pacheco who has a very had a very
05:31illustrious career not only as an
05:33engineering leader at cybex but also as
05:36a director at keurig dr pepper and he
05:39now teaches at trinity college most
05:42importantly though i like to think that
05:44his that the most important organization
05:46he's involved with is perry's nightmare
05:48where he is my doubles partner in tennis
05:50and we like to give very hard time on
05:52the tennis court but perry would you
05:54like to tell the story of bill and his
05:56incredible innovations
05:59so pleasure i just said just to clarify
06:01on the tennis you know front there you
06:03know there's another partner involved i
06:05have a doubles partner logan may be on
06:07the on the group right now logan deans
06:09and i um and uh you know bill gets a lot
06:12of practice these days he and his
06:14brother play all the time so
06:16um anyway and i you know i'm pretty busy
06:18here phil you know so anyway um uh bill
06:22also teaches at bu now as well so boston
06:24university um terrific fellow and it's
06:26such a pleasure one of the great things
06:28about doing the work we do is actually
06:31um not only talk about alumni of the
06:33programs but use these live examples and
06:36this is something great about the the
06:38programs we put together is it's just
06:40terrific to with linkedin and hear
06:42stories from you all and see how you're
06:43using the tools we teach and it actually
06:45drives a lot of the changes bill for
06:48the story i'm about to share with you a
06:50lot of the techniques we use in
06:52prototyping that one step jeremy talked
06:55about have come from the direct work
06:58so with that we'll talk about so for
07:00those of you that that the two companies
07:04keurig is a coffee company it has those
07:06capsules you may have you stayed in a
07:08hotel or been to you know an airport or
07:11whatever their capsules and they have
07:13this neat technology he he was um did
07:16the product design there for a period of
07:17time with the team and also um earlier
07:19in his career when we met him he was
07:21working at a company called cybex if
07:24you've been on a treadmill machine if
07:26you've been on an elliptical trainer
07:28a stationary bicycle
07:30they're one of the major major suppliers
07:32of equipment like that and chances are
07:34you've been on something actually bill's
07:36designed if you've been to a hotel gym
07:39and actually used anything or for a big
07:45i wanted to go and talk a little bit so
07:47we're going to dive a little bit deeper
07:48on so so what we're going to tell is a
07:50story of bill using design thinking as a
07:53way to sort of bring life to the
07:55the steps that um jeremy spoke about and
07:59actually be able to talk to you about
08:01what this looks like in real life okay
08:03and i think that's a big component we're
08:05passionate about this program is
08:07we cover all aspects of design thinking
08:10how you might use it in teams and how
08:12you might use it in a larger larger
08:13organization which is what this story's
08:16here's um cybex cybex is part of a group
08:20making a product so we're going to talk
08:24um treadmills so treadmills the thing is
08:26you you hop on top of and you run
08:29and you actually use for um a workout
08:31okay so these are their competitors so
08:34at the time we sort of click into this
08:37you know about 10 years ago probably
08:39bill was was doing this kind of work um
08:42these are the competitors and they're
08:44you know like any company they're sort
08:46of duking it out with these people you
08:48know fighting for market share
08:52having had you know training in design
08:56went to a gym and actually um used some
08:59of the techniques of empathy that first
09:01stage is you sort of open up your brain
09:03you you observe you um
09:06maybe inquire and actually talk to folks
09:08asking more open-ended questions but you
09:10leave yourself open to inputs there's
09:12many many different techniques this is a
09:14good example of observation so what bill
09:17did was he took his notebook spent a
09:19while and just stayed and watched
09:21and what he noticed you can tell he's he
09:23shared these pictures you can see these
09:24folks if you just go in close to your
09:26screen you'll see these these amazing
09:28machines that have you know all this
09:30terrific technology and these monitors
09:32all stuff people are holding on to all
09:34the screens and and holding on to things
09:37for dear life you got the sense
09:38there's something more going on here
09:42i'm aware of you know this is and
09:44something we seek to understand in those
09:47early stages of design thinking is
09:49understanding emotions of the users
09:52not he didn't measure you know um how
09:54long are people on the treadmill how
09:56much do they you know talk about it
09:57wasn't data collection he was really
10:00any what he noticed was the emotion that
10:02was fear what he knows is people were
10:05afraid on these machines and he thought
10:07oh my god that's that's super
10:08interesting to understand and use that
10:11to launch into design thinking and begin
10:13to understand this this um
10:16why they might be feeling fear and take
10:19very open perspective to that so as he
10:21as he talked to folks and and began to
10:27some ideas around basically changing
10:30the structure around these products so
10:33keep in mind now he's part of an
10:34organization cybex he has a boss
10:37um and this is a category of product
10:40that the assumption was like many
10:43it's it's pretty much set there's a
10:45there's a treadmill you run on there's a
10:48screen you know we've got lots of
10:50competitors there's much better things
10:52you know bill could be working on so he
10:55did some quick drawings he sort of said
10:57i'm gonna i'm gonna try to make a
10:58machine that that deals with this aspect
11:00of fear and maybe gives people more
11:02places to hold on to he did some quick
11:04prototypes he did some quick drawings
11:08and like we all do he went to his boss
11:10and he showed it to him and this is the
11:12the note he got back
11:14so those you can't read it says uh he
11:16did this presentation and showed there's
11:18a picture behind this that's that's
11:19hidden but it's a it's a prototype with
11:21these pvc pipes that he sort of built
11:24out quickly which is a technique of
11:25rapid prototyping so he's got this
11:27insight about fear he's done some work
11:30to build something he's got some ideas
11:31and his boss ray says
11:33i'm not a fan of anything in this
11:37part of what we see as folks use these
11:40tools and techniques in their
11:41organization is they're new
11:43and part of what uh jeremy actually does
11:45a component with another collaborator
11:46from stanford uh justin farrell about
11:49how you might think about approaching
11:52this this was a typical response is you
11:56there's nothing to do with treadmills
11:57treadmills are a safe business his boss
11:59wanted him to move on and do something
12:02um what he knew was bill knew he had a
12:04great insight he knew the the end user
12:07was afraid he knew there needed to be
12:09changes he could tell there was an
12:11opportunity to sort of pursue this
12:13so what he did was he went a step
12:15further and he actually um decided to
12:17take a little bit of extra time you know
12:20not not a huge amount of time but but
12:22built up some really quick prototypes
12:24and began to sort of put these extra
12:26railings on and these these things that
12:28were sort of designed very very
12:30differently to allow people points of
12:32connection to the machine that weren't
12:34about the electronics and weren't about
12:36things that were not intended for that
12:37purpose which is what he saw before
12:40and he did a really interesting thing
12:41that as you get to the design process
12:44you he's he noticed something in empathy
12:46this idea of fear he framed it up and
12:48said i'm gonna build a machine that
12:50addresses these these um points of
12:53stability and these these fear points
12:55and what drives that fear he ideated
12:56came up with a bunch of ideas that was
12:58that presentation he did one step
13:00further he said hey i'm gonna prototype
13:03and that's a great way to validate to
13:06say i'm going to put this out there for
13:07just a little bit and see if
13:09see how the user responds to it so his
13:11his idea was to show his his boss
13:14ultimately some information from that
13:15prototype and test cycle which is what
13:18so he went out he put these really rough
13:20prototypes they they look really
13:22polished but he's literally welding
13:23little bars onto them and making him
13:25look good he took him to a hotel gym and
13:28he measured how many people picked the
13:30machine with these new
13:32you know rails and new sort of
13:34ergonomics how many people picked the
13:36existing machine they were just side by
13:37side and he got really good data and
13:39something we espoused with our students
13:41is how do you actually put something out
13:45and use it to to make sure you validate
13:48it not only validated the problem jerry
13:50talked about there's sort of two things
13:52definitely validated by people picking
13:55there's something to the
13:57the aspect of fear they look at that
13:59machine and they say no no they want
14:00this one and then he would talk to
14:02people after using it and see what their
14:04experience was like and get that data
14:06that data allowed him ultimately to put
14:08something into market
14:10so this is a was a success financially
14:14great for the company great outcome
14:17but more so what bill knew was he was
14:19solving a real human need which is at
14:21the core of what we teach with design
14:23thinking is too often we sort of walk
14:26through like accepting an existing
14:28problem statement you know a lot of
14:29business problem statements might be
14:31around how do we increase revenue or how
14:34in the reframe that happened with bill
14:36was he learned hey for for our products
14:38there's this emotion fear
14:40and i'm gonna actually use that to
14:42design and ultimately design a far
14:44better product and it's a great outcome
14:47and a terrific product and if you see it
14:48in the marketplace you'll know all the
14:50backstory of where it came from but i
14:52think a good example of running through
14:53that entire cycle of design
14:57it's an amazing story and there's some
14:59amazing uh comments happening in the
15:01chat too someone mentioned uh let's see
15:05ray said wait you're telling me that he
15:07took action and made a prototype even
15:09after his boss said he didn't like it
15:11and what we'd say is there's really two
15:13really important things there that are
15:14worth unpacking just in response to that
15:17um that question right or that
15:19realization right because a lot of us go
15:20my boss said he hates it
15:22so it's done but design thinking is
15:25really useful and it relates to vivian's
15:27point around the pandemic of trust as
15:31design thinking puts us in such close
15:33proximity to the people that we're
15:34designing for or we're trying to
15:36innovate for and it could be a you know
15:38a human being in a gym it could also be
15:40an employee who's the recipient of an hr
15:43policy or an employee who's trying to
15:46file their expense reimbursements or it
15:48could be it could be any one of those
15:51things right so we don't mean to only
15:53limit this way of thinking to new
15:55product introductions but the point is
15:58using a designer's mindset one of the
16:00things we advocate is getting close to
16:01the people whose lives you're hoping to
16:05and what happened for bill is he got
16:09that people were afraid people felt
16:11unsafe and as he's watching and
16:13interacting with people in gyms that
16:15conviction grew there's there's a need
16:18for for a perception of safety here
16:20that i feel is a really a real human
16:23need a real human pain that deserves to
16:25be met and i think and we've seen that
16:27countless times with many individuals
16:29inside organizations the senior
16:31management will say you know to our
16:33friend doug deeds who pioneered an
16:35incredible innovation at ge with a
16:37pediatric device that the senior
16:39leadership at the time said there's very
16:41few pediatric wards in the united states
16:43don't waste your time on this but just
16:46doug had engaged with the people whose
16:49lives he was trying to improve with
16:52and he felt their pain strongly enough
16:55to ignore what his bosses said
16:57effectively and one of the amazing
16:59things about design is all of a sudden
17:01you can quickly become the resident
17:03expert in the people's lives who you're
17:05hoping to transform with your work
17:07efforts and so that's the first thing
17:09the second thing is and i think it's
17:11also related to ray's question about
17:13wait bill just pushed through even
17:14though his boss said no
17:16what he realized is his boss is reacting
17:20but he has no information he doesn't
17:22understand there's no way to
17:23contextualize the idea other than
17:25according to his own past history
17:28and what bill realized what's really
17:29magical is part of the design mindset is
17:33really quickly i can actually create
17:35data you know our organizations love
17:37data and we think about looking up data
17:39and looking up research reports but what
17:41designers are doing or what individuals
17:44who don't consider themselves creative
17:47but who are using these tools that's who
17:49we're calling designers what designers
17:51do is they're actually finding clever
17:53ways to create new data sets
17:56which help them make better decisions
17:58and as perry mentioned when bill put the
18:01couple of you know prototype units
18:03inside of a hotel he was able to watch
18:05people vote with their feet
18:07and so even though ray's got 65 patents
18:10in the space and even though he thinks
18:11it's a bad idea he can't deny the fact
18:13that when 30 people walked into the gym
18:1628 of them chose this machine
18:18why did they choose it that really
18:20validated the sense of fear that bill
18:22had picked up on right and so it's that
18:24kind of enlightened trial and error that
18:26we're advocating where you're really
18:28deeply connecting with the people whose
18:29lives are hoping to change
18:31and then you're willing humbly to be
18:33learning whether you've got it right or
18:35not and if bill had implemented it and
18:37it didn't go well i think he would have
18:39given up the hunt or he would have found
18:40a different way to go about trying to
18:42convey a sense of safety but the point
18:44is not insubordination the point is
18:47thoughtful care about how do we impact
18:50the people whose lives we are trying to
18:53impact and how can we help stimulate our
18:56own thinking as we said at the beginning
18:58with this linus pauling quote
19:00we need a lot of ideas
19:03there's some research that indicates
19:04that the average corporate brainstorm
19:07generates two ideas just two
19:09and so what design thinking does is it
19:13teams overcome that tendency to settle
19:17but we mentioned before that this this
19:20way that we've been describing the
19:22design process is a little bit outdated
19:24and so we thought would be fun to do
19:26before we dive into some more of these
19:28questions here and perry maybe you can
19:29be looking at the questions and seeing
19:30if there's anything that we want to
19:32start with but we thought it'd be useful
19:34to say how we think about describing the
19:36process now if it's not these five
19:38colorful hexagons how do we describe it
19:40now and what we'd say is very simply
19:43design thinking is made in advance on
19:44conventional problem solving
19:47where conventional problem solving
19:49basically is this a boss says implement
19:51this solution they hand you a grain of
19:53sand they hand you an ideopost it do
19:55this right that's it and what design
19:58thinking said it makes two meaningful
20:00advances the first advance that we
20:02advocate is we say hang on before we
20:04converge on one solution let's diverge
20:06and let's generate as many
20:08possible ideas or ways to solve the
20:11problem that's been given as possible
20:14so the first step is diverge before we
20:16come verbs right and that's an enormous
20:18advance over implement this solution the
20:21other significant advance that we have
20:23made in the d-school is that we've said
20:25actually let's recognize that there's
20:27two pieces to any problem-solving
20:31and we think a lot about problem-solving
20:33but let's stop for a second let's talk
20:34about problem finding
20:36because really implicit to any solution
20:38we're trying to implement is a problem
20:39that we think we want to solve and what
20:43have become very adept at
20:45is being as clear about the problem
20:48they're trying to solve
20:49as they are about the solution that
20:50they're advocating and just like with
20:53the solution it's also an opportunity
20:55that we diverge we generate lots of
20:57potential problems and ways of thinking
21:00about the problem or framing as we might
21:01say before we converge and it's useful
21:04to think that there's these two
21:06discrete outputs to a design effort
21:08because a lot of times people just think
21:10about the answer and what we would say
21:12is the question is every bit as
21:13important john dewey the famous american
21:16educational reformer said a problem well
21:18put is half solved and so a lot of the
21:21efforts that we spend in the design
21:23practice and that you might spend if
21:25you're doing finance or hr or product
21:27development or marketing or content
21:29strategy a lot of your time is actually
21:31spent framing a problem worth solving
21:34before you ever even undertake the tools
21:35to think about how you solve it the goal
21:38ultimately is to get this high degree of
21:40alignment where you have a high degree
21:43of confidence that the problem that
21:45you've identified and the solution
21:46you've imagined overlap and everybody's
21:51is that these things would overlap
21:52perfectly it rarely happens that way in
21:55the beginning more often than not
21:57there's kind of a misfit and there's not
22:00there's not quite the right way to think
22:03about it and so teams
22:05that get good at design are constantly
22:07assessing both of the of these things
22:10the problem that they've articulated and
22:11the solutions they've imagined and
22:13they're assessing their fit
22:16the way they assess their fit is by
22:20by being clear about not only what
22:22they're working on meaning right now we
22:24focus on the problem or we focus on the
22:26solution but also how they're working
22:29meaning are we are we generating options
22:31are we making decisions so if you think
22:33about those that kind of that two by two
22:36there are four discrete buckets
22:39that we could draw from at any time to
22:40help us think about how we might advance
22:42our thinking and when we talk about
22:44process now a lot of times we talk in
22:46terms of these buckets because it's a
22:47little bit more useful it's a little bit
22:49less prescriptive it's a little bit less
22:51sequential and it helps us capture the
22:54is for any team to be able to be
22:57fluent about what kind of activity do i
23:00need to undertake right now to continue
23:03my learning about the problem we're
23:04trying to solve or the way that we're
23:06trying to solve it and so ultimately
23:08we aren't looking for robots or
23:10automatons who can perfectly recite
23:12chapter and verse on the correct
23:14sequence of events so much as
23:16individuals who have a fluency and a
23:19confidence and a capability around self
23:21navigating what am i working on right
23:23now how should i be working and what
23:26tools would be appropriate for me to
23:28draw upon next that's how we like to
23:30think about process here with that i'll
23:32stop and maybe perry have you seen a
23:33couple questions that we want to dive
23:39so rick white uh in the middle of the
23:41list made a great comment and um i
23:44wanted to go back to it so it's number
23:46if yours are numbered it's number 33.
23:48um but it's a it's a great comment
23:52punctuates something you've been saying
23:54and i think he he he wrote it better
23:56than you said it just gotta call it out
23:58there you got it i love it he said um
24:02businesses seem to keep us focused on
24:08it seems like you are saying that
24:10creative process needs more inputs
24:14that's a that's i wish that we had you
24:17know like put that at the at the
24:19beginning as like almost like a tenant
24:21for designers which i very much agree is
24:23you're mindful of inputs
24:25so in the story about bill he was
24:27mindful about inputs he was mindful
24:29about going out and getting more content
24:32he was sort of able to say
24:34you know if i think about treadmills or
24:36think about the next project i'm going
24:37to work on have i spent some time in a
24:40gym and just observed have i spent some
24:42time do i have some ideas about how
24:46on some of that and he may have gone
24:50he noticed somebody on the stationary
24:52bicycle to be a different story about a
24:54stationary bicycle but he was mindful
24:57i need i need some input
24:59and he's as an individual i know him to
25:01be that way now he's mindful about his
25:03inputs and mindful about am i spending
25:05time you know we give one actually one
25:07of the components of the class is about
25:11and about techniques for you as an
25:13individual to build being mindful about
25:16inputs into your practice but designers
25:20to frame up interesting new questions
25:26but bill found a really interesting
25:29problem because he was mindful of inputs
25:32and then later on when he said hey you
25:33know what my what my maybe my boss needs
25:36is some other input to this project
25:39some some information from testing to
25:42um and then there was a question i
25:44wanted to sort of tie in with this which
25:49fascinating so jonathan
25:51laplante um number three i'm glad you
25:53pointed that one out hoping for them too
25:55i've tried the design thinking
25:57brainstorming method with a few business
25:59partners and our issue is usually that
26:02we end up with a list of hundreds of
26:04ideas which is great work awesome
26:08some of them really good
26:10but then we go back to the opportunity
26:13we had before the design thinking
26:14brainstorming session
26:16sadly i find business partners will fall
26:19back on whatever seems like it is the
26:23what they know and don't want to so it
26:25goes on but but the idea is you're
26:29when you use this process
26:32bill sort of in a way that story we we
26:34tell the magical story of persevering
26:36and making it through that and um you
26:38know getting to a very interesting
26:42what i love jonathan is the honesty so
26:44thank you for the comment that
26:46one thing that's hard is you know so
26:48many of the problems you know we face
26:51and i'm sure all of you face in your
26:52personal life and your professional life
26:55sort of that the problem you know
26:57presupposes this path and
27:00you know i think we come in we say oh
27:02design thinking you know wander around
27:04and look at these things and dream up a
27:06new problem and you know the reality is
27:08i love john that well that's super fun
27:10and we did that and we generally watched
27:12your idea but then you come back in and
27:15it's we got to get stuff done here we're
27:18done with the design part you know we've
27:19got to select something got to move
27:21forward with something that that for
27:23sure solves this problem and we'd say
27:26the the one of the things we espouse and
27:28sort of you if you think about design
27:30thinking it's largely
27:32we're finding a problem and then we're
27:34we're solving that problem is this
27:36there's two halves of the diagram or or
27:38on the screen right now the two halves
27:40of what's happening there
27:41you know we would say on the on the um
27:44the product side on the on the
27:46production side we espouse really really
27:49rapid prototyping techniques so taking
27:52an attitude of how can i spend
27:55just a little bit longer or even shorten
27:57if you're coming up with hundreds of
27:59ideas hundreds of ideas john then i
28:01would say shorten your brainstorming
28:02time and leave time right then and there
28:06to build some of the ideas to make some
28:07really rough prototypes to
28:09to keep alive some of the wilder ideas
28:12and say we're going to suspend this
28:15this sort of decision making and we're
28:16just going to build out a couple of
28:18these and make them real and we teach
28:21very very fast and simple low resolution
28:24prototyping techniques
28:26and that's a fabulous skill to go
28:28through life with is how do i build a
28:30quick prototype you know this is
28:32something you know robin who somebody
28:34was asking what was the name of the
28:36person robin's been amazing in building
28:38the content of the programs that's been
28:39the approach we've taken to to building
28:42the courses is how do we do something
28:43really really quick to jeremy's point
28:45put it up on youtube get some feedback
28:47and then do another one that's
28:48completely different and that's the way
28:49we approach it is the question i would
28:51be asking jonathan is how do i do
28:55you know 10 prototypes and do it so
28:57quickly and so efficiently that that we
28:59can do that in minutes and get some
29:01concepts to be real so we can actually
29:04have some data to evaluate because i
29:06think the thing is missing is you can
29:08select an idea from that list that's
29:10doable for the business but you you if
29:13you had a chance to compare it to some
29:15of the other ideas a little bit as you
29:17went further you might have some data to
29:22yeah the other thing i would say there
29:24just on that question
29:28if you don't have the opportunity to um
29:31if you don't have the opportunity to
29:32create something in the middle of the
29:35then then another great thing you can do
29:38is you can at least schedule time for
29:40creating something later we call that
29:42writing a love note to your future self
29:44because a lot of times you realize we've
29:46got potential here but we and we're out
29:48of time we're about to rush to other
29:51if if there's no ownership and there's
29:53no sense of uh when the follow-up is
29:56then there's not going to be a new
29:59unless there's new information and a lot
30:01of times folks teams tend to kick these
30:03decisions down the road or like you said
30:05just default to what we already decided
30:08and the only way to change that is if
30:10someone you know at amazon they call
30:12them single threaded ownership or single
30:15threaded leaders someone takes
30:17responsibility for it so a great a great
30:19tactic is as a leader say who's going to
30:21take this and run with us in the next
30:23week when we meet next week what are we
30:25what are we asking about are we asking
30:26about you know uh click-through rates
30:29open rates or like what what do we want
30:31to know about and then commission
30:33someone to actually create that data and
30:36then the other thing they'd say is what
30:37are they going to stop doing
30:39you can't give somebody something new
30:41without also kind of
30:43drawing back some level of
30:44responsibility so which two or three
30:46standing meetings do they not need to
30:48attend in the next week so that they can
30:50create that data a lot of times it's
30:52actually it's almost like you know i've
30:54worked in india for a while and there's
30:56what's known in india as the last mile
30:58problem it's like it's really difficult
31:00to penetrate to the last mile in rural
31:02areas and that's where the majority of
31:04the population is this is a last mile
31:06problem when it comes to
31:07operationalizing innovation
31:11what's the next step what's the outcome
31:13and a lot of times with nebulous new
31:17it's kind of nobody's job and if you
31:19allow it to be nobody's job leaving a
31:21meeting you shouldn't be surprised that
31:23nobody does anything right so to flip
31:25that script you have to actually assign
31:27the work and use it's go with enthusiasm
31:31who's stoked on it who really wants to
31:33see who really wants to explore great
31:35you're going to own it and we're so
31:37excited to see the data next week in our
31:41yeah the other one so there's a there's
31:42a bunch in here that follow up so ray a
31:45quick a quick question that i think
31:46follows up on that what method do you
31:49suggest to sort out a lot of ideas so
31:51the practical thing we we actually teach
31:54is is being mindful about selection
31:57so as you move from ideation you're
31:59generating lots and lots of ideas
32:01meaning you've you've found that that
32:03emotional insight as bill did he framed
32:06up a unique challenge how do i make uh
32:09people not fearful of their experience
32:11on exercise equipment if you generated a
32:14lot of ideas then you might select you
32:17might you might come up with more
32:18interesting selection criteria you know
32:20recently um another associative of ours
32:24uh dr catherine segovia who we teach
32:26with a lot who's actually in the
32:29program here she runs the practice
32:32we've been working with this medical
32:34company and we've been
32:36we've been talking to them a lot they're
32:37generating all kinds of new ideas about
32:39this this really interesting um medical
32:42product i can't go to details on it
32:44because it's all sort of super secret
32:46and we've talked a lot about this topic
32:48of how do you select ideas you know one
32:50selection criteria if you want to go you
32:52know back and talk about
32:54um you know rick and jonathan a little
32:56bit they you might just default to a
32:57selection criteria what's within our
32:59budget what can we do
33:00we've talked about being more mindful of
33:02selecting ideas you know what could
33:04dazzle you know the customer
33:06what what could make the custom in
33:08billscape what would make the customer
33:10feel incredibly safe
33:12what would make the customer feel like
33:14they could start you know immediately on
33:16this exercise device those might be
33:18selection criteria to sort through ideas
33:23exact selection criteria meaning what
33:26what jeremy and i do a lot in classes is
33:28we might take a group of ideas
33:31and select with one selection criteria
33:33we might select with the the you know
33:35what can we what can we what do we think
33:37we could do on a tight budget great
33:39there are a couple ideas that come to
33:40mind then we might take you know a
33:42different color you know um dot or a
33:45different color post-it and sort of put
33:47tabs on other ones we might select which
33:48one would most likely delight the
33:51which one would actually uh deliver a
33:54unique experience versus our competitors
33:58we're slicing and dicing ideas with
34:00multiple selection criteria and i think
34:02too often we move as
34:04these these folks talked about in those
34:06quite early questions with a singular
34:08one like we've got to have a list you
34:10know 100 this is the best this is this
34:12is what we're going to start with and
34:14what we espouse is mix it up try
34:16different selection criteria it's almost
34:19you get a mosaic sometimes it looks like
34:21a heat map where we're selecting with so
34:23many different criteria and you've got
34:24all these different colors to be
34:25different things on a group of post-its
34:28um that you can actually sort of see
34:31multiple aspects of solutions and come
34:33up with a um this is maybe a something
34:36we we can talk about in the in another
34:39question as well jeremy is this idea of
34:41building a portfolio that i think
34:44another thing designers do is they think
34:46about having a portfolio of solutions
34:51going to that single solution early on
34:53but saying how about i build a group of
34:55solutions how many select a bunch of
34:57different ideas based on different
34:59selection criteria it leaves my options
35:01open and it allows me to to have
35:04different prototypes out there
35:05generating comparative data
35:08and and helping me see the path forward
35:10out of vagueness to clarity and that's
35:14always espouse we have a we have a class
35:16called d leadership and i think at
35:18different times the the teams are
35:21two or three problem statements each was
35:23two or three prototypes so that it gives
35:26them it's a lot of work and a lot of
35:28sometimes and it gives them a lot of
35:30clarity as to a direction forward if you
35:32will that this idea of building multiple
35:34solutions and the same thing with having
35:36multiple selection criteria
35:38i wanted to um i wanted to go to ava de
35:41breva's uh i hope i'm saying that right
35:45or comment she said customers don't know
35:47what they want you can go ahead and ask
35:50uh as henry ford said if i ask my
35:52customers what they wanted they would
35:53have said a faster horse she uses these
35:55examples do you need amazon prime do you
35:57need facebook do you need airbnb so
35:59leaving them to come up with their needs
36:01based on the problems they have doesn't
36:02seem like the most efficient approach
36:04and ava if whatever you're doing for
36:06your employment doesn't work out please
36:08come and join our team at stanford
36:10because we couldn't agree more um there
36:13is we are not human-centered design is
36:15not customer-led design it's not uh it's
36:20taking instructions from the customer
36:22far from it and you have to be careful
36:24to craft uh experiments really is what
36:27we would say it's an experimental
36:28mindset that give you highly credible
36:31data and in another one of our sessions
36:33we you may have seen this if you've seen
36:35many of our webinars but it's worth just
36:37repeating very briefly
36:39just taking as this as a case study
36:42january 2016 the executive team of
36:45westfield mall in downtown san francisco
36:48is having a emergency meeting because
36:51tenants on their fourth floor moving out
36:53of the fourth floor rents are falling
36:56and they don't understand what to do
37:00a problem with foot traffic tenants keep
37:02saying not enough people are coming up
37:03here and despite the beautiful frescoes
37:05and panoramic views of the city
37:07it's not enough to drive foot traffic to
37:09the fourth floor and actually forestall
37:13and so they've got a crisis on their
37:15hands they had a quick brainstorm one of
37:17the ideas that came out of the
37:18brainstorm was we should put a beer
37:21garden on the fourth floor wouldn't that
37:22be amazing you know same thing about
37:24startup founders coming up like greek
37:26gods onto mount olympus and drinking
37:28ambrosia it'd be wonderful
37:33thought we should at least
37:34ask people if they like this idea
37:37they went down to the to the lobby to
37:39the first floor to the food court if we
37:41built a beer garden on the fourth floor
37:42gorgeous views would you come
37:44something like 85 percent of people said
37:48and so ava to your chagrin i'm sure they
37:52spent quite a bit of money to build out
37:53this beer garden and it won't surprise
37:56you i know ava to to realize that months
37:58later it was a colossal uh mishap they
38:03hardly attracted any more foot traffic
38:05to the fourth floor rents continued to
38:08tenants continued to move out and they
38:11were left scratching their heads saying
38:13what did we do wrong right
38:15we came up we brainstormed we came up
38:17with ideas we asked people what they
38:18wanted and they brought us in to be a
38:20part of that post-mortem so to speak and
38:23one of the things that became clear is
38:25they had this great data right they
38:27talked to a thousand people 850 of them
38:29said yes if you build it will come and
38:31what we challenged them on was it's it
38:33may be data but not all data is created
38:35equal and you ask people what they like
38:40you know is it i mean i've been the
38:41puppy dog intern before myself saying
38:44mister would you sign up for a magazine
38:46put me down for a nickel buddy you know
38:48and people say yes but it's not really
38:50an indication of what they'll do
38:52and we worked with the team as they
38:54tried to solve the problem in the future
38:57how do we create environments and
38:59experiences and offers that yield more
39:02highly credible data you know one of the
39:04simplest ideas that came out of this
39:08you can hire an hourly worker put them
39:10at the top of the fourth floor escalator
39:12outside of the you know elevator bank
39:14put a bunch of curtains up right not do
39:16any of the actual remodeling work or
39:19renovation work give the intern you know
39:22a pitcher a beer and a cactus so it's a
39:24beer garden technically
39:26and then put signs all over the mall
39:28saying visit our beer garden on the
39:29fourth floor it's like any time somebody
39:31comes up in turn form a beer you know
39:35where's the where's the garden while
39:36we're still working on it but we're so
39:38glad you're here right really quickly
39:40you know if the intern with his third
39:41hand or her third hand is just kind of
39:44how many people are coming up really
39:45quickly they realized that that value
39:47proposition wasn't driving foot traffic
39:48and the big question is when people
39:50become aware of an opportunity do they
39:52hit the fourth floor button on the
39:55and that's what they should have been
39:56measuring and because they said if we
39:59did it would you come they gave people
40:01an opportunity to lie to them
40:03customers will lie to you not because
40:05they're malicious but because one they
40:07can't imagine the truth and two
40:09i don't want to tell the poor puppy dog
40:11intern with the clipboard no it just
40:13doesn't feel good right so you have to
40:17um interactions that give you more
40:19highly credible data than survey
40:20information so to all that say just
40:23wanted to second what uh dr ava de brova
40:26professor emeritus mentioned
40:29don't ask people what they want we
40:33yeah and then you you've also answered i
40:36think a couple other questions jeremy
40:37somebody asked is there could you give
40:38an example of design thinking that
40:40doesn't involve um engineering
40:43um i think it was a jessica and then
40:47which is a great so now you get an
40:48example that involves beer drinking
40:51and i'd say somebody else um asked i
40:53think it was valerie one of your
40:57hey is it do you have to use this for a
40:59product and can you use it for a process
41:02and absolutely you can use it for a
41:04process i think that sometimes as
41:06examples uh we pick something that's
41:08like oh this is this is clever and a
41:09product tends to you know go and we can
41:12sort of tell a quick story and there's
41:14an output there's a thing that it all
41:15goes into um process we have we have
41:19amazing alumni stories i remember one
41:21that comes to mind was a executive one
41:23of our programs and design thinking that
41:26went uh back to american express and
41:29redesigned you know the entire process
41:31for for helping folks to get stuck in a
41:34in a big weather event you notice that
41:37hey one of the things that happens is
41:38all of our processes sort of break down
41:40in these big events like the recent one
41:42hurricane i did people are delayed stuck
41:44in airports we don't have new solutions
41:47and there's tech different techniques
41:48for it um we espouse a lot of um
41:52improvisational activities so if we're
41:54thinking about a product you know we you
41:56know valerie you and i are thinking
41:57about hey we have a different idea for a
41:59process what if somebody called in and
42:01then they got this and then this
42:02happened we might act it out i might act
42:05like the customer and you might act like
42:07the process sounds weird but i come in
42:10and say hey i'm perry i'm stuck in the
42:11airport and then you would you would
42:13respond you'd respond you know we run
42:15through a scenario together that would
42:17be one prototype then we try a different
42:19one and we might even do that with um
42:22then bringing in a actual outside user
42:25and um act as if it exists and run
42:28somebody through it with the minimum
42:30effort to sort of build anything
42:33and a lot of times this results in um
42:35sort of multiple flow charts so we might
42:37have a flow chart of one process and a
42:39flowchart of another and a flowchart of
42:40another and we we would sort of be able
42:42to compare which ones are faster which
42:44ones um you know result in um outcomes
42:48that are favorable which ones create new
42:49questions yeah we could we could again
42:51sort of look at those and evaluate them
42:57is is a largely actually if i think
42:59about so many of the student projects
43:01now we deal with process is becoming
43:03much more actually what we we use it for
43:08many many of the projects going on in
43:15i'm just trying to uh to answer a bunch
43:19as much as i can in the chat here looks
43:21like one link we shared at one point
43:24was broken i'm trying to go in and tell
43:26people that it's fixed yeah and i don't
43:29recall any questions somebody else was
43:31asking a little bit about um how to get
43:34teams to do this and how do you approach
43:37and um i would say one of the things i'm
43:40scanning for the person's name as i look
43:42somewhere else here but um
43:46anyway so if you could find jeremy it
43:48was earlier on but in terms of
43:49application of teams i think one of the
43:53big ideas with david kelly and starting
43:56the design school um
44:00students going through our programs have
44:03a consistent approach
44:05and i think the biggest thing to to
44:07bringing this into an organization
44:09is we we see a lot of times teams have
44:13you know one person's ideating while the
44:15next person's trying to build a
44:16prototype or somebody's trying to make a
44:18decision and converge while the other
44:20person to jeremy's point is diverging
44:21and coming up with new ideas
44:25teaching a consistent process to teams
44:27if there's any sort of
44:29amazing you know insight to what the d
44:31school has done at stanford is it's
44:33given language to students to to have
44:38and it's even a few of our a couple
44:40students even commenting here chris i
44:42see on there like on the questions
44:46so but i think they could comment as as
44:48well if if you ever talk to them is like
44:49it's really cool to have a consistent
44:51understanding because chris for example
44:54is a student on there is asking a
44:55question he comes to a session on
44:57wednesday mornings for this class we do
45:01and he might be talking to an mba
45:03student or a different student or
45:05something but they have a consistent
45:06understanding of an approach and
45:07consistent language around it so they
45:09can even comment on each other's work
45:11and dive in and help each other
45:13and for teams working that consistent
45:16understanding of a process is amazingly
45:19helpful particularly think about the
45:21kind of work we're working on it's
45:23uncertain work design is uncertain work
45:26so so in a way it it amplifies a lot of
45:29emotion it amplifies a lot of the the
45:31challenges with working with teams
45:34and consistency of understanding we're
45:36doing we're ideating right now we're
45:38generating ideas we'll make a decision
45:40at the end of that we'll then prototype
45:42and test we'll then evaluate the data
45:44from testing it gives um teams the
45:48ability to work effectively with a
45:50consistent approach to problem solving
45:52if there's one sort of tenant
45:55with this is we have seen it really
45:57really effective if a team has a
45:58consistent approach to a problem solving
46:06we have time for more questions you
46:07think perry or should we try to wrap or
46:09what do you what do you think
46:11i'm going to push these i just wanted to
46:13call it we had we had two folks that um
46:15asked questions that we wanted to
46:19marty these are people that submitted um
46:22early questions uh marty i thought this
46:24question was great about a
46:26water utilities so they're dealing and
46:28she's she's in water utilities
46:32and the question was how could i develop
46:34a way for people to use data
46:36collaboratively with the goal for them
46:38to adopt and embrace a new way to
46:40discommune community old practice so
46:42she's trying to design i i take this and
46:45i say wow uh marty is such an
46:47interesting problem and i'm glad because
46:49it follows on the heels of that that
46:51answer like hey design can be used for
46:53process this is a process and i think
46:56what's what's interesting is you should
47:00um you know do some of the work that
47:01david did i would say design thinking
47:03101 is go out and ask your peers you
47:06know ask them what kind of challenges
47:08they're having getting to you know
47:10decisions in the organization what kind
47:12of challenges they're having with
47:13people's understanding of data what kind
47:15of challenges they're having how they're
47:17feeling about results you'll gain some
47:19insights and then frame up the your
47:22effort i think is to design a new
47:23process inside of the company it's a
47:26great example sort of a more advanced
47:28example which i love we're covering
47:30um use the input from emotion frame up a
47:34and then actively try try running a
47:36meeting differently jeremy had mentioned
47:37this that a lot of times we some of the
47:39output we get is you know how do i run
47:41this meeting differently and that
47:43meeting is a chance to design and it's a
47:45thing that can be designed just like um
47:47you know the treadmill device
47:50um approach it as how do i gather more
47:52input you know i think you're you're i
47:55can tell a frustration i want to change
47:56this old practice we'll gather input
47:59from employees understand their
48:00emotional needs understand the
48:02challenges they're having
48:03build some problem statements around
48:05that and then try some prototyping
48:08and then the other one i wanted to cover
48:10do you want to cover this one jeremy
48:11that's such a interesting
48:17or nair from glendale this is an
48:19interesting product i could use it for
48:21my covet times it's a
48:23sensorized shoe insole that measures
48:27jeremy at different times of cover
48:29wait let's be honest jeremy you've had
48:31some problems with donuts both of us at
48:32different times i've had a few
48:35excursions that's true yeah yeah um
48:38so uh we want to provide one stress-free
48:40metric which will provide happiness and
48:42holistic feedback on how to increase
48:45activity and improve wellness
48:47should it be binary am i doing good or
48:50not or should it be a more detailed
48:54with all of the metrics so the there um
48:58i have no idea and i think you're asking
49:00this because it's the end seem to have
49:02no idea and the answer is
49:04i would this would be a fabulous thing
49:06the previous project as well as
49:08fabulous projects for design thinking
49:11it's like i think it'd be so interesting
49:15not about the metric
49:17that's not if you focus focus on what's
49:19the metric what's metric but i think
49:21what's so interesting is what do people
49:23want to know about their health i mean
49:25perry's joking about donuts but there's
49:27actually something i i would love to
49:29interview on this and be interviewed
49:31about what are my needs what what are my
49:32concerns about my health on a daily
49:34basis particularly in this in the world
49:36we're living in now where i'm standing
49:38you know square meter year for the whole
49:41you know how am i feeling about my
49:42health what what are what are um some
49:44potential you know things tell me about
49:46the lab man ask a question tell me about
49:48the last time you thought about your
49:50health while you're standing in front of
49:53and how do you address it tell me that
49:54story you could do all kinds of
49:56really fun interviews and get some
49:59insights and get some challenges and
50:01then potentially deliver different types
50:04of information prototypes so different
50:06types of answers on metrics and
50:08information to these individuals and get
50:10a sense of how they react to them and i
50:13wouldn't approach this as the one thing
50:14and the question i think is interesting
50:17looking for an answer i think early on i
50:20would look for how do i create a
50:22portfolio of potential dashboards of
50:24information how do i create dozens that
50:26i could show users that might be a
50:29mindset to take on the very beginning
50:30that i'm not going to get to that answer
50:33i'm going to get to a a bunch of
50:34different potential creative answers put
50:37them in front of users and i'm going to
50:38continue to learn and eventually get to
50:41a subset that we want to put out as
50:44so that jeremy i think we have just a
50:46couple minutes to cover
50:48that last bit of content
50:50yeah i would say the one thing that i
50:52would mention just before we've got a
50:54couple of slides we wanted to wrap with
50:56but one thing that i wanted to mention
50:59it's very important to realize
51:01conventional wisdom is often right and
51:05and in many organizations like you saw
51:07it with ray right there is a
51:09conventional paradigm you know 1905 is
51:12known as the miracle year i don't know
51:14if you're aware of this but it's when
51:17his groundbreaking works on relativity
51:21what's interesting is in 1900 just five
51:26lord kelvin had reported to the british
51:28association for the advancement of
51:31there is nothing new to be discovered in
51:33physics now all that remains is more and
51:35more precise measurement
51:37and he was the world authority in
51:39physics right which is to say what
51:42even the experts even world renowned
51:44experts are sometimes wrong
51:47and it takes a little bit of naivete it
51:49takes a little bit of fresh perspective
51:51it takes a big bit of a beginner's
51:53mindset to challenge convention
51:57and you shouldn't expect to challenge
51:58conviction convention and not experience
52:01resistance there's a reason it's
52:02convention conventional wisdom is
52:05but challenging it oftentimes leads to
52:07unexpected breakthroughs we've seen it
52:10across industries from arts to science
52:16challenging conventions is a really
52:18great way to do it but don't expect to
52:21your resistance free path there will be
52:24just as we wrap one of the things
52:26hopefully that you identified in all of
52:28our answers to these questions
52:31is we don't have the answers
52:33we are not answer guys we are approach
52:36guys and design thinking itself isn't an
52:38answer it's an approach and what we
52:42be thoughtful about your approach and we
52:44can coach individuals on the approach
52:46but i love like nera's question who
52:49knows if it should be binary right but
52:51you know what she what what perry
52:52basically advised her is define the
52:54outcome variable meaning what are you
52:56hoping somebody does
52:57check back again tomorrow
52:59share on social media whatever it is
53:01right define the outcome variable and
53:04then do both of those things and see
53:05which one impacts your outcome variable
53:07in the most desirable way wow when i
53:09make it binary all of a sudden people's
53:12engagement goes through the roof right
53:14when i give a detailed report it does
53:16right but we're advocating an approach
53:19and the approach that we advocate is one
53:21where we're mindful of the questions
53:23that are driving our action a lot of
53:26people talk about the miracle year terry
53:28just you know it's all the miracle year
53:30um but the uh i'm trying to watch chat
53:33and talk at the same time it's i
53:34wouldn't recommend it i'm like a a cow
53:37that has multiple stomachs
53:39except with my brain
53:41and i'm randomly thinking of metaphors
53:43while doing this my point is
53:46design thinking isn't isn't only action
53:49a lot of people think about design
53:50thinking they hear bias towards action
53:52and it could just be this frivolous
53:54random you know set of active flurry of
53:57what we advocate is thoughtful
54:00deliberate action where we just where we
54:02know we're not going to know the answer
54:03until we act so action is a must
54:06but what action we take is informed by
54:08thoughtful inquiry and we call it
54:10inquiry driven design and i'll just
54:13finish by saying if you think about how
54:17how do i know which bucket to draw from
54:20you've got to be able to answer a couple
54:22of questions one is what's our big
54:24unknown and i've got this here
54:26unfortunately the the uh on 24 someone
54:28mentioned on 24 needs to be redesigned
54:30that's funny um but it's a simple wheel
54:33where we can say okay what's my big
54:36do i not know the problem i'm trying to
54:38solve okay good or do i not know you
54:40know the answer to the problem i've
54:43identified right so what's our big
54:45unknown and then what kind of thinking
54:47is going to help us make progress do we
54:49need to be so once i say okay i'm on the
54:51blue right now do i need to be j uh you
54:54uh making decisions or do i need to be
54:57generating options right and if i say i
54:59need to be making decisions great then
55:02where do i need to be drawing tools from
55:04well i should probably be drawing tools
55:06from that converge on the solution
55:09i know these several tools to converge
55:12on solutions here's what's kind of
55:14behind those sliders there but
55:16are these questions basically but when
55:19the process of design we're not just
55:22talking about action and we're not just
55:24talking about a sequence or a
55:26prescription or a recipe we're talking
55:31approach to taking action in order to
55:34address uncertainty both on the
55:36solutions that we're imagining side and
55:39also on the problems we are attempting
55:41to solve aside so this is how we think
55:43about process hopefully this has been a
55:45demystifying experience for you
55:48our goal is to make these tools and
55:50these mindsets accessible
55:53somebody in product development and
55:55somebody in hr and somebody in
55:59wherever it is we believe that we can
56:00bring more rigor more fun and better
56:03problem solving to whatever role you
56:06might play in your organization whatever
56:08industry your organization might be in
56:10and we hope the tools we've shared today
56:12just wet your appetite a little bit
56:13there's no way to go in deeply into the
56:15tools but that's what the online
56:18programs are for there's an amazing set
56:20of resources and tools in these programs
56:22and we're excited to see how you use
56:24them not only to impact your work but
56:26also to change your life and to change
56:28the world we wish you all the best of
56:31and jeremy and your rap you didn't lose
56:33anybody 682 of you are still here
56:37so anyway awesome and we me when we say
56:40we we are passionate about these tools
56:42being out there and you using them and
56:44we love hearing from you with hard
56:47questions or you know um these amazing
56:50some people are sharing if you can see
56:52all the questions sharing how they view
56:54some of these tools and we just find
56:56that fascinating and it keeps us hard at
56:58work so thank you and thank all of you
57:00for the amazing uh questions we love it
57:03i wish we could get to all of them we
57:05have done our best um but thank you so
57:09perry and jeremy that was great and
57:11everyone who's here with us today the
57:15so fabulous it really felt like a
57:18personal one-on-one conversation and i
57:20just really love that dynamic also when
57:23you guys submit questions or you know
57:25expand on something that gives us great
57:27insight about where we need to go next
57:29so the content that we can produce
57:32answer these um so that was really
57:35helpful and thanks so much for joining
57:38us today and we're going to sign off
57:39from stanford thanks perry thanks jeremy
57:44have a great day everybody
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