The PERFECT Startup Guidebook - Step by Step Explained by Toshan Tamhane | FO 66 - Raj Shamani
Raj Shamani2022-12-09
raj shamani#shamani industries#figuring out with raj#inspirational#india#raj shamani podcast#figuring out#figuring out raj shamani#toshan tamhane#toshan tamhane podcast#toshan tamhane mckinsey#toshan tamhane upl#figuring out with raj shamani#hindi podcast#indian podcast#english podcast#motivation#indian startups#toshan tamhane interview#upl#startup#startup masterclass#guidebook#business#building startup#toshan tamhane the barber shop#how to build a startup
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💫 Short Summary
The video covers a range of topics, including sports icons' resilience, CEO storytelling, CFO and COO roles, entrepreneurship decision-making, investment philosophies, problem-solving methods, biases in decision-making, McKinsey alumni success, entrepreneurship landscape, founder skill development, consulting firms' role, and success mindset. Key points include maintaining a winner mindset, aligning long-term plans with short-term execution, eliminating trivial decisions, balancing passion and pragmatism in business, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptability in problem-solving. The video emphasizes the significance of ambition, hard work, and resilience in achieving success, alongside addressing critical issues in agriculture and climate change.
✨ Highlights
📊 Transcript
✦
Examples of extreme championship behavior in sports.
03:05Steven Redgrave's dedication and consistency in winning Olympic gold medals in five consecutive Olympics are highlighted.
Muhammad Ali's resilience in refusing to participate in the Vietnam War, losing his boxing title, and making a comeback is showcased.
The importance of maintaining a winner mindset and overcoming challenges is emphasized through these examples of sports icons.
✦
Importance of attention to detail in business operations.
12:34A story is shared about a mechanic efficiently solving a costly issue with minimal effort.
Six Sigma in Japanese engineering is mentioned as a key concept.
The role of a Chief Strategy Officer in aligning long-term plans with short-term execution and capital allocation is highlighted.
CEO responsibilities include stakeholder management and crisis resolution.
✦
Importance of storytelling for a CEO to inspire belief and vision in the company.
21:53Steve Jobs and Alex Ferguson are examples of CEOs who excelled at storytelling to drive success.
CEO's role in connecting dots, managing teams, and driving success through a strong vision is crucial.
Decision-making, simplification, and focusing on key choices maximize brain power and efficiency.
Recommendations of top books for aspiring or current CEOs, such as Ray Dalio's principles.
✦
Importance of eliminating trivial decisions and focusing on what truly matters in life and business.
25:34Emphasis on automating non-essential tasks and delegating responsibilities to increase efficiency.
Drawing parallels between chess and life to highlight the importance of strategic resource management and taking calculated risks.
Value of reading and consuming information in different formats based on personal preferences and learning styles.
✦
The Evolving Role of the Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
34:20CFOs are responsible for operational finance, compliance, audits, risk management, and legal obligations within a company.
They serve as a key defense against fraud and risk, while also focusing on financial strategy and accountability.
Technological advancements have transformed the CFO role from basic accounting tasks to more strategic and high-value responsibilities.
CFOs play a critical role in upholding financial integrity, preventing accounting fraud, and are considered a trusted and essential part of a company's leadership team.
✦
The role of a Chief Operating Officer (COO) is crucial in managing day-to-day operations and serving as a link between the CEO and operational tasks.
42:47CFOs are often well-suited to transition into CEO roles due to their deep understanding of business operations and their ability to ask pertinent questions.
Startups initially prioritize flexibility and agility, but as they expand, they must incorporate processes and systems from larger organizations.
Innovation frequently emerges in the gray areas between legal and illegal practices, requiring businesses to navigate regulations while remaining agile.
Finding the right balance between regulation, procedures, and agility is essential for achieving success in business.
✦
Importance of Passion and Pragmatism in Entrepreneurship
55:06Balancing personal interests with market trends is crucial for starting a successful business.
Timing and strategic decision-making based on market conditions are key factors in entrepreneurial success.
Investors play a crucial role in backing businesses and prioritizing market potential over founder loyalty.
Success in entrepreneurship requires aligning passion with practicality and navigating the complexity of decision-making.
✦
Peter Thiel's investment philosophy focuses on backing founders who challenge the status quo and take risks.
01:01:05Thiel supports early-stage concepts and values contrarian thinking, encouraging unconventional education and unique ideas.
He believes in identifying trends and is willing to invest in unfamiliar businesses if he understands the person behind the idea.
Thiel's approach contrasts with Warren Buffet's conservative strategy of long-term investments in established companies like Coca-Cola.
Thiel emphasizes disruptive innovation, unconventional thinking, and trusting one's gut instincts, especially for young entrepreneurs.
✦
Problem-solving methods: Socratic method and Edward de Bono's six hats approach.
01:09:30The Socratic method involves asking questions to uncover root causes, leading to tools like issue trees and root cause analysis.
De Bono's approach uses different colored hats to represent various perspectives, such as white for facts, green for opportunities, black for challenges, red for emotions, and blue and yellow for other aspects.
The importance of logic in problem-solving is emphasized alongside the need for creative thinking and analytical skills.
✦
Problem-solving approaches discussed in the segment include possibility thinking, focusing on emotions, facts, and simulations.
01:19:49Creating a culture where everyone can challenge ideas and participate in problem-solving is emphasized.
Openness, curiosity, and willingness to accept uncertainty are deemed crucial for effective problem-solving.
Biases can impact problem-solving, and time pressure plays a significant role in cracking tough nuts.
Continuous learning and adaptability are highlighted as valuable in problem-solving processes.
✦
Biases in decision-making and problem-solving are discussed, focusing on loss aversion bias and selective hearing.
01:24:01It is important to be aware of biases, especially for successful individuals who may become complacent.
Hiring practices should prioritize diverse perspectives to drive innovation.
McKinsey alumni have found success in various industries due to problem-solving skills and stakeholder management learned at the firm.
The segment explores biases, innovation, and the value of diverse experiences in leadership.
✦
Importance of problem-solving, communication, stakeholder management, and influencing skills in any location.
01:28:18McKinsey instills confidence to apply these skills universally, enabling work in any country or context.
Flipkart's localized approach to e-commerce is discussed in the segment.
Impact of McKinsey alumni globally, showcasing their success and leadership roles.
Changing landscape of entrepreneurship, with an increasing acceptance of risk-taking and the importance of mentors, investors, and skill development in supporting founders' success.
✦
Key resources and support available for founders include grooming and accelerator programs, consolidated back offices, and access to educational opportunities like podcasts and online courses.
01:35:14Communication clarity, problem-solving skills, and self-care through proper pacing are important lessons learned from experiences at McKinsey.
Managing bodily functions and avoiding burnout are emphasized for long-term success in any role or industry.
Balancing work and rest is crucial for avoiding burnout and achieving success in the long term.
✦
Role of Consulting Firms in Business Expansion
01:42:22Consulting firms historically provided Geographic and Talent Arbitrage, but now focus on Information Arbitrage and execution.
Consultants save time and resources by offering specialized expertise and independent perspectives.
Hiring consultants should be based on genuine needs, not just for rubber stamping decisions or avoiding tough choices.
Consultants can play a crucial role in critical junctures and ensuring unbiased decision-making.
✦
The importance of ambition, hard work, and resilience in achieving success.
01:53:50J.K. Rowling's story of facing rejection 29 times before creating the Harry Potter franchise as an example of determination.
Emphasis on the founder's mindset and determination being crucial for scaling a business.
Success is compared to the necessity of air, highlighting the level of desire required.
The core message is the need to want success passionately and be willing to overcome obstacles and rejection to achieve it.
✦
Critical issues in agriculture and the importance of sustainable practices.
01:57:47Food mismanagement, farmer challenges, and climate change are key concerns in agriculture.
Agriculture plays a vital role in feeding the growing population and addressing greenhouse gas emissions.
Sustainable farming practices, carbon sequestration, and financial support for farmers are essential.
Individuals can contribute by reducing food waste and recognizing the efforts of farmers.
00:00strategy officer has to make sure that
00:02the long-term plans of the company and
00:05the short-term execution are aligned
00:07okay that is the only thing you have to
00:09make sure and second very critical thing
00:12is capital allocation Capital
00:17very important because everybody will
00:20want more and more money yeah everybody
00:22will have a favorite initiative which
00:24will become the next billion dollar
00:25thing yeah and uh because
00:31capital is always going to be finite
00:32yeah yeah so how do you prioritize
00:36today is one of the most special
00:38episodes of figuring out because I get
00:40to speak to one of the first Angel
00:42Investors of my new startup he invested
00:45in me and why did he invest in me is
00:47something which you're gonna get to know
00:48by the end of this episode because I've
00:50asked him exact questions about what
00:54does he look for in a startup founder
00:56before he invests he was one of the
00:59senior most Partners at McKenzie India
01:01and he's right now the chief strategy
01:04officer at UPL toshan is one of the
01:07finest brains I've ever hosted on
01:10figuring out we spoke about kick
01:12startups
01:15startups
01:17[Music]
01:31we've spoken about so many any of these
01:34things from the lens of somebody who has
01:37worked on multiple startups but not only
01:39from the lens of the business we've also
01:42spoken about every business analogy in
01:45regards to sports sports
01:52you need to watch this episode till the
01:54end because this is one of the genuine
01:57hidden gems of India you must have not
02:00heard about him but I promise you once
02:04you hear him you'll never stop speaking
02:07about him so make sure that you watch
02:10this episode till the end and please let
02:12me know in the comments during the
02:14podcast itself that what are the points
02:16which stands out for you
02:28so
02:30the most successful
02:34you know Sports person in Olympics
02:38take a guess one people say Michael
02:40Phelps yeah
02:41Michael Phelps has 28 medals yeah like
02:45he has more medals than most countries
02:47yeah together and so on but Michael
02:50Phelps won most of those medals you know
02:53two Olympics okay so very short span of
02:56like you know eight years Usain Bolt one
02:58in three Olympics yeah so all his uh uh
03:01triple that he used to win
03:03but there is somebody who's won in five
03:05Olympics
03:06five five five
03:08Olympics so he started Year One
03:11then
03:14okay so the kind of
03:17effort consistency discipline that
03:19require a different level that's her
03:20Steven Redgrave he's a British rower
03:23okay most successful depending on how
03:26you measure success of an Olympian this
03:28guy is like at a different level now
03:30he said with the third time when he won
03:33the for the British team he and there
03:35was another record Matthew pin sent okay
03:37with steam Redgrave both of those were
03:40they were being Partners so Matthew was
03:41not there for the fifth Olympic but
03:44Steve went on to also do that
03:46they were discussing
03:48you know we won three times they were
03:52still pushing very hard and others
03:54around them were saying here
04:01why are you saying let's look at you
04:03know how the rowing technique will be
04:05your boss is
04:17we would not even have been fifth
04:21in the third Olympics that he won so the
04:23levels are going up so he said what I
04:25want to do for the fourth Olympic is
04:27let's assume Murphy's Law
04:30strikes at its worst
04:33everybody write down what can go wrong
04:38people wrote things like because there
04:40were four of them in that event at
04:41coxswain or whatever that event is
04:43called so all four of them wrote things
04:45like my mother dies one day before the
04:48Olympics
04:49hmm
04:50Alec
04:52okay because if you're such a close
04:54death is happening then uh mentally you
04:57won't believe
04:59and somebody said food poisoning last
05:03night
05:04there were like several excuses they ran
05:06into like 20 pages
05:08now what we will do is you'll say this
05:11is Murphy's Law it's best
05:13possible moment pay
05:16your girlfriend is going to tell you
05:18honey it's over yeah something is going
05:21to go wrong
05:22let's simulate everything
05:24and they literally step by step they
05:27said tomorrow is the event
05:29your win told your mother is dead he
05:31made a funeral happen in a sense and but
05:34every it was everything else was real
05:36except there was no that person but the
05:38emotion thing with that emotion that
05:41your mother is dead your breakup has
05:42happened how do you perform and he was
05:45they tried to measure the impact of
05:47everything that goes wrong vomiting
05:53that's the only way and they won the
05:55fourth time and the fifth time
05:58so Murphy's Law is is going to happen
06:01every time they have but this is
06:04this is Extreme level of uh Championship
06:09behavior in a person so I think why
06:12would you not uh
06:15then don't let's not make half measures
06:18around uh
06:19uh something went wrong and the Chinese
06:22did this and that another then don't be
06:25a victim he's like we have to be a
06:26winner mindset and it's Steve liker's
06:29point was I have won three Olympics I
06:32can retire I can do motivational
06:33speaking I can write a book I can do
06:35whatever I can do whatever but fourth
06:37Olympics
06:42because that is the most important thing
06:45for me thing for me now but for five
06:48views I mean they said 20 years the guy
06:50was a champion 24.
06:58he was um
07:01at the top of the game
07:04in incredible okay how did you get to
07:06know about the story I'm just curious
07:08I just like to read sports okay
07:11biographies I actually feel that you
07:13know some of the best Role Models come
07:15from sports sports who's your role model
07:21there were many just give me one like
07:24random
07:25I think
07:26more motherly and Lance Armstrong okay
07:29what what's one story about Muhammad Ali
07:32which you feel like
07:34it may it makes him your role model
07:35there has to be something about it
07:38so when he decided that he will not go
07:41to
07:42the Vietnam War okay because everybody
07:45was being drafted and it was a national
07:48cause
07:49but he said look I don't feel like it
07:52because I don't believe that they are
07:54the enemy just a complete outro against
07:56him in those days it was not like he was
07:59trying to be a contrarian and said
08:04he didn't need that face yeah to do it
08:07and it was not as if and they told him
08:12and you have to go in the Battlefield
08:14Vietnam
08:20and so you want to be completely safe
08:22yeah just you have to follow the rules
08:25no I will make my rule
08:28and they stripped him off the boxing
08:30title and he took him like eight years
08:32after he was like reinstated back to and
08:35he started at the bottom again
08:40start at the bottom Challenger
08:42Challenger Challenger again get it back
08:44resilience and this establishment was
08:47completely against him because they
08:48wanted him to fail
08:50is
08:56till a point in time was the most
08:58successful cyclist okay even Tour de
09:00France like I think seven times
09:02consecutively which is like the toughest
09:04cycling race to win in the world
09:06but they were always doping allegations
09:08against him doping okay and cycling was
09:12completely hit by doping for a long time
09:14and Lance Armstrong being the number one
09:16everybody used to say
09:21timings okay
09:27and he admitted it after several years
09:29so he was stripped of everything
09:32all Fame is gone everything is gone but
09:36he wrote a book before he was still uh
09:39he said every second counts
09:42and he wrote a part two which says it's
09:43not about the bike okay same like what I
09:47mentioned about ready grave now
09:49if you have to win a Tour de France the
09:52small small things that you have to take
09:54care of a massage
09:58people try to optimize the weight of a
10:01bike with a bike
10:04trousers
10:06because every additional thing is a
10:09existing yeah so are using the attention
10:12to detail that he had
10:14his organization even sometimes the
10:16Goofer happens not because the senior
10:18guys are
10:19the senior leaders are always on top of
10:21things
10:26and everything falls yeah I've seen
10:29organizations
10:32that has been the cause litigation may
10:35use and so on so the weakest link will
10:37sing the
10:38shipling
10:40the attention no it makes sense in fact
10:43like when I was I think I I took my
10:47first business conference or something
10:49like that where I wanted to learn about
10:51business uh I think I was 17 something
10:54like that okay the manic FedEx Key story
10:56would put sunidhi and since then that
10:58story stuck with me so FedEx Cup they
11:02promised that we're gonna do one day
11:04delivery or something like that around
11:06the world everything right and they're
11:07like joined like giant Factory which
11:10three four can wear belts here and there
11:13everything is everything with
11:14interlinked like there was no human
11:16intervention at all wow the completely
11:18big John okay and automatically the the
11:23conveyor belt one conveyor belt stops
11:25wow but because one stops the first
11:27thing cannot go to second second cannot
11:29go to third the whole operation stops
11:31everybody is going they call the top
11:33Engineers sorry whatever Engineers
11:37they called outside
11:41like there was entire Factory standing
11:44the warehouse standings or it went on
11:47like eight to twelve hours
11:50so everybody was just like maddening the
11:53top senior levels
11:57we have made such big promises I know
12:00stamina campaign was at Peak
12:04s
12:12very seriously like India you can still
12:15you know turn around few things and be
12:18like America
12:22so everybody was like here and there
12:25Haywire so one guy like the factory
12:27labor he said yeah I know mechanic
12:29nearby he was there when the factor is
12:32getting built yeah okay why don't we
12:34call him everybody started laughing
12:36about engineers
12:37but the manager was Furious managers
12:40like whoever you want to call call try
12:42Absa he comes
12:45he comes he sits around he checks just
12:48AG around for 10 minutes
12:50and he tightens one screw and then
12:53remove another screw that's it there was
12:56this one screw okay and the Machine
12:58starts working
13:00everybody started like like you know
13:02everybody started again celebrating this
13:05and that people thanked him the next day
13:08the guy sent him the bill
13:10the guy sent in the bill was one
13:12thousand dollars so the manager got
13:14Furious and be like dollars
13:24and that like detailing attention and it
13:27was just crazy that it you can you can
13:31have like a biggest of the biggest team
13:32but one job but listen uh
13:41and because of that and I was like
13:44and because an automated system
13:49this was also there was a uh you know
13:52this Japanese this is the 80s when a lot
13:55of American Industries were being hit by
13:58Japan and automotive and so on so the
14:01Japanese thing was Six Sigma
14:03Six Sigma which is six parts in a
14:06million can be defective and so
14:08Americans signed a contract with the
14:10Japanese saying Six Sigma Japanese
14:16nine hundred thousand whatever uh no
14:19five million uh X5 whatever
14:22um
14:35so which is six parts we thought you
14:38wanted those defective parts so none of
14:40these other parts are defective only the
14:42six parts are defective so Americans are
14:44like oh Americans
14:47said no when we give our parts there is
14:51no defect in those defective parts are
14:53these we thought you wanted so we said
14:55okay no parts the same attention to
14:57detail and that's what Japanese
14:59engineering uh Toyotas and so on and
15:02there's there's a lot of Japanese
15:03engineering things that's it I'm just
15:05thinking about all these stories before
15:06we actually get down to the Crux of I
15:08want to pick up your brain
15:10I wanted to ask her I think okay now you
15:13what is your role you're talking about
15:15so I look at
15:17um corporate Venture Investments digital
15:19new businesses carbon sustainability
15:22okay
15:26okay and what technically a strategy
15:29officer has to do so again in one two
15:32lines if you have to tell me how about
15:34the strategy officer has to make sure
15:35that the long-term plans of the company
15:38and the short-term execution are aligned
15:41okay that is the only thing you have to
15:43make sure and second query critical
15:46thing is capital allocation capital
15:48capital
15:51very important because everybody will
15:54want more and more money everybody will
15:56have a favorite initiative which will
15:58become the next billion dollar thing
15:59yeah and uh
16:02because
16:04capital is always going to be finite
16:06yeah so how do you prioritize
16:11very interesting
16:13in fact let's do you wanna do you mind
16:16like if I go if I go really dumb and
16:18like want to understand like the Layman
16:20things about it so I want to understand
16:22the roles of the senior Physicians now
16:24because when you talked about strategy
16:26right so let's just talk about one by
16:27one role by road because I want to
16:29understand so first strategies done by
16:32CSO that's the position Chief strategy
16:35okay the CEO
16:37like I'll talk about everything okay you
16:39tell me about every position so I think
16:41see you again see I feel and this is my
16:45CEO is the first and last Port of Call
16:49okay first and last board so he is the
16:51face of the organization externally
16:53buck stops with the CEO okay okay and
16:56especially in two days a day and age
16:58CEOs biggest role is also stakeholder
17:01management because CEO has to deal with
17:03regulators
17:04Capital markets employees investors
17:08competitors suppliers media
17:12and everybody can say yeah their
17:16decision somebody else should do it CEO
17:19does not have that leeway he cannot say
17:22he's like passing the parcel games
17:26so CEO has to be the first so to me CEO
17:30is also the chief crisis officer because
17:32everybody and CEO will have the best
17:34uh what should I say
17:36support but end of the day my decision
17:41it's like the general in the Army right
17:44you can listen people will inform you
17:46the missile will be ready but but
17:54chief executive officer okay CEO now
17:58follow up to that what do you think is
18:01the most important skill for a CEO to
18:04learn
18:07I think to me the most if I have to take
18:10one
18:12I think it will be storytelling
18:16people have to believe in him
18:20because you're following right
18:21organizations are going to develop over
18:23time Rome was not built in a day neither
18:25will a company
18:29vision and most of the times
18:34yeah so how do you get people to believe
18:37in you
18:45and especially if you say I cannot pay
18:48you the most but I should believe in you
18:50culture responsibility CEO
18:53responsibility
18:54so how does he tell the story because
18:57and I always say this CEOs whisper
19:00becomes a scream
19:03I am worried
19:05foreign
19:10so even if the CEO is worried he can't
19:13be stressed
19:15interesting very interesting because
19:17this is something I told him yesterday
19:19about he's like he what is gonna be your
19:23role in your startup okay he's he was
19:25asking me because I was telling her how
19:27I'm assembling like the best team in the
19:29world and in my head I'm like Avengers
19:31assembled like that kind of thing I'm
19:33trying to build I'm trying to best team
19:35in the world right and he's asking
19:36what's going to be your role I was like
19:37in Idols
19:41I like the startup right start but in an
19:44ideal situation
19:45my job would be CSO and CVO and what do
19:49I mean by that Chief supporting officer
19:51yeah and I'll just be there absolutely
19:53boss you are the Ops guy you're handling
19:56it but if you have a problem I'm there
19:57to support you how will I be able to do
19:59that I don't know but I'll help you
20:00right I'll figure out CVS Chief
20:03Visionary officer brilliant it's like
20:05I'll be the one I'll be like boss I'm a
20:08dreamer we have the vision let's go
20:10achieve it because if I won't
20:12communicate that Vision in the company
20:14nobody will be excited to work and like
20:16go get that Vision because everybody's
20:19jacket and working trying to solve their
20:20own problems I am the only one who has
20:23to look outside the problem and be like
20:24this is the moonshot which you want to
20:26make think about it no this was said
20:28Steve Jobs okay what was Steve Job the
20:32best coder no no he was not the best
20:34coder was he the best designer Johnny
20:36Ivey was the best designer yeah was he
20:39the best supply chain finance and I know
20:40he was not but whose Vision was it Steve
20:43Jobs Steve Jobs kept saying wait why was
20:46the iPad built
20:48you know iPad cube first original use
20:51case of an iPad was not anybody telling
20:54Steve Jobs
20:55Steve Joseph sitting is in his toilet
20:57and he had newspapers so newspaper that
21:00toilet if you're like if I can have a
21:03device
21:04which I can use in the toilet to read
21:06and get efficient and get ready
21:08that will be on it but that was his
21:10dream
21:12and then making sure everybody believes
21:14in it because you will always have
21:15naysayers yeah there are more critics
21:18than supporters generally if you are
21:20successful there will be more critics
21:21always and as somebody said you are
21:24measured by the size of your problems so
21:25Steve Jobs was fired was almost bankrupt
21:29and all of those things but he he led
21:31him because of his vision now usme bhi
21:34there is another thing like
21:36again my favorite analogy Sports the
21:38most successful football manager
21:40statistics aside is Alex Ferguson yeah
21:43Manchester United Okay 13 times and
21:46European leagues and all was he the best
21:48football player or Scottish Rangers they
21:50were not a best football player but why
21:53he was the CEO of Manchester United he
21:56knew which players to pick whom to bet
21:58on how to build a Next Generation Team
22:00how to manage the owners of Manchester
22:02United how to make sure fans come how to
22:05think about merchandising how to
22:07monetize Manu as a franchise he's
22:09thinking of all of that he's connecting
22:10on field and off field who's playing now
22:13of course he needs an Eric Cantona he
22:16needs the Paul Ryan gigs and Paul
22:18scholes of the world to be playing for
22:20him but he has to be tough yeah when
22:23they were almost at the last
22:26none of the players even believed
22:40players were like shocked so his vision
22:43was jaw-dropping I mean as you rightly
22:45said Chief Visionary because often times
22:48all of the dots that are happening the
22:51CEO is in the best position because the
22:52CEO is meeting people outside he's going
22:55and seeing somebody he's connecting the
22:57dots everybody else is siled
23:00where does it all come together yeah
23:04very very fascinating I'm getting it's
23:07it's going at a good phase I'm liking
23:08how we just started it feels like this
23:11is a common question or a common
23:13conversation which most of the people
23:14have but they don't have Clarity around
23:15it and we're just uncovering that and I
23:18want to go deeper on this okay so
23:19quickly tell me what are the what do you
23:22think are the top three books as I see
23:24like somebody who aspire to become CEO
23:25or is a CEO should read as for you
23:28complete perspective
23:30raid Alias principles okay the
23:32phenomenal book because he really was
23:35one of the most successful hedge fund
23:37managers in the world more importantly
23:39Ray dalio writes what makes him
23:42successful and what he's failed very few
23:45people write about them when they are
23:47still doing it because you're very
23:48worried your retirement you can always
23:50look back and say I was so successful
23:52because I did the 40 things he's still
23:53there and he's still writing what makes
23:55me uh successful I think raid alios
23:57principles is one
24:00um you know Ray values is one thing
24:01which I heard it in a podcast is like
24:05I've completely eliminated the choice of
24:08food in from my life have you heard that
24:10no I haven't he's like I eat the same
24:12breakfast forever
24:13and I've been eating that since forever
24:15but you know this is called a paradox of
24:17choice
24:18and if you see like Einstein
24:21wore the same suit every day he had like
24:2420 same suits
24:30because I think there is a whole thing
24:32of saying your brain power
24:35that you can actively use now effort is
24:38limited yeah okay don't waste it on
24:40stupid choices
24:42and I'm like oh should I eat this should
24:45I have carbs no just simplify Tim Cook
24:47does that same thing I know we go back
24:48to Apple
24:50or whatever that salad and uh grilled
24:53chicken uh thing
24:55just only does that is there is no don't
24:58complicate life yeah exactly like so
25:01this way is again this is done by again
25:04one of the billionaires I think Elon
25:05Musk said it that key every human being
25:08has the ability to take decisions daily
25:20you can only focus on the decisions
25:23which are really important so stop
25:25worrying about what you're wearing the
25:28in the office what you're eating how
25:30you're going what what's going to be
25:32like just eliminate little things which
25:34you can right and his point was not on
25:37like not eliminate everywhere in life
25:39eliminate when it's not important if you
25:42want to go to a party and you want to go
25:44with someone go dress up think about
25:46where you're gonna date and because
25:47that's in that moment that's an
25:49important decision yeah right but if
25:51you're just going to office and your
25:52most important thing is to talk to your
25:54investors who cares whether you're
25:56wearing black or white or gray yeah and
25:58I think there was a whole thing of
25:59eliminate if not automate most of us
26:03always also say here yeah
26:08you can always go back and check it but
26:10there is always like eliminate what you
26:12can rest at least automatically so that
26:14whatever you're spending time on is by
26:17far most critical yeah
26:19uh issues that you are focusing I know I
26:22know
26:23which says that if you
26:27if you're not actively using your
26:30creativity to take decisions then
26:32eliminate delegate or automate yeah
26:36absolutely
26:37it's a cool like a tell me second book
26:39the first book was Ray value Sprints uh
26:42principles I think second one
26:44sort of philosophical is uh Marcus
26:46aurelius's uh meditations I was just
26:49gonna say this okay really yeah it was
26:51phenomenal I mean
26:53the that time's most powerful person
26:56emperor of Rome is writing about so many
27:00things which I think are relevant to a
27:01CEO because as an emperor he had a
27:05certain
27:06you know Public Image Persona a lot of
27:09decisions and he was writing it down but
27:10he was also writing down as a father
27:13as a husband
27:14and CEOs have a role to play they are
27:18the Chief Executive Officer of a company
27:19but they are also they have other
27:21relationships other things which are
27:23important to them and Marcus Aurelius I
27:25think did a great balance between uh
27:28between these two things
27:30and third would be life imitates chess
27:33by Gary Kasparov okay where actually
27:37Casper because he was first a grand
27:40master and then he got into like he
27:42would have almost become the Russian
27:44president and he took on Vladimir Putin
27:47oh oh yeah yeah he was standing as an
27:49independent and trying to Galvanize but
27:51again very difficult to uh you know take
27:54on uh put in in I mean the world hasn't
27:57been able to do that but what he says is
28:00he says look as a CEO or he's in life
28:03all of us have resources okay it could
28:06be money it could be our talent
28:07capabilities and chess is also about how
28:09do you Marshal resources
28:11okay and at the start of the game you
28:14may be whoever you are you may be Gary
28:16Kasper or Magnus Carlsen but you also
28:18have the same number of pieces I also
28:20have the same number of pieces yeah you
28:22are also going to your pieces will also
28:24follow the same rule so it's like in
28:26life you are also going to have 24 hours
28:28I am also going to have 24 hours
28:31Maxima is what you can now of course
28:34Gary kaspora then says you know how life
28:36is all about building a positional
28:38advantages
28:39sacrifices it's a very important thing
28:41he says life may be like in chess
28:43sometimes you have to give up something
28:44to gain something to gain some bigger
28:47Advantage like you may have to give a
28:48personal life if you are going for
28:49professional success sometimes you may
28:51have to say I might have to compromise
28:52my
28:53you know something which was important
28:55in the medium term for something which
28:57is near term like you cannot get
28:59everything yeah okay and that's what he
29:01said to Grand masters of Chess and of
29:02Life know what their end game is except
29:05for a Grandmaster to win he doesn't need
29:07between two grand Masters it's a very
29:09equal position always because
29:12everybody knows today's day and age
29:21Sicilian defenses and also in today's
29:24DNA he says as a CEO you know everything
29:27about all the companies around you you
29:28know everything about your consumers you
29:30know everything so data is available
29:31track record is available I know
29:34everything about your investors you know
29:35everything about mine so when we are
29:37competing or in the market information
29:39is not a thing but then how do you start
29:42building small small small advantages
29:43because a Grand Master One Pawn
29:45Advantage is enough for a win because
29:47you will exchange all pieces your king
29:49miking I have one Pawn left I'm going to
29:51win broadly at a Grand Master Level so
29:53that's what life is and he explains
29:55beautifully how
29:58as a CEO you need to think about risks
30:01that you take risk in business you take
30:03risks on people
30:04he explains very importantly the biggest
30:06CEO stake is not in business they know
30:08their business very well you take a risk
30:10on people every single day
30:13will he fit in with my existing team
30:15yeah but I'm hiring because he's spiky
30:18or special hey that's why I'm hiding him
30:20sometimes it's I'm hiring him because
30:21he's different and then I'm wondering
30:23whether what will the rest of my team
30:25say about the different
30:26so how will the integration work so the
30:30biggest risk see your stake is on people
30:31and that's what you're saying how was it
30:33from the principles of Chess to the
30:35principles of business and life so
30:37that's probably my third book for it's
30:39very interesting what's again what's the
30:41full name of the book life imitates
30:42chess
30:44I'm I'm intrigued to read it honestly
30:47and I I'm not like a big reader like I
30:52I've read like I think I think 200 books
30:54still know or something like that but
30:56um I don't like reading I force myself
30:59to read for a problem which I'm going
31:00through in life because I feel problems
31:02get solved through books no problem I
31:04mean this um
31:07the Harry Potter lady JK Rowling says if
31:11you think you don't like reading you
31:13just haven't got the right books huh I
31:15know but
31:16it's just I felt the same thing
31:19my point is it's not like that I don't
31:21like reading I love watching more that's
31:24how different yeah right so I feel like
31:26let's say if I want to let's say read
31:27about Steve Jobs I would rather watch
31:29his movie so that's the whole idea if I
31:31have also a podcast yeah yeah audiobooks
31:34so some formats are very different it's
31:36more somebody has spent so much time
31:38doing something
31:40yeah or you have those apps which tell
31:43you the summary of a book summary
31:46I'm not a big fan of somebody's honestly
31:49like I just feel like somebody's a good
31:51it's like trailers
31:53I will go deeper in that book that it's
31:56a good way for that but I don't think
31:58that should be a primary source of
31:59information for XYZ thing what are the
32:01three most
32:03phenomenal books you've read wow that's
32:05a good one one is contagious again okay
32:08so it's about uh you know story and what
32:11sticks around and how the how everything
32:14how people talk about your stuff like
32:16how can you make it contagious
32:17contagious one second is influence which
32:20I really like influence have you read it
32:22no I haven't so it's a it's about
32:24psychology of persuasion that's one of
32:26the best best and the most common thing
32:29I've read in the book the most common
32:31thing but it's so good that if you
32:32understand that so many things like you
32:36know so many things get solved for you
32:37and the thing is
32:39people like people who are like them or
32:43people like people who like them
32:46people like people who are like them or
32:49people like people who are like them no
32:51who like them who like them so yeah who
32:52like if I like you you'll you'll
32:54probably like me or if we both are
32:56similar then also you're like me wow
32:59it's so very powerful it's so simple but
33:03it just gives you everything to build
33:04relationships with people with strangers
33:07instantly so that's a second influence
33:08what's the third so first is contagious
33:10second is influence third it's a tough
33:14one let me they do three and four yeah
33:17like no I'm thinking of two three so
33:20I really like the almanac by Naval
33:23ravikant okay it's a very simple one but
33:25I like it I like it so it's like I don't
33:29want to go like I can give you one more
33:32but I wanted to specifically give this
33:34one because this is like the basic which
33:36people can read it's a feel-good book it
33:38just goes on life
33:40and that one I've read I haven't read
33:43the other two no you should I will have
33:44it you hate your sound influence if you
33:46if you believe storytelling is something
33:48which you like absolutely so first two
33:50books are really good okay the other the
33:53I was gonna say 48 Laws of Power but
33:55also good it sounds so good again but I
33:57think it has a channel Machiavellian
34:00feel too
34:01especially the examples are um very much
34:05like devious manipulators so it has some
34:07connotation you have to like be able to
34:09do that yeah okay let's go to the second
34:11position CEO we talked about what's the
34:14role of a CFO when when you said that CA
34:17Soca Capital allocation rule is a CFO
34:19okay
34:20setting
34:21CFO the financial officer Chief
34:24Financial Officer I think there are two
34:26three things first is there is
34:27operational Finance
34:32Finance system
34:33the first Riot will happen because if
34:36salary gets delayed the CF was to make
34:38sure nothing goes wrong vendor payments
34:40suppliers and the operational Finance I
34:44think the second one is really there is
34:45a compliance role for CFO audits
34:49uh you know frauds risk management
34:52legal because most of the time legal
34:54also gets into the CFOs department and
34:57Regulatory there is so much that a CFO
34:59has to do because
35:01the larger the company the more the
35:04amount of entities and laws that you
35:06have the CFO really is like the first I
35:09mean you will you some companies may
35:10have a chief risk officer who may also
35:12report to the CFO but CFO really has to
35:14understand all the laws regulations see
35:17the line of defense first is operational
35:19he's almost like a line of defense
35:20against fraud air comp risk investor
35:23Capital markets
35:27and I think the third one and which
35:29again
35:30sometimes blurs between Chief strategy
35:32officer and CFO is things like mnday
35:34Capital again some people put it under
35:36CFO some people say no that is a lot
35:39more for lack of a pan unintended a lot
35:41more strategic okay and CFO may not have
35:43the bandwidth because there are a lot of
35:45operational things
35:47treasury daily you are going to be
35:50borrowing lending money you have to do
35:51hedging activities and larger the
35:53company each one of these activities are
35:55like billions of dollars so you cannot
35:57afford and by the time you get to
35:59quarter end numbers close
36:01Provisions to think about year end if
36:04you're a listed entity then you will
36:05have hundreds of uh conferences investor
36:08Road shows and uh MLS and also CFO is a
36:12very very tough I actually empathize
36:14with CFOs a lot because you have
36:17operational issues and you have very
36:19strategic issues yeah yeah this is so
36:21true uh I was just having a conversation
36:23or co-founder and uh
36:27so he's like
36:30real meaning with the chief firefighting
36:33officer firefighting positions
36:38and if you look at you know historically
36:40how did a CFO role evolve you should
36:42just take your see it was earlier meant
36:44to be like sorry
36:47foreign
37:19audit and then you said no this guy is
37:22actually responsible for a lot more
37:24higher value stuff also because over
37:26time software has took over now
37:28everybody has like Oracle or tally and
37:31so on so yeah basic stuff is not done by
37:34the cf4 by a person machines have taken
37:36that over yeah you may sometimes need
37:38like reconciliations
37:40then you said no no maths and English
37:43needs to marry I mean CFO is a person
37:45yeah maths or English Mario say foreign
38:04this is what we are reporting this is
38:06what we are signing off on you may think
38:09you are doing a great job but it is not
38:10reflecting in the numbers often times
38:12hundreds of times we have a pilot
38:15project launched successfully
38:26and CFO is actually the custodian who's
38:28saying guys is money being well spent
38:31which I have money
38:42how we're able to prove it and you see
38:44this you see our name entities but
38:47accounting fraud is we can talk about
38:50the past satyam yeah a company which was
38:53flying high destroyed in one day Enron
39:02so that's why you know CFO is also very
39:04trusted role yeah because you that's why
39:07the whole bar on you know whenever a CFO
39:09is fired or say CFO changes
39:14so it's a very very trust responsibility
39:18for your positions and fire fighting
39:20crisis so it's a it's a that's why the
39:23chartered accountancy Institute you
39:24insist on Keys
39:27you should be knowing the basics of
39:29accounting law taxation
39:36is it happening right or not is is
39:38everything okay
39:41um
39:42you know this thinking of the I thought
39:45just uh
39:47finding someone like that and then
39:49trusting is good is so difficult right
39:51it's very difficult and that's why some
39:53of the most successful companies are
39:55always built when you have a CEO and CFO
39:58whom they trust and you will see that
40:00large companies when they grow the CEO
40:02and CFO will have grown together because
40:05the CEO is the growth and vision it was
40:13you know get into that was CEO will have
40:16no time what numbers CFOs person wants
40:19to go through every line of that
40:20contract and say bosses
40:27he is painting the next bold growth
40:29stories painting the next bet CFO is his
40:32counterfei very important role perfect
40:35so now we covered CEO we covered CFO was
40:39the CEO role what the Ops guys because
40:42I've heard that every time you talk to a
40:45spoken to like at least five seven
40:47uh Chief Operating officers in the
40:49country because I was finalizing the
40:51position for my company right all the
40:54Ops guys had that find someone who can
40:56replace you
40:58yeah and why do they say that the COO in
41:01many ways now is the second in command
41:03Chandra livo because CEO has to is one
41:07level about us both external CEO key
41:09thing is his role is very much General
41:12Internal operations day to day
41:16you can the title can be Chief growth
41:19officers Chief Operating Officer Chief
41:21Revenue officer Chief business officer
41:22titles
41:24I think it is the joke uh but CEO is the
41:28guy who's making sure
41:31conceptualize
41:35Beyond a certain level CEOs don't do
41:37that CEOs what they do is it typically
41:39will pick on something which is either
41:41exciting or difficult yeah okay because
41:44difficult
41:47exciting is
41:52we have launched the businesses
41:58foreign
42:06everything is going fine customers are
42:08happy product is manufactured quality
42:10defection so he's making sure that it's
42:13happening there and at some stage
42:14because he understands the business
42:17in case the CEO wants to step out they
42:20go to Chairman the role because
42:21everybody has some other stuff the CEO
42:24May step in into that role may I mean
42:27not all organizations have CEOs
42:28sometimes because you may have a
42:31head of sales and you may have heard of
42:34manufacturing now sales and
42:35Manufacturing may never report together
42:36with a very different kind of things
42:38they merge only at CEO level sometimes
42:40you say
42:41operations has sales operations are
42:43sourcing Logistics everything in which
42:45case the CEO role becomes critical
42:47essentially it's a Spam breaker between
42:50CEO and separates out mundane stuff
42:53which is no longer in Pilot innovation
43:00make sure it works Clockwork Orange
43:02that's the CEOs CEOs
43:04okay so is there I missed the book on
43:07the finance as well what's the best book
43:09of the finance and the best book of
43:10operations if you can think of any ah
43:14I cannot uh you finance and Ops Galaxy
43:17Ops a lot of the books I read are
43:20typically around you know this is
43:23the professor who created this theory of
43:26constraints okay you know Factory and so
43:29on so in Ops that's considered to be
43:31like the
43:33Bible
43:34theory of constraints books but I don't
43:36I cannot think of like a CEO equivalent
43:39thing the only thing I would say for a c
43:41or CFO is eventually they either retire
43:44or they have to become CEO
43:46um
43:47so how does a CFO really develop that
43:50skill set and it happens I mean just now
43:53if you see lakshman narasimhan who's the
43:57who's begun the CEO of startups yeah
43:59lakshman is a very good friend and he
44:02was the CFO at Pepsi before so he was a
44:05regional CFO of one of Pepsi's
44:07businesses then Global CFO then become
44:09CEO at record and then see you at
44:11Starbucks so
44:12that is one trajectory that you often
44:14take is CFO external attire he
44:16understands enough about the business he
44:18can ask the right questions he knows how
44:20to handle the board members how to
44:21handle investors does the CFO know
44:24enough about operations
44:30[Music]
44:32does he have the passion for numbers
44:33will he be very comfortable or does he
44:36really need to you know can numbers are
44:39very difficult Accounting Standards
44:41cross-border stuff mnday see
44:47but that's the essential uh
44:50difference between but I couldn't tell
44:53one book for for those number theory of
44:56constraints if people want to read and
44:57go yeah the state of conscience is a
44:59it's a very good one it's a very good
45:01one and there are like a series of books
45:03there by the way for any copyright no I
45:06would any person Dilbert is the Bible
45:09Scott Adams wrote a series of books
45:11called Dilbert it's a satire on
45:13corporate life okay okay for whatever
45:16Dilbert says and does is like phenomenon
45:20okay I want to pick this up because you
45:23said cooperate okay and we don't use
45:24this word very often these days it's all
45:26startups right but what is the startups
45:31so when a established entity starts a
45:35new thing it becomes like a incubation
45:37it becomes like a department or it
45:39becomes a new business when somebody who
45:42is fresh
45:43starts up it's a startup there is
45:46nothing no difference
45:48we are hiring people you are doing
45:51business you will raise money so there
45:53is no kind of the same thing is there
45:55like any difference there's no
45:57difference people say I will come to the
45:58difference but uh see
46:00people say we are a startup um
46:10no what has happened no lot of
46:13traditional companies have understood
46:14that startups
46:18funding okay from private investors when
46:21you are a listed entity you have tons of
46:23constraints yeah reporting public money
46:26it's important when you're a private
46:29which leads to speed
46:31a corporate sometimes faces a lot of you
46:34know you need approvals you have a
46:36process startups
46:42so let's do it now that is what and
46:45Steve Jobs also talks about it saying
46:47garage okay or Facebook
46:50the flexibility Facebook had the speed
46:52at which Facebook could move today
46:54Facebook cannot move even like 1 000 of
46:56that speed yeah regulation meta they
46:59will be 400 regulatory will come other
47:02people will come and put a spoke in the
47:03middle their own employees will say
47:06think about it it's size it's just a
47:09matter of size when you scale up no
47:10scale requires processes and systems
47:13which kills the reason why the startup
47:16was fast in the first place which was
47:17flexibility agility so I think startups
47:20in that word need to adopt some of the
47:22systems and processes of the larger
47:24entities because you cannot you cannot
47:27be in multiple countries you cannot have
47:29thousands of employees if you don't put
47:31some basic processes and systems in
47:33place you everything cannot be a new
47:35problem to solve yeah
47:49you cannot to break some of these so
47:52and often and of course uh Travis
47:55kalanick had said this is innovation
47:57happens in the gray area between what is
48:00legal and illegal okay yeah
48:10and sometimes what happens is Regulators
48:12realize
48:15so let's change the law yeah
48:20otherwise taxi unions taxi lobbies
48:24yeah yeah he operated in the gray area
48:27but if all the phenomenal paytm Vijay
48:30shekar Sharma phenomenal again
48:33fundamentally why should a wallet have
48:35existed passage tomorrow
48:48but agility when demon happened
49:05foreign foreign
49:34billionaires okay which talks about the
49:36story of uh the Winklevoss brothers how
49:39Facebook
49:41they became the world's first Bitcoin
49:43billionaires and he talks there about
49:45all of the saying he
49:47should Bitcoin have gone the root of no
49:50idea of sort of not regulated by any
49:53country but moving to start becoming big
49:55regulated in every country comes after
49:57you yeah so better how do you balance
50:00between
50:01regulation systems procedures and
50:03Agility of a startup
50:05very interesting point and now I want to
50:08get deeper in this particular by the way
50:10just quickly Buddha temps mean temporary
50:12people temporary people yeah temporary
50:14because
50:16a part-time contractual hierarchy
50:21that's the ambition of Vijay shekha
50:24Sharma that's the speed he can he could
50:26uh do it afford to do that now he can't
50:29now he has to be used to think
50:34interesting do I ask for approval or do
50:38ask for forgiveness
50:49what is the penalty to be paid so very
50:52important and some regulators and some
50:54people always approach it with the
50:57forgiveness mindset forgiveness
50:59forgiveness
51:03what is right what is wrong depends on
51:05context depends on the individual
51:08say it
51:09I liked it forgiveness approvals this is
51:13this can be true for every startup
51:16operating in every field if you come
51:19with the right context it can just
51:20change the whole thing and Spotify I
51:23mean Napster what's the different
51:24Napster and Spotify the Napster uh
51:28legalities were not there over time you
51:30pushed push pushed you lobbied all the
51:32actors in the music artists and said
51:35record company they are making money off
51:37you why are you not going to do record a
51:40company and it but unfortunately Napster
51:43had to shut down yeah because the first
51:45Innovative
51:50of course it happens and that person is
51:52a martyr but somebody has to be willing
51:54to be that martyr and even in the
51:56startup system people have been uh the
51:59marketers yeah yeah yeah that it has
52:02happened like in in fact if you look at
52:04in a country uh e-com or d2c again
52:07that's so many martials keep talking
52:11about and then it's just gone I don't
52:13even want to name them but it's just we
52:14all know
52:17it just says difference
52:20the heroes of today which we see they
52:23were not the first innovators not at all
52:25and sometimes they they learned from the
52:28first guys or they didn't make the same
52:30mistake and they didn't make the same
52:32mistakes
52:33okay that is there's a lot of I mean
52:35with a lot of stuff there's a lot to do
52:38with timing as well absolutely timing is
52:40everything
52:41timing here sometimes you are just like
52:43at the right most of the times when
52:44you're at the right place at the right
52:45time and you were there when it
52:48took off like Infosys
52:50took off 1991 Infosys was there ready
52:53when India opened up and allowed you
52:56know
52:5845 days Infosys was there when the the
53:02liberalization happened
53:07in fact there's a with the startup
53:10context Peter Thiel says this that don't
53:13chase for a bigger market like don't be
53:15I don't look at the time total
53:18addressable marketing
53:21I care about an industry which is
53:24growing is
53:32because
53:38somebody the reason it's thousand X
53:41because somebody has made a thousand x
53:43correct right absolutely so that's and I
53:46really like that analogy
53:48foreign
54:08[Music]
54:14try to swim against it and say
54:17people may
54:22give me uh give me a quick your note
54:27thank you we will come down to that I
54:30just wanna
54:31for a thread what do you feel starting a
54:34business in a trend is more like should
54:38be the logical thing to do or starting a
54:40business in something which you are
54:41passionate about or fundamentally it
54:43speaks to you is more important
54:45yeah I think this is always a dilemma
54:48saying Tailwind have already
54:52let me know Rising tide will lift All
54:54Ships yeah yeah versus you know I'm the
54:58contrarian
55:00how do you do that it is my simple angle
55:03there is you know
55:05opportunity
55:06is where passion meets pragmatism
55:09okay what do you mean passion
55:13you will never be good at something you
55:16don't like okay so you cannot be forced
55:18to like something because it is a trend
55:20okay
55:20but you're not passionate about it you
55:23are not passionate about Fitness so
55:24Fitness Revolution people will do keto
55:27people will do gym
55:28you are not passionate
55:31authenticity
55:39second is pragmatism okay I I think
55:43Warren Buffet or I think it's Warren
55:45Buffet
55:46markets can remain irrational a lot
55:49longer than how much your wallet will
55:52allow you to sustain
55:54okay so pragmatism
55:58today for example I believe for whatever
56:01reason I'm just making this a point key
56:04uh I don't want to do sustainability
56:08say tobacco I want to now start a
56:11tobacco company okay people are saying
56:13cigarettes
56:15I'm very passionate but I have to be
56:17pragmatic he's saying how am I going to
56:19sell this Vision the best investors are
56:22going to say about sustainability ESG my
56:25employees who may smoke themselves but
56:27they don't want to be promoting lung
56:30cancer and so on people are putting
56:33companies on Blacklist and red list and
56:34also I may believe that tobacco is the
56:37biggest generator of revenues because
56:39alcohol and tobacco vices from a
56:41government standpoint why don't we make
56:42it zero yeah it is it's always us may
56:47the biggest uh thing is you know us made
56:49the number one cause of death is gun
56:51violence
56:59why don't they ban it completely no
57:01because the NRA is a very very powerful
57:03Lobby they have their reasons they have
57:05the Second Amendment everything but
57:08taxes Alcohol Tobacco these are all the
57:11biggest tax generators and revenue China
57:13if you make them zero personal income
57:15tax will go up and how many people have
57:16personal income tax in the first place
57:17so you need the right balance this is
57:19not a easy
57:21um fix so it should coming back to your
57:23point I have to be pragmatic
57:27are there enough of a trend line I don't
57:30want it to be over a crowded space yeah
57:31or recorded race
57:37you are too late to the party yeah okay
57:40you need to know has the party started
57:43is the party in full flow yes
57:51also what happens sometimes is
57:53it your main thing or is this a second
57:56thing that you are doing because if it's
57:57your main no you definitely need you're
58:00putting a lot of eggs into that bus yeah
58:02from an investor standpoint it's a
58:04different team because what investors do
58:05portfolio they will back three things
58:08which are going to be part of that tail
58:10event one or two things which are going
58:12to be completely
58:14contrarian yeah because
58:23foreign
58:50popped up so Warren Buffett says this
58:53Warren Buffet says that key I will never
58:57back the founder I'll back the market
59:00because his his way of saying it he's
59:03like you can change the founder you
59:04cannot change the market
59:06so focus and invest in the companies
59:10which are in the right Market operating
59:11in the right way Founders can be
59:13replaced correct right
59:15and he's made significant wealth of life
59:17and then there's another guy Peter Thiel
59:20Peter Thiel says that I'll back the
59:22founder I don't care because this person
59:25will be the contrarian he will make his
59:28own way and he will serve against the
59:30wave also and he'll find it if he has
59:32the like potential to do it he do it and
59:35they both are significant so both the
59:37ways work thing is but but also remember
59:39that Warren Buffet a thus primarily
59:42listed large cap okay and he stays
59:45invested for 20 years 25 years in Coke
59:48so he he just doesn't budge because he
59:52says markets may go up down
59:54it's going to be throughout and it's
59:56listed yeah Peter doesn't do listed
59:58entities no he's backing very early
01:00:00stage he's backing Concepts he's backing
01:00:03concept and he is willing to wait for
01:00:06the founder to really and he's like
01:00:07earlier the better yeah so it's a very
01:00:09different stage in early business
01:00:13if the founder is right and see again
01:00:15there is a very interesting thing which
01:00:17I have found in my own personal Angel
01:00:19Investing is if somebody has given up a
01:00:21very high paying job awoke
01:00:25unless the guy is crook
01:00:28or he gets every bet of his wrong
01:00:32opportunity cost for that founder
01:00:34personally is very very happy the
01:00:36investor you are only you are not
01:00:37investing like 100 of your net worth two
01:00:41percent credibility
01:00:47he will make something because his
01:00:49opportunity cost his failure
01:00:52he's like
01:00:55I'm going to stay backing this company
01:00:58yeah I will keep changing Founders I
01:01:00have got the market right because that's
01:01:01where he says the markets can remain
01:01:02here so he's backing like Mega Trends
01:01:05Peter till he's not he's like founder
01:01:07will figure out a way broadly if that's
01:01:09why the referencing forensics
01:01:12chemistry I think the founder really
01:01:14will I be able to help the founder will
01:01:16you listen to me yeah all the importance
01:01:21I'm not interfering performance time
01:01:24after time so it's a very different
01:01:26philosophy because they are very diff
01:01:28they invest into very different asset
01:01:30classes I love it I love how you give
01:01:32context to everything and it makes so
01:01:34much sense if you if you actually look
01:01:36at Peter Thiel is kind of a carrier who
01:01:39drops his Founders to to a position
01:01:42where Warren Buffett can even look into
01:01:44it you're right from zero to then he
01:01:48takes it and then 10 say Warren is like
01:01:50okay maybe maybe not Warren is never
01:01:51going to look back to zero he's never
01:01:53going to be the carrier he's always
01:01:54going to be Peterson is willing to take
01:01:55the risk of saying I don't understand
01:01:57the business fully but I understand the
01:02:00trend I understand the person yeah
01:02:01Warren Buffet will never never do
01:02:04something which he doesn't understand
01:02:05really well he's like mostly Trends can
01:02:08come and go uh this the stock Coca-Cola
01:02:12will continue because people will still
01:02:13need uh drinks or Amex will still be uh
01:02:16required and still that's why he's uh
01:02:19like you know he's missed like a couple
01:02:20of opportunities like apple of course he
01:02:23was so late in apple and he says that
01:02:25like I was late about Apple because he
01:02:26never believed in it he's like never
01:02:27believed in it and you know there was
01:02:30one interesting fact about a Peter Sila
01:02:32founder the Thiel Fellowship yeah I know
01:02:34yeah right it's crazy the guy is funding
01:02:38school students to not go to college and
01:02:40build something he's like yellow boys
01:02:45don't let you universities interfere
01:02:48with your education that's what his
01:02:51premise obviously like Jack Dorsey all
01:02:53the dropouts
01:02:58vitalik butyrin okay and then like
01:03:01everybody became yes all his bets are
01:03:03like no I think he basically his
01:03:05philosophy is conventional education and
01:03:07group think will spoil a gem yeah yeah
01:03:09and your thoughts and your uh I think
01:03:13Peter understands this thing this
01:03:15teenage years where you're going to
01:03:16college and where you're being molded to
01:03:18fit in into society he says no
01:03:20disruption will happen from people who
01:03:21are not fitting in they are sticking out
01:03:26but those are the gems which he's
01:03:29backing yeah okay I've understood one
01:03:31thing in my life I don't know maybe
01:03:32tomorrow I can be wrong but today I've
01:03:35understood that
01:03:36every human being we all develop a gut
01:03:41feeling or a way of doing something
01:03:42which works out right for us okay we
01:03:45don't necessarily know how this works
01:03:47out right but we just know how to do it
01:03:49right for example it can be just about
01:03:51picking the right podcast guest it can
01:03:53be just about asking the right question
01:03:54it can be just about hiring the right
01:03:56person you don't know the real reason
01:03:58behind it but just because you've done
01:03:59it over or maybe external factors are so
01:04:01many you just know for you what works
01:04:04correct and how organizations are built
01:04:07how do you take that one thing which is
01:04:09your gut feeling or which works for you
01:04:11into a process which can be replicated
01:04:14by 20 more people
01:04:15that is how organizations are built
01:04:17because there's a CEO or there's a
01:04:19salesperson who comes and sells but if
01:04:21you want to build like 500 people sales
01:04:23Army to do the same kind of thing you
01:04:26need to extrapolate the entire that one
01:04:28minute
01:04:29in a process of 10 days and then give
01:04:32that Playbook to somebody else and
01:04:33that's what you have to do so that's
01:04:34what I keep doing optimizing for that
01:04:36like I found out for example there were
01:04:38like two three things which worked out
01:04:40well for me that's why maybe we grew
01:04:42that's why people love us that's why
01:04:43people watch this I was like what is
01:04:45that thing I'll spend endless nights in
01:04:47us what is that thing I'll extrapolate
01:04:49I'll put that I'll put that entire
01:04:51process once I've built that process and
01:04:53Playbook I try to hire right people and
01:04:55give that Playbook to them and then if
01:04:57for six months without me they're able
01:04:59to give me the same growth wow then I'm
01:05:01like it's done now what's the next thing
01:05:03for me because now I've given the
01:05:06Playbook of something which I knew which
01:05:08I could do it nicely there are 20 more
01:05:10people who could do it nicely and if if
01:05:12they are willingly like they are hungry
01:05:15enough they will train another 200
01:05:17people right so I'll be replaceable I'll
01:05:20get replaced in like another six months
01:05:22so for me it gets very important to
01:05:24evolve into a new thing which again
01:05:27becomes the next big thing for me to
01:05:29solve it like in next three four years
01:05:30which will give me a leverage to
01:05:33understand something in one minute and
01:05:34again then extrapolate the process wow I
01:05:36think it reminded me of two very
01:05:38phenomenal uh things first one was you
01:05:41know Howard shells Starbucks he said
01:05:44look he used to no I don't know but
01:05:46earlier I would want and everybody in
01:05:49the senior leadership should go and be a
01:05:52server in the shop Because unless you
01:05:55know that environment you can never
01:05:57whichever leadership position doesn't
01:05:59matter and many companies have taken
01:06:01that and said was day in the field
01:06:03pingan uh not sping on sorry
01:06:07Jessica tan is the uh one of the largest
01:06:11Chinese insurers and life insurance and
01:06:13all and we don't see what she does is
01:06:16pinga has a lot of call centers and like
01:06:18China's scale is always like twenty
01:06:20thousand two hundred thousand two
01:06:21million so some gazillion number of
01:06:23people I spend a day like just at the
01:06:26call center because I know my first Port
01:06:28of Call is all of those guys so and they
01:06:31don't know I'm listening but I listen
01:06:32and sometimes you know what he said I
01:06:33also join and participate and be the
01:06:36customer service representative because
01:06:38then I know and if I'm doing it three
01:06:41more people will do it they do it then
01:06:43more people will do it so that's how I'm
01:06:45seeing you're setting the thing I know
01:06:47the customer I have to do it but then
01:06:49everybody else then follows and how I'm
01:06:51replicating it uh let's just disseminate
01:06:54the entire startup okay you tell me what
01:06:57are the most important functions on the
01:06:59broader perspective for a good startup
01:07:02to run and effectively in the function
01:07:05what I mean like like I mean sales they
01:07:07can marketing they can be operations
01:07:08what are the top seven or eight what do
01:07:10you feel like how the organization is
01:07:13divided I'm talking from the startup
01:07:14point of view
01:07:17it's very difficult very small company
01:07:19people are just getting started what all
01:07:22they should need to be like
01:07:24there has to be journalists but
01:07:25Specialists so you definitely on the
01:07:28tech side and Tech can include digital
01:07:31analytics data development there's a
01:07:33tech yeah domain uh if you may and you
01:07:36sometimes include product in it
01:07:37sometimes it depends on the nature of
01:07:39the startup but there is a tech which is
01:07:40for sure there there is somebody who has
01:07:43business Revenue growth okay and that
01:07:47business may have backend in it or not
01:07:49but it depends on size and scale but
01:07:50there is a dhanda um
01:07:56and you can do that and there is
01:07:58something which has
01:08:00oftentimes separated as customer okay it
01:08:02could be customer support customer care
01:08:04Delight it could be customer analytics
01:08:06and so on but and then there is all the
01:08:09control functions because you will need
01:08:10admin office
01:08:18there is a Control Function so
01:08:20essentially you have a tech you have a
01:08:22business you have customer a customer
01:08:26can have like user experience and all of
01:08:28those things and you have control
01:08:30functions that to me would be the okay
01:08:33and if you look at these functions
01:08:35primary context is I feel like a good
01:08:40Problem Solver energy because there are
01:08:41like fundamental problems at the edge
01:08:42like it's not like very if you look at
01:08:45in today's world this is a common joke
01:08:47between me and my co-founder I say this
01:08:49okay boss
01:08:56great Point yeah right so that's the
01:08:58thing great point we need analytical
01:09:01thinkers we need problem solvers who can
01:09:04approach a particular problem and solve
01:09:06it correct that's why that's why the
01:09:08range concept works out really well and
01:09:10you need a generalist in this world of
01:09:12Specialists
01:09:14I feel the fundamental things one of
01:09:17them is creative thinking one of them is
01:09:19problem solving the other thing is and
01:09:21uh first principle thinking right
01:09:24so how do we develop problem solving
01:09:27skills or Analytics
01:09:30wow
01:09:32so I think
01:09:34there are some
01:09:36schools of thought about problem solving
01:09:38fundamentally
01:09:40so for example there is a Socratic
01:09:42method of problem solving which is ask
01:09:44questions so you say customer is not
01:09:47happy why product is not reaching on
01:09:49time why
01:09:50root cause analysis root cause so it
01:09:53then distills into many things but
01:09:54you're just asking why who what why why
01:09:58you go deeper and deeper and deeper and
01:10:00deeper so it's like deep dive into it
01:10:02but it is always a I don't know the
01:10:04answer to that you may also not know the
01:10:06answer but I'm just pushing pushing
01:10:08pushing to say
01:10:10then you may say information yeah
01:10:13but essentially you are just going the
01:10:16Socrates used to solve most problems
01:10:18that way and that has given the rise to
01:10:19various tools from the socratic style so
01:10:23that one tool is like issue tree okay we
01:10:25want to disrupt the car industry okay
01:10:28issue one what is the current problem in
01:10:31the car industry what have others done
01:10:33about the problem so far what are other
01:10:35industry learnings we can do so you can
01:10:37just draw in issue tree and keep going
01:10:39deeper and deeper into it the root cause
01:10:42RCA method the trashing method the
01:10:44fishbone uh your diagrams all of them
01:10:47are actually a function of Socratic
01:10:49school of thought okay one but there is
01:10:53a different method which Edward de Bono
01:10:55basically I think pioneered I have not
01:10:57seen anybody else before him do that
01:10:59that's why I'm just attributing it to
01:11:01him when he said you know six hacks of
01:11:03thinking six hacks hats you said
01:11:06whenever you're a problem solver now six
01:11:08hats
01:11:11tomorrow
01:11:19[Music]
01:11:27let's get all the facts so the first
01:11:30hack of problem solving aspirotism is
01:11:32the white hat white is a plain cousin a
01:11:35white canvas
01:11:37okay let's get the facts clear is it
01:11:40your opinion that this is happening or
01:11:42is there a fact behind it because
01:11:43oftentimes people confuse Ki I think we
01:11:47are winning they think I feel that
01:11:50feeling
01:11:51you know
01:11:55in God we trust everybody else needs to
01:11:58get data
01:12:00School
01:12:05then the next hat he says is green green
01:12:08is the color of freshness
01:12:10opportunities let's be what are the new
01:12:13things green when we and when advertible
01:12:16when we are wearing the green hat no we
01:12:18don't apply things like is this even
01:12:20possible no
01:12:21possible
01:12:26possibilities
01:12:32new ideas we are just let's just put new
01:12:34ideas to the table so green hack what if
01:12:36I fly while a situation what if you
01:12:38could do this what if you had no
01:12:39constraints let's just do green hats
01:12:41okay then is our favorite
01:12:45I want to generalize for a country or
01:12:48anything but black hat
01:12:50problems that's the style where you said
01:12:52Devil's Advocate yeah okay let me differ
01:12:54with you let me challenge you on this I
01:12:56think there are these three things wrong
01:12:57yeah
01:13:02is a very important hat yeah if you just
01:13:05have possibilities ideas facts things
01:13:07will go wrong let us figure out what are
01:13:11what things can go wrong
01:13:12there's a black hat then he says
01:13:15red hat
01:13:17concerns
01:13:19what will people think what it's not
01:13:20about what will go wrong it's about
01:13:22concerns fears it's emotions
01:13:29emojis are also like you know red it
01:13:32could be like extreme emotion so what
01:13:34are the emotions involved in it
01:13:36okay
01:13:37then there is a blue hat and there's a
01:13:38yellow hat I'm not getting I'm never but
01:13:40the point is
01:13:43a Socratic method was a lot about logic
01:13:48okay and logic is a very important tool
01:13:51so lots of tools are about logic but he
01:13:53says logic will not solve and should not
01:13:55solve all the problems
01:13:58you should use possibility thinking you
01:14:01should use concerns fears emotions uh
01:14:05you should use all other facts because
01:14:07Socrates was not concerned so facts
01:14:10yeah okay so he was so that's the second
01:14:13another school of thinking and many
01:14:15people you will see is
01:14:17over time
01:14:18become very good in certain hats so we
01:14:20will see some of the founders are very
01:14:22good in possibilities
01:14:25don't tell me all these these are all
01:14:28restraints and shackles and constraints
01:14:30I don't want all of those but you need
01:14:32to put those
01:14:34that's how you will Spar I know and what
01:14:36the bonus point was the way to problem
01:14:38is always either a given problem
01:14:41everybody wears the same hat at the same
01:14:43time right now please keep your concerns
01:14:45out of the room when we are looking at
01:14:47concerns let's not look at facts let's
01:14:51say facts are not saying my product is
01:14:53not doing well it's okay
01:14:55some people feel the product is not
01:14:57doing well let's understand the feeling
01:14:59level yeah
01:15:05let's behave your emotions let's get
01:15:08into it okay and that's what he and he
01:15:10said everybody wear the same hat or he
01:15:13said in a room assign roles
01:15:20and he said sometimes you give the
01:15:22strongest hat to that guy
01:15:24or deliberately
01:15:36what will you do with this problem so
01:15:39another school of thought
01:15:43there is a third school of thought which
01:15:44is what was pioneered in military
01:15:48CIA and all which is simulations and war
01:15:50games
01:15:51okay okay doesn't matter what the facts
01:15:54are let's assume we go down the school
01:15:56of thought let's simulate it
01:15:58that's what war gaming is
01:16:03the resources of military resources of
01:16:06spy agencies that phenomenal resources
01:16:08you cannot compete with those because
01:16:10they're defense budgets can be Limitless
01:16:12they can simulate they will actually
01:16:15demo
01:16:16what will be the reactions of different
01:16:18people geopolitical analysis but
01:16:21companies also do that see what if this
01:16:23happens let's assume we've done this war
01:16:26gaming we play a role you are the
01:16:29competitor you are my customer here what
01:16:31would you do with X5 now let's take it
01:16:33to the next level yeah
01:16:37it's a very different uh kind of thing
01:16:40sometimes you will allocate resources to
01:16:42people
01:16:45we are forcing people you're creating
01:16:47war games and that's also all many of
01:16:49these games what are people also doing
01:16:52when you get into a game you're actually
01:16:54simulating some of this and people the
01:16:56military has been very smart and if we
01:16:58are building up our bin Naval Base here
01:17:01some countries what will happen three
01:17:02years from now basis will continue what
01:17:05is so using all the information and data
01:17:08you are simulating the future and then
01:17:10you're working backward from it see
01:17:13seven different scenarios
01:17:18ity how do I maximize the probability
01:17:21this is almost like this Multiverse yeah
01:17:23Spiderman Theory and saying yeah
01:17:25Multiverse
01:17:26let's uh but that's what war gaming is
01:17:29all about that's what simulations are
01:17:31all about it's a very different School
01:17:32of problem solving damn it's a
01:17:36you
01:17:38you know you give me such oh
01:17:41like you give me
01:17:44to just solve any problem in such a
01:17:46specific way okay I don't know whether
01:17:48if this prob like every problem will get
01:17:50solved this by this or no but it just
01:17:52sounds so big is it gives me so many
01:17:55different perspectives about just one
01:17:58thing which I was looking at just from
01:18:00one lens
01:18:01yeah and then you can it may never solve
01:18:03the full problem but what it does know
01:18:05initials
01:18:07to get to a certain because many of the
01:18:10times you have a judgment on what the
01:18:12real answer is you just need either
01:18:14confirmation validation Challenge and so
01:18:16on
01:18:17you can to Fast Track that process yeah
01:18:20Fast Track that process I don't know
01:18:23what what also would happen in this is
01:18:25sometimes as a leader or as someone
01:18:27who's a data person they feel that they
01:18:30know everything yeah and in this process
01:18:33you're just you're just being open for
01:18:36everybody to participate and challenge
01:18:38your notion absolutely like you can in
01:18:41fact in the same way if you feel like
01:18:42you're the one who has all the answers
01:18:44wear the green hat and give someone else
01:18:45the black hat and just understand what
01:18:47goes on or just reverse the rules so
01:18:49that's what the process of problem
01:18:50solving is as important because if the
01:18:52guy who if the junior most person
01:18:55actually is a talented guy but you never
01:18:56create an atmosphere and environment
01:18:58where you say boss
01:19:00how many years have you been in the
01:19:02company I've been running this business
01:19:04for 20 years come on okay if you create
01:19:07that so you need to create so that's why
01:19:08I read alio retailer says boss I want
01:19:11criticism and challenge to my ideas
01:19:12should come from anybody
01:19:14you challenge me I will not take it
01:19:16badly later on you say no I felt it I
01:19:19was thinking about it then I will just
01:19:21really butcher the person because
01:19:24but it says that it's on the leaders to
01:19:28create that culture
01:19:30can prob can we have effective problem
01:19:32solving or not yeah because the best way
01:19:34not to have problem solving is to call
01:19:36for lots of meetings
01:19:37create subcommittees problem will never
01:19:40get solved people will be busy
01:19:42doing lots of things lots of document
01:19:44lots of PowerPoint lots of excel
01:19:45phenomenal everybody will you know it's
01:19:47called mafa mistaking activity for
01:19:49achievement activity
01:19:56that's why this fastest users basically
01:19:58saying decision will we will not go out
01:20:01of the room till the decision is solved
01:20:04toilet that's taking it to an extreme
01:20:06but but sometimes the
01:20:09the first nuts to crack will be cracked
01:20:11when everybody is under time pressure
01:20:13very very interesting and this gets me
01:20:16to a question like why do you feel okay
01:20:19so you have this school of thought and
01:20:20you're very very articulate about how to
01:20:22solve problems and I'm sure you must
01:20:24have seen a lot of people who you must
01:20:27have hired that they're exceptionally
01:20:29good at problem solving and there are a
01:20:31lot of people who are not no matter how
01:20:33many things you do it they're good at
01:20:34other things they're not good at like
01:20:36approaching problems like why do you
01:20:38think like what's the difference between
01:20:40some people who are good problem solvers
01:20:41versus people who can't solve problems I
01:20:43think the big biggest difference is I
01:20:45would say openness okay openness to
01:20:48admit key I may not know this
01:20:51I may not know this but I am 20 years
01:20:53but possible enough I may not know this
01:20:55and am I willing to accept it mentally I
01:20:57may not openly say but am I willing to
01:21:00openness is the openness and then the
01:21:02corollary of that is curiosity do I
01:21:05really want to know more and solve it in
01:21:06the best possible manner or I say
01:21:09three times it has worked for me in the
01:21:10past Before Time
01:21:14and I think what it leads to know is
01:21:16biases I think it's a very important
01:21:18yeah I've never gone to this yeah
01:21:20because people who are not problem
01:21:22solvers have a bias sometimes the bias
01:21:24is a Superman bias it hasn't worked for
01:21:27seven people
01:21:29it's worked for me in the past I will do
01:21:31it
01:21:33and there are many types of biases which
01:21:34go into decision making and problem
01:21:36solving and decision making but if I
01:21:38have so for example one of the biggest
01:21:40biases lost aversion key yeah we it's
01:21:43like saying you and I are very good
01:21:45friends you trust me for most things I
01:21:48know your preferences very well my name
01:21:50is
01:21:53okay and I come back and say Raj bakwas
01:21:55movie don't waste your time your money
01:21:59to go there and whatever you eat is a
01:22:01waste do it elsewhere
01:22:03most of us will be like boss
01:22:04tickets
01:22:07but it's a lost aversion companies once
01:22:11a decision is done you know it's not
01:22:13working but you will flog the dead horse
01:22:17because you don't want to stop
01:22:20so much has gone in it's not just about
01:22:21money it's like I have put my name to a
01:22:23project how do I stop it very difficult
01:22:28so loss aversion bias it's like that's
01:22:30why and then this selective hearing
01:22:33I hear what I want to hear when I'm
01:22:34trying to solve a problem selective
01:22:36Amnesia facts two facts which I want I
01:22:39will use those to solve the this thing
01:22:41whatever I don't know that's an outlier
01:22:43data
01:22:45um
01:22:49that's exclude that
01:22:53I didn't and like I really don't
01:22:55understand
01:22:56how and when
01:22:59this entire session went from me trying
01:23:01to understand a perspective to roasting
01:23:03Raj
01:23:08[Laughter]
01:23:10your podcast and said right let's start
01:23:12roasting now you started doing it you
01:23:14were telling me because obviously not
01:23:16every time you go through this but I
01:23:18feel as a human being when you're just
01:23:19trying to become a new specifically when
01:23:22you come from a place where you have
01:23:24tried to understand and get in an
01:23:27industry where there were no presidents
01:23:28to follow like you were trying to do
01:23:30everything by yourself you tend to form
01:23:33certain biases even though you would
01:23:35realize that hey I'm very open hey I am
01:23:37the best guy and now I take like
01:23:39feedback from Lords and you will do that
01:23:41you can't like but
01:23:43there are certain times I think let's
01:23:45say 80 times you're you're open and
01:23:47you're ready to feedback 20 times you
01:23:49have these biases and then these are the
01:23:51biases which when people like you just
01:23:53come over and then tell us it just
01:23:55haunting me right now that why did
01:23:57I do that what did I do but you know
01:23:59biases are also not wrong okay it is
01:24:01that you need to be aware that there
01:24:04could be a bias because yeah sometimes
01:24:05you have a proven model of success
01:24:08though that will be a part of your bias
01:24:11because you know it's worked for me
01:24:12three times boss and it's a success now
01:24:14are you enlightened enough
01:24:17aware enough or you create a process
01:24:20where at least for a period of time you
01:24:22can be challenged on it yeah because
01:24:23otherwise be and you know the it's
01:24:27ironic that the most successful people
01:24:29over time start becoming bad at problem
01:24:32solving because
01:24:34you know it's always like saying every
01:24:37time I know I'm going to play tennis I
01:24:39always bring a tennis bracket tennis
01:24:41rackets
01:24:43I'm good at using the tennis racket for
01:24:45solving a problem
01:24:47I always so so that's that's the
01:24:50complication and because I'm so
01:24:52successful I know that this is the
01:24:53answer
01:24:54um I know this is the answer this is the
01:24:56way to operate this is the way and so in
01:24:58Elon Musk when he started Tesla one of
01:25:01his core things was don't get higher
01:25:03from the Auto industry as far as
01:25:05possible it's like no Auto indices
01:25:11now of course the time will come when
01:25:13for the engine I am not going to say
01:25:15well let me hire a creative guy from
01:25:18Something no no no there is a there is a
01:25:21right balance but if I hear more and
01:25:24more from the same industry how am I
01:25:26ever going to innovate
01:25:28and what did he know about uh cars and
01:25:31Automotive right even he had a Paypal
01:25:33and all of that uh space it's okay
01:25:36if you get the right kind of people
01:25:38together put the right problem solving
01:25:40frame in mind and the right governance
01:25:42for decision making
01:25:43can you see what happens damn
01:25:47I like this because now you're giving me
01:25:50unknowingly or knowingly you're giving
01:25:52me lessons on hiring on mixing building
01:25:55the right mix of Team not only just
01:25:57problem solving okay I wonder like let's
01:25:59just go back to a Mackenzie Journey sure
01:26:01okay it's a McKenzie journey and there's
01:26:03a question which I asked as well okay
01:26:05he's like why what's the reason
01:26:07that in India there are so in U.S
01:26:10there's one Mafia called PayPal Mafia
01:26:12yeah in India there are two mafias
01:26:14Flipkart Mafia McKenzie Mafia yeah right
01:26:16and what do I mean by mechanism Affairs
01:26:18all these people who are of course
01:26:20McKenzie people they all went out went
01:26:23out and started their big ass businesses
01:26:25or our CEOs in the best of the best
01:26:27companies in the country absolutely what
01:26:29is the reason why there's like people
01:26:31like you there's people like Anan
01:26:33there's Ashish what's the reason what is
01:26:37this thing about Mackenzie which is
01:26:41which is building these kind of leaders
01:26:43earlier in India there is to be CEO
01:26:45Factory should be you used to be
01:26:46Unilever unit level right everybody used
01:26:48to be Unilever ended up becoming CEOs of
01:26:50XYZ XYZ companies right now it's
01:26:52changing now this Flipkart Mafia there's
01:26:54a sort of Founders uh McKenzie Mafia the
01:26:57founders and the CEOs why what is the
01:26:59reason so I think if you go back in
01:27:01India also I think you had a Unilever
01:27:03liver's Mafia PNG less so because PNG
01:27:06had a very good way of retaining people
01:27:07and you got a Citibank okay so all the
01:27:10banking guys used to be like City
01:27:11bankers and a lot of the fmcg Pharma
01:27:14used to have the levers because in these
01:27:17companies teach you many things okay now
01:27:21McKinsey alums have gone on across
01:27:25Industries unlike levers on like City
01:27:27Bankers most City Bankers or most ex
01:27:29ICICI guys would be the CEOs in
01:27:31different mbfcs and microfinance
01:27:33because they learned a lot and you're
01:27:37groomed for leadership okay now in
01:27:39McKinsey you were of course groomed but
01:27:42you were never groomed for sectors you
01:27:43have groomed for problem solving room
01:27:45for communication stakeholder management
01:27:47now these skills are invaluable when it
01:27:51comes to going outside so and different
01:27:53people leave McKinsey at different
01:27:54stages I mean people don't some people
01:27:56stay on for long and it's a phenomenal
01:27:58institution I mean I have the you I
01:28:01spend 18 years
01:28:02I was almost a part of the furniture
01:28:04there and I really love but what
01:28:07McKinsey did was it said no problem is
01:28:09too difficult to solve okay and I have
01:28:12worked in more than 65 countries so you
01:28:15land up in Tanzania and you're working
01:28:17with a client you like you will
01:28:18instantly pick up the basics of problem
01:28:19solving basics of communication basics
01:28:22of stakeholders management why are
01:28:24people thinking what they are thinking
01:28:25basics of influencing what you said
01:28:27earlier from the book of influence and
01:28:29so on stays the same around the world
01:28:32wherever you go you can go into
01:28:33Argentina you can go into Africa you can
01:28:36go into the most developed financial
01:28:37markets of London where I uh interact
01:28:40with most U.S you go to China the basics
01:28:43don't change and what McKinsey gives you
01:28:44is the confidence to say what problem
01:28:46doesn't matter cultural context and
01:28:49National context doesn't matter you
01:28:51should be able to apply those same
01:28:52skills and McKinsey forces you to really
01:28:55work with different kinds of clients
01:28:56different countries so by the time you
01:28:59say you know what I think I'm confident
01:29:01you can work in any country you can work
01:29:03in any context and uh you know you're on
01:29:05your own Flipkart also Flipkart did that
01:29:07in a slightly more localized Ecom
01:29:10startup because Flipkart was one of the
01:29:11earliest yeah and hence people realize
01:29:14what e-commerce is what does it mean to
01:29:16really have app and digital engagement
01:29:19and Logistics sourcing so all of the
01:29:22elements of a product a tech platform
01:29:25Logistics and Supply Chain management
01:29:27Finance all of those for a class which
01:29:30is changing yeah what's done by Flipkart
01:29:32yeah so it is rare to fly in Flipkart
01:29:34CEOs like in
01:29:36Financial Services or you will you will
01:29:39not find them in outside India as much
01:29:41yeah but you find McKinsey guys the
01:29:43McKinsey Mafia you're seeing in India is
01:29:45there around the world it's there
01:29:47everywhere the U.S will have like
01:29:48Fortune 100 will have like 30 CEOs will
01:29:50be ex McKenzie the Starbucks
01:29:53McKinsey let's say Morgan Stanley was ex
01:29:55McKinsey at some time you had so many by
01:29:58the way
01:30:00but globally if you look at consulting
01:30:02firms BCG Bain we'll also have that so
01:30:05although I love McKinsey and I would say
01:30:07McKinsey has more
01:30:08uh it is just that McKinsey has been in
01:30:10India longer than BCG and Venus okay so
01:30:13it takes time for people to actually
01:30:16either you know you have cohorts you
01:30:17need 10 years you have been then you
01:30:19leave you do something so shantan will
01:30:21left after six years Anand left after 15
01:30:24years
01:30:25the C of Tata AIG left after 12 years so
01:30:29different people live at different
01:30:30stages and will do phenomenal stuff
01:30:32whether they do their own companies be
01:30:34with larger companies and do amazing
01:30:37stuff being investor because McKinsey
01:30:39also teaches you to look at across
01:30:41Industries so you'll have many investors
01:30:43yeah who will have uh you know because
01:30:46investing is not yeah you need to
01:30:48specialize but you the problem solving
01:30:50Financial modeling rigors of that you
01:30:53learn in McKinsey
01:30:55so how okay before I go to the next
01:30:58question I want to understand like how
01:30:59people were normal they're just starting
01:31:01up how can they get these kind of
01:31:03groomings is there a way for them to get
01:31:05groomed because it's you know I tell you
01:31:08earlier entrepreneur used to like
01:31:11entrepreneurship was out of situation
01:31:13now thought of choice that's a
01:31:15phenomenal point right phenomenal Bond
01:31:17so it was the earlier like you would not
01:31:19you don't decide to become an
01:31:21entrepreneur now you decide I was like
01:31:22oh I want to do this I want to do that
01:31:24and that what is happening you're the
01:31:27molding years when you actually get
01:31:30molded in a certain industry or
01:31:32somewhere those are eliminated
01:31:34completely so you're fresh absolutely so
01:31:36how do you get groomed because there's
01:31:39no way as long as we can debate but
01:31:42there are exceptions but if you look at
01:31:43the average and if you look at the
01:31:44probability people who have molded in
01:31:47XYZ industry and they're excelled
01:31:48somewhere their chances of success in a
01:31:50new startup is much higher than a person
01:31:52who's just starting out right absolutely
01:31:53right there are exceptions of of
01:31:56the world
01:31:58they're all like exceptionally well
01:32:01absolutely yeah right but these are
01:32:03exceptions apart from and they are also
01:32:05by the way they all are successful
01:32:06because if you look at the real reason
01:32:08why they're successful is it in the
01:32:09leadership team yeah you look at zepto's
01:32:12leadership team they they're so
01:32:14experienced people that like the they
01:32:17they groom those two boys right if you
01:32:20look at Zuckerberg's uh you know
01:32:22leadership team you look at oyo's
01:32:23leadership team you find out that so how
01:32:25a normal person can just get into this
01:32:27grooming because now we're choosing and
01:32:31same going back to your point how you
01:32:33said like passion right now people feel
01:32:35that that's their passion and because
01:32:36they like it they want to do it they
01:32:38because if because what they want to do
01:32:40they can't do anything else so it's very
01:32:42difficult for them to go start and be in
01:32:44McKenzie for six years and try to do
01:32:45this no I think see earlier as you
01:32:48rightly I mean that's a phenomenal thing
01:32:49you said is entrepreneurs or people who
01:32:51like 50s 55 you have made money you have
01:32:55a downside protection is there let me
01:32:57say okay let me not work for somebody
01:32:58else let me work for myself and you had
01:33:00many people who started entities that
01:33:02way today
01:33:04risk taking has become a lot more
01:33:06acceptable you can get financed people
01:33:08other people will join you people other
01:33:10people will also look at you very
01:33:11differently yeah earlier it was like
01:33:14so you had like government jobs or the
01:33:16safest then you had private sector jobs
01:33:18with the tatas and birlas then you had
01:33:20new age companies then you have you know
01:33:23you join a startup and then you're like
01:33:24start your own startup yeah after two
01:33:26three startup students you can start
01:33:27your own thing so the ecosystem has
01:33:30played a very important role in what you
01:33:32said which is entrepreneurship by choice
01:33:34and as my first option and not as like
01:33:36yeah
01:33:38so I think it's a great thing now what
01:33:40Founders can do is
01:33:43I think they need to be
01:33:45willing to learn some of these skill
01:33:48sets so I think they need to be aware
01:33:49I'm passionate about an area but there
01:33:52are a business needs like six other
01:33:53areas to come together yeah okay now
01:33:55that can be through a team okay am I
01:33:57like complimenting myself because for a
01:34:00Founder to learn everything is not even
01:34:02desirable and will not even happen yeah
01:34:04because you want the founder to stay
01:34:06special at what he or she is you don't
01:34:08want him to start learning
01:34:10law and bookkeeping and this and that
01:34:13that's not yeah it's nothing leave it to
01:34:16do my next question Leave It to The
01:34:17Domain expert also then you have mentors
01:34:20you will now have people who will say
01:34:22you know what you're doing something
01:34:23exciting let me help you so finding the
01:34:25right mentors being open and saying I
01:34:26need help you have investors the
01:34:29investors also realize this that you
01:34:30know when a young founder you need to
01:34:31supplement and complement it so don't go
01:34:34for the check check in India I think
01:34:37Founders today are in a great position
01:34:39where you know money exceeds
01:34:42entrepreneurship
01:34:44okay so you have a lot more people
01:34:45chasing yeah okay so how do you select
01:34:49your cap table and so on you know people
01:34:51who will also support you in different
01:34:52areas many firms have this you know they
01:34:54will have some grooming programs they
01:34:56will have some accelerator programs they
01:34:57will say by the way you know what back
01:34:59office
01:35:00firms have Consolidated back offices for
01:35:02their investing companies because they
01:35:03don't want a Founder to now run around
01:35:05and find a tax firm and an audit firm
01:35:07and a legal firm and uh you know add
01:35:09them in for real estate and also I'm
01:35:11cuddling yeah those are not evaluated
01:35:12activities so long as a Founder is
01:35:14willing to create an ecosystem whether
01:35:18his own team whether his own mentors his
01:35:21investors his personal advisors
01:35:24and then depending on some people also
01:35:26go and say look I want to take a course
01:35:27in X let me listen to a podcast or let
01:35:31me do a short course in either an online
01:35:33uh University or some place and many my
01:35:37some one of the founders was telling me
01:35:38he went to the U.S and he heard from
01:35:40like 10 different phenomenal individuals
01:35:43Singularity universities there where
01:35:44many Founders go and for two weeks and
01:35:46so on so I think the founder has to be
01:35:49open to know what he or she does not
01:35:51know and willing to ask and get help
01:35:54because if you say name help me
01:35:58it's the worst return on that Founders
01:36:01time
01:36:03Fair now what do you again like another
01:36:06question of the same thread
01:36:09as a we're talking about McKenzie Mafia
01:36:12we're talking about Founders and what
01:36:14they learned in McKenzie and stuff right
01:36:16what do you think what are the
01:36:20like what are the top three things you
01:36:22have learned in McKenzie I think problem
01:36:25solving very clear like go deeper I want
01:36:28to know about like the mental model or
01:36:30something because I feel like mental
01:36:31models are
01:36:33are something which you operate on and
01:36:34that is the reason one of the one of the
01:36:36biggest reasons why people are
01:36:37successful in their Journeys right
01:36:39should we talk about the the broader
01:36:41perspective let's say problem solving
01:36:43but
01:36:44which was a hat model which you said six
01:36:47ads like something like that so
01:36:48everybody has that it can be creative
01:36:50thinking it'd be approaching it can be
01:36:51multiple things
01:36:53sure so I think uh I think within
01:36:56problem solving I think the
01:36:58issue analysis okay how do you analyze
01:37:03issues and and how do you use a
01:37:04combination of
01:37:06facts numbers
01:37:09primary research secondary research
01:37:13creative collisions experiments okay so
01:37:16it could be experiments with real
01:37:19consumers experience in test cases
01:37:21design thinking simulation so the the
01:37:24analysis of issues what are the all the
01:37:26tools that you can actually throw to
01:37:28make sure your issue tree analysis issue
01:37:30trees are a very very common thing which
01:37:32everybody in McKinsey will say okay
01:37:34and at any given point of time you need
01:37:37to have an answer
01:37:38okay okay you know whatever you know
01:37:40about a problem but we were always told
01:37:42yeah and the companies the client CEO
01:37:45walks in and he says he has only 10
01:37:46seconds or 30 seconds and says
01:37:48ocean what's the answer
01:37:50you should be able to tell him
01:37:52so you are constantly synthesizing you
01:37:56are summarizing what do I know end of
01:37:58the day I have three more days to solve
01:38:00the problem I have one more week but
01:38:01based on whatever I know today whatever
01:38:03is my analysis today if I've told you
01:38:06tell the answer and execute it what is
01:38:08my answer because sometimes things
01:38:11change you have to say
01:38:14what will your answer be so I was always
01:38:16trained to say if I have one month I
01:38:19will use one month to formulate the best
01:38:21answer but even on day two day two yeah
01:38:28answer
01:38:36accuracy will build up let Perfection
01:38:39not be the enemy of good
01:38:43them so that was a very important thing
01:38:45the second thing which is not a
01:38:47no it would be like communication me
01:38:49Clarity of thought drives Clarity of
01:38:52communication okay don't worry about
01:38:54communication are you clear in what you
01:38:55want to communicate
01:38:57okay
01:39:00you know your analogy stories but be
01:39:03very clear and you always you would be
01:39:05told at the end of a meeting at the end
01:39:06of a presentation
01:39:08imagine teen Sal bad why would people
01:39:11remember that meeting and all of us
01:39:13remember a conversation a meeting that
01:39:15made it memorable so what is it that you
01:39:17are going to communicate today one year
01:39:19later people will remember
01:39:21are you clear about it
01:39:23okay that's the second thing our store
01:39:25and the third thing is not a mental
01:39:26model it was like a survival model I
01:39:29would say because we were always
01:39:30traveling you were always like going
01:39:32from meeting to shower Conference next
01:39:34flight and train and this and that so it
01:39:36was a very thing it was like
01:39:38eat while you can sleep while you can
01:39:40 while you can
01:39:42it's very
01:39:43sounds very crass but it was like you
01:39:45know
01:39:46balance you're eating
01:39:48because you can you know people burn
01:39:51themselves out no eat sleep okay people
01:39:55would like you're working across time
01:39:57zones okay how will you and even today
01:39:59you know I have to work across times as
01:40:01a part of my job teams in America teams
01:40:03in Brazil teams and India teams in China
01:40:05sleep is so important
01:40:08and then bodily functions because that's
01:40:10the worst thing that can hit you
01:40:13and you were always told guys you have
01:40:15to manage because nobody's going to come
01:40:16and manage it for you yeah okay because
01:40:18you are in the and adrenaline is the
01:40:20worst enemy you know when you are going
01:40:21gung-ho project yeah you don't realize
01:40:23the harmful effects of things
01:40:26and it's all life is a marathon it's not
01:40:29a Sprint it's not a marathon you need to
01:40:31have done your fueling hydration
01:40:33nutrition training all of that you pace
01:40:37yourself out for it and that's the key
01:40:38thing I learned here McKinsey may you do
01:40:40pace yourself
01:40:42pace yourself is very important in every
01:40:45aspect of your life every because that
01:40:47whether you're in McKenzie whether
01:40:49you're not whether you're a startup
01:40:50founder a content creator or just a
01:40:54regular guy who is hunting for colleges
01:40:57or maybe going to jobs whatever pacing
01:40:59yourself
01:41:00is I think one of the most important
01:41:02things if you can master that you'll
01:41:04have a very good life and most of the
01:41:07people actually struggle to just Pace
01:41:09their life according to what they need
01:41:11and what they want
01:41:12absolutely because it's so difficult
01:41:14right okay like a basic two three
01:41:17questions and then we can wrap this up
01:41:19okay so basically it's like
01:41:21a why do people need Consulting
01:41:25companies and because if they have like
01:41:27exceptionally good teams yeah right
01:41:29isn't it if like the first flaw of
01:41:32organization is your team is not good
01:41:34enough that you need an external help
01:41:36sure right so why do they need it and
01:41:38when do they need it because there are a
01:41:39lot of I feel there's a lot of small
01:41:41business in India there's exceptionally
01:41:44good but in their regions in their areas
01:41:48and they're so good they're they are at
01:41:51a place where they can afford it where
01:41:52they can even afford a consulting firm
01:41:54they can they want to go beyond but
01:41:56they're stuck
01:41:57right they're stuck they don't know so I
01:41:59feel like when should they get it and
01:42:01why do they need it
01:42:03so I think if you look at Consulting
01:42:05form I'm just using management
01:42:06consulting as a thing because you have
01:42:08HR Consulting supplies see if you look
01:42:11at
01:42:12history of management consulting
01:42:13McKinsey was founded in 1926 80 also in
01:42:16like maybe 1930 BCG bains where I think
01:42:19in the 60s and 70s okay
01:42:22Consulting has always fulfilled a
01:42:24certain Arbitrage need that is there
01:42:27earlier it was like Geographic Arbitrage
01:42:29U.S companies
01:42:32some of the best practices of the best
01:42:34so you had a geographic Arbitrage you
01:42:37had people who said okay but somebody in
01:42:39Brazil has already launched this is
01:42:41Uber of X and uh zomato of why
01:42:45somebody somewhere
01:42:49but you did not know what was the best
01:42:53thing in that specific area function
01:42:55expansion and so on he also needed like
01:42:57if a company wanted to expand from U.S
01:42:59to Europe you needed somebody who would
01:43:01help you to understand the European
01:43:02market so Geographic Arbitrage was a
01:43:04very important reason for a long time
01:43:07second thing we can then at Talent
01:43:08Arbitrage consulting firms are hiring
01:43:10the best talent
01:43:12who would go at a problem like a very
01:43:14sharp painter whereas you with the many
01:43:16of the large companies which hired
01:43:17Consultants had people in their late 50s
01:43:19who would say look you know they were
01:43:21very set in their ways they would not go
01:43:23for data whereas these younger people
01:43:25who did not have the 35 years experience
01:43:27but data they would interview customers
01:43:30they would travel in the field and they
01:43:31would come back with what was a very
01:43:33very independent hard-hitting
01:43:35perspective so you had a talent
01:43:36Arbitrage which you tell the top
01:43:38management the reality yeah which
01:43:41sometimes they were vested interests you
01:43:42did not want to understand reality or
01:43:44you did not have the time effort so that
01:43:45was the second
01:43:47third became information Arbitrage
01:43:49because large companies often till the
01:43:5190s and till internet and all became
01:43:53prolific you couldn't even have
01:43:55information about many things what's the
01:43:57market share of eggs there what is the
01:43:59pricing there and consulting firms
01:44:00fulfilled that need yeah information
01:44:01Arbitrage
01:44:03over time what has happened is there is
01:44:05no Geographic Arbitrage remaining you
01:44:07know sitting over at your house what is
01:44:08happening whereas you can get all the
01:44:10information
01:44:11companies are hiring the same talent
01:44:13pool whether in India on the iits or
01:44:15iims or Chartered Accountants and best
01:44:18schools so all of these three arbitrages
01:44:20are old yeah okay then what's remaining
01:44:22I think
01:44:24what is remaining is there is a
01:44:27still you know because internally
01:44:28sometimes you are not able to resolve
01:44:30problems okay so you say look we need
01:44:32somebody outside in to come and look at
01:44:34us and say guys what should we be doing
01:44:36because people have their biases a very
01:44:38important reason why Consultants aren't
01:44:40should be hired is you just feel you
01:44:42know we have all our biases
01:44:45it's a very valid reason yeah there is a
01:44:49not so good reason to hire also
01:44:50sometimes is you need a rubber stamp
01:44:55I don't want to take that tough decision
01:44:57of firing you
01:45:01okay that's the wrong reason to hire
01:45:05sometimes you know you also there are
01:45:07also sometimes investors needed you know
01:45:09you need an independent report but that
01:45:10is I ignore all of that so there is a
01:45:12reason of Independence sometimes yes
01:45:16your own team can do it in six months
01:45:19but consultant who's done that thing
01:45:22three times over who has uh you know who
01:45:24knows what companies are doing will get
01:45:26it done in three weeks
01:45:28so you save time and your resources are
01:45:31also very expensive so getting them out
01:45:33of their day jobs and putting them on a
01:45:34project
01:45:35Outsource acting you will save time
01:45:39okay so that's the second reason why you
01:45:41would hire a consultant if you feel time
01:45:43is saved a Time of Your Precious
01:45:45resources is shared so hire a consulting
01:45:47firm yeah and third is many consulting
01:45:49firms are not just stopping at strategy
01:45:51they are saying execution
01:45:54if they can deliver it faster they may
01:45:57not may not delete better but oftentimes
01:46:00the Consulting from Cut Across the
01:46:01organizational bureaucracy they can like
01:46:03get everybody together they can reach
01:46:05the CEO they can reach the chairman
01:46:06faster
01:46:08meeting
01:46:11so they can get it done faster so on the
01:46:14execution side also there are lots of
01:46:16advantages so there are right reasons to
01:46:18hire there are wrong reasons to hire
01:46:19also and you need to figure out you know
01:46:22you need to make sure that you are
01:46:23hiring for the right reason then you
01:46:25make the Consulting home accountable for
01:46:26the results and not just like say it is
01:46:29their problem no whenever you hire a
01:46:31consultant they have a role to play
01:46:33final responsibility up here
01:46:37very interesting okay tell me like when
01:46:40do they need it when as in like is it
01:46:42like
01:46:43I think there are some always
01:46:45no no no revenues and all our artificial
01:46:48cutoff because of course some you cannot
01:46:50pay if you do not have that good Revenue
01:46:52yeah but consulting firms often do like
01:46:55100 variable fee projects where they say
01:46:57fee will only come if sales have
01:46:59happened
01:47:00but I think more than size there is a
01:47:03certain size where you will hire like a
01:47:05Ernst and Young PWC versus you would
01:47:07hire a BCG McKinsey Bane size is an
01:47:10important threshold but I also think you
01:47:12will hire them at certain critical
01:47:14junctures okay where the cost of getting
01:47:17a decision the wrong is very high okay
01:47:22but let's just make sure we have got
01:47:24everything right okay hire them at
01:47:27Junctions where you have irreversible
01:47:29decisions to make
01:47:30very important thing because that's the
01:47:33time when you can hire them as an
01:47:35insurance and it's like an insurance
01:47:36policy was yeah I know but let me make
01:47:38sure I haven't left anything Unturned or
01:47:41sometimes you hire a consulting firm
01:47:43because you don't want individual
01:47:45agendas to color
01:47:47your decision you say what is the right
01:47:49answer of course I will tweak it adjust
01:47:51it for my company but I cannot take the
01:47:54chance of individual bias hurting my
01:47:57answer
01:47:59Fair those two times were the times yeah
01:48:02I like the I like the
01:48:04I like this answer like I think I like
01:48:06the first point more when like higher at
01:48:08the irreversible decisions what decision
01:48:10when it's very difficult to do it okay I
01:48:13wanted to touch the last topic of the
01:48:16day and it's about
01:48:18building and scaling companies right
01:48:21it's very because we the first call we
01:48:23had it was about you told me you know
01:48:25startup banjata but scale the processor
01:48:28systems right that's her and that's
01:48:31that's something I agree on and I
01:48:33believe in it because obviously I've not
01:48:35been in a position where I had to scale
01:48:37it Blitz scale it but I've seen a lot of
01:48:39people have read about a lot of thought
01:48:41of that right so
01:48:44how let's for a moment let's just stop
01:48:48thinking about fast growing startups
01:48:51okay okay let's start thinking about
01:48:53small businesses sure okay small
01:48:56businesses would be someone
01:48:58fifty thousand one lakh two lakh five
01:49:00lakh 10 lakh Kamara per month correct
01:49:02every right there's a good small team
01:49:04there are no departments there are no
01:49:06functions everything is driven out of
01:49:08one boy one guy one girl everybody's
01:49:11doing everything
01:49:12so what
01:49:14even they have aspirations to grow
01:49:16absolutely
01:49:18and the common the common reason when
01:49:20you ask them like why are you not
01:49:22growing faster why are you not doing
01:49:24this and that typically you will get to
01:49:26listen about three reasons number one
01:49:29because I don't have that much capital
01:49:30okay there's like I don't have enough
01:49:33money to just like do XYZ I don't have
01:49:36right resources because
01:49:42that is the second third is
01:49:47so lack of time lack of people and lack
01:49:50of money is usually what people give you
01:49:53the excuses of like how do you want to
01:49:55grow but typically this is the excuse
01:49:57for large corporations also startups
01:49:58also everybody correct so I don't feel
01:50:00this should be an excuse what do you
01:50:02think like then what should people do in
01:50:05order to scale their business
01:50:07so I think the
01:50:09all of it begins and ends with the
01:50:11founder okay in this because if the
01:50:13founder has no ambition
01:50:18a lot of people have crazy ambition but
01:50:20driven intent is different from ambition
01:50:23um
01:50:24I have an intent I want to scale up with
01:50:27a problem here
01:50:29you know it's like you know I I want to
01:50:31learn French okay my ambition is to be a
01:50:34great friendship
01:50:35foreign
01:50:42foreign
01:50:52[Applause]
01:51:15before dying I wish I would have done
01:51:17that okay I am going to put everything
01:51:19at stake
01:51:21you know rather than like binge watching
01:51:23something you know people have worked
01:51:25like at nights and done it there is no
01:51:27clock
01:51:27uh there is no watch there is no time
01:51:29what's time what is time is an
01:51:31artificial concept no yeah 24 hours was
01:51:34not God given sun rises sunsets you
01:51:36could have divided into 48 hours in a
01:51:38day you decide man decided to create a
01:51:4112 hour cycle yeah so yeah I have two
01:51:43hours in a day what no no you have a
01:51:45certain time
01:51:46you choose not to do that so why do you
01:51:48say you have two hours you could I may
01:51:50as well say just 20 hours time is an
01:51:51artificial concept yeah okay so
01:51:55that's why when they say
01:51:56[Music]
01:51:57um
01:52:03have you gone out have you really made
01:52:05the effort so the founder has to change
01:52:07it in his mind saying what is ambition
01:52:08second is you know I have the ambition
01:52:11am I putting the hard work okay there's
01:52:14a famous thing in the um
01:52:20when the Sun rises in the African prayer
01:52:22you know the cheetah and the gazelle
01:52:25both of them have to get up in the
01:52:27morning and start running
01:52:32gazelle knows that if the gazelle does
01:52:34not run the cheetah will eat it
01:52:38cheetah knows if you don't get up and
01:52:39run you want to stay hungry and die so
01:52:42whatever happens you have to get up and
01:52:44run that is not an excuse so you have to
01:52:46put in the work you to reach out find
01:52:48the founder you know the right Talent
01:52:50work with them and see what it is if you
01:52:53fail then you can discuss nobody if you
01:52:55have never tried
01:52:56then how can you say ambition so
01:53:03you know this is again I we started with
01:53:05the socratic thing so I'll go back to uh
01:53:07so one young person maybe 2500 years
01:53:09back went to Socrates and said Socrates
01:53:12you know what is the secret of I want to
01:53:15really be successful teach me success I
01:53:17want success yeah
01:53:22and you know I want to be successful
01:53:24what do I need to do I want to be
01:53:25successful like I want to find a startup
01:53:26I want to scale my startup what do I do
01:53:28I said relax relax I will teach you the
01:53:31secret of success
01:53:32when he was looking around let's see the
01:53:34scenery suddenly soccer is caught him
01:53:35from behind and put his head in the
01:53:37water
01:53:38because gasping gasping gasping one
01:53:40minute one and a half minutes two
01:53:42minutes
01:53:42suddenly he
01:53:45yeah so what do you want
01:53:47the air you want successor you want air
01:53:50like air air success right now I
01:53:53air I want air this is the time you will
01:53:55want success or you want something as
01:53:58much as you wanted that air that is the
01:54:00time you'll be successful yeah that's
01:54:01the secret of success so he explained it
01:54:04to me in a very poignant manner so if
01:54:06you are saying I don't want to disturb
01:54:09myself I don't want to get rejected big
01:54:11thing no I'm making you an offer you
01:54:13reject me second by 10 20 people I don't
01:54:15want to be rejected
01:54:17you will be rejected 40 times yeah yeah
01:54:20so it goes back to the resilience
01:54:23because this is a quote I've also heard
01:54:25but I heard it from some other guy and
01:54:26the same thing about the Socrates it's
01:54:29like when you want to succeed as bad as
01:54:32you want to breathe that's when you get
01:54:33successful see JK Rowling was rejected
01:54:3629 times for her first Harry Potter
01:54:4029 times rejection like nine times
01:54:43rejection boss you will go into massive
01:54:46depression and you will uh therapy and
01:54:48so on 29 times for a single mother
01:54:51trying to make ends meet in a London one
01:54:54room studio flat for her daughter
01:54:5829 times creating the world's largest
01:55:02book franchise most successful 25
01:55:05billion dollars plus book
01:55:07yeah but think of it not 29 publishers
01:55:12they were like most successful
01:55:13publishers
01:55:16so
01:55:20so many of those startups or so many
01:55:24writers will never have their stories
01:55:25told because they just didn't want
01:55:27success that desperately
01:55:29very interesting very it's it sounds
01:55:32very cliche but that's the core of
01:55:34everything
01:55:35it's it is the core of everything it is
01:55:37the core of like do you want it bad
01:55:40enough or no yeah okay it's it's let's
01:55:43end the loop of how we started okay and
01:55:45you were explaining about the
01:55:47agriculture you were explaining about
01:55:50role of UPL and you were explaining
01:55:52about how you know the one of the
01:55:55biggest
01:55:56biggest mismanagement and happenings
01:55:59happen in the agriculture world right
01:56:01where
01:56:02because we there's that we don't have a
01:56:06problem of food we have a problem of
01:56:07food management we have a problem of and
01:56:09because of food management we have
01:56:11problem of farmers management that
01:56:13because we have Farmers management we
01:56:14have problem of storage because of
01:56:16storage and goods we have a problem of
01:56:18global health and climate climate change
01:56:20right you're explaining me all of this
01:56:22go deeper on that tell me like what
01:56:23exactly you meant with that Loop so what
01:56:25I meant was say agriculture is so
01:56:27critical because food is critical none
01:56:29of us can survive next to air and water
01:56:31okay you need food okay and uh who grows
01:56:36the food the farmers grow the food now
01:56:37think about a life of a small farmer
01:56:39like in India most Farmers have one and
01:56:41half acres Brazil my Farmer will have 4
01:56:44000 Acres small farmer okay that's like
01:56:46the scale of difference
01:56:47but all of them many problems are
01:56:49exactly the same like
01:56:51you know you have counterfeit products
01:56:53being sold to Farmers farmer has to buy
01:56:56stuff up front
01:57:02then you will repay pay the guy he'll
01:57:04repay the money lender repay the bank
01:57:06then have some stuff left for him so 30
01:57:09to 40 percent of the farmer's Network
01:57:11goes is tied up and then rainfall can
01:57:13happen or no rain can happen
01:57:16insects can come and eat it mice can
01:57:18combinate it but when he goes to the
01:57:21Mandi to sell the Mandi guy May squeeze
01:57:23him because there is too much produce
01:57:24onions work phenomenal
01:57:27what will you do so he's a vulnerable
01:57:30and I think that's why you know we
01:57:33should not forget that till 1700 no wars
01:57:35were fought our food that time there was
01:57:38food scarcity today we have food
01:57:39mismanagement that's why we need all of
01:57:42these chains to become like really go
01:57:45deep in this but also agriculture
01:57:47generates 25 of the greenhouse gases
01:57:49globally so if we do not agriculture
01:57:55we have solved a problem on the EV side
01:57:57we have solved a problem under renewable
01:57:59screen energy side green power solar
01:58:01power but 25 percent of the GSG gases
01:58:04are agriculture till we solve
01:58:06agriculture's problem till we solve the
01:58:07farmer's problem climate change so what
01:58:10is given is we need to keep feeding 8
01:58:12billion people what is very clear is
01:58:14climate change and agriculture will give
01:58:16out those gases how do we help farmers
01:58:18to do carbon sequestration for example
01:58:19how do we reward the farmers for doing
01:58:22the right practices we cannot increase
01:58:24the price of food was food inflation
01:58:26food
01:58:27price
01:58:31increase governments get toppled over it
01:58:34it's a front page issue so you cannot
01:58:36Inc consumer cannot pay more
01:58:39farmer needs more income Planet needs
01:58:42lesser greenhouse gases how do you solve
01:58:45that triangle to me that is a problem
01:58:46that UPL is willing to solving which is
01:58:50problem which I am focusing a lot of my
01:58:52time to see how can you solve how can
01:58:54you have carbon credits being generated
01:58:56how can you make sure that the full
01:58:58value chain the storage is being managed
01:59:01you're using technology fall of it and
01:59:02you have so many startups doing
01:59:04phenomenal stuff around the world where
01:59:06you are getting information aggregating
01:59:08it and delivering it so something I
01:59:11really feel about it the problem of
01:59:12Agriculture is a problem which we've
01:59:15tried to brush away saying with a farmer
01:59:18we are the ones eating food they are not
01:59:20doing it uh you know to earn just income
01:59:23they're doing it because they have to
01:59:24feed us
01:59:26nobody is giving us nobody's if you're
01:59:29not saying air by earnings
01:59:31God has given us our Nature has given us
01:59:34that we are not fighting for air water
01:59:37broadly we are okay but food tough
01:59:40is there any anything which we could do
01:59:42as a common person as an individual
01:59:44which
01:59:45where we are not directly linked to the
01:59:48food chain is there anything we could do
01:59:50to make it better two things first never
01:59:52waste food on your plate please I think
01:59:55whatever food you take please don't
01:59:57waste it because the amount of it has so
01:59:59many people have worked hard in very
02:00:01high temperatures and worse conditions
02:00:04to put the food on your plate at least
02:00:05you can don't waste food and second
02:00:07whenever you see a farmer you can see
02:00:10them in different places okay please uh
02:00:13acknowledge the unsung heroes very
02:00:15interesting this is a deep conversation
02:00:17I really loved what we talked about and
02:00:19like so many topics you know in fact
02:00:21I thought that I'll I'll discuss a lot
02:00:24of startups with you I thought like I'll
02:00:26discuss fintech I'll discuss edtech and
02:00:29then I'll discuss so many things now
02:00:31there are so many topics I want to talk
02:00:32about it's it's in insane when are you
02:00:35free next time because we definitely
02:00:37need to do part two I told you this is
02:00:40one of the Hidden gems of India and I'm
02:00:43sure you must have realized it by now
02:00:46because I see conversations
02:00:53and the kind of information and the
02:00:56perspective which they give you about
02:00:58businesses across domains is invaluable
02:01:01and you know what's invaluable for me is
02:01:05your engagement your like your comment
02:01:08your share your subscribe everything is
02:01:11super super valuable for me so make sure
02:01:13that you do all of it and just share
02:01:16this episode with one person
02:01:18who can be benefited from this episode
02:01:21the most
02:01:22idea they take you from 0 to 10 or maybe
02:01:2610 200 or 100 to 1000 or million
02:01:29one idea can actually change your life
02:01:32it can be spark to your billion dollar
02:01:35Journey as well so please share this
02:01:38with your friends your family members
02:01:40your strangers in fact your enemies as
02:01:42well let's help this country grow
02:01:44together by sharing the right
02:01:46information the right education and the
02:01:49right perspective with the people who
02:01:51have the power to change the nation
02:01:53[Music]
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